The TRUTH About HOLBEIN COLORED PENCILS Lightfastness Testing! (PROOF)
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2021
- Hi Artists! I have an informative video today about holbein colored pencils and some PROOF of the the company's lightfastness test methods. I had been seeing some confusion and misinfomation about holbein pencils in regards to lightfastness, and I thought I'd reach out to the company to get some truth about how they test their colored pencils. The owners of HK Holbein, Inc and its headquarters in Osaka, Japan got together to send an official statement about their lightfast testing methods. This is not just in regards to their colored pencils but all 16 color lines of the company. I think you'll be interested in the precise steps they take to ensure their colored pencils and other art supplies not only meet but exceed industry standards! Their first step is to gather all the pencils/specimens. Second step is they use a Weather-O-Meter to expose the pencils to the Xenon Arc to simulate UV aging of years and decades in a short amount of time. Third step is they use a spectrophotometer to take those specimens and quantify numberically and physically the differences within the results UV aging from the weather-o-meter. Their final step is to take those results and cross reference using the ASTM D6901 industry standards.
This is very important to get to the truth of the matter when it comes to art supply companies and their methods. I actually called up the company to ask about getting an official statement written, and they did! Question everything you see and read, and even me! Sometimes we don't always have the corrrect information, and that's why I wanted to make sure this came from the horse's mouth. Out of the 150 Holbein Colored Pencils, I only found 12 to be fugitive colors, not including the 6 neon colors! The majority of the 12 colors were some of my favorites and favorites of many: the holbein pastel colored pencils. I hope this clears up any confusion or misinformation.
Disclaimer: I am not paid by Holbein or HK Holbein to say anything in regards to their products. I'm simply passionate about the high quality products they offer.
Check out my Holbein Colored Pencil
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SOURCES/LINKS TO CHECK OUT:
Holbein’s Official US website:
www.holbeinartistmaterials.com
How does a Spectrophotometer work?
• Demystifying the Scien...
Colored Pencil Manufacturers Use Spectrophotometers to Achieve Consistent Colors:
blog.hunterlab.com/blog/color...
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Xenon Test Chamber/UV testing:
• Xenon Test Chamber/wea...
Atlas Ci4400 weather-o-meter
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Wonderful World Of Colored Pencils!
• Wonderful World Of Col...
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#holbeincoloredpencils #holbein #lightfast #coloredpencils - Jak na to + styl
I wanted to get the straight story, so I called up Holbein and asked for documentation on their lightfast testing for colored pencils. Please take note that this lightfast testing process is the method they use for all 16 color lines across their brand. What do you think of these pencils?
I find it funny that the mentioned negative professional artist review pretty much dismissed Holbein as a company just because they didn't respect her clout as a larger CZcamsr. That to me is very unprofessional. I'll go with facts and numbers, thanks. You are awesome.
I felt some inner distaste towards non western countries in that assessment. First with prismacolor being Mexican, and now Holbein being Japanese.
@@dreamrabbits5072 Oh please! You’re going to see whatever you want. She didn’t come off as having a distaste for other countries, she just mention a fact that Prismacolor now manufactures their pencils in Mexico. It’s her opinion the quality has gone downhill since then. She isn’t alone in that opinion. I love Prismacolor and I’m not flipping out cause she no longer likes them. Furthermore, she never mentioned to Holbein that she was a CZcamsr. She approached them the same as any one of us would and they were evasive with her inquiries. She actually felt since she didn’t mention that they treated her poorly. She stated this in one of her recent videos.
Actually it was "just because" the person who she was interacting with appeared to be giving her the go-by. That would leave me bitter too but I have a feeling you didn't watch the whole thing because she still enjoyed the pencils, her issue seemed to be mostly around her interaction with CS. When you're not getting the clarification you've asked for multiple times, it's going to start feeling like they're deliberately not giving it to you. Jane did a really good job with this video and clearing things up, which was obviously needed.
