What's the deal with Kayle and Morgana? || update design & lore discussion
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Join the channel discord: / discord (10 uses only)
---
Patreon: / castercomix
Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/TBSkyen
Vlog channel: / @tbskyenirl
Twitter: / tbskyen
-----
NECRIT - The Complete Story of Kayle and Morgana: • Complete Story of Kayl...
Kayle and Morgana have finally received their update - which became a Bit Of A Deal in the community as a lot of people feel like especially Kayle wasn't a great design and needs some more work.
Well. I'm here to talk a bit about what the re-designs do RIGHT... and then spend the majority of the video talking about what they do wrong, because HOO BOY there's a lot of non-optimal design decisions going on in here. - Zábava
Free trial for 5 bucks!
Use the offer code "OFFER CODE" for a free offer code
also he mentioned "wards"... what are those?
My brain hurts
I think the thing that makes Necrit’s comment so funny to me is that I could hear his voice in my head saying “Free trial for 5 bucks!” and hearing that in my head just made me giggle.
There's a brilliantly simple solution to Kayle's helmet that even comes with an explanation: keep it, and as she ascends, have the light of her newly-acquired divinity cast her face in shadow. Blank the inside of the helmet when the reaches true "seraph" status.
Mondatta or have light shines through it without being able to see her face anymore
I can already hear TB Skyen ranting about Kayle's new design
yep
The first time I saw the Kayle rework, I immediately said "Oh boi, TBSkyen will be mad"
yep, I did so too, although I disagree in making Morgana fat. Because, while, lorewise, she'd like to embrace her human side, she isn't anymore, so I don't think she can get fat even if she wanted to
Lmao same. Normally I wouldn't care but after so many TB Skyen vids I started looking at designs more in others art as well as mine, so the moment I saw Kayle with BASICALLY NO ARMOR I was like "this designs sucks and I can't wait for TB Skyen to say the same".
The Kayle design rightly deserves everything TBSkyen pointed out. While the Morgana one does miss the point, it's mostly "Meh, it's the same design updated, a missed opportunity" the Kayle one removed everything that made the original good and mostly added things that made it worse. It just says "OMG BOIZ! It's da ANGEL".
Haha me too! I kept refreshing my browser looking for a vid from him! (I forgot it'd take him a couple of days to get it up. :P )
@@CRSB00 why wouldnt aspects/gods/deities/angels/whatever be able to be fat xD what the heck
In conclusion - new kayle is trying way too hard to be dawnbringer Riven
And God-King Garen in idealism lol
@@user-pr1dh2bw6k the dawnbringer riven design being so skimpy and barely armored makes sense tho and kayle doesn't. Riven isn't some heavy tank or smthn, she is a VERY MOBILE champion that is rather squishy whereas kayle is supposed to be disembodied and faceless justice and Kayle ain't mobile at all
I really wished they keept her old hair style and colour .
Yikes. Now that you said that.
@@andrewsigler7437 Yea she definitely kinda had that God-King Complex. Reflected it more in her legendary skin but nonetheless. If only she had the armor to fit the role. 🤔
Concidering that morgana lives in demacia her aestetic dosen't really fit in with the demacian nobility. If she were to attend a nobel gathering in demacia she would stand out like a sore thumb. And we all know how much demacia hates people who are different. She also looks like she is wearing goth facion which is concidered to be altanative. So she does stand in oppoisition to demacia and by extention to kayle.
I agree that her dress looks very fancy but I kind of like that. The dress serves to make her look powerfull and proud. (Something that old morgana lacked) Even if Morgana is trying to get rid of her devinity she does need to be powerful and proud to be able to stand agains kayle. If morgana was walking around in peasent clothing you wouldn't really believe her if she told you she was determined to stop an arcangel all on her own. (Remember that morgana doesn't have her half of the blade anymore? She has to rely on her own power to defeat her sister.)
You just turned my appreciation for this new design up to an 11!
I'd honestly be fine if they kept that dress anyway since it's a massive upgrade from the old purple tent dress and bra whatever that is.
Am i the only one who is botherd how morgana's wings look like in skins? I am soo mad that now they look like part of dresses, and the BEWITCHING MORGANA :O NO BABY WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU :'^O
@@fly5346 yes. They definitely need to change the design of her wings on each of her skins.
Yah but she still needs to look human, not artistocratic
One of the things you did not talk about was how nothing about Morgana's design suggests compassion or mercy in the slightest, despite that being her core character driver. She certainly seems rebellious, which could work as the split between the sisters: uphold our mother's legacy vs forge my own path; that is a less unique conflict between them(is that not kind of their old lore), but it would be more strongly communicated. It also would not require a mechanical rework of Morgana, since nothing in that trailer reads as compassionate; I do not play LoL, so I may be mistaken, but she seems to chain people, despite rejecting rigid law
The whole chain thing is sooooooo weird now. If shes supposed to be all compassionate why is her main weapon a chain and her main gameplay centered around locking down opponents. Shes wack.
Locking people down with her stun was one of her abilities before rework. Riot didn't want to change her gameplay because people liked it and she was a good character when it comes to that.
right? I didnt read the lore update at first and just looked at morganas design, which made me think she was still just the fallen angel, the sister that had gone rogue. She almost looks evil, with the colour scheme and the nails and stuff. I really dont see how she's supposed to be the embodiment of mercy/compassion
It kind of a far fetch, but the "locking people down" could be associated with the principle of prison: a more humane Justice path compared to death sentences.
However, that's in conflict with the rebellion part of the character. Also, I feel that if the sisters traded gameplay if would fit much better. Kayle's flaming attacks are passionate, she has a heal and a a shield in her kit, which ties her to compassion. And the locking aspect fits rigid justice a lot more.
