New Shimano GRX Di2 has me questioning the future of groupsets
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- After the very recent launch of the SRAM Red groupset, that has really set the tone in terms of Road and Gravel lever ergonomics, it is interesting to see how Shimano is responding to the demands of riders with the launch of the long awaited GRX Di2 set for 12 speed systems.
The new GRX essentially brings the Gravel groupset into line with current Dura Ace, Ultegra and 105 Di2, and everything here is reassuringly compatible. The big news is the lever design. It tries to give more space for a stronger grip on the bars for stability in rough terrain. It is not as good as SRAM Red at this, but it is an improvement.
In a future firmware update it will be possible to use just 1 Di2 button to action a front derailleur shift. This means you get another button to use as a D Fly function such as controlling a cycle computer, ANT+ light or maybe something like a GoPro or dashcam. Interesting.
In the video I pose the question. Is the future of the 3 main groupset brands, SRAM, Shimano and Campagnolo dependent on securing their eco system of parts to be increasingly integrated with other components like handlebars, cycle computers or accessories.
It feels like the future of cycling groupsets for Road and Gravel bikes is firmly heading towards fully electric and focusing more and more on ergonomics and integration.
We paid a full trade price for the components in this review. The video is not sponsored, although we were granted early access to the product in order to make this video. - Sport
Remember that with Garmin computers you get 3 options from 1 Di2 button, as you can single-click a hidden button, double-click it, or click and hold, configurable on the Garmin, lots of choices. On my road bike I used to have the left hidden button as Garmin control and right hidden button as rear downshift. I programmed it like that, so if I was drinking/eating with my left hand and needed a downshift going uphill I could do so safely. I always had my Di2 buttons setup SRAM-like, left shift levers easier gears (front and rear) right levers harder gears. I have been saying to my fellow riders for ages that Shimano should change the one button for front upshift and another for a front downshift, to just being able to hit a button which tells Di2 to "just give me a front change", as there are only 2 rings, and you can only be in one or the other. Much simpler idea than having 2 seperate buttons.
Activating a dropper post with an extra button might be a useful feature for a gravel/CX bike.
I'm planning to build a gravel bike with a 40mm shock in the front. Would be really nice if I could activate the lockout without having to install another lever. But I probably can't even afford GRX Di2 so I can only dream 😅
On that note, a suspension stem that would be lockable with a button would definitely be interesting for an all-road bike.
It would have to activate the magic seat tube battery disappear/reappear function too, LOL
Love your reviews, honest and down to earth, would love to see more MTB related reviews. Thank You!!
Did you see our suspension tuning vid from a few days ago?
@@Mapdec Yes i did, super good!!! Thanks!
If I had a spare button I would use it to extend my Shimano shifting subscription :)
Thank you for pointing out the "toggle function" for front shifting. As i cant move the fingers on my left hand, i can do all my shifting with just one hand now! I already am using automatic shifting, but there are situation where a manual fast front shift is the thing i was looking for. Definitely on my todo list and waiting for the update in the app.
I hope you're right about the firmware update! I like the idea of front toggle shifting!
I really hope that we see a quality 10 speed mechanical groupset again. I fear that L-Twoo and Sensah may be the future for non-competitive riders on a budget. I wonder just how sustainable this high cost tech innovation path is. Will the exponential increase in cost (purchase, service and parts) from mechanical 9/10 speed to todays hydraulic/electronic 12/13 speed be the death knell for the industry?
Yes. We really need Road Cues to happen
Shimano has completely let down 10 speed road, Tiagra 4700 is not even compatible with the older 10 speed Ultegra and 105 and it's trully a pain in the bum. I understand putting more R&D on drivetrains with more gearing, but as a mechanic I really expect more compatibility and cross using.
It's still relatively easy to get hold of old 10-speed components - some even unused - except for the brifters.
I think Shimano really messed it up with Tiagra 4700 (and GRX 400), making them compatible with the 11-speed derailleurs instead of the old 10-speed ones.
