The Pencils I NEVER thought I'd buy!~Holbein Artists' Colored Pencils
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 02. 2021
- I am finally trying the Holbein Artists' Colored Pencils (even though I never thought I would!) This video is not sponsored.
More info on these pencils:
Art haul video where I talk about getting these- • But wait, there's more...
Holbein Product page- www.holbein.co.jp/english/042...
My friend Harry’s review which has the lightfast chart in it! www.theartgearguide.com/home/h...
Awesome site for all colored pencil lightfast ratings: www.bestcoloredpencils.com/co...
Materials (affiliate)-
Holbein Colored Pencils- shrsl.com/2qept
Fluid Hot Pressed Watercolor Paper Block (6”x8”) amzn.to/3a2qOuZ
Odorless Mineral Spirits (OMS)- amzn.to/2OCnqi9
Water brush (for OMS)- amzn.to/3agKU4M
Wooden Stylus (for imprinting on the paper)- amzn.to/2Nm3hfq
Slice Ceramic Craft knife- amzn.to/3aiqdp6
Please note: Product links used in description are often affiliate links, this means I earn a small profit when someone uses my link to purchase a product. However, there is no additional charge to the person who is purchasing the product.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Music:
Song 1: "Club Fiesta- Habanero Man" provided through my video editing program Corel Video Studio x10.
Song 2: "Dreamland" by Aakash Gandhi provided through CZcams Audio Library.
Piano sound in the beginning is my own.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's be pals, find me on social media!!
Official website (New!) www.cautionartistatplay.com/
Instagram- / cautionartistatplay
Facebook- / cautionartistatplay
Twitter- / shanaroweart
My print site- shana-rowe.pixels.com/
I don't think I've ever seen such a gorgeous landscape drawing done in Colored pencil! You are incredibly skilled and patient. I can't believe how much detail you packed into this relatively small drawing.
Thank you so much Ramo!!
I found this review very useful and listened carefully to it. Then I went back and watched the landscape drawing process with the narration turned off and replaced with some light Japanese flute and koto music I use for not getting distracted when I write. Just watching the way you built that lovely rich sky and the gorgeously complex foliage, and the texture of the foreground road I could feel under my feet -- just amazing. Thank you!
Thank you! I'm so glad you liked the demonstration!
The holbein bomb dropping on the art community is a blast to experience. I absolutely love your drawing, it's so inspiring to see this while we still have a ton of snow and ice over here. And the foliage....it's so varied and interesting.
I'm considering the 24 or 36 set for some summer sketching. Do you think they would work together with the Derwent artist layered on top for small details?
Thank you, I'm glad you like my work! I don't have a ton of experience with the Derwent Artists, but I can see how the Holbeins would work well with other pencils in general. I love my 24 set and think it's a great set to start with.
I've been using Holbein Artist colored pencils as my main staple, along with all of the other Artist grade brands. I always have 2 new 150 sets in my studio at all times, but I buy mine straight from Japan. It is literally HALF the cost of the ones being sold at Blick. The 150 sets from Japan do fluctuate alittle bit, but they are usually 215$ to 245$... and that includes taxes, expedited Shipping, and international fees. With tax, the 150 sets are about 500$ after tax... THATS RIDICULOUS lol... but worth it, if you can afford it. The 150 set only has 12 - 1 star rated pencils ( not including the neons ) with the neons, 18 - 1 star pencils. I hear some people saying that these can't be trusted... I've tested all of them for 8 months, and their ratings are dead on. My friend, whom lives in the desert in Arizona... blasted these pencils in the desert sun ( where ASTM tests ) and left them out for months... they stand up to their ratings. Also, Holbein doesn't rely on human eye to rate their pencils. They use a super high tech computer system, that can spot the slightest of any change in color, fading or darkening.... that a human eye could never see.
Yes, I have since found out this information from Holbein and have reviewed a few more of their smaller sets. There does seem to be a lot of conflicting information out there, so I got information about how they do there lightfast testing from my contact at Holbein, which dispels a lot of the rumors.
Hey guys, it seems I have just been having the worst luck with audio the past couple weeks! Later on in the video when I do my voice-over, you may notice a static sound in the background. My fan on my laptop would not shut off the whole time I did my voice-over, I tried multiple voice-overs, and the fan just kept going on and off. I am sorry if it's distracting, I am aware, I did my best to fix it but it's still there. I'm sorry. I really wanted to get this video out because I'm excited about it. Hopefully next week I will have better luck with technology! I hope you enjoy this despite that nuisance lol.
Thank you for this review. I love my holbein pencils
Brilliant art work . Thank you so much. I picked up some great tips watching you work. 👍🏻🤗🥰
Thank you! I'm glad you found the video helpful! 💖
Fabulous review. Very informative. Beautiful demo. Thank you!
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it!
Great video. A superb landscape drawing, and I really enjoyed watching you build it up, while listening to your thoughts on the Holbeins. Very enjoyable.
Thank you so much Claudia! I'm happy you enjoyed it!
Awesome review Shana and gorgeous artwork as well
Thank you Harry!! 💗
Stunning work! Really beautiful! Thank you!💓🌞
Thank you so much!
Beautiful picture. Thank you for sharing for skills and professional assessment of the Holbein pencils. As you were talking about how you could use less layers, I was thinking that brings the material cost down in a way. If they last longer, that could go into your material cost calculation.
Again, beautiful picture.
Thank you, I'm glad you like my work! And yes, that's a great point on saving money by using less! Thanks for watching!
You draw so beautifully! It was lovely seeing you paint with odorless mineral spirits in a pen so naturally.
Unfortunately, I'm also an art supply fiend, so I'm DEFINITELY interested in getting this, despite loving my Polychromos pencils!
Thank you!! Its so hard to resist all the goodies out there, sorry for being a bad influence ans making you want more art supplies! Lol
Great review Shana!! Just found your channel now after Joseph's livestream. Have a lot to binge watch now!!! New subbie!!
Thank you!! Welcome aboard, I hope you enjoy my content!! 💗
I'm looking to grab a set of Holbein pencils myself. I'll most likely go with the 50 set as it has a good range of colors. Though, they did put some pastels in that set. I'll probably replace those with some of the other pencils in the range and keep those as spares, as I may also get their set of pastels as well. But, we'll see, with that. I may just stick with just the color pencils and use the pastels in that set if and when I need them. Yeah, the full 150 is a pricey proposition, for sure! I can get a set from Japan for $385, but out here in Australia they normally retail for $630 in the box. For the ones in the presentation wooden box...if you have to ask, you can't afford them!!!
The 50 set would be a great place to start! It's a good variety! As far as the wooden box set goes, I am not at all surprised. I have never bought a wooden box set of colored pencils in any of the brands I use because they are just always so expensive!
I really appreciated this review. You really worked with the pencils, did your research, and had good comparisons and commentary. Not a coloured pencil artist, but was still interested in seeing what you thought about the Holbein's.
Thank you Maria, I appreciate your feedback! Thank you for watching even though you don't work with colored pencils!
@@CautionArtistatPlay 🙂 Will always do my best to support your channel.
You're the best! 💗
New subdue here! I was blown away by your beautiful work! I do love all my Holbein pencils.
Thank you so much, welcome aboard! I love these pencils too, definitely a new fav of mine!!
Amazing work with just this set of 24!
Thank you!!
Thanks for the review! I've bought a few of the grey greens, they're lovely. The pencils seem extremely well-made, like Faber-Castell. Both cap the the ends, which looks very classy, but prevents you from seeing if the lead is centered. Just pointing that out. When buying Prismacolor in person from open stock, always check the end. If it's not centered, it will never sharpen properly.
Thanks for watching! Yes, I know what you mean. However, one plus side is, generally speaking, when the end is capped like that, it also usually indicates that the core is glued in place. So, if for some reason the core is off center and breaks within the casing, there is less chance of it falling out while sharpening. Which means less waste in the long run, unlike when a prismacolor breaks and parts of the core slide out of the casing.
Marvellous "tutorial" without words, especially after you popped the size of the image up. Still enjoying it and making little swatches of foliage effects based on your technique.
You are using a sort of engraving tool like a slant-tip scalpel with a white tip, to scrape and make fine lines. What is that called, and what's the tip made of? Is is ceramic? And where do you find them? I have used the tiny rounded point of a fine lace-making crochet hook for lines, but it isn't good for flat scraping like your tool is.
Hey there! I'm so glad you have been enjoying the video! The tool I was using is a ceramic craft knife, I have an affiliate link for where you can buy it, along with links for the other materials that I used, in the description of the video. 😊😊😊
Holbein makes fabulous, very high quality soft pastels and oil paints, and would trust their coloured pencils as well.
I agree, they make awesome supplies!
What a beautiful, vibrant and realistic landscape! I enjoyed watching you create this.
I bought the full set of Holbein pencils a few years ago but they were pretty much unused as I had two babies after that. I’m so glad to find such a useful and informative video on this brand - for some reason (maybe price?) they aren’t as commonly used as other brands and I was starting to wonder if I should have bought a different brand
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! They are fantastic pencils to work with! Hopefully, now that they are more readily available in the U.S. we will start seeing more people use them. I know that was one of my main hold backs to begin with.
@@CautionArtistatPlay Thank you for replying! It would be so great to see more people using them and making videos in the future!
I agree! I use them in almost every colored pencil piece that I do now!
@@CautionArtistatPlay That's really exciting! I will look out for more of your videos that feature them!
There will be more to come! I have a few others featuring these pencils up on the channel already! They can be found in my colored pencil playlist! czcams.com/play/PL2QyxD4oF_jU_ZtJTd73Hccy6RmD1onY_.html
I love the texture of the bushes and the perspective of the evergreen trees in your piece. I personally won't be buying these pencils because I know they're expensive and I don't work in colored pencil very often, so I wouldn't get my money's worth. I'm happy for you, though.
Thanks Sara! Yeah, I don't blame you. I wouldn't have spent the money on them either if I wasn't such a colored pencil fanatic lol.
My colored pencils are the 60 set Berol Prismacolors with the old school box and everything. I found them miraculously in a yard sale. So thanks to your review I will hold off on these and save up for the luminance instead.
You're welcome! That was a good yard sale find on your part! Lol. The Luminance are a great pencil, I'm sure you will love them! Thanks for watching!
@@CautionArtistatPlay No kidding, the yard sale prismacolors were $10.
I couldn't believe it.
Just found your channel accidentally at 3am. So glad. 🖤 You're awesome.
Thank you! 💖
Your work is fantastic!!!! I also wish Prismacolor would go back to the Barol formula. I have those old vintage ones too. My mother in law owned them and I got them when she passed. However, My Barol vintage Non-Photo Blue is so far off center, it breaks in any sharpener. I'll need to do it by hand. I bought all my Holbein open stock so far. Lightfastness matters to me. ;-) I found some Holbein open stock at a better price than Blick! Thanks so much for sharing. Holbein often gets a bad rap even in watercolor but those are wonderful!
I wish Prismacolor would go back to the old formula too! I really enjoy using the Holbein products, I have some of the watercolors too and they are wonderful to work with!
My word! I looked away for a split second here and there and the detail you added in that time was amazing!
Did your have the OMS in the water brush?
Thank you! Yes, I was using OMS in the waterbrush, it's super convenient and means that I don't have to have open containers of OMS laying around while I work!
Most of my colored pencils are still FC Polychromos( 60 set). I ordered a small 11 pencils set fron Holbein recently because I was pretty shocked by the tests I have seen of the 'Polychromos' whcih faded bigtime. I also have small sets of the Luminance and the "Lightfast'. Overal I think the latter 2 and Holbein laydown layers better. I will replace the FC pencils overtime because of the lightfastness test..I just don't trust the Polychromo's anymore..I was a bit sceptic on Holbeins colors and performance but I love them!!
Yeah, the Holbein are beautiful! I find myself reaching for the Holbein and Derwent Lightfast the most now.
Holbein has the prettiest and brightest color palette including 2 whites and 2 blacks: white and soft white, and black and lamp black. The soft white and the lamp black are the more opaque. Did you try the soft white against the Derwent Chinese white? You might like it better.
Yes, I have since tried the soft white, it's a great pencil! Not sure if I like it better than the Derwent Chinese white, but it's up there on my list of favorite white pencils.
This is absolutely stunning!!! Loved your review & personality! I can’t believe how you were able to just jump right in like that and create such a stunning piece!!! It really is so beautiful!
May I ask, do you feel that these are your absolute favourite pencils to use still?
