HANDLEBAR HELPER | Measuring your true sweep.
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- In "Selecting the Right MTB Handlebars for Maximum Joy | Measuring Yourself for Your Optimal Sweep. Alex is joined by bike fit guru Lee McCormack from Leelikesbikes.com.
We hear all the time that selecting the MTB handlebars with the right sweep is just a matter of personal preference. It is WAY MORE THAN THAT. Selecting a handlebar with the right sweep is one of the most important and impactful decisions concerning your mountain bike's ergonomics.
The great news is that it will only takes a few minutes to take the measurements necessary. After that you will know with complete certainty what handlebar sweep works best for YOU. The upside is less aches and pains and maximum joy and shred.
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joy-of-bike-2.creator-spring....
0:00 WELCOME
0:18 SWEEP MATTERS
1:31 HANDLEBAR NUMBERS
2:10 OUR SWEEP?
4:28 BAD IDEAS
5:09 MEASURING SWEEP
6:53 SWEEP BY BRAND
7:39 HOW MUCH UPSWEEP
9:16 LEE'S CHANGING
Love,
Alex
I would watch this even if I wouldn't have hands. Like a fish or something..
HAHAHAHA. I love the image. In your tank. Bumping the glass. Trying to get your owner to click on Joy of Bike. Cheers!
I can't believe how much wisdom I get here that exists absolutely nowhere else.
Your video might have fixed what my wife experienced for several years but could not explain it. No physio could help her. But we bought her a gravel bike lately, and Gravl bars basically have 0° and 90° backsweep. Her pain in the shoulder was gone riding her Gravel-bike even doing 50+mile rides. So I looked for bear geometry help and found your video. Thank you for that! Very glad I found you!
Alex and Lee, many of us are gutted you've stopped making videos. We understand you need to focus on your personal lives, but we hope you also understand what a huge contribution your videos are to the community. The two of you had/have something incredible that the rest of the world benefits from. I hope you reconsider and perhaps find a way to balance making videos while taking care of yourselves.
Trevor, it’s wonderful to read your words. I’m really proud of the channel and feel like the content continues to provide value. My intentions are always around the deeper message that is told through the bike. It’s never just about riding for me. Always as a teacher/student. So at some point the channel was limiting where I could put my energies as a student/teacher. I hope this makes sense. I fully expect there will be occasional new videos in the future because I have endless love for the bike and this community we’re part of. In other news, Lee just came out with two or more new videos. One is on pros closet and a couple on his own CZcams channel so check those out too. All the best my brother!!!
@@JoyOfBike Thanks for replying. Best of luck on your road ride and stay safe.
you guys have a bigger fanbase than you know...on my last ride bumped into a 70yr old trail builder/rider and he swore by your channel and how much he has learnt even after 30yrs of riding...Keep the good stuff coming.
That is awesome!
Yes in 2024, but thank you very much for these videos, a shame not to have found them before. I hope it's not too late for me. Arduous task now to find a handlebar that adapts to my ergonomic anomalys (each doll points a different angle) ^^ Love you guys
I think these two guys make the most clear and effettive videos out there. No fancy stuff in it, just clear concepts demonstrated, explainedand applied.
This video made a huge difference. I rolled my bar back til it was flat. That moved my elbows down to a more natural position. My elbows definitely appreciated that
Wonderful!
This is my favorite channel on youtube right now
Thank you two gents for this, it explains EXACTLY why my left wrist hurts w/the stock bar on my 2021 Meta HT AM Essential, whereas the 60mm rise, 4°up x 10°back of a Spank Spoon 60 does not.
The stock bar specs that I'm able to locate are:RIDE ALPHA R27 31,8 mm, 780 mm width, 27 mm rise. It's pretty flat...
I broke my left wrist as a kid by separating the radius bone from the growth plate. The Dr's said it was very possible that I'd require surgery to "stretch" the bone of the growth plate didn't reattach and continue growing. Lord willing it did, but until watching this vid, I never noticed how my left hand, when in the position of holding the handlebars, is canted with my thumb turned more towards my body.
The relatively flat bar of the Meta inflamed this, thr Spank bar does not, because science.