(What I'd really want would be new brifters that would a) work with the old 10-speed derailleurs and b) have hydraulic reservoirs. That way I could upgrade to proper hydraulic brakes on my gravel bike without upgrading the whole groupset. Which sort of explains why it won't happen, I guess.)
There are also still Sunrace and Microshift as alternatives to the Chinese groupsets.
Well, these groups are very cheap to manufacture, and expensive to develop. The margins are just brutal if you ship in volume.
I'd use the spare shifter to open the garage door, then turn the coffee machine on and start my shower running. 😅
Rocket launcher to attack bad drivers lol
I am doing my best to go wireless with separate shifting and braking controls. It is insane to lock both together when shifting can be done by a button located almost anywhere.
Why its only for little cassettes? The best thing about new grx is that you finally can use 10-51 cassetes without switching cage on a derailleur.
And now they proudly show us 105 Di2 with clutch. Bruh...
Yeah I just don’t get it
I had almost unlimited budget, and still went for mtb 7000 deraileur and 11-51 11s cassette, grx600 levers and brakes with a tanpan. I could not justify any real additional value. Sad to see that shimano does not support 1x12 10-51 gravel-centric/dropbar setups. I suppose Shimano can't imagine people using their gravel bikes as mtbs in the 90s.
As a frequent commuter, using the buttons to control lights and bell would make a massive difference. I've never seen a Di2 compatible bike bell though. For the lights, it's do-able within the Garmin ecosystem, but it's far from perfect. Without a third-party connect IQ on the Edge series, you can't individually control the front and rear light. I also use the shifter to scroll through the various screens of the garmin headunit. The chainring "toggle" is nice, but syncro-shift is just so convenient that I'm not sure it will impact many users.
Great video Paul. But really, GRX is redundant. No increase in range over 105, more expensive. Why should you buy this over 105 for gravel?! Better ergonomics on the road levers. Spring tension of the mech maybe? You can drill a small hole further round on the cage if you want to match the spring tension of the grx mech, if its higher. Might even be the same. Since is launch GRX has always had a tiny range, the 1x being horrifically small compared to the 1x XPLR setups. I use mechanical 105 and Ultegra on gravel, chunky gravel, and never had an issue. Cheaper parts for sure.
The cranks for GRX are significantly different (different chainrings, and very different chainline and q-factor), that's the only really big thing.
Yep. Cheapest method is 105 levers, a GRX mech for the clutch. Maybe a GRX front mech if you need the tyre clearance. Ergonomics are personal preference. Personally, I’m addicted to the new sram levers. 🤦♂️
@@imrevadasz1086 i dont think the chainline is significantly that important as its a multi-gear bike. As long as the rings clear the chainstay, good to go. Many gravel bikes will fit a 50/34 chainset.
@@Mapdec as for the clutch, you can increase the spring tension by hooking the torsion spring into the adjacent hole on the lower cage pivot. You can actually drill further holes to increase it even more!
How is the latest Shimano GRX 1x 12- speed mechanical 10-45 and 10-51 smaller in range than SRAM XPLR 10-44.
I have 105 Di2 and tend to use it mostly in the fully synchronised mode, meaning that I do all my shifting up and down on the right lever (leaving the Di2 to do its trickery on the front derailleur, which you can of course customise). This way the shifters my left lever are free to do whatever you want with and I currently have them set up to flick through the pages of my Garmin unit. I don't know how much the coming firmware update might allow us to set up specific tasks e.g. like you mentioned turning lights on/off, but basically having two spare shifters means that all sorts of functions on connected devices, including lights, cameras, and e.g. bone conduction headphones should be possible.