Thank you so incredibly much again 😊
Hi Paige, Thank you so much!! I do find myself reaching for these pencils regularly now when I work, so they are definitely among my top favorites!
@@CautionArtistatPlay thank you so incredibly much!!!! May I ask, do you find them more enjoyable to use than the Derwent lightfast and or luminance? Incredibly sorry for the questions!
I use them equally to the Lightfast and more than the Luminance. But they are all fantastic pencils!
@@CautionArtistatPlay thank you so incredibly much!!! And I’m so sorry, but do these keep a sharp point longer than the lightfast do you think?
I also heard someone mention they had ‘ wax bloom ‘ with these… but I’m not sure what they were talking about tbh… sounds odd? Perhaps they jumbled their pencils?!🧐
And HAPPEN NEW YEAR!! I hope you have an absolutely incredible year ahead !! And seriously thank you so incredibly much for all your help- so incredibly grateful
I think they keep a pretty good sharp point, especially for a pencil that blends super easily. I'm not sure which brand is better in that regard, I haven't noticed either brand wearing out too terribly bad. Happy New Year to you too! Happy to help!
WOW..stunning piece of art...your a talent to reckon with :-) )))
Thanks!! 😁
Polychromos white is good for preserving an area you want to keep white.
I have used it for that myself, but I'm not a fan of it for other applications.
Could you tell me what that big blue Staedtler pen/ink/? thing you used while working on the clouds? I've never seen that and would love to know what it is. Thank you!
Hi Desi! I think what you are referring to is my electric eraser. It's battery operated and works great with colored pencils!
It is possible to keep OMS in a watercolor brush? Thanks! super picture!
Thank you! Yes! I have been doing it for years because I hate having open containers of OMS in the studio while I work! Super convenient too!
Your drawing is beautifull..
Thank you!!
If the set you got came with white and not the soft white then this is why you'd be disappointed by it. The soft white is their most opaque which some say is better than prisma, it's very different to white.
Since getting these pencils I have tried the soft white as well. I ordered it open stock, it is a wonderful pencil!
You are a fantastic artist! Where can I purchase some of your pieces ? You can then buy your pencils- lol
Thank you for asking Callie!! I offer prints and merch at shana-rowe.pixels.com/. I am still in the process of setting up my shop where I will be selling originals and will be announcing it in a video when I get it all worked out!
Oh no! Block Has them now?? I’m in trouble…
Haha, that was my thought when I first found out!
I just ordered the pastel colors last night. I thought I’d just tip my toes in to start.
Fun! Yeah, that's why I only got the 24 set, I thought it would be a good variety to start off with and get the feel for them. I love them and just ordered some more colors open stock! I hope you like them!
@@CautionArtistatPlay I did check the lightfast ratings on the ones I got and most are two stars and some are three.
@@elizabethdelarosa9343 Oh good! I'm glad to hear it! I do find those colors pretty, I just don't use them often enough in my own work to warrant buying them. But I'm glad the ratings weren't too bad, I know with pastel colors in other brands it can be a hit or miss.
Por favor, como se llaman los lápices esos?
Gracias
Holbein Artists' Colored Pencils.
Me too never thought I'd buy these. Don't think that I'd buy them again
I like them and will be buying some more colors, but I won't be replacing any of my other brands with them.
Their soft white is even more opaque than the white they already have
Oh, that's exciting! I will have to keep that in mind when I order more pencils!
As of March 2021, Holbein pencil in soft white has been discontinued, according to dick b l I C K.
If you order from Amazon Japan for the whole set it's about half the cost even with duty fees and shipping costs.
Are the legit though? Lots of problems with Amazon for knock-off art supplies. Just beware. I got duped on some other high cost supplies from Amazon and nothing you can do about it.
@@TwistedArtdesigns definitely legit several other artists and friends have ordered. Especially since Holbein is actually a Japanese product your getting it directly from them. The currency exchange is what makes it cheaper.
I'm waiting to hear back from my contact at Holbein on this. I know that Amazon US isn't a legitimate distibuter of Holbein products, the only way it is legit is if you are buying from a 3rd party who is a legitimate distributor of theirs that happens to also sell some products on Amazon, such as Dick Blick. I don't know about Amazon Japan though, I suspect it's similar, but I am waiting for official word on that. I do know that as a company they have specific distributors and their US website lists their distributors if you are interested in seeing where you can buy them legitimately in the US. When I hear official word about Amazon Japan, I will let you know.