Jane, I TRULY appreciate this video! While I love my Holbeins and no amount of snobby artist review is going to change my mind (I am a hobbyist, and I don't sell my work), but I want my children and grandchildren to enjoy my art in the days ahead when I might not be around to touch it up. lol Anyway I actually emailed Holbein and did not receive a response but DID reach out to two different artists from JAPAN that use Holbein and one actually is a board member of Colored Pencil Society of America and she did her own lightfast testing of Holbein. She found that Holbein was about 60% lightfast but they are very honest with the ones that are less lightfast like their pastels and their stars are more or less accurate. She mainly works with Luminance now because she DOES sell her work (upwards 4K a commission) so lightfast is super important but even she said that she found Holbein to be MORE lightfast than Poly Chromos which has ALL the fancy tests behind its name. I don't have a release to tell you who I spoke with but the truth is since she told me this I have felt VERY confident using Holbein. I like Poly Chromos so no diss on them but I LOVE my Holbein and I am happy to know now that I can start my projects with them and mix them with my Luminance and Lightfast pencils and feel they will hopefully last in the days ahead. You rock girl! Thank you for the effort it took to do this!
Wow! I was wondering about how they compared in comparison of lightfastness to Polychromos, so this is interesting news! Thank you for the support and I’m happy to get the truth out there for everyone. Sometimes emailing doesn’t always do the trick since I’m sure they get plenty, so that’s why I called them. I love that the CPSA has an artist that loves and uses Holbein. That’s a great sign of their validity ☺️ I feel the formula isn’t quite like anything.
That's fascinating if it's accurate compared to polychromos however going off of percentage of total percentage of lightfastness without taking into account that holbein has a large amount more total pencils in their line than polychromos, is usually skewed.
I'm glad this was posted. I have seen some unflattering reviews lately on YT about these pencils. I am glad you set the record straight.
Thank you! I’m happy to have put the truth out there for everyone and Holbein were awesome about it as well. I’m happy folks don’t have to worry now about using these pencils in art no matter what the purpose is. ♥️
I agree with Scarlet - thank you so much for doing this and for providing the documentation and the links. Like you, I am a big fan of Holbein as a brand, but I was feeling sort of shamed by a bunch of the recent condemning videos. This makes a lot of sense, and I hope that other people will view this video and see the information. This gives me great comfort. I know the Holbeins aren't for everyone, but I like them (apart from the core breakage issues which I have with my set). Thanks for this and for your videos in general.
You’re welcome, Jennifer, and thank you! I really appreciate it! Never feel ashamed for your preference in colored pencils. It’s all so personal, you know? I never doubted the pencils were not lightfast, but I had to clear up the confusion because things can get muddy fast when the wrong info is out there. Take care!
@@ArtistJane same here. I never doubted it. They are over 100 years old as a company snd don't even make supplies for student grade. From the get go it was all geared for professionell artists.
Hey Jane I recommend becoming a member of the colored pencil society they have done there own lightfast tests on the colored pencils and there testing significantly contradicts holbeins. Unfortunately, there testing shows almost 1/3 of the pencils to have poor lightfast :( which stinks because i love holbeins colored pencils.
Excellent vid. And timely/relevant info. The countless professional artists who’ve been using Holbein products all these years can’t all be wrong! So glad the Holbein rep you contacted took this seriously and provided you with credible documentation. I will continue to sigh/drool over their products as I save my $ to purchase some. ❤️
You did a great job explaining Holbein's Lightfast testing. I especially liked how you found all the pics of the machines. 👍😊
Thank you! It was fun creating this video.
Thank you so much for this! I'm actually doing a video about these this week, so I'll link to your video and research you've done. This is so helpful to finally have in writing.
Oh thank you so much! It’s definitely a relief and I appreciate the link to my video in advance. I love you and your channel btw!
Thank you! This is so helpful. I was going to buy a set of Holbein coloured pencils after testing a couple of open-stock colours I bought, but then saw so many negative reviews regarding the whole lightfastness issue that I thought I should maybe avoid Holbein forever.
