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The Late Show ITV Franchise guess

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  • čas přidán 8. 02. 2009
  • On the night before the ITV franchises were announced in 1991, media journalist Ray Snoddy took a guess at which companies would be successful.

Komentáře • 68

  • @97channel
    @97channel Před 8 lety +30

    Credit where it's due, he had the entire thing sussed out. Nobody could say for certain how it was all going to go, but he was spot on with his analysis, even if the exact outcome varied ever so slightly. Take him down the bookies with you, he's the man.

  • @mattypad777
    @mattypad777 Před 2 lety +5

    In a fairer universe, I personally would have rewarded each franchise if it was different:
    North Scotland- Grampian
    Central Scotland- Scottish
    Southern Scotland/Northern England- Border
    North East- Tyne Tees Television
    North West- Granada Television
    Yorkshire and Lincolnshire- Yorkshire
    Midlands- Central
    Wales and West- Teledu Cymru/Television Wales and the West
    East England- Anglia
    South East- Southern Television
    South West- Westward Television
    London Weekday- Thames
    London Weekend- Rediffusion
    Northern Ireland- Ulster
    I personally feel this would have been a fairer playing field, down the line if it was very different and not the same.

    • @williamfitzgerald2007
      @williamfitzgerald2007 Před 2 lety +1

      I'd disagree with Westward, it wasn't the system which brought them down, it was their in-house squabbling. Maybe if they were more stable, they wouldn't have been bought by TSW in August '81, and how far are you going back? That's pretty much the exact same as the Franchises as they stood in '67, with the exceptions of Rediffusion in London Weekend, which would've made Thames pretty much impossible as that was 48% owned by Rediffusion. THe other exception being Central, which once again, was 48% owned by ATV Network's parent company for the 1st year. I mean, I know you're speaking about a perfect world, but would'nt have Granada gone down the same path it did in real life, just with them merging with, say, Rediffusion, which would've had 48% of Thames, instead of merging with Carlton?

    • @darren2514fv
      @darren2514fv Před rokem

      @@williamfitzgerald2007In 1967 it was also predicted that in London Rediffusion would keep Weekdays while ABC (forced out by the decision to split the North into 2 separate regions both with new 7 day licences and the Midlands a new 7 day licence) would get the Weekend franchise which would be extended to 7pm Friday (5:15pm from 1982) to Closedown on Sunday but the David Frost led group caused the upset which led to ABC and Rediffusion merging to form Thames. But in the original North (which would be split into 2 separate franchises with 7 day licences one being headquartered in Manchester which would cover South Cumbria/Lancashire/Cheshire/North Derbyshire and the other a new Yorkshire franchise which would be headquartered in Leeds) and Midlands areas. The predictions made by the press in 1967 were guessed right was that two rival groups bidding for the new Yorkshire franchise would be forced to merge into one company which was the Yorkshire Post led group and the Television Yorkshire Telefusion led group+. While in the West side of the Northern region Granada would keep the South Cumbria/Lancashire/Cheshire/North West Derbyshire* franchise. While ATV Network (rebranded as Central from 1982) would keep the Midlands (*based on the original 1967 local government set up as Merseyside and Greater Manchester would not come into existence until April 1974 and the Manchester based licence holder would not get the Isle of Man until 2009) (+Telefusion was a TV and Electrical goods retailer headquartered in Blackpool). While the Border region would have been abolished and split between Granada, Tyne Tees and Scottish

  • @GeorgeASFTHM
    @GeorgeASFTHM Před 14 lety +14

    It's also infuriating ironic that the "Overbid" limit that was placed on TVS' and TSW's bids and had forced them off the air at the end of 1992, could have easily allowed TV-am to automatically win if it had been enforced onto the Breakfast Television franchise, but of course as it was a national franchise, it was too lucrative for such a sanction.

  • @roblancs
    @roblancs Před rokem +7

    Applause for Central playing its cards right and kicking the greedy ITC where it hurt.

