"Homura Did Nothing Wrong" - Madoka Magica
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- No CZcams, this one definitely isn't for kids either.
As requested by you guys, we enter our third installment of the "Did Nothing Wrong" saga, Homura Akemi. A great choice too, one of my favorite characters and they're getting a new movie. If there's anything we enjoy talking about here on the channel, it's the suffering of fictional children, and where else would we find such ample supply of despair than in Puella Magi Madoka Magica, as well as its sequel film, Rebellion? But really now, what's the worst thing a time travelling teenager could do?
"Homura Did Nothing Wrong" - Madoka Magica
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[Mobius Mix] HAWX Lore VS Ace Combat Lore Music EXTENDED
• [Mobius Mix] Lore Musi...
Conturbatio - Puella Magi Madoka Magica OST
Incertus - Puella Magi Madoka Magica OST
Sis Puella Magica! - Puella Magi Madoka Magica OST
Puella In Somnio - Puella Magi Madoka Magica OST
Marshmellow (Prod. by Lukrembo)
• lukrembo - marshmallow...
Thanks for watching! Any suggestions for future videos? Let me know!
Congrats on the huge sub jump!
@@nogame.metakethrone.3007 thank you so much man! And thank you for always being around to watch :)
Can you do me next? Clearly I did nothing wrong. :)
@@lightyagami3492 Stay tuned 😉
@@TheDoomerDen I will definitely stay tuned! Im curious what you have to say about me afterall.
Canonically another reason Homura ended up not as attached to Mami is because as she kept repeating timelines Mami became her biggest obstacle in saving Madoka from her fate/ So for Homura she began to see Mami as one of the unsafest people for Madoka to be around. Because due to her loneliness Mami always ended up dragging Madoka and by extension Sayaka into this cruel fate that was causing Homura to be stuck in a timeline loop. So with that context it honestly makes sense why Homura grew so resentful and distant towards Mami as she began repeating the same timeline a hundred times.
I definitely agree!
Honestly, not having murdered her makes for a pretty impressive feat of restraint.
@@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013 yeah, especially when mami is pretty much the reason madoka and sayaka always die
@@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013 whose to say she didnt, but madoka seeing that a veteran magical girl being lost might cause her to make a wish to give homura and sayaka backup
@@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013 That's the thing, Homura became resentful of Mami, but she was never able to hate or look down on her because she was the one who taught her how to be confident, in fact I believe that the one who Homura got close on hating was Sayaka for being directly responsible for Madoka's anguish and suffering, with Mami being just the indirect cause of it.
Homura is protecting Madoka from her self sacrificing nature. She's protecting Madoka from herself.
Also, Homura isn't only focused on Madoka's happiness. She knows the other girls better than probably anyone. So she found a way for Mami to have Bebe to care for in the new world, so Mami is not as painfully lonely as she was in the other timelines. She brought Kyoko to the school to be friends with Sayaka, because she knows how good they are for each other. Kyoko has Sayaka to inspire hope in her, and Sayaka has Kyoko to pick her up after Kyousuke turns his attentions to Hitomi.
tbh I'd argue homura wasn't doing that out of any real care for those people, she was doing it to keep the sense of "normalcy" and familiarity within the world she's created. or dare I say, she's done it to try and make madoka happier and feel more comfortable
@@inactive_ina I highly disagree. It's not like Madoka is always around those girls to begin with. The original poster is correct, Homura not only cares about Madoka but others as well.
@@inactive_ina No, if she didnt care , she woulsnt include them. And madoka doesnt have to know them, yet they are there, if he didnt wanted them in their lifem, they werent there, she does care. She even wants sayaka to ground her, which is huge as sayaka was the one who dragged madoka down with nami, and truting her, she cares about them.
@@inactive_inaremember, Homura’s whole schtick was efficiency; fastest way to meet Madoka again, finding the shortest amount of steps and resets to save her and best way to deal with the Incubators.
If she didn’t care about the others, she would’ve left them out to spend eternity with Madoka, or less drastically, she didn’t physically hurt any of the girls (that we saw) in any retry
@@marocat4749 I agree with you an others, in this new world Madoka was a new transfer student so the others need not be here, so I think Humora cares about them all in some way much the same as having a better labyrinth than the one she had created before taking a slice of the law of cycles.
Akemi Homura. Poor girl, god.
From the beginning to the end her journey was a coastroller of tragedy and suffering. From a naive and skittish girl to a deranged and broken woman, all in the name of love.
And ultimately an example of how love, if untempered by reason and now opaque to the real needs of the beloved, can lead (as she herself said to Madoka in Ep. 4) to even greater tragedy.
@@Asehpe a newer show called centaurworld does a lot of this. Trying not to spoil it all but one fool convinced a woman wouldn’t love him as his real self and never even tried, made a choice that lead to the destruction of two worlds. This death and destruction was also continued for selfish reasons.
this hole thing about sacrificing your loved one or everyone else makes me think about The Last of Us
A very selfish love, she was a lot like Sayaka, believing what she was doing was selflessly for madoka, when there were selfish intentions beneath the surface of her actions. She did not care about what Madoka wanted, only that she have madoka with her forever, which is selfish af. She was definitely an interesting character, and the person I feel worst for is Madoka in the end.
It's so beautifully tragic
“Homura did nothing wrong”
She did and that’s why i love her
Pre-CISE-ly. I love her, too. She's made my own life deeper, and fuller.
All of the girls did things wrong, none of them were ever perfect that's what's great about Madoka magica it's more realistic that way
FRL shes not evil or anything but you can't just say shes innocent or not she is very morally grey and a good character! none of the girls did nothing wrong which makes the story more interesting and realistic since to a extent all of them were partly selfish in their own ways
What did she do wrong?
Love can and will make people do crazy shit you know?
Not only is this outright stated in the 4th movie's concept trailer, but if you read the lyrics from THE ORIGINAL SHOW'S FIRST ENDING (Mata Ashita), it's sung from Madoka's perspective about how she's sad and alone as a god and wishes she could see her loved ones (and specifically Homura) again. Combine this with the flower field scene and you have three separate pieces of PMMM media that outright tell us that Madoka isn't exactly living her best life as a concept.
I have to disagree with you….not with Madoka being unhappy, let’s be honest, she’s 14, I can’t blame her for being not to happy with suddenly becoming a god and a nothing more than a concept. I more disagree that that somehow excuses Homura from what she did to her. I feel like in terms of becoming a god, Madoka didn’t want to, but she knew if she wanted to change the system Magical Girls were suffering in she would have to. It’s really a lose-lose situation one both sides, either she doesn’t make the wish and all Magical Girls have to keep suffering endlessly to feed the universe, or become a god and lose your humanity and all evidence that you ever existed. Obviously it seemed in Madoka’s mind becoming a god with the lesser evil of the two. I don’t think it’s as simple as her not liking it, but her not liking it but knowing she had to do this, or Magical Girls would continue to suffer.
@@vulpiixfoxx That's the thing though, Madoka didn't really "change the system magical girls were suffering in", it's just that now they die when they fall into despair/deplete magic instead of turning into witches.
Post-Series, Kyubey still sought out magical girl candidates to collect energy, and magical girls would still have to fight wraiths and each other for resources. When you really think about it, the entire series up until ep. 8-9 could plausibly still take place under the rules of Madoka's universe.
@@NRobbi42 yes but that’s also the thing, yes Magical Girls still need to be made, but instead of having a fate where their in endless pain until someone kills them (becoming a Witch), Madoka just simply puts them out of their misery and allows for them to just peacefully die. The previous system didn’t allow that. It was either keep killing Witches or become a Witch yourself just waiting for someone to kill you. The system Madoka did not eliminate Magical Girls needing to exist, but instead allowed to just be able to Rest In Peace at the moment when they would become a Witch. And you can kinda pick up from her lines in Madoka Magica she didn’t want to completely change the Magical Girl system but instead enforce one where Magical Girls would not have to constantly suffer, and that includes when they become of witch. Her wish was even to eliminate all *witches* meaning it wouldn’t change need for magical girls but the enemies magical girls need to fight.
@@vulpiixfoxx And again, that's kinda the problem. There's a reason Homura's runes in Rebellion spelled out "they glorify death". The life of a magical girl is no less a miserable existence and a premature death isn't something to try to beautify.
@@NRobbi42 yes but here’s the thing. Would you rather a world where teenage girls are recruited as basically child soldiers who will inevitably turn into a god-awful monsters in continuous amounts of unimaginable pain and then get killed only for the cycle to start again, or would you like a world where teenage girls still have to become child soldiers, but at the end of their life they don’t have to become said god-awful monsters but instead die peacefully and to…idk Magical Girl Heaven lol. Basically at the end of the day what I’m trying to is that both worlds aren’t really good, it’s just that is slightly better than the other. Yes premature death is not something to glorify and nor is it good, but in this context where Magical Girls lives are already being cut in half by making the contract, so regardless there going to die prematurely, it’s just that one way you can die and in the other you have your humanity before you die. Dying prematurely is never a good thing…but I’d rather have people die in peace prematurely then becoming a monster before then.