In defense of Morgana,While I agree that she doesn't need to be so skinny here, and would read better if she was a bit thicker, I think they nailed the aesthetic. Though she walks like a mortal she is still divine, and no amount of extra belts will help that. Adding that type of stuff would make her too busy and harder to read imo. Morgana has always had the Goth girl aesthetic and it's central to her character design. As for the aristocracy thing, while essentially being a rebel, people in power from demacia don't dress like that. Sure if you looked at real societies the only people that could have afforded a dark purple dress like that would be the wealthiest of the wealthy but this is pure fantasy. Morgana has been a staple of the game since its been released and they are right in not changing her too much, and her story they gave her is not so far fetched that it can't go along with her outfit. Note that they actually toned down her sex appeal while making her more attractive. No more ass cleavage. no more weird bra that somehow works like a corset. Now a beautiful dress and a corset that practically gives the amount of support we've come to expect her breasts should have. TBH though I've never been a huge fan of Morgana OR this look but others are.
As for Kayle.. It looks like they didn't try very hard at all. The biggest thing is the helmet. I know they wanted to show her face enough to where you could tell they were twins. But that's what the in game interactions already do. And that information is all over the place. People that play Kayle sight the helmet and her being faceless as one of the coolest things about her. So now she wears a helmet that shows her face? And she takes it off at the end of the battle before she smites the entire team, their children and their children's children?
Buuuuut, great video nonetheless. Love the sponsorships.
Fantasy Armor goes hand in hand with suspension of disbelief.
Morgana should be like a huggable mother figure who was a boss ass punk lady in her youth. The more I think about it, Morgana should be a cool mom figure who feeds the poor. She should have a big warm cloak and round, if not dumpy figure. Her theory is that she's compassionate and emotional, so why isn't she evoking the "mother who knows what her children are doing and keeps them in line while she does her daily routine" feeling in the slightest? If you want her to mean "compassion" then she should evoke the imagery of the most compassionate people in our social imagery: Mothers.
I would love that version of Morgana.
Or it they wanted to give her the "opposite of Kayle" look they should give her dress some tears and frayed ends to show that she won't submit to being a higher class celestial being.
That's a much better character concept. Maybe make it canon she's famous for taking in orphans and runs whatever the equivalent of an after-school program for wayward youth is. She wanders the rough parts of the city breaking up fights, knocking some sense into young hooligans before they can ruin their lives. She's the one you can turn to no matter what sort of trouble you're in. She's helped thieves and murderers turn their lives around. She doesn't necessarily need a round or dumpy figure (she is still half-Divine after all) but her clothing should be like your wacky Fun Aunt, slightly faded and tattered, and old boots worn soft by her habit of walking everywhere. She ties back her hair to keep it out of the way and doesn't bother with makeup. She has many dogs.
She has one set of armor left from her Divine Warrior days that she keeps only in case of emergencies. Which those who know her best know means... for when her sister comes back. A day those who love her hope never comes.
Men, thats sounds like the desin of kayle, she heals, protects and with the time she gets out of her shell to become a flaming star to punish the evil with rage (basically she works with attack speed, someome cold and without any emotion would end with a hit and stay cold as ice)
We need a Momgana.
I'm sadly a broke Design student, but I hope that watching and admiring your videos is enough to help you! ;-; I'm always looking for your Analysis videos!
I'm a little iffy on Morgana but I was a one-trick pony of her and is still one of my mains.
Kayle felt like a downgrade. Like she was the armored badass chick like Samus from & Hilde from Soul Calibur
Imagine being a Galio one trick and lover before the rework.
I use to play old Gallo he was so fucking tanky lol
Thank you so much for mentioning Hilde - I've been saying for so long that I want a female character like her in League, and old Kayle was the closest we had. Not any more it seems :c
@@galio2012 My mains a while back were evelynn and yorick and i feel the pain.
Yeah on the tb discord I kept saying that kayle was essentially leagues samus, and it's like they redesigned samus to have her base armor be her zero suit with a helmet on her head
oof i love your videos so much
Kayle had such potential, i always thought of her Design as "the last bastion" a woman that riot couldn't sexualize because she diddnt show her body. they took that away from her and turned her into another bodysuit babe.
atleast we we still have kalista,illaoi and kindred
trying to make twins in a game where every female has the same 3D model and face is very difficult lol
(K)ayle - (M)ihira [mother]
(M)organa - (K)ilam [father]
:3
One aside for your criticism of kayle's character design. In the context of Christianity, the face of a divine creature is supposed to be terrifying. In specific, seeing the face of God is something that a mortal can not handle. So seeing as kayle leans heavily on Christianity for her design, I feel like the removing of the helmet makes sense. It also helps with the gameplay aspect because removing the armor is like unleashing her power in a way. She cannot be contained by armor is the idea there. Overall, I think riot's design for the character is disappointing because they have to make the armor less like plate armor and lighter so it properly communicates her in-game playstyle, and hence they sacrifice her character design as an individual character in the context of her lore. The annoying part for me is at the moment, I do not have a simple solution that satisfies both the gameplay and the lore, and that makes her lackluster character design even more frustrating for me. If anyone has any ideas as to how they would address this issue, please let me know because this is driving me crazy.
That would be cool with the whole face of divine creatures being terrifying, but then riot should have made her terrifying. She just looks like a pretty white angel girl with glowing eyes. Also they could deal with the whole upgrade thing differently to fix the issue. She could just get stronger and have more armor and wings as she levels up. The idea that she doesnt need armor would be cool but it doesnt really compliment her character of rigidness. Plus I think the idea of her not wearing armor and less clothes goes against the whole societal rules she stands for.
Maybe her face could shine in a burning light.
Also, heavy armor probably doesn't matter for a celestial being. She even uses a 2 handed sword with one hand.
To me that Christian argument just shows that she should put her helmet on at later levels. Like the whole story with Moses when he reached a point where he had to wear a veil because the Israelites couldn't look at his face anymore. More generally, I think that removing her helmet makes her appear more relatable and less alien even without emotions. This is exactly the opposite of the natural flow of Riot's story.
