Early Lever-Action Rifles: Volcanic, Henry, Winchester
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- We've all seen lever action rifles galore in movies about the old west, and most of us have handled and shot a bunch of them as well. But do you know where they came from?
Today we will take a look at the first American lever-action rifle put into successful (more or less) production, the Volcanic. We will then continue to examine the 1860 Henry and the 1866 Winchester to get a foundational understanding of the development of these guns, and the interesting group of people involved with them.
/ forgottenweapons
A historical note, for over 100 years, Winchester stamped an "H" on the base of each rimfire cartridge they produced. This was in tribute to B. Tyler Henry for the contributions he made to the company.
Do I see a fellow Ian Hogg fan..?
@@PaulP999 Yep!
Cool!
Smith, Wesson, Winchester, Henry. Damn. The Volcanic Arms Company really had an ensemble cast of firearms big shots involved in it, didn't they?
"... You know what, I'm gonna leave this spring alone." I love the little genuine touches like that. A lot of guys would edit them out. I'm glad you don't. :)
+ZGryphon
I have noticed that Ian is very careful when handling the weapons. He won't risk damaging one or taking one apart in some cases.
+Deathlok67 Which is always appreciated by our consignors.
+Rock Island Auction Company I suspect that's why you guys (and their owners) are comfortable with Ian handling these old guns. I mean, a Volcanic, for pete's sake! If I had one, I think Ian might be one of the two people I'd trust to touch it. XD
I'm sure the free publicity for the sale has something to do with it. Ian probably has a significant following of people who would be interested in buying the guns he examines.
A Volcanic, Henry, and Winchester in the same room at the same time.... Wow, dude. I'm not often jealous of you Ian, but I'm jealous now.
I thought that was the start of a joke.
@@mattrobinson5099 good one
The reason they didn't put a handguard on the Henry isn't weight, complexity, it getting in the way of something. It's because then it wouldn't look so fabulous!
9:32 And at that moment Ian realized that he should probably not accidentally break the spring on a $75k antique.
They're not worth that much, are they?
+linglingjr It seems I aimed a bit high but looking a bit further it seems your typical slightly dinged up pitted one is gonna take you $30k.
Also it is a gun that you cannot fire since the ammunition isn't made and the only surviving examples are worth hundreds of dollars per cartridge, and since it's rimfire you cannot handload them. You can get faithful reproductions in .44-40 and other calibers though.
the estimated price on these are $7k to $18k. You're full of shit.
+linglingjr That's what it'll start under the hammer for, it's an auction, they probably go for more. Also take it easy man, watch the potty mouth.
+Nukle0n The price for .44 rimfire rounds is not in the hundreds of dollars. They're uncommon and desirable, but by no means rare.
And you actually can handload them. Places like Dixie Gun Works sell the brass, with offset holes for a .22 blank, I think.
it is always a pleasure to learn something new. thank you ian. ... my personal bob ross of firearms :)
+no name available If you haven't already, you should check out Ian and his compadre Karl on their awesome InRangeTV channel. It's informative, with a decent amount of subdued humor.
What a great comparison. :-) I will never get that out of my head now!
well, by means of calm voice and great sound, same as skills and expertise, but Ian lives forever, at least he is supposed to.
Rocketball ammo is basically 160yr old Caseless ammo. Crazy how the concept died over a century ago but due to other advances there's potential for it to return in the LSAT program as well is other military projects.
Just to add a point on cartridge calibers. Ian comments here on the fact that folks have the impression that 'cowboy lever guns' were chambered in 45 Colt. As he rightly points out, 45 Colt did not even exist when the Henry and the 1866 Winchester came out. But 45 Colt did exist from 1873 on, and yet lever guns were never really chambered for 45 Colt until smokeless powder came into use in the 1890s. This was, I believe, because 45 Colt is basically a lousy black powder rifle caliber. It's fine in a revolver - easy to load, easy to eject, and a robust, cylindrical cartridge. But because of its robust cylindrical casing it does not seal well with black powder pressures in a rifle, and results in fouling being blown back, which is a real pain in a lever gun, as you really don't want to have to disassemble the whole action to clean fouling out of it. The 44 WCF cartridge, introduced with the Winchester 1873, and now generally known as 44-40, is an excellent black powder cartridge for lever guns, as its bottleneck design, with a fairly thin neck, makes it seal excellently, so basically only the bore needs cleaning, for the most part. Since chambering rifles in 45 Colt was not a good prospect with black powder, things went the other way, and Colt chambered their Single Action Army design in 44 WCF (44-40) from 1877 on, calling this version the 'Frontier Six Shooter' (guns actually so marked). So, if a cowboy (or anyone else in the old West) wanted to have pistols and rifles in the same caliber, for the mid 1870s to mid 1890s period, that would most likely have been 44 WCF (although there were also lighter caliber options, such as 38-40 and 32-20).
Ian, I would love it if you could do an episode on the transition from Lever-actions to Bolt-action systems.
The buttstock on the Volcanic looks like a legitimate weapon in it's own right, eh? Pretty nasty point on that brass plate.
I have a 44 mag Rossi 92 (Winchester 92 clone) that has pretty much that same crescent style butt. You can't just shoot it from the shoulder like a normal rifle unless you want to be in a lot of pain, you have the hold it so that it wraps around your arm.
@@samhouston1288 does that mean a fat guy couldnt comfortably shoot it? nice
@@warshipsatin8764 Depends how fat. I'm not exactly a lightweight myself, but I also don't have fat rolls large enough to hide a sandwich in. I can shoot it just fine. Someone in the 400-500 pound range probably wouldn't like it too much.
Great job!
"Pathetically wimpy rocket-balls"
My first ever gun was given to me when I was 12, it is a Marlin Model 57M Microgroove Levermatic in .22 Magnum, it was made back before it needed a serial number, therefore, it doesn't have one
serial numbers became a legal requirement in the US only in the 1960s
Great presentation Ian. I like the fact that you covered first the Volcanic, and then the logical progression to the Henry, and finally the Yellow Boy.
Also the coverage of the Volcanic firing a "Rocket type round" rather than a self contained metallic cartridge. Excellent job!
On the contrary, it is more convenient to charge from the front by pulling the spring in the direction from the back to the front. Because the cartridges go by themselves, sliding into the store by themselves. And on Winchester 1866 the cartridges are loaded from back to front and you have to press the spring. And the more cartridges you load, the harder it is to press the spring. It can be supported by the loading door of the store of Winchester 1866 but in real combat conditions it can slip from where it is supported and becomes more inconvenient to load than that of Henry 1860. And such a wooden handle for the convenience of the front arm and the movement of the spring clamp can be put on Henry 1860. Even I have seen Henry 1860 with a comfortable handle for the front arm where it goes well and this clamp that guides the spring.
I have always absolutely loved the Winchester Yellow Boy Carbine!
Its truly a thing of beauty, that iconic stock, the lever action, side loading gate, fore stock and barrel atop magazine tube!
Probably the most recognised rifle type after the AK-47.
As someone who knows nothing about guns, except what I learned from this channel, I really appreciate episodes like this.
Thanks!
Wow. So much history branched off of one gun. In some strange point of view, it was a success.
Someone needs to remake the Volcanic in .22lr
+Hughes Enterprises Or atleast remake the Henry in .22lr, maybe the trade mark on Henry lever action rifles is expired and we can reