The Ultimate LA Fantasy Transit Map: Part 2!!!
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- čas přidán 27. 09. 2023
- A short follow-up of last week's video. Hopefully we don't leave any line left behind this time around.
Part 1: • The Ultimate LA Fantas...
#cities #losangeles #metro #train #transit #urbanism #fantasytransit
If this would happen, LA would turn into the largest city in America and probably one of the best cities in the world rivaling that of Tokyo, London and Seoul.
That's some Paris Shanghai type shit 👀
I think clarifying what each line is trying to be would help a ton. While it's great to say "Rail transit everywhere!", I'm seeing many lines that are less than a mile apart, where it would be more effective to use busses to cover somewhat larger gaps between rail lines.
Which line do you think is redundant, if you don't mind me asking?
@@alexanderrotmensz I'm referring to the double north-south lines from northwest of LA to Wilmington, then the triple line past Long Beach as examples. If this were to be good-quality transit, having just one line be a metro, and the other(s) being BRT would fit better. Unless of course you are doing this in a scenario where these areas are becoming medium-high density developments, which I'd doubt happening on such a scale.
Extend the WSAB north to Dodgers Stadium, Griffith Park, LA Zoo, Burbank Studios and Bob Hope Airport.
We need the ultimate San Diego metro system!
This pls
very gangsta
This end-state map looks a lot like the rail system in Osaka. That's some gooooood coverage. Despite the amount of funding that would be required, I think the hardest part of this plan would be getting LA, SB, and Orange counties to agree on anything.
I must say this is pretty good. I have been working on my own fantasy maps for some time now (starting from what has been built so far but grade separating all heavy and light rail lines) using actual ridership data from LA Metro, OCTA, RTA (Riverside) and OMNITrans (San Bernardino) to identify the highest ridership corridors and busiest segments. I also incorporated information from various planning agencies and municipalities along with my own innate knowledge of LA traffic patterns.
While pure fantasy that will never happen, I wanted to see what a rapid transit system for Southern California that provided the same kind of mobility that NYC, Paris, and London have would look like using my mantra that ridership depends on four things, 1) frequency, 2) transit time, 3) connections, and 4) cost - as in the overall cost benefit of using transit compared to driving and parking (as an example, the cost benefit of a $3 transit ride that takes an overall 45 minutes compared to the cost of driving for 25 min in traffic and parking for $35 for the whole day - the extra 20 minutes saves you $32), because they all build on each other.
I typically don't like using old rail corridors like LA Metro has done over and over because they do not pass through the main commercial corridors, activity centers, and where people want to be except for short segments where advantageous. My main example being the South Bay extension with stations in the middle of nowhere that everyone will need a bus transfer to get where they need to be and costing a lot of extra time that takes all the "rapid" out of rapid transit. Rapid transit should take most people right where they need to be.
Here are links to three LA maps I have been working on:
One with the base rapid transit network: metrodreamin.com/view/blVDTnl4S3pTQ1g0Q3JCalAxTTM5TWs1VHAwM3wxMQ%3D%3D
one of the expanded commuter rail network: metrodreamin.com/view/blVDTnl4S3pTQ1g0Q3JCalAxTTM5TWs1VHAwM3w5
and one with the integrated metro and commuter rail network: metrodreamin.com/view/blVDTnl4S3pTQ1g0Q3JCalAxTTM5TWs1VHAwM3wyNg%3D%3D
Yo those maps are great!
Now I would love this so much!
Glad to see Long Beach getting some love
This transit map consits of slow light rail corridors that service small low density suburbs that parallel each other ( like the 10 lines in long beach) that will be slow to an unacceptable level like the existing A line with a full 1 hour travel time between la and long beach. A better way of servicing La's semi low density suburbia is a fast hub and spoke service with either frequent express services or a low amount of stops that serve as interchanges for local buses . this increased connectivity with a faster trip to other areas far away through the faster trains and to local places through the buses allows these areas to be key areas for development. This style of transit inst only faster but also cheaper as you need less rolling stock and the path for the rail can go along cheaper corridors like freeways rather than bolvards where you have to repathe a road and move the water pipes underneath it.
I think the scale is deceiving. Most stations are actually about a mile from each other, which is definitely standard for metro service or if anything actually longer. And on some lines theres stations with at least 2 miles in between.
However, I will agree that perhaps the next phase is RER style lines to provide faster express services. I'm also open to the idea that a few of these lines offer express service as is.
Nice to see some Long Beach support, giving the A Line signal priority or even grade separating it would go a long way to connecting to LA, but there should be rail in LB for sure. PCH is an easy bet, but I think even BRTs is fine, e.g. the Lakewood Blvd BRT they're looking into, and giving 7th St a BRT would be great too along with Carson.
