Squares go out of square. How to fix wood, plastic, and metal squares.
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2023
- It amazes me how often a square is not square. Especially brand new store bought ones. But considering almost every tool bought needs tuning this should make sense. I discuss squares and their adjustment including a wooden English Square, plastic speed square, a framing square and combination squares plus many others.
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Shawn’s quote of the day “don’t be afraid to whack it on both sides” 😂😂😂
If you want a square that is correct out of the box, consider a machinist's square (usually stamped DIN 875). A 12" one goes for about $60 and is within one thousandth or less. Set it on a flat surface and see if a feeler gauge will fit between it and your working square. The square's beam can be used to check the flatness of a glass or tile plate, or you could invest another $60 in a small surface plate. For a small square like the double square in the video (my favorite for joinery work), a 1-2-3 block will work. Yes, overkill for even the most precise joinery. But some woodworking squares sell for more. I also am an amateur machinist. In machining we would expect any adjustable square to be a thousanth or so off. I've purchased some seconds that were .004". Drafting squares I've checked are usually .002". The Empire big speed squares are usually within .005".
Good and clear advice. After 54 years as a carpenter, I finally now know how to adjust my steel combination square. I did know about doing the metal roofing squares. It is important to remember, what level of accuracy is required for specific tasks. If I was making a piano, it matters, cutting plasterboard (drywall) I would not bother. Thank you.
You'd be surprised how inaccurate pianos are, even factory made, where it's 90% CNC woodworking.
Plastic squares. I like them because they come brightly colored and I have 20/600 vision, plus I can't see a straight line,( they are all curved to me). The tip on pkaning them is priceless. I have tuned speed squares as well as I could, but feel confident to resquare them now. I like the no fluff delivery of the info. Subscribed. I did scroll thru your other videos and plan on watching them all. Now to find my straight reference edge, lol !
You have shattered my (apparently unfounded) faith in my Starrett squares. And that's a good thing.
Look at it like this. Lie-Nielsen and Veritas make phenominal planes that are ready to go from the factory and others you have to fiddle with first. But all of them need work after use. They need tuning eentually.
I didn't know about the tiny ledges in combination squares, thanks for the information.
I have my Dad’s starette 12” combo square that was a 1/16” out at 12”…….thanks for tip on how to fix it…it is now perfectly square once again and ready for use
After 22 years of working on my shop's concrete floor, last year I decided to put down some vinyl plank flooring. Didn't want to use my Starrett combination square for that, so I purchased an inexpensive plastic carpenter square like the orange one you show. It was very easy to tune it up as you have shown. Glad to see you posting videos again!
20+ video's so far this year. Didn't stop. I just don't have a team of employees like most do today. Even the channels you think are one man nowadays often have editors, managers and fulfillment staff/contractors.
You can square a drywall square a bit similarly to the carpenter square, but instead of going diagonally with your score line go straight across the base of the t. As long as the reference edge (the one hook on the drywall edge) isn't bent, you can adjust the longer edge. But you do have to support the reference edge up so as not to bend the square into a taco lol.
I use my 18" straight rule with parallel sides to extend small squares for squareness checking. It amplifies the measurement accuracy and standardizes the line length. But then again I only make three marks with a utility knife. 1. at the near end of the 18" rule. 2. at the far end of the 18" rule 3. flip and realign the near mark. then mark the far end. I measure with a machinist rule with 100ths or digital calipers. If no magnifying glass handy take a pick with my cell phone or iPad. Use half the distance between 2,3 to calculate angle off.
Should you want to get a perfect square (but also a perfect edge, or a flat) without any precise reference instrument, then you need three squares. First step is to get squares #1 and #2 perfectly matching back to back (as you show at 14:00), only keeping their edge straight, no matter of how squared they will result. Second step is to match back to back the square #3 with #1, working only on #3. Now you got #2 and #3 out of square of the same amount, either converging or diverging. The last step is to match #2 and #3 working evenly on both.
Oh I guess it's time to go clean some squares now! Thanks Shawn 😊
You have perfect corners on the "machinist's marble" you showed in another vid! Use feeler gauges to check squares! I would not bother trying to find a file to fit in the slot for the ruler, I'd make a scraper from a metal lathe cutoff blade of the right size and scrape off the tops. A file is probably a little aggressive. Best is a milling machine or equivalent of course.
Thank you for the excellent video on the care and feeding of squares. As always with your videos, I learned a few things. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you! I was cleaning tools for a class and I’ll now be tuning my Starretts.
Thank you so much for showing us how to tune the steel combination squares - I was about to toss one of them in the bin, but at least now it has a second chance. Also, gold information on using and tuning those cheap plastic squares with a file.
Thank you, Shawn! Definitely picked up some new tips and tricks. I appreciate your advice.
Perhaps I am late... I have very similar t-square you ask about. I discovered it was very convenient when one's dealing with Big Sheets of anything, AND that it was out of square. With some thought, a prayer, a sign of the cross and a judicious blow (or two? it was a couple of years ago, so I don't remember ;-) ) on one of the t-sides with a wooden mallet, things improved almost to perfection. On ONE side. I marked it, and now use that side only. Thanks for your wonderful vid!