I am trying to tell myself i DONT need these. I have Prismas & Polychromos already buuuut the pastel tones are calling to me n i must get the whole set NOWWW 😂😭😭😭
Lol, they are great to work with!
New sub...appreciate your review and envy your skills👍
Thank you so much Richard! 😊
In real time, how long does a drawing with this much detail take with colored pencil?
Usually many hours. Upon checking my original video footage, it appears this one took around 4 hours give or take. But it was surprisingly and unusually fast. I tend to be a really quick worker in general, but even so, depending on size and detail, I have done works in the past that have taken over 20 hours. It's a slow medium. What could take me a couple of hours in acrylics might take a few days in colored pencil. It definitely takes patience lol.
I’m relatively new to colored pencil and what holds me back from creating more with them is that they can be a rather slow medium. Watching you created this beautiful landscape is very motivating to the possibilities of what can be done with them and how less time intensive they can be and still yield realistic results once skill sets are developed. I’ll keep working with them. Thank you for providing this inspiration.
I'm glad I could inspire you! It takes practice, but you will get there!
What is the liquid you are adding?
I'm using odorless mineral spirits to blend.
This is the lushest pencil review I've ever seen! 🤗 I am looking for pencils with white and pastel tones one can apply above dark layers. I heard claims to that end about Holbein. Very impractically you are too good at incorporating the whites...Have tried to put white on dark? My "Pencil-Unicorn" would allow me to put reflections and spray on water scapes. I know one can start with whites on coloured cardboard with fine tooth, but I feel most "at home" on white paper. My other question how big is the difference between normal and electric eraser? This is the first time I hear such a thing exits! ...Oh, Incidentally: A few months ago I purchased Faber Castell's 120 pencil set and, ...well, you know...🙄....
Thank you! So, as far as the white goes in this brand, it is top notch. It's pretty comparable to the Derwent Drawing Chinese white which has been my go-to white for years. So if you are going for a good opaque white pencil I would go with Holbein or the Derwent Drawing. That being said, it is notoriously hard to get a light color over a dark color in colored pencil, so it does still require a bit of planning ahead of time, such as fewer layers of your darker color where you plan to put your highlights, or if possible leaving it blank. You want there to be enough tooth of the paper still to catch the white pencil. Pencils tend to blend with the layers below them too, so that's another reason not to have to many layers below where you aim to put your white. You can also erase or scrape some layers away before adding the white. If the pencils are not enough I recommend the Brush and Pencil touch up texture and titanium white powder mixed together almost like a paint, it's archival and is made to be used with colored pencil unlike gouache, acrylic and gel pen which can chip off over time.
As far as the electric eraser, it can take a bit of getting used to, but was a game changer for me. This and the faber-castell precision eraser which comes in the form of a pencil that you can sharpen are my go-to erasers. Tombow mono erasers are great too for fine detail. I hope this helps!
@@CautionArtistatPlay Thank you! 💐 Your response is very helpful to me! I started 40 years ago with abstrakt "painting" i.e. I "painted" with first graphite pencil and then coloured pencil: "Goldfaber 4100" these were especially hard, comparable to Graphite HB to H! With those you could make 20 to a 100 if not hundreds of layers in cross hatch! I had no drawing skills other than curiosity, enthusiasm and a strategy/concept of following where the pen "lead". When at a certain point I wanted more control over the directions of my drawings and developed an interest for realistic drawing, Goldfaber was no longer available and Polychromos was the only game in town! Since then I have to deal with too many corrections leading to a surface that no longer allows for the completion of the drawing! I experimented with all kinds of media (Acrylic-, oil-, watercolour, gouache, pastel, ...and the rest...) and worked on my realistic drawing skills with nanometer steps but also constant improvement. Over all these years graphite and coloured pencils remained the medium I love and always come back to! Despite the fact that the subject that I try to get a grip on, is water, specifically the waves, I can't bring myself to media like Acrylic, or gouache or oil, which would be ideal! So I am very grateful for your kind response! And I understand, that, no matter how much better Holbein's light tones and white behave, it still requires drawing techniques! That's why I focused the last two decades on my drawing skills. 🙄😑🙄 ...Yes...😎
I think that's how most of us got into art, curiosity and enthusiasm! Heck, I have been at it most my life and those two things are still what drives me to create! I go back and forth with mediums a lot, but I think colored pencil and acrylics are my two favorites. Very different mediums, but I both keep me engaged. I just go with whatever excites me at the moment. Thanks for sharing your experiences with me, I love learning about other people's art journeys!
