ATOMOS NINJA V+: IS IT WORTH IT?
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- A look at the features of the Atomos Ninja V+, and a discussion of if it is worth the cost if you are a Canon R5 user.
====GEAR FEATURED IN THIS VIDEO====
Atomos Ninja V+ (AMAZON): amzn.to/3cmm03A
Atomos Ninja V+ (B&H): www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
Canon R5 (AMAZON): amzn.to/3zVI9QF
Canon R5 (B&H): www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
=== WHAT I SHOOT MY CZcams CHANNEL WITH ===
CANON R5: amzn.to/3fRhRI2
SMALLRIG CAGE FOR R5: amzn.to/3cYUBG0
SMALLRIG NATO TOP HANDLE: amzn.to/2Q4SLug
PANASONIC GH5: amzn.to/3dArbx2
ATOMOS NINJA V: amzn.to/3dIfYL5
CANON 16-35mm/2.8: amzn.to/3wtMV6u
FALCON EYES RX-24TDX: amzn.to/3fNQtL5
APUTURE 120D: amzn.to/2PIboV9
Heads up! This is a completely independent and honest review. My posts may contain affiliate links. If you buy something through one of these links you won't pay a penny more, but I'll get a small commission, which helps to keep this station going. Thanks!
DISCLAIMERS
This video was not paid for by outside persons or manufacturers.
No gear was supplied to me for this video. I purchased this gear to test for myself.
===========
CUSTOM FILMMAKER APPAREL: www.deafdirector.com/shop
==========
If you're interested in contacting Bryan for work please email me at
thedeafdirector@gmail.com
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
0:20 The Ninja V+
1:27 Canon Firmware 1.4.0
1:59 How to record 8K RAW
4:06 SURPRISE #1: 8K Limitations
6:13 SURPRISE #2: 5K RAW/60fps
7:51 SURPRISE #3: No 4K/120fps?!
9:45 A Note on File Sizes
10:20 Is it Worth It?
++++++++++++++++++++
Bryan Redding is an award-winning Cuban American Cinematographer and Director based in Athens, Georgia. He loves being on set and sharing his knowledge. In addition to his love of cinematography, Bryan has complete high range hearing loss which, according to his audiologist, leaves him functionally deaf in certain environments, hence making him the Deaf Director. This has not stopped Bryan from continuing his passion on set and behind the camera, and he uses his experience with his physical condition to propel his unique vision.
The content of this video and my opinions were not reviewed or paid for by any outside persons.
DEAF DIRECTOR gets some funding via your transactions with purchase links with the following affiliate programs:
Amazon Affiliate
B&H Affiliate
SUPPORT THE CHANNEL AND BUY THRU OUR LINKS!
#deafdirector
#ninjav+
#atomos
#atomosninjav+
#r5 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Great review! Super helpful! Thank you!
Awesome! Can you do a video on how properly expose C LOG 3 on the Ninja V? Thank you
Thanks for the great video!
I wish you could pick the focus points on the Atomos touch screen. That would be a game changer
That would be amazing...!
@@DeafDirector U can use your handy and the canon App to have a focus monitor and u focus with the handy
Thanks for the video man!! I just saved some money as I already wasted some for the R5!
Excellent video!
Thank you so much for sharing all this knowledge.
We are in May/2002, almost 8 months after you published this video, do you know if EOS 5R still not able to record 4K 120 fps on Ninja V+ ?
Greetings from Brazil!
Thanks, Andre. Sorry, still no 4K 120fps from the R5 to the NInja V+. Have a great day!
The only issue with me about the Ninja V+ is the price but the new $999 fall sale at B&H photo was too good to pass up for me. That 1/3 off fall sale made the difference even with no 4K120. The 5K60 raw is awesome. I shoot on 8GB SSDs so storage is not factor for me. The 5k60 Prores raw takes a little more time but for what I shoot 4KHQ FF with the Ninja recorder and in camera movie crop mode to 2TB CFe B cards while running and gunning serves me nicely.
599 now...
Great video... Thank you. Ninja V+ is on sale now for 999$ and Ninja V at $549. Would you choose the V+ with that price?
Oh man, thanks for the honest video. I ordered it because of the deal. I'm keeping my order but disappointed. I really wanted the 4k120.