Think of this situation is having sick dog only like 1-4 years old. That dog is still quite young and still some has a lot of life left, but it’s deathly sick and you can either watch it get worse until it succombes to that sickness, or put it down and take it out of its misery. For both it’s still dying prematurely, but for the second one your at least letting it die in peace.
19:54 I think this goes even beyond Madoka seeing the possible future depicted in Rebellion and being okay with it. It may be argued that she HOPED for that future to happen.
There's a theory that Madoka's red hair ribbon is more than just a memento she gave to Homura so she could hold it every night while she cries herself to sleep. In that specific scene, they're both depicted naked, somewhat semi aetherial, as to symbolize that in this dimension they are only present in their purest essential/spiritual form. So if this piece of clothing made its way here, it must in fact be more than just a piece of clothing. Madoka gives it to Homura just as she tells her that a miracle might happen and that she might remember her in the new reality, and that's what the ribbon symbolizes : the memory of past Madoka's existence and personality.
That's why Homura is the only one remembering past Madoka, since she wears the ribbon all the time. That's why Tatsuya reaches for the ribbon, since it's somewhat familiar to him. And finally, that's why Homura removes Madoka's gold ribbons at the end of Rebellion (Gold being the color of gods / ascended beings in eastern culture, also applies to Madokami's eyes) and replaces them with the red ribbons, giving back her past personality and exitence to Madoka (but also locking her into it), giving its full meaning to her line at that moment : "they look better on you" (= "that's who you truely are")
So, Madoka didn't just give Homura a memento, she literally entrusted her with her memories and past existence, hoping for a possible future where she could get them back, in case someone could find a loophole to keep her wish valid (saving magical girls from becoming witches) while avoiding the downside of being an abstract and isolated entity, a fate that she accepted as a price to pay, but technically never wished for.
omg yes i love this!
This is a really fun theory because the role of Sayaka and Nagisa in the law of cycles is to to do just that, but in reference to her existence as a god instead of her existence as a human. It's like Homura is a secret 4th part of the law of cycles that exists to bring Madoka back down to earth if the opportunity presents itself. Which, Homura being a part of the law of cycles period makes sense since as shown in Rebellion the only way you know who Madoka is is if you are part of the law of cycles, unless your name is Homura. I feel that Madoka was bluffing a bit when she pretended to be surprised that Homura made it to the end of the universe with her, she made sure personally to give some portion of it to Homura but without her knowing. Those strange distorted looking wings she's seen sprouting in the episode 12 post credit scene seem to lend to this idea too.
Another small thing to mention in reference to that is how Sayaka and Nagisa are long dead, and Madoka's existence is written out of the universe by the law itself, so we have no way to verify if Sayaka would have went to the end of the universe with Madoka too had she been alive. I also kinda believe that Madoka intended to add Homura to the law of cycles at the end of Rebellion, it just makes sense with the fact that everything that happened in that movie is because Homura didn't ascend with her so her continued mortal existence has proven to be a bit of an issue and she means more than enough to Madoka to qualify for that. Plus the way she says that they will be together forever now just rings in a very particular way. As a godlike being it's kind of unbecoming for her to say "homura-chan, now we can be together forever" when coming to take her to the afterlife.
I love fucking love this. Time to cry in the corner.
Actually kyubey is madokas mind because he is the villain
7:18. God that scream gets me everytime. It's so heartwrenching and you can feel Homura's pain through the screen
I agree for me it's the most impactful scene in the show.
@@TheDoomerDen For me, too.
must protecc homerun chan
@@Animetor Homura-chan protection squad
i was skimming through the comments before watching the video and i immediately knew which scene this would be. poor homura = (
There was an interview where Urobuchi noted that Homura had gone back in time nearly 100 times to save Madoka. So she's been reliving the same month for over eight years.
Month and a half approximately. 6 weeks.
That's about 10 to 12 years, give or take...yeah
Wasnt it that she just stopped count at 100 so really it's 100+ could be thousands for all we know
@@coraline2770 She lost count waaaaay before 100.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who liked Rebellion's ending right away, without needing multiple rewatches and deep analysis to realize that Homura was very much acting in character.
Besides, this new universe she created is a really nice one, so why would people consider her evil? Just because she calls herself a devil?
The law of cycles is still in place preventing any witches from coming into existence, Kyubey and his race are being tightly controlled and thus very unlikely to ever be able to cause another terrible situation and some of the people who died are even alive again and in a happy situation. So where is this "evil"?
Apart from the occasional glitch this new reality seems better than the old ones ever were.
I mean Im not a big fan since the original creator didnt plan for it to continue after that movie. The original ending was Madoka saving Homura and the reason she became a devil because of the studio. If it came from the author I wouldve been fine
Because Homura acted out of pure selfishness. Homura pulled Madoka into that alternate reality she created, ignoring her sacrifice. She doesn't really care what happens to everyone else as long as she has Madoka by her side. Also, if I remember correctly, she made Kyubey aware that there was a way of getting energy from girls (she told Kyubey how things were before, now he might try to implement that system again). It's like she didn't do it for the sake of being evil but she certainly doesn't seem to give any fcks if others have to die.
@@sunnivaleflair3576 it's not out of character though. It might not be the author's idea but the events do make sense.
@@rodrigohernanmino1372 I mean yes it does make sense but even then I personally wish for people to stick to the authors idea of an ending for his own show instead of studios pushing for more
@@rodrigohernanmino1372 But she did give Sayaka and Nagisa happy lives, when she could have just left them dead or eliminated them entirely.
So I think saying that she does not care at all seems wrong. She will without a doubt prioritize Madoka above everything and everyone else, but as long as it does not negatively impact her relationship with Madoka, she does care to make others happy as well to at least some degree.
And I don't think we can blame her too much for spilling the beans to Kyubey. At the end of the series I never expected the Incubators might try something like they did in Rebellion either despite already being an adult when I first saw the series.
While Homura has spent decades looping, she still isn't an adult. Not to mention she does appear to have a one-track mind that does not take anything but the most direct consequences of her actions into account more often than not.
Was it stupid to tell Kyubey? Yes, but I am quite certain there was no malicious intent or planning or wishing for events like in Rebellion to happen.
Meanwhile Homura from Magia Record (game version) is having time of her life! She made new friends, she went to the beach with her friends, slumber party with her friends, but most importantly
(Spoiler from the game and maybe anime too)
She save Madoka!!!!!!!!!
@mahoushoujo maisoon And it will go well as long the gacha lasts.
@mahoushoujo As we are getting a new Madoka Magica movie, clearly there is still more pain for the poor girls ahead.
@@thomasallen9974 really??? When???
@@isolatedanonymous1979 there's a teaser for it but I dunno about a release date.. maybe next year? I hope so!
It may be a spoiler for the game, but...
not exactly for the anime.
The real drama of the new movie is going to be whether Homura can accept the very best friend pill.
Best Friends!
"I love you Homura... as a friend"
Then we'll see villain Homura
@@TheDoomerDen True Demon Homura *UNLOCKED*
@@albertoluis1544 (This is my fanfiction don’t take this seriously)
Cucked Kyubey: Oh boy…
Other Incubators completely independent from Kyubey’s hive mind who’s power base in on the other side of the universe: This gon be good! It is confirmed! Kyubey’s weakened! No detached and powerful demon similar to Kyubey in will stop us now!
A few fun notes that contribute to the video:
- The official name of Madoka's "god" form is "Ultimate Madoka", as it's the name given to all merchandise of the form. Likewise, Homura's special form is unsurprisingly called "Akuma (Devil) Homura".
- Your specific language that Ultimate Madoka is "close to" what would be called a "god" matches my own interpretation. She is called a "kami" only by Kyubey. In Japan, the "kami" are essentially forces of nature personified. Madoka not only wishes to erase all witches, but very smartly adds "by my own hands" into her wish to give herself more control over the outcome of her wish. Thus, she becomes the Law of Cycles, a force of nature, itself. That is why Kyubey calls her a "kami", citing her role as a "force of nature" in his own words. Madoka herself would not thus be all-powerful, as her only powers are fighting/erasing witches and cleansing soul gems.
- "Magical girl heaven": It'd be more accurate to call it the inside of Madoka's soul gem. Much like how Homura could invite people into her soul gem barrier in Rebellion, Madoka is doing the same here by inviting magical girls, with all their newfound hope and extracted despair, to stay with her. While this was explicitely confirmed in Rebellion, it was also the most popular interpretaion of the original series' ending among fans due to the context of that ending when Kyubey mentions Madoka's soul gem is "also carrying enough despair to end a universe". Meaning she doesn't just get rid of witches, but rather carries everything with her.
- When Homura calls herself "evil", ink blots from the Rorschach test appear on the screen. For anyone unfamiliar, this is an outdated pseudoscientific psychological test intended to gauge someone's thought processes by showing them random ink blots and asking them what shape the blots look like. In this case, it's a frankly explicit suggestion that when Homura calls herself "evil", she's leaving the interpretation of her actions up to us, the audience. Urobuchi has stated many times (including in the brochure for theater goers to the film, written before any public reaction) that he values seeing different interpretations of his works and that even inaccurate interpretations are still valid. He probably wasn't the one who put the ink blots into the scene, but the way Homura says the line in Japanese very much invited Simbo's hand to make the visual ambiguity much more... blatant.