  • @GeorgeASFTHM
    @GeorgeASFTHM Před 15 lety +6

    In the case of TSW, it wasn't the bid that was too high, it was the franchise that was too small!

  • @CJODell12
    @CJODell12 Před 8 lety +10

    1:06. Scottish actually bid the same amount as Central.

  • @Blubatt
    @Blubatt Před 4 lety +5

    In a fairer universe, I personally would have rewarded each franchise as such:
    North Scotland- Grampian
    Central Scotland- Scottish
    Southern Scotland/Northern England- Border
    North East- North East Television
    North West- North West Television
    Yorkshire and Lincolnshire- Yorkshire
    Midlands- Central
    Wales and West- Merlin Entertainment
    East England- Anglia
    South East- Meridian
    South West- TSW
    London Weekday- Thames
    London Weekend- LWT
    Northern Ireland- Ulster
    I personally feel this would have been a fairer playing field, down the line. Without Granada and Carlton's foothold, the takeovers would have likely been slowed down, or non existent in some areas. If this happened, I would foresee this:
    1. Scottish and Grampian merge into STV.
    2. UNM would own Meridian and Anglia, but would have merged with Thames instead, creating the big region CPV-TV wanted.
    2. The Border region would have been scrapped, and shared between the combined STV, NETV, and NWTV.
    3. Yorkshire and Tyne Tees wouldn't merge and have as huge a debt, probably keeping Yorkshire safer from a takeover.
    4. Merlin could have become a Wales only service, with TSW taking it over (a bit like now)
    5. Thames would perhaps takeover LWT, eventually, and make it a 7 day service.
    6. Central or Westcountry would still be taken over by Carlton, but not change names, as the lack of London would make them weaker.

    • @davidmatthewvinotjr8396
      @davidmatthewvinotjr8396 Před 3 lety

      I'm Sorry, But How dare you force out Granada, the producers of the top show in Britain, Coronation street?

    • @Blubatt
      @Blubatt Před 3 lety +2

      @@davidmatthewvinotjr8396 I said 'A Fairer Universe'. And a fairer universe would have Granada lose the franchise

    • @davidmatthewvinotjr8396
      @davidmatthewvinotjr8396 Před 3 lety

      In any, and in ANY case, a loss of Granada would have been near catastrophic to ITV, as coronation street (the network’s big money maker) would have (IMO and speculative if Granada lost) gone to the BBC, and that would have cut a main Vein to the heart of ITV.
      Plus, would you really have liked a tv system with Redmond at the helm of the next to most important region after London proper? Better yet, what would have happened to ITV with no Granada.

  • @DN21Media
    @DN21Media Před 13 lety +4

    The guesses were good in the end.

  • @tomosburton1756
    @tomosburton1756 Před 12 lety +4

    Even as someone that can't properly remember regional ITV[I can only remember Carlton],I like what I've seen of TSW and I think had I been around at the time I would have loved it.

  • @ziggydamaestro
    @ziggydamaestro Před 2 lety +3

    And how did Granada make it so easily over the infamous "quality threshold"? Oh, that's right, they helped to write it.

  • @CJODell12
    @CJODell12 Před 11 lety +5

    Thames had bid £32.5 million while Carlton had bid £43.1 million.

  • @revinhatol
    @revinhatol Před 11 lety +2

    3:46 - In the East of England, some people there believed even Anglia joined the consortium.

  • @whatamalike
    @whatamalike Před 13 lety +4

    AH so disney had a hand in sunrise, that explains Diggit...

  • @johnking5174
    @johnking5174 Před 5 lety +5

    In my opinion here is how the 1991 ITV franchise round should have been: Thames and LWT keep their franchise. Meridian takes over from TVS. TSW in the South West keeps their franchise. Central TV should be taken over by Carlton. STV, UTV and Grampian keep their franchises. Granada should have lost and North West TV should have won. Anglia, Tyne Tees and Yorkshire keep their franchises. Channel TV maintain theirs. Border TV maintain theirs. Merlin TV should take over from HTV in Wales/West of England. TV AM keep their breakfast franchise. In that way, Carlton would not have got their grubby hands on London.