Riot take notes
Edit:Basically add some illoai into kayle and some jinx in morgana
Pretty much my thoughts with the direction they could have taken their designs, which is sad because Illoai and Jinx aren't exactly disliked (though Illoai doesn't get much attention). Riot is falling back into old habits with these designs.
Konstantin Lozankoski yes
Good Video TB i am impressed that you haven't mentioned Kai'sa while talking about Kayle
I didn't want the video to be five hours long lol
@@TBSkyen i would have no problem hearing you rant about character designs for 5 hours. 😊😊
Maybe make morgana very skinny, like the couldn't eat enough. Probably because more than half of the time she is in the shadows and being out of any food, or maybe eating is a routine and she hates routine
That'd also make sense since she spends time in Demacia - more specifically the Petricite forest, where the environment would be sapping away her magic which is probably linked to her life force. Binding her wings also can't be very healthy for her either.
Not sure if that'd work since we don't know if Aspects need basic human sustenance
I would 1000% love this Morgana rework.
But she bakes....
I very much agree with most of your assessments, TB, though the 'fat Morgana' idea, I kind of did not follow.
Wouldn't that just reinforce the whole high class / rich person sort of feel, rather than her appreciation for the lowliest peasants and ordinary citizens? At least, I associate fat with being well off and comfortable from a financial perspective.
Not to be crass, but... you've never seen a fat person who wasn't wealthy?
@@TBSkyen Mayhaps, though I still do not see the whole hedonism angle.
@@tau2213 I mean, it doesn't need to be obese. Just not the "hot lady with tiny waist" that riot does in every female champ. You know, maybe make her breast smaller, her waist a little wider, more like a normal person. It doesn't need to be gragas in a dress, we will take the "woman who is not constantly going to the gym and eating almost anything" body
@@TBSkyen This is true, but at least for me, the medieval-ish setting of LoL would logically adopt the same principles of food distribution as a medieval-ish setting. And in medieval days, usually the poor were the thin ones - the ball could roll either way, I suppose.
@@TBSkyen In medieval type settings at least being fat was a sign of wealth generally due to being able to afford to eat beyond what was actually required
I mean, some characters show the lack of emotions not just with a helmet and a faceless character, as you said, human brain look for eyes, but when you see the eyes of kayke full form, it does not have pupils, empty and when you do this to the thing that give us empathy with someone, cause the charqcter to be distant, but i do think her desing is weak, just offering some counter argument
lucketmi1 but when you’re playing in game you can’t see such minimal details. Yup. So it’s a bad idea to throw away the helmet.
The design you want for Morgana instantly makes me think back to The Morrigan's design in smite.
Warning: small essay ahead.
The thing that puzzles me most about the new Morgana is that, according to her lore, she is supposed to be this caring, compassionate individual, yet she still comes across as a vengeful, spiteful sorceress. The chains, the dark magic, the rebellious attitude - it bears a lot more resemblance to someone like Syndra than, say, someone like Soraka. If they wanted to make her seem more human and compassionate, they should really tone down the whole "fallen angel" aspect of her design.
Alternatively, they could just drop the whole "compassionate"-schtick (because, honestly, it's not very believable) and just lean into her darker design. Just like Kayle embraces law and order above all, have Morgana embrace anarchy and chaos. Make her a personification of Bilgewater, where there are no rules and everyone is free to do as they please, for better or worse.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the angle that Riot has chosen to take with this rework, in terms of Kayle and Morgana's duality, that is. It feels like they're trying to be creative and cram some kind of "don't judge a book by its cover" moral down our throats, where Kayle: the white knight in shining armour is actually the bad guy and Morgana: the ragged, downtrodden emo is the good guy.
Because the truth is: neither extreme is correct. Law and order IS important and necessary if we are to live in a civilised society, but if those laws become oppressive, it becomes a problem. Likewise, it is good to have compassion and want to help people in need, but even compassion can be misguided and the road to hell, as they say, is paved with good intentions. If Riot truly wanted to showcase that balance - like Ying and Yang - they are doing it wrong, because right now they're making Kayle out to be the oppressor and Morgana to be the liberator.
Now that's a perspective I would have loved to be than what we got. A balance where both are good but both have weaknesses. While I like the idea of "don't judge a book by its cover" with the holy but oppressive Kayle and the dark but compassionate Morgana, it would be better if they are excessive ends of the justice scale, where one is rigid but dutiful while the other is compassionate but are proned to inaction. Both have merits and both have drawbacks.
Well you don't see it a lot in her lore, Morgana believes empathy comes from suffering. As seen in her story she still punishes those who she feels are guilty and are not repentant, making them feel the pain they've caused others to feel. So her abilities with chaining people down and making them hurt are still tied into her lore, it's just not what most people focus on for her character.
To be honest the silver Kayle skin (the splash art more so than the in-game model) seems to me like a straight improvement when it comes to the "remorseless embodiment of justice" vibe. The more unorthodox shape of the helmet makes her seem less human while her armor seems to be made out of stone - something incredibly inflexible and heavy, normally impractical for mere humans. Also the stone makes her seem more like a statue, something that humans would covet as a ideal, reinforcing the idea that she has forsaken her humanity in favor of representing justice itself.
That's pretty much exactly what i thought when seeing the splash. Basic kayle should be more like that, hopefully a lot of her skins are actually fixing her
Omg I love this channel it reads my mind and your comment does that too.
I just said this, but in significantly fewer words. So, yeah, this. This is good.
Kayle's old base splash art is one of the most gorgeous in league of legends. You just look at it and you understand her character immediately, the intricate fiery golden armor and the dark recesses of the slits in her helmet; she's the embodiment of a pillar of flame sent down from the heavens to judge the unrighteous without a sense of personal emotion or conflict. When I first saw the rework Kayle made me so angry but I couldn't put my finger on most of it and that's why I love your videos, it's like the points you make are hiding in my subconscious but it just comes out as some weird feeling of dislike but then you give the words to join it all together and have it make sense.