I'm soooo relieved to see your review, and can now happily trot down to my local art store today to pick up a set (20% off an already great price!). 😊
Great video. I appreciate the research and reaching out that you have done to set the record straight. These are my favorite colored pencils.
I am beyond excited to hear this ! I love these pencils so much
This is really helpful, thank you. I love the few Holbein pastels pencils that I have, and even though aware of the negative comments still decided to go ahead and order the full set. They really remind me so much of my much loved, though now shrinking, original Berol coloured pencils . It’s so lovely to now have this additional information. I’ll still enjoy using the other pencils, especially the Inktense, but think these will be my go to pencils in future.
First time viewer here. I was looking for this exact information. This was a fantastic video. Thank you. Subscribing!
You’re welcome! Thank you for subscribing and welcome to the community here! I have new videos on fridays usually and live streams on sundays usually.
Thank you for the video I absolutely love my Holbein Pencils and as many in the community know I am horrible with full set syndrome and a addiction to coloured pencils but these were one of my first "" Artist grade "" pencils and even though I colour for me and the channel I dont sell my work or hang it in the sun so I wasn't to worried about it for myself but more for the information I was giving my followers so THANK YOU for clearing that up 💖😊
Thanks very much, Jane! I have observed that many of those who give unflattering reviews usually have an issue with the cost. They feel that the price should justify their expectations of quality. But the truth is, it costs a lot more depending on where one is located and from where one made their purchase. It did not cost me too much because I'm in Asia and ordered them directly from Amazon Japan. (per pencil 40 US cents more than Polychromos) I appreciate what you have shared in this video, thank you!
Thanks a million for this as I can’t find anything about the lightfastness of their gouache! Well done love your work❤
Thank you for setting the record straight. Holbein seems to be like such a reputable company. I love using their products. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for posting! Currently I have too many pencils, but if I see some on sale or someone is asking for gift suggestions, I will be asking for these😊
Too many pencils? I completely relate! Haha - I can bet you will enjoy them!
Wonderful and useful video. I'm glad I found this. I would love to give them a go.
Thanks for this video -I knew Holbein had been around for years I didn't know it was that long. But I felt that being the reputable company they are, the negative videos I've seen about the lightfastness were not accurate - it was someone's opinion. Anyway, thanks for the info!
You’re welcome! That’s exactly it - it’s an opinion. I did my best to just stick to facts, and even though I do express my passion for the pencils and company, at the end of the day if someone doesn’t like them that’s ok. Choices in art supplies are truly personal.
I appreciate the information even though I don’t use Holbein pencils. If I were just only using these in coloring that would be fine but I have preferred other brands and developed a technique for their use . I did try to incorporate Holbein with my other pencils and they didn’t play well together and it felt very much like slick oil in that area. So to me whatever one wants to use is fine. I am sure the world will continue to move forward and there are so many products that it’s wonderful. Glad to hear straight from Japan on the ASTM rating apparently there was some confusion in the US. It was worth dealing with them. I use about 3 Holbein watercolors and white gouache in my art. Their gouache rocks.
Tech and art combined - a perfect video! Thanks 😊.
I don't own any holbein supplies but I think I might try some. 😊
Thank you! I definitely recommend them!
Thank you for this! Seeing this reassured me in my gut feeling and the 150 set is now acquired! Arrived this morning and I’m still all giddy. What a beautiful set it is and the pencils are so smooth to work with. Something that raised an eyebrow though is that a lot of my pencils are bent or warped🤔 Nothing you can notice baby looking at them but they don’t roll freely and are kinda wobbly. Is this something to be expected with pencils or do you think a call to the vendor is warranted?
Good to hear. I figured the tested them as they've been a trusted art product manufacturer for so long. I can't afford a 'set" (even of 50) and the smaller sets always give me colors I don't use. I do pets and wildlife (I throw in a lot of color on the later). What are some of
Great news. I love colouring. I just got the 50 pastel pencils which I love so makes me better about buying the 150 set
Thanks for doing this Jane, I really appreciate you doing this. I love my Holbein colored pencils (the ones I have...lol) I'm still holding out waiting for Blick to have the complete set when I go to order it. Take care.