I use a 105 group set for Gravel - R7000 11 speed mechanical with 11-40T cassette, no modifications required. front mechs is working with 46-30T chainrings - £200 for the whole set
I'd like to see an open standard electronic groupset. Despite what people may think, some of the original SRAM and Di2 patents will soon expire (if not already) and it should pave the way for wired electronic shifting, all powered by standard batteries that fit on the derailleur or in the seat tube or post. One electronic shifter and derailleur should be able to handle all shifting from 8-12 speed, because motors can precisely move the jockey wheels, without the need for precisely machined mechanical cogs and stops. The cages and jockey wheels can all be made to be interchangeable modular parts of the system. It would vastly simplify manufacturing and distribution, much the same way Tesla uses many of the same parts in different vehicles, to cut manufacturing costs. I've heard such potential competitor products, shown at Asian trade shows, and look forward to seeing them been installed as OEM or aftermarket.
I like this. I do also suspect we will be sticking with 12 speed for a quite a while and see development in other areas.
Decathlon or so should just work with the China 3 and push an open bicycle electronics standard, not just for shifting, but for almost every imaginable function that could exist on a bicycle.
Just like how EU regulations can rein in Apple or Tesla, I can imagine Decathlon can lead a open bicycle standard to rein in Sram and Shimano (and never mind Campy they are going to die in 10 years)
@@michaeltsui3435 I think you're severely underestimating the power that the Big Two have over the cycling industry, while simultaneously overestimating the importance of the cycling industry as a regulation priority. I think there will be some regulation enforcing standardation of e-bike technology, but us stuck on leg power will probably get just some spill-overs, if that. That being said, I agree that standardation is the way forward to see proper innovation and competition instead of a stagnant and expensive duopoly.
@@michaeltsui3435 There is regulation of Apple and other tech firms for a different reason -- primarily interoperability and patent pools. You need to have an Apple phone work on the same network as a Samsung, so there has to be a common protocol for data transmission etc. But a lot of bike tech cannot be protected by patents because they have expired, just as there are open mold frames. Decathlon jumping in an having Microshift or another design and make one could be a very interesting move. They know how to design bike stuff and price it very competitively. But Shimano and SRAM are OEM suppliers and they can also deeply discount groupsets to get them on big brand bikes -- problably at least 60% off retail.
This is exactly what i wish as a customer.
Ooh that's easy (the extra button i mean) . I would use it to turn on the rocket motor! Just perfect when you are about to be dropped uphill😁
I have recently moved to 10 speed mechanical on my gravel bike with bar end shifter and dropper lever. Simply want something functional. I have had both di2 and sram etap/axs and while the worked fine, it’s just too expensive.
what do you think of the internal res seals not being replaceable on all Di2 levers so when they fail its new lever time? at £300 give or take a pop . And what your experience with failure rates and service life ?
Very informative as usual 👍The gravel bike I started building a year ago may finally get gears, brakes and its 1st proper ride outside rather than just on the kickr. I priced up the previous 11 speed grx di2 and was put off by all the cables and junction boxes. I have short fingers and couldnt find a mechanical setup that worked well. A bit disappointed when you just demo`ed that small amount of free stroke adjust.
Glad it was useful.
Shimano have the change to improve this group set in a way that buying it would be really worth it for the gravel/xc field, in that sense it feels that besides the shifter , truly a field well exploited, the other components are get together like in a candy shop and say , ok this ist your gravel group set, it feels that they are losing the boundaries from their products, anyway obviously no powermeter and obviously no computer unit including, only I could wait a test ride review and the best Mix Match combo for gravel journeys , thanks Paul🎉
I would really love to see a di2 gravel dropper post. The battery could be internally mounted in the frame like the gen Trek madone. Ps love the vids keep it 🤘
That would be cool!
None of the main manufacturers seem to "get" gearing for the ordinary rider. For the many cyclists who are old, not athletically gifted, or unfit (all three, for some of us 😁), a 27-inch gear (such as 34 front and rear) is just not low enough to get up big hills. My ideal road or gravel gearing would be something like a 42/26 front and 11-36 cassette, with electronic shifting. Even Shimano's road triple doesn't go as low as this.