This fantasy map would have been cool for past-me though since I used to commute from PCH/Magnolia down Western in Torrance. Would have turned an annoying drive into a nice transit transfer that'd probably shave the real hour long bus ride in half.
Part 1 grade separates A line
Subway from Sierra Madre Villa Station to CSULB via Long Beach Airport along State Route CA19 and connections to E, C, WSAB Lines.
Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farm, Cypress College, Los Cerritos Center, Lakewood Center. Del Amo Plaza, CSUDH, South Bay PAVILLION, El Camino College, SoFi and LAX. .. All Subway lots of jobs along this line.
someone finally cares about the south bay! and the sgv! you should make the map public and put it in the description
Good point!
Awesome content!
Having a train along the entire length of Western Avenue from Hollywood to Pedro makes so much sense.
This does a great job fulfilling the need for LRT and Metro in LA. However, the West Side is in dire need of more express transit for these services to connect to. I'd love to see a Union Station to LAX S-Bahn Tunnel with limited stops at USC, Vermont, and Crenshaw. I'd also love to see portions of the Alameda street rail ROW repurposed to create some kind of express connection to Long Beach. LA is so vast that it demands regional rail much more than Metro and LRT.
Connecting UCI thru Newport is a great idea if there is an inland connection as well. Orange County needs more internal connectivity especially with local MetroLink stations, that way MetroLink can do the heavy lifting of moving people towards LA. Great video tho! Def subbed
I would extend the line from UC Irvine to John Wayne Airport.
Thank you for joining! And yes definitely deeper Orange County links are next
😂😂 😂 how cute 🥰 Oh, the humanity 🤣
Super cool, add new stuff for Irvine and for the north side of the San Fernando Valley
Whats this? A new urbanist channel to look afte-
*subbed*
Thank you!
I would encorage thinking of LA as more polycentric metropolis with less focus on downtown and more line convergence in subcenters.
It's interesting that you bring up connections to the Orange County beach cities in this video, because I believe that's one of the major connections for passenger rail travel in Southern California that's missing, along with the lack of a rail line connecting San Diego to the Inland Empire on the I-15 and I-215 corridors, which then can serve as another way to travel between California's two largest cities by rail, something that could become more important in the future, given what's happened in Del Mar and San Clemente in recent years on the one current rail link between Los Angeles and San Diego.
Obviously, such a rail line linking Irvine to Santa Monica would probably have to be a Metrolink line, given the distance involved, and would have to include connections to John Wayne Airport, LAX, and would need to link up with LA Metro in Long Beach at one of the stations there. An LA Metro/San Diego MTS-like light rail system should also be built in Orange County, connecting Long Beach, Costa Mesa, and other beach cities to Santa Ana, Anaheim, Irvine, Norwalk (in LA County), and possibly even go far enough north to connect with the east end of LA Metro's A Line, probably somewhere near Azusa (Ontario or Pomona would likely be too far for a light rail line that would mainly serve Orange County).
Btw, like the D Line extension idea towards Lincoln Heights, except that whole rail area and valley blvd and the hospital is getting a major rework soon, so connecting to the Metro Link at Valley Blvd n Metro with a new stop for both is more likely.
(The Subways are East/West under Union, so it would tunnel eastwards then probably follow Mission Road NE for ease of access to the site, Station at Griffin/Mission, then if continued further, tunneling under Valley Blvd eastwards (maybe a 2nd Station at Soto/Valley with 2 Entrances N&S, then straight under the tracks under Eastern Ave to an on-campus station at the Cal State LA Transit Circle. This would server both ends of the University & Hospital with adj Facilities, but also Ramona Gardens Public Housing, Lincoln Height (south) & Ascot Hills Neighborhoods, new apartments & hotels, multiple bus lines, Lincoln Park Public Areas/Facilities, multiple bike lanes (existing/future,) and Cal State LA Transit Circle.)
Also, I believe you missed in both videos the planned extension of the B-Line to the 6th Street Viaduct. With possible hook over to Alameda/Olympic to connect the near future Gateway Cities Line (towards but not to Santa Ana.)
Something I would also say is the Venice Blvd Line would more likely be on Olympic. For the follow reasons: 1) It has more lanes, so needs and can "road diet" easier. 2) It's a very busy road, it is to Wilshire that Western is to Vermont (if you follow me.) 3) In DTLA, it is further way from The 10 and so it would show higher potential ridership in preliminary studies. 4) New Station at Flower to the intersecting Lines there. 5) Near-Direct access to (currently) Crypto.Com Arena & (currently) Peacock Theater & Grammy Museum. 6) If it was a Light Rail at-grade, you can (and would if it was a subway) go under Wilshire Park from Arlington Ave westwards & southwards to the (near future) Vineyard Transit Station/Hub at Venice/Pico/San Vicente connecting to the K-Line Extension. 7) Then follow Venice Blvd towards Culver City as you had it. 8.) On the eastern of Flower portion, it would continue subterranean of Olympic connecting to the Gateway Cities Line at Olympic/Alameda, servicing the Fashion District...
