@@nickjones1314 You can presume what the outcome MIGHT be, but one can't determine their outcome. If your "PRESUMPTION" ends up being right, that doesn't necessarily mean u determined the outcome. I agree that certain things do have a predictable outcome, but that's another conversation all to itself.
This is such a significant conversation. There is so many details that we are not privy to, due to our own limited understanding and human experience. The Bible is created in such a way for us to understand, but the MYSTERIES of GOD are ever revealing. In the end, we either trust THE MOST HIGH’s (JEHOVAH) heart or not. Through my experience, I choose to TRUST HIM.
@Robinson Jean-Louis You Said in your initial statement that the "Foreknowledge of God does not interfere will our will to choose". Then why would you provide me with a scripture that is showing the exact opposite of your claim? Judas is a prime example that the foreknowledge of God does interfere with our will to choose. The fact that the foreknowledge of God had already dictated and ordained that Judas would make the very choice that he made, and this was dictated and ordained before the world even begin which means it was before Judas even was born. Jesus, being God in Flesh, already knew beforehand those who would not believe and who it would be that would betray him. This is what he clearly clearly said in John 6:64. And company this with the fact of the matter is that the Lord Almighty has already declared "FROM THEVERY BEGINNING OF TIME" all things that would occur upon the Earth all the way thru unto the very end of time - THE CHOICES THAT PEOPLE OR MEN MAKE ARE A DIRECT RESULT OF THE VERY FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD. This is because it is his foreknowledge, that supersedes and dictates all the things that happened up on the face of the Earth. (Ephesians 1:11, Ecc. 3:14). Man's choices are not what's determining what goes on in this world, it is the ordained plan of God that he established in his foreknowledge, before the heavens and earth were even created. You really picked the wrong verses to try to uphold your belief that the foreknowledge of God does not interfere with our human will to choose. Ephesians 1:11, Isaiah 46:10, Ecc. 3:14, Proverbs 16:1-4 is much proof that the full knowledge of God and what he's ordained before the world began dictates everything that is happening in the Earth, yes that includes your choices and mine.
@@selah6001 but "Strong G" is right. The answer that he gave was not an accurate answer. He also provided no scriptural proof as a witness for his answer. And, how can he get past Isaiah 46:10, Ephesians 1:11-12, Ecc. 3:14? DaTruth did not answer the question correctly.
Riiiiight. He gives them a very specific and accessible temptation, the consequences of which they couldn't have possibly understood until after they succumbed to it. It's the most ass backward and moronic story in the bible.
That statement is completely false. The father and the sons words do not contradict one another. You just stated that He grants them the opportunity to choose him. Jesus said specifically in John 15:16-17, do not choose me, but I have chosen you and ordained you that you may go forth and that much fruit. The father did not give a opportunity, he appointed his son to choose. I have a question for you if the son of god, Jesus Christ himself, tells his followers that we do not choose him, what kind of theology, what kind of answer, would you give that will go directly against his very words that he spoke? How can you disrespect the savior and go against the very words that he said himself? He said his self,"YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU". HOW YOU GOING TO GO AGAINST HIS SIMPLE CLEAR WORDS THAT WERE SPOKEN EMPHATICALLY?
@@snoopyco07 What I wonder to The full most is why couldn't The God of The Bible have just given his creation a perfect nature from The start??? So That There wouldn't even have to be a such Thing as Sin or A Judgement Day for That matter??? If tech designers can make and design computerized phones Then The God of The Bible SHOULD have The Power to do infinitely better. I am 36 years old by the way, Black American male.
One beautiful about how God chose to relate with us is that he knows our ability to both fail and not to fail yet he relates like we will not fail him, we're given benefit of doubt if like, let me put it this way, you have a friend who is poor in time management, there is an appointment for a business meeting with people that requires his/her presence, to prevent him/her from coming late, you start to remind the person, hours before time continuously but if the friend eventually comes late, you already know that is his/her weakness, the person had a choice to make and he/she made that choice to be late, the Holy Spirit keeps drawing our attention to avoid certain things yet keep making choices.
If God controlled every decision we made, making no provisions for an ability to choose with a free will, all of us would then be able to hold God responsible for every consequence associated with each action. In that scenario, anything less than God being responsible for our choices, He would cease to be just.
...except he didn't need to control their decisions. That's not even the issue. The god character of the bible created them ignorant, and they had no way to comprehend the consequences of their actions beforehand. Even if they could understand th he consequences, there's no possible way they could have understood the full scope of those consequences. Iwhat you just said is beyond stupid.
@@lcceo22 Do you realize that your comment is a classic case of eisegesis, ie: reading your presupposed assumption into the Bible? You wrongly assume that Adam and Eve were ignorant, but that assumption is nowhere in Scripture. If you go back and read Genesis 2:17, God commanded them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, not just a tree of knowledge. Adam and Eve, being made in the image of God were far from ignorant, my friend. And even if what you’re suggesting is true, that they were ignorant of any action leading to a consequence, the very fact that God gave them an instruction accompanied with a consequence of death upon disobedience, directly refutes your argument. I hope this helps gives you some clarity on the account of the Garden of Eden. Take care.
@@stephendavis5866 No, I don't "realize" that I'm reading a presupposed assumption into the bible, because I didn't do that. I save the presuppositions for Christian apologists. I didn't "assume" that the Adam and Eve characters in this myth were ignorant. It's pretty clear from scripture that they were. What, exactly, do you think "knowledge of good and evil" encompasses? It certainly encompasses the understanding that it's wrong to disobey a directive from their god. It certainly encompasses the understanding that it's good to do what that god says. And no, god giving them an instruction and telling them they would surely die doesn't in any way refute my argument. In fact, it supports my argument. They were absolutely ignorant of the consequences. These characters lived in a paradise, and would have had no reference point to their own death. How would two people, who have only ever lived in a paradise, have any reasonably sophisticated understanding of the concept of death? Further, how can two people, ignorant of the concepts of good and evil- and thus, no moral frame of reference- be capable of grasping the idea that they were doing something wrong by eating of that tree? Even if they were told not to, eating the fruit of that tree would be the only way they'd be able to grasp this. Worse? GOD LIED! They didn't die. They were simply chastized and kicked out. Oh, they *eventually* died, and the best response you can have there is that god never said when, which is about as disiengenuous as it gets. But it also illustrates that the god character here is guilty of not giving the whole truth. And it gets much, much worse for the character of god, or more appropriately, the lack of character shown by this god. Because not only did they not die after eating the fruit, (again, they'd die after an extremely long time, living far longer than any humans in recorded history) but the consequences were much worse than that . The bible doesn't say that god informed them prior to eating of that tree that they would have billions of descendants, a great many of which would suffer in ways unimaginable to Adam or Eve, up to and including damnation, seperation from god, and a portion of those descendants being sent to a lake of fire to burn for all eternity. At no point in the bible does god say, "if you eat of this tree, your descendants will, as a result, become so horrible and depraved that I'll murder every last one of them in a flood. I'll spare 7 people who will then have to start this whole thing all over from scratch, but yeah, I'll murder the rest of your descendants. By the way, this is just the tip of the iceberg, because things will much, much worse for your descendants after that, and I'll have to kinda sorta come to Earth as my own son to be murdered, in order to save some of your descendants, but the rest will burn in a lake of fire". And that's the biggest problem here: The consequences of their actions are the single most severe consequences of any action taken by any person in all of human history, and yet they were given a temptation without even being told anything remotely close the full scope of those consequences, much less given the ability to properly understand the good or evil their actions could potentially unleash as a result. The real consequences were exponentially worse than the one they were told. I have great clarity regarding the garden of eden account in the bible. You- and most Christians- are the ones who don't quite understand what happened there. You're blinded by indoctrination and apologetics. You're also smug, arrogant in the mistakenly belief that critics of your myth simply don't know enough about it. You're woefully incorrect on that. I hope this helps you see your religion for the obvious myth that it is, because it doesn't even make narrative sense, let alone hold as a true account of actual events, and it's a monstrously moral failure.
@@lcceo22 FYI God did not lie to Adam and Eve that they would die if they eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil because they died spiritually FIRST than naturally concerning the body. Unfortunately you wouldn't understand spiritual things because YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD YOURSELF until YOU believe and receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. The Bible seems foolish to spiritually dead people until they become alive in Christ Jesus once they believe in Him.
Trina The answer that he gave was not an accurate answer. He also provided no scriptural proof as a witness for his answer. And, how can he get past Isaiah 46:10, Ephesians 1:11-12, Ecc. 3:14? DaTruth did not answer the question correctly.
Trina I have a question. How was that a great answer that he provided? And where was his two or three biblical scriptural witnesses for his answer? I'm asking this truly out of a honest and pure heart? I am not asking this question out of evil motive or anything so please please please don't think so. If you could, please please provide me an answer to the question that I asked please?
This is deep, I salute the Grace on Da T.R.U.T.H and FLAME🙏 One individual asked me like why would a loving God allow satan to exist in eden where he knew that HE placed and put HIS only children in? And that why didn't GOD just eliminate the devil the first day he rebelled? My response was that GOD is a loving GOD, if HE had eliminated the devil in the presence of the other Angels, we wouldn't have been serving GOD out of love buh fear. Fear that if we rebel against GOD, HE will kill us, and that would have contradicted HIS nature of LOVE. GOD desires us to worship HIM in truth and spirit, hence HE needs souls that will WORSHIP HIM in truth and spirit. This has enlightened me so much. I Bless God for Da T.R.U.T.H and FLAME🙏 Thank you🙌
LOVING NATURE?? Bible god drowned a world's worth of babies puppies and pregnant women.. If bible god loves us and hates the devil, why is he drowning us and giving Belzebub a court date. How you drown a fetus who is not responsible for anything but continue to wait zillions of years to give the devil justice.. We are so intelligent but we turn the lights off when we talk about this bible Look young Fella. I think we both agree that the Sun does more for mankind than any god that man has EVER introduced to us. All of us can live without the bible.. We can still reproduce without alah and the quaran. The animals would not skip a beat if krishna and jesus and maat disappeared. But if that sun goes away life stops... The sun provides 100% of our medicine and 100% of our food helps with oxygen and vision and it keeps us warm. The sun does all of this and nothing in nature requires us to worship the sun. NOTHING... Nothing requires worship except man and the gods that man creates.. Zeus and bible god and odin need worship and blood sacrifice.. But in nature, there is nothing that requires worship, blood sacrifice or slavery. These are desires of men and being that man creates and introduces his gods to other men, these same desires are found in the gods that man creates... No god desires you to worship it. ## Tell me one god that desires worship that man did NOT have to tell you that said god desires worship
But they didn't understand the consequences. Nobody had ever died before, so they didn't even know what death was. And god never told them death would apply to every human forever. He tricked them.
My follow up question will be "did the devil deceive Eve on the first try or were there many failed attempts prior to Eve falling for the lie to eat the fruit?" The enemy will always try to deceive us, individually, to see what it takes to trick us.
The bruh is correct in that God wants us to choose "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise....but is patient, not wanting anybody to perish, but that everybody should come to Him" But he is not correct in saying that the events in the garden were not by His design "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times what is still to come" And concerning those who are Gods people "Even as he chose us in him from before the world began, that we should be holy and blameless before him" So what does this mean? It means that if you are seeking to remain in God and struggling against sin...sometimes winning and sometimes loosing. Take heart because God knows you are his and from before time he knew how to get you across that finish line. So keep fighting, don't give in, and know that God will move mountains for you.
This was an amazing conversation you all were having and that’s one of the questions others wanted to ask or have been thinking about. But thank you all for sharing with us! 💗💗😁🙏🙌God bless you
good answer by the brother in blue, and today we still have with the same opportunity to through the word of GOD, we can either get his knowledge and see the world in his way OR get the corrupted knowledge of the world and fail ... the choice is ours, the knowledge of GOD is free to get it. Be Bless
Okay but like, God is all knowing and knew the ending right at the beginning. So why make people in the first place? It's great that He gave us a choice and all but before he gave us a choice, weren't we sort of forced to be alive? Struggling with the concept of a good father. I know He's a good God but a father? Would a good parent purposefully place their child in a world that would fail them?...