I don't see a 4 Finger grip on the leaver as a nice feature. That typically means even more reach for the ergonomic hood position.
Cool groupset, seems just to be bringing everything up to the same level across road and gravel, as we await XTR Di2 at some point this year…? 0:22 it seems to use the new EW-SD300 wires, opposed to the EW-SD50 wires of old 👍🏻
Doh 🤦♂️
Excellent video, love the new button feature for toggling. Now Shimano bring the 1x12 Di2!! Why is Shimano taking so long?? Like SRAM AXS been around for forever it seems now
They haven’t even got di2 MTB 12 speed yet.
As always, great video. One small correction, Ultegra 8150 can shift perfectly with 11-36. Trick is you measure chain around big chainring and 36 cog with 3 links and 5mm space better cog on b tension. I have ridden gravel without any problem. As matter of fact you can run it up to 11-38. On the stand, under load, if chain length is correct, runs the same.
Like I said in video. We all know it works, it’s just not officially supported. Very weird
@@Mapdec i listen again, sorry I misunderstood initially. I honestly think this is flop. I don’t know why would you run shimano for gravel. Unless you go mechanical…
i would love an electronic braking system that with a touch of a button centers the brake pads on the rotor,would make changing wheels ect so much easier
Any chance you can explain the short you produced regarding the Karoo Three?
Yes. I want to give it a proper review. One that has cut through my learning curve.
thanks for the video! Do you think it will be possible to use an Ultegra road set up with only the rear mech from GRX Di2? In the past it used to be that both shifters had to be from the same "family" but not sure if this is the case anymore. Cheers!
Yep. It all works. It would be a good way to keep the chain tensioned on rough surfaces, but that is the only advantage
@@Mapdec There was a mistake in your reply, so I corrected it for you below:
Yep. It all works. It would be a good way to keep the chain tensioned on *standard British Roads*, but that is the only advantage
@@chris1275cc 😂
I had the the older grx di2 815 shifters and i thought the hoods were a bad fit. I ended up selling the shifters and getting ultegra as the servo wave feel of the braking was not to my liking.
lets get those sram and shimano buttons shifting the classified hub....
YES! this is the best idea in the coments
Natively without hacking, that would be great. The button is the red wart on the FMEA chart
Lots of rumors about SRAM buying Classified.
@@petersouthernboy6327I'm not sure why you would buy it and not just copy it
@@TrickyTree84 IP.
I am running r8070 and have turned on the automatic shifting on the front mech.... I basically never use the buttons on my left brifter.
Assuming it is available in software you should then be able to have four free buttons... the two on the right shift normally... when you get far enough it automatically shifts the front and compensates with the rear so you do not get a big jump.... which leaves your two non shift buttons and your two left shift buttons available for whatever you want.... The only reason I havent done this is because I have no real reason for my spare buttons.... plus I do very occasionally drop a chain and like to be able to put it back on without stopping.
Was waiting to see what the new Grx di2 is before upgrading my CX/ gravel bike from sram 1 x 11 mechanical. Not enough range in the 2x12 grx di2 if set up 1x. All thing new about the group is the shifters, everything else is 105 and MTB parts or re badged MTB pedals. So going with ratio technology 1x12 as frame as no FD cable routing. Not enough money axs apex now. When have the money going with sram axs system.
I use the buttons to stop/start and new lap for intervals...maybe not the most common use for a gravel groupset 😂
What would you decide to buy for ?
I have to choose between the new shimano and the classified powershift for my gravel bike
I don’t feel Classified is ready yet. I would stick with a 2x if you need that range.
Have you seen since 11 spd and likely now into all 12 spd road groups where removing the rear wheel is very difficult and sometimes impossible? It varies from frame design/hanger design and tire size but for example let’s say you’re running Ultegra di2 with a 2x with disc and can’t remove your rear wheel without deflating the tire. Sometimes removing the rear der. from hanger is an option as well. There simply isn’t a clear path that accommodates getting the disc rotor into the caliper and the chain around the cassette. Doesn’t matter what chainring you’re in either or how hard you try with force. Also I wonder what pros do during races if their bike suffers from this during wheel changes…bonus if you address bikes with fenders adding to the terrible dance.