Tb Skyen about Kayle removing her helmet I disagree.
In my opinion the helmet is almost a "shame" concealment. When she has it actually feels emotions and has the need to hide her face so not to reveal them. As a full evolved , emotionless Aspect she does not feel so she has no need to cover her face.
Also a really hard thing to spot up to the point of her removing her helmet is her eyes are blue. After that transformation they almost white out to the point her iris is almost invisible.
Nice catch, I hadn't thought of that. Makes the helmet loss a little more bearable lol
Wow, the fact that you can read another perspective of the meaning of the helmet is really fantastic. I couldn't thought that
Am I the only one that never understood exactly why the squishy character who flies had super bulky armor? That never made any sense to me. I do wish the armor is a bit bulkier but a more lightweight plate made so much more sense than what she had. I like her sleek design because it makes sense for a person who's fast, flying with weaving in and out of battle. Just imagine the chafing for her wings, geez.
Edit: I have to say I disagree with a lot of the video after finishing it. I think it's an interesting observance that what you dislike about Kayle's armor (the spike in the middle) prevents her from bending over makes for a clever suggestion of her being completely unbending. She literally can't do it, makes for a funny gag for me, though I see why it's impractical. However, there are a few problems I personally have with your argument. The new lore says Kayle is obsessed with ascending to become an aspect of justice, a perfect symbol for it. She doesn't want to be a crusader serving the cause as a nameless soldier, she wants to become a champion, a paragon/embodiment with disciples. It's clear that Kayle doesn't want to bury her identity as much as to remake her identity. The flares make a lot of sense to me because of that. Also on the whole idea of the helmet, I see it as her moving beyond the need to mask herself. Why would she need a helmet with which to hide her face if she's truly left behind emotions, insecurity, and worry? She no longer has vulnerability or emotion when she's become justice itself.
Also, helmets obscure vision. It trades visibility for the protection of one's eyes. When she is the powerful aspect of justice, Kayle no longer needs protection or to hide her "humanity". There is no reason to obscure her vision for the sake of suppressing a human identity that no longer even exists. In fact, I think it empowers her because it shows the all seeing nature of her ceaseless, dispassionate justice. Why would she care about hiding her face when image no longer matters? Practicality is indeed what matters and the practical thing to do for a being who doesn't need head protection or hiding is to just take it off so she can see better.
I also prefer to read Morgana's "hiding in the shadows" not as literally. If she cared to help criminals and those who need it, then it would make more sense for her to be among the nobles, for her to become a patron for those who are condemned. If so, why would she not don the wears of a noble? You mention hedonism but wouldn't hedonists wear what Morgana's wearing, the soft and comfortable fur that makes her seem indulgent in herself and mortal beauty? Also with their wings, it's far easier for Morgana to wear what she wears versus what Kayle has to strap on. You mention that they aren't exact opposites and bring up how the sisters are more yin and yang than anything. Wouldn't it make sense that their design is indeed closer? They are twins, they are two forces of seeming opposites that complement each other.
Damn bro, spitting facts.
Honestly I think their designs work. Kayle is trying her hardest to get rid of her human/mortal side so she dresses as what everyone would imagine a God of Justice to dress like with the gold/white and huge armor. But there is a hint of human/mortal in her outfit with the bodysuit so it implies that no matter how hard she tries to reject her mortality and become a pure God, she'll always be part humam. Morgana, on the other hand, is trying to embrace her mortality fully and get rid of her god side completely. Her outfit takes lots of inspiration from the mortal world with a simple dress and jewelry because that's the world she wants to be apart of; but her outfit looks higher class and more expensive to imply that no matter how hard she tries to get rid of her god side, it'll always be apart of her.
Idk, that's just my interpretation
This was a great video! Your videos have taught me so much about story writing and character design, so thanks a ton. Your thorough discussions are complimented by your good editing and your charming side-bits, like the fake advertisements and the “what-will-happen-if-you-dislike” joke. Can’t wait to see what you have in store for the future!
of all their updates this the only one i really disliked and i never cared about kayle but it boogles my mind how they could do Kayles concept so wrong. Even before looking at the body suit and spandex i kept thinking "why i can see her face? why i can see her face?why? wasnt her whole thing to be dehumanize justice?
.oh so she loses her helment now? then maybe her new lore isnt about that.....ITS EXCATLY ABOUT THAT! SO WHY I CAN SEE HER FACE?!!"
I believe 2 or 3 of her old skins allowed you to see her face.
moist mage skins don’t really count tho, they are different versions of the character
moist mage but skins aren’t exactly canon to the base lore so it’s fine
There's literally a skin called "Unmasked Kayle". (That is getting changed to transcended Kayle for the rework)
@@Mastattak "moist mage skins"
For the "needlessly decorative" of Kayle, I think that she'd like to lie to herself that she's "holy," "rightfulness" and stuff. What's the better way to lie than making yourself looks like one?
For Morgana's ornaments, I think Riot tried to make her associate with Targon by giving her those stuff. But yeah..she's still far from "opposite" of Kayle.
Oh and about "having one fat lady wouldn't kill anyone." I think that's true, but I believe that if they choose to make Morgana fat, MANY old players will be really angry about that. But it'd be a great idea if there will be a chubby lady for a new champion. Probably a tank? (As people associate big = tank.)
"A fat lady wouldn't kill anyone" you right that's why she would be a support.
Yea, I’m all for inclusiveness, but randomly making a character fat would not work very well imo. Ok, it would not be random, but completely changing the physicality of her would not work (always imo).