    • @seprishere
      @seprishere Před 4 lety

      No. North West TV's plans were completely impractical.

    • @pak8606
      @pak8606 Před 3 lety

      NWTV bid too much and with they might have had a bias towards Liverpool which would alienate viewers in Manchester. A lot of people think HTV should have lost as they were similar to Southern in the 1980 franchise round in they had become dated.

  • @Hampstead343
    @Hampstead343 Před 4 lety +6

    Granada was in greater danger than TSW, yet Granada passed but TSW did not.

    • @dlamiss
      @dlamiss Před 3 lety

      Granada was never in trouble because of two words "Coronation Street"

    • @pak8606
      @pak8606 Před 3 lety +1

      This was broadcast on 9th October 1991, 7 days before the results were announced. On the BBC Breakfast news on the morning of the results it was said that Thames and TV-AM would go due to being outbid and the most vulnerable companies outside of London were TVS and TSW because of their high bids. The feeling was Granada were not in danger as NWTV would not pass the quality threshold due to regional programmes not being up to scratch.

    • @Hampstead343
      @Hampstead343 Před 3 lety

      @@dlamiss Granada did gamble on the fact that NWTV would not pass quality threshold. And Carlton should've been disqualified on quality threshold.

    • @dlamiss
      @dlamiss Před 3 lety

      @@Hampstead343 Fair comment and in all honesty Granada was correct

  • @krisstarring
    @krisstarring Před 8 lety +12

    ITV as a whole couldn't make it over the quality threshold today.

    • @anthonyperkins7556
      @anthonyperkins7556 Před 3 lety +3

      ITV today is just an airtime sales company with programmes produced largely by independent production companies and decided by a central scheduler.

  • @GeorgeASFTHM
    @GeorgeASFTHM Před 15 lety +4

    I am almost certain that had Thames had bid the same as its rival CPV-TV (£45m - considering that CPV they failed the qualty test), TVS and TV-am had bid the same as Yorkshire (£37m) and TSW had bid the same as LWT (£8m?), they probably would all had kept their franchises.

    • @evonne_o
      @evonne_o Před 3 lety +1

      Thames would of still lose because of Maggie 's total hate towards Thames.

    • @pak8606
      @pak8606 Před 3 lety

      You're probably right. Meridian bid around £36m and ousted TVS, Westcountry only bid £8m to oust TSW. Had TSW bid £10m and TVS £40m they would probably have stayed.

    • @rtc9063
      @rtc9063 Před 2 lety

      The problem was Thames had a big staff bill as well as studios to maintain. Saying that it turned out they were spot on because Carlton couldn’t pay the £43million and had to get a reduction to this. But even if the licence had been revoked, Thames probably couldn’t have gone back

  • @TVMocksTim
    @TVMocksTim Před 15 lety +3

    TSW should never of been taken off air, TSW was popular with everyone its was bold and served its region well, we are a small region and we dont all like a london styled based station, TSW stood up for its self and made it feel like u were part of the ITV family, since Westcountry took over they have movd away from that family feel, and now ITV means nothing but complete and utter trash and wasting money on rubbish trying to be popular but has failed