- Homura's wish was to protect Madoka. While it's vaguely suggested that karmic destiny plays a role in whether a wish is truly granted, Homura grew exponentially within her soul gem and became extremely powerful as a result. Powerful enough to rip the old Madoka from Ultimate Madoka herself. That itty bit of Madoka's power she stole probably helped her even the odds. In a way, now that she is powerful enough to stand against Ultimate Madoka, that also makes her powerful enough to grant her own wish again: to protect the Madoka she once knew.
I'm surprised you didn't take Homura's self hate into account when she proclaims herself the devil. She's once again attributing all fault to herself. She's created a world where the one she cares about most can be safe and live a normal life, and she hates herself for it. Some might criticise her for her obsession with Madoka, but the story clearly spells out that she had to become obsessed. If she had let go of that obsession, she would have dropped into despair and become a witch before the story was complete. She voluntarily twisted herself into a monstrous self hating form over and over again because she had no choice. She created Godoka (guess I'm using that now). She fought and sacrificed and never took from others. She deserves to be selfish in the end. And even her most selfish dream is one where the people around her get to be happy.
Homura did nothing wrong.
People will attack Homura actions in Rebellion as if they wouldn't do the exact same after all the trauma she's been through
She's made to be the most human of all the characters and I love it so fucking much
I don't think people 'attack' Homura's actions in Rebellion because they dislike her. I, at least, don't. She is indeed the most human character, and I love her more than so fucking much. But what she did was wrong. It's quite possible to be deeply human, to do things I might have done if I had had the same amount of trauma, to be worthy of love... and still do wrong things that hurt one's best friend. (Ask Sayaka -- she also hurt her best friend...).
Homura is worthy of love. And what she did was wrong, and hurt Madoka rather than saving her. These two things can be both true. That's what makes Homura so tragic. Beyond all the suffering she had to put up with... she still did the wrong thing, and for the most human reason of all: love.
@@Asehpe There is nothing wrong about Homura's actions. And she did save Madoka. Madoka now lives a happy, normal live with her friends and loved ones while her desire to save all magical girls has been fulfilled by Homura changing the law of cycles. If you watched the video (and Rebellion), you will note that the incubators now receive all the curses of mankind in Madoka's stead (which is perfect since incubators don't have any emotions like Madoka does in the first place). I'm tired of having to explain this to people over and over again. My apologies in advance for any signs of annoyance in my comment.
@@Asehpe we need to remember she was in her witch form so she did wrong things because she couldn't be logical
@@gaarafan14thedarkknight63 Madoka is living homuras version of normal life and nothing what madoka actually wanted so yes she was wrong and that's OK just because you like the character doesn't mean your bias of her actions is correct
@@21mickkick Says the person who projects their viewpoint of Madoka’s life as “Homura’s version” of a normal life. If you actually paid attention you would have noticed that Madoka was never happy as a goddess. She became the law of Cycles out of necessity, not because she liked/wanted to become a goddess. Who would? But she did it anyway, because there was no other way to save magical girls and Homura did manage to find a way. Now the incubators absorb humanity’s curses in Madoka’s stead and the law of cycles is still functioning perfectly well despite Madoka being human now.
Also, after Madoka became a goddess she said that she was able to see everything that Homura has done for her in the past and what she will do in the future. Meaning that, in essence, Madoka knew that Homura would become the devil and steal her godhood away from her yet she didn’t protest. She was okay with it.
If even Madoka herself thinks that Homura’s actions aren’t wrong, who are you to say I am biased? You’re just stuck in this simplistic tunnel vision that Homura is a villain lmao. If you still cling onto such narrow reasoning, then you clearly have not understood Madoka Magica itself. The only one who is biased here is you. You’re just too blind to see that.
shes only 14-15
even after all these 11 years of looping she hasnt matured one bit as trauma doesn't make a person a better one, it just stops them from their growth
'Fun' fact from the extended canon: The main timeline from the series was apparently Homura's 100th timeline, though she lost count in the mid fourties.
Also edit: Someone doing something for reasons related to their own mental state such as guilt doesn't mean that what she has done was moral, you can commit immoral acts fueled by grief... I still think Homura is (for the most part) a very moral person, or at least tries to be. I just felt the need to argue the fake out ending there, because the conclusion might be right, but the reasoning... wasn't.
This is quite literally 'The hero will sacrifice you to save the universe, but the villain will sacrifice the world to save you', where the you in this case is the hero herself Madoka
To be FAIR, asking Kyubey for the "terms & services" wouldn't work. In Magia Record, when they asked Kyubey for information about the contract, Kyubey was VERY dodgy about the subject. They always answer it in the most convoluted way as to avoid letting them know that Witches are Magical girls.
PS: i know that was just a joke at the end of the video, i just wanna mention that someone DID try asking question to Kyubey but they never give em a straight answer.
I think it's safe to say that Homura has never had her true wish granted in the series. Because her wish was to protect Madoka, that wish proved to be false whenever she fails each timeline as she failed to "protect". All wishes from Sayaka, Mami, Kyouka, and even Madoka, have been beneficiary. And while you can say Homura's wish to return back to the original time has been granted, I think because she turns back time over and over again, that her becoming a witch has at least delayed *a lot* (though you could argue that all the other characters never had their "true wishes" granted).
This is why she never became a witch until Rebellion. I think that's what think is tragic about Homura.
i agree and also figure that is why homura is unsatisfied even with her own universe she makes at the end of rebellion. because she basically knows that since madoka made her wish and became godoka she will never 100% be able to save her, she has to make essentially a doll of the madoka she loves in the new world to play with cause she will always be the law of cycles.
same with the other characters in all honesty. she makes little happy scenarios for them in the new world but for example sayaka remembers herself as sort of godoka's underling. and the happy scenarios she makes for all the characters is a distraction from the fact deep down homura knows due to their nature as people they have always been a problem and this happiness will only distract them from inevitably becoming a problem for her again.
When I first watched this movie I was cheering for Humura to win and for her friends to fail in saving her, later on when she broke the law I was ecstatic.
When I first watched the original anime I was happy with the ending because Madoka was able to rise up as the savior the world needed, but rebellion clearly showed that nothing of important had truly changed. Magical girls still needs to fight and die when they are overwhelmed by despair and worse still the incubators would eventually gain control of Madoka. Because think about it, there is nothing stopping them from simply trying again and again until they eventually succeeds.
In the original series we are told that the incubators do everything that they do because they need to do it for the sake of the universe but at the same time they are not shown to always be trustworthy or reliable. For example if all of existence really needed their actions then why is any of them still alive at this point? After all Madoka prevented witches not only in the present and the future but also in the PAST.
When I first watched the movie I saw her actions as something that she needed to do not just for the sake of Madoka but also in order to stop the ever increasing number of deaths the incubators had caused since the very beginning of human history. I sympathize with her character and while she did indeed go against Madokas wishes, it can also be said that when Madoka first made her wish she still was very much immature and did not fully understand the implications her wish would cost.
I saw Homuras action as the natural conclusion as to what needed to be done for the sake of her friend and for all of humanity regardless of her or Madokas mental state and desires. After all if the incubators were to succeed it would effectively cancel out Madokas wish and then she would not be able to help anyone, not even herself.
Later as I have watched others opinion regarding these turns of events I have given more thought regarding the characters own opinions, desires and state of mind. And while my core beliefs is still the same I would at most call Homuras actions as "neutral" or as an "necessary evil". I do not believe that Homura is a bad person: she is simply human, with all the flaws that comes with all of us.
Hopefully there will be a good conclusion for all the characters in this story in the 4'th movie and that they find a better and more permanent solution to the issue shown so far, because Homura did not look all that great in the end of the 3'rd one.
Yes exactly this, and also I just fully believe that Madoka wanted both the wish and to be with Homura. She literally knows all the future timelines, she accepts them and even wants it, otherwise she wouldn't let Homura remember. Additionally in rebellion it should be obvious that she wants to escape her fate as a concept. Homura didn't disrespect her wish, she left it but also spared Madoka from the consequences of it.
She was a pawn on a game that was bigger than her. You can't blame pawns for dancing to a rhythm that they never knew was possible, or for breaking the song altogether.
Very well put
And that is why I love her.
This comment is perfect
@@teddysyurifantasy3812 Thank you~
Excellent analysis imo. I love homura even more after this since you opened my eyes to the duality of turmoil she faced. On another note though, since your voice is natural not that clear, some clips took me by surprise in terms of volume. It's just a constructive criticism though nothing serious
Very sorry! I'll admit audio editing is something I'm still trying my best to fine tune video to video to try to find the best audio levels to work with.
@@TheDoomerDen you're still starting so it will improve. Best regards to your channel. Sorry i took too long since tests
@@TheDoomerDenmaybe add subtitles/captions?
Thank you!! Well I didn't really get why people didn't like Homura in Rebellion I actually liked her, the movie and thought it was good.
