Speeding and the "10% plus 2 Rule". What you Need to know! | BlackBeltBarrister
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Is there really a legal allowance of 10% plus 2 for Speeding?
Many people think there is a rule that allows you to drive 10% plus 2 over the speed limit, but this is a dangerous assumption with serious consequences. There are "Guidelines" that suggest Police may exercise discretion but this is NOT built into legislation.
If you have received an NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) see my video here:
• CAUGHT SPEEDING BY POL...
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"Set cruise control and leave it there".
Come visit North Wales... Two speed limit changes every ½ mile or your money back.
It always astonishes me when I see reports a professional footballer on, say, £10k a week pleading 'exceptional hardship' when they could easily afford a chauffeur for 6 months or even taxis.
Cocaine and Hookers are not cheap and its a tough life playing football on a few saturdays per year !
@@Olan... all that taking the knee takes it out of their knees too, wouldn’t be surprised if they’re all in mobility scooters soon and claiming compensation 🤔
@@andyxox4168 I thought Bentleys served that purpose because every time i see one the person driving it looks either obese or suffering from some type of Disability Whot whot !
If they studied law and legislation they could get themselves off 👍
10k a week! Must play for a pretty crap club!😎
I was caught speeding by a radar speed gun about 20 years ago. The copper gave me a break and with it, a warning (no speeding fine for me). Ever since that day, I (with the aid of my cruise control) do 30 in a 30, 40 in a 40 (I'm sure you get the picture), whenever it is safe to do so.
As part of my job, I had to go out with the motorway cops every 6 months or so to keep my accreditation valid, and I wasn't a policeman. They were excellent and said to me stuff like, if youre doing less than about 85 and not driving like an idiot, we'd probably leave you alone, and that they wouldn't usually run patrols at rush hour as it would just lead to a huge wedge of traffic travelling behind them. I found their attitude and point of view very pragmatic and sensible, that was 20 years ago mind......
That was 20 years ago
Nothings changed.
@@SuperBobbster Except for speed cameras now appearing?
Average speed cameras don't care if you are driving like miss daisy's driver, you'll get a ticket.
@@peterlewis8040
Average speed cameras have been pretty good at eliminating the pattern of speeders hitting the breaks just before the camera, since it no longer works.
I don't think people realise what a great service this guy provides. I see the term national treasure misapplied to air headed, celebrities. This guy is a highly qualified Barrister who takes the time to help & educate people, is totally approachable, diligent, courteous, Professional, and is a TRUE NATIONAL TREASURE.
Back in the early 2000s a police traffic information van parked on Tescos car park. I got talking to the sergeant who was in charge of the speed camera control room. He told me that they allowed 10% +1 and you got a FPN at 10% + 2. He then pointed out that this was policy not law and you could still get a FPN for any speed over the limit depending on road conditions and manner of driving.
Here's a tip that has worked for me a couple of times. If you are stopped for speeding at just over the limit, be polite and remorseful to the policeman! They are much more likely to be lenient, and just give you a warning😀
I think this may be down to the fact that all speedometers calibrated in cars for sale in Europe show a positive variance of approx 10% between calibrated speed and your actual speed. A sat nav that shows your speed based on GPS is actually more accurate.
I thought it was the tolerances of the radar gun. The early generations being rather inaccurate, and couldn't prove your speed unless it was outside the gun's margin of error.
There was a time when a speedo was required to read to a maximum error of 10% once 30mph was exceeded. More recently it could read anything over speed but never under, hence the standard speedo on a ploice BMW bike would read 47 at 40mph and be within construction and use regulations.
There was a time, pre paranoia and speed cameras, that a traffic cop would not even stop someone for 10 mph over the limit, reinforced by comments from chief constables on national radio. Even the first speed cameras were set to flash at 15 over the limit. Now the tolerance is often minimal.
GPS isn't as accurate as you think. It takes a speed measurement over distance and can't cope with variations of speed over short distances without throwing the averages out. Also it won't take changes in altitude in to account so going up or down a hill can result in incorrect gps readings. Reflections from buildings can adjust the readings. And on top of that, it is only ever meant to provide 95% accuracy anyway. It's good enough over a long period, but for any short period in time, you can't rely on it to be 100% accurate!
You’re right. I’ve measured this on various cars, against GPS while on cruise control on a straight road. I found it to be between 3% and 8%. The highest was a Prius at 8%, so when their speedo saying 70mph it was in fact doing 64-65mph. Or, if they were flashed and recorded at, say, 80mph their speedo would have been reading 86mph!
Where I live, villages and towns show a readout of your speed. It matches exactly with my satnav.
I got pinged by a fixed camera doing 34 in a 30. I was offered the driver awareness course. It was surprising how many people on the course didnt know basic rules for speed limits, road signs etc.
Same here 7-8 hours of being talked at tea/coffee and sarnies supplied.
How many people do any further driver training once they get their licence? Even just a 'pass plus', let alone formal training in the years to come?
@@johnmccallum8512 I’m about to book for a course was it really 7-8 hours good god I might take the fucking points tbh 😮
@@dronegeeks A slight exageration there It started about 10;30 AM and finished at about 5:30 pm so still a long day but not that long mine was in Bradford City's ground and I live in Huddersfield.
I was stopped at the lights sped up 31-32 by mistake got flashed from the front and worried on my driving lesson. Which is pretty shit I’m not a bad boy to be fair I am aware it’s just my foot goes a bit nuts then I slow down and keep it below 30mph fingers crossed it goes ok
The assignment of speed limits is becoming increasingly arbitrary. The are 20/30/40 limits being applied to open roads where there is no reason to. There has been no change to the road, nor to the roadsides (no new turnings or buildings, or any history of serious accident) and yet the limit is arbitrarily dropped. As a result, people do not stick to them. If they want speed limits to be observed they should apply a sensible speed limit to the road. The majority of people would observe it then...
Absolutely!!
I have no problem with appropriate speed limits but everything against inappropriate ones. 20 years ago I was in the bar of my club when a guy I know who is a magistrate asked a councillor why they had lowered the speed limit on the road near his house, he replied there had been a death. He answered that the driver had had a heart attack, the councillor said “are yes but we need the money”. A senior policeman there said that’s what you get when the fines go into the county council coffers. He said when his CPO put forward at a conference upping the motorway speed limit as the most common cause of death on motorways is not speeding but drivers falling asleep , second, bad driving, he was politely told to go away.
Most accidents are caused by people not MSM and just pull out when there may be a vehicle in their blind spot.
The 20 mph is a bad idea as it causes drivers to do 20 mph in a 30 or 40 or even 50 zone, it has created more of a problem than it has resolved. I also noticed that in the time we have had 20 mph zones, my fuel usage has doubled, so double the pollution on my car is pretty much double the pollution on all other vehicles and note that there has been no improvement in air quality here despite the traffic reduction, if anything, slower drives up the pollution rate.
@@stuartskinner2387 Roads, except for those under the highway agencies direct control are the only roads that the government will touch.
All other roads fall under your local authority / government to deal with. Where I live there are two governing bodies beyond the government, the Local council and the local county council.
You local authority is responsible for road upkeep and repairs, DO NOT BE FOOLED by the ROAD FUND LICENCE FEES... They are not for use of the road, it is a POLLUTION TAX, nothing to do with your local roads, in fact, the roads were well maintained because of MONEY FROM THE EU that was earmarked for infrastructure upkeep and improvements, since the muppets took us out the EU, no roads have been replaced, only patched up and the condition of the roads is also known as TORY ROADS because having lived under 4 Tory governments know that their typical traits of doing business with the public.
You wonder why council tax goes up... well its because of the roads and other things that need to be replaced or fixed because of vandals. If vandals realised that everything that they see is bought and paid for by the local people and not the government, they may have a bit more respect for the things around them, including the roads and how they use or abuse them.
The reality of the business behind the shop front is dumbfounding to most people, all I can say is try working for your local authority in any department that deals with the public at the point of service to see just how ignorant people really are as to who pays for what and who owns what in this country.
It is not until you understand how council tax works that you realise that central government pretty much dictates how much money the local authority can spend and what cuts to be made, the saving to be passed to central government... to line their pockets, I mean treasury coffers to help pad the MP's expenses out, I mean budget for the countries nuclear war head needs, I mean needs of the people...
The reality you are presented by central government is a case of the "Wool being pulled..."
You get the picture.
No, none of them were in my lodge. The common denominator was the desire to knock 7 bells out of a little white ball. Something I found so annoying because of my lack of talent and time that I gave it up a long time ago.
My sentiments exactly. I live in London and many councils here have introduced a blanket 20mph speed limit on all residential roads, regardless of whether they are appropriate for the road conditions. My local council is currently flirting with the idea and I couldn’t be more against this. How can you change speed limits without even considering the conditions on the road in question?
Driving though nearby councils, the number of people who just ignore these new blanket 20mph speed limits is just astounding. Traffic pretty much flows as it always has with a few outliers from time to time who actually heed these speed limits and create a que of cars behind them. I’m convinced this is being pushed by a small minority of activists and actually isn’t what the majority of residents want.
Worse still, since you now have to use your own discretion when driving though these councils, it’s harder to spot roads which genuinely need the 20 mph speed limit.
@@bobi6191 A child gets knocked down, the speeds get reduced.
The education of the parent to keep their children under control is lost on many parents.
I was in my doctors surgery, its a nice modern building and good view of the road.
A squeal and screech of brakes, a thud, then a parent rushes in with the said child who had just been hit by a car because the parents were too busy arguing and the the several kids running around their feet ends in a kid being hit because it ran in to the road.
The driver was blamed for the parents ineffective parenting.
Many accidents on the roads result in speed reduction schemes which do nothing for the problem as that and other children are not taught by the parents about the simple things like road safety.
The problem isn't the cars or by majority, most drivers, the problem is with the parents who fail as a parent to teach their kids the simple things like safety. One of the first lessons we taught our son, road safety as well as other safety needs were addressed from an early age.
These are for cars. I drive a van 🚐 for work every day. Miles and miles I rarely drive at speed unless necessary. (Not over the limits just on them) I got 3 points for driving at 70mph on a dual carriageway. The limits for commercial vehicles is less than for cars. How many people know that? 40 years I’ve been driving. 3 years ago I found out about the commercial vehicle speed limits. Wankers.
I get overtaken by wagons and HGV artics now. I’m doing 62-65 and they’re belting past me. Am I bitter? Yes.. am I aware now? Yes. Is that law an ass? YES
Ignorance of the law and the Highway Code is not an excuse.
@@Perthshire 🤨
@@Perthshire I’m not making excuses. I said I got 3 points. Held my hands up. Learned my lesson.
It is even more complex than that. Even small vans are restricted to those limits unless they are registered as a 'Car Derived Van'.
An excellent video. Too many drivers still think that the 10+2 rule is a given.
For several years now, I have set my cruise control pre-sets at 32, 52, 62 and72 mph as I know that my speedometer is set at +2mph by the manufacturer. This can be checked through digital speed signage and when I'm driving at a particular speed the sign will invariably show 2mph lower than my speedo. In my younger years I drove fast, rather stupidly, now I’ve mellowed and although I'll speed up a little or pull over to let others overtake on country roads, I drive much more slowly so that I can appreciate the scenery and still be aware.
A famous lawyer on TV last year said its 10% +1 now...
For me 20, 30 & urban 40 limits are sacrosanct. The NSL is, flexible.
I think the easiest thing is to ask people what’s the lowest speed you have received a fine. For me Iv been fined for doing 35 in a 30.
I was sent on a driver awareness corse for doing 34 in a 30. The guy running the corse said I shouldn’t be there
I was fined for doing 32 in a 30.
I attended a speed awareness course some years ago, the one comment that stuck in my mind more that any was that if a car was traveling at 35 rather than 30 it would still be going 17mph at the point that the same car would be stopped if it had been traveling at 30 as a starting speed.
@@ponyponydevereux7291 Were you offered a course?
@@ponyponydevereux7291 speed camera? Or police officer?
I saw a video from a US court where some one sped and was caught on camera speeding. In front of the judge she said she was in the process of having heart failure and a speeding ticket was cheaper than an ambulance. Didn't even try to argue her innocence. The judge let her off the hook though, which was nice of him.
So….IF she did succumb to the alleged heart failure…..and was speeding along, there is a chance, maybe a high chance, that upon losing control she could have injured or killed other people. What a selfish woman….I would have tripled the maximum fine.
@@contessa.adella that is something I had thought about. But I guess it's an "alls we'll ends well," situation
The good ol'US of A where you can shoot speeding camera's. God bless America.
Instead of cruise use the speed limiter function if you have it. Cruise tends to push you at the limit and relies on you to disengage it. If you use the limiter you just drive normally and can't go over the limit. That means you're much less likely to hold speed on bends/etc since you're still using your judgement rather than an arbitary speed limit.
Yes trains of speeding drivers control the motorways because they prevent anyone else from overtaking. Also they weave from lane to lane and undertake vehicles with dangerous manoeuvres. They also overtake by slip roads preventing safe drivers from pulling out to let traffic onto the motorway risking accidents. I see it all because I frequently drive long distances on motorways.
@@squicker If you overtake by a slip road you are blocking traffic from moving out safely away from the slip road traffic. Do not overtake by a slip road, it is stupid, dangerous and puts you and others at risk of an accident.
That is common sense. Also never undertake because that is dangerous too. Also strings of speeding vehicles will block traffic (abiding by the speed limit) from legitimately overtaking. Speeding is dangerous and is a damn nuisance to other traffic.
@@squicker Nothing that you said there in your long diatribe counts. Safety counts. It is not about when I am joining a motorway, which I was not commenting about anyway. It is about trapping other drivers in the lane next to traffic that is pulling out. Stop inventing the MyWay code and drive safely.
Think ahead and do not prevent traffic from pulling out at a slip road with joining traffic. You will have a serious accident if you do not think ahead. It is all as well saying when you are paralysed in hospital that it was the fault of traffic 2 lanes inside you that caused your crash. Drivers are not perfect so you must account for what drivers are doing or likely to do 2 lanes inside you not just the ones next to you and give the drivers next to you space to pull out at a joining slip road. Also look 10 vehicles ahead on the road and in all lanes not just your lane.
You have to drive assuming others several lanes away will do silly things to cause you to have a serious accident. It is no use apportioning blame after you are dead. Try taking an advanced driving course it may save your life.
@@squicker Look, the roads are not a race track and most cars on the road have very low acceleration and high economy. You have to allow for the fact that traffic on normal roads does not follow the racing rules. The traffic on our normal roads is RANDOM so cannot be accurately predicted. So with all the boy racers on the roads those normal low acceleration cars trying to join the motorway with random traffic need room to pull out. If you block them from doing that you could end up being the most right person in the graveyard.
Your actions with your high acceleration polluting road race car can end up with you ending up dead. Most of the drivers on the roads are not racers. The problem is that your actions are extending across several lanes on the inside of you. So the cars there do not have your racing car acceleration.