  • @williamg209two
    @williamg209two Před 3 lety +1

    funny he thought another franchise battle would happen after 1991

  • @davidmatthewvinotjr8396

    IN SUMMARY:
    ALL PRICES ARE IN BRITISH POUNDS.
    MIDLANDS: Central Bid 2,000 and was UNOPPOSED
    BORDERS/ISLE OF MAN: Border Bid 50,000 and was UNOPPOSED
    CENTRAL SCOTLAND: Scottish Television (STV) Bid 200,000 (some say 50,000) and was UNOPPOSED
    NORTHEAST: Tyne Tees Bid 14.5 Million , Opposed by North East Television (NETV), who bid 5 million . WINNER:TYNE TEES (Highest Incumbent Bid)
    YORKSHIRE AND LANCASHIRE: Yorkshire Television Bid 37.7 Million Pounds, opposed by Viking Television, who bid 30 Million, and White Rose Television, who bid 17 Million. while the ITC originally considered FAILING the Yorkshire Television Bid for Financial reasons... The WINNER: YORKSHIRE TELEVISION (Highest Incumbent Bid)
    EAST OF ENGLAND: Anglia Television Bid 17.8 Million , opposed by CPV-TV (who bid 10.1 Million) and Three East Television (3ETV), who bid 14.1 Million. WINNER: ANGLIA TELEVISION (Highest Incumbent Bid) (CPV Failed on Quality)
    WALES AND WEST: Harlech Television (HTV) Bid 20.5 Million, opposed by Channel 3 Wales and West (C3WW) who bid 18.3 Million, Merlin Television, who bid 19.4 Million, and C3W (same name as C3WW but with one W) who bid 17.8 Million. WINNER: HTV (Highest Bid)
    SOUTHWEST: Television Southwest Bid 16 Million but was Controversially Thrown out because of their bid being too High. Westcountry Television bid 7.8 Million. TSW took the matter all the way to the high courts, but the courts sided with Westcountry. WINNER: WESTCOUNTRY TELEVISION
    ADDITIONAL NOTE ON SOUTHWEST: Out of the franchise changes, TSW is the one I find to be the most Unfair, since TSW had a bid that was the same size mark as Anglia and Tyne Tees. I find as that IF Anglia was OK with a 17.8 Million Bid, Yorkshire being OK with a bid of 37 Million, and Tyne tees being OK with a bid of 14.5 million, Why not TSW with a bid of 16 Million.
    NORTHWEST: Granada bid 9 Million opposed by Mersey Television (North West Television, Headed by Phil Redmond), who bid 35 Million. Redmond had backing of Tyne Tees and Yorkshire, but was thrown out on grounds of Quality. WINNER: GRANADA (Quality threshold) FURTHERMORE, Granada actually KNEW about some of the Mersey TV Plans to bid, so they had plans to sell their shows, including what is most likely the Most well known show in All of the UK, Coronation Street, to Outside producers. And it is also thought that the Quality Threshold was Granada's Idea.
    LONDON (FRI-SUN): London Weekend Television (LWT) bid 7.5 Million Opposed by London Independent Broadcasting who Bid 35 Million. WINNER: LWT (Quality Threshold)
    SOUTH/SOUTHEAST: Television South (TVS) Bid 60 Million, and was thrown out because of a Outrageously high bid. Other opponents included Carlton (18.1 Million), and CPV (22.1 Million) (SEE East of England) WINNER: Meridian Television at 36.5 Million.
    CHANNEL ISLANDS: Channel Television (CTV) Bid 1,000 Pounds Opposed by CI3 group who bid 102,000 pounds, but failed on Quality. WINNER: CTV (Quality)
    NORTHERN IRELAND: Ulster Television bid 1.01 Million opposed by Television Northern Ireland (TVNI) and Lagan Television at 2.7 million. Lagan Failed on Quality, TVNI failed on Financial. WINNER: Ulster (would rebrand as UTV) By default. It is also figured that Ulster got a "Exceptional Circumstances" clause due to the Political situation in Northern Ireland at the time of the 1991 auction.
    NORTHERN SCOTLAND: Grampian Television Bid 725,000 Pounds. Outbid By Channel 3 Caledonia (1.1 Million) and North of Scotland Television (NSTV) (2.7 Million). Both competitors lost on the basis of Quality. WINNER: Grampian (Quality)
    LONDON (MON-FRI) Thames Bid 32.77 Million. Outbid by Carlton at 43 Million and CPV at 45 Million. While CPV was thrown out on Quality, For some reason, Carlton got through and won the franchise WINNER: Carlton (highest Bid). Thames would continue on as an Independent Producer. they are now under a company called Talkback, and was at one time under Pearson Communications.
    NATIONAL BREAKFAST: TV-AM Bid 41.1 Million. Outbid By Sunrise Television (34.6 Million) and Daybreak Television (33.2 Million) WINNER: SUNRISE TELEVISON (Highest Bid) Sunrise would be told to change their name to GMTV (Good Morning Television) due to a claim from Murdoch's Sky Group.