This depends a lot on the frame. But yes. Some are a real struggle
@@Mapdec would you consider doing a short video about this?
@@codyhuber I have. 😀
Extra buttons are always nice.
I would setup them as makro keys for actions, for example..
1 gear up the cassete and pause ride on garmin
Press and hold for "storage mode" - drop to smallest cog (to preserve springs), stop ride and turn off the lights (if connected)
In terms of ecosystem.. i'm beliver in open source, in bike industry it's not doable, but at least i would like to see more compatibility between parts and devices.. making rd backwards/fowards compatible via firmware update for a few generations.
Oh. Macro functions. Dropper down, camera on.
Do you think this will take a 45t cassette ? I know 11s can take a 42t but there is no such option for 12 speed. This wide range helps my wife a lot get up anything.
if it does, it would come with compromises.
grx wireless dropper post when
I regret going to 12 speed. It adds nothing but extra complexities and sensitivities
It makes sense for 1x. Not so much for 2x
this is true for mtb as well, bashing your mech makes 12 speed very annoying
I love my new XT 12 speed but proper setup is necessary. Chain length is critical too.
@@Lenser Yep. Zero desire to upgrade my GRX810 setup.
12 speed runs as good if not better than my 11 and 10 speed 🤷🏻♂️
dropper post for that extra button please! ^_^
Dropper remote. Really it would need a new battery unit that could interface with a dropper post (pull a short cable) BUT I would go electronic if I could get a good wireless dropper post going.
nice, so I can shift RD with two levers, or just one lever.
FD. Yes. 👍
@9:36 The extra button being freed up would be perfect for a reverb axs dropper post actuation, too bad there’s no chance of sram letting shimano gain access to such a function :(
Wouldn't it also need to make the seat tube battery magically disappear too?
Can the ST-RX825 shifters be powered by the internal battery?
Yes. Like I showed there are ports for a cable from battery. You will need a Y split or junction though.
If Shimano/Pro come out with a di2 compatible dropper that could be good use for the extra programmable buttons. Maybe they could figure out some way to integrate it with the di2 battery since a lot of people already mount their battery there
I suspect that battery placement is causing head aches. For the MTB range they have made stearer tube systems. But this might not work for carbon steerers as well.
This is one of the best bicycle and bicycle components channels on YT. No BS, lots of honest knowledge, and not a pretend reviewer shill like Gravel Cyclist, David Arthur, Ben Delaney, Outdoorbros, etc…. Just loads of good technical and common sense info!
Thanks. We try. Don’t always get it right. 🙏
Speaking about ergonomics and design it seems that you have missed a whole previous generation of the GRX-815 that had all the same features except for the 12 speed
I want all my buttons to do James Bond stuff like oil slick or dropping nails to keep the baddies off my wheel.
Honestly I'm not sure I would be interested in 'freeing up another button' with the single-button front shift per se. What I would 100% do is set up left and right shifters to be the same; paddle buttons shift the rear up/down, the 3rd button shifts the front. This means that I get full control over my shifting even if I just have one hand on the bars. On long distances it'll also help with hand fatigue.
Interesting. Full control in one hand.
This may be an unpopular opinion but on bikes designed to get rough dirty I don't want super-expensive derailleurs getting mud and grit flung at them as they dangle their lower jockey wheel inches above thick brambles and grabby weeds. What we need is indestructible reliability like Shimano Zee gave us for no-nonsense freeride MTBs. I dunno - I feel like if you finish your gravel bike and it's still clean, you never needed a gravel bike at all.
Extra button use ? ………instant teleport to the cafe please 😆
are the clutches on these newer di2 mechs more waterproof than say the m8100 derailleur?
No.