...The would be Part 1 and 2 and 3 (Venice to Culver, Culver to K-Town, K-Town to Fashion District) after Part 4 would I suppose go along where you had it (though, I am not sure if that would be in the cards. It would depend if it was Tram or Subway...)
...At the very least, my idea is simpler, I can see it going eastward under the river to the Wyvernwood Garden Public Housing at Soto/Olympic, and then back up to at-grade to Estrada Courts Public Housing at Lorena(or)Grand Vista/Olympic. At least those two stop, but i could see a desire to connect it to the East LA Extension that will soon go through Commerce. Where there would be Aerial Alignment (after Olympic) at Telegraph Road, between it and the Freeway. Then after Atlantic Blvd, an at-grade Connection to the moved Metro Link & East LA Extension Station at the Citadel.
Extend the D LINE to Uptown Whittier or Brea Mall... with stops at 7th/ALAMEDA, ARTS DISTRICT, SEARS BUILDING ON SOTO, SALAZAR PARK, FORD/WHITTIER, ARIZONA/WHITTIER, ATLANTIC/WHITTIER, GARFIELD/WHITTIER, MONTEBELLO CITY PARK, ROSEMEAD/WHITTIER, NORWALK/WHITTIER, PHILADELPHIA/GREENLEAF, PAINTER/MAR VISTA, QUAD, WHITTWOOD MALL, 1st AVE then merge into the ROW before Lambert and go all the way to Brea just pass the to Kraemer. With stops Beach, Euclid, Harbor, Brea, State College and Kraemer.
Well I kinda moved the D line to Lincoln Heights and Norwalk. Maybe i can do that with the B line
B Line from Union Station to Lincoln Park to Cal Poly Pomona mostly along Valley stops Cal State LA, Fremont, Atlantic, Garfield, New, San Gabriel, Rosemead, Temple City, El Monte BUS STATION, Peck Rd, KAISER in Baldwin Park, 7th Ave and Valley, OLD TOWN PUENTE, Valley and Azusa, Puente Hills Mall, Colima and Nogales, Brea Canyon Metrolink Station, Valley and Grand, Mt.SAC and Cal Poly Pomona.
One project that I wished you mentioned was the original San Fernando Valley dedicated brt line that was planned and changed to a bus peak hour corridor.
Extend the line from UC Irvine to John Wayne Airport. Extend the line from Cal State Fullerton to OC Great Park, UC Irvine with a terminal at South Coast Plaza.
Lakewood/Rosemead BLVD from Sierra Madre to Long Beach/ CSLB is needed. If i had power I would push for that.
This is a lot of subway and light rail lines
indeed
can I just suggest in the future you highlight/circle/thicken the specific line you're mentioning? As someone with an interest in LA transit but who doesn't know the map quite like a local, it's a bit hard to follow in parts. Great video though.
Good idea
The valley should have a subway system
The line from manhattan beach should stop directly at Sofi stadium instead
Yes! then they could build housing on top of those giant parking lots at Sofi!
What lines would most likely pass in a few years?
With the speed of LA Metro this will be completed by 2223!
Coachella
Looking real long-term, now. I don't see how it'd be possible to have a line along the beach -- just technically speaking. If it's underground then it has to be way higher-up so it isn't beneath sea-level. Don't particularly want a subway in the tsunami inundation zone, ya know? Sadly, they are starting to build on the old red-car right of ways, though it'd probably be possible to tunnel underneath those. That would make the most sense to me along the beach cities.
Direct connections into CSULB are a big duh. And all those rich neighborhoods would fight transit, like they always do but whatyagonnado.
How about a metro line that circles downtown, plus another outside near downtown
You should do San Diego
The orange line has a reverse branch into DTLA now which is bad but otherwise this is great, although there’s no way any of this would be practical to use without very high average speeds on trains, and probably substantial express service.
Feel like there’s gotta some kinda line covering those areas. Maybe not a branch line but even then it’s not the end of the world. But yeah I’m down for express services as well. Most of the stops are over a mile between each other it’s just that LA is so damn big it makes it look much more condensed.
@@alexanderrotmensz Yeah I agree. I feel like in a perfect world LA would use the construction of a new rapid transit system to drastically condense the city around transit stops, but I feel like that won't happen any time soon.