Heck, I would LOVE a fat lady in LoL, I adore Illaoi and her massive muscle body, just... not my sweet Morgana
Illaoi is pretty thicc
As a character design, it would work better. And after all, that's what we're arguing here.
yup a chubby witchy or brawly kinda champ would be fun, but I don't mind morgana being like this since im used to her like this.
Alright, I agree with your points on Kayle, however, I would like to offer a different point of view. Kayle is shedding her armor, which might be making a statement of her shedding her mortal fears and mortality. She is wearing less armor because she is trying to show that she is beyond mortality and its fears of death. I'm not trying to defend her design, just offering a different point of view that provides decent reasoning as to why she takes armor off. Armor was created by mortals to try and protect themselves from death, so it could make sense that she is wearing less armor to separate her from mortal warriors who need to protect their mortality. Just a thought, you probably won't even read this anyway. Regardless, have a good day, I love your content.
6:31 I disagree-morgana actually sort of crafted her own identity by interacting with outcasts. While the spark of that may have been the death of her father, I think she turned it into something much more than “daddy issues.” As for kayle though… yeah. dead on.
love the video you should be hired by riot to come in and give feedback since they can't do it themselves. what happened to riot in this project idk
An idea for Kayles unmasking thing(or rather a smaller edit) could be, that when she unmaskes herself she reveals there to be no face at all, to kinda show that there isn't any humanity left even under the helmet.
Might be grasping for a simple solution, but just wanted to contribute one idea.
Love the "sponsors" !!!
I think a lot of Kayle's armor was made to make her look bigger at a glance (wide/tall shoulder and hip plates) while still being light for fast movement, battle maneuvers, and possibly for flight. I guess the chest spike is bad but I kind of think it's the drawing making it appear to lay flat on the stomach while in that pose. I believe it would be looser and probably slightly curved away from the stomach. But I also think it could be a little more practical. Now the side stomach plates are where I feel the way the actual armor would fit versus how the model had to be made differ those plates would probably be made to shift when she turned a certain way. I think that movement would also make them flare out and make those "spikes" not hit the stomach. Also both spike would probably be rounded and thickened so they wouldn't be sharp enough to even Peirce the fabric. Just some notes...
P.s. the spandex could imply practicality or , because she shaped the ideals of Demacia, this decision is her own and this version of Justice is for herself. In a way her original view was very selfish and self serving. Also gymnast, ballerina's, and figure skaters are very tough on themselves and others. When they teach others they are almost perfectionist when it comes to form and appearance. They are definitely not just "circus acts".
Her expression was stern and unchanging... She was also becoming more comfortable with her beliefs I mean not everything is by the book symbolism.
love your insight!! this is my first video from you and im looking forward to bingewatching ur previous videos!
Maybe they didn't change Morgana that much, because she is somehow a "gothic bride". Maybe they thought more about this, or about something like Mortisha from the Adams Family, or also Elvira, but without trying to just copy.
Kayle and Morgana seem less like Yin and Yan, and more like Law and Chaos (in the D&D sense, at least)-complementary, in the sense that you can't have a good world without both, but still in opposition. It's definitely a welcome step away from the LG/CE dynamic Light and Dark usually get.
I agree that pinning their motivations to their parents is kinda dull (though at least it's a mixture of mommy _and_ daddy issues, instead of just daddy issues). What I would have liked is if Kayle saw the harm caused by anarchy and rules that can bend to the whims of the cruel, while Morgana saw the harm caused by tyranny and rules that were built to the specifications of the cruel.
I'd love a short story where young Kayle and Morgana saw the same atrocity but viewed through their own lenses; e.g, the fantasy equivalent of the Tom Robinson case from _TKaM_ happens, Kayle blames the ambiguity of laws, Morgana blames the empowerment of the discriminatory judges &c. (Or probably something better that they didn't think of in a minute and summarize in half a sentence.)
Talking about the _realism_ of armor isn't worth much beyond trivia, but _verisimilitudity_ is another matter entirely. Poppy's armor feels like it could be real, even though it's being worn by a Smurf with a hammer twice as big as she is. Mordekaiser's does _not_ feel real; it feels like something Skeletor would reject for being too cartoony. Both of these work in the context of their characters; Poppy is supposed to look practical, so she gets practical-looking armor, but Mordekaiser is supposed to look like a caricature of a cartoon villain, so he gets hilariously impractical armor. But not all non-verisimilitudinous armor is made equal; dress Mordekaiser in Kayle's armor, and he works about as well as Poppy would in Mordekaiser's.
It's not bad if Kayle's armor looks fantastically impractical, as long as the fantastical elements support Kayle's fantasy. She's supposed to be an inflexible, immovable devotee of law and order, so why is her armor so minimalist? If her armor was impractical the way Overwatch!Reinhardt's is, big and bulky, the fantastical elements would fit her concept. (Maybe make her helmet look less face-like, to reflect her attempted self-depersonalization.) As-is...she looks less like a knight or an angel than a C-list superhero with a chivalry motif.
I'd like to think that Riot's planning to do some kind of serious subversion of expectations. Have Kayle visit Noxus and realize the harm that harsh rules can cause, have Morgana succeed at a revolution only to see the terrors inflicted by the mob. Kayle starts to embrace her humanity (or the gestalt of divine and mortal which comprises her true self), Morgana starts to align herself with the aristocracy. Wouldn't that be neat?
Having moral greyness return when Kayle sees how rules can be evil and Morgana grow into an aristocrat through rebellion would be FANTASTIC. Kayle discards her helmet in atonement of her terrible deeds to seal the deal.
Rito pls
Yeah, I wasn't really stunned by these reworks either.
One thing i do have to say though is that Iron Inquisitor Kayle reflects her character much better now, except for the black+red+gold colour scheme. She even covers up in more and more armor as the game progresses and doesn't remove her helmet (or in this case mask, which arguably also fits better) in the final form. (For reference: czcams.com/video/skDpiqYZI4w/video.html)
The only reason why I'm not outraged as well is that I own the Iron Inquisitor and Aether Wing skins, which have improved design wise imo.