God's ways are far above our ways. Its just like a parent bringing a child into this crazy world knowing the dangers of it but regardless that adult still wants children in the Earth that reflect them and look like them and that they can raise to become adults and continue the family lineage. So that parent is doing exactly what God did. It's not a setup, you instill values into your children to prepare them for life ahead but when they become old enough they have to make a decision rather than choose those values or go astray because of a different voice or influence they have yielded themselves too. We can't say God for stuff to be alive, that's like saying a parent force a child to be born into the Earth or you and I being forced to live in this earth while at the same time enjoying the blessings of it
Okay well, I question parents who bring children into this world as well, so although I see where you're coming from it doesn't exactly answer my question.(For the record I do not condone abortion and that is not what I'm saying) We as people do not know the ending or whether our children will serve God. More of a gamble I'd say. God, however, does. Before he made people, He knew the road to Him would be a narrow one and only few would choose Him.
This all happened to reveal the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ......Adam and Eve is the reality of humanity without God..."Free will I have often heard of, but I have never seen it. I have always met with will, and plenty of it, but it has either been led captive by sin or held in the blessed bonds of grace." - C. H. Spurgeon ....I recommend John Pipers series "Spectacular sins and their global impact for the Glory of God"
If Imma fail and bring death and punishment and suffering on myself, don't give me a choice to choose then. And it sounds like he did set us up for failure. Why did he even make the devil??? Everything would have been perfect without him.
God didn't create the devil, He created lucifer, lucifer decided to become the devil out of his own free will. And the thing with us- well it's like this, God is loving, and He would rather us choose to love Him back and follow and obey Him than force us to do it. If He forced us it wouldn't be love, and that's not God. He gave us free will, the ability to choose what we wanted but we don't have the ability to choose the outcome. When we sin, destruction comes after, He doesn't like your choice but He will honor the choice you made bc that is what you wanted. It's also why the Gospel is so important and amazing. It demonstrates God's mercy and love bc even tho humans chose to go down a path of destruction and misery, instead of leaving and letting us die (which is what we deserve), He gave us a way to go back to Him through His Son Jesus Christ. Hope this clears everything up. ❤️
@@sydnipollard4920 he knew exactly the monster he would become. ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED! No disrespect it’s just common knowledge at this point. I’m not tryna piss off God 😂 just having a genuine what he heck moment so excuse me.
I’m greatful someone was able to answer this question I have so many questions similar to this he really did a great job opening understanding on all sides 🤘
DMV I have a question. How was that a great answer that he provided? And where was his two or three biblical scriptural witnesses for his answer? I'm asking this truly out of a honest and pure heart? I am not asking this question out of evil motive or anything so please please please don't think so. If you could, please please provide me an answer to the question that I asked please?
I ask myself all the time, “where was God while the serpent tempted Eve?” He knew it was happening and did not intervene. But, you all should read Plantinga’s take on “Transworld Depravity.” Essentially, human beings from the outset had the *potential to sin and because they did sin, would sin in every possible world that God could have created with the various conditions required to maintain things like an ability to choose as moral free-agents. God must have had a plan in place (what we now know on this side of the cross as his eternal purpose of redemption through Christ) that in order to reach his desired result (ie redemption of his people) it was necessary that man sin and no other logical method could be employed to reach said goals that God has/had. Other goals he had in mind would play here as well. I’m a firm believer in a Greater Good Theodicy. That for every evil that exists or takes place, God has a greater good for allowing it to take place, even if that good won’t be realized until we are trillions of years in the future.
Humans don't sin in heaven, so obviously we wouldn't sin in every possible world. Your god could have created this world without sin also, but he chose to include evil and sin and then blame it all on Adam. But that was his plan all along. The greater good theodicy is evil. I want to see you tell some starving baby that god has a greater plan as they die in pain. That's just evil. Every human life is valuable, but your religion says if your god wants to drown people or let them starve to death, then that's all good. But it's not good, it's evil.
I believe that there's a GOD obviously but to say that there's a "man" in the sky in heaven somewhere sounds ridiculous. Life is about balance. In order for their to be good, their must be evil. One cannot exist without the other. All of that King James version of the bible is NOT what was taught by Africans in Ancient Africa when they were practicing Christianity
@@JL0007 "humans don't sin in heaven, so obviously we wouldn't sin in every possible world" is a statement that is lacking some information and biblical insight. How do humans get to heaven? It is through salvation and Jesus Christ- the only begotten son that God sacrificed for our sins. It is important to recognize this because God created us in His image and there wasn't any sin. You may have read that Lucifer was in heaven and he led 1/3 of angels against God and had a war in heaven and he was cast out and became a fallen angel down on earth. With that said, God does not make anyone do anything so all 'worlds' have free choice. He created a world of free choice but not without His sovereignty and that includes His love and grace as well as His law and wrath. Sin came into the world through Adam and salvation came through Jesus. God law was to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve chose to do so-- that is not to blame them, but to see how that choice led to sin entering the world. Starving babies, homeless, sick, dying etc is not what God originally created in the garden! He did not sacrifice his son Jesus to die on the cross because he blamed Adam. This is why we will have a new heaven and new earth. You can choose to blame God and seek your own understanding of the truth or choose Jesus and eat from the tree of life which is the living word of God.
Wonderful work you do. Can you please make your sessions longer they are too deep to be this short. I followed your work for long time now and very pleased.
Shalom beautiful people of The Most High God and many blessings to you and your beautiful families (personal/ministry). Beautiful discussion. And what is so beautiful about this is, is the fact that everyone who imparted revelation regarding this actually shed light on the fact that man cannot live dependent outside of The LORD God. The fall of Adam and Eve shows us how much mankind need God in order to live in this image of His and His life. We cannot do it by ourselves. Because trying to live outside of God and His image is literally a set up for failure. This is what happened to Lucifer when he fell. The enemy satan thought he could live outside of God's system and how he was designed to function but he ended up reaping dire consequences for his actions. We are not designed to function outside of the breath of God. And living from our humanity or "human side" is not enough because we are created in an image that expresses eternity and eternity cannot be expressed from the human side of man alone. We are designed to function from our spirit man. It is this realm that expresses the fullness of Jesus Christ and The Godhead. Satan did trick Adam and Eve into believing that they could express the fullness of this nature from their humanity or soul realm, but he purposely did this to them because he knew they would be restricted and bound to the expression of their human side, the soul life when in fact we are much more than that.
He didn’t trick Adam. Adam knew. Eve was deceived and Satan was right. He asked her. Did God tell YOU? The answer was NO, because she was not created when God took Adam to the tree and showed him which one to eat and which one not to eat. There was no they. It was him. She had not been taken out of him when God took him to the tree and made it plan, simple and clear to him. What tree. Where the tree was and told him when YOU ( not y’all) but when you eat there of you will SURELY (for sure) die. Don’t put the woman in this. He knew. He knew better. Because God made it clear to him. The power was his.
@@queendove6376 AKA we don't know.. Who are we allowing speak to us on behalf of a god. We interview babysitters and even the folks who watch our pets when we leave town... The uber driver has her profile available when she pick you up, but we dont know who we are giving the power to speak to us on behalf of god.
@@DJ-uc8mk No one! You can speak to God for yourself. The Bible are people who have had unique experiences with God and shared their stories. But those who trust and believe in their stories do it by faith. I believed and I prayed to God in faith and God revealed Himself to me and now I have my own testimony. You either believe or you don’t. The choice is all yours and others have to make their own decision too.
In the case of Job, it was God who raised the question "Did you considered 'my servant' Job?". God did it twice in the book. Seems like it was in the plan of God for a greater purpose.
Michael - you are right. The answer that he gave was not an accurate answer. He also provided no scriptural proof as a witness for his answer. And, how can he get past Isaiah 46:10, Ephesians 1:11-12, Ecc. 3:14? DaTruth did not answer the question correctly.
That's something I've wrestled with. Why put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place? I understand choice but it's like putting something in front of a child and saying don't touch it.
I look at it like this. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was there by default because God is good and created good and evil. Becuase evil is the absence of good which is a natural default. It's not like God waved a piece of candy in front of Adam and Eve, Satan did. He perverted the truth and tempted them. God didn't do that. Also just because someone knows what going to happen doesn't mean they want it to happen. God is sovereign but also loving so in his wisdom he handles the situation how he chooses. If he is the most wise he knows how to get to the best outcome for those He loves. In our limited human knowledge and wisdom we can't see the whole picture. Hope this makes since. Great question and concern.
Saying God gave them an opportunity to choose makes no sense because according to the bible, he knows the end from the beginning. So with that being the case, what's the point giving them such opportunity when you already know what the outcome would be??
@Dare Sholanje - There was no they. It was him. She had not been taken out of him when God took him to the tree and made it plan, simple and clear to him. What tree. Where the tree was and told him when YOU ( not y’all) but when you eat there of you will SURELY (for sure) die. Don’t put the woman in this. He knew. He knew better. Because God made it clear to him. The power was his.
First, I'm glad you had the courage to address this question. Kudos. That said, I find the answers insufficient on many levels. God is omniscient, and knows the future before it happens. God is all powerful, and later in scripture, we see that He had the power to kick Satan out of heaven and later bind satan in hell. He did neither, and allowed him to come to earth. On top of that, throughout scripture the Bible gives warnings about the danger Satan poses, comparing him to a "roaring lion looking to devour and conquer." The Bible urges us to put on the armor of God to protect against satan's schemes. Yet God somehow didn't deem it necessary to warn Adam and Eve about him? The indisputable fact is based upon what is in the creation and fall story, humanity had ZERO record of sinning until they ran into Satan in the garden of eden. As the gentleman who posed the question pointed out, mankind had no concept of death. At best, they had free will, but not informed will. Some have argued that Adam and Eve had no reason to doubt or question God. This may be true, but if the extent of human history up to that point was Adam dealt with Eve, God and the animals, there is zero proof he had any concept of deception. They had no known reason to doubt ANYONE if all they knew was love and honesty from God.. It's the same reason people tell their kids to not talk to strangers. Within that context of not fully understanding the penalty for sin and having zero warning about the threat satan posed when God could have kept that roaring lion away from us in the first place, the death penalty for a first ever offense was spectacularly excessive. On that subject I also question God's love for humanity at that point. Genesis 6:5-7 shows God found us quite disposable and no different from the animals. My question is when did God change His mind about us after that?
@@snoopyco07 more so their answers were 'pre-known' He didn't choose for them or us but He KNOWS the result. I think there is a big difference that we sometimes misconstrue?
Wow! This guy must have been in a really oppressive church. Sometimes people follow God out of fear. I don't think that lasts. There are some things about God we'll never understand. Word!
What a great statement this is... Did God set up Adam and Eve for failure? Yes and the reason why I say that because it was so much more a force on them messing up than it would Adam and Eve making it right (obedience). There would be no need for God more if obedience was Illustrated in the Garden of Eden. Psalms 41:10, God is always a present help in trouble. I love how everybody can come together and have a table talk conversation. There's certain things in God's way of doing just doesn't sit right with. me. God set up Moses too. Moses a man of God, a priest, a prophet, and a leader. Moses never made it to the promised land because he got angry. Moses served and did everything God told him to do. This was too harsh to me and unfair. Out of millions and millions of people only two made it in the promised land, Joshua and and Calub. And I understand there's some things that were not going to understand but it's not easy in the faifh walk. Our life is predestined we only have a small part to play.
Interesting talk! Imo, God didn't set them up. The best way I can explain my reasoning is through another thing that has a similar scenario: sex. God never said we can't have sex. He says we need to wait until we get married to have it, so before a certain age, that makes sense and you're fine with it, but once you reach 9, 10, 11, and etc and your body starts developing and changing, that temptation comes. As you fight it and grow in Christ, you start to understand the depth of sex in God's eyes and why He said it's for marriage only. Despite this, it's still your choice if you want to submit to temptation or not, and depending on your choice, things change. Once you get married and have sex with your spouse, you would enjoy it to the fullest since you protected yourself and partner from the baggage that comes with sexual immortality. If you don't save yourself, you may have problems with your or your spouse's body, (which can affect your spouse for obvious reasons), an STD, trauma, and etc. Outside of sex, you may have to pay child support which means that's X amount of dollars leaving your home, and every cent counts! Plus imagine the "baby mama/daddy drama"! When you look in Genesis 2 and the beginning of 3, both Adam and Eve were fine with not touching the tree and didn't have a problem with it, it wasn't until Eve entertained Satan via a conversation when that temptation came in. If it was in the garden, that implies that God wanted them to have it, but not at that moment. It was a "Wait", but due to a short convo, everything hit the fan. This isn't the only time in the Bible where people had an issue with waiting on God and due to their impatience or others' words went against what God said.
Who created the garden? Who created the tree of knowledge of good and evil? If it wasn’t in the grand plan of God that man be tempted and fall so that he could learn by his own experience to chose good from evil then why were the conditions so perfectly set. Besides the power to chose, the other aspect that makes humans very unique in a that only be knowing or being exposed to the opposite can we differentiate. How would we know joy if we didn’t know sorrow. How could we chose Christ if we weren’t fallen. Just look at your every day life. You know God and how good it feels because you also know how bad the guilt and pain feels to chose or be exposed to evil. Adam and Eve were in a state of innocence not knowing good from evil. Second, scripturally we have no evidence of them having children until after the fall. Was there something about disobeying God which awakened them to the ability to make a choice to have children?
But if God knew what they would choose, before they chose and still decided to convict them to an eternity of suffering… 🤔 His question wasn’t answered adequately in my humble opinion. I believe God knew what they would EVENTUALLY choose
Also, that same serpent was named by Adam. Remember God brought all creatures/animals to Adam and told him to name them. He had dominion from the beginning over the very thing God allowed him to name!!!
**Long response incoming. Read at your own risk** No offense to the gentlemen in this video brought on to speak, but I found both of their answers to be deeply unsatisfying (to me). The guy in blue says that he “doesn’t see it as God setting Adam and Eve up to fail, but as an opportunity to choose; to be human”, and that the true test of a person’s depth of commitment comes from if you present them with options and see that they will choose you over and over; and that without a test there is no way to truly see the genuineness of a person’s commitment to anything. I find this response to be unsatisfying because the guy who asked the question, Jason, also brought up how young and inexperienced Adam and Eve were, and they were going up against a great deceiver. This is something that has also been on my mind from a young age. Did God really expect Adam and Eve to not even be curious about the fruit? He made an entire garden for them and said that it all belonged to them, but oh wait, just not this tree (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). I can only speak for myself, but if an entire garden was mine and I could have anything I wanted in it, I would be curious as to why I can’t eat from just this one tree, and if it’s so dangerous, why did God place it in the garden in the first place? The bible says (NLT version Gen. 3:1) that the serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals that God had made. The definition of shrewd is “having or showing sharp powers of judgement; malicious, mischievous; astute - being able to assess a situation and turn it to one’s advantage”. Mind you, God made this animal. But why is this type of animal in the garden of Eden to begin with? Why did God make this type of animal at all if he did not want evil in the world? Adam and Eve only knew God and the garden. They had no concept of lying, deceiving, death, or disobedience, or any of the things that can bring one shame because they literally had no knowledge of good and evil and all the things we claim are moral. They were literally only days old. Telling them not to eat delicious looking fruit in a garden that belongs to them is like placing a marshmallow in front of a toddler and telling them not to eat it. And expecting them to know they are being deceived when they really had no concept of or reason to believe that anyone or anything could ever take advantage of them like that because all they knew was God and the garden, it’s baffling to me then that they were punished so harshly on their FIRST mistake in their entire existence; and that this punishment also extended to the rest of humanity. A days old human with zero experience and zero knowledge of the world around them and what’s in it VS. a shrewd serpent made by the hands of God that was literally created to be malicious. There is no comparison. It’s a greatly imbalanced scenario and the math is not mathing. It sounds like a set up to me. And to chalk it up to “God is giving us a choice” is not good enough. I can give my five-year-old nephew the choice to run across a street without looking both ways. That doesn’t mean it’s a wise decision and it also doesn’t mean that he will make the right choice. Especially when I have not taught him what can actually happen when darting into a street when cars are coming. We are supposed to teach our children. God did not teach Adam and Eve. He gave a command and expected perfection. Another thing that doesn’t sit right with me is that God lied to them. I grew up in church and even writing that sentence makes me feel like I’m gonna be struck down. But God specifically tells Adam that “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden, except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die” (Gen. 2:16-17 NLT version). Adam then relays this message to Eve. God told them that if they eat the fruit they will die. But they did NOT die. They became knowledgeable. The bible specifically states that immediately, in that moment, their eyes were opened (Gen. 3:7 NLT version). Why would God tell them they would die if they wouldn’t? Why not tell the truth? That the fruit would show them things that they are not yet supposed to know. This doesn’t mean that Adam and Eve wouldn’t have eaten the fruit if this were the case, but at least God wouldn’t have lied. And if this was not a set up, then why didn’t God warn Adam and Eve of the serpent? At this moment, before eating the fruit, they had no concept of good vs. evil so therefore they had no reason to mistrust the serpent (who actually told the truth by the way, that the fruit would open their eyes, Gen. 3:4-5 NLT version). Why didn’t God warn them that the serpent would try to convince them to eat the fruit? He sent them in blind and expected them to be perfect when they were only days old and had no knowledge of good vs. evil or right vs. wrong. Again, that sounds like a set up to me. The guy in the hat in this video explained all of this happening as a testament of God’s love and that he “swooped in with a rescue plan”. Um…how is this love and where is the rescue plan? God got angry with Adam and Eve and CURSED THEM, along with cursing the serpent, before fully kicking them out of the garden of Eden. In God’s curse, he sharpened the pain of pregnancy and declared that childbirth will also be in great pain. He said that husbands will RULE OVER wives and that the ground is now also cursed and only from the sweat of man’s brow will he be able to scratch a living from it. Then God made Adam and Eve some clothing from animal skins and kicked them out of the garden forever. But! Not before this exclamation: “Then the LORD God said, ‘Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!’ So, the LORD God banished them from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made. After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life (Gen. 3:22-24 NLT version). Please tell me how that is love and a rescue plan. God knows all, and he knew that Adam and Eve were not experienced enough to have any kind of discernment and yet he did not warn them of the serpent, and he told them they would die if they ate the fruit when they really wouldn’t. God wanted perfection, but he created imperfect human beings with the potential for “sin” who had no life experience, then basically lied to them. It doesn’t make sense and the answers given in this video are unsatisfying at best, and misleading at worst. God also never said that Adam and Eve couldn’t eat from the tree of life, yet God’s final statement before banishing them makes plain that he didn’t want them to because he didn’t want them to live forever. Quite frankly, that doesn’t sound like love either. It sounds petty. And spiteful, if I’m being completely honest. And lastly, who is “us”? This final statement from God is the second time so far in Genesis that God mentions “us” (Gen. 1:26 & Gen. 3:22). Who is “us”? This is a question I’ve asked since I was a child and have never received an actual answer to, even from bible teachers.
We choose but according to the highest inclination of our hearts. Because of our fallen natures our desires become a type of handicap and bondage and so we need a "heart and desire liberation theology". In this sense Jesus is less a 'recruiter" offering choices but more a freer of captives and opener of blind eyes, defeating sin with better desires. Adam was free to choose good or ill before the fall, not after the fall. To present day? well.... I think we are in bondage to our fallen wills needing a heart change in the gospel.
My question with the direction this conversation went is doesn't God already know all our sins past, present and future ? He told Peter that he would deny him 3 times before the rooster crows. He knows what's in our hearts long before we do. I wouldn't say God sent the serpent but the serpent went out around being the serpent and God being all-knowing must have factored that too, He would have known that the devil has it in him to tempt these people ... etc.
Nothing surprises God about us & our thinking and in fact if Adam amd Eve had managed the temptation at the garden we wouldn't have needed a Saviour. We would have no reason to be introduced to Christ since we can hande it all by ourselves.
God had to put something off limits for Adam and Eve because of obedience and to give the right to choose. For example, if there was only 1 man on earth than I would have no choice but to marry him because there were no other options. But if there is more than option than I am making a choice and not being married out of obligation. God gives us a free will. So he did the same for Adam and Eve.
I always said God used reverse psychology on Adam and Eve. Tell a person don't do something knowing they're going to do it if you tell them not to do it lol.
He knew they’d fail. He knew Satan would enter. Yet, he wants to rescue someone from something that could’ve been prevented completely. Sounds narcissistic.
Overall good response but he sort of backs into the answer to the question of WHY did God put Adam and Eve in that situation. Yes, exercising their will was what Adam and Eve had to do but what was Gods motivation? Gods motivation was to TEST Adam and Eve. 1). They failed the test. And it’s wonderful that everyone recognizes Gods love in the before and aftermath, esp. the picture of Christ seen in Gods provision of a suitable covering. But here’s a very dangerous commonality when speaking of Adam and Eve - the de-emphasis (sometimes ignoring) the consequence of their failing the test and what it means for us and our ability to choose or the power of contrary choice (good or evil). Remember, the consequence of failing the test was instant death. Did Adam and Eve instantly die in the garden? God said they would so in what sense did they instantly die? And how does this “death” impact our ability to choose between spiritual good and evil? So scriptures tell is that as a consequence of Adams sin that he died to God. As a consequence for us as sons and daughters of Adam - we are spiritually dead to God as well - apart from Gods saving grace at the moment of salvation through Christ or “the new birth”. Remember “you must be born again”? So what does this mean? Apart from the new birth all mankind is spiritually dead to God and lack the power of contrary choice (to choose between spiritual good and evil) as Adam and Eve had prior to their fall. We inherited Adam and Eve’s fallen nature not their perfect nature they had when they could commune with God. (Jer. 4:22; Rom. 3:10-18) Adam and Eve died to the spiritual God. (God is a spirit). In the garden Adam and Eve lost their spiritual life - that which connects them to God and allowed them to commune with God. This is why Adam and Eve were banished from the garden AND the presence of God. And it wasn’t temporary - God barred the re-entrance into the garden with an angel of death wielding a fiery sword. Re-entry into the garden, re-entry into the presence of God would require One who could endure the fiery judgement (trial) of God and live again afterwards. A “second Adam” (Christ) in the presence of God, communing with God (the garden) in our stead and for us and we THROUGH Christ reunited with God IN CHRIST who is our righteousness before God. 🙏🏾
Hello Jude Project, there is a mind blowing controversial interpretation of the scriptures of both Genesis chapter 1 2 and 3. I will love to speak with you to discuss to rightly divide the word truth to bring to light to the Body of Christ. The truth need to be told about the scriptures, and those metaphors. We have been accepting the interpretation of systematic theology and not the the truth of the Holy Spirit. After graduating from a prominent Christian university and much research, there is an explanation of the story of Adam and Eve. Hope to hear from you soon.
The question was, Was Adam & Eve set up for failure by God? Answers given: Basically spoke in Christianese & spoke in circles. Did not answer the question. There was a lot of “I think” and “What I believe is” opinions. My answer would be: Yes. God did set them up to fail. As a parent, if you leave knives and loaded firearms out in the open of your home and leave your children home alone without any adult supervision while you go to work. You tell your kids, don’t touch that firearm or that knife, because if you do surely you will die. Are you setting your kids up for success or failure?
Okay the problem with a question like this is that it requires a literal interpretation of the genesis myth. You can't take the genesis myth literal while writing off the creation myths of other cultures. According to the Greeks, Prometheus, a titan, created humans while according to the Norse, Odin and his brothers created man and woman from trees. In some native myths, the raven is credited with creating the world and humans.
Please read Isaiah 55 verse 11 understand YHWH Word it is important to know that that his Commandments are his will and cannot return unto him void meaning empty you have to know when he speaks his word is so
No, I don't think so because biblically you will have a new body and the old things will be passed away. Adam and Eve were not in heaven. So sin won't be present in heaven you won't even be given to marriage because everything is changed. Remember the Apostle Paul said we will be transformed in a twinkling of an eye
@@itsintheword230 Thanks for answering my question. I have a 2nd question. Why God created Adam & Eve with the ability to disobey Him(God) when in the end no christian will have the ability to disobey God? There seems 2 be a contradiction. Adam & Eve had the ability to disobey God in a sinless place but christians will not have the ability to disobey God in a sinless place.
@@itsintheword230 There seems to be another contradiction. Lucifer had the ability to disobey God in Heaven but christians will not have the ability to disobey God in Heaven.
@@DJ-uc8mk I can not physically prove Heaven & the Garden of Eden exist. Heaven and the Garden of Eden is a belief. I don't have any evidence that supports the existence of Heaven & the Garden of Eden .
But God had to know how Adam and Eve would have been deceived because He created them? So why create Eve if He already knew she would eat of the tree and deceive Adam?
Honestly, there’s something I’m willing to be misunderstood about, because I believe there’s areas of scripture we don’t allow to freely and clearly speak. If you can find this please share it with me. Where does it say that God knows all?
Why would God create you knowing you’d make the wrong decisions in life? Why would he create you knowing that you’d sin in life and could potentially go to hell? Like the gentleman said in the video, free will is one of the things that makes us human. God taking that away from us makes God more of a dictator than the JUST God he is.
@@selah6001 God made Hell for Lucifer and the fallen angels not humans. God gave humans free will. Would you want to force someone to love you or choose to love you on their own free will? God is a loving and forgiving God. It he is also a Just God meaning He has to apply His Word accordingly. He sent His Son Jesus as a sacrifice to save humanity. God gave us a way out. IF you truly believe in Jesus Christ as Gods Son born of a Virgin and died on the cross for our sins and resurrected the third day you are saved. Once saved always saved. If you truly love God your heart will be thirsty for the Word of God and will have the desire to obey His Word. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to live inside all believers to help guide us through life. It is impossible to live as a Christian with our own power. God cannot tolerate sin so this is why His son Jesus is the intermediary between man and God. No one can access God without the saving grace of Christ’s cleansing blood to wash away our sin. If you have doubts pray to Jesus and ask for wisdom. If you ask with a pure heart He will answer you in His timing.
No, God did not set them up fail. Love is a freedom to choose who and what to follow. Adam decided to just as many men continue to and that is follow the woman instead of following God. Listening to woman(god substitute) he fails, society falls.
No version of Christianity makes this make sense. Here's the jenga piece for me that makes the whole thing fall. It goes Perfection cannot Beget anything other than Perfection.. Unless it so chooses... which renders it responsible. We were designed imperfect on purpose. Fundamentally designed unable to fulfill a so called perfect God's standard. There is no conceivable way around this logic. And free will is not an answer Because not only did God create all our wills with the qualities that they have (weak, strong, deception prone, etc) But also HE is "perfect" AND had "free will." And yet he could not simply Replicate Himself in image bearers... Wait... So logically where would there be room for anything to get lost in translation?...🤔🤔 Yep there's freedom and greater understanding outside of this stuff man. Christianity is an unprovable unfalsifiable Fear/Shame-Stockholm based Overlay on reality, Remove the mind control overlay And think for youself. Whatever created us will be proud of you for doing so. Now go be Divine Sovereign and Free over yourself in the true likeness of your Designer. Because everything you need to Evolve is already within you. You are imperfect but Sufficent. You need not be codependent on anyone's savior. You are designed to learn to work well on your own (True Godly/Godlike Virtue 1 to 1) Which would reflect a good Designer. Believe that and have faith in and recognition of your Sufficiency. And out of that you shall Evolve
In my estimation, the purpose of God was for the fall to take place. If man would have never sinned, then there would be no need for a Redeemer to come. No cross. No forgiveness of sin. No grace. No mercy. No compassion. No justice or punishment of sinful men. But God is in the business of glorifying Himself. And what better way to display His moral attributes than through the fall of man.
Thats powerful... It makes me think of Corona Virus... The powers that be seem to always create a problem that forces you to take their solution.. If bible god dont plant the tree then we dont need jesus.. If the man dont create carona then we wouldnt well yall wouldnt need the vaccine. Same players playing the same game.
@@DJ-uc8mk I don't ascribe to your analogy. For sinners to be forgiven and saved from their sins Jesus is necessary. The vaccine is not necessary for survival. People can live without the vaccine. But people cannot live without Christ. To reject Him is death.
@@emiliobeltran5252 I feel what you saying but you applying belief and faith.. Im just using facts. The folks who told you about a talking snake are the same folks who gave you your jesus.. You believed them when they told you about the snake therefore you believe them when they gave you jesus. Well many of us believe the folks who gave us covid and now we believe them and accept their solution to covid which is the vaccine. Its the same thing You believe we have sinners and others believe that covid is extremely deadly.... So the both of yall accept the problem introduced to you and accept the solution that was introduced to you. And in both scenarios the solution and the problem were both introduced to you by the same people
@@DJ-uc8mk You apply belief and faith yourself. If you've ever traveled on an airplane, taken an uber or taken medication that was prescribed by a doctor.. then you yourself have acted on faith. Moreover, you're analogy is still a miss. Rejecting the vaccine will not kill you. Rejecting Christ will.
@@emiliobeltran5252 Beltran No sir. Having faith on an airplane pilot is different than having faith in jesus.. We have knowledge that airlines put their pilots through severe training.. With that knowledge we apply faith.. But it starts off with knowledge.. Something we can see if we choose to go see... We can look at the stats of the airline safety records and make decisions based on that.. With jesus there are no facts... The book starts off with talking snakes and 500 year old men building boats.. There are no facts with that.. That is mythology. And there no facts saying rejecting jesus will kill you... Thats foolishness.
Good conversation. ....But a point to be made: Did the angels who were thrown out have the ability to choose God opposed to Lucifer?....Angels aren't human...Da Truth said the ability to choose makes us human😏😁....Romans said starting from Adam, ALL are accounted under sin...And likewise all who are under the Saviour Jesus Christ are accounted as the freed justified by faith...So I wouldn't use the term that " God set them up for failure", but there was a strategic plan from the very beginning to bring glory to our Lord Jesus and the Father....So who's got the balls(foolish heart) to question God's authority and sovereignty?....Maybe it was a setup for them to fail intrinsically, so that all glory goes to God as we would have to all put our faith in God as Saviour and Lord...Coming from God, the creator of all things, that's a good thing, whether it's a setup or ability to choose..God is the author of all things and he is Holy and Good...If all things were made in holiness and purity then how did Lucifer the angel, turn against God, being a top angel without God knowing about it?....Jesus said Satan was a murderer "from the beginning"...Food for thought....
God setting Adam and Eve up???? That's like saying as parents do we set our children up when we have a stove, silverware and sharp objects or even a gun in the home and tell them not to touch it. so does that mean we set them up? We will never be able to understand everything of God because his ways are far above our ways. Just stay with the Bible and follow Jesus Christ, we are not going to figure this out. The bigger question is how you going again by the Holy Spirit? Because trying to figure out what happened in Genesis and a person is not even Born Again by the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ then it doesn't profit anything
I would recommend “The Story of Redemption’” by Ellen White, it answered these kind of questions and sets you on the path for seeing the world through God’s eyes.
God didn’t create them to fail, God is outside of time so we can’t understand it but he already knows the end and beginning, if I record the nba finals and my dad watches it while I’m at work and tells me lakers win, I know the outcome already but those players still had free will. When I watch I will enjoy etc. but God is just like that but even greater , he is outside of time and he already knows but allows it to happen because free will
According to our apostle paul’s ministry in The King James Bible,we are only saved by believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ,1st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross,shed His Blood for all of our sins,was buried and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ Shed Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.
Pre-determinism is why I can’t rock with Calvinism, it doesn’t make logical sense and there’s no biblical precedence for it. Just like Da truth said, “ not having the ability to choose would make us something other than human”
The real story is that of they lied about history buried FACTS and told lie what you think they did to your bibles who is really jesus christ and why God has so many names why you don't know your Creator personal but given religion instead?
People of God I can only speak on my experience what I went through. Everything in life is predestined what this means is that God foreknew before hand when nothing existed God had a planned then He predestined stages of life to every roads that would lead you back to him.. Everything has its limitations and your life course will end. (Read Ecclesiastes 3). And not just Adam and Eve set up to failed. I believe Judas who betrayed Jesus was also set up to play a role in Jesus's death. My point and what I'm saying is that these church people who have all these gifts and titles, a little power in God is a dangerous thing if we dont invest in his will and his glory. we're doomed, Life is like the board game chess God is King he's sitting on his throne Moving the pieces where his will and purpose will be done on Earth as this is in heaven, politically, media, social, that's why things are not what they appear to be. We only have a small part to play. The Bible says every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is the son of God. All we can do and say, yes or no Let the Church Say Amen.
If the omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Most High Alohim or, "God", is really the one that created Adam & Eve & told them not to eat from the tree, than, YES, He did set them up. Alohim would still be just considering that: 1. The Most High YAH Alohim decides what is good and what is evil. 2. The Most High is sovereign. 3. We are insignificant little specs in the entirety of existence, let alone, in this universe. 4a. We really DO NOT have "knowledge of good and evil". The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" probably just REDUCED the OBJECTIVE moral knowledge that mankind probably did have to SUBJECTIVE socially constructed morality and NOT anything objectively real. 4b. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" not only caused what was just previously mentioned, but it probably caused mankind (and perhaps other creatures) to be thrown into the illusory "reality" of the FUNCTIONS of good and evil (moral and natural) experience. Consider also that "and He saw it was good" (paraphrase) is referring to function, not morality.
"We have the prerogative to choose, but not the privilege to determine the outcome." WHEW YA'LL
How true is that statement. We dont know the outcome of some of our choices?
@@nickjones1314
I think in this context the operative word is *"DETERMINE"* that makes the difference.
@@1KingD I think you are correct. However one can make a STRONG argument that we can determine the outcome....
@@nickjones1314
You can presume what the outcome MIGHT be, but one can't determine their outcome. If your "PRESUMPTION" ends up being right, that doesn't necessarily mean u determined the outcome. I agree that certain things do have a predictable outcome, but that's another conversation all to itself.
@@1KingD 🤩🤩🤩
This is such a significant conversation. There is so many details that we are not privy to, due to our own limited understanding and human experience. The Bible is created in such a way for us to understand, but the MYSTERIES of GOD are ever revealing. In the end, we either trust THE MOST HIGH’s (JEHOVAH) heart or not. Through my experience, I choose to TRUST HIM.
The foreknowledge of GOD, doesn’t interfere with our will to choose.
Who told you that?
@@cleaningagents4586 According to biblical evidence.
@@robinsonjean-louis4586 then please provide the biblical evidence if you don't mind?
@@cleaningagents4586 Matthew 26:24-25; Mark 14: 27-31.
@Robinson Jean-Louis You Said in your initial statement that the "Foreknowledge of God does not interfere will our will to choose".
Then why would you provide me with a scripture that is showing the exact opposite of your claim?
Judas is a prime example that the foreknowledge of God does interfere with our will to choose. The fact that the foreknowledge of God had already dictated and ordained that Judas would make the very choice that he made, and this was dictated and ordained before the world even begin which means it was before Judas even was born. Jesus, being God in Flesh, already knew beforehand those who would not believe and who it would be that would betray him. This is what he clearly clearly said in John 6:64.
And company this with the fact of the matter is that the Lord Almighty has already declared "FROM THEVERY BEGINNING OF TIME" all things that would occur upon the Earth all the way thru unto the very end of time - THE CHOICES THAT PEOPLE OR MEN MAKE ARE A DIRECT RESULT OF THE VERY FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD. This is because it is his foreknowledge, that supersedes and dictates all the things that happened up on the face of the Earth. (Ephesians 1:11, Ecc. 3:14).
Man's choices are not what's determining what goes on in this world, it is the ordained plan of God that he established in his foreknowledge, before the heavens and earth were even created.
You really picked the wrong verses to try to uphold your belief that the foreknowledge of God does not interfere with our human will to choose.
Ephesians 1:11, Isaiah 46:10, Ecc. 3:14, Proverbs 16:1-4 is much proof that the full knowledge of God and what he's ordained before the world began dictates everything that is happening in the Earth, yes that includes your choices and mine.
He did such a great job on answering that question! Thanks Jude 3!
@@ArchAGabriel I don’t think we watched the same video.
@@selah6001 but "Strong G" is right. The answer that he gave was not an accurate answer.
He also provided no scriptural proof as a witness for his answer. And, how can he get past Isaiah 46:10, Ephesians 1:11-12, Ecc. 3:14?
DaTruth did not answer the question correctly.
God granting them the opportunity to choose him.
Riiiiight.
He gives them a very specific and accessible temptation, the consequences of which they couldn't have possibly understood until after they succumbed to it.
It's the most ass backward and moronic story in the bible.
That statement is completely false. The father and the sons words do not contradict one another. You just stated that He grants them the opportunity to choose him. Jesus said specifically in John 15:16-17, do not choose me, but I have chosen you and ordained you that you may go forth and that much fruit.
The father did not give a opportunity, he appointed his son to choose. I have a question for you if the son of god, Jesus Christ himself, tells his followers that we do not choose him, what kind of theology, what kind of answer, would you give that will go directly against his very words that he spoke? How can you disrespect the savior and go against the very words that he said himself? He said his self,"YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU".
HOW YOU GOING TO GO AGAINST HIS SIMPLE CLEAR WORDS THAT WERE SPOKEN EMPHATICALLY?
But he already knew they weren't going to "choose" him.
They already had him though. He tricked them into falling away from him with the tree. They didn't even know what death was.
@@snoopyco07 What I wonder to The full most is why couldn't The God of The Bible have just given his creation a perfect nature from The start??? So That There wouldn't even have to be a such Thing as Sin or A Judgement Day for That matter???
If tech designers can make and design computerized phones Then The God of The Bible SHOULD have The Power to do infinitely better.
I am 36 years old by the way, Black American male.
One beautiful about how God chose to relate with us is that he knows our ability to both fail and not to fail yet he relates like we will not fail him, we're given benefit of doubt if like, let me put it this way, you have a friend who is poor in time management, there is an appointment for a business meeting with people that requires his/her presence, to prevent him/her from coming late, you start to remind the person, hours before time continuously but if the friend eventually comes late, you already know that is his/her weakness, the person had a choice to make and he/she made that choice to be late, the Holy Spirit keeps drawing our attention to avoid certain things yet keep making choices.
If God controlled every decision we made, making no provisions for an ability to choose with a free will, all of us would then be able to hold God responsible for every consequence associated with each action. In that scenario, anything less than God being responsible for our choices, He would cease to be just.
Wow that’s a very good explanation
...except he didn't need to control their decisions. That's not even the issue.
The god character of the bible created them ignorant, and they had no way to comprehend the consequences of their actions beforehand.
Even if they could understand th he consequences, there's no possible way they could have understood the full scope of those consequences.
Iwhat you just said is beyond stupid.
@@lcceo22 Do you realize that your comment is a classic case of eisegesis, ie: reading your presupposed assumption into the Bible? You wrongly assume that Adam and Eve were ignorant, but that assumption is nowhere in Scripture. If you go back and read Genesis 2:17, God commanded them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, not just a tree of knowledge. Adam and Eve, being made in the image of God were far from ignorant, my friend. And even if what you’re suggesting is true, that they were ignorant of any action leading to a consequence, the very fact that God gave them an instruction accompanied with a consequence of death upon disobedience, directly refutes your argument. I hope this helps gives you some clarity on the account of the Garden of Eden. Take care.
@@stephendavis5866 No, I don't "realize" that I'm reading a presupposed assumption into the bible, because I didn't do that. I save the presuppositions for Christian apologists.
I didn't "assume" that the Adam and Eve characters in this myth were ignorant. It's pretty clear from scripture that they were. What, exactly, do you think "knowledge of good and evil" encompasses?
It certainly encompasses the understanding that it's wrong to disobey a directive from their god. It certainly encompasses the understanding that it's good to do what that god says.
And no, god giving them an instruction and telling them they would surely die doesn't in any way refute my argument. In fact, it supports my argument.
They were absolutely ignorant of the consequences. These characters lived in a paradise, and would have had no reference point to their own death. How would two people, who have only ever lived in a paradise, have any reasonably sophisticated understanding of the concept of death?
Further, how can two people, ignorant of the concepts of good and evil- and thus, no moral frame of reference- be capable of grasping the idea that they were doing something wrong by eating of that tree? Even if they were told not to, eating the fruit of that tree would be the only way they'd be able to grasp this.
Worse? GOD LIED! They didn't die. They were simply chastized and kicked out. Oh, they *eventually* died, and the best response you can have there is that god never said when, which is about as disiengenuous as it gets. But it also illustrates that the god character here is guilty of not giving the whole truth.
And it gets much, much worse for the character of god, or more appropriately, the lack of character shown by this god. Because not only did they not die after eating the fruit, (again, they'd die after an extremely long time, living far longer than any humans in recorded history) but the consequences were much worse than that .
The bible doesn't say that god informed them prior to eating of that tree that they would have billions of descendants, a great many of which would suffer in ways unimaginable to Adam or Eve, up to and including damnation, seperation from god, and a portion of those descendants being sent to a lake of fire to burn for all eternity.
At no point in the bible does god say, "if you eat of this tree, your descendants will, as a result, become so horrible and depraved that I'll murder every last one of them in a flood. I'll spare 7 people who will then have to start this whole thing all over from scratch, but yeah, I'll murder the rest of your descendants. By the way, this is just the tip of the iceberg, because things will much, much worse for your descendants after that, and I'll have to kinda sorta come to Earth as my own son to be murdered, in order to save some of your descendants, but the rest will burn in a lake of fire".
And that's the biggest problem here: The consequences of their actions are the single most severe consequences of any action taken by any person in all of human history, and yet they were given a temptation without even being told anything remotely close the full scope of those consequences, much less given the ability to properly understand the good or evil their actions could potentially unleash as a result. The real consequences were exponentially worse than the one they were told.
I have great clarity regarding the garden of eden account in the bible. You- and most Christians- are the ones who don't quite understand what happened there. You're blinded by indoctrination and apologetics.
You're also smug, arrogant in the mistakenly belief that critics of your myth simply don't know enough about it. You're woefully incorrect on that.
I hope this helps you see your religion for the obvious myth that it is, because it doesn't even make narrative sense, let alone hold as a true account of actual events, and it's a monstrously moral failure.
@@lcceo22 FYI God did not lie to Adam and Eve that they would die if they eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil because they died spiritually FIRST than naturally concerning the body. Unfortunately you wouldn't understand spiritual things because YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD YOURSELF until YOU believe and receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
The Bible seems foolish to spiritually dead people until they become alive in Christ Jesus once they believe in Him.
Wow I was just praying about this. Helps me understand a little better! God you so Awesome 🙌🏾
Trina
The answer that he gave was not an accurate answer.
He also provided no scriptural proof as a witness for his answer. And, how can he get past Isaiah 46:10, Ephesians 1:11-12, Ecc. 3:14?
DaTruth did not answer the question correctly.
Trina I have a question. How was that a great answer that he provided? And where was his two or three biblical scriptural witnesses for his answer? I'm asking this truly out of a honest and pure heart? I am not asking this question out of evil motive or anything so please please please don't think so. If you could, please please provide me an answer to the question that I asked please?
This is deep, I salute the Grace on Da T.R.U.T.H and FLAME🙏
One individual asked me like why would a loving God allow satan to exist in eden where he knew that HE placed and put HIS only children in?
And that why didn't GOD just eliminate the devil the first day he rebelled?
My response was that GOD is a loving GOD, if HE had eliminated the devil in the presence of the other Angels, we wouldn't have been serving GOD out of love buh fear. Fear that if we rebel against GOD, HE will kill us, and that would have contradicted HIS nature of LOVE.
GOD desires us to worship HIM in truth and spirit, hence HE needs souls that will WORSHIP HIM in truth and spirit.
This has enlightened me so much.
I Bless God for Da T.R.U.T.H and FLAME🙏
Thank you🙌
LOVING NATURE?? Bible god drowned a world's worth of babies puppies and pregnant women.. If bible god loves us and hates the devil, why is he drowning us and giving Belzebub a court date. How you drown a fetus who is not responsible for anything but continue to wait zillions of years to give the devil justice..
We are so intelligent but we turn the lights off when we talk about this bible
Look young Fella. I think we both agree that the Sun does more for mankind than any god that man has EVER introduced to us. All of us can live without the bible.. We can still reproduce without alah and the quaran. The animals would not skip a beat if krishna and jesus and maat disappeared. But if that sun goes away life stops... The sun provides 100% of our medicine and 100% of our food helps with oxygen and vision and it keeps us warm. The sun does all of this and nothing in nature requires us to worship the sun. NOTHING... Nothing requires worship except man and the gods that man creates.. Zeus and bible god and odin need worship and blood sacrifice.. But in nature, there is nothing that requires worship, blood sacrifice or slavery. These are desires of men and being that man creates and introduces his gods to other men, these same desires are found in the gods that man creates...
No god desires you to worship it.
## Tell me one god that desires worship that man did NOT have to tell you that said god desires worship
Thanks for the conversation. Definitely a thought of mine over years. Still KEPT & no all the answers aren’t satisfying but He’s still good.
It would've been a set up if God didn't warn them about the consequences if they disobeye him.
But they didn't understand the consequences. Nobody had ever died before, so they didn't even know what death was. And god never told them death would apply to every human forever. He tricked them.
My follow up question will be "did the devil deceive Eve on the first try or were there many failed attempts prior to Eve falling for the lie to eat the fruit?"
The enemy will always try to deceive us, individually, to see what it takes to trick us.
Excellent question....
The bruh is correct in that God wants us to choose
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise....but is patient, not wanting anybody to perish, but that everybody should come to Him"
But he is not correct in saying that the events in the garden were not by His design
"I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times what is still to come"
And concerning those who are Gods people
"Even as he chose us in him from before the world began, that we should be holy and blameless before him"
So what does this mean? It means that if you are seeking to remain in God and struggling against sin...sometimes winning and sometimes loosing. Take heart because God knows you are his and from before time he knew how to get you across that finish line. So keep fighting, don't give in, and know that God will move mountains for you.
This was an amazing conversation you all were having and that’s one of the questions others wanted to ask or have been thinking about. But thank you all for sharing with us! 💗💗😁🙏🙌God bless you
good answer by the brother in blue, and today we still have with the same opportunity to through the word of GOD, we can either get his knowledge and see the world in his way OR get the corrupted knowledge of the world and fail ... the choice is ours, the knowledge of GOD is free to get it. Be Bless
Okay but like, God is all knowing and knew the ending right at the beginning. So why make people in the first place? It's great that He gave us a choice and all but before he gave us a choice, weren't we sort of forced to be alive? Struggling with the concept of a good father. I know He's a good God but a father? Would a good parent purposefully place their child in a world that would fail them?...
God's ways are far above our ways. Its just like a parent bringing a child into this crazy world knowing the dangers of it but regardless that adult still wants children in the Earth that reflect them and look like them and that they can raise to become adults and continue the family lineage. So that parent is doing exactly what God did. It's not a setup, you instill values into your children to prepare them for life ahead but when they become old enough they have to make a decision rather than choose those values or go astray because of a different voice or influence they have yielded themselves too.
We can't say God for stuff to be alive, that's like saying a parent force a child to be born into the Earth or you and I being forced to live in this earth while at the same time enjoying the blessings of it
Okay well, I question parents who bring children into this world as well, so although I see where you're coming from it doesn't exactly answer my question.(For the record I do not condone abortion and that is not what I'm saying)
We as people do not know the ending or whether our children will serve God. More of a gamble I'd say. God, however, does. Before he made people, He knew the road to Him would be a narrow one and only few would choose Him.
This all happened to reveal the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ......Adam and Eve is the reality of humanity without God..."Free will I have often heard of, but I have never seen it. I have always met with will, and plenty of it, but it has either been led captive by sin or held in the blessed bonds of grace."