Making allowances for slower cars several lanes inside yours will help keep you alive. Most drivers on our roads are not highly skilled and in fact most have never driven on that stretch of road before so are acting cautiously. You have to allow for the random traffic situations forming a few lanes inside of you or you can end up being and accident victim. You may be right you may be wrong but there are no race winners in the graveyard.
@@squicker The problem is you do not understand the point. You have to allow for the slowest vehicle, random traffic, and many unskilled poor drivers several lanes inside you with dangerous traffic situations emerging quickly. The speeding boy racers trap drivers who legitimately need to change lanes. This is why you should never overtake by or near a lead in slip road otherwise you are blocking safe drivers from moving out a lane or two to avoid incoming traffic. Simple as that. There is no race committee in the graveyard.
@@squicker Simple. I drive up and down the country doing hundreds of miles frequently and it is no different anywhere on any of the motorways. I even drive across France and Spain in normal times so I see a lot of traffic. I am very observant and get it right. Try to look at what is happening, then when people tell you exactly what is happening you will understand rather than make excuses by thinking they are angry. You obviously have no understanding of the roads at all because you are showing you cannot think logically. You are not alone because most humans are incapable of logical thought. It has to be learned. Luckily my job left no room for illogical thought and I was taught boolean logic as part of my training, that is the key. That is why some people get it and others flounder.
60 percent of drivers are poor drivers making lots of mistakes and the rest also make mistakes too because they are human. It is no good hoping people will drive perfectly by the rules when many of them don’t even know the rules and are bad drivers. And it is no good quoting rules to people after you are in hospital or in the graveyard mate.
The speeding drivers are trapping the vehicles in the inside lanes. When strings of speeding vehicles constantly pass, it is impossible to overtake or move out a lane this causes traffic to slow and get congested near incoming slip roads, and slow vehicles pull out into the fast lane blocking that too. It just needs a little bit of logic to work that out. Other causes of congestion, jams and Phantom jams are in fact too many vehicles on the road, Every lorry there is trying to overtake every other lorry at 0.01 miles an hour and speeders causing accidents. When lorries overtake in the all the traffic slows down then more lorries overtake and then all the cars move to the fast lane doing under 40 mph then eventually the traffic almost stops. Happens all the time on every trip I take. There is rarely any physical cause for these frequent phantom jams just Lorries overtaking triggering it. But when the traffic stops completely it is usually because some stupid speeder has rammed another vehicle.
That is what is happening.
The facts straight.
I got a motorcycle license recently and as a new motorcycle rider I have virtually no demerit points or room for any error or I lose my license. I have never stressed so much about speed limits in my life, absolutely no one drives the speed limit at least where I am, they all go about 20% above (60km/h in a 50 zone) so I'm constantly torn between going the limit and pissing absolutely everyone off, or go 60 like everyone else and worry I'll lose my license. I tend to go 55-58, I think it's a good balance between not pissing others off and not risking a ticket.
The 'allowance' was a legacy of how accurate speedometers could be. Initially, construction & use regs allowed the speedo to read +/- 10%, so it was possible to be travelling at 10% over any limit with the speedo reading on the limit. Later, maybe 20 or so years ago, this was changed, as manufacturing got better, so the regs now demand +10%/-0%. This means that your speedo can read up to 10% above the actual speed, but must not read below. With any modern car, if you are travelling above the speed limit, your speedo will definitely be reading above. This could be an argument to remove the '10% +2' rule, so we may be lucky to have an allowance at all.
As your tyres wear, the wheels rotate faster, giving a higher speed reading. Generally, all the wheel/tyre combinations on a vehicle will be within 10% of each other in rolling diameter, allowing the manufacturer to calibrate the speedo for the slowest rotating wheel with new tyres, knowing that all the others will be within tolerance. Often, the cheapest car in a range will have the most accurate speedo.
@Garrus Vakarian But drivers are paying less attention, reaction times are increasing, and physics still dictates how long it will take to stop. With modern cars being quiet and comfortable, some of the sensation of speed is lost, leading to a false sense of security. Higher limits will bring more collisions, with significantly worse injuries.
Motor bikes are the worst for dangerous over takes, que jumping, speeding and excessive noise.
Have you asked your doctor for some testerone shots? You might then get the urge to ride one and live a little.
Queue jumping? you mean the completely legal practice of filtering?
@@Diwrnach69 no I don't! I mean the dangerous and completely illegal act of que jumping and cutting up traffic with dangerous driving and turns. Filtering as you invented it doesn't exist in law.
@@thewizzard3150 you might want to read the highway code, filtering is clearly described and completely legal.
@@thewizzard3150 "Rule 88
Manoeuvring. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides before manoeuvring. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted. When in traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions or changing lanes. Position yourself so that drivers in front can see you in their mirrors. Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low."
What annoys me more is drivers doing half the speed limit, i.e. 30 mph and under on a 60 mph road, these are more likely to cause accidents.
Leslie - I understand your frustration at people driving slowly, but....
they may be on unfamiliar roads, lost, checking road signs or landmarks to get their bearings, looking for an address or turning, having a sudden sneezing fit........etc etc - from behind we can't possibly know why they are going slowly.
They are not likely to cause accidents, but hasty overtakes from impatient drivers are likely to cause accidents.
If they drive too slow it could be careless driving or obstruction.
Problem is far too many people think a national speed limit sign on a single carriageway road is 40 when it's 60
@@pauldavison7105 ......it is on an A-road, but a lot of nsl lanes are 50mph.
And on A-roads & dual carriageway vans, minibuses, PSVs & HGVs have their own limits
@@fifthoarsmanoftheacropolis4173 no shit sherlock.
I was purely talking cars under a national speed limit sign. 60
@@pauldavison7105 I was making the point clear - as lots of people don't realise different roads & vehicle types have different limits under the NSL sign.
No need for sarcasm buddy
Two points. Your insurance renewal premium will probably be adversely effected if you have more than 3 points on your licence. Secondly, the political point is these local politicians placing 20 mph limits everywhere. All of London except the motorway bits will be a 20mph zone. Mr Khan appears to be carrying out a war on car owners. I am all for 20 mph where appropriate, most schools have light controlled crossings, but at accident black spots okay. I dealt with some horrible injury claims, as a claims handler, I likewise am fully aware of the consequences of bad driving, which includes excessive speeding.
I work for a civil engineering company that maintains the road networks. We have massive issues with people speeding in areas where works are taking place. We had one of our staff killed just a few months ago due to this. I really appreciate the emphasis on sticking to the limits here. They're there for a reason.
Yep, when driving on the motorway and I see those cones out, I take far more care. Not gonna be fun knowing there's a car doing 70+ near you and could potentially end up hitting you. No need to be a prat to someone just doing their job (and let's be honest, it's not the best job in the world), so give them a break, otherwise it's a full on closure just to repair a pothole in the future.....
I am a road safety volunteer, thanks for this. It helps me feel I am not wasting my time, but it is very hard to get volunteers, although people will moan about the speed
Road work should be done at night only
I have no disagreement with reducing the speed limits where road works are taking place. Many people however get fed up with reaching the restriction with one lane coned off then driving for several miles with no sign of work being done.
@@cityboy11000 but sometimes it can over run
Excellent. I attended a speed awareness course, thinking it would be.....boring. I was pleasantly surprised, to learn, at the few miles per hour over the limit, and the accident associated with it. One accident involved a child being killed. Wide open road, no parked cars or trees obscuring view of the driver, it just happened so quick. The driver was a trained police driver, 35 in a 30 MPH.