I think a lot of dislike came from first impression misinterpretation, and the concern that Rebellion *was* the finale
Same. A lot of people say that the whole film is out of character for her but I didn't find it so at all??
@@monochromedream-eatingbaku 👍
I don’t mind the consequences of Homura’s actions but the main problem is that Madoka still remembers that she has to save others. Madoka will never be truly happy in Homura’s creation. The best case scenario for me is that Homura and Madoka love and care about themselves enough to not sacrifice their own well-being for others.
@@soc7967 👍
I’ve always liked Homura as a character and funnily enough Rebellion just made me relate to her even more! I was also a socially anxious kid with a heart condition so I know how it feels to attach yourself so strongly to anyone who actually bothers to give you the time of day. But I also have Madoka’s desire to make others happy (even if you have to expend yourself to do it because haha lack of self-worth go brr). I know I would be heartbroken if someone I cared about was going to sacrifice their health/happiness for any reason…
I also related to her, I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't.
Homura is honestly one of my favorite anti-hero’s. I completely agree with your analysis, Homura did nothing wrong!
I also thing it’s funny no one ever mentions that these characters are CHILDREN, and if anyone is mentally mature enough to understand the gravity of their actions it would be Homura since she’s lived much longer than any of the other girls.
Homura's 22 or 23 years old
experience doesnt matter when u still have the mind and nature a 12 year old does. its not like she aged or matured, she just retained those memories. so imagine dealing with all this trauma, with the brain of a 12 year old. homura is as much a child as the rest are.
@@automatic5 Brings up an interesting question on what it means to mature. Think I differ with you a good deal. A large part of maturing is learning. It’s fully possible for adults to “not mature” mentally and just be grown up children.
If the memories were just forcibly introduced to Homura, I’d agree with your final take. But as she actually lived through them she should have a perspective of one who has lived that long. It won’t be the same as someone with a wider range of experiences, but it will be that of one who has had a great deal of time to work things out.
@@automatic5 She's 14 or 15, they're in 8th or 9th grade.
@@fanofultimatemadoka4 Not when she keeps rewinding time a month.
I think Sayaka tells Homura the witch isn’t that bad because Sayaka knows Homura is the witch and doesn’t want Homura to self-destruct.
Author said the amount of times Homura time looped was nearing 100
this puts me in the mind of the video "Homura was never a good person." By Pawndidater. Both you and the creator of that video bring up very similar points, you jusy give more credit to Homura. I personally loved how Rebellion ended my first watch because as I realized something: Homura, while she is definitely a protagonist isnt a good person. She removes Madoka's agency seeing her wish as a mistake and clinging onto her vision of Madoka, the one who is simply happy and blissfully ignorant. And she was so convinced of her righteousness she completely rewrote the laws of reality.
Homura did everything wrong, but that makes her the most compelling of them all.
I mentioned it elsewhere but she reminds me of the elktaur from centaurworld. To try and not spoil much, a self hating elktaur falls in love with a human princess who loved centaurworld. The princess and him have a few good exchanges but before things could progress he retreats believing she would never love him. He makes a choice that leads to him deceiving the princess and mass death on humans and centaurs. She chooses what she thinks is the best option to protect both worlds from him, but he chooses to continue the war in order to find her.
Personally, I'm going to go with " yes, she did ". I don't think she's evil, but I do think she's wrong.
Fair enough! These are just for fun
@@TheDoomerDen And they are.
I disagree with your conclusion but at the end of the day this series is meant to be a thought experiment so i can respect it.
@@TheDoomerDen Literary analysis is, in an important sense, 'just for fun.' We have deep emotional reactions to fiction, and we want to explain it. Why did that character impress me so much? After all, it's "just" something some author came up with, right? Why all the impact?... THAT's the part that is, I think, more important. I've thought more than once that the reactions the viewers have to the show -- in this case, to Homura and her actions -- are more interesting than the show itself, or than Homura herself.
Madoka: "You shouldn't go off by yourself, Homura."
Homura: ... you can't tell me what to do. *goes off by herself*
This analysis is so good, it made me actually tear just thinking of how much pain Homura was in. Also thanks for adding these comedy bits.
Glad you enjoyed it! I had to include the comedy bits just so it didn't feel too bleak on my end haha
And just add to this the deeper pain of the possibility, which Homura is now dimly aware, that she might indeed have done everything wrong... so that all the pain, all the suffering, even right now, may have been... wrong. Ah. If she ever fully realizes this, then her pain will truly be infinite...
I don’t mind the consequences of Homura’s actions but the main problem is that Madoka still remembers that she has to save others. Madoka will never be truly happy in Homura’s creation. The best case scenario for me is that Homura and Madoka love and care about themselves enough to not sacrifice their own well-being for others.
"Its an anime with 14-15 year olds, how comple-" "*goddamit*"
Many guys have been missing that selfishness in itself isn't a good or bad thing, the excess of it is what make it bad.
And the instant Homura's selfishness became toxic is when her low self esteem made her not to see value in her own happiness and that the only one who can put value to it is Madoka's own happiness, and that made her lost sight of Madoka's will on not wanting happiness for herself while there are other people suffering around.
Aside from the valid points you make, there's another extremely important piece of information most people who critique Homura for her actions in Rebellion conveniently forget.
Madoka's wish and agency would have been violated anyway if Homura hadn't intervened. After all the incubators had the insidious plan to lock God!Madoka in a special prison so that they could bring back their old order. Shit was going to go down either way if Homura did nothing - only the outcome would be much much more worse.
In light of that is what Homura did in Rebellion really that bad? She quite literally is the severely less evil than what the incubators wanted to do. She largely kept the original plan that Madoka wanted intact, brought back people so they could experience happiness too, and, as far as we know so far, permanently defeated the Kyubey. That's a pretty good world Homura created.
So when people critique Homura for what she did in Rebellion they are essentially siding with Kyubey and I would hesitate ever being on the same side of that creature.
I never understood how all these girls didn't ask questions about the consequences of becoming a magical girl. Like, tremendous power out of nowhere and a wish??? Nothing bad can come from that! I like to think that even as a middle schooler, I would have been suspicious of a cat-thing asking to make a contract in exchange for power. I like to think I would have asked about the terms and conditions. But, who knows. I might have been just as naive.
Also, Homura is definitely on the "did nothing wrong" category.
It is heavily implied that Incubators mostly go after girls that are in a bad situation, already tethering on the edge of despair, probably so that they make a snap decision or offering their wish as a chance to save themselves and others. The attention put on Madoka and her friends is probably more the exception than the rule.
@@SEELE-ONE yeah I was actually thinking about that today and was thinking about amending my comment. that kind of state of mind really affects your decision making
@@SEELE-ONE And even then they really only made wishes when they were in a very vulnerable state of mind. Sayaka made a wish when she saw how much pain her friend was in for not being able to use his arm, Madoka only made a wish when she absolutely had to save everyone (though it's unclear why she became one in the other timelines), and Homura only made a wish after seeing Madoka die.
In the Magia Record side story game, which is canon and takes place during, and is actually caused by, one of the time loops that Homura experienced, it's shown that girls have actually asked Kyuubey questions but it always answers in ways meant to hide the truth because it ultimately does know that most girls wouldn't agree to a wish being granted if they knew fully, despite him claiming to not understand and not be lying to them.
Excellent video! And I completely agree with your points- Rebellion is one of those movies that needs watching more than once. The first time I watched it I absolutely loathed it. The second time I understood it a lot more, and now I'd argue it's an absolute masterwork of a film.
It's also worth noting that, with almost 9 years of silence on whether it was the end of the series or not, the possibility of it being the definitive end of the timeline wasn't merely unsatisfying or annoying, it was outright soul-destroying. Now that we know there's going to be another film, the blow is a lot softer (though still considerable). Because whilst it is a masterfully crafted film, had it been intended as the final conclusion to Puella Magi Madoka Magica, no amount of beautiful scoring, incredible animation and brilliant writing would have stopped it from being fundamentally *evil.*
Regarding Homura's timetravel shenanigans, if you look on the rather excellent Madoka Magica wiki, someone determined that Homura has been reliving the same month for over a decade; she's effectively a thirty-year-old woman in a middle schooler's body, crippled with survivor's guilt and PTSD from having tried and failed to save her best friend over and over and over again. It really puts her mental state in perspective- she's completely and utterly broken from enduring emotional hardship that is literally beyond mortal comprehension. The fact she even managed to get to the point she did is astounding. Poor, poor Homu-Homu.
(Speaking of the wiki, they also managed to deduce via mathematics that if an Incubator starts the Witch process on a planet, it WILL eventually reach a point where Witches form faster than Magical Girls can be made to stop them, leading to the extinction of the host species as these otherwise-invulnerable predators multiply and butcher the resident population. The Incubators are essentially murdering entire species to extend the life of a universe that will have nobody left to live in it.)
Also, goddamnit that scene where Homura mercy-kills Madoka makes me cry every single time. The strangled wail of grief and despair she gives is chilling.
I'd agree. I think partly why Rebellion was disliked too was it did feel like a grim end, knowing there is a resolution I'm sure helps. I'm really glad you enjoyed this, thanks for watching!