The 8K RAW is awesome, but I was super bummed about the 4K 120, too. That being said, the Ninja V+ will last you for years, so you are essentially future proofing your monitor, so when you eventually upgrade I am sure that your future cameras will be able to fully exploit the V+. Thanks for the comment and have a great day!
Just got the Ninja V Plus the other day & was not impressed by the build quality at all. Ended up returning the pro kit bundle & will just save up my pennies for a dedicated 8k camera from Canon. Hopefully the R1 comes out next year!
Why Canon does not release a firmware update making a 4k RAW recording possible?
I got both the V+ and R5 and so far it’s been worth it clients are seeing a bigger difference in my image quality opposed to the competition I say it’s worth it
There is no doubt the 8K RAW is incredible. I just wish I had some more options with it. I know I'll still probably end up buying the V+ eventually, just to future proof my system. Thanks for the comment and have fun shooting.
Can you share some 8K RAW footage from the NinjaV+?
Are you using a super high-end system to edit 8K Raw footage? Before biting the bullet on a V+ I'm wondering if my 3-year-old Dell with an i7 processor and a mid-range Nvidia video card can handle 8K raw footage.
@@MTaylorUS I doubt it.... I used a 980Ti for a while (since the newer cards wheren't available), with a AMD Ryzen 9 5950X... 8K from the R5 (non RAW) stutters....
With the 3080RTX I can play it normally.... so
But then again, I still use proxy's even with the 4K HQ material. Premiere can handle it, but I found with multiple cams and around 40 minutes of material, it sometimes let's my fans go crazy, so....
@@JePeVePe Buy Apple m1 pro/max and use Final cut Pro, then your problem will be solved.
Love your reviews! 💕 For me it’s not worth it at this time and am getting the non plus version of the Ninja v. I figure that maybe I could if needed just covert 4K to 8k using Topaz Laps Video Enhance AI Powerful Video Conversion.
Yo! You CAN record non-RAW, regular ProRes with the R5 and Ninja V+ (and even DNx and H.265):
I've been pulling my hair out as I got the Ninja V+ and could not get it to work with 4KHQ and ProRes 422 and was at the point of almost returning it to CVP (here in the UK), Atomos still haven't replied to my support request from over a week ago (little no reply at all) as to explain how to get ProRes from the R5 to the V+ but CVP worked it out:
R5 menu > Yellow Wrench Icon > Option 4 > AUTO and NOT 1080p. Now works flawlessly with 4K, 4K HQ and recording to ProRes 422, DNx, H.265 etc.
Such a simple thing yet will catch many (if not everyone) out as Atomos have not got a dedicated Ninja V+ manual out there.
Hope this helps 🤘🏻
Great tip! and thanks for letting us know!
will it work with 120 as well? I’m a resolve user and getting dnx files straight off would be best for me
@@Dean_WeAreTheShow The R5 currently does not export 4K 120 through the HDMI.
Is there a way to use touch focus (for the lens to focus where you tap) on the Atomos screen? Liked for example tap the Atomos screen and have the lens focus where I tap, like it would if I tapped (with touch focus on) wherever I touch on the a7siii monitor?
Unfortunately not. That would be an absolute game changer if Canon would allow camera control like that via the HDMI. Thanks for the comment and have a great day
What coiled HDMI cable supporting all recording options would you recommend to connect Sony A7S III (maybe other cameras with 4K/60) and Atomos Ninja V+?
Atomos makes a good coiled HDMI Cable.
From Apple;
ProRes RAW data rates benefit from encoding Bayer pattern images
that consist of only one sample value per photosite. Apple ProRes RAW
data rates generally fall between those of Apple ProRes 422 and
Apple ProRes 422 HQ.
hi, do you connect your canon eon r5 to 8v or 12v dummy battery?
It cannot record 8k from the camera because the HDMI port is a 2.0 port (got that info from the Atomos website). The highest with a 2.0 port is 4k 120. The raw signal fits within the pipe of the HDMI 2.0 spec. No firmware update can fix this unfortunately.
Great info! Thank you so much for sharing that! Have a great day!
is this Atomos model V+ compatible with Sony A7C ?