- C. H. Spurgeon ....I recommend John Pipers series "Spectacular sins and their global impact for the Glory of God"
If Imma fail and bring death and punishment and suffering on myself, don't give me a choice to choose then. And it sounds like he did set us up for failure. Why did he even make the devil??? Everything would have been perfect without him.
I have felt the same way for a while
Ok well and you wake up everyday to live for and pursue what exactly?
God didn't create the devil, He created lucifer, lucifer decided to become the devil out of his own free will. And the thing with us- well it's like this, God is loving, and He would rather us choose to love Him back and follow and obey Him than force us to do it. If He forced us it wouldn't be love, and that's not God. He gave us free will, the ability to choose what we wanted but we don't have the ability to choose the outcome. When we sin, destruction comes after, He doesn't like your choice but He will honor the choice you made bc that is what you wanted. It's also why the Gospel is so important and amazing. It demonstrates God's mercy and love bc even tho humans chose to go down a path of destruction and misery, instead of leaving and letting us die (which is what we deserve), He gave us a way to go back to Him through His Son Jesus Christ. Hope this clears everything up. ❤️
@@sydnipollard4920 he knew exactly the monster he would become. ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED! No disrespect it’s just common knowledge at this point. I’m not tryna piss off God 😂 just having a genuine what he heck moment so excuse me.
I’m greatful someone was able to answer this question I have so many questions similar to this he really did a great job opening understanding on all sides 🤘
DMV I have a question. How was that a great answer that he provided? And where was his two or three biblical scriptural witnesses for his answer? I'm asking this truly out of a honest and pure heart? I am not asking this question out of evil motive or anything so please please please don't think so. If you could, please please provide me an answer to the question that I asked please?
I ask myself all the time, “where was God while the serpent tempted Eve?” He knew it was happening and did not intervene. But, you all should read Plantinga’s take on “Transworld Depravity.” Essentially, human beings from the outset had the *potential to sin and because they did sin, would sin in every possible world that God could have created with the various conditions required to maintain things like an ability to choose as moral free-agents. God must have had a plan in place (what we now know on this side of the cross as his eternal purpose of redemption through Christ) that in order to reach his desired result (ie redemption of his people) it was necessary that man sin and no other logical method could be employed to reach said goals that God has/had. Other goals he had in mind would play here as well.
I’m a firm believer in a Greater Good Theodicy. That for every evil that exists or takes place, God has a greater good for allowing it to take place, even if that good won’t be realized until we are trillions of years in the future.
Beautifully written. Imma share this.
Remember Jesus was the Lamb of God slained before the foundation of the world
Humans don't sin in heaven, so obviously we wouldn't sin in every possible world. Your god could have created this world without sin also, but he chose to include evil and sin and then blame it all on Adam. But that was his plan all along.
The greater good theodicy is evil. I want to see you tell some starving baby that god has a greater plan as they die in pain. That's just evil. Every human life is valuable, but your religion says if your god wants to drown people or let them starve to death, then that's all good. But it's not good, it's evil.
I believe that there's a GOD obviously but to say that there's a "man" in the sky in heaven somewhere sounds ridiculous. Life is about balance. In order for their to be good, their must be evil. One cannot exist without the other. All of that King James version of the bible is NOT what was taught by Africans in Ancient Africa when they were practicing Christianity
@@JL0007 "humans don't sin in heaven, so obviously we wouldn't sin in every possible world" is a statement that is lacking some information and biblical insight. How do humans get to heaven? It is through salvation and Jesus Christ- the only begotten son that God sacrificed for our sins. It is important to recognize this because God created us in His image and there wasn't any sin. You may have read that Lucifer was in heaven and he led 1/3 of angels against God and had a war in heaven and he was cast out and became a fallen angel down on earth. With that said, God does not make anyone do anything so all 'worlds' have free choice. He created a world of free choice but not without His sovereignty and that includes His love and grace as well as His law and wrath. Sin came into the world through Adam and salvation came through Jesus. God law was to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve chose to do so-- that is not to blame them, but to see how that choice led to sin entering the world. Starving babies, homeless, sick, dying etc is not what God originally created in the garden! He did not sacrifice his son Jesus to die on the cross because he blamed Adam. This is why we will have a new heaven and new earth. You can choose to blame God and seek your own understanding of the truth or choose Jesus and eat from the tree of life which is the living word of God.
I've worried my entire life about this one story because it contradicts itself
Wonderful work you do. Can you please make your sessions longer they are too deep to be this short. I followed your work for long time now and very pleased.
If your choice and the consequences of your choice is predetermined...is it still free will?
Exactly! no one can ever give an answer for this when it's asked... 🤔
How is it free will if They literally had no concept of morality until after they ate the fruit?
It would have been nice if they had their bibles out so we could see scriptural truth to their answers. But it was good👍
This channel is amazing!! Keep it up!! GOD bless
where are they getting their answers from? They didn't quote any Scripture.
I was thinking the same thing. None of their answers are biblical.
Joshua 24 vs 15.
Shalom beautiful people of The Most High God and many blessings to you and your beautiful families (personal/ministry).
Beautiful discussion. And what is so beautiful about this is, is the fact that everyone who imparted revelation regarding this actually shed light on the fact that man cannot live dependent outside of The LORD God. The fall of Adam and Eve shows us how much mankind need God in order to live in this image of His and His life. We cannot do it by ourselves.
Because trying to live outside of God and His image is literally a set up for failure.
This is what happened to Lucifer when he fell. The enemy satan thought he could live outside of God's system and how he was designed to function but he ended up reaping dire consequences for his actions.
We are not designed to function outside of the breath of God. And living from our humanity or "human side" is not enough because we are created in an image that expresses eternity and eternity cannot be expressed from the human side of man alone. We are designed to function from our spirit man. It is this realm that expresses the fullness of Jesus Christ and The Godhead.
Satan did trick Adam and Eve into believing that they could express the fullness of this nature from their humanity or soul realm, but he purposely did this to them because he knew they would be restricted and bound to the expression of their human side, the soul life when in fact we are much more than that.
He didn’t trick Adam.
Adam knew. Eve was deceived and Satan was right. He asked her. Did God tell YOU?
The answer was NO, because she was not created when God took Adam to the tree and showed him which one to eat and which one not to eat.
There was no they. It was him.
She had not been taken out of him when God took him to the tree and made it plan, simple and clear to him. What tree. Where the tree was and told him when YOU ( not y’all) but when you eat there of you will SURELY (for sure) die.
Don’t put the woman in this. He knew. He knew better. Because God made it clear to him. The power was his.
Who wrote this creation story
@@DJ-uc8mk
It’s in the Bible (The book of Genesis)
Your guess is good as mines.
@@queendove6376 AKA we don't know.. Who are we allowing speak to us on behalf of a god. We interview babysitters and even the folks who watch our pets when we leave town... The uber driver has her profile available when she pick you up, but we dont know who we are giving the power to speak to us on behalf of god.
@@DJ-uc8mk
No one!
You can speak to God for yourself.
The Bible are people who have had unique experiences with God and shared their stories.
But those who trust and believe in their stories do it by faith.
I believed and I prayed to God in faith and God revealed Himself to me and now I have my own testimony.
You either believe or you don’t.
The choice is all yours and others have to make their own decision too.
In the case of Job, it was God who raised the question "Did you considered 'my servant' Job?". God did it twice in the book. Seems like it was in the plan of God for a greater purpose.
Michael - you are right. The answer that he gave was not an accurate answer.
He also provided no scriptural proof as a witness for his answer. And, how can he get past Isaiah 46:10, Ephesians 1:11-12, Ecc. 3:14?
DaTruth did not answer the question correctly.
Flame & Da Truth - Lisa you are the woman!!!!
That's something I've wrestled with. Why put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place? I understand choice but it's like putting something in front of a child and saying don't touch it.
Know exactly how you feel
I look at it like this. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was there by default because God is good and created good and evil. Becuase evil is the absence of good which is a natural default. It's not like God waved a piece of candy in front of Adam and Eve, Satan did. He perverted the truth and tempted them. God didn't do that.
Also just because someone knows what going to happen doesn't mean they want it to happen. God is sovereign but also loving so in his wisdom he handles the situation how he chooses. If he is the most wise he knows how to get to the best outcome for those He loves. In our limited human knowledge and wisdom we can't see the whole picture. Hope this makes since. Great question and concern.
I enjoy these type of exchanges and builds.
I love this. So good and interesting to watch and learn from. :)
This was a great question! I definitely learned something new 😀
Saying God gave them an opportunity to choose makes no sense because according to the bible, he knows the end from the beginning. So with that being the case, what's the point giving them such opportunity when you already know what the outcome would be??
Because despite God knowing everything, He will not make choices for us.
We have to.
@Dare Sholanje - There was no they. It was him.
She had not been taken out of him when God took him to the tree and made it plan, simple and clear to him. What tree. Where the tree was and told him when YOU ( not y’all) but when you eat there of you will SURELY (for sure) die.
Don’t put the woman in this. He knew. He knew better. Because God made it clear to him. The power was his.
First, I'm glad you had the courage to address this question. Kudos. That said, I find the answers insufficient on many levels. God is omniscient, and knows the future before it happens. God is all powerful, and later in scripture, we see that He had the power to kick Satan out of heaven and later bind satan in hell. He did neither, and allowed him to come to earth. On top of that, throughout scripture the Bible gives warnings about the danger Satan poses, comparing him to a "roaring lion looking to devour and conquer." The Bible urges us to put on the armor of God to protect against satan's schemes. Yet God somehow didn't deem it necessary to warn Adam and Eve about him? The indisputable fact is based upon what is in the creation and fall story, humanity had ZERO record of sinning until they ran into Satan in the garden of eden. As the gentleman who posed the question pointed out, mankind had no concept of death. At best, they had free will, but not informed will. Some have argued that Adam and Eve had no reason to doubt or question God. This may be true, but if the extent of human history up to that point was Adam dealt with Eve, God and the animals, there is zero proof he had any concept of deception. They had no known reason to doubt ANYONE if all they knew was love and honesty from God.. It's the same reason people tell their kids to not talk to strangers. Within that context of not fully understanding the penalty for sin and having zero warning about the threat satan posed when God could have kept that roaring lion away from us in the first place, the death penalty for a first ever offense was spectacularly excessive. On that subject I also question God's love for humanity at that point. Genesis 6:5-7 shows God found us quite disposable and no different from the animals. My question is when did God change His mind about us after that?
Great comment. Very good points 👏 👏
1 Timothy 2:14 Adam was not deceived But the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Ladies and gentlemen, Da T.R.U.T.H. Even thought it’s a bad question. The answer was on point.
I still think he set them up for failure. He could have stopped them, but he didn't.
This is AWESOME!!
He set them up with Choice. The same Choice You're faced to make today!
Choose ye this day,whom ye will serve.
But he already knew what "choice" they were going to make.
@@snoopyco07 But They Still Had A Choice, One or the Other
@@vickig5094 Was it really a choice if the outcome was predtermined?
@@snoopyco07 more so their answers were 'pre-known' He didn't choose for them or us but He KNOWS the result. I think there is a big difference that we sometimes misconstrue?
Thank you for quicker great video!
Wow! This guy must have been in a really oppressive church. Sometimes people follow God out of fear. I don't think that lasts.
There are some things about God we'll never understand. Word!
Awesome Word
Solid discussion.
The intro already got me pelting my shoeeee 👞
God set them up to succeed, satan is the one that set them up to fail
Great interview. Question, what brand of lights are those in the background?
God set them up to fail, that omniscience of his is proof.
First question out the gate was excellent!
What a great statement this is...
Did God set up Adam and Eve for failure?
Yes and the reason why I say that because it was so much more a force on them messing up than it would Adam and Eve making it right (obedience).
There would be no need for God more if obedience was Illustrated in the Garden of Eden.
Psalms 41:10, God is always a present help in trouble.
I love how everybody can come together and have a table talk conversation.
There's certain things in God's way of doing just doesn't sit right with. me. God set up Moses too. Moses a man of God, a priest, a prophet, and a leader.
Moses never made it to the promised land because he got angry.
Moses served and did everything God told him to do.