@@TheDoomerDen I think Rebellion is one of the greatest movies I've ever watched (and I, too, was initially angry at it) because of the way it explores the themes of selfless and selfish love (assuming that love could ever be of only one kind...). And Homura is one of the greatest characters ever -- judging precisely by the often diametrically opposed opinions she inspires in the fans. Oh, the more electronic ink we spend discussing whether or not Homura did something (everything?) wrong, the more I see what a compelling and profoundly human character she is, despite all her problems.
One other element of Homura's wish is that the world is better for everyone else too, not just Madoka. At least on a surface level. Because the Law of Cycles is still functioning without the human Madoka so magical girls are still saved from becoming witches. Plus Sayaka is alive and gets to be with her friends again and even Mami has a strong friend now with Bebe. And she is keeping Kyubey on a tight leash so he won't mess with things again.
Now it's implied that Homura's world isn't stable and may fall apart. But at least with what we are presented in Rebellion, there's no question to me that Homura is more right than she is wrong.
Honestly rewatching the series, Homura’s actions felt completely in character when I saw them play out. She was never completely selfless, but a lot of her selflessness came from the fact Madoka was selfless, and would be hurting if she saw others hurting.
What Homucifer did was completely in character and for the greater good. It was a necessary evil. Something that Godoka's mom explicitly suggests when talking to her about doing something bad for a good purpose. Even if the Incubators were going to leave and stop messing with the immense power of human emotions, do you honestly think there aren't going to be other dark forces trying to capture and use Godoka and humanity as a whole? Homucifer is rightfully tired from constantly saving Godoka when she's in grave danger. Especially when it's literally from herself at times. Godoka can now live a relatively normal life while someone with a more cynical and realistic outlook on life like Homucifer can do what needs to be done.
Ultimately I think to love someone means to love their agency. If you want to take away their choice to sacrifice themselves, that's a part of them you're trying to change. I call that ultimately selfish - but that's still not necessarily the same thing as "wrong."
I always got confused because the movie seemed perfectly fitting to me when I first watched it. I was like "If Kyubey doesn't get Madoka through Homura they're not gonna give up, so of course she'd rip her apart." Like it never seemed out of place to me XD
Great video, although I know Homura did nothing wrong is a meme at this point, but I still want to give my two cents on what I think her main mistakes were mistakes.
1. Telling Kyubei about Madoka, just like you said in the video. Pretty self explanatory. There was no need for that and if that didn't happen then there would be no Rebellion and no inevitability of Incubators getting their hands on Madoka and bringing back the witch system.
2. Her hypocricy. As we saw, the stronger and more confident Homura became, the meeker and less confident Madoka became. She basically made Madoka to be like Homura's past self whom she hated. Both hated being the protected and wanted to protect those they love. I feel like Homura questioned Madoka's actions of self sacrifice without realizing she would've done the exact same thing for Madoka.
3. Her actions. I made up a plan on how I think Homura could've handled things better in the main series. So here it is.
Firstly, tell Madoka the whole truth. Like you said in the video, Madoka has been the only person who actually listened to her and trusted her, so I don't get why she has been so vague or secretive to her on later timelines. And tell the others too. The two reasons that we've been shown that this didn't work is Mami's overeaction and Sayaka not believing her. To that I say, just don't tell Mami at all, disclose it only to Sayaka and Madoka (and Kyoko if she's around). Regarding Sayaka, just tell her to ask Kyubey himself, since in the anime the little shit was so smug with his "I would've told you if you had asked." Then boom, Madoka and Sayaka knowing the truth won't become magical girls and Homura teams up with Mami or Kyoko (or both) and has at least a much higher chance to beat Walpurgisnacht. The end.
Now as it's been confirmed that the number of times Homura went back in time was close to a hundred we could assume that she tried it and it didn't work out. I'm just frustrated and it wasn't shown. As the anime showed us, it seemed like Homura tried telling them the truth once, it backfired and she never did it again.
i feel like with how messed up her memories were she wasnt able to remember how bad telling kyubei would be or what she is saying is true or not
You pointed out yourself that Madoka would sacrifice herself for Homura, which is exactly why Homura can not tell Madoka the truth. In the dream timeline right at the start of the anime, Kyubey used the hopelessness of Homura's own struggle to manipulate Madoka into making a wish to save Homura. It goes to reason that this kind of development has came up multiple times, which is why Homura tries to tell Madoka as little as possible while also keeping her distance to avoid having Madoka being so willing to help her.
Convincing Sayaka is easier said than done due to the sheer incompatibility between Homura and Sayaka's personalities. And with Mami still in the picture, Sayaka is far more likely to believe Mami senpai than that obviously evil transfer student. AND even if all goes well as planned, Sayaka is still doomed when Kyousuke gets stolen by Hitomi, so she'll be no help to Homura at all!
Even if you don't plan to tell Mami, the fact that you're telling everyone around her means she still has a pretty good chance of finding out anyway. Mami finding out is simply too dangerous. The one time we see Mami find out the truth, Kyoko was insta-killed and Homura almost died with no reset... Homura can not risk Mami ever finding out.
@@Akemi-Homura- I've seen that as Homura being too confident, and as part of the process of her healing from her Madoka-obsession at the end of the TV series. She thought there was nothing anyone could do to change the nature of reality itself; she thought all the past was now just forever past, and one of the aspects of moving on for her was being able to talk about said past as, well, past. And Kyūbē seemed to agree with her: he was all, "there's no way anyone could ever prove what you described ever happened at all" to her, which I'm sure she liked hearing.
Unfortunately, however, the Incubators did think of a way to rekindle her traumas...
@@903IDFOLEY id like to see more timelines. It is dangerous telling Mami but she doesn’t try to kill everyone after hearing the truth in every timeline which can be seen in the different story manga. There are other factors that contribute to mami’s spiral
The better choice is to make madoka to make a wish for her to save the girls but also have her friends help her and whoever else she wants as well like her future husband or children and to create a heaven for said girls or boys. I mean they just had to make the wish complex not to not wish but to make it complex. Problem solve.
To be fair to the terms of contract thing, Kyuubey does specifically omit that part because it knows that information would cause the girls to not want to become magical girls. Not specifically lying, just not telling the whole truth.
Also I really enjoyed your take on how Homura isn't a bad character, bad as in evil and bad as in poorly written. I actually really enjoyed Rebellion, but maybe I saw the more tragic angle earlier on. Always happy to see people really dig into Madoka Magica!
yeah kyuubey doesn't experience emotion but knows that humans feel it and would get upset if he told them everything. pretty sure in the series he even talks to madoka and expresses something like "you humans get so upset over people dying or your soul not being in your body anymore i don't get it that's why i don't tell you those things before you make a contract."
it's called lying by omission
Homura may not have started as obsessed with Madoka, it may just be a symptom of being stuck in a infinite time loop. With the goal of the time loop being to protect Madoka, I can see how that could warp into obsession that reads as love to the obsesser , with a sort of "Only Madoka matters" mindset.
I look forward to your other videos as well as the "Did nothing wrong" staple! To me, Homura absolutely did everything I would do if i loved someone that much as well.
Thank you so much! It's exciting to get to do more of these, they're certainly work, but a lot of fun.
I agree. This is the first character in the "Did Nothing Wrong" series that i can confidently say actually did nothing wrong.
This was a great explanation honestly, I didn't even realize what had said in Rebellion truly stabbed Homura in the heart, explains her expression at the time, but now it makes perfect sense.
I think your analysis (which is quite well-reasoned, by the way) misses an important point. The question is not simply if Homura's wish shows internal complexity (of course it does), or whether her single goal is to protect Madoka (of course it is) -- but whether or not her actions were wrong, i.e. whether they produced happiness for Madoka. (I'm even leaving aside the question of whether or not Homura's choice was 'better' for the universe as a whole, not because it is not an interesting question, but because it is independent from this central question. If what Homura wanted was Madoka's happiness... did she succeed?)
I think the answer is: No. Homura did NOT succeed, Madoka is NOT happy, and Homura is dimly aware of what she did wrong -- which creates her inner turmoil.
Let me elaborate.
After so many loops (from 50 to 100, says word of God) trying to protect Madoka and failing, it is clear that Homura's love for Madoka would solidify into an obsession, and a common feature of obsessions is oversimplification. Since Madoka ended up choosing to become a Magical Girl to alleviate the burden of all other Magical Girls with her redemptive powers, Homura's obsession went unfulfilled. This must have been hard for Homura to accept -- and it took Godoka that entire scene to make Homura turn towards a non-Madoka-centered life, which she started to do at the end of the TV series. She was still fighting because of Madoka -- but she was no longe fighting to save Madoka. Homura had began to heal from her obsession, and to move on to a life that included herself and her own agency as a goal, and not just as a means to save Madoka. In other words, Homura had started to heal from the trauma of so many loops. It was just a beginning -- baby steps -- but it was going in the right direction.
And then came the incubators, acting upon Homura's claims about the 'previous timelines' and how things had been different. They build an isolation field to create conditions under which Homura could still turn into a witch; and they set up a trap for Madoka, so as to be able to study her and perhaps use her to accumulate more anti-entropic energy. But Madoka fools their plans, destroys the isolation field, and is about to rescue Homura... thus providing everybody with a happy ending.