Any idea if any of these issues have been fixed now?
I have the original V, such a great product. The ONLY thing I wish is that they would give RED Control as a paid module.
Do you know if you can share the paid modules you might have ( I have H.265 and SDI) to both V+ and V or do you need to buy them twice?
The RED option would be incredible, and with the current RED KOMODO, we can dream that it could be a option some day.
I'm not sure about the paid modules for the V+ and V, I'd need to check that out. Have a great day!
Sending RAW files to the recorder is less work on the processors of both the camera and the Ninja V+, however, for mp4, it requires processing in camera, then send it out for recording. Now the latency might be too much that the recording might not work practically. Just a theory
That could be it, it makes sense. I'm just bummed we can't do any Non-Raw 8K. Maybe there'll be a firmware update that can do it. Let me know if you hear anything. Thanks for the comment and have a great day!
@@DeafDirector Thanks for the video as well! Yeah it’s definitely a bummer, especially that 4K 120 thing. I was so determined I will buy the V+ soon so thanks for the heads up. The more I think about the 8K non raw recording the more I felt like it’s not a hardware limit. If transcoding to pro res takes too much processing for the recorder, maybe one day they will let us record h.265 directly to the ninja v+ for the 8K. Otherwise it may be a canon cripple hammer thing lol
I just recently purchased this new monitor because they advertised it to record 4K 120fps only to be disappointed it’s not supported on the R5. Felt deceived, hope they allow this feature in a future update without a fee.
I was seriously bummed to discover this, too.
Didn’t know that. Interesting.
Curious about whether the Atomos V+ is worth it now that it's dropped to $599 by itself or $699 with a small kit. Also was wondering a couple things from your video. 1.) It said CLog 2 on your Atomos, but internally you can only record CLog 1 or CLog 3 on the R5, does this allow you to shoot CLog 2? 2.) How much easier is it to edit with 4K ProRes on a mac vs the compression you get internally from Canon? 3.) Have they done any updates to shoot 4K Raw on the Ninja V+?... I still don't get why we can't shoot 4K raw internally on the R5 but it has 8K raw... Awesome video BTW and quite insightful as always!
Hey Evan, now that the price has dropped I would definitely say that the Atomos V+ is worth it. 1.) When you shoot in RAW on the Canon R5 you can access CLog2. I actually did a video on this czcams.com/video/r5BJYgSZies/video.html. 2.) On my own computer the 4K ProRes is a little easier to edit with, but not very much. I still end up making proxies on all my R5 footage, just to keep things smooth. 3.) 4K RAW is one of my most requested firmware updates for the Canon R5, but as of now there is no option. There is going to be a huger R5 firmware update coming from Canon in the next few weeks, but I have not heard any rumors about this option being included, but who knows? Thanks for the comment and have a great day!
@@DeafDirector Really appreciate your thorough response! I have an Atomos Shogun Flame for my C-series camera and it works well. Also allows 4K for a lot of 1080p in 4K Raw out older cinema cameras, but unfortunately not compatible for the R5. Interesting, I think I'll have to pick one up with the price drop. THANKS AGAIN :)
How about the vent noise? I got this today and is so freaking noisy. Definitely I have to return
Also saw on atomos’ website that the 8K raw is only 10 bit. 5K will get you 12 bit raw.
Now that sounds interesting....
I don’t think it is acceptable that you can only record raw in prores raw. I’m a Windows Davinci Resolve user and I would like to have raw cdng as an option. Prores raw for me an the sole option is a no go.
Can you change the log format on your ninja v+? Mine always reads canon log 2 (but my R5 is in canon log 3).
I was really surprised by this at first too. One of the beauties of RAW is because it is RAW you can set that in your editing Program. I was able to take the files into Premiere and then set the profile to CLog3 in Premiere.
Does anyone have an issue with 4K60 being choppy when trying to interpret it in a 24FPS timeline?
Hey mate , turn off the the standby low res in the hdmi settings on the camera, let me know how you went, I had the same issue
@@ndamedia2605 it keeps reactivating. Any tips to keep it off?