Keep it up gents, I'm growing in skill and knowledge because yall are good teachers!
Tx
You're not alone! We didn't mention it but neither of us are symmetrical. One wrist had a slightly different relaxed angel than the other. So perhaps best to shoot for a number in between.
I just ordered a Spank Spoon 60mm with 10 degree back and 4 degree up. I'm hoping it will allow me to ride more upright (not hunched over) and eliminate the pins & needles in my left arm.
Are you guys the only ones that make things make sense with sensible tools to find out what works and what doesn't? cause you guys have the best info on stuff
Chilled breakfast vibe from this video. Plus some light crafting with pencils and tape. Perfect to wake up to!
Finally someone talks about it! Everywhere I have found advice just to "try out what suits you"..... Like everyone has weeks of time and hundreds of dollars to spend just to buy, ride and throw away handlebars....
Where have these videos been all my life? Great stuff!
This is the best tech information channel on CZcams. Some years ago I changed my handlebars and suffered with wrist pain. Even on short 10km rides. A simple rotation of some degrees and the problem became solved for years! The difference from hell to heaven is so close speaking of handlebar rotation.
What a godsend! You just saved me a whole lot of money, headaches and frustration. No more trial and error. I can buy the correct handlebar the first time. THANK YOU!
Some of the consistently best MTB content period. My riding improves with every video released.
Wow, thanks!
True about the joints, don't torture yourself, I suffered from knee pain while riding, but oval chainring solved it. And handle bar width solved my elbows cooling out of alignment all the time, now it only happens on gnarly technical stuff.
Guys, you've changed my rider (and friends) life so many times. Can't thank you enough !
This means a lot!!! Thank you!
This. Is. LEGIT. Did the measuring, a few times just to be sure, and kept getting a fuzz over 12deg. Sure enough SQLabs makes a 12deg backsweep bar. Local shop had 'em in stock, bam, on the bike. Just wrapped up a 10mi ride with a good mix of tech (both up & down) & flow. ZERO forearm pump, ZERO hand pain/numbness (typically get a little on the outside meat of my palms), and shoulders which usually let me know they're not happy at least a couple times during a ride didn't make a peep. They also put my RAD closer to a RAD+ from a RAD++ and that difference was so noticeable I'm pretty sure a new frame is in my future. Keep it up boys!
Loved reading this. Thanks.
Yes!
Yes!
Had a private call with Lee and my SQLAB bars arrived just today. Looking forward to finding out how they feel.
Let us know! 12 or 16?
Let me please introduce you to the bars i just got!
hayesbicycle.com/products/protaper-carbon-20-20-handlebar?variant=32139589320749
20 degree rise and sweep!..... 1 inch rise or drop, 780mm, 182 grams BEFORE cutting. Designed with the help of the single speed champion at the time.
Cant wait to put these on the bike I'm getting next year!
God bless you guys… there is so much idiocy out there. My specialized bike has bars that are wrecking my shoulders and making my hands numb. Sad that manufacturers just ignore this important issue. They are not helping their cause.
I had constant shoulder issues and could not figure it out. Lots of chiro, ART, etc to alleviate the pain. These helped but were not addressing the issue…and issue I didn’t realize I had. My bars were too wide! Three rides after cutting my bars down and bingo…shoulder pain and neck strain is basically gone. THANK YOU!!!!
I want to thank you for putting these videos together. 2023 I trained 7 months to race the BC Bike Race and even after buying a new bike I had all kinds of issues. Unfortunately I crashed in training 1 week before the race and broke my shoulder. On the upside I found your channel and the things you talk about translate directly to some of the challenges I have been having. Thank you for sharing things I have not heard from anyone else. I will be applying RAD and your bar fit recommendations as I start the long journey of recovery and readiness for the 2024 BCBR.
I will add that wide elbows (i.e. flared out elbows in a pushup position) adds more strain to the shoulder, where as closer in elbows puts more strain on the chest and upper back muscles. Obviously not a catch all but definitely something to be considered.