But Homura... had devolved. Her trauma had come back. Her obsession had taken hold of her. So much so, that she actually listened to a lesser version of Madoka -- without memories of Godoka, and of all the things that led her to her choice in the TV series -- rather than talk to this Godoka who was coming to save her, this Godoka whose opinion she did not ask. (Homura had time-stopping powers, which she could use to stop time and talk to Godoka; and anyway, Godoka was so powerful, she could certainly have allowed Homura to have a free conversation with her about what was or wasn't best for her.)
And this is so believable! This is EXACTLY how obsessed people act. The parent who is obsessed with their children's happiness, to the point of wanting to direct their lives rather than give them input and the right to choose (a theme in Dead Poets' Society) -- isn't that a well-known trope? Homura had the same moment of arrogance: she decided that she, Homura, was going to be the final arbiter of what happiness was for Madoka, even if this meant denying Madoka the right to define it by herself -- just like overprotective parents. By doing this, she denied Madoka's agency, and basically made of her (or what she took from Godoka) a doll in a gilded cage.
Which is why, to me, the question is not whether or not Homura's motives were pure -- they obviously were. The question is whether or not they led her to do the right thing -- which they did not. Yes, it is possible to do the wrong thing for the right reasons (again, think about overprotective parents). Yes, it is possible to hurt your beloved because you love them. Love is such an emotion that, in the pursuit of happiness for the beloved, it can, if untempered by reason, lead to a denial of the beloved's rights to make decisions that the lover does not approve.
THAT is what Homura did wrong. Not corrupting herself into a devil, which she obviously is not; but confusing Madoka's happiness with her, Homura's, view of Madoka's happiness, by allowing herself to listen to a lesser version of Madoka because said version agreed with Homura's obsession.
To stress this point a little more, consider an alternate timeline, in which Madoka did to Homura what Homura did to Madoka in Rebellion -- i.e., a timeline in which Madoka created a pocket universe for Homura, complete with a lesser version of herself for Homura to protect and be happy with, and then kept Homura's consciousness imprisoned in this pocket universe (the way the Incubators did with her in the isolation field). As long as Homura didn't know that Godoka continued to exist as before outside that pocket universe, Homura would be 'happy', right? So Godoka did nothing wrong?
I think you will agree that Godoka would be wrong if she did that -- because she would have frustrated the meaning of Homura's wish even more by giving her a lesser version of herself to protect. Homura wanted to protect HER -- Madoka, now Godoka -- not a lesser version! She, Homura, would never agree with that if Godoka asked her before creating this pocket universe for her! The resulting 'happiness' for Homura would be false -- and if Homura ever became aware of what Godoka had done, she'd fight against it and try to escape that pocket universe.
Likewise with the gilded cage Homura built for Madoka.
Homura is not wrong 'because she decided to go against a God.' Homura is wrong because, in denying her very best friend the right to define her own happiness in her own terms, terms of her own choosing, she actually did NOT protect Madoka but subjected her to a deeper (let's call it philosophical, existential) kind of suffering that is worse than what she saved her from. Which is why we see that, when Madoka almost becomes aware of things -- her Godoka nature comes back to her -- Homura has to fight that. 'No Madoka, you can never grow; you have to remain a little child, in this world, because nobody is happier than a child, and since I want happiness for you, I'll keep you here as a child. Forever!'
So in the end, Homura betrayed her own wish. She settled for something less than happiness for Madoka. She hurt her friend, to prevent her from being hurt. Precisely the kind of self-contradiction that obsession, overprotectiveness, and... love (especially when combined with trauma) are so capable of causing.
And that is what Homura did wrong: the betrayal of her own wish. The damage to the very friend she had sworn to protect. And she is dimly aware of that. Oh God, if some day she becomes fully aware of what she did... she might actually go crazy. Homura is one of the best tragically flawed characters I've ever encountered in fiction, and I have a lot of respect for her arc in this show -- even though this means that what she did was, indeed... all wrong.
@mahoushoujo maisoon I don't think PMMM is clear on that. She might be or not be outside of time. If she isn't, Homura could stop time for them to have a conversation. If she is, she could take Homura outside of time to have a conversation. Either way... Homura could have asked first. But she didn't, because... She thought she knew what Madoka would say, and she wanted to do what she did regardless of Madoka's thoughts.
Your comment is gold. I had the exact same thoughts about Homura. Sure, she loves Madoka, but she's also her obssesion.
yeah. this was a nice video but you've made a thesis out of my opinion/put it into words.
While a lot of that is true, if you see the Concept Trailer it seems Madoka really was unhappy as a God from the dialogue.
Exactly! Thank you for writing this and putting my jumbled thoughts/feelings in order!
Good video essay! It's pretty rare to listen to people mentioning that there is a possibility that Madoka had *already knew* what would happen in Rebellion timeline. There's also some theory that Madoka didn't really fret on that Rebellion possibility because she wanted Homura to become her partner in eternity, so she won't be so lonely in her godly duty.
Speaking of being lonely, you may check on the anime's 1st ending song, "Mata Ashita" (See you tomorrow). After finished the anime, I realized that cute song has a different context, about Madoka being lonely as a goddess.
It is an intriguing idea, but it has a couple of potential problems. After all, if the Incubator's isolation field was truly capable of hiding things from Godoka/Madokami (something that Rebellion does not make clear, so I don't know exactly what to think here), then the whole sequence of events inside of it (including Homura's betrayal) could be something that Godoka/Madokami could not see. She probably could see that the Incubators would create such a field, and trap Homura inside of it; but what would happen inside, she might actually have no access to. (Let's hope the next movie makes this clearer.)
Anyway, even if Godoka/Madokami was aware of what Homura might do... maybe she did not think that she should take away Homura's freedom of choice. Maybe she thought her friend had to go through this -- actually harm her, Madoka -- to understand the deeper meaning of her own wish. Maybe the only way to cure Homura of her obsession is to let Homura play it out, and be dismayed to eventually realize she hurt Madoka rather than protecting her. That would be very much in character for Madoka, wouldn't it? :-)
But I don't really know. It's all up to Urobuchi now, I guess...
I am just happy this exists, I say the Phos analysis (loved it btw) and scrolled down to see the community post with Homura and Goofy in it, so I knew this was coming.
Madoka Magica is one of my most favorite anime I have seen in my life so far. Probably number 1 honestly, it is constantly good for me, and part of my died when Magia Record NA shut down--
I always believed Homura did nothing wrong, because I just kinda understood where she came from and why she did it, it makes me sad tho that as her reward other than giving them a "better life", she is kinda just alone. The scene in the end of her dancing on a half moon half cliff, felt kinda somber, yet I also felt the "She finally won" moment.
Thank you so much! Yeah Madoka is quite possibly in my Top 5 anime series easy, I love everything about it.
I've leaned more towards the "Homura did nothing wrong" side of the spectrum mostly because of that conversation with Kyubey about his plans to try to control Madoka, and also the one with Modoka about how she wouldn't want to be away from her friends and family. I mean if you have a way to save your friend from a real threat, AND let her be with her friends and family (like she said she wanted) why the heck wouldn't you?
And also because the whole "you gotta die the minute you have a breakdown" thing didn't necessarily seem like the best solution to me.
7:50 I read somewhere that Homura spend 10 years in a loop. I think it makes the whole situation even sadder
Personally, I do think Homura isn't in the right, not because I think she's bad or wants to do harm, I understand her actions and I see that from her perspective this is the best solution. But I think the way she takes Madoka's agency away because it's what SHE believes it's best for Madoka is a bit selfish, she loves Madoka too much to let her sacrifice herself and will do anything, she knows that if Madoka was able to remember who she is she wouldn't want this, but she rejects that because she thinks Madoka is unhappy. I also think that when Madoka told her she would never want to be alone it wasn't fully her, I think she probably was also influenced by what Homura wanted her to feel like (idk that's more of a hypothesis but like she did mess with her memories so idk).
Like Madoka's entire arc in the anime was about her wanting to do something to save her friends and family while feeling useless and not being able to take a decision, so to me it feels really bad when Homura completely undermines that because of her own perception of what it's best, even if she goes against what Madoka wants.
Homura it's still a great character! Everyone will have a different interpretation of her bc she's quite complex and while I don't completely agree with you I still can see your point!
Edit: also!! I want to add, there's nothing bad with enjoying characters who do bad things, I still really like Homura but it's because of her complexity and humanity rather than because I think she's really selfless and has done nothing wrong (which you can choose to believe too! everyone has their interpretations)
the biggest evil is the director saying that homura ain't gay af towards madoka
A second note: You claim that Homura's moral paradox is "do you allow the ones you love to sacrifice themselves if that's what they want to do, or do you protect them?" (and I would add: "...or do you protect them FROM THEMSELVES?"). I think this is too simple. The real moral complexity here is: what does it mean to "protect" someone you love? We can debate when it is OK or not OK to take power away from someone and make decisions for them (people who are addicted to drugs or alcoholics jump to mind as examples in which it may be OK), and even our laws have situations in which it is OK to take someone else into custody -- people in comas, or with mental illnesses, or senility, etc.