You’re welcome, Michelle! I hope you are feeling ok. I’ve been on little flares lately. I hope you get that full set soon! You’ll love it.
Hi Michelle. Check out Amazon Japan. You can order through them if you have Amazon account. There are no extra charges for using Amazon Japan or hidden costs. I have ordered from them and haven't had any issues
I was worried for a sec that it would be "drama" or "bad news" and I'm very glad it's positive stuff! I love Holbein a lot, their colored pencils are awesome! It would've hurt if they had turned out to be dodgy 😅😭😨
Thank you for your video ! I have check on the Holbein site and it says “conform to ASTM D 4236” not “D6901” it is frustrating :/
What pencil sharpener do you recommend
Out here in Australia, a set of 150 Holbein's set you back $630. A set of 50, $210. I'm tempted to get a set of 50. Though, for lightfast pencils I go with the Derwent Lightfast pencils.
Well done Jane! In regards to the snobby video review everyone is referring to, I wanted to start a drinking game with every time she said, "I'm a professional artist." Man, the drama in that video was a bit too much. I rarely watch that CZcams channel anyway.
But you did understand that she is a professional artist, right? Just want to make sure that you got that. 😉
@@justacatwhocantype LOL
I also watched "that" video. This lady artist's video was 80% drama and bitch'n about lightfastness and making sure the viewer got that she was a "professional artist" and 20% about how the pencils actually performed,
She's a Karen 😂😂
Thank you so much Jane for setting the record straight. I have not tried Holbein yet but have been thinking about those pastels for some time now. I can feel confident should I decide to get some or all. Full set syndrome is real after all. 😉
You’re welcome! I have full set syndrome full tilt!
@@ArtistJane I have found several artists that share this condition/affliction so I don’t feel so alone. 🤗😂🤣😂
You had me at the Trapper Keeper videos, but this was the icing on the cake! I just love "truth of" exposés! But seriously, it's remarkable that you went to the lengths you did to put this important information piece together. Crazy! I actually have a Weather-O-Meter... it's my window at home! lol! That's how I always did lightfast testing. But, this hi-tech machine is something out of Weird Science and makes me giddy to think about all the stuff I could shove in there! I would expect eventual results where a fly gets inside and all kinds of sci-fi hijinx ensue! :O But again, seriously, this was outrageously interesting. On a side-note, the mid-roll of the video was annoying and broke right into your dialogue, mid-sentence. Just an fyi. Thanks for sharing this info and all the legwork you put into it! Well done, as always! Cheers! Hoping all is well! ~ Mark
Well thank you, Mark! Trapper keepers are back and I’ve got the scoop on these pencils! Oh and thank you for the heads up on the mid roll. I think I fixed it and placed it later in the video after step 3 after a sentence. I didn’t realize I cut myself off but I realized it was too early anyways! Yep, a weather-o-meter would be an interesting piece of machinery! I’m quite interested in the science behind it, but I’m also a science fiction gal, so I’d be like “let’s make a time machine out of it” 🧐🤪
Thank you Jane, and thank you Holbein for this helpful and wonderfully informative video.
You're welcome! I'm happy I could help in clearing up any mystery about these pencils and give some answers!
Thank you for posting this but I'm not sure why it's so hard to find their lightfast information. I think because it is not plastered on the packaging like most other artist pencils/products are people (including myself) assume that they are not lightfast. However even when they were contacted by email, they did not come right out and say they used ASTM standards but "their own proprietary testing method". I have a few of these pencils I got in a subscription box and actually really enjoyed using them, and now can actually consider buying more of them (maybe if their on sale).
I’m not sure why it was previously hard to but I’m sure this statement and method of testing is what they meant by proprietary but are also meeting ASTM standards. I hope you enjoy them. While they are expensive, I find them to be worth the $.