@@GeauxWavy just messeged you on instagram man
I’ve shot a few 8k Raw footage as a test with the R5 and V+ and it’s all new to me. Is it is normal to have a lot of noise on the footage! I found shooting in log is a lot cleaner. ( exposure is at 800 base iso / f2.8 / shutter 50 frames). Im just wondering if i’m doing something wrong?
It is very normal to have more noise in RAW because the camera is doing no cleanup on the image. When shooting RAW remember to push your histogram as far to right as possible (without blowing your highlights) and then you can lower the exposure in post, which really helps eliminate a lot of noise. When you shoot RAW you will also have to do noise cleanup in post, because the camera won't help you. Hope that helps, thanks for the comment and have a great day!
You’re doing nothing wrong. Clog2 is notoriously noisy in the shadows. A good lut, crush the shadows, and you should be good to go.
You are right, so disappointed does not let you record in 4K 120
I was looking to pick up a Ninja monitor for my A7sIII and FX3 camera and received loyalty discount of $500.00 off of the Ninja V+ Pro Kit ( $1799.00) monitor. I think your point about it not being worth the $900.00 difference is very valid however when looking at a discounted price of $1299.00 for the Pro Kit I felt it was a good deal to future proof my Sony camera purchases down the road, and hopefully get some FX3 upgrades in the future. It's a gamble.
I think you got a great discount, and I firmly believe that Atomos will continue to release firmware updates that will make this a better and better monitor. I also think it is a great future proof investment, because cameras coming out over the next few years should match up well. I was really torn on this, I think I'll probably end up with one in a year or so, but as a R5 user today, it makes sense for me to wait. Thanks for the comment and have fun shooting!
Just got knocked down to 999 for black friday... ouch
Its now $599 lol should have waited
@@MiscellaneousViewer001 I purchased this over a year ago and it has more than made its cost back. I guess I could have waited until it was discontinued however for an even better price.
My only reason to shell out the extra money is to record 4k 120. I guess I’ll just get the regular V
The regular V is still a fantastic monitor that I use on every shoot I go on. Good luck!
What do you use 8k for? 4k in itself is pretty clean. Are there any 8k monitors? Is it worth the stress? Overheating on the camera - space on disk - post processing computing - rendering - NONE I am aware of or VERY Few 8k monitors to watch what you overspent for and stressed out on. 1080p is plenty clean in itself..watching this video on FHD is satisfactory...so why fuss over 8k?
VFX work, and if you work in TV, for archival and future-proofing.
Wow it's crazy how much the price dropped on the V+. I just picked one up for $599 on Amazon!
$599 is for V
$799 is V+
@@Ultrarmx I got the V+ on ebay from Kenmore Camera for $599. 8K Raw with my R5! Brand new in the box.
What is the name of yout final song my friend??? Great video, a real opinion!!!
My final song is actually a tune I wrote and recorded a couple of years ago called "The Morning Song." I used to write and play a fair amount of music before I blew my ears out. Thanks for the comment and have a great day!
@@DeafDirector oh wow!!! Excelent song my friend!!! Really really great!!!
It is Impossible to record 8K non-RAW (YCbCr 4:2:2 signals) due to the HDMI 2.0 bandwidth limitation. In RAW case, the HDMI 2.0 can cover.
Thanks, Luke. Super bummer, but it is still incredible we have the 8K RAW option. I just wish we had a little more flexibility. Great comment, have a great day!
Isnt the limitation in the Ninja? you need a powerful unit to be able to compress 8K live, I think only the processors in the M1 macs can do that
@@johnnyweissmuller5838 first of all, both Ninja and camera are use HDMI 2.0 port, which is not capable for transmitting 8K 4:2:2 signals.
@@Luke-mf5rq the video signal is a compressed data stream, thats why the 8k raw is possible, the ninja just grabs it and records it, or decompress and records. If it had to also decompress, recompress and record, it would be toast within minutes.
@@johnnyweissmuller5838 No, the video signal is Not compressed in both RAW and YCC case. Ninja compress and record it. You can find this by connecting camera to any TV or pc monitor. Regarding RAW, it uses less bandwidth compared to YCC. 8kp30 RAW is able to be transmitted through HDMI 2.0 port
Do you notice a delay or lag on the Atomos Ninja V+ when HDMI RAW Output is enabled on the Canon R5? There is a very noticeable delay when moving the camera around when I'm in the 5K/8K ProRes RAW modes vs the regular modes when HDMI RAW Output is disabled. Look at the R5 flip screen image at the same time as the Atomos Ninja V+ screen when you pan and tilt around and you will probably see what I mean. I'm hoping it's because I don't have the right cable. If that isn't the case, it's a huge dealbreaker for me.