@@Mapdec annoying, honestly once they get worn/corroded past a certain point there's no fixing it except buying a new one
For me, electronic usability and simplicity has got to improve drastically. They've got to get on wireless contact charging for both the shifters and the mechs.
Magnetic cable also good. Changing cr batteries and plugging in your bike to an outlet has got to stop being part the experience of owning a good bike.
Crash mode, low battery...etc must be indicated way more clearly. I remember all the various beep codes battery check procedures and crash mode reset options and have it set up to my head unit so I can check battery there and actually check battery there, but many people don't, they own Di2 without even a head unit. What's currently there is just not good enough.
If a car just runs out of fuel randomly without the car itself telling you, you have to install some phone app and add the car fuel data field to your phone app and check it manually every so often, that would be a bad car.
Great comment. Lots of experience here.
0:22, that's a EW-SD300, not 50. 7:20, I've been running an 10-44 underneath with that derailleur.
Don't fix it if it isn't broken I guess... old GRX Di2 was a very solid groupset and this seems like a sensible new generation. Although I expected a bit more from Shimano to be honest. Price seems very high at the moment, but I am pretty sure this will fall in line with Ultegra Di2 after a while. The 2x option however is very welcome. Sram 1x is good but not versatile enough for mixed all road and high speed gravel
Humm, so pricing up derailleurs and shifters is $1735 usd from the LBS down the road, and taking a look at aliexpress, picking up the equivalent set of 105 Di2 is $430 usd. Whelp.
The 12 s grx di2 shares the design of 105, not UT. What a pity. I thought at least the FD should use the UT, but only the controller. However ppl can still use 8150FD to avoid the strength problems of the plastic cages on 105 FD.
Shimano really at the forefront of technology here... coming soon, fully wireless and 1x? ;)
I think that will be a while off yet. They haven’t even got that on MTB yet.
You make put unofficially 40t cassette and mix it with old grx di2 , so I guess you can do it with new one
As I remember it the 11speed GRX Di2 levers are the role model for the new ones from SRAM Red…
And I am rather certain that the 12speed GRX Di2 derailleur will work with a 11-40 cassette - just like it does so well on my 11speed GRX Di2 bicycles … 😉🤓
Oh for sure. The first GRX shifter showed the world we wanted gravel specific kit.
I would connect it to a time machine for mechanical shifting and rim brakes.
Oh man. You have a Time Machine and all you want is a rim brake.
@@Mapdec Hahaha! Only in this SPECIFIC instance. Cheers!
6:31 Isn't that the old 11 speed derailleur 😅
Haha. FFS. How did I not notice that. 🤦♂️
yeay!!!!
I am still using 3 x 7 and 1 x 9 on my bikes.
Wonder if SRAM is going to do a one button toggle for the front mech?
Yes. This was announced at the red launch.
@@Mapdec for the wireless and wired blips buttons as well?
@@jennibristol7720 yes. One blip to control front mech.
@@Mapdec thank you, you right but it still doesn’t appear to have all the functionality I like.
Link the button to an electronic dropper post on a gravel bike!
Both SRAM and Shimano now have larger pulley wheels...? That's quite a coincidence, or is it? Why the larger wheel?
It also has the narrow wide teeth and helps with chain retention and friction at wider chainlines.
I don’t think you should do 1 finger brake when you on the hood riding gravel
Why? It means you have a full grip. No open hands that can slip. The Red levers really are very different to anything out there right now.
so now the chainline is 52.5?
It can be.
If you have completely electronic shifting I don't see why manufacturers would not implement a sequential shifting logic that takes care of both front and rear derailleur actions fully automatically. All the rider needs is to push '+' or '-' and the electronic would take care of front and rear derailleurs by itself. I could even imagine adding this as some kind of 'auto+' / 'auto-' button in addition to the more conventional dedicated buttons for front/rear shifting.