I thought that "proprietary" usually meant secret, like Krusty Krab's secret recipe, or KFC's secret blend of spices, weird that now they are divulging their secret method. Maybe they were getting pushback and didn't want to lose out on the US market
@@recoveringsoul755 That's what I though too, but I think your right that so many people started to question their methods that it pushed them to be more public about it.
I think that's my confusion. Holbein US is telling people they don't use ASTM but in house testing and that's creating some confusion. Great video though. The Lightfast was only one of the issues I had but these just aren't pencils for me regardless (doesn't meant others can't like them of course). Did they perhaps talk about why their US reps are telling artists they don't use ASTM? I think that could clear up a lot of issues. Lachri Fine Arts even asked them how they tested and they said they don't use ASTM but an in house system so that's creating a lot of issues among artists.
I pretty much figured this statement would clear up that issue. I'm not sure why that person said they don't use ASTM when they're using ASTM cross referencing. Perhaps what that person meant is that they don't do the exact testing method that the ASTM guidelines or blue wool. Since the spectrophotometer can measure both numerically and physically the differences in those numbers instead just a physical measure like blue wool does.
@@ArtistJane possible. Have you seen Lachri Fine Arts video on this? Her email correspondence was pretty odd with the company not disclosing anything and then saying they don't use ASTM. So that I think makes it hard when they're so weird about transparency. I think they really need to put it on the box or on bold on their site and just make it super clear.
Well, there’s a site revamp happening this year, so hopefully that info will be on the website when that happens. Yes, I’ve seen it. This is about as transparent as it gets. It just needs to be out there to the general public. I also got a kick out of your review with mentioning having “full set syndrome” because I have it too!
@@ArtistJane full set syndrome is real! And dangerous lol
As far as I understand it, Holbein US is a completely separate company which simply has the right to sell Holbein products within the US but doesn't have anything to do with the manufacturing of said items, maybe that's where the confusion has arisen?
I think there's a lot of confusion, possibly rooted in ignorance of the brand, about Holbein and people don't actually realise they're a well-respected artist quality brand producing world class watercolours etc for more than a century.
I've heard people say "I don't know any artists who use them" when they probably mean "I don't know any white, Western artists" because they're a brand leader in the Japanese and Asian market :D
Very helpful content. I hope your efforts will show Holbein that a lot of us want access to this information. Now I have questions about that ASTM seal that is on Luminance and Lightfast pencils…why do they have the seal and Holbein does not?
The ASTM seal is to guarantee that all the colored pencils are about nearly 100% lightfastness. This is also when a company pays for their colored pencils to be shipped to Arizona where it’s tested by the CPSA. It’s not mandatory to do this and Holbein does their own independent testing. It doesn’t mean they aren’t lightfast in general; they just don’t have that seal. Lightfast pencils and Luminance pencils are the most lightfastness per pencil in each set. Derwent lightfast pencils are 100% lightfast and Luminance are a close second. Neither of those sets have any fugitive colors, so in that respect, it’s the same reason why Polychromos does not have a seal on their tin either.
FYI the Xenon Arc test indicated in this video is only half of the testing required for ASTM certification - standard daylight test is not undertaken. Also, you need to have all pencils pass the test and Holbein would not be able to achieve this.
So what did those ratings mean? I heard on one channel it was that each star was the equivalent of about 25 years.
So I guess they're saying that 3 stars is 75 years+?
Also, how do these pencils blend with other brands? I've heard some say they don't play nice with other brands. I have Polychromos, Luminous, and Derwent Lightfast.
Thanks for the info!
Now I have to buy one to see if they are to my liking.
I wonder if this has changed/been further tested or made transparent etc. just recently now that their open stock at Jackson's and Jackson's site states each and every pencils individual lightfastness etc. They don't usually put anything if they're not certain and confident in what there stating to customers (usually). I think I'll have to ask them.
Excellent!
Thanks Jane! Really appreciate you following up on this point and getting some clarity. The CPSA lightfast test results (which have some limitations) did not fully support all of Holbein’s own ratings, but this is also the case for other high quality and trusted brands.