Pretty much all Kayle skins are miles above her classic right now, it's mesmerizing how well they managed to capture the essence of each skin but fucked up completely in her base form.
This, and other skins make her look like a dark souls boss, which I love! Others also don't remove the helmet.
Well, I guess it's an incentive to buy her skins?
Aah I love your videos, TBSkyen!
I will say, having Kayle and Morgana being chosen before their birth rather then their mother is definitely interesting and something I'd prefer but their mother was a huge part of Kayle/Morgana's previous lore so I suspect they wanted to keep her some form of holy figure. However, this only half works when you consider Tear Of The Goddess is supposed to be their mother's tear after seeing her two daughters fight. Now, not only is that lore trivia not cannon but their mother isn't even a goddess anymore. It might have just been better to change this entirely then make it half work but what do know, I'm no game designer.
the bio feel biased toward Morgana side I feel like the story need to show the down side of being too lenient(like morgana saving a criminal that she thought redeemable but in fact isn't) to compensate on how they made kayle seem to harsh and heartless.
This is something that left me really pissed off: they nailed Kayle lore in being the "obsessive and tirannycal ideal of justice", but Morgana is... moderate? She is not against society or justice in itself, nor she wants to forgive every posible crime, but instead she defends a more compassionate and humanistic view of justice focused on reform and reabilitation.
The whole thing about having these two characters is that both represent extremes of and ideology to the point of none of them being good or bad, but if one is a complete murderer zealot while the other is much more rational and humane, how does Riot expect people will not see Kayle as a villain and Morgana as the hero? Even if you personally ally with Kayle, Morgana will always sound like a more understanding and relatable character.
A bit cliche... wouldn't it be more interesting to show Morgana go really harsh on someone commiting a minor crime because she was in a sour mood and/or felt more compassion with the (maybe lying) victim, while Kayle would have heard all sides and given a lawful yet lenient sentence?
I honestly hate how Kayle has been turned into Evil Light and I really hate the OH NOEZ LIGHT IS EVIL trope so fucking much.
I'm disappointed by Kayle's lore so much. She has no redeeming qualities and thus the moral grey conflict is gone
Would a paragraph fix that issue?
Kayle finds out about Morgana's home of redemption because a group of 2 or 3 people are exploiting the safety of the home to keep comitting crimes.
Kayle tries to convince Morgana of this, a tragedy happens due to Morgana being incapable of seeing that she's being taken advantage of, things get heated in the section of the city, Kayle Morgana's original fight ensues.
The awkward Morg kit could then be explained as defensive mechanisms that help both her and her flock to evade capture.
@@no.xivxion4352 Her previous lore was just like that though. Kayle was always the misguided villain.
I love your videos, you are so thoughtful and intentional about everything you say. I love thinking critically, and you really help me appreciate LoL from a very analytical perspective. I also love that you try to be as fair and factual as possible, but at the same time you are very passionate about what you think should and shouldn't be. I'm also really glad that you've moved on from talking about how terrible boob plates are (which was a very common theme in your past videos) and recognize that it's not about what's practical, but what the costume says about the character. That's REALLY interesting and you have a lot of valuable opinions to being to the table. You're awesome!
Love you TB.
7:06
8:02
9:35
10:56
when TB Skyen has a stroke
13:40
Kayle : JUSTICE does not bend !
You cannot read this in a normal voice. You have to read it in a kayle voice. There’s no other option.
So and idea I had for Kayle helmet you mentioned it that instead of her losing her helmet she adds one to distance her humanity and embrace her divinity, but something I would like to add is that on her finale form her helmet cracks and splits open so your can see like some of her face as a way to show herself that she can’t really take away her on humanity
Thank you for summarizing everything i couldnt put into words, as a Kayle player this means a lot to have more voiced opinions on her sub par redesign.
You're sooo right! I love learning from you, as a design student
Was fun watching this premier, I enjoy the point you bring up of Kayle sacrificing her humanity story wise, would've been neat if the in game model continued on that idea.
I think it does though. Her evolutions show her becoming more and more divine has she becomes more powerful. She sheds her "armor" because she no longer needs it and her blue eyes become pure white giving her an incredibly NOT human feeling.
Hey! I'm sure you're really busy with all the stuff you're doing, but I still wanted to say that I'd really appreciate you talking about Taliyah's character design :) Anyway, keep up the informative and entertaining content, was really looking forward to your Analysis on Kayle & Morgana and I'm not disappointed! :D
Hey. Just wanted to thank you for your videos in general, but especially this one, cuz it's video that made install league and then a few months later actually play it.
I find your videos so interesting because everytime i get to think and learn about something new (mostly because i have no idea how anything actually works)and bring me more towards learning about character designs. So, thanks for the good work you put up and in your analysis's(how does one english?).
Hey, thanks. That's very kind of you to say :)
Think you're forgetting that Morgana is also supposed to look like a witch. They wouldnt remove the dress and turn her into a punk that casts some magic. She already kinda has a rebel-ish look, but instead of being a punk, she went emo which kinda fits with her edgy voice lines and her "broken heart" because of Kayle.
Been waiting since the video got release for this
XD the thing with the sponsors is great, the way you edited it in is hilarious
I like this semi-reigned in format. Please make more of this please.
How would you go about it the other way? People (including me) want to play with generic pretty angel / fallen angel ladies. How would you go about constructing their lore to make it fit the character designs; to make them more interesting underneath the generic looking-good-ness?
I’m excited for the changes! The imaginative mix of yin and yang with western angels and devils is refreshing. I’m going to get a Kayle skin because the base one is meh. I already have my two favorite Morg skins. Love the aesthetics and design.
Okay
There is this Cartoon Network show/series named Steven Universe. This show has two characters:
•Yellow Diamond
A law abiding ruler of" Homeworld". She is a character that rejects the concept of emotions and instead, acts with the rules and etiquette.