I learned a LOT in this video. Thank you! 👍
Great presentation. Thank you! Loved the drywall bit at the end
Good video as always. For the drywall square you could take your method of squaring up the framing one but only punch the beam. That should leave the fence untouched but slightly distort the reference between the two.
Just a guess though.
This is all very good information. The way I would go about adjusting that drywall square is with heat. The most obvious method would be to take it out on a nice hot summer day and leave it out in the Sun. Then when the Sun has heated it enough I would grab it with welders gloves and start to hit it to one side or the other to true it up with a small ball ping hammer and wood block. You could use a small torch, but you would have to keep it moving as you want to heat up the whole square not a spot on it.
Nice info, I have used a small ball peen hammer to adjust carpenters squares, a trick my great uncle showed me. On the Starrett square, I didn’t realize it had an adjusting tab on the groove, never looked! So now I know has,to adjust it, should,the need arise. Thanks again
Cheers
---- one of the best ways to have 'square' tools is check them BEFORE you take them home - it was easier in the old days when quality tools with milled cast iron beds/tables were available - it gave you a flat surface to work from - grab a handful of squares and start checking them against each other AND against the cast iron table and the groves for the mitre gauge - was also the best place to set-up and check levels - weed-out the rejects and take the best available at the start - with today's aluminum and plastic toy tools, it's harder to find a good surface from which to start checking
thank you, Shawn. I am always learning from your channel
Fantastic, sir. I have wondered for a long time whether, and how, one could tune unsquare squares to bring them back in. Some very creative ideas here, whether they came from you or from previous generations. Thank you!
Excellent topic! I have a set of precision machinists squares that I bought specifically to check other tools. Otherwise, they and other reference tools live in their own drawer.
Time to tune up some squares i guess. I have a couple of plastic ones, a 12" and a 16". Never even thought they had to be tuned up, just always used them as is. Learn something new everyday. I'm just getting into the woodworking business and your videos are very helpful.
Awesome video. Always great to learn and your teachings are easy to tallow. Keep up the amazing work. 👽
I can't express how usefull is this video for me, because I recently found that my square (similair to your Starret) is a little bit off and I didn't know how to adjust it!
On the metal ones also sometimes they'll develop a small Burr if they're not machined really well and they don't put a champ on the end. You can develop a burr that burk and make it off
Excellent video. Thanks!
Thanks for the video! Very informative!
And here i am LIKE A DAMN FOOL trusting my squares are square, you're right they are off a bit, im ok with it though im not that good anyway, haha. Love your vid guy, ive learned a lot & ive only wached about 10 to 15 so far
Been a loooong time subscriber. Like this more mellow you. Great video.
Great tune-up video. I have a few combo/metal that need testing for sure. Thanks for the tips. As far as drywall - Mud Hides all!! LOL Thanks for sharing
my starrett went out of square within two years of use, bought it new, it's the small forged handle version
i have no idea what went wrong but the stock was actually worn out since the 45 was perfect but not the 90
took me two hours to correct with sandpaper
The last drywall square I bought was about fifteen dollars, so the easy button is to buy another. I don't like hanging sheetrock, it is more I don't like taping and mudding than the actual hanging part.
thanks for the work
Great video! Thanks!
I did not know how to tune combination squares--Thank you!
BTW, Starrett invented the combination square.
Yet another lesson they do not teach in carpentry class. Not only have I bought squares which were out of true and had to be returned, I’ve bought levels which were out of true from the store as well.
You haven't taken a carpentry class from me! (Or, if you have, you weren't paying attention!) 😏
With the wood squares using the side of the workbench seems fine, but for the Starrett I think I’d use a 12” precision straightedge (one of the 1/4” thick Starrett ones).
When you go out 10” or so from the bench edge I’d think that much distance would magnify any issue with either the square or the edge. Didn’t really trust my old surface plate so put two dowels in a piece of scrap, scratched one line, then cut two .005” pieces of shim stock and flipped the straightedge and the lines looked perfectly even.
It’s really hard to make one item that has an edge you can be certain is straight. But it’s actually pretty easy to make a pair of items that have an edge that you can be certain *is* straight to within 0.001” along its length:-
- gang the items up together & simultaneously joint one edge of both items using whatever is your preferred jointing tool;
[the jointed edge of each item now has the same profile as the jointed edge of the other item, although that profile may not be straight]
- separate out the items & but the jointed edges up against each other;
[if the jointed profile isn’t straight, there will be gaps between the butted up jointed edges - a belly profile shows as a gap in the middle, hump profile as gaps at the ends, etc.]
- mark the high spots, where the jointed profiles touch, gang the items back up as in step 1 & remove those high spots from both jointed edges simultaneously;
- repeat step 2, etc.
Because you’re creating mirroring profiles, the ONLY way for there to be no gaps along the length of the jointed edges is for them each to be absolutely dead straight - geometry says so…
Now these edges you can be certain are straight can be used to check whether or not other stuff you’re unsure of is straight.
Drywall square idea: Put some tape to act as shims on the reference surface?