Hey Alex, I did not notice any more delay than usual, but I will keep an eye out for that. Thanks for the comment, have a great day!
Great video as always. You will definitely help tons of creators with this. Atomos's probably gonna hate you for this one but since I believe they're doing something unethical (trying to rip off early adopters with unfinished product for outrageous amount.)they only have themselves to blame. Throughout years of buying top of the line gears I slowly learnt my lesson. Nothing is more solid than a sound content. Even if you only can film it in 5k you'll still make it work. It's more and more obvious that the artists' touch was what really induced the audience. 8k maybe more gorgeous but that only lives with a very small portion of the population. Double price of the original ninja V could be well spent somewhere else for a lot of other things.
I think the V+ will be around for a while and will become more and more practical as other cameras catch up to it, but as it stands right now, there are very few cameras that can maximize it, so I think the best bet is to get current equipment can maximize what we have access today. Hopefully the prices will slowly come down. Thanks so much for the comment and have a great day!
@@DeafDirector price looks like it has been almost halved the last few weeks😮
The only option you have is shoot 5k raw from a 8k raw signal on the ninja v+
That's very shocking considering 8k PRO RES 422 and the mac ecosystem is why i considered sniping on this rig ... im so confused
this is confusing me because they literally advertise this on their website.. did they update it?
5k 60p RAW does has auto-focus ??
5K 60P RAW has full use of the R5 auto-focus
@@DeafDirector oh great thanks for reply ... 🤣 I hope canon keeps it that way finding out this flaw ... LoL
To be honest I'm starting to not like the ProRes raw option and feel it's not really worth it. Thanks to the better firmware we can record 8k raw and raw lite for a rather decent amount of time now. Plus the internal 8k raw is 12bit while the Atomos 8k raw is limited to 10bit.
A lot of the limitations on the Atomos are due to the HDMI 2.0 spec. This limits how much data can move through the port and what standard formats are supported like a lack of 4k 120p. Raw is a bit different since its data but it still has a bandwidth limitation. 5k 60p raw works because its a lower resolution and its 12bit again so thats good. This is why some cameras like the A7S III can handle 4k 120p as raw. Canon does not allow an extra crop mode at a m43 crop size for 4k only or perhaps they could offer 4k 120p. I really wish they would. It would be a bit tough on FF lenses to crop that much but I think a lot of users would really welcome this addition.
Even in terms of workflow I find shooting Canon raw to overall be a better option. I can shoot it without a monitor attached at all and just the barebones camera if I want. It works directly in Resolve, has a plugin to work in FCP and Canon provides a free raw development tool app to batch convert to ProRes on a Mac or a DPX sequence on PC. ProRes raw performance is amazing but currently most of that is only beneficial to FCP users and to a certain extent Adobe and Assimilate. Without buying extra software like Assimilate Play Studio Pro its harder to batch convert ProRes raw to use it somewhere else. The only option I can find to include noise reduction I that batch conversion is FCP which really doesn't have the ability to batch convert per clip.
Canon raw is slow and has really bad performance but I just batch convert it over night and the next day I have amazing 4k 12bit ProRes444 files I can use just about anywhere. I either use the Canon raw development app or use Resolve with NeatVideo part of the batch export to have 100% clean 4k files the next day. In a good 8 hour night I can batch convert about 40 minutes of video which is a lot for raw. This is on a base model M1 Pro MBP. A faster Mac will chug through even more. If I eliminate noise reduction from the equation I can get through hours of raw video every night.