Today I was driving along at 30mph on a three lane carriageway where the nearside lane was marked as ending in 200 yards, with a posted speed limit of 30 mph and was over and undertaken by cars and vans doing probably double! I caught them up at the red traffic light. A few weeks ago the police set up a speed trap and caught a huge number of speeders.
I'm seeing more and more 20mph zones on wide roads that could genuinely be 40mph and I don't understand it
It would be more helpful to change the speed limit past schools. 8am to 4pm should be 20 mph after it should go to a 30 mph because driving 20 while no one is there is annoying and it can slow down traffic behind. I often get people driving close to my bumper when I am in a 20mph zone and no pedestrians are around. As a new driver it is worrying because of the road rage you feel pressured and panic making things worse.
I love cruise control!! Stick it to the speed limit and no need to worry 👍🏻
Yes, it's so easy, no excuses.
For some people, the less effort you have to put in, the less concentration you're likely to put in, and things like cruise control contribute to people driving distracted. Everything has a negative side as well as a positive one.
@@Dave-bu6bc I’ve heard that. I find that because I have old school none adaptive cruise control you need a pretty clear/light traffic otherwise you’re always having to adjust it, which sort of defeats the object I guess.
Think if someone is an observant driver who has good road awareness, CC won’t turn them into a bad driver. Ideally everyone should use CC so we can all just sit on 70 and have an easier time of it 😁
Unfortunately, when going downhill the cruise control doesn't apply the brakes so it can't prevent the car exceeding a speed limit in place on that section of road
Lets hope the speedo is accurate because the cc gets its signals from the same sensors.
When I was in the police in Scotland it was 10% above the speed limit because "normal" car speedometers are not accurate enough.
After totting up and the lost my license the judge told me I now had time to fine another job that I would not need a car for !!!
Loving the judge. Maybe it will change your life around. 10 doors close and 50 doors open.
I would love a job I don't need a car for.
Sadly it's a very difficult task where I live.
@@AkiraHDR50 That is fine. Drive within the speed limits and laws and you will be just fine.
good.
The Judge Got That Wrong, You Should Have Told Him, NO Judge The Fine Will Now Come Out Of Benefits That I Will Now Get, and I Will Also Not Pay Any Tax, You Punish Your Self Not Me. 😀😀😀😀👍
as a warning for 20mph zones, certainly older vehicles tend only to over-read your speed around 30mph (eg you're doing 28ish when speedo states 30). This is not always the case for 20. I noticed that, at 20mph, my true/gps speed is more like 22, right on the threshold
I got a ticket in Scotland from a speed camera but it was entrapment. It was pitch black at night time, there was no lighting, I believe it was on the A( and it was a section that had just changed from a dual carriageway to a single one and I hadn't realised but the camera was right there so I was still doing the dual carriageway speed limit. There were no signs or anything to say what the speed limit was or that it was changing to a single carriageway. The flash from the camera also nearly blinded me. I haven't been back to Scotland since ad kept my tourist pounds in England, Wales, and elsewhere.
That's not what entrapment is.
Many years ago, in the late '80s, a family friend was taken to court for 31 in a 30. His defence was that his speedometer showed 30, so he shouldn't be fined for 31. The judge told him that the accuracy of his speedometer is not the courts problem, so he got points and fined.
Why was he in court for 1mph over the limit? Pro tip, if you get pulled over, don't start swearing at the officer from the get-go.
Far more likely his speedo was showing 32/33. The answer is though, 30's the limit, and 31 is illegal. Any discretion used is exactly that. Use the speed limiter (rather than the cruise control as advocated by the advocate!)
@Garrus Vakarian Whether you or I think they should or not is irrelevant. They are, so best to drive within the limit.
@Garrus Vakarian Let me know when it's in any Party's election manifesto.
@Garrus Vakarian Hammond suggested increasing the motorway speed limits to 80 mph. To do so would require the central reservation of every piece of motorway in the country to be replaced. It was a totally unworkable suggestion.
As for nobody noticing it, with the advent of managed motorways, compliance with the speed limits is at a n all time high.
I drive on the M1 at the speed limit frequently. It is very rare anyone overtakes, and almost nobody does so at excessive speed.
the best thing i found is taking a hgv test this will show you how bad you are at speeding you cannot pull out without a big gap you cannot overtake on a single carriage way you have to see what's happening in the road over 100m away to see if you need to slow down no tight turns round corners and watching for pedestrians every were and very slow acceleration and it takes a long time to stop
The "10% +2" is surely a buffer that you need, you cannot safely assume your speedometer is necessarily overestimating your speed, it may be underestimating your speed. The variance is due to things like friction, tyre pressure, water on the roads, temperature of gauges and also software rounding errors, especially if there's multiple unit conversion with rounding on each unit. And you cannot assume the sensors are necessarily going to underestimate.
If you're going 35 in a 30-zone, then it really doesn't take much to be actually be clocked at going 35.
There's a further liability, if you get into an accident your car's computer is very likely to save the speed it registered it was going at at the time of collision, if they see you hit a pedestrian and your own car testifies against you that you were going 35 this will be presented to the jury and what can you really do to contradict it? Say "oh now I set the speed to 35 because I never thought I'd get caught" but... here you are in court: caught.
Where I live in West Yorkshire we have a massive problem with young lads in high performance cars speeding all over the place. Not a week goes by without a serious accident. Speed kills, but educating them is a thankless task. Probably the attitude of it'll never happen to me, until it does.
That's because the police say it's the council's problem.... the council say it is the police's problem. Everybody kicks the can along the road and placate the problem. So what you end up getting is people who drive dangerously but know where the speed cameras are and slow down... and all those speed cameras do is get the people who just strayed a little over accidentally and didn't realise.
How do these young lads afford it?
The first 200+ BHP car I owned was around the age of 28.
@@tomthumb4383 take a wild guess Tom. Clue, it ain’t a legal job
Well, those high performance cars are not for nothing high performance cars. If this kind of cars exist, they must be used at their potential, otherwise what's the point of manufacturing them?
Nonsense crap not every young lad who has andecent car or nice things is a drug dealer.... its such a ridiculous notion .... if every young lad who drove a nice car sold drugs the streets would look like the walking dead .... alot of finance cars mobility cars some.might have parents who helps them with good sums of money some are great at saving .... the biggest dealers i no and have known a handfull of herion/crack dealers freinds from growing up drive around in every day "blenders" that are probably beat up old vectra to.litersrly blend in because it makes.more sense not to be driving around kn a 40 k car with a flove box full of gear makes.more sense to just drive about in something you wouldnt blink at ... not saying every one who sells gear does this but .. from my.experience majority of kids ingrew up with/ picked up the old nose candy from was allways in bang average motors to run around in ...... so their ya go
The speed limit is the MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE, it's not the recommended nor the appropriate speed. We should drive at a speed that's appropriate according to the prevailing conditions
^^^ This 100%
I've always kept to the speed limits much to the amusement of my friends and family. I'm the only one without penalty points or cautions and proud of it!
You must have a fun life.
Thank you.
@@PointNemo9 Yes, she must have a fun life doing what she wants, rather than crashing into someone and spending years in jail, losing the house with no job, missing holidays with friend and family. My neighbour lost his home, his wife and even his dog because he got done for bad driving, and all splashed across the local paper. Hilarious for us.