This was too harsh to me and unfair.
Out of millions and millions of people only two made it in the promised land, Joshua and and Calub.
And I understand there's some things that were not going to understand but it's not easy in the faifh walk.
Our life is predestined we only have a small part to play.
Wow. This is such a thought-provoking comment. Thank you for being brave enough to share your heart. I can relate to this.
Interesting talk! Imo, God didn't set them up. The best way I can explain my reasoning is through another thing that has a similar scenario: sex. God never said we can't have sex. He says we need to wait until we get married to have it, so before a certain age, that makes sense and you're fine with it, but once you reach 9, 10, 11, and etc and your body starts developing and changing, that temptation comes. As you fight it and grow in Christ, you start to understand the depth of sex in God's eyes and why He said it's for marriage only. Despite this, it's still your choice if you want to submit to temptation or not, and depending on your choice, things change. Once you get married and have sex with your spouse, you would enjoy it to the fullest since you protected yourself and partner from the baggage that comes with sexual immortality. If you don't save yourself, you may have problems with your or your spouse's body, (which can affect your spouse for obvious reasons), an STD, trauma, and etc. Outside of sex, you may have to pay child support which means that's X amount of dollars leaving your home, and every cent counts! Plus imagine the "baby mama/daddy drama"!
When you look in Genesis 2 and the beginning of 3, both Adam and Eve were fine with not touching the tree and didn't have a problem with it, it wasn't until Eve entertained Satan via a conversation when that temptation came in. If it was in the garden, that implies that God wanted them to have it, but not at that moment. It was a "Wait", but due to a short convo, everything hit the fan. This isn't the only time in the Bible where people had an issue with waiting on God and due to their impatience or others' words went against what God said.
Who created the garden? Who created the tree of knowledge of good and evil? If it wasn’t in the grand plan of God that man be tempted and fall so that he could learn by his own experience to chose good from evil then why were the conditions so perfectly set. Besides the power to chose, the other aspect that makes humans very unique in a that only be knowing or being exposed to the opposite can we differentiate. How would we know joy if we didn’t know sorrow. How could we chose Christ if we weren’t fallen. Just look at your every day life. You know God and how good it feels because you also know how bad the guilt and pain feels to chose or be exposed to evil. Adam and Eve were in a state of innocence not knowing good from evil. Second, scripturally we have no evidence of them having children until after the fall. Was there something about disobeying God which awakened them to the ability to make a choice to have children?
But if God knew what they would choose, before they chose and still decided to convict them to an eternity of suffering… 🤔
His question wasn’t answered adequately in my humble opinion.
I believe God knew what they would
EVENTUALLY choose
Also, that same serpent was named by Adam. Remember God brought all creatures/animals to Adam and told him to name them. He had dominion from the beginning over the very thing God allowed him to name!!!
That was strong
🙌🏾
If God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, then He knew that Adam and Eve would fail.
‘Cause christ is to be the savior
Is there supposed to be a follow-up to this video? I don't see it.
Jesus is King
**Long response incoming. Read at your own risk**
No offense to the gentlemen in this video brought on to speak, but I found both of their answers to be deeply unsatisfying (to me). The guy in blue says that he “doesn’t see it as God setting Adam and Eve up to fail, but as an opportunity to choose; to be human”, and that the true test of a person’s depth of commitment comes from if you present them with options and see that they will choose you over and over; and that without a test there is no way to truly see the genuineness of a person’s commitment to anything.
I find this response to be unsatisfying because the guy who asked the question, Jason, also brought up how young and inexperienced Adam and Eve were, and they were going up against a great deceiver. This is something that has also been on my mind from a young age. Did God really expect Adam and Eve to not even be curious about the fruit? He made an entire garden for them and said that it all belonged to them, but oh wait, just not this tree (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil).
I can only speak for myself, but if an entire garden was mine and I could have anything I wanted in it, I would be curious as to why I can’t eat from just this one tree, and if it’s so dangerous, why did God place it in the garden in the first place? The bible says (NLT version Gen. 3:1) that the serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals that God had made. The definition of shrewd is “having or showing sharp powers of judgement; malicious, mischievous; astute - being able to assess a situation and turn it to one’s advantage”. Mind you, God made this animal. But why is this type of animal in the garden of Eden to begin with? Why did God make this type of animal at all if he did not want evil in the world?
Adam and Eve only knew God and the garden. They had no concept of lying, deceiving, death, or disobedience, or any of the things that can bring one shame because they literally had no knowledge of good and evil and all the things we claim are moral. They were literally only days old. Telling them not to eat delicious looking fruit in a garden that belongs to them is like placing a marshmallow in front of a toddler and telling them not to eat it. And expecting them to know they are being deceived when they really had no concept of or reason to believe that anyone or anything could ever take advantage of them like that because all they knew was God and the garden, it’s baffling to me then that they were punished so harshly on their FIRST mistake in their entire existence; and that this punishment also extended to the rest of humanity.
A days old human with zero experience and zero knowledge of the world around them and what’s in it VS. a shrewd serpent made by the hands of God that was literally created to be malicious. There is no comparison. It’s a greatly imbalanced scenario and the math is not mathing. It sounds like a set up to me. And to chalk it up to “God is giving us a choice” is not good enough. I can give my five-year-old nephew the choice to run across a street without looking both ways. That doesn’t mean it’s a wise decision and it also doesn’t mean that he will make the right choice. Especially when I have not taught him what can actually happen when darting into a street when cars are coming. We are supposed to teach our children. God did not teach Adam and Eve. He gave a command and expected perfection.
Another thing that doesn’t sit right with me is that God lied to them. I grew up in church and even writing that sentence makes me feel like I’m gonna be struck down. But God specifically tells Adam that “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden, except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die” (Gen. 2:16-17 NLT version). Adam then relays this message to Eve. God told them that if they eat the fruit they will die. But they did NOT die. They became knowledgeable. The bible specifically states that immediately, in that moment, their eyes were opened (Gen. 3:7 NLT version). Why would God tell them they would die if they wouldn’t? Why not tell the truth? That the fruit would show them things that they are not yet supposed to know. This doesn’t mean that Adam and Eve wouldn’t have eaten the fruit if this were the case, but at least God wouldn’t have lied.
And if this was not a set up, then why didn’t God warn Adam and Eve of the serpent? At this moment, before eating the fruit, they had no concept of good vs. evil so therefore they had no reason to mistrust the serpent (who actually told the truth by the way, that the fruit would open their eyes, Gen. 3:4-5 NLT version). Why didn’t God warn them that the serpent would try to convince them to eat the fruit? He sent them in blind and expected them to be perfect when they were only days old and had no knowledge of good vs. evil or right vs. wrong. Again, that sounds like a set up to me.
The guy in the hat in this video explained all of this happening as a testament of God’s love and that he “swooped in with a rescue plan”. Um…how is this love and where is the rescue plan? God got angry with Adam and Eve and CURSED THEM, along with cursing the serpent, before fully kicking them out of the garden of Eden. In God’s curse, he sharpened the pain of pregnancy and declared that childbirth will also be in great pain. He said that husbands will RULE OVER wives and that the ground is now also cursed and only from the sweat of man’s brow will he be able to scratch a living from it. Then God made Adam and Eve some clothing from animal skins and kicked them out of the garden forever. But! Not before this exclamation: “Then the LORD God said, ‘Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!’ So, the LORD God banished them from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made. After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life (Gen. 3:22-24 NLT version).
Please tell me how that is love and a rescue plan. God knows all, and he knew that Adam and Eve were not experienced enough to have any kind of discernment and yet he did not warn them of the serpent, and he told them they would die if they ate the fruit when they really wouldn’t. God wanted perfection, but he created imperfect human beings with the potential for “sin” who had no life experience, then basically lied to them. It doesn’t make sense and the answers given in this video are unsatisfying at best, and misleading at worst. God also never said that Adam and Eve couldn’t eat from the tree of life, yet God’s final statement before banishing them makes plain that he didn’t want them to because he didn’t want them to live forever. Quite frankly, that doesn’t sound like love either. It sounds petty. And spiteful, if I’m being completely honest.
And lastly, who is “us”? This final statement from God is the second time so far in Genesis that God mentions “us” (Gen. 1:26 & Gen. 3:22). Who is “us”? This is a question I’ve asked since I was a child and have never received an actual answer to, even from bible teachers.
We choose but according to the highest inclination of our hearts. Because of our fallen natures our desires become a type of handicap and bondage and so we need a "heart and desire liberation theology". In this sense Jesus is less a 'recruiter" offering choices but more a freer of captives and opener of blind eyes, defeating sin with better desires. Adam was free to choose good or ill before the fall, not after the fall. To present day? well.... I think we are in bondage to our fallen wills needing a heart change in the gospel.
We are Israel. All who accept Jesus as Lord and savior are Israel.
My question with the direction this conversation went is doesn't God already know all our sins past, present and future ? He told Peter that he would deny him 3 times before the rooster crows. He knows what's in our hearts long before we do. I wouldn't say God sent the serpent but the serpent went out around being the serpent and God being all-knowing must have factored that too, He would have known that the devil has it in him to tempt these people ... etc.
Nothing surprises God about us & our thinking and in fact if Adam amd Eve had managed the temptation at the garden we wouldn't have needed a Saviour. We would have no reason to be introduced to Christ since we can hande it all by ourselves.
Where Are The Scriptures?
God had to put something off limits for Adam and Eve because of obedience and to give the right to choose. For example, if there was only 1 man on earth than I would have no choice but to marry him because there were no other options. But if there is more than option than I am making a choice and not being married out of obligation. God gives us a free will. So he did the same for Adam and Eve.
It would have been more loving to not create people just to torture them
Yup
This was a very good video
I always said God used reverse psychology on Adam and Eve. Tell a person don't do something knowing they're going to do it if you tell them not to do it lol.
He knew they’d fail. He knew Satan would enter. Yet, he wants to rescue someone from something that could’ve been prevented completely. Sounds narcissistic.
Overall good response but he sort of backs into the answer to the question of WHY did God put Adam and Eve in that situation. Yes, exercising their will was what Adam and Eve had to do but what was Gods motivation? Gods motivation was to TEST Adam and Eve.
1). They failed the test. And it’s wonderful that everyone recognizes Gods love in the before and aftermath, esp. the picture of Christ seen in Gods provision of a suitable covering.
But here’s a very dangerous commonality when speaking of Adam and Eve - the de-emphasis (sometimes ignoring) the consequence of their failing the test and what it means for us and our ability to choose or the power of contrary choice (good or evil).
Remember, the consequence of failing the test was instant death. Did Adam and Eve instantly die in the garden? God said they would so in what sense did they instantly die? And how does this “death” impact our ability to choose between spiritual good and evil?
So scriptures tell is that as a consequence of Adams sin that he died to God. As a consequence for us as sons and daughters of Adam - we are spiritually dead to God as well - apart from Gods saving grace at the moment of salvation through Christ or “the new birth”. Remember “you must be born again”? So what does this mean? Apart from the new birth all mankind is spiritually dead to God and lack the power of contrary choice (to choose between spiritual good and evil) as Adam and Eve had prior to their fall. We inherited Adam and Eve’s fallen nature not their perfect nature they had when they could commune with God. (Jer. 4:22; Rom. 3:10-18)
Adam and Eve died to the spiritual God. (God is a spirit). In the garden Adam and Eve lost their spiritual life - that which connects them to God and allowed them to commune with God. This is why Adam and Eve were banished from the garden AND the presence of God. And it wasn’t temporary - God barred the re-entrance into the garden with an angel of death wielding a fiery sword. Re-entry into the garden, re-entry into the presence of God would require One who could endure the fiery judgement (trial) of God and live again afterwards. A “second Adam” (Christ) in the presence of God, communing with God (the garden) in our stead and for us and we THROUGH Christ reunited with God IN CHRIST who is our righteousness before God. 🙏🏾
Hello Jude Project, there is a mind blowing controversial interpretation of the scriptures of both Genesis chapter 1 2 and 3. I will love to speak with you to discuss to rightly divide the word truth to bring to light to the Body of Christ. The truth need to be told about the scriptures, and those metaphors. We have been accepting the interpretation of systematic theology and not the the truth of the Holy Spirit. After graduating from a prominent Christian university and much research, there is an explanation of the story of Adam and Eve. Hope to hear from you soon.