But none of this applies to Madoka. So there is no need to discuss that.
So this question ('what does it mean to protect') now becomes (or entails), at least to me, this: is there anyone who really knows someone else so well, s/he can determine what is best for them better than the person herself? If we're talking about people without mental or physical illnesses, then this is a very loaded question. It seems that, as a society, we've come to accept that (again barring mental illness, children, senility, etc., and to the extent that our social condition gives us enough freedom), we should decide for ourselves what we want our lives to be.
So to me the question is: are there people who should decide what our lives are going to be instead of us? Are these people being good when they make said decisions? Can I claim the right to decide whether or not you should get to do what you want -- because I love you? And if I do this -- if I decide what happiness is to you despite your wishes -- do I really love you?
What IS love?...
To me, these are the questions that Homura poses as a character in Rebellion.
I do agree with you, but to apply all of this to Homura and Madoka's relationship it will become really mess up.
Please put the moral aside, focus more on Homura's purpose, her action may be batshit insane, but that is what necessary
If your dear love one want to sacrifice her/himself to save someone, do you just stand there and move on or you try your very best to stop them take their life away, you willing to let the moral question: is love enough for sb to have the right or you will go out there to protect them
God, in this series *EVERYTHING* just hurts-
Hope the next movie ends happily and doesn't do a full 180 turn or make another character do a 180 turn.
I love Rebellion so much i wasn't even aware it was a controversial movie. Love your analysis, Homura is an amazing character, and also 14yo so let's cut her some slack (but she's evil in her own way and that's what makes her so great imo)
I deeply sympathize with Homura, because I know I would do the exact same thing in her shoes. I don't have romantic feelings for anyone at the moment, but I have a lifelong best friend that I value above anyone and anything else. When you in the video asked the question (paraphrasing) "If keeping your loved one safe means sacrificing all the people they could have saved, would you do it?" my answer was, without hesitation, "yes."
So that's why I will defend Homura my pathetic little meow meow to the ends of the Earth, because I know damn well I would do the exact same shit without a shred of remorse.
I think what's most important here is that kyubey stopped. "Oh but he isn't evil just indifferent" well the opposite of love is indifference, and kyubey is a monster and the enemy. Madoka understood that.
“Her- very best friend.” Uh huh sureeee
You know, Madoka and Homura's relationship really reminds me of Kiana and Mei's from Honkai impact 3. Don't want to spoil anything if people haven't played the game but this four have some interesting paralels.
Oh yes. Thunders over Nageroza was such an memorable chapter.
To me I completely understood Homura's actions and why she did what she did, but taking away Madoka's autonomy in the situation and reducing her sacrifice put me in the "she did wrong" camp. However, your point about Madoka possibly knowing this all along puts this into a different light. It was a plot hole I felt like the writers forgot about, but Madoka very well could've seen this eventuate and wouldn't exactly have a problem with it, because she knows why Homura did it. For now I think I'm still on the note about her doing wrong by trapping Madoka and erasing other people's memories (especially Sayaka who was scared about losing her memory). Thank you for this good video!
very much my oppinion
I've been analyzing this movie for years, and the attention to detail in Rebellion is truly next level.
In episode 12, Madoka says she can see "universes that could have been and those may yet to come."She never indicated that she's certain of what will happen next. You can even tell in her dialogue with Homura during the floaty space scene since she says "Even when you go home, you _might just_ be able to remember me. We just have to believe." "I'm sure if it's small enough, a real miracle just might happen."
Seeing possibilities =/= predicting the future.
What else would she to do? Homura is synonymous with Madoka's salvation, so Madoka's story obviously couldn't end with her just being a god
"If god herself thinks homura did nothing wrong, then did she?" Yes. She did. God is not a perfect being incapable of misgudgement. She has a bias toward Homura since she is her best friend, and being the kind and warm heart that she is wouldn't want to cause her more pain by telling her that everything she did for herself and madoka was wrong. She also never said what Homura did was right, just that she still loved Homura and everything she did for her. That isn't Madoka telling Homura what she did isn't wrong, it's just telling her that she appreciates the intentions she had and all the suffering she went through trying to protect her. It shows Madoka how much Homura loves her.
I know the intent of this video is not actually to prove she did nothing wrong, but I thought I'd answer that question seriously anyway lol
As someone who has thought Homura was an amazing character and identified with her, this feels like like a personal attack for why I liked her so much. This is too deep of a analysis of a saviour complex.
i think that regardless of whether what she did was bad, it would be more unrealistic for her to let go of Madoka after all she has done to protect her already
Yup... I mostly agree with this...
However, it is worth mentioning that Homura was -save for the first few timelines- an *antagonist* to Madoka (as in, she opposes the main character's goals and objectives). Homura became a full-blown villain by the end of Rebellion, as she actively sabotaged Madoka and the entire universe for her own selfish agenda. The redeeming quality most see here is that Homura does this out of "love".
I, however, see this a fallacy, because by Rebellion, whatever it is Homura feels for Madoka, is not "love". It goes beyond toxic, unhealthy or even obsessive: Homura does not see Madoka as a friend or object of her affections, but as a possession. She keeps Madoka "safe" and "well-cared for" and "in a good, controlled environment", like you do to a collectible.
Homura does not want Madoka to be happy on her own chosen terms, for those will bring her pain and loneliness.
What do you do when your loved one's goals no longer align with what your wanted? You let them go so that they find someone that can support them as they need, not force them to change their ideas and goals to better suit you!
She is a tragic villain, a fallen figure and a traitor to her friends and loved one. Homura *did wrong* once she chose herself over Madoka's explicit wishes.
If she did nothing wrong then there would be no continuation. Homura knows that what she did is wrong, but she did it for what she views as her love for Madoka. Is not as simple as she did the good or the bad thing. From Madoka's and the other magical girls POV, she did the bad thing for selfish reasons, for Homura's POV she did the bad thing for a good reason. Of course we as the viewers are supposed to side more with Madoka's side but we have to understand that Homura knows that what she did is wrong.
i saw rebellion in theater in LA, to say that it had a mixed reaction at the end would be a massive understatement. I believe everyone was on board until the last 10 minutes, and honestly i think its a much better ending than the original would have been. I absolutely loved the entire series and rebellion, but it definitely is a refined taste.
I love madoka magica purely because I love tragic sapphics with waaayyy too much baggage... and its so DELICIOUS
I absolutely love madoka magica and it seems to be underrated. Thank you for this video!
Underrated??? I love Madoka, but 2011s spring season is still talked about as the best season of all time due to Madoka and Steins;Gate.
Maybe I'm too old, but Madoka was the talk of the anime world at the time, and the only reason it didn't get even more attention was that Steins;Gate aired at the same time and was very close in popularity.
I hope the fourth movie will be almost entirely focused on Homura and Madoka's relationship with each other. When it comes down to it, the conflict here is between two characters who each have tried to decide what is best for the other without consulting each other or truly attempting to work together first. Both care about the other, but neither is willing to let the other suffer, be unhappy, or potentially suffer a terrible fate to the point where they each keep trying to carry the burden of the world alone. Homura cannot accept a world where Madoka is alone, Madoka will not be able to accept a world where Homura is alone. The only real solution is if they both learn to carry the burden together as equals, somehow, and I hope from the bottom of my heart that the fourth movie will be about this conflict between them.
Homura is my hero. That flashback episode is one of the most badass and satisfying reveals I've ever seen in a TV show.
I particularly love one little part where the others ask her to figure out a way to use her time-stops offensively; she thinks about it for a second, then it just cuts to her stealing a shitload of guns and explosives from a Yakuza hangout. Thug life.
Homura is the best example of a morally grey character in my opinion. They all are, given what theyve gone through. When you remember theyre just children, it makes a lot of sense with all the bad things they do. They simply dont realize or fully think through their actions.
Imagine seeing your best friend die 100+ times, anyone would flip.
Such a well done and thought provoking anime. I want more.
We don’t. CARE.
It goes to show how far someone will go out of their way for love, even if that love has become obsessive
I'd never heard of Madoka Magica until today, from a couple of different Bad Apple music videos, someone else's video condemning Homura, and then this one. I guess I'll have to give it a binge watching now.
I love homura, thanks for your wonderful video
Thank you for watching!
Homura's hope is Madoka, it might looked like obsession but it's actually not, it's just like "There's no point in doing this or that if the thing we want itself isn't there."
To not include the thing we want (even tho we can continue without it) is rendering everything meaningless, that's the thing with Homura. Like when Hero is sacrificed to save the world, but even for human the concept of looking at the happy world without "you" or the "important thing" in it is just devastating. It's empty.
The point is, Homura just want a normal world with Madoka included, not because she want Madoka for herself. well even tho in the story it might be turn into that route, but because Homura then realized that erasing the witch is not eliminating them but instead turning it into something different. means, Madoka sacrifice might be meaningless. So Homura has no choice but to take back Madoka by force even if she has to become a demon. What drives her that far is because Homura cares for Madoka more than anything in the world and wish for her own happiness and not for others.