Oh. This does exist, but there are times you want to over ride it. Mostly downshifting at a junction. Also it can foul if you are not ready for a front shift and have the power on. I use it all the time and quite like it. The Shimano system does it best. The sram system seems to allow a bit more cross chaining than I might choose myself.
di2 foghorn. one of the ones they have for boats.
a button to open the garage door please ! :)
Cool. 😎
Oh yes. That would be perfection.
You know what would be really great? If some software engineers crack the wireless groups so they can all be cross compatible. When you think about it, the reasons are obvious why it hasn't happened, but they could be made to work together. Deconstruct the component group mentality!
I frankly don't like electronic groups because they lock functionality behind encrypted software and communication. The very function is at the whim of manufacturers, and ultimately it's not a longterm benefit to riders. One thing wears out years later, can't swap it out, can no longer update, here's your $2-3k bill. Don't get me started on servicing the crazy expensive levers. There's a few seals, but you can't buy them... for reasons. Why is it different with a simple lever vs a RS Super Deluxe?
The extra button can activate a Volcano vape on my rear rack with the hose on my bar. Perfect for recovery rides.
And here I am still using my 10 year old 11-28 2x10 Ultegra Di2.
Dude. That was 2011.
@@Mapdec I bought the bike in 2014, the fact that Ultegra di2 was available in 2011 has nothing to do with my purchase.
If we are talking about upgrade, I would firsty like to see comparison with old GRX Di2 (ergonomics of levers...) rather that comparison with 105, ultegra and sram red
Ok. Problem with that is that the 11sp will be discontinued soon, so future choice won’t include it as an option.
I am owner of the old GRX Di2 and I am interested in upgrade or difference (especially the levers) of new ones compared to old ones , if It is worth to change it. Thanks a lot.
@@damjankolenc7168 in that case. No. Run what you have until it breaks. Nothing here will make you faster or more comfortable. 👍
@@Mapdec very good anser, thak you😄(gravel... I am not interested at speed)
For 1x gravel Sram Force is the best setup, in my experience. The shifting is a level up from any Di2 I've used (road or mtb).
for sure. SRAM seem to be marching away with the gravel market.
Spare button? Afterburners, obviously.
Cycling is so expensive now
And it has to compete with battery powered scooters.
@@johnlesoudeur3653A scooter rider isn't a cyclist though.
No it's not numbskull. Still lots of good value options that are super affordable, they just don't get quite so much media coverage. Do you really expect to pay peanuts and get the top of the range??? Surely not!! .... nothing works that way.
It always has been expensive at the upper end from racing to high end touring etc and in some ways you get more bang for your buck now that 30 years ago. You can buy a very capable road bike that you could group ride fast on for £1000
@@CG-99 It has never been this expensive. Older cheap bikes were lacking in features but were built well, nowadays they are made like crap but at least they got all the swag.
So maybe you can buy a crap bike for cheap, but to get a well-built bike you will have to open that wallet wide.
For example, we see in the shop cheaper Decathlon bikes every week, I like them from the aspect that they get many people on wheels, but every part on them has a lifespan of one service interval... if you take the part out you should not or can not put it back in. BBs, hubs, but usually the whole wheel, brake sets, chains, cassettes, chainwheels or cranksets regularly go to the trash in the first service on those bikes.
On the other hand, the same type of bikes we sell are starting from almost twice the amount it was a few years ago.
press button, get ice cold Radler
Would a long cage swap allow 10-51t cassette? That lever makes it difficult to just use as a right lever with an existing 1x12 grx setup from an aesthetic pov.
Spare button, is for missiles.
This needs to be on the next Bond movie
@@Mapdec what bike would bond ride though? Road, gravel, MTB, or hybrid?
@@whateverisavailabley it would be a J Lavarack Road bike
At this point, I'm hoping SRAM updates Force with the new Red shifters or they start selling the Red shifters by themselves, because I've committed to the SRAM ecosystem. I still have Shimano mechanical bikes, but Shimano didn't commit to 1x and is still saying "people aren't buying 1x" even though most of the people around me are running it. I wish SRAM updated their brakes to use mineral oil like their top spec mountain brakes, which would open possible options of running Shimano brakes with SRAM brifters, but from my point of view, if you are not running a front mech, there is no point in running Shimano.