•Blue Diamond
The complete opposite of Yellow Diamond. She cares more about emotions and has the power of pathokinesis. She is the one who cares more about reason and compassion.
I think, Kayle and Morgana's designs would look better if they took more insipiration from su. Yellow having more sharp and striking shapes and Blue having a rounded and curved shilhouette. Also, I wish Morg wore a cloak or some kind.
just have kayle become an angel, a biblacly accurate angel, a ball of light,eyeballs and wings, with a halo on top of her.
She becomes something removing her humanity entirely, becoming unrecenizable but more powerful.
for morgana she was already something an entity rather than human but choose to morph herself into a motherly bodytype, full of circles,curvy showing that caring nature by symply just witnesing her.
Appreciate your perspective, as always. It really does seem like Kayle's new lore in particular was written for her old character design, but then they changed it because update.
It's quite interesting to see how much people dislike the base skin/lore skins compared to their other skins. Everyone I've spoken to has said they love most of the other skin reworks and hate or don't care about the default designs.
It's probably a lot easier to imagine the character the way the skin speaks to you as there is no story or lore behind them. But yeah the more time I've spent looking at the default skins the more I've started to see all the problems with them, though I can't deny I'm excited to play both of them using all their different skins, especially kayle!
Goodness the dis-armoring of Kayle was really frustrating to behold, I had those same realizations about dispassionate justice and making her more armored. Getting a full on smooth face mask for full "Wrath of the heavens" judgement would have been so good. I didn't realize the Morgana points besides feeling like not much in her design or teasers presented her as providing aid, she feels too aligned with her generic original design still.
Gotta say, quite happy with the way you handled this. You could have went on an emotional rant like on Kai'sa and you'd have all the reasons to do so but instead you took a more chill approach to your arguments which is nice. Great video.
I like the way you've edited this one!
the long awaited video 😍 finally
I love you 😭Always when u talk about Character designs i wanna draw them ;_;
These redesign look really nice, nice blend of new and old elements. Also very intrigued by Kayle's new gameplay update, might even start playing again.
I don't know if this hadn't been truly established yet at the time this video (and Kayle and Morgana's rework) but I greatly enjoy that, in various short stories set in Demacia, characters will subtly reference them as the Winged Protectors or whatnot which is a fun little reference for those that read into that
and yes, i know their backstory says that Demacia does this
I just love that you used a screenshot of my favorite final fantasy game.
Whats the deal with elise? She is a little weird
Elise is perfection ❤
@@elliottkim3919 i kinda like the broodmother/black widow type vibe she's giving, although I know nothing about her lore so idrk if thats fitting.
@@alonsotoon Or maybe they're how she shoots web and swings around New York 😀
Elliott Kim no she is supposed to be a black widow, seductive but deadly. her whole thematic was picked up and kind of done better by eve, even though she focusses more on the bdsm/suffering part of the seduction, whereas elise is more of this empress that uses her beauty to her advantage to actually get something from the people that she needs (like information or loyalty). i think her design portrays that quite well actually.
@@alonsotoon Oh no. Now I CAN'T unsee it.
Those suggested fan art Kayle remodel looks nice!!
You know artist, when they see an original art they tend to make it look better i guess in their own version, but that doesn't mean the original is any less looks better...
Thanks for the video, very awesome.
I would have liked to hear a short version instead of all the text ^^ If I wanna know that I just go to the league site. Im here for your way of telling the story.
I completly agree with you about the storry!! Morgana looks like a puber in 'complaining about sis' phase
Kayle is like the female version of pantheon, but weaker
Ok now i feel the inspiration to make my own redesigns for this characters.
I wish you were into everything cause I'd love to watch a What's the deal.. bout every topic! xd
Love u T B Skyen.
I would love Morg to drag herself more in her animations, expecially in her ghost bride skin...
I think it would be interesting if Morgana looked borderline starved in comparison to Kayle- like she's barely survived, living entirely among the poor and hungry and, also, starving herself of her Divine nature intentionally. Like she's on an indefinite hunger strike.
That too would be interesting! Better than what we have, anyway.
Hi T B Skyen, I'm not at all a character designer nor am I well knowledgable about it, you are the only for of this I really know of. But none the less I had a thought as u were going through their outfits. It seems to me that they're both trying to be something they aren't, kayle being flexible unlike her personality, but I really noticed it in Morgana. Her, as I believe u put it, aristocratic get up is more or less opposing what her ideas are. And another point I have is her chained wings, while I get is bc of her wanting humanity, just comes off as restrictive and more of something kayle might have, seeing as she leaning more towards rigid stay in one line type of justice.
So my thoughts on this, are what if they're showing their more human side in that, they're both resembling the other's ideals as a way to show their longing for each other because they are still sisters.
I don't mean this in the oh they miss each other so they dress each other type of way, I mean it in the as humans (or partially human) they have a need for family as it come biologically, so perhaps they don't know they're doing it bc its a subconscious, primal need.
(im in no way saying hes wrong just putting my opinion out there)
I feel like the nitpick of Kayle is 100% true, her armor is TOO sleek, it's like 0 suit Samus, if she started off in a heavy metal suit like the original Kayle skin then she'd her armor for white targonian robes like a true angel going from mortal who needs protection to a holy God, unafraid of the ravages of war and uncompromising in her pure power I'd be hyped. The decorations on the armor are idiotic. As a KAYLE main I believe that this ironic inflexibility while her armor is soft and flexible would be an amazing duality.
As for Morgana I personally love it, I simply wish that the DRESS was torn and ragged, her makeup smudged and her feathers more disheveled and it would scream "I am a once decadent immortal throwing it all away to walk among the weakest of you". That's just my opinion though
holy fuuuuuck!! how did I not find this channel earlier???