I bet your boring in bed too. 🤐
@@stringer-ik1pc you sound like an early death is fun. Personally rather live to a 100
As a serving motorway police officer once told me...speeding itself doesn't kill, it's inappropriate speed that kills, and even then it's the sudden, abrupt and often violent stop that tends to see you depart this life for the next. Keep safe folks :-)
if it were that simple that "speed kills", there would be no living astronauts
Excellent as always. Just for reference, ACPO was wound up a few years ago and was replaced by the NPCC.
Yes I realised as soon as I published ! 😅
@@BlackBeltBarrister to be honest I’m sure everyone knows what you mean :-)
@@seaninherts I certainly hope so! 🤣
Can you clarify what "exceptional hardship" means with regards avoiding the ban? If a ban that leads to losing your job, which leads to you (and possibly your children) losing your home isn't exceptional hardship, I don't know what is!
its also a predictable hardship caused by not sticking to the rules of the road (such as 4 minor speeding offences), so if you didn't worry about the serious consequences for yourself and your family why should the court?
I got shafted by a pig 26 years ago. He couldn’t find even a spec of dust wrong with my car so gave me a 33 in a 30 ticket. I appealed it and got 6 points and double the fine by a judge. I honestly thought I didn’t need a lawyer as there was no evidence because I wasn’t speeding. Big mistake.
I learnt a valuable lesson that day that the filth can’t be trusted and that I need to make sure it never happens again.
A bought an R1 and had a load of foreign plates made up. I’ve never stopped for a blue light since.
🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽
It's interesting that when you get a speeding fine from the police they always say we have evidence of you doing such and such but NEVER actually show it. Most people pay as they don't want to go to court with the potential of getting a higher fine even tho no evidence is ever shown.
They should be called what they really are which is mobile revenue vans.
"Don't do the crime if you don't wanna pay the fine".
or think of it as a donation to someone else's tax bill.
I have no evidence, but put forward an alternative hypothesis:
Most people pay because they know they were speeding...
something to bear in mind, only commercial vehicles' calibrated speedometers are actually accurate. private vehicles speedometers are deliberately inaccurate, erring on the side of caution. IE when your speedometer reads 70mph, you're only actually doing 66mph. so if you get caught for speeding you can't ever blame the manufacturer for inaccurate speedo the other way, ie showing slower than you really are
Cite for that?
@@alastairward2774 www.thecarexpert.co.uk/how-accurate-is-a-car-speedometer/
Cornwall is switching to 20mph across much of the county just like Wales. That is an awful speed to observe across such a large area. I find myself either in 2nd gear with high revs or in 3rd gear and at very low revs that actually mess up the engine, plus I am having to watch the speedometer constantly, rather than watching the road and cruise control doesn't work at 20mph. I've seen that large tracts of road are also being monitored with average speed cameras now, so avoiding fines will likely mean keeping at around 15mph along those routes.
I honestly do honour this. Its a human reaction that if you are poodling at 30 in a 30 you will Pizz off a lot of people. Namely the BMW driver whose 8 cylinders dont like 30mph
So i do believe its a peer pressure to keep with the flow of traffic. In a million drivers for you to not keep your eyes peeled like a motorbike rider does you may just be caught
Dont get caught
Dont endanger life. Leave earlier. Plan ahead and dont smash that 40k car up or drive it like its stolen
Fully agree with you regarding speed limits, that's great advice too! Your channel is brilliant and thank you.
If the standard speed limit on motorways in Europe is 130Km/h how are we supposed to believe that going over 70 is dangerous?
One can often perfectly safely exceed the speed limit on a straight stretch and then slow before either corners or junctions, especially considering many speed limits are not set on the grounds of safety but rather for traffic management.
The 70 mph limit was brought in in1965 after a large number of pileups on the M1
British roads are safer than roads in most of continental Europe, if you look at the accident statistics.
Speed limits are just like Coronavirus, they’re just following the science!
Certain parts of autobahn unrestricted some parts 80mph in Germany driving is different also 20mph on Inner roads
@@jerry2357 I checked the stastitics and the UK is pretty much in line with other western Europe countries, the outliers with significant lower deaths per 100,000 vehicles are Switzerland and Norway.
Hi mate, the only way to not get a speeding ticket is you can't speed. I live in Victoria, Australia, and I think we have some pretty tough speeding laws. They impound at 45Kph+, send you a photo fine for 3Kph over the limit. We have soooo many speed cameras, fixed and mobile, point to point timed cameras. I use a GPS HUD and cruise control. Not tickets in 7/8 years. It actually makes you a safer driver. I'm 54 and spent most of my driving life dodging radar and the cops on patrol, but if you drive within the law, they ignore you. I gave up drinking, one reason was drink driving. The only way to beat the breathaliser is you can't drink and drive. I was a piss head. I needed you in my younger life, but not now. Top work, I really enjoyed watching.
There is a 10% overread allowed in the EU type approval laws this will likely still apply to many vehicles even if more accurate technology is available on newer vehicles. It was my interpretation of the guidelines that this encompasses potential discrepancies between speedometers and vehicle dash boards and measurement devices used by law enforcement?
In some areas there seems to be a wholesale reduction of speed limits for no obvious reason. Where I grew up every road apart from a few major A-roads seems to have had a blanket speed limit reduction to 20mph applied in the last couple of years.
I understand reducing speed saves lives in a collision, but from the way a queue rapidly builds up behind me when observing these limits when I visit family, it doesn’t seem to have caused all drivers to actually reduce their speed. The road my parents lived when I was growing up, some drivers would regularly considerably exceed the 30mph speed limit; now that road has a 20mph speed limit. Anecdotally it just seems some people drive at a similar speed to before, just it’s now 10mph further over the reduced speed limit.
You omit the rational for the 10% allowance.
Speedos in cars under the Construction and Use Regulations state such equipment must be accurate within +/- 10%. So a car travelling at 30 mph Speedo can show a speed of 33mph (+10% accuracy) displaying and be legal. Conversely a cars travelling at 33 the Speedo can display a speed of 30mph (-10% accuracy). Therefore with the law allowing such a situation with the driver reasonably believing to within the law with a legal Speedo, it would be unreasonable for the law to prosecute. In a just world it is considered unreasonable to make the prosecutorial cut off at 30mph so ACPO inserted the +2 mph with the 10% as an additional precaution.
As a former Scottish police officer, our guidance on whether to prosecute or not was based on legislated speedometer accuracy ie. +10% at speeds over 10 mph, so 33 in a 30 zone etc. This is to allow for equipment inaccuracy, nothing excuses deliberate speeding or bad driving.
Totally agree!
It's a limit BBB, not a target. Rule 125 in the HC states "does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed". Curiously, the wording has changed, it used to say that "often it may not be safe to travel at the limit".
Also, what about average speed cameras? Many drivers will speed in between the two cameras, and mistakenly think that if they pass the second camera at the prescribed limit, they are OK. Not so. Average speed is a funny old thing, if you exceed the speed between cameras at 10mph for 90% of the distance, getting your average back to the limit is virtually impossible.
The average speed areas amuse me, i set my speed limiter to the speed no chance of speeding then. The amusing part is watching drivers slam on brakes at the camera and then accelerate away after camera, i often wonder what part of average speed these people fail to understand.
Hi I don't disagree people should comply with the limits. However the accuracy of a speedometer will allow you to travel over the speed limit as the car will give incorrect information on the dash. Please can you look at the regulations in regard to the speedometer accuracy standards. Thanks great site very helpful
So true. We get those who prosecute drivers for driving in a 30mph zone at 33mph. FACT. Let's not gloss over this, it is a FACT. So to believe that you can get away with a few more mph without the policeman pulling you over and giving you a ticket plus spot fine.. ?🤔HOWEVER sometimes THAT CAN reveal ie drug users, drunks etc or those certainly suspect of being over the limit? On their mobile phones.. Also I agree on your 'sticking to the speed limit'. IF it is acceptable to do MORE and get away with it? Where does it end? Would those who think it is OK for ie a couple of more MPH, accept that someone who drinks has an extra beer or ? is also acceptable. 🤔Stay safe, whoever wherever you are !
