Mathias, I love your use of good measuring devices and your accumulated knowledge. I never case to be fascinated and learn. Can't say enough thanks for your excellent work.
I think you nailed it near the end, apparently your motor speed is just very close to a harmonic in your saw..maybe changing the speed through a different drive sheave could help. Great video, it's inspiring that you continue to troubleshoot and show your logic for us all to follow, part of what makes your videos so enjoyable and great for other's to learn from!
Thank you for doing this video! You were so methodic about how to test and fix and had so many good ideas on how to cut down vibration. I think many of the things you did could translate pretty well into a lot of different machines. Great work I love your bandsaws!
My favorite video, not because the content was any better than your usual very good stuff, but how patient you were with your young assistant. She is your best "project " so far. Can we assume that someone who thinks two bandsaws are better than one , feels that same about assistants?
a suggestion, when balancing using bearings, pull the seals of the bearings and clean all the grease out of them. greased bearings add a lot of friction and make it really hard to figure out where the heavy spot is.
Excellent work Wendel, I've already built several machines and I know that Alignment and balancing is critical to good performance. Congratulations, your project was very good.
A possible remedy is to place fiber washers between the casters and the saw. (Have seen them used under clothes dryers before.)My reasoning is if the casters dampen the vibration the saw resonates, a little bit more cushioning might dampen it more. Here in Greenville, SC, a 100 year old supply company survived selling 3M fiberglass reinforced rubber pads to go under heavy textile machinery. Machines which vibrated like pea thrashers.(They repackaged the product and obliterated all 3M trademarks. That way, their competitors were unable to source it, and undercut their 300% markups.) Internal machine vibrations which reverberated through the bases of machines got dampened. Machines ran more smoothly. If finding such washers is a problem, buy some HomeDepot felt furniture pads Drill/punch a hole and place a pad just above each caster. 1/4" might make a big difference. No down side. GOOD LUCK!
Such convenient timing! I am yet to solve the vibration issues with my own homemade bandsaw and there was a lot of useful information here for me to do some more trouble shooting :)
Love seeing that having your daughter in your shop with you as being no problem. My son is 6 now and hes my right hand man, weather im metal working, forging, work8ng on cars and now learning wood working hes always right there with me, always doing what dads doing..... but man does he love electrical tape, i always have to have seceret stashes of it incase i ever need any..... but i love every minute in my shop with him... this has been a great set of vids. Keep up the great work.... i always learn somthing watching your uploads.... cheers from Australia
Thank you for sharing your shake problem and very systematic problem solving in attempt to get to the root cause of the problem. I would suggest at this point to consider using a stethoscope to probe the machine to see if a sound can be heard that corresponds with the deflection. Still,,, a thou of deflection is phenomenal when you consider the weight of the machine and materials used - you are inspiration to us all.
How about some dampening feet? Does the RPM decrease at all when cutting? Does that increase vibration amplitude? All the test were done with no load, so maybe there are no vibrations when you're cutting(or they're worse!).
This may sound odd, but it's a technique I've used many many times to chase down vibrations (used to be a ski lift mechanic and millwright). Take a long screwdriver with a hard handle and while holding the handle to your temple, press the blade of the screwdriver to the problem unit, checking in various areas. You'll quickly close in on the problem by feeling the intensity of the vibrations, hotter colder style. We called it a mechanics stethoscope and used it to check bearings on lifts, cats, pumps, you name it. Hope I explained this well enough.
you could check the roundness by sticking the dial indicator on the blade where it goes around the wheel. I guess how square the wheel is to axle could also cause vibrations but that would probably be in a different direction
A while back I had a blower fan blade I needed to balance and came across an article describing using parallel and leveled straight edges to support the fan shaft. This offered much less friction than using bearings and the set up was very sensitive to the blade balance. I didn't have any metal straight edges at the time so I used a couple of new 6 inch blades from my floor scraper. Scary sharp but just about 0 friction.
I have a similar problem with my 20 yr old scmi mini max s -45 18in BS the top cast iron wheel was out of round. by .025 My machinest friend said it was to difficult to true up the wheel. I/ll make a check list of all your suggestions .Thanks for posting . Very helpful
I saw the "beating" (slow oscillation in amplitude) in your measurement and thought of the pattern created by the interference of two similar frequencies. So the beat frequency equals the difference between the two driving frequencies coming from the bottom and top wheels.
Definitely a correlation between the vibration on the dial mic and the audible of the motor. To me it almost sounds like the motor strains and you get 4 distinct vibrations. Any chance the drive belt has a hard spot or is flat? Or maybe the bandsaw weld going over the feed rollers?