@@CautionArtistatPlay Yes! I went to school from 1969 to 1983. Many of my teachers had experienced the 1968 student protest movement and Woodstock in their 20s - 30s. My art schooling was strongly informed by an aspiration of making students aware of their place in life as a humanity of selfexpression and their lifes as an opportunity to explore themselves and the world around them, with their individual means and likes. Technically the curriculum consisted of the techniques from classical modernity: The techniques of Paul Klee (combine media not ment to be combined) Matisse (painted paper collages) Surealits (photo collage), etc. That imbued me with an art concept that considers the act of manipulation of material surroundings in a directed manner meaningful to oneself, as art. This allows for Jackson Polloks drip painting, in his conscious decision to contradict the representation of real objects, to be considered as art (and I love his number 31 ;-) This education enabled me to give me license to embark on my art journey with a skill level, a traditional would have deemed unacceptable and hopeless! I am deeply convinced that besides kindness, decency, self-confidence, a good art education is among the most important things schools can offer to their students!
Wow, you went to school during some interesting times! Oh yes, I agree, and though my art education was a bit different in that I went during a different time (I went 10 years after I graduated high school and I just graduated last year) I learned a lot of similar ideas. Of course my schooling was also shaped by current events in the fact that Covid hit at the end of my senior year and changed everything. It's hard to be an art student and not be able to physically go to studio classes, it was interesting for sure. I studied Pollock for one of my art history projects and I learned so much, I had to do a video on it too, I believe I posted it here on CZcams. It's really amazing how many doors he and his contemporaries, and of course those who came before them, opened up for artists in the realm of freedom of expression. I think we live in a great time where anyone can create however they like and still get some form of recognition because our artist forefathers paved the way for us.
This is more for drawing ?
.. for coloring they do not keep a sharp point .. have to sharpen more than the prismacolor. Is it the same for drawing ?
I haven't noticed that issue with them personally while drawing or filling in what I have drawn, so I'm not sure honestly.
@@CautionArtistatPlay thank you :) I think you use fewer pencils leads for drawing than coloring. These are perfect for you !
Well, I wouldn't exactly say that. The process, after getting the preliminary sketch done, is similar to coloring. I am coloring when I am filling everything in. I think it has more to do with individual technique, such as using light layers and not burnishing until the very end which saves on the pencil lead. The same could be done while doing a coloring page, its just down to preference. But I am doing lots of layers and not being heavy handed, while still filling up just as much space on the paper as I would if I were doing a coloring page.
@@CautionArtistatPlay ok i understand! You use the layer on layer coloring technique and not the press coloring technique. Your technique fit perfectly with oil based pencils.
I prefer also to use the layer on layer technique . The result looks less heavy.
Thank you for your explanation :)
No problem! Thank you for watching! 💖
With pencil, this is the most detailed nature scenary drawing.
Thank you!
As to lightfastness it is somewhat debatable as the don't use astm or blue wool scales. They use their own in house techniques which are not disclosed so it depends how much you trust them. I personally wouldn't trust them as they really could claim anything if they are not using recognised international standards.
Their lightfast testing has been disclosed recently. Since this review I have done a series of reviews on their 3 sets of 12 pencils. While I was doing those reviews there was some confusion about lightfast testing within the art community and I reached out to a contact person at Holbein. They sent me the lightfast testing and explained how it's done. I talk about it in my series about the 12 sets. Jane Bush also addresses it in a video. I have also heard that they are now sending this information out with new sets.
Here is the video where I share Holbein's official statement on Lightfast testing: czcams.com/video/Cy72lPH69z0/video.html
If you keep praising them in this manner, they might just send you a full set for free!
Haha, it's funny you say that! After I filmed this video a few years ago, Holbein got in touch with me, and we have developed a great relationship. I'm now a brand ambassador for them and teach workshops about their products!
I won't buy it. if someone give me as a gift I probably won't very happy... really prefer other brand. too expensive and little use