----- I thought the name "Drywall Square" was intended as a tongue-in-cheek insider joke ?
That last one, the drywall square - you might be able to tune it with a wooden or rubber mallet. Just put it in a vise, give a few taps and check again. It is metal so it should bend slightly, and the the wooden mallet wont damage it. I haven't actually tried this, but I am pretty sure it would work.
Great share. Cheers.
Great info, thanks! I have my best accurate square like you do.
My preciousssss
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Embarrassed to say - I had NO idea. Will check all my squares out tomorrow. Scary to think that my referential may not be referential. (Sorry, a little Crafsman there.) Mahalo. Aloha
People sometimes say to get a DIN 875 square or whatever but in my experience you have to get a calibrated/certified product otherwise the DIN rating means nothing. I think the days of being able to trust what is written on the side of a tool are largely a thing of the past sadly.
Thanks
Most machine shops have a calibration lab, every important measurement tool is sent there periodically to check against very carefully protected standards.
I have several Starrett squares, some over 60yrs old and EVERY one of them is DEAD ON 90. I have not bought other brands for a very long time and trust ALL of my squares. There are some tools you ALWAYS buy the good stuff because your squares will confirm EVERYTHING is square. I am 73 now and have never had an issue with ANY of my squares. Starrett and Mitutoyo ONLY. Spend the money on these tools. Stanleys top square was out 3 degrees. Stanley is carpentry tools whereas Starrett and Mitutoyo are ENGINEERING tools which require significantly higher accuracy.
I've picked up Starretts used in past (the ones I've given away) and only one didn't need a little work to make perfect. Steel is a wearing material. If you use it a lot you'll need to tune it up. Even Starrett tunes up their calibration machines.
Great video! Are you sure that workbench reference edge is perfectly straight?
So what type of square should be used for testing an edge against a face? Usually I use a machinist square or combination square, but is it just a by feel sort of thing for experienced woodworkers?
The small aluminum ones square up quite nicely with a hand plane as well. I suppose that sand paper fixed to glass would work as well.
seriously? handplane to metal?
@@carlospinheirotorres9499 hard steel blade to softer metal... very small amounts of material removed at once
@@douglashopkins8070 Thanks!
…“Precious of it” hahahahaha😂
What solution do you use for the chemical bath for the Starrett? I would like to try that on mine.
The bucket I use for carb cleaning. Had it since my 20's. "ChemTool?"
There are CARPENTRY tools and CABINETRY tools, and carpentry tools are NOT required to be really square because a 2x4 does not really care that much. Close is good. Cabinetry is entirely different and benefits from the accuracy that engineering tools give.
But if you can make them more accurate so easily what’s excuse no to?
One problem with some metal sliding squares is incompatible metals. I have seen a lot with steel rules but the body is aluminum or some other soft metal. BAD idea! The sliding of the steel rule will quickly wear down the adustment lands to nothing, at which point the tool is no longer fit for its purpose.
👌👌👌
00:33 Shawn - if there is one thing in the world, I know for *sure* : a square (whatever material) can _never ever_ be square. 'Square' is a theoretical value, that can never be reached in a materialistic world. It always boils down to: *Is it square enough* ?
23:00 One swipe with my angle grinder.. back in business.
And here I was thinking that I was the idiot who couldn't properly use a square! So it's not me, it's all my non-square, squares! Ugh!
How can you true up the INSIDE of one of those wooden squares - it would be useful to use it to check edges for square .... Your video has really opened a new perspective on squares - i use the line trick ALL the time to check my squares , but it hadn't dawned on me that what im checking is the INSIDE of the bottom portion and the OUTSIDE of the blade for square rather than the outside of both
Easily? Only when it’s made. As said in video that usually isn’t referenced.
@@wortheffort its important to have a square that has the inside angle a perfect right angle though to check the edges of boards when jointing them - there you would be using the inside angle of the square
@@darrylportelli not necessary. Just get them complimentary.
@@wortheffort what about something like shooting ends of boards to check for square - when i cut dovetails, i always check thoroughly if the ends are square with the edges and if they are square with the faces , that way it ensures that my joint will be square - how would you go about checking this ? Cheers just subscribed to your channel , SUPERB videos that really go down to the truth!!
@@darrylportelli I trust my plane is square. Doesn’t really matter if you go a mm long and plane back.
For the work I do I've never seen a square so out of whack it wasn't good enough. Like Jimmy Diresta says, If it looks square it is square. People don't run around with squares in their pockets checking things. Ef 'em if they do.
T-square adjustment. Build up the edge with strips of duct tape.
Let's go with the money no object, sounds like a machinist square might be an option. I don't want to retune my square I just want to know that it is to a smaller measurement in any discipline matters, that it is.
Where are the shirts ?????????????????????? Have a blessed day !
Are you asking about an order you placed?
@@wortheffort No, I've seen the shirts you wear, plane, hand drill etc. I thought you were selling them. I would like to order some. Thanks, Ed
@@dixon1959 They're on my website. wortheffort.com Thanks
123 blocks...
No squares are "square". There are only tolerances within being square.