How much does it vibrate with the blade removed? Would removing the blade isolate any remaining vibration to just bottom wheel balance/motor mount defects?
I wonder if rather than leaving weights attached to your bandsaw, could you damp the vibration by attaching a cable with a tensioner mounted to the top section and the riser post in the middle? I think the spring in the cable would change the resonant frequency of the saw.
Could you use some like 5mm threaded bar to tension the upper part of the saw, a little like the way a truss rod works on a guitar neck? ...just a thought.
So with that all said, are you going to just add on more weights to the frame or just live with the vibrations that you are getting without those on it?
Matthias, I agree with you in your article that it is probably the V-belt that is the issue. Observing the resonance effect, I believe that your V belt is the transmission source of the vibration (dial indicator varying up and down while running, and going through an obvious resonance peak while slowing down). You obviously believe it is resonance as you instinctively added weight to the frame to alter the damping factor like any good U of W engineering grad would do. Part 2? Thanks for all of your videos, I enjoy them all. D
Given how the shaking isn't a continuous wave, I wonder if there are any kinks or cracks in the rubber belt that might be causing vibration? Curious to see if that changes anything.
There's a pulse to the vibration a little over a second in frequency. Is that the motor itself? I've noticed my radial arm saw motor does something similar.
Mr. Wandel, could minute variations in the torque of the motor be a possible vibration source? Would it be possible to measure for something like that? Also could gyroscopic procession be an issue?
There still looks like to be a "pulse" to your oscillation, with a maximum and a minimum. Would letting the wheels balance before putting the blade (or maybe rotating one 180° afterward) solves this? Maybe by timing the maxima you could know at which frequency this pulse is (every X wheel rotation) and figure out what is causing it. Also, what is the effect of the weight distribution along the height of the saw? Higher = better?
Aww the little helper is so cute.
Mathias, I love your use of good measuring devices and your accumulated knowledge. I never case to be fascinated and learn. Can't say enough thanks for your excellent work.
Was hearing the "Mission Impossible" theme there at 1:30 :)
Not so loud, else the copyright strike takes this video down.
hi john u ever smoked weed? xd
John Heisz I was thinking more along the lines of "these boots are made for walkin'"
I heard "good vibrations"
Vexy 420 Yes, but I didn't inhale.
I think you nailed it near the end, apparently your motor speed is just very close to a harmonic in your saw..maybe changing the speed through a different drive sheave could help. Great video, it's inspiring that you continue to troubleshoot and show your logic for us all to follow, part of what makes your videos so enjoyable and great for other's to learn from!
Man I love it when he shows his process. Great vid!
Thank you for doing this video! You were so methodic about how to test and fix and had so many good ideas on how to cut down vibration. I think many of the things you did could translate pretty well into a lot of different machines. Great work I love your bandsaws!
I really like the way you approached and finally assessed the problem you were having.
No matter what kind of video you make it's always fun and interesting to watch :)
It's shaking too much. Clearly you need to make another bandsaw
And much bigger.
That was implied. I wouldn't object to a tiny bandsaw though, It would be something I'd buy the plans to.
ThePetahs I'd love to see a tiny bandsaw project. Something for model makers.
Ya, 0.001" to 0.002" of vibration. The thing is junk. I will volunteer to take it off his hands. ;)
+lumspond Are small ones really worth the time it takes to build it? You can get a new one for $130.
Thanks for walking us through your troubleshooting process. Another excellent video.
My favorite video, not because the content was any better than your usual very good stuff, but how patient you were with your young assistant. She is your best "project " so far. Can we assume that someone who thinks two bandsaws are better than one , feels that same about assistants?
I appreciate your willingness/dedication for solving troubles. great job.
a suggestion, when balancing using bearings, pull the seals of the bearings and clean all the grease out of them. greased bearings add a lot of friction and make it really hard to figure out where the heavy spot is.
Excellent work Wendel, I've already built several machines and I know that
Alignment and balancing is critical to good performance. Congratulations, your project was very good.
please make a shaking comparison with a factory band saw.
You are the da Vinci of woodworking, sir!
Ferrariman601 da Vinci was the da Vinci of woodworking
ecahseb best comment ever!!
No, da Vinci never made anything. All he did was sketches.
That's not correct. Google da Vinci sculptures and educate yourself.
Awesome to see you here Ferrariman601! Loving your Asetto Corsa vids!
The cutest apprentice I've ever seen! Great job mom & dad!
I think it is the green paint. Also, your little helper is adorable.
I CAN'T EVEN RIGHT NOW. I'M LITERALLY SHAKING.
Mitch Robinson: wedge a shim under your motor.