Since I tend to not need the footage an hour after I shoot it I'm ok to batch convert for a night. I like to add noise reduction because it helps improve the overall range of the R5. We measure dynamic range based on how clean of stops we can use before we hit bad noise. By using sophisticated noise reduction like NeatVideo we eliminate a lot of that noise and extend the range of the R5 to at least 13 stops. The other part that helps extend the range is the 12bits and the clean unaltered noise and detail fro the raw video. It's more data to work with for Neatvideo and it can get a better result because it starts with more data. Part of what also hurts the range on the R5 is the HEVC encoder that tries to group similar colors to save bits for the important visual data. The very bottom stop of C-log 3 has very little 10bit coded values and a lot of that gets grouped together which is why we end up with more banding and flat posterized details when we push up the shadows on the R5. By using raw we eliminate any potential grouping of HEVC, any crude in-camera noise reduction and start with pure 12bit data. Even if that means it looks liek it has more noise. Thats actually a good thing and that means it's pure sensor data.
The other advantage is raw can use C-log 2 which has the same exact highlight potential of C-log 3 but digs int the shadows 2 more stops. While the R5 may have just too much noise down that far to make a difference what really helps is when shooting 2 stops over. This shifts the range so C-log 2 can now actually see 9 stops under middle gray. We lose 2 stops in the highlights of course but doing this with C-log 3 helps the noise but it doesn't help us capture as much detail in the bottom two stops. C-log 3 curve flattens out 2 stops sooner and has very little detail at all. So while the noise may be less there just isn't any actual data there on the curve. C-log 2 allows us to reduce the noise by two stops plus have a curve where we see a lot more detail down to stop -9. Thats where using C-log 2 can really shine on the R5.
This is all something we can get with the internal raw however and now with large enough cfexpress cards and the better heat handling firmware it's much more realistic to use the internal 8k raw on the R5. If we are just using it as a means to get to perfect 4k we can even use raw light to get even longer record times.
Can you edit prores raw in resolve?
I am a Premiere editor, but my understanding is that you currently can not edit ProRes Raw in Premiere. I could be wrong on that, but I think that Apple has not released the ProRes RAW codec to DaVinci yet.
You cannot edit ProRes Raw in Davinci Resolve. It is a very requested feature but to date it has not been implemented.
Just use DNx, easy on resolve.
Are you kidding? Dax is not raw 12 bit… hence, not a solution at all…
1500 bucks? Hm.... I think I pass... had hoped for 'a' use for this V+, to have it separate next to the normal V , and perhaps use SYNC module ... but just found out that Atomos thinks we all still use iPhones, so no support for Android, which sucks.
For me , the 8K RAW is way to much, also since I do multicamera setup with older camera's even, and there, the 'normal' 4K HQ already is extremely more detailed then the other camera's, so.... it's overkill for me. The 5.4K would be interesting, since that is an option on my GoPro and Insta also, and gives you juuuust a little more play with cropping, but 1500 bucks pffffff
It's steep, although Atomos is currently selling the V+ for $999 through the end of the year. It was a big enough of a price drop to convince me to get one (mainly to future proof my monitors for the cameras that will be coming out in the next few years). Have a great day!
@@DeafDirector it's 1200 euro over here.... skip the VAT, yeah around the same then. But still... lot of money... and as always, the moment you buy it, they introduce another way better solution.
I had that with buying the Ninja V... after couple of months, they introduced the V+...
But... I still love the Ninja V, has given me in combination with the R5 very very good video material...
@@JePeVePe The VAT definitely adds a bite. I've been using my original Ninja V for years and I still love it. It's a great monitor that I'll be using for several more. You probably have the right solution, I figure sometime in 2022 the Ninja V+ will be coming down in price anyway, permanently. Thanks so much for the comment, and I hope you have a great Holiday!
V+ on sale for 799 until the 30th
That is an amazing deal!
4k/120?....how ? explain
There are very few cameras that support exporting 4K/120, and unfortunately the Canon R5 is not one of them. I list the supported cameras in the video, and Atomos will probably continue to get more with firmware updates, so I would make sure to check the Atomos website to see the latest info on this. Thanks for the comment and have a great day!
Yes is the answer
Buy a dedicated video camera if you gonna waste away $$ on the ext recorder. Right tool right job. I saw a guy with GH5s with ext recorder all supped up filming a covid protest and boy he looked like an idiot running and chasing focus. Nobody can tell difference between 1/2 inch video vs fullframe.
I tell you canon made a mistake & will take of 5k RAW ... hahah
Is not worthy, ProRes RAW can't be processed in Resolve.