Thank you for driving safely.
I was once stopped on the M5 S, for doing 112 mph. It was quite a long & complicated stop as the Hayabusa I was riding wasn’t mine, eventually it was ascertained that speeding was my only offence and I was being reported for 103 mph. After 6 months passed with me hearing nothing at all.... am I correct in thinking that’s the end of it and I can’t now be prosecuted ? That isn’t quite the end of the story, the following 2 years I had Christmas cards from deon & Cornwall police Exeter traffic dvn. I’d love to know what process happened here but have never been brave enough to poke a stick into this hornets nest!
What about the Construction and Use regulations which allow speedometers to have errors up 10% plus 4mph as legal? This law is also included in EU law and United Nations law.
A police driving trainer said to us, "It's a speed limit, not a target!"... One doesn't have to drive at the speed limit...
One does not need to remain below the limit to be a safe driver either.
@@markwright3161I wasn't suggesting driving deliberately below the limit for the sake of it. One obviously varies one's speed according to road and traffic conditions within the limit set by law, but driving religiously at 60mph on a narrow winding country road just because that is the limit would be unwise!
You don't have to drive at the speed limit because as you said, it's not a target. Driving well below it for no good reason can still raise questions; questions of your confidence/competence as a driver. If you're ambling around in a 60mph limit at 40mph, you're very likely to get stopped by police.
@@johnmcquay82 Yes, of course. I knew someone who was stopped because he was driving at 20 in a 30 mph limit one evening. He said he was driving very carefully because he had had a number of Guinnesses - no prizes for guessing the police response to that! It is easy to drift a few miles an hour over a 30 limit - not everyone has cruise control available and one wonders how accurate speedometers are. I don't think many average family cars are fitted with the certified calibrated instruments found in police cars. Speedometers must, by law, not read less than the speed indicated, but can read up to 10% plus 6.25 mph higher, so could read 39.25 in a 30 or 50.25 in a 40 limit. If one drove at an indicated 30 or 40mph with an instrument set like this, one might be considered as dawdling! I don't suppose many cars have such inaccurate instruments; our own personal motor cars seem to over-read by about three mph at 30, according to a satnav (how accurate are they, though?). Interesting isn't it?!
Yes. Sound advice.
It isn’t often realised what ‘knock on’ effects there can be from the loss of a licence. I know a guy who lost his job and therefore his house. His wife left him and took the children.
He tended to drive like an idiot, so it was his own fault. The punishment, though, was severe.
20 mph around schools when did you ever see a speed camera or police car near a school or housing estate were children live and play, no they hide behind bends, bushes ,or signs etc, or were speed drops suddenly from say 60 to 40
To tell you all out there,vehicles with a calibrated speedos ie trucks,vans, police with "calibrated electronics who must carry a cert of calibration" another help is your satnav if it displays your speed you will notice the sat nav will be showing a slower speed than say your cars speedo, You can be very confident passing any speed cameras or even passing police cars, usually the police do not drive at the highway speed unless someone is commiting an offence.
Car speedometers in the UK have a a legal tolerance of +/- 10%.
Speedometer showing and actual speed
30mph can be between 27 & 33mph
40mph can be between 36 & 44mph
70mph can be between 63 & 77mph
This is why the tolerance is given. BUT. If the police want to, they can get the accuracy of the speedo checked. But only if you cause further issues with them.
not correct. it is -10% +- 2mph. ie shows 30mph then actual speed can be from 25 to 29mph. speedometers will always show faster speed than actual speed. try driving with a satnav showing your speed and compare it to your speedo. only way it could be wrong is if you fit larger wheels and tyres with a greater rolling circumference than the vehicle was designed for.
Hey. Great content. Can you do one on so called 'Sovereign Citizens' and associated misconceptions from the freemen crowd. Thanks
Best bit of advice I had regarding keeping to speed limits was from an IAM observer years ago. Change down through the gears to match the required speed and it's much easier to tell by the engine noise that you may be going faster than you should be. I've always found 4th for 40, 3rd for 30, 2nd for 20 works well for me.
I went on an advanced driving course in which the tutors were either serving or retired Class 1 Police drivers. They told us that brakes are for slow, gas is for go. Brake pads or linings are cheaper and easier to replace than clutches
@@kenhunt9434 I guess they also are trained differently - the one who advised me was such a police driver (still serving, doing this for 'fun'). That was over twenty years ago, maybe things were different then? But also, the advice I was given covers safety rather than economy.
This method works well and is known and helps with acceleration sense as well as offering a bit of a mental minder to the speed limits (Pilots use a similar to remember key figures in a flight)
Should motorway speed limits be increased to 80mph for cars?
I think it should. I live in Czech Republic and the speed limit is 130kph.
No we just need drivers to follow the current limit
Here in France, 130kph in dry weather & 110kph in the wet. Also lower limits can be displayed in poor conditions e.g. snow, fog & storms.
When I was younger I sped all the time. For some reason I just felt it was okay. When I see idiots speeding especially in residential and urban areas I feel really angry at them and genuinely remorseful of the disrespect I showed to other road users and communities.
I have to admit, I did too when I was driving for work. The roads were a lot quieter and drivers were less aggressive then though. Plus, in my opinion, the standard of driving was a lot higher. Today, there are too many vehicles and I don't have the level of concentration required to drive at those speeds. That and the fact that it's a dumb thing to do anyway. It's not big and not clever.
Highly recommended, once in their 20's to go to Germany and learn how to drive, especially on highways. Then, they would not be needed, those lower than everywhere speed limits. They are cash generator.
Some of the roads near me are so narrow that even the speed limit could lead to a collision. National speed limit,single lane, with lots of steep hills and tight turns, with tall banks. Would be crazy to do more then 30 lol xD
It's a limit, not a target. You are required not simply to obey the limits but to drive with due care and attention. The alternative would be to have to place speed limit signs at regular intervals along every track and pathway across the country. Hugely expensive, and unnecessary if everyone simply employs common sense.
Ive heard of the 10% myth but not the plus 2 part of it, on major roads and motorways I simply use my cruise control set at 2 mph over the limit, pleased to hear this is the current guideline.
I stick to the speed limit. Why? I've no need to speed. Because we've had the good old days when I could blast about at 150mph with little fear of been caught. The world has slowed down. It's too risky nowadays
I stick to the limits but my satnav shows a different speed. The higher the speed the greater the difference. By the time you get to 70 on the satnav it’s 78 on the car Speedo!! Which is more accurate? Which do I obey?
Also at roadworks where they are put on a 50mph, all the cars are sailing past and I’m causing a bit of a nuisance by being slower doing the official set limit on the speedo.
Equally, the bell ends doing slow speeds in lanes 2,3,4, etc. or even on single lanes,
IMO they are just as dangerous as speeders, perhaps worse.
I just got done doing 35 in a 30. Mother F. It was at the bottom of a hill, easy to slip up a little.
I’ve heard of the 10% +0 +1 + 2 + 3 depending on the speed. According to ACPO although they are not the law, they do imply should a defendant push and plead not guilty they would have a good case to demonstrate that tolerances by both parties equipment would leave it difficult for the prosecution to prove they actually broke the speed limit.. The 10% + rule is there to allow inaccuracies both at the point of detection and drivers tachometer..