True facts. A narrow grip makes your muscles have to work much harder. I came at my cockpit setup from the perspective of what makes my shoulders feel good and powerful when lifting weights, which is elbows out so that upper-arm is about 45deg from body and then lower arm straight forward from there. Feels comfortable and I can pump the hell out of the front end. By contrast, having the elbows out further starts to cause an impingement (tendon pinching) which will lead to permanent damage.
Fantastic job once again. You guys tackle so many important issues and bring it down to earth for amateurs like me. Thank you!
Our pleasure!
I use and love sqlab 30x 12°. Discovered then some years ago and this solved my wrist pain when riding 👍
Same here. Best upgrade ever. I also have a 610 saddle on the way. Really good stuff.
You guys keep blowing my mind!!! Thank you
35-45 degrees sweep is pretty natural for "flat" bars. Like Jones bars.
Road drop bars of course are analogous to a 90 degree sweep.
This channel is absolute gold
Appreciate you!!
Awesome! Thank you so much for making this video and explaining it in detail.
Thanks again for a great vid guys. Keep em coming.
Maximum Joy... that's why I watch this channel! Love the conversations and honest break downs. Cheers and thanks guys 🤙🏻
wow! was looking for this vid for so long! thank you guys!
Perfect timing. I was just rewatching the handlebar width video and wondering how bar sweep figured into it.
Great channel , great team work.👍
Love the way you guys approach things 👍🏽
You guys have the best MTB videos out there.
You guys were always amazing on your videos...been watching it everyday lately. Informative stuffs! Keep rolling guys! Shoutout from the Philippines!!
Once I've recovered from AC joint reco. This is my next mission! Thanks again guys!
hope for your quick recovery... i know how it is just had 2 fractures on left wrist and was so down while not being able to ride.., lucky i heal pretty quick and was back on the Hill by the 4th week
@@weathdone Cheers mate. I've gotten myself a road bike now as well to get some miles into the legs. It's nice to get out and ride long distances and have some head space
@@darrenmcintyre3689 no doubt brotha stay safe out there....
I dig the cooking show format! Showing the science of how and why really helps get an understanding of all the little nuances of bike riding that add up to making a big difference overall.
Well done!
This was so useful. Over the last week of bingeing this channel I’ve worked out so many things I need to change on my bike and my backsweep is 15 degrees! which doesn’t fit my bars at all. Plus I discovered a local pump track. Lots of wiggle(UK) purchases. At 49 I almost gave up XC riding for road riding but now have new enthusiasm for learning new MTB skills I neglected my whole life. Thanks so much!
This video is so important. Every rider should watch this. I learned the importance of correct bar set up by trial and error over many years.
Your sweep-o-meter is a genius way to fast-track the process and save people from a lot of cost, experimentation and discomfort.
Sirs - I salute you once again.
I was lucky that the standard works well. I think 7 or 8 is the standard because it will work for most. But not all and if you are outside the norm it's important to know.
You make awesome videos! Thank you for another great one!
Really appreciated the tips! I’ve looked for this kind of info elsewhere and your videos are the only ones I could find that really explain it. Subscription activated!!
This channel is just so fresh and dope as the young kids used to say! You guys keep killing it! Love just a different kind of show on the same topic!
These guys are great. Explaining complex bike ergonomics in a fun and efficient way. I've watched two of theirs in a row. Learned a lot about potential reasons for numb hands.
This is exactly why I change pretty much every contact point the second I get a new bike: saddle, bars, grips, pedals & stem. I want the bike to fit me perfectly. Not just whatever the manufacturer thought would fit most people.
I don't run SQlab bars, but I have their saddle on every bike I own.
Very nice saddles.
Very nice saddles.
A BIG like button for you, guys! Always so interesting! I Look forward the next one! 🤓
Great topic again! high five
Another day. Another gem. 🤟
Simple and brilliant! You guys are amazing.
You rock!
Yup, the traditional 8 back 5 up, 20mm rise bars that come stock on most bikes make my hands go numb. I run the PNW Range bar (the Kyle Warner signature bar) with 10 back 5 up and 30mm rise and am perfectly comfortable all day.
THANK YOU for this video: BEST help for selecting the right backsweep
One interest thing Alex said at the end was that he rotated the bars back a little. Since those bars have both an upsweep angle and back sweep angle, when the bar is rotated, it may actually increase the back sweep angle as well... Check it out when you get a chance.