I’m really thankful you made this it’s an excellent video and analysis of Homura and I think you did a perfect job of examining and understanding her as a person. I was definitely shocked from the ending of Rebellion my first time watching and I know how much discussion Homura has sparkled but after doing a lot of thinking I do really feel for her.
Thinking about it from her perspective a timid young girl who’s struggled with self loathing finally meeting someone who accepts and loves her having to die cause of the actions of a Incubator who makes contracts at the cost of the girls lives is already horrible but then considering her constant attempts and efforts going back in time for over a decade constantly seeing traumatic experiences and ether death or becoming a witch befalling Madoka it made that suffering even more unbearable. Homura went though PTSD and devastating pain beyond mortal comprehension with that in mind it’s no wonder why she became cold distant and seemingly emotionless on the outside at the end of it she’s a troubled tortured soul who just wants to save the person she loves most no matter what it took or ramifications it had on the universe at large. I can definitely understand that Homura’s actions are questionable but after everything she’s been though I can understand why she did it when push came to shove and can emphasize with her.
That’s why I’m really grateful you went over why Homura is really multi faceted and complex I really love her so much and am very thankful for this excellent overview of her definitely admire the great work.
I simply understood Homura grabbing Madoka in That Scene as her having finally getting what she wants after being _repeatedly_ beaten down by life itself. She's like a bullied kid, one who finally got her one small victory.
She's deeply hurt, and needs to see a shrink.
I'm glad there's still madoka magica content being made! I think the concept of the show is very interesting and I really enjoyed your analysis so yeah- great job
Thank you for watching!
@@TheDoomerDen you're welcome! And keep up the good content!
Honestly I love the content of devil's advocate. It helps us deep dive into what truly makes (formerly) good people do horrible things, and develop empathy for the villain. I believe it is really encouraged us to have empathy and put ourselves in the other person's shoes.
Homura's final, selfish decent and realizing she will never truly have Madoka stay with her and not be a God at the same time will always make me love her character. She tries so hard only to fail yet again.
i honestly did not understand madoka magica but thanks to your summarization in this video i now understand what actually happen in the story
20:15 I believe the truth is that kyubey's barrier prevented Madoka from seeing Homura's fate/future. So I don't think she knew what Homura would do. As for the new movie, I'd love to see more interactions bw Homura and other pmmm characters. With Magia record out and a thing, I wonder if they would include that in the new movie. Although I'm sure some ppl would be upset by that.
“What is done out of love always happens beyond good and evil.”
this is a huge trolley train scenario
ur artstyle and sona is so pretty!!!
I once had a friend who hated Rebellion because she believed that it threw the series' running theme of sacrifice out the window, and to be honest that completely baffles me. Rather, the entire final act of the movie from the moment Homura discovers she's a witch onwards is the perfect logical extension of that theme, asking Homura how much she's willing to sacrifice for the sake of protecting Madoka, and the answer is everything. First she tries to sacrifice her life by becoming Homulily, even telling Kyubey "Mami Tomoe and Kyoko Sakura are here, and I'll entrust them with this. This labyrinth will become my grave." And when that fails (mind you, due to the actions of others who are not aware of what Kyubey is planning), she goes even farther, her actions of rewriting the universe and becoming a devil are the one and only way to be utterly sure she can protect Madoka from Kyubey, by becoming something powerful enough that it teaches him to fear. But this in itself is the greatest sacrifice of all, I think, and that's exemplified by the last lines of the movie: "Then I suppose one day, you too will become my enemy. But I don't care, because even then, I'll continue to wish for a world where you can be happy." And what really ties this all together is the final moment before the credits roll, the last gut punch: "They really do look better on you." With this act, as I see it, Homura sacrificed the one thing even greater to her than even her own life: her chance at being happy together with Madoka, and that cost is one she bears nonetheless, even their friendship is a cost she's willing to pay. And I think this interpretation is supported both by the symbolism of giving back the one gift she'd received, and by the post-credits scene, where Homura sits alone on a hill with half of it missing, leaning over the abyss as though in that second half there would be something else, something missing. Another friend of mine noticed that this mirrors both the shot from the Hajimari opening with Madoka and Homura being super gay, and the sequence in Rebellion where Homura has to confront her dread of Madoka slipping through her fingers forever (you know, the t-pose one). This implies that the scene is a visual depiction of Homura's isolation, that the missing half of the hill symbolizes the emptiness in her life without Madoka there, she's literally missing a piece of her world. And yet she endures it. Anything, to protect Madoka.
I think if anyone would argue that Homura’s actions and wishes are selfish because they undo Madokas, you have to make the same argument for Madoka. Madoka makes her final wish knowing how Homura has been fighting to prevent this, knowing her wish was all for Madoka, and she still makes her choice. Even though Homura is actively fighting for every single lost Madoka that asked her to keep fighting, that asked her to stop her.
Homura might be THE perfect example of too much of a good thing goes bad. She loved Madoka SOOO much to the point it LITERALLY corrupted her soul and turned her into the devil.
It’s a twisted yet beautiful form of empowerment through love that I haven’t seen done so well til this point.
Homura is on my "understandably and relatably did something somewhat wrong" list. Great video btw.
I'm still firmly in the "Homura did everything wrong." opinion. The sole fact that she removed Madoka's memories because she knew that if Madoka remembered everything she'd obviously choose to oppose Homura is, not to be dramatic, but low-key abusive. And just because Madoka will or already has forgiven her for it, doesn't make it not wrong.
same
Memory manipulation is an ability given to Homura by Madoka herself, it is the power of her bow, according to Wraith Arc.
I don't even think Homura needs to deliberately take away Madoka's memories though. The fact that Madoka can exist as a normal human being at all is contradictory to having memories of becoming God. How can a human being be a human being if they have memories of having become God? Only a God can have that memory. To give Madoka humanhood necessitates this result. After all, if you look at what Homura says about what she did to Madoka, she pulled the human memories of Madoka down from space-time. This is not "taking away her memories", but splitting her memories and putting them each in a different entity. We should also know that God Madoka is not particularly happy; in fact, none of the human happiness she can ever enjoy for all of eternity, despite still having a human mind (at least as depicted in the media). The loneliness and pain of this is indescribable. Giving the possibility of happiness back to her, is abuse? I just don't think this way.
I'd like to note why Madoka trusts Homura, but Sayaka doesn't. In Episode 3 when Madoka and Mami met Homura, Homura tries to warn Mami about the witch, but Mami didn't listen. Sayaka didn't know that Homura actually tried to warn Mami, so from her perspective, it looks like Homura just waited for Mami to drop dead, so that she can gather the grief seed for herself.
Finally, someone who gives good points about how Homura did not do much wrong. I wouldn't say everything she did was right, but I do not think many people would do things differently.
16:35 homura changed the memories of madoka with the subconcious intent for madoka to fall into her world beliefs. She unknowingly made madoka give her that reassurance.
I loved everything about your analysis of Homura's character. Many videos on youtube disregard the complexity of her character, calling her "selfish" and "obsessed" after Rebellion (which is why I am often reluctant to watch these type of videos as I really love Homura). I am happy to see that others like you have actually understood Rebellion and that you conclude how Homura did nothing wrong. Because she hasn't, and I absolutely love everything about her.
"what's the worst thing that can happen?"
*Literally the worst things happen 1 second later*
Pretty sure gen urobuchi confirmed that homura went through 12 years of looping, so 144 loops.
And by the way, he also confirmed that homuras feelings for madoka are indeed romantic and compared their relationship to anakin and padme from star wars (though I don't know how much I agree with that part)
Madokas feelings are still ambiguous though.
It’s confirmed that she looped “approaching 100” times, but the 12 years you are thinking of comes from the way that each loop is a month and a half long (from around mid March to end of April), so doing that around 100 times equals out to doing the same month for almost 12 years! (as in, 46 days x 95 resets = 4370 days / 365 days in year for around 11.96 years).
No wonder she made some questionable choices, that would send anyone insane 😂
@@lolcandystar101 I mean the fact that it was 12 years is literally confirmed and 12 years are 144 months.
great video!! id also like to remark that in homuras world the law of cycles is still in place even if madoka isnt it anymore, so magical girls are not turning into witches and are just passsing away, and even though madoka is undoubtedly homura's priority, she also gave both mami and kyoko a better life in her world, seeing as mami is not alone because of nagisa and kyoko is going to school with them and wasting food (she threw an apple at the end). even sayaka who was very opposed to all of this cried bc she was so happy to see kyosuke and hitomi again! forever in the homura did nothing wrong squad.
also! i truly believe that madoka still loves homura no matter what, too. in homuras labyrinth madoka told her "whatever happens to you, good or bad, you're still you. and i would never abandon you". ive also always thought that what homura did is kind of like what madokas mom was telling her, about making a mistake for someones sake. in that conversation, madoka asks her mom if the other person would understand that doing it was for their sake, and her mom told her that sometimes they do and sometimes they dont. she said “I told you, it’s not the nicest way to do it. But would you rather give up on her or give her the wrong idea about you?”
The movie is actually coming out on April 2024. The team on Madoka content will begin animating as soon as they release season 3 of Magia Record on April 2022.