You have 6 buttons between the two shifters. So if the front derailleur is controlled by one button you have three spare buttons. Start and stop the tunes, scroll through my Garmin, and activate a dropper. I guess I am going to need electronic shifting. I can sell it to my wife as a safety upgrade - I’m keeping my hands on the “brakes”.
I take it the cages are incompatible with the road derailleur's
i'll check.. you thinking about putting a GRX cage on an ultegra mech?
@@Mapdec yeah mullet style.
Extra button = garage door opener
The shifter ergonomics aren't great,they should be flatter,the upturn doesn't work with the palms draped over the hoods position.
Shimano GRX820 mechanical. 10-45 casette (All I need) and any 1x Cranks I like, currently planning on some raceface next r ones with Pass Quest 44T chainring
They will launch a 17 speed cassette and still be scared of giving 40 or dare I say 42/45 teeth rear cassettes!!!
i think you could be right
Di2 Dropper post
Yes.
Shimano really dropped the ball here. They had the chance to put out a one-by that uses 10-51 cassettes and competes with Sram's one-by. But in true Shimano fashion they dit not.
Whatever happen dont go 13 speed for the love of god. I want road CUES with reliable component and rim brake
That's wiredless😉
🤦♂️
I thought you did not like Schwalbe tyres, so why are they on the look?😂
lol. I explained in other vid. They have been on the shelf for years. I can’t sell the damm things. Couldn’t face binning them. So fitted them to winter bike, but then i needed a sram XDR wheel set for the Red test.
@@Mapdec I must have missed that bit. I try watching all your videos. This is the first season I run Schwalbe because our shop doesn't get Continental anymore. So far I had to bin 2 rear tyres within 500 kilometers because they tore open. Utter garbage.
@@Mapdecwhich gravel tyre(s) do you prefer?
CR1625 batteries is a deal breaker imo.
How many watts do you think I could save going from a 2014 TCR SL to an SL7 with the same components and handlebars/wheels in a strong headwind? I'm guessing 70-100 watts but I am just looking for some justification to give up or buy a new bike.
5w max. If you wear the right socks. 😂
@@Mapdec hmm my position must be horrible then
4:03 people ride like that? I dont think that is how drop bar shifters are intended to be used. No acutal brake pulling possible and danger of serious injury
Well SRAM made it possible and now you can. Take a look at the pro peleton and how they ride low and hunched down on the hoods, same with flat gravel. On the hoods but for arms resting on bars. You don’t do it because it’s not possible on other shifters.
@@Mapdec but the groupset just released. So people doing this on older groupsets are not particularly safe. Also last time I checked the aero hoods position is faster and allows for braking and easy switching of position. You shouldn't be gripping the shifters too hard. Even on rough gravel a lot of stability comes from the core, and you let your arms/hands sit on top and let the bar move up and down. No need to grip and force the wheel/handelbar.
@@RAP4EVERMRC96 come and ride some Lakes chunky gravel. It’s MTB really, but it’s fun to do on an inappropriate bike 😂
@@Mapdec sounds like I would enjoy that. I did the blue lagoon challenge on my non suspended gravel bike. I guess most European gravel is more harsh since we don’t have such endless gravel streets as in the US.
Use for the spare button - toggle the hub motor on/off 😂
Hell yes
The sooner Shimano realizes that there is one setup that makes all the others redundant -the better. For gravel nothing beats 46/30 chainrings to 40t cassette. Absolutely nothing. Do that, make it Di2 and laugh all the way to the bank.
I know absolutely no one how brakes with one finger or with the little finger on top of the hoods.
That’s because you can’t. It’s just not possible. However. You do know folk that ride low on the hoods and have to adjust their grip to brake.