Really loving all of your arguments, some of them I kinda feel a bit... "frustrated"? to agree to? (not sure what other word to use, sry :v)
Like the one about Morgana's gown depicting her visually as more close to the fat cats than an actual rebel aestethic. At the very beginning, I was a bit thinking "Well, it's a fantasy world, we aren't sure how their culture views certain clothes, or the prices of them, or how she might have acquired them, and I personally kinda really do like the sleek new style, the gorgeous colours" and tbh... I kinda like her clothes... :c I rly wished I looked good in something like that x)
But then you mentioned a punk morgana and I was just fucking sold! That'd be amazing!!!! Now they absolutely have to do a punk skin... that I will have to pray it drop in a hextech chest some day... yay...
Kayle tho I have an easier time agreeing to everything... She really does miss the literal whole point of the character... and while it is still an indisputably well made model, with a pretty cool colour scheme, I love the evolution thing too, that's a pretty massive amount of model work and they did pull a pretty neat job.
Nonetheless, the niceties really do kinda stop there x) All I'll say is that I have no hard time whatsoever agreeing with you on her.
God, a beefy flying female knight.
That's some stone butch energy right there.
hahaha! I love it, I had actually written that part about Kayle before completely finishing that part of the argument and I love how I perfectly predicted the Stone butch Kayle!! I hadn't thought of a chubby Morg, ye, that's something I would really have loved! A cute, chubby punk Morg :D that would've been some pretty awesome design :)
Those Kayle edits look gorgeous, such small changes can make the whole picture look different...a real pity nothing's gonna happen :C
First of all.... First.
I agree with your argument in the character designs. Both don't look the part, reflecting their viewpoints. But with that said, that ultimately means, they don't need to look the part . Agreed, the Kayle Visual update makes her look like a power ranger, you need to remember, these two girls were around BEFORE "Demacia" (hope i spelled that right) was a thing. IF anything, Demacia would of taken their colors and culture from both Kayle and Morgana rather then Kayle copying Demacia's colors and culture. In Morgana's case, there isn't much more of a argument i can make. Yea, she has this sexy night dress own and instantly rose in the ranks of LOL best girl, but just because she believes in the people and want to help the people doesn't mean she needs to look like a punk rock teen with bad make up. If anything, her sexy night dress look would sit her in the perfect position to help the people. Just in a sense as we see things today, Rich, High Class, Nobel like people, control the rules and law, right? If a Punk rock girl was in the room she'd be spotted instantly. Best way to bump sholders, and influence the people making the rules, FOR THE PEOPLE would be dressing like that.
Overall, I really liked the vid, and you got a new sub, but in regards to the style of the armor/cloths, i cant really agree on.
LoL is starting to look a lot like all those mobile fantasy MOBAs cuz all recent female champs/reworks have the same faces and sexy bodies even though Rito said they won't make such designs anymore. Makes me rly sad...
Baylon Raptor they were sexy since the beginning, you can complain about it for the new champions, but not for reworks
TB Skyen, matching their body types can also show a unity between them other than the slight color similarities. Other then the Splash art and the minute colors, they show no more signs showing a unity between them.
Thanks to your video now I can properly design characters
I just noticed that her base should have been the Iron Inquisitor. Fits her. No face, just mask. As she level throughout the game, her headpiece becomes from simple tiara to a glorious crown.
Old kayle was a faceless angel of justice but I think the reason the new one loses the helmet as she levels is simply because she WANTS to be seen and recognized as the face of justice and purity sort of a whole look upon my visage and weep sorta thing. Old kayle knew she was suppose be justice incarnate new kayle put that upon herself therefore it makes the whole thing more personal for her.
I was really expecting a better treatment to kayle. I love knights, and angels and all that jazz and while i do love a bunch of things of this rework (like the sword, the wings and how she works now) the base skin it's pretty bad for me. BUT! at least we now have the valkyrie skin, so im going with that
Aether Wing has gone full Gundam I'm so happy personally xD
Also i kinda disagree that part where you said, that it could've been them instead of their mother becamed aspects, yeah but the thing that is so used up so many times already, people climbing up to mt targon to become aspects is quite overrated to me, at least they made it different on how to acquire its power, in which is to be conceived by an aspect vessel itself, in which it was the first thing ever that happened before....
Not to mention their drive because of their parents adds a twist and a bit relatable too, yeah you can say its cliche but it still works, for them at least....
While I know skins aren’t anything to judge, but Judgement Kayle and Iron Inquisitor Kayle, in my opinion capture what Kayle should be much better. Iron Inquisitor specifically gives me chills to imagine seeing it irl.
Redesigned Kayle would look dope with a cool reddish, Targonian scarf 🧣
Hey, I got a smite ad! Your little experiment was a succes :D
Great analysis. I completely agree. What a missed opportunity. :(
Even in her voice lines, Kayle says she wears armour in order to not feel her human side, not feel anything. But what I thought when I saw her take that headpiece off in her final form and reveal that burning, inhumane face that lies within it I immediately thought that she has now overcome her humanness. If she has ascended completely and that human side of her no longer exists she does not need the armour to hide within anymore, she can be open as she has reached that ideal of hers and can now present it. She feels nothing, even without the armour. She is pure, she is the angel of justice, and no material or clothes can change that one way or another, as she is independent of them now.
I can see your point about this and you can explain it very well, but it could also be explained this other way.
Ten percent off on my first ward?! HELL YEA!!
Thank you for beeing honest
"to get a free trial of just 5 dollars" i figuratively died here
Well, now I realy wish they implemented your suggested changes, thanks, now I will go unsatisfied :(
That being said they should just update old Kayle model but give her 6 wings, while as you said make Morg more humane and an opposite of Kayle, while actually looking compassionate (still needs to look like morg tho)
Also your idea to make the lore about them being different parts of justice and not (maybe) following their mother vs total rejection
Man, Riot should hire you as an external consultant to new designs and lore. Well done, dude!