I used to own a bowling pro shop. A high level player will have very specific requirements for their grip and it can take some fiddling to dial it in just so. Likewise, pain is a warning that you need to change things. This makes perfect sense and is starting to answer some nagging questions about my bike fit. I'll find something the same diameter as my bar grips and make a sweep-o-meter soon.
Thank you Alex and Lee!
Nice videos been sharing them all with my step father and he has also been finding lots of benefits.
This... was awesome. You guys are smashing it.
Wow...seriously... I went out today, and wanted to put this to the test as I've been getting pins and needles in my left hand on XC type rides, and I literally adjusted the bars as you showed, watched the sweep come back towards me a bit, and tightened it all up again...and....boom...no more tingling in the hand!!
Best vid I've seen on mtb recently by far. Thank you so much.
Great video! Never paid much attention to up/back sweep, only focused on the rise! Just went to a 3" rise protaper and it's awesome, now I need to do the pencil trick and see how it stacks up to my ergonomics!
This is one of the best videos regarding how subtle angles greatly affect your comfort and/or performance. Bravo to all involved in this video. And thank you for the valuable information.
Such a great channel. You and Lee are perfect duo! After my shoulder replacement, I bought a Rip Row from Lee to get me ready for the season and funny you guys posted this video about bars because I just started wondering if I had the right bars and you guys just turned the light on in a dark room! Over 55 learn to mtb!
Awesome! Thank you!
It’s great to hear this piece on biomechanics and ergonomics. Turning 50 this year and don’t want to ignore these things.
Great video. I have a buddy that would always tell me my bars needed to be rolled forward more and I didn't have a reason why, but I always liked it better when mine were rolled back. Sounds like I don't like the upsweep either. I didn't know why I did it other than I just like the way it feels better. This video was really eye opening to me. Thanks for doing this. Glad I listened to one of my subscribers that recently mentioned it.
Man, once again, you guys rock! spot on with your advice for measurements. Always wondered why I felt more comfortable on my old Salsa bar vs my other bars.. The Salsa has 11 deg back sweep. According to my measurements I need about 10.5. Thanks a million! I know what I'll look for in my new bars.
Wow this is absolutely brilliant. Thanks for the info!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is such a Golden learning for me, thanks
🔥👌🚴♀️
u guys rock!!!!! simple as it is... the knowledge dropped in your vids is incredible and just wanna say thanx ...
Took me 3 years to get my bar setup for my duel sport bike some what comfortable.
I had 2 disk and a cage put in my neck and 2 shoulder surgeries. My movement now has been shorten.
Definitely going to look into the back sweep.
Just picked up a stumpjumper. And man my bars are too wide and straight.
Thank you for your videos!
Been researching to determine the correct back sweep as my final tweak to my new flat bar gravel bike. This video was extremely helpful in confirming the right number (12 degrees), which turns out to be the sweep recommended by SQ Lab for my more upright riding position. Thanks very much for posting.
I love these awesome informative videos!! Your video production level is really great too!
I’ve gotten better at that but i still have a room to grow!!!
I do rotate my bar to adjust the back sweep. Since I'm 5'1" I do monitor my back sweep and the way it is for me is, when I can manual or bunny hop easily that is my tune, without worrying about degrees. Although it may take hours to find my right handlebar sweep position.
Really great and useful advice with excellent explanations. Brilliant video as always, thank you. 😃👍🏻
Glad it was helpful!
Your videos on bike ergonomics are great and really important! I see so many people riding expensive bikes that don't fit them properly (frame size, saddle position, saddle height, handlebar width and angle, cleat position). Some even give up cycling because they feel uncomfortable even though most of their issues could be solved by proper adjustment or an inexpensive swap.
SO helpful. Thank you! Glad I found this before I bought a bar based on what a friend is riding/recommends.
Excellent video boys!!! Need to reevaluate my bars for sure.
Wow this is crazy cool!
thank you for sharing this video!
Great stuff gentlemen! Thanks for sharing this knowledge.
You bet!