Can you expound on that for those of us who aren’t part of Jude Project?
The question was, Was Adam & Eve set up for failure by God?
Answers given: Basically spoke in Christianese & spoke in circles. Did not answer the question. There was a lot of “I think” and “What I believe is” opinions.
My answer would be: Yes. God did set them up to fail. As a parent, if you leave knives and loaded firearms out in the open of your home and leave your children home alone without any adult supervision while you go to work. You tell your kids, don’t touch that firearm or that knife, because if you do surely you will die.
Are you setting your kids up for success or failure?
Okay the problem with a question like this is that it requires a literal interpretation of the genesis myth. You can't take the genesis myth literal while writing off the creation myths of other cultures. According to the Greeks, Prometheus, a titan, created humans while according to the Norse, Odin and his brothers created man and woman from trees. In some native myths, the raven is credited with creating the world and humans.
Just like with Job, God “allowed” it to happen. God did not send the serpent. And that is because of choice … free will.
Good perspective
You just have to have faith
Exactly... Faith is needed most when one has no facts
Please read Isaiah 55 verse 11 understand YHWH Word it is important to know that that his Commandments are his will and cannot return unto him void meaning empty you have to know when he speaks his word is so
Will christians have option(s) or ability to disobey God in Heaven like Adam and Eve had a option or ability to disobey God in the Garden of Eden?
No, I don't think so because biblically you will have a new body and the old things will be passed away. Adam and Eve were not in heaven. So sin won't be present in heaven you won't even be given to marriage because everything is changed. Remember the Apostle Paul said we will be transformed in a twinkling of an eye
@@itsintheword230 Thanks for answering my question. I have a 2nd question. Why God created Adam & Eve with the ability to disobey Him(God) when in the end no christian will have the ability to disobey God? There seems 2 be a contradiction. Adam & Eve had the ability to disobey God in a sinless place but christians will not have the ability to disobey God in a sinless place.
@@itsintheword230 There seems to be another contradiction. Lucifer had the ability to disobey God in Heaven but christians will not have the ability to disobey God in Heaven.
Before you ask questions about heaven and the garden of eden, first look for any evidence that supports their existence.
@@DJ-uc8mk I can not physically prove Heaven & the Garden of Eden exist. Heaven and the Garden of Eden is a belief. I don't have any evidence that supports the existence of Heaven & the Garden of Eden .
But God had to know how Adam and Eve would have been deceived because He created them? So why create Eve if He already knew she would eat of the tree and deceive Adam?
Honestly, there’s something I’m willing to be misunderstood about, because I believe there’s areas of scripture we don’t allow to freely and clearly speak.
If you can find this please share it with me. Where does it say that God knows all?
@@christopherperry3895 I will look it up and share.
Why would God create you knowing you’d make the wrong decisions in life? Why would he create you knowing that you’d sin in life and could potentially go to hell? Like the gentleman said in the video, free will is one of the things that makes us human. God taking that away from us makes God more of a dictator than the JUST God he is.
@@selah6001 God made Hell for Lucifer and the fallen angels not humans. God gave humans free will. Would you want to force someone to love you or choose to love you on their own free will? God is a loving and forgiving God. It he is also a Just God meaning He has to apply His Word accordingly. He sent His Son Jesus as a sacrifice to save humanity. God gave us a way out. IF you truly believe in Jesus Christ as Gods Son born of a Virgin and died on the cross for our sins and resurrected the third day you are saved. Once saved always saved. If you truly love God your heart will be thirsty for the Word of God and will have the desire to obey His Word. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to live inside all believers to help guide us through life. It is impossible to live as a Christian with our own power. God cannot tolerate sin so this is why His son Jesus is the intermediary between man and God. No one can access God without the saving grace of Christ’s cleansing blood to wash away our sin. If you have doubts pray to Jesus and ask for wisdom. If you ask with a pure heart He will answer you in His timing.
Look up the CZcams video called Is God omniscient? On the TCT network. This is a good place to start your Bible study.
No, God did not set them up fail. Love is a freedom to choose who and what to follow. Adam decided to just as many men continue to and that is follow the woman instead of following God. Listening to woman(god substitute) he fails, society falls.
No version of Christianity makes this make sense.
Here's the jenga piece for me that makes the whole thing fall.
It goes
Perfection cannot Beget anything other than Perfection..
Unless it so chooses... which renders it responsible.
We were designed imperfect on purpose. Fundamentally designed unable to fulfill a so called perfect God's standard.
There is no conceivable way around this logic.
And free will is not an answer
Because not only did God create all our wills with the qualities that they have (weak, strong, deception prone, etc)
But also HE is "perfect" AND had "free will."
And yet he could not simply Replicate Himself in image bearers...
Wait...
So logically where would there be room for anything to get lost in translation?...🤔🤔
Yep there's freedom and greater understanding outside of this stuff man.
Christianity is an unprovable unfalsifiable Fear/Shame-Stockholm based Overlay on reality,
Remove the mind control overlay
And think for youself.
Whatever created us will be proud of you for doing so.
Now go be Divine Sovereign and Free over yourself in the true likeness of your Designer.
Because everything you need to Evolve is already within you. You are imperfect but Sufficent. You need not be codependent on anyone's savior. You are designed to learn to work well on your own (True Godly/Godlike Virtue 1 to 1) Which would reflect a good Designer. Believe that and have faith in and recognition of your Sufficiency. And out of that you shall Evolve
God didn't plan for Satan to do that, but He knew it would happen...???
In my estimation, the purpose of God was for the fall to take place. If man would have never sinned, then there would be no need for a Redeemer to come. No cross. No forgiveness of sin. No grace. No mercy. No compassion. No justice or punishment of sinful men. But God is in the business of glorifying Himself. And what better way to display His moral attributes than through the fall of man.
Thats powerful... It makes me think of Corona Virus... The powers that be seem to always create a problem that forces you to take their solution.. If bible god dont plant the tree then we dont need jesus.. If the man dont create carona then we wouldnt well yall wouldnt need the vaccine. Same players playing the same game.
@@DJ-uc8mk I don't ascribe to your analogy. For sinners to be forgiven and saved from their sins Jesus is necessary. The vaccine is not necessary for survival. People can live without the vaccine. But people cannot live without Christ. To reject Him is death.
@@emiliobeltran5252 I feel what you saying but you applying belief and faith.. Im just using facts. The folks who told you about a talking snake are the same folks who gave you your jesus.. You believed them when they told you about the snake therefore you believe them when they gave you jesus. Well many of us believe the folks who gave us covid and now we believe them and accept their solution to covid which is the vaccine. Its the same thing
You believe we have sinners and others believe that covid is extremely deadly.... So the both of yall accept the problem introduced to you and accept the solution that was introduced to you. And in both scenarios the solution and the problem were both introduced to you by the same people
@@DJ-uc8mk You apply belief and faith yourself. If you've ever traveled on an airplane, taken an uber or taken medication that was prescribed by a doctor.. then you yourself have acted on faith. Moreover, you're analogy is still a miss. Rejecting the vaccine will not kill you. Rejecting Christ will.
@@emiliobeltran5252 Beltran No sir. Having faith on an airplane pilot is different than having faith in jesus.. We have knowledge that airlines put their pilots through severe training.. With that knowledge we apply faith.. But it starts off with knowledge.. Something we can see if we choose to go see... We can look at the stats of the airline safety records and make decisions based on that..
With jesus there are no facts... The book starts off with talking snakes and 500 year old men building boats.. There are no facts with that.. That is mythology.
And there no facts saying rejecting jesus will kill you... Thats foolishness.
Good conversation.
....But a point to be made: Did the angels who were thrown out have the ability to choose God opposed to Lucifer?....Angels aren't human...Da Truth said the ability to choose makes us human😏😁....Romans said starting from Adam, ALL are accounted under sin...And likewise all who are under the Saviour Jesus Christ are accounted as the freed justified by faith...So I wouldn't use the term that " God set them up for failure", but there was a strategic plan from the very beginning to bring glory to our Lord Jesus and the Father....So who's got the balls(foolish heart) to question God's authority and sovereignty?....Maybe it was a setup for them to fail intrinsically, so that all glory goes to God as we would have to all put our faith in God as Saviour and Lord...Coming from God, the creator of all things, that's a good thing, whether it's a setup or ability to choose..God is the author of all things and he is Holy and Good...If all things were made in holiness and purity then how did Lucifer the angel, turn against God, being a top angel without God knowing about it?....Jesus said Satan was a murderer "from the beginning"...Food for thought....
God setting Adam and Eve up???? That's like saying as parents do we set our children up when we have a stove, silverware and sharp objects or even a gun in the home and tell them not to touch it. so does that mean we set them up? We will never be able to understand everything of God because his ways are far above our ways.
Just stay with the Bible and follow Jesus Christ, we are not going to figure this out. The bigger question is how you going again by the Holy Spirit? Because trying to figure out what happened in Genesis and a person is not even Born Again by the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ then it doesn't profit anything
I would recommend “The Story of Redemption’” by Ellen White, it answered these kind of questions and sets you on the path for seeing the world through God’s eyes.
It was a test
I rebuke the spirit of antichrist at work here
I think Adam eve is about trusting god
It was there test
God didn’t create them to fail, God is outside of time so we can’t understand it but he already knows the end and beginning, if I record the nba finals and my dad watches it while I’m at work and tells me lakers win, I know the outcome already but those players still had free will. When I watch I will enjoy etc. but God is just like that but even greater , he is outside of time and he already knows but allows it to happen because free will
According to our apostle paul’s ministry in The King James Bible,we are only saved by believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ,1st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross,shed His Blood for all of our sins,was buried and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ Shed Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.
Pre-determinism is why I can’t rock with Calvinism, it doesn’t make logical sense and there’s no biblical precedence for it. Just like Da truth said, “ not having the ability to choose would make us something other than human”
The real story is that of they lied about history buried FACTS and told lie what you think they did to your bibles who is really jesus christ and why God has so many names why you don't know your Creator personal but given religion instead?
Opportunity to choose is IS love. That's why socialism is so evil. The story also explains the nature of men and women. So so deep.
People of God I can only speak on my experience what I went through.
Everything in life is predestined what this means is that God foreknew before hand when nothing existed God had a planned then He predestined stages of life to every roads that would lead you back to him.. Everything has its limitations and your life course will end. (Read Ecclesiastes 3).
And not just Adam and Eve set up to failed. I believe Judas who betrayed Jesus was also set up to play a role in Jesus's death.
My point and what I'm saying is that these church people who have all these gifts and titles, a little power in God is a dangerous thing if we dont invest in his will and his glory. we're doomed,
Life is like the board game chess God is King he's sitting on his throne
Moving the pieces where his will and purpose will be done on Earth as this is in heaven, politically, media, social, that's why things are not what they appear to be.
We only have a small part to play.
The Bible says every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is the son of God.
All we can do and say, yes or no Let the Church Say Amen.
Adam gave his power to eve. It was her fault(he said). Do they remember human creations before eve eat the fruit.
Anytime you read literaure with talking animals you are dealing with mythology
satan and Lucifer are not the same entity
Lost me with "Satan was previously Lucifer" lol
If the omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Most High Alohim or, "God", is really the one that created Adam & Eve & told them not to eat from the tree, than, YES, He did set them up.
Alohim would still be just considering that:
1. The Most High YAH Alohim decides what is good and what is evil.
2. The Most High is sovereign.
3. We are insignificant little specs in the entirety of existence, let alone, in this universe.
4a. We really DO NOT have "knowledge of good and evil". The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" probably just REDUCED the OBJECTIVE moral knowledge that mankind probably did have to SUBJECTIVE socially constructed morality and NOT anything objectively real.
4b. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" not only caused what was just previously mentioned, but it probably caused mankind (and perhaps other creatures) to be thrown into the illusory "reality" of the FUNCTIONS of good and evil (moral and natural) experience.
Consider also that "and He saw it was good" (paraphrase) is referring to function, not morality.