I would imagine any decent barrister would defend the tie client on principle of demonstrating reasonable doubt.. If ACPO say equipment inaccuracies leave impossible to determine an exacting speed, then it is only reasonable to factor in said tolerances to then to remove any reasonable doubt to an offence being committed or not..
If the police have nothing better to do than pester people for driving at 34mph the country is finished. If they send me any nonsense like this it will go straight in the bin.
It’s a pity cameras don’t give you a bollocking, always preferred
An interesting and rough calculation you can do is add half again to the speed limit, that is roughly how many feet per second you are covering, so 30mph, add half 15mph, so at 30mph you are travelling at 45 feet per second, now if you add speeding, so 6 mph over the speed limit, you have added approx 10 foot per second to you speed, so not 55 feet per second, and so on. Not an exact science, but an eye opener.
Having spoken to someone who works with the 👮♂️ I can confirm that different Constabularies do have certain "tolerances" or "zero tolerance". Discretion sometimes does not come into it so you are quite correct here.
Ashley Neal, among others, will say that the speed limit is a limit - not a target.
Good upload. Respect 👍
Again it's the motorway clear road dry yet 40mph limit in place for 3 miles trying to maintain that speed on a motorcycle while trucks vans overtake you dangerously while you are trying to stay within that limit so speeding 50mph keeping up but not quite with traffic because it is safer on a smaller lighter vehicle. How about open truck loaded with lose debris and hitting you and your motorcycle ,so two lorry length behind speed up let's say up to 79mph to get past that vehicle and slow down to 65mph by a lorry length after over taken the vehicle. Made the maneuver due to the debris which is like small stone grit hitting the motorcyclist and motorcycle chipping the visor hurting the motorcyclist and damaging motorcycle so again overtaken the truck. Basically it was like riding on a loose gravel road due to the truck not having netting.
Well how about i was on a lesson wear i was on a 30mph zone coming up to a national speed limit A road and noticed a motorbike just in my blind spot and fair play he didnt break the limit and over took so i new once we got to the NS road he would overtake we get on im watching and waiting for him to over take im doing around 50 need to get in the secound lane for right turn at round about ahead and the motorist is just sitting in my blind spot stopping me from switching lanes bear in mind ive have him 10mph over taking room on purpose we get to the bottom streach inswitxh my indicator on he all.of a sudden just swerves out of my view blasting around from the left doing ridiculous speeds .....why
Amazing how an Irish sportspersons worth over €100 million only gets a €400 fine for doing 100 mph in a 60 mph zone, yet I got a €150 fine for 44 in a 40 zone in the same jurisdiction (doubled, because I contested it rather than accept the fixed penalty - I was just late slowing down because the speed limit sign was obscured by an illegally parked truck, and the judge didn't like me representing myself rather than employ a solicitor and barrister, costing more than the maximum fine, ffs!). At least in Finland, the fines are proportionate to your income.
i think some people need to go back to school and do some basic physics to understand why we have speed limits, rather than thinking they should be 'flexible' An average family car weighs in at 1.5t. At 30mph it would have a kinetic energy of about 135KJ. Energy is conserved i.e. in a collision with a pedestrian, a significant amount of this kinetic energy would be passed onto the pedestrian. At 35 mph (10% + 2) this rises to about 184KJ of energy. Compare that to 20mph where the kinetic energy is only 60KJ. It's the same reason why a small, but high velocity round from a rifle has such a devastating effect. As for saving time?; well on a 5km journey (just over 3 miles) driving at 35mph will save you less than one minute (approx 54 secs) than driving at 30mph. As a driver, we owe it to ourselves (living with the consequences) and to other road users, to understand why the limits exist and why we should drive within them, particularly in built up areas and in the presence of more vulnerable road users.
ACPO was dissolved in 2015. Replaced with the NPCC. I thought you would know that.
Acpo created the guidance and what they are called now isn't really important
@@pauldavison7105 I get that Paul. It wasn't meant as a dig. Just a correction as should anyone wish to look it up. Thanks.
@@walker675 "I thought you would know that" made it read as a dig or a smart arse comment so understandable
@@pauldavison7105 apologies if it came across like that. Really appreciate this guys content. Not meant as a dig
Don't they do car parks might explain the congestion mainly around airports.
If you don't have a cruise control or speed limiter to keep you at the speed limit, it's easy to drift a couple of miles per hour above the limit and not notice, but excessive speeding i.e. 80mph on a motorway or 40mph in an urban 30 zone there is absolutely no excuse as you know you're doing it, and you're probably speeding intentionally and deserve a fine.
That's why most forces follow the guidance of
10%+2mph (some have +3) and with car speedos over reading you're safe if you drift over a little.
Hell, I'm to old to speed now! 🤪 good one thankyou for sharing,
I recently received a speeding ticket...
I was doing 50 in a 30 zone like 10 feet after the change. ... I wasn't paying attention to the speed signs, it was a night and there less visible...
I'm have a provisional licence...
I replied to the letter they sent...
Checked evidence...
I haven't had any judgement yet.
But I'm concerned I'm going to get 6 points...
I don't know how any of it works ... or what's likely to happening...
All I can say to future watchers.. be careful... check the speed.
Especially now there going to be using average speed checks on most main roads... through villages and places where speeding is higher....
I also heard news about new cars being fitted with restrictive speed limitator
....
I am in road safety ie volunteering and we have to do the 10 plus 2 rule, anyone who goes at that limit is a first time offender, then eventually if they keep doing it the police put them on a Watch List and eventually catch them. It really is quite fast when they go at that limit. It amazing how many motorists speed like lunatics where there so many hazards just because they want to go somewhere quickly. Sometimes they speed because they are guilty of something else, ie no tax, MOT or being stolen.
Trouble is, most accidents are at spends less than the speed limit, most fatalities are at less then the speed limit.
Legalities aside, the problems are not motorway / dual carrageway roads, its minor and small A roads.
The fixation on speed limits are stupid, its far more important that people drive to the road conditions, the ability of the car and driver, and that is absolutely why the police should have the ability to judge situations rather then try and fit to a hard and fast rules.
The other problem is what is your actual speed? 30 on the dash in my car is not 30 in my wifes car. Changed your tyres recently? what about the previous owner changing the wheel sizes, you could have perhaps a 5% difference in speed depending on what wheel size it was calibrated on to what it is currently running.
And that is why a zero tolerance policy is stupid and why a couple of police mates of mine, ones in traffic, the others a real police man and neither would bother with anything less than 10%, they are far more interested in how you are driving rather than how fast.
Speed limiters are definitely safer than cruise control.
Having to actively depress the accelerator instead of just passively sitting there, falling asleep or whatever, is the way to go.
Paying attention and knowing when to slow up is whats important. Cruise control takes away concentration and is not a saftey aid. The blanket 20 mph in london and wales was done for politions ego. In most other parts of the country they were put in place for very good reasons. Many limits are also too high for the road so sticking to the limit could be hugly dangerious. Its physics that causes crashes not the law.. God, Physics then Law.
...yet, studies have shown that it is not speed that is the issue, but rather the lack of speed that causes the accident...
Where there is a sign stating that there should be no parking or stopping at any time, and a vehicle that appears to be an official police vehicle has parked there for the purpose of taking images of people exceeding the speed limit, surely this amounts to inadmissable evidence as the law has been breached in order to obtain evidence of an alleged RTA offence?