I always wondered how backsweep worked. Now I feel I can make my ergonomics work better for me on the bike.
Wow. Awesome stuff.
Great information. We forget how tight and compact our nervous system is within our skin/body cavity. A SMALL position change can affect pressure on any nerve in the wrong way.
So informative!! Thanks guys…
Thanks for the video. So important to make your bike fit you. I was like Lee when I raced that if I thought it would make me faster then that’s what I used regardless of ergonomics. At this point I am all about the comfort and making it fun to be on the bike. I have cut my bars down a bit more and rotated them so there is no upsweep and I have a shorter stem coming to dial in my seated reach. Great content that is often overlooked. Thanks again.
Can't thank you guys enough. As a busted up older rider i really want to thank you for all the info. I am now enjoying riding more than dreading the aftermath of aches and pains. Keep up all the great work.
YESBRO!!!
More good stuff.....Thank you for making this.
The two of yous are so entertaining to watch. Keep it up!
We have fun. Stay shreddy.
Thank you guys ! I've been thinking about getting a wide flat bar, but thanks to your information I've been able to figure out with a couple of pencils and an angle measure, that I need my habdlebar seriously bent back. You might have saved me quite a bit of health trouble... on the other hand an orthopedic practitioner just lost some consulting money.
Now, this give me more consideration to use mtb handle bars... 💪
Great video!!
U guys are good….. absolutely love this channel
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Get me thinking every week…. Great great content…. Just when I’m changing bars…. 👌🏻
Good food for thought as usual. One item to consider is that by going from 8 degree to 17 degree sweep it will place your hands at least 50mm further back. 800mm Bars with an 8 Degree sweep that assume the centre of the hands are 50mm from the end of the bars put the hands back 50mm, which, with a 50mm stem, puts the steering radius in the centre of the steerer. Going 50mm past this affects the reach and puts the steering radius behind the centre of the steerer. Sort out one problem and potentially create another.
The variable is not everybody starts sweep in the same place. I agree wholeheartedly that center of grips behind the center of steerer is a feeling I do not like!!!! A few days ago I did a string test on Lee’s bike with his 16 sweep and 35mm stem and it was right exactly at the steerer. I suspected it might be further back. If your rad was perfect but you realized you needed more sweep you’d need to add some stem but not much.
@@JoyOfBike I guess the trick is to find bars where the sweep starts more towards the end of the bars i.e has a larger flat area in the middle of the bars. That way it won't be too bad. Personally I also went for a slightly longer stem (50mm to 70mm) which included an 8 degree rise in order to put my hands in the centre of the steerer (using the string test). I was also looking for increased stack height and a longer RAD so killed two birds with one stone, so to speak.
This is brilliant and well-needed following my having a scaphoid injury some years back. It appears that I am also a 17˚ sweep, and I am in the process of bringing back to life a Diamond Back Axis from '91. Looking for flat bars to accompany the original early 90's Deore XT levers and that's proving to be a mission as the original bars were dead flat! Whilst I am searching, just wanted to say a huge thanks for the science and personal approach that's needed for everyone out there to avoid injuries. A big thanks!
Aggreed no unsweep set flat with spirit level.
One trick i used from moto days was having a set of my favorite bars mounted on a sturdy platform and crank out push ups on them you soon learn what works for you ie flat backsweep i must have a renthal upper bod loved them on the moto and mtb great vid guys .
wow, i really appreciate this content thanks
One of your most interesting fitment concepts to date. Heading out to the garage to check my backsweep/upsweep settings. Thanks guys!
Have fun!
Ran chromag 8 back for a long time and got deity’s at 9 back and it was immediately noticeable. Went to deity bf800s 8 back. Trying fatbars this season, lots of good info in this!!
This was really good!!! Thank you!
A year later. This was so great. 👌🏼
lovely video! I noticed Lee's bar back sweep a couple of videos ago. I messaged him about what brand he uses as here in Australia is pretty hard to find "non-popular" handlebars. After lots of research to reduce the pain in my arms, I'm using the same brand SQlab as him, with 16o back sweep and EZI grips and the pain is gone! Thanks Lee!
Thank you, guys! I enjoyed this video!