It is surprising though that if Holbein are using the ASTM D6901 standard and spending the money on the xenon arc testing, that they aren’t advertising this, particularly given their price point and if they want to compete with CD Luminance and Derwent Lightfast. For now, I find their price point is too high.
You're welcome and thank you! :) Is there a document from CPSA that states they didn't fully support all of Holbein's ratings? It would interesting to read that. Either way, I feel like the pencils speak for themselves and really it comes down to preference with people, but lightfastness is a big deal for many artists, especially if you want to sell your work. That's why I wanted to talk with the company on the phone and talk to the owners about it. I figured there's enough mystery behind it, so hopefully this will help.
@@ArtistJane yes, it’s brilliant that you’ve gotten this straight from the horse’s mouth! They are a very high quality brand and some of the recent disparaging comments seemed unfair. I only have their 12 pastel pencil set which a colleague got for me directly from Japan, so can’t say much about them other than the build is great and they have a unique feel and laydown. I do find the pricing problematic though as they are pitched higher than some of the most highly regarded brands, but there was a lack of assurance about their lightfast ratings and testing methods for those wanting to use it to sell original artwork.
You need to be a CPSA member to get a hands on their lightfast testing results. The details are for members only and so I can’t comment further. I joined this year mostly to get my hands on this as I find the topic of lightfastness really interesting. I have a copy of the ASTM D6901 standard (and some other art materials standards) and have done a lot of reading on the topic - one of the advantages of having access to a university library!
You’ve done a great job explaining and showing some of the machinery used in the testing. I hadn’t seen what the weather-o-meter looks like. So thank you again, I learned some new things!
@@ArtistJane just re-reading the ASTM D6901 standard and it’s likely that Holbein can’t fully conform because it is an American standard that requires two tests - one is natural light exposure and the second is the xenon arc test. The lightfast rating is then based on the lower of the two outcomes; some pigments will fade differently in each environment.
For the natural light exposure, it specifically requires exposure of the “specimens during the months from September through May in an Arizona test site in a window glass covered Black Box containing a small fan to circulate the air.” Because of this testing location requirement in Arizona, it probably puts overseas-based companies, like Holbein at a certain disadvantage.
So, I am speculating that this is why their own ‘proprietary’ test results are used, which includes the xenon arc test component that accords with ASTM D6901.
Ok this is great information, and I’ll have to join the CPSA because I was actually looking at the benefits of being a member and it sounds awesome. There might be a disadvantage there since the company originated in Japan and their testing site is in Arizona. That’s a great point. It sounds like the natural light exposure test is a lot like the blue wool test.
@@ArtistJane it actually uses a series of other standards to do the daylight tests - ASTM G24 explains the method for exposure to daylight filtered through glass, and then ASTM D2244 explains the method for the measurement of the colour changes which is done using a scientific instrument (the spectrometer) rather than via a more subjective visual comparison like the blue wool test which is against a control sample with a known fading pattern. Both the xenon arc and daylight exposures for D6901 use the same D2244 measurement standard to compare the shift in colour using a spectrometer.
I’m not really sure why the D6901 standard requires the daylight tests to be conducted in Arizona - it may offer more consistent light, heat and humidity. There are some comments at the end of the standard mentioning some tests done in both Arizona and Florida and it seems like humidity was an issue with the latter. It also seems like they chose the autumn and winter months (Sep-May) because summer heat caused other issues.
Would need to find out from actual experts about the reasons why Arizona and whether this impacts on a company’s ability to claim conformance to D6901 if they don’t test there (I am just guessing this is the case given the location is specified in the testing method).
The dual testing method in D6901 makes allowances for certain pigments that fade differently in the xenon arc vs natural daylight. They can only take the worst outcome of both tests to confirm the rating of a pencil.
Wonderful!!! TY
Hi Jane, I there anywhere where Holbein published that explanation with the ASTM test and standards? Can I download that anywhere or was that something exclusive to you?