Your Assistants were awesome!
You are a genius sir. With love from India.
A possible remedy is to place fiber washers between the casters and the saw. (Have seen them used under clothes dryers before.)My reasoning is if the casters dampen the vibration the saw resonates, a little bit more cushioning might dampen it more. Here in Greenville, SC, a 100 year old supply company survived selling 3M fiberglass reinforced rubber pads to go under heavy textile machinery. Machines which vibrated like pea thrashers.(They repackaged the product and obliterated all 3M trademarks. That way, their competitors were unable to source it, and undercut their 300% markups.) Internal machine vibrations which reverberated through the bases of machines got dampened. Machines ran more smoothly.
If finding such washers is a problem, buy some HomeDepot felt furniture pads Drill/punch a hole and place a pad just above each caster. 1/4" might make a big difference. No down side. GOOD LUCK!
Love your helper, she is so cute. Also your work is fantastic.
Good to see Rachel and Harriette; thanks for sharing : )
This is perfect timing. have gotten my bandsaw up and running and been trying to figure out ways to cut down the vibration. Thanks Matthias :)
Very cool to see you go through your problem solving method. I enjoyed the video!
Beautiful baby, nice to see you getting him involved.
As usual, my trusted source. Great video.
me encanto ver a tu señora y a tu hijo ayudandote Muy buen video
I really like all of your work.. and your special way to explain..
Such convenient timing! I am yet to solve the vibration issues with my own homemade bandsaw and there was a lot of useful information here for me to do some more trouble shooting :)
Love seeing that having your daughter in your shop with you as being no problem. My son is 6 now and hes my right hand man, weather im metal working, forging, work8ng on cars and now learning wood working hes always right there with me, always doing what dads doing..... but man does he love electrical tape, i always have to have seceret stashes of it incase i ever need any..... but i love every minute in my shop with him... this has been a great set of vids. Keep up the great work.... i always learn somthing watching your uploads.... cheers from Australia
Your a mad scientist and your videos are great!!!!
Very interesting. Thanks for walking us thru the process.
I wonder if it would be possible to create some sort of compact tuned-mass damper to defeat the vibration...
I enjoyed your troubleshooting...well done as always!
Your child is so beautiful - wide-eyed and taking everything in :-)
Your helper is adorable.
Great tip for checking the roundness of a wheel by twanging the blade :) Great video as always. Thanks :)
Good job isolating that issue. it takes a lot of patience and trial and error to fix that
Practical advice balanced with adorable cuteness !!!
1st Newon's Law showing up! Great Job Mr Matthias! Now it's Tuned!
I really enjoy your scientific method.
رائع واشكرك على ماتقدمة ولديك عائلة لطيفة
brave ........ Fantastic
Thank you for sharing your shake problem and very systematic problem solving in attempt to get to the root cause of the problem. I would suggest at this point to consider using a stethoscope to probe the machine to see if a sound can be heard that corresponds with the deflection. Still,,, a thou of deflection is phenomenal when you consider the weight of the machine and materials used - you are inspiration to us all.
More videos with cute kids! More Rachel!
The level of cuteness is off the charts, especially for a Matthias Wandel video ^^
yep...that baby tho
Those weights on top of the saw make me nervous for the little tacker. =)
+mickenoss Agree, and it also looked a bit too temporary of a solution. Adding some mounts would fix it.
How about some dampening feet? Does the RPM decrease at all when cutting? Does that increase vibration amplitude? All the test were done with no load, so maybe there are no vibrations when you're cutting(or they're worse!).
Helpful videos,Matthias.
Your little helper is growing sooooooo fast!
It's shaking because it's groovy baby!
Very thorough; I learned something today. You'r helper is so cute!
I would love to see your take on a Hand Spinner. Very simple concept and it seems fun to build and use!
This may sound odd, but it's a technique I've used many many times to chase down vibrations (used to be a ski lift mechanic and millwright). Take a long screwdriver with a hard handle and while holding the handle to your temple, press the blade of the screwdriver to the problem unit, checking in various areas. You'll quickly close in on the problem by feeling the intensity of the vibrations, hotter colder style. We called it a mechanics stethoscope and used it to check bearings on lifts, cats, pumps, you name it. Hope I explained this well enough.
I think this is great advice. Any rigid and dense object will work, but an actual stethoscope would be the best, though.
they make stethoscopes for auto mechanics. Same idea.
The best. Thx a lot for the insightful analysis.
you could check the roundness by sticking the dial indicator on the blade where it goes around the wheel. I guess how square the wheel is to axle could also cause vibrations but that would probably be in a different direction
Love your videos!