@@theexcaliburone5933 Yeah I agree with you. I get why people don't want LA to become just a bunch of high rises (I myself am a proponent of traditonal architecture), but the main problem isn't necessarily the lack of taller buildings and large apartment blocks, but horrible urban design. It's a lot of roads, parking lots, and stuff like that take up so much damn space. LA was just built wrong because they laid the streets out for car use exclusively. To ever truly fix the issue they would literally have to rip up the roads and buildings and just start again lol.
@@alexanderrotmensz I mean cities are organic concepts, everything in them will fall apart and need replacing eventually, and the streets need it every 30 ish years. Also I agree that the whole city shouldn't become skyscrapers, but I think a few around more central stations isn't a bad idea at all, and 3-7 story density around all other stations is basically nesessary.
We could even start serving some of that density that already exists in DTLA and Hollywood with some Els, but alas I don't think that'll happen any time soon either.
Clearly wrong about the A line connecting to the Z down to the R and then to the P line
Many of the lines in this and the prior video will need to be subways or elevated trains to get separation from traffic or else they are gonna it held up in traffic by level crossings...
You will need more N-S lines in the Eastern portion of Metro area out by Chino and such... currently you are proposing most of the services running east to west so if you want to go N-S here you would have to travel a long ways E or W to a transfer node and get to a new line that backtracks further north in the same area...These new N-S services could be BRT or something instead of LRT or subways given the distances are shorter.
Also, you should do more E-W lines in Irvine area as well - could be BRT with dedicated lanes/signalling priority or something since the distances are shorter
Yeah I'm with you on grade separation completely. And yeah you're probably right regarding what would come next.
What program do you use for these?
Google MyMaps
@@alexanderrotmenszhow did you get the stations to show?
@@kjancku choose a dot icon when you make a point, then connect the lines with the line tool
thank you :)@@alexanderrotmensz
The new connecting between pasadena and pomona metrolink severely needs a stop at Mt. san antonio college not just cal poly Pomona. Very very low hanging fruit
Bob Hope Airport to Pomona subway line with stops at LA ZOO, GRIFFITH PARK, DODGERS STADIUM, CHINATOWN A LINE connection, then along mostly Valley Blvd with stops USC-LAC/LINCOLN PARK, CSULA, ATLANTIC, GARFIELD, DEL MAR, ROSEMEAD, EL MONTE BUS STATION J LINE connection, PECK, 7TH AVE, OLD TOWN PUENTE, AZUSA, PUENTE HILLS MALL, NOGALES, INDUSTRY METROLINK STATION, GRAND, MT. SAC, CAL POLY, FAIRPLEX AT MCKINLEY/WHITE, POMONA VALLEY HOSPITAL, POMONA TRANSIT CENTER connections to FOOTHILL TRANSIT AMD OMNI TRANSIT.
Can you please link your map?
tunneling throuhg topanga would be useful
I love the vision; especially all the love you gave Long Beach and connecting the beach cities. If the network were to reach such an amazing reach, it would be foolish not to remove every freeway including the 405.
As someone not from LA im all for an exyensive easy to use rail system that I could access all rhe tourist destinations
Love it but sadly the looks that run Metro and NIMBYs would never let this happen. Why? It makes too much sense . And it costs some coin.
This was fun to watch. The line you showed at the end that connects downtown to Glendale seems interesting. Metro is supposed to build a gondola from Union station to dodger stadium. However, I think it makes more sense to build a rail line that has a station at dodger stadium to somewhere toward the Glendale direction.
Yeah that's actually a very good point
Show some IE love in the next one
Most of the second half of this video would never ever happen. There's no way you'd get this much cooperation between 3 different counties. It is hard enough to connect on the county lines or just getting cities within LA County to play ball.
considering at that point it's be 2150, who knows lol. I guess the idea at that point is that once we get to that point, those would be the best projects to pursue, even if unrealistic. They're just "next" in that circumstance
@@alexanderrotmensz but i will say the D and B extensions with ll probably happen by 2060 easily. And Olympic Line is being discussed so that’s more like a 2075 goal, but we need a new Measure M, post Olympics Goals.
What makes you think this is gonna exist in the future? Your fans are too overzealous on giving you proposed rail line extensions.
hahaha. I don't use the term "fantasy" lightly. This is deeply fantasy, like literally a century away (at minimum). The practice is moreso spurred from the idea that LA should have a masterplan, even if silly and far down the line, because every line built should be a part of a greater system. This way, every new line will be effective and future proof, and developers and citizens alike can have a deeper understanding of where money is going and what might come in 5 years versus 20 years.
Placentia is pronounced Pluh-sen-cha
Source: Grew up in La Habra
Thank you! haha sorry
@@alexanderrotmensz All good man
Whose going to pay for it all???
no one lol
This is just silly at this point
I thought it was crazy enough after part 1 haha. If Metro rn is in Phase I let's say, this is like Phase IV levels