It was sent exclusively to me. However, their website is going to be revamped apparently this year, so they may include that info in the update.
Thank you for this. I love my Holbein colored pencils. I have had a couple of drawings posted on my wall for over a year and bright as ever. Thank you for the tips. And so glad I found a southpaw artist
You’re welcome! And welcome!
Jane, do you know what the "OP"on the pencil imprit stand for?
I don’t. I can always ask though or you can contact them.
Very interesting! I use their watercolors but those have the exact pigment information right on the tube. I have yet to ever see actual pigment numbers indicating the pigment used on any brand of color pencil. I love Holbein watercolor and find the ones I have very lightfast from my own testing's. I am curious to try their pencils. I would do my own lightfast tests, like I do my watercolor. Good information! Thanks. I have arthritic hands and cannot use lots of pressure. Its even hard sometimes to draw anything any more. I love their Gouache too!
I completely understand about arthritis. I love colored pencils, but the pressure and time it takes to create a fully completed piece leaves me in pain. Watercolor is a great medium for arthritis! Their gouache is the absolute best!
@@ArtistJane I agree! I just got some Holbein color pencils in my mail, today that I ordered open stock. You are right, they are so soft and wonderful. I I picked out the highest lightfast ones after seeing with my own eyes the results of a lightfast testing from someone who personally swatched out the entire set and put them in sunlight exposure for a few months. Even most of the two star ones didn't show any change and only a few two stars did fade but just a little. Just as good as several other brands. AWESOME! Again, thanks so much for your video. I had been doing watercolor so long I wasn't feeling challenged by them anymore. Just wanted a new challenge. I seem to have more fun during the journey of learning new mediums.
If they do ASTM testing why don’t they provide each pencils resulting rating or better yet print it on each pencil rather than their rudimentary star rating system? Their star rating system is the cause of the confusion/doubt.
Thank you Jane!
You're welcome!
I seen someone review them recently and they were talking about how they couldn't get a straight answer about lightfastness. I wonder if they contacted a Japanese side of the company or something. They never did get a straight answer back.
If there is an industry standard, but Holbein uses a proprietary method and won't tell what it is to one artist, but explain their process to another artist, it seems shady.
@@recoveringsoul755 Artists like Lachri probably spoke to customer service. If you know anything about customer service, they usually don't know about every aspect of the company. And I think Lachri was talking to someone through e-mail or chat, whereas Jane phoned in and probably spoke to someone in a different department, or several people maybe and got transferred to a management sector. I don't know if you've ever worked for a company before with different levels of staff, but usually entry level people like customer service are not aware of all the details of the product. This is done in virtually every company in America and abroad, how many times have you called customer service and got different answers from different people? It happens all the time with phone companies for example, so can you imagine a company which operates from the other side of the world with different offices in different countries, and different languages, it doesn't mean it's shady.
Thank you, dream rabbits, for pointing this out. Who I spoke to is about the highest ranking person you can get in the US division, so the info I was given is on good authority. I can’t speak for Lisa’s experience. That was hers and hers alone, and I think it speaks more of her character than anything. I understand wires can get crossed, but there’s something else going on there. I’m not 100% right all the time either, but I do what I can get to get the right info before I broadcast it. At the end of the day, it’s just colored pencils.
@@dreamrabbits5072 yes I've called customer service before and it doesn't seem to exist anymore unless you spend days on the phone and finally get through to someone who has worked there for years and actually knows what they are doing. I've also worked in customer service and some take their jobs more seriously than others. I don't feel like rewatching a video I responded to 8 months ago so I'll just say that my comment still looks and reads like a legitimate statement. If there is an industry standard, everyone within that industry should adhere to that standard.
EXCELLENT!
Party on, dude.
@@ArtistJane “Put them into the Iron Maiden!” “Excellent!” “Execute them!” “Bogus!”