Police vehicles. I have parking exemptions but even if they didn't, the legality of where the vehicle is parked is not a defence to speeding
Your comment about using your cruise control rather suggests that you are of the mindset that adhering to the limit automatically makes you safe. This is nonsense since safety often has little to do with speed (it's just easier to measure than quality of driving). There are many roads around my way with a 30mph limit that I wouldn't dream of reaching the limit on because visibility is poor and a child could run out in front of me; conversely, we have recently had 30mph limits applied to open roads that do nothing but cause drivers to disrespect the law. A friend of mine was once stopped when doing around 90mph on a dual carriageway; the officer informed him that he had been significantly over limit, but since the overall standard of his driving was excellent (good signalling, following distances, awareness) his offence would be overlooked.
Completely agree, people are far too focused on speed when the speed limit is quite arbitrary. Driving standards are a much more important factor. I would feel much more comfortable with a driver going 10mp/h over the limit and fully concentrated than someone lounging in the drivers seat with cruise control on and listening to a podcast (and yes cruise control does make drivers less focused, it is designed for empty highways in place like America in my opinion rather than UK roads).
The focus on all the 'speed kills' rubbish is ridiculous. I would have thought someone with the brains to be a barrister would have the sense to see that but apparently not. Appropriate speed for the conditions has nothing to do with speed limits. That appropriate speed for the conditions is different for so many combinations of variables of vehicle, driver, weather, density of other road users, types of other road users, road condition, vehicle condition, driver condition (tired or fully awake, etc), etc, that it is impossible for one speed to fit all, even if it's variable and changes for every metre of road. Speed limits are nonsense and actually increase danger in the case of multi-lane average speed zones. 2, 3, 4+ lanes of traffic all sitting bang on 50 mph for mile after mile, side by side in each others' blindspots. What could possibly go wrong with that if a truck needs to change lanes for an exit!?
Apologies for the rant. I get a bit passionate when talking about driving. :)
That dashcam clip he showed. Had he properly assess the risk he was approaching he would have eased off the accelerator and probably not even needed to brake.
@@markwright3161 You are 100% correct.
@@markwright3161 His dashcam clip is not a valid argument against speeding, as a good speeding driver would have the sense to slow down approaching a junction, something the driver in the clip did not have the sense to do.
When I used a Tom Tom navigation system It said the speed I was travelling at and on the motorway my speedo was at close to 80 MPH and the navigation system said I was doing 68MPH. The Speedo can be up to 11% out the last I knew.
You get 20mph speed limits for schools because there are lots of kids about who have less road safety awareness and yet at night, when school is closed and there are no kids about, it's still 20mph?
It's a limit not a challenge! The example used wasn't indicative of speed just poor driving
Nice and helpful and interesting video - as are your other videos that I have seen - thanks for all you work in this area.
One of the things that I've been looking at is calibration certificates that speed cameras use, and I wonder if anyone had some ideas on the issue below.
I think that the handheld speed cameras need an annual calibration certificate and an addition calibration check at the start and end of a day, together with records of where the officer stands and what the weather conditions are - so that in effect two calibration certificates are needed, although the one done on the day is called something other than a calibration certificate - a Record Sheet or similar.
The most common devices used in the UK are probably the handheld Trucam devices. One thing that confuses me though is could anyone explain why for Laser Tech UK Trucam devices , there appears to be a discrepancy between the Home Office calibration certificate requirements for the mobile Trucam speed camera devices and examples of the calibration certificates available online from different police forces?
My understanding was that there is guidance that set out some minimum requirements, which is similar in the newer and older Home Office guidance. An extract from the guidance says....
"In addition the following information shall appear on the calibration certificate:
i) the pulse repetition frequency or appropriate clock frequency shall be listed against the expected value;
.....
iv) a table of actual and corresponding measured range. If presented, the corresponding speed readings shall also be listed, or a statement verifying they were all 0 mph, given. "
So for point (i), sometimes only one value of pulse repetition or clock frequency appears on some Laser Tech calibration certificates (Dorset Police 21-0319) and it is not clear if that is actual measured or the nominal manufacturer value, whilst on others no value appears and they simply write "Pass" (Warwickshire Police 23-0698). Can anyone explain why this does not appear to be compliant with these minimum requirements as the expected and actual values need to be recorded for the pulse repetition frequency or appropriate clock frequency of the device , i.e. there should be two values of frequency on the certificate? Writing "Pass" is not writing a frequency value and writing one frequency value is not writing an expected value and an actual value for the unit. The word "against" clearly sets out that there should be two values doesn't it? If the values were only a very small amount out it could introduce significant errors in the speed measurement I guess.
For point (iv) it appears from the Home Office guidance that a table is required with actual and corresponding measured range values. Most Laser Tech Trucam calibration certificates seem to have only the actual range value column, which looks to be the ranges measured out on the ground with a measuring wheel or similar, with no indication of the speed camera measured range value or any error in that measurement. The guidance says that the actual distance value should be recorded with the measured value. This does not appear to have been done on the calibration certificates that you can find on the web - again, am I missing something? Instead, "Pass" is usually written in a column titled "0 mph" next to a column of fixed distances. Surely this is totally ambiguous and does not appear to be compliant with the minimum required information that should appear on the certificate. It would not be clear if the "0 mph" column was meant to indicate if the distance measurement was a "Pass" or the 0mph reading was a "Pass" at that distance - neither of which would appear to be compliant with the guidance in any case. I'd thought that the reason that the minimum requirements for calibration certificates are specified to be measured values, is as an extra safeguard, to give confidence that the annual calibration has actually been performed. So does anyone know how these LTI devices have calibration certificates that do not appear to have a calibration measurement of distance on the calibration certificate, that would indicate that the device had been properly calibrated for distance measurements in compliance with the guidance.
The second part of point (iv) says " If presented, the corresponding speed readings shall also be listed, or a statement verifying they were all 0 mph, given." - again, this does not appear to be what is done on the Laser Tech calibration certificates. Am I misunderstanding something else here ?
Is Home Office guidance something that they need to follow with calibration certificates when the guidance says it's setting out minimum requirements - what's the point of having a calibration certificate at all if someone can pick and choose if they stick to what's described as "minimum requirements" for a calibration certificate ?
You can find lots of examples of calibration certificates on google searching "lti calibration certificate" - and there is some variability in the format and type and amount of quantitative information in them. Guidance on calibration certificates can be found googling "a guide to calibration requirements for traffic enforcement " - and whilst newer guidance has been released in the past couple of years, I though that the newer guidance still contained the requirements specified above.
I recently attended a driver awareness course, and we were advised by the instructor not to use the cruise conrol as a speed limiter. They (the speed limiters) encourage you to drive right on the speed limit regardless of conditions. The speed limit is the maximum considered to be safe. You are quite at liberty to drive more slowly.
That’s interesting. I certainly can see how some people will not be able to handle it in a safe manner
Yes but not too slowly unless in traffic etc, as driving too slow can cause crashes too
Yep , I agree cruise control lulls you into a false sense of security and allows for the mind to wander with one less thing to worry about. Too many motorists drive into situations with the attitude of it's my right of way , it's my right to travel at the maximum permitted limit, failing to comprehend that the maximum permitted speed limit is only applicable where and when it is safe to do so , and not a fundamental right regardless. As this chappy indicates , then we enter the area of due care.
@@beaulieuonnp593 It would be your impatience causing all those crashes
@@presidentoftherepublicofca4080 doubt it as I don't drive. As a road safety person. we have to report speeders and slow drivers.
so basically for any motoring offence you 'the registered keeper' is guilty until YOU prove YOUR innocence.
is that how democracy works ?