Your QA assistant is starting to look real cute. I hope we'll get a chance to see her from time to time.
That's quite the little helper there Mathias!
the kid has a real interest in the process and the wonders of the tool drawer
You are the man Matthias !!
I dunno, the change in pitch seems pretty obvious in the video. Sounds like 3-5 half-steps in pitch.
I bet that Dewalt saw vibrates more lol. Interesting video. Your daughter will be making her own bandsaw in no time.
Wow, your kid grows like fast, nice to see.
Matt you are awesome bro I love all your videos
very informative, keep up the good works. thanks you
A while back I had a blower fan blade I needed to balance and came across an article describing using parallel and leveled straight edges to support the fan shaft. This offered much less friction than using bearings and the set up was very sensitive to the blade balance. I didn't have any metal straight edges at the time so I used a couple of new 6 inch blades from my floor scraper. Scary sharp but just about 0 friction.
I have a similar problem with my 20 yr old scmi mini max s -45 18in BS the top cast iron wheel was out of round. by .025 My machinest friend said it was to difficult to true up the wheel. I/ll make a check list of all your suggestions .Thanks for posting . Very helpful
Never thought I'd see Matthais play the upright (bandsaw) bass. Nice vid, haha!
Interesting analysis. Could uneven gathering and stretching of the tires contribute to vibration
You didn't compare the vibrations to a store bought model, another great video.
I saw the "beating" (slow oscillation in amplitude) in your measurement and thought of the pattern created by the interference of two similar frequencies. So the beat frequency equals the difference between the two driving frequencies coming from the bottom and top wheels.
good day Matthias could the vibrations be caused by the blade not being joined correctly?
so the dumbbells is going to be part of the build plans ?
Definitely a correlation between the vibration on the dial mic and the audible of the motor. To me it almost sounds like the motor strains and you get 4 distinct vibrations. Any chance the drive belt has a hard spot or is flat? Or maybe the bandsaw weld going over the feed rollers?
How much does it vibrate with the blade removed? Would removing the blade isolate any remaining vibration to just bottom wheel balance/motor mount defects?
Would it make any difference if you used better quality wheels, like those that are made out of "gel"?
I wonder if rather than leaving weights attached to your bandsaw, could you damp the vibration by attaching a cable with a tensioner mounted to the top section and the riser post in the middle? I think the spring in the cable would change the resonant frequency of the saw.
Could you use some like 5mm threaded bar to tension the upper part of the saw, a little like the way a truss rod works on a guitar neck? ...just a thought.
Loved watching this
I feel like i heard a little variation on the pitch, but could be an audio issue from the video, check with a digital instrument.
Would a thick rubber mat underneath the saw do anything to damp vibration? Seems like you already have it at a manageable level.
instructive video. the little one is growing fast
So with that all said, are you going to just add on more weights to the frame or just live with the vibrations that you are getting without those on it?
You better get 1 million!
I wonder if a link belt or different belt on the motor would make an improvement on your dial gauge reading
I think some operations can be mechanized)))
Matthias, I agree with you in your article that it is probably the V-belt that is the issue. Observing the resonance effect, I believe that your V belt is the transmission source of the vibration (dial indicator varying up and down while running, and going through an obvious resonance peak while slowing down). You obviously believe it is resonance as you instinctively added weight to the frame to alter the damping factor like any good U of W engineering grad would do. Part 2? Thanks for all of your videos, I enjoy them all. D
Love the little assistant....
What was the frequency of the vibrations? Was it the resonant frequency of the wood support structure?
Very nice man, trying to find the perfection.
Holy cow how time flies. She's getting so big.
Given how the shaking isn't a continuous wave, I wonder if there are any kinks or cracks in the rubber belt that might be causing vibration? Curious to see if that changes anything.
There's a pulse to the vibration a little over a second in frequency. Is that the motor itself? I've noticed my radial arm saw motor does something similar.
Mr. Wandel, could minute variations in the torque of the motor be a possible vibration source? Would it be possible to measure for something like that? Also could gyroscopic procession be an issue?
This guy is my hero!
Could it be that the pulley wheel isn't flat, or the axle is imperfectly perpendicular to the mount?
That damn Spring Mass Damper stuff gets ya every time.
The baby............so cute.
There still looks like to be a "pulse" to your oscillation, with a maximum and a minimum. Would letting the wheels balance before putting the blade (or maybe rotating one 180° afterward) solves this? Maybe by timing the maxima you could know at which frequency this pulse is (every X wheel rotation) and figure out what is causing it. Also, what is the effect of the weight distribution along the height of the saw? Higher = better?