Jane-an update on this video- I just watched a video of unboxing of new Holbein's on a CZcamsr and Holbein has their ASTM results-and it confirms their inhouse testing...I feel like going to everyone's videos who poo poo their testing and say -THERE.
well this is awesome info, especially for geeky artists like me. i had no idea how lightfastness was determined. nice to know its not some backroom person pulling numbers from his/her butt! :p
😂 Yes, that’s definitely a good thing it’s not just random numbers being thrown around. I’m happy to have gotten the correct information out there!
I am getting very disappointed and unhappy with the lack of availability of the Holbein 150 colored pencil set in the US. I ordered through Blick art in March of 2021. It was on backorder at the time. They keep pushing the in stock date further out.? I love the pencils but they are still very hard to get. It seems to me like Blick or Holbein or both dosen't care about customer service. Covid virus is no longer an excuse it just comes down to poor customer service. Sorry but Very frustrated.
I would be frustrated too! That is frustrating! I wish I could help or had any info. I hope this gets resolved soon!
I had no idea that there's a bit of controversy regarding Holbein's colored pencils compared to their watercolor.
Is there controversy over their watercolor?
@@ArtistJane Not that I know of. Their watercolors have great reviews though.
I love my holbein pencils, the only reason I wish I didn’t is because they are so expensive, lol.
Well, it is good that you are defending the brand. I may have overheard it, but you only mentioned 12 colors with *-Rating, but I did not hear, how many of the 150 have the ***-Rating. So imho, that would be the relevant information.
I meant the ***-Rating :)
Wow, its deleting my *. LOL. Lets put it that way: 3-Star-Rating :D
This is relevant, and I should've put that in there. I'm looking to do a live stream soon on these, and we can talk about it then if you're interested.
At what point did Holbein apart testing in a way that satisfies the A T S M
To finish my question . When did Holbein start testing the 150 set of colored pencils according to the ATSM testing. I bought my set about two years ago. Were they tested or manufactured before the ATMS testing? I am a professional artist and need to know.
I don't have that information, but you can contact them on social media (they are especially active on Facebook). They typically will reply.
Just my 2 cents worth,
What concerns me the most is not only their lightfastness. All materials come exclusively from Japan (as they claim). Although Osaka (their 2 manufacturing bases) is reasonably far from Fukushima, it does not confirm whether any materials come from Fukushima. We know lots of woods from Fukushima is currently trading below the market price hence many mass producers use them. We had number of cases where non food items from Japan were rejected for import from number of countries when they were tested against radioactivity (eg number of made in Japan vehicles were rejected for radioactivity contamination). I think some of us still remember uranium blue incident from 70s and other where some color pigments carried radioactive substances and probably caused lots of cancer among artists and users.
We do work with pencils on extreme proximity and it does create lots of dusts etc, god know what would happen when you inhale tiny particles.
They should be tested for radioactive contamination before letting into US, EU or any other countries but unfortunately no data avail.
I will never use them as it has many serious questions hanging over them.
Do your own test.
Crap... hit send too quick. What are some of your favorite colors?
Tiger lily, strawberry, carnation, dandelion, burgundy, iris, ultra blue, cobalt, peacock blue, all of the pastels and neons, malachite green, violet, pansy, and spring green to name a few. How about you?
@@ArtistJane Ooooh...you answered. Thanks SO MUCH (now I can complete my order to Blick...lol)
@@ArtistJane I may not be able to get them all (I don't work with neons much) but I will get some of those. I've heard that there are many of the pastel colors that work very well as highlights in fur and feathers. I still haven't moved to doing people portraits. I just found art a couple of years back. Fell in love with CP, Pastel and Watercolor (have my hands full with those three...thanks again!)
If Holbein would have been honest in the first place and give this info to a regular customer they wouldn’t have landed themselves in the shit they where in. Why does it take you an known CZcamsr with a working relationship with Holbein to get this information. Why didn’t Matt who is supposed to sell those pencils know this information? How am I supposed to trust a company that in an email says the testing procedures are proprietary but when you call them you get a notified document with exactly what already was asked for in email?
Sounds like you should contact them with those questions.
Excellent!