    • @NelvanaFan1971
      @NelvanaFan1971 Před rokem

      who was in the daybreak consortium

    • @davidmatthewvinotjr8396
      @davidmatthewvinotjr8396 Před rokem +1

      @@NelvanaFan1971 Daybreak, according to what I have found, was through ITN, with MAI and Carlton also having small selections. There was also the possibility NBC could have been a partner.

  • @SuperTed19021
    @SuperTed19021 Před 5 měsíci

    *Just what if* Phil Redmond won..........?

  • @shadicTPZ
    @shadicTPZ Před rokem

    The fact that people thought Carlton didn't have a single good programme, how the hell did the past the quality threshold?

    • @CJODell12
      @CJODell12 Před 10 měsíci

      We’ll never know how Carlton passed it. Their only program of any real merit was Inspector Morse.

    • @mikemartin2957
      @mikemartin2957 Před 2 měsíci

      ​@@CJODell12which was inherited from Central after 1995! Carlton were a publisher broadcasted, who only commission shows , from " independent producers". They don't even own studio's, hiring LWTs South Bank facilities.

  • @edmund184
    @edmund184 Před 8 lety +7

    Possibly the point in which British TV was destroyed?

    • @edmund184
      @edmund184 Před 8 lety +1

      +edmund184 Thanks Maggie.

    • @johnking5174
      @johnking5174 Před 8 lety +1

      +edmund184 Correct. the 1990 broadcasting act was the starting point, the ITV franchise bidding was the end. It was not a real auction. It was guess work, unless you could find out if anyone was bidding against you. The most stupid framework for ITV is the franchises. In the US the situation as the affiliates. However there is no bidding wars, just an independent company making an agreement with a US network to cover a certain city or area. ITV should have followed that way maybe.

    • @johnking5174
      @johnking5174 Před 8 lety +2

      +edmund184 Originally it was "winner takes all", meaning who ever bid higher would win. It was David Mellor who persuaded Thatcher to amend the act to ensure there was a "quality" threshold. It meant nothing really, just an empty void which tried to make the ITC cared about quality rather than money.

  • @edmund184
    @edmund184 Před 8 lety

    Phil Redmond won't make it over the quality threshold. Really????

    • @Blubatt
      @Blubatt Před 6 lety +1

      Latter day Brookside and current day Hollyoaks.

    • @HarenchiFairy
      @HarenchiFairy Před 4 lety +1

      That’s Mersey Productions Styled North West Television Limited, bid colossal £35 Million

    • @davidmatthewvinotjr8396
      @davidmatthewvinotjr8396 Před 2 lety

      Well, If it was any other region, he Possibly would have got it, BUT, since he was going up against the mighty Granada, the producers of World In Action and Coronation Street, he probably had very little to no shot at getting the North West franchise.

    • @NelvanaFan1971
      @NelvanaFan1971 Před 8 měsíci

      ​@@davidmatthewvinotjr8396I Think it had to do with Redmond's bias towards Liverpool

  • @mattypad777
    @mattypad777 Před 3 lety +1

    Granada was in greater danger than TSW, yet TSW passed but Granada did not.

    • @johnking5174
      @johnking5174 Před 3 lety

      TSW put up a lot of money, which the ITV felt they could not afford to pay per year. That was their mistake.

    • @mattypad777
      @mattypad777 Před 2 lety

      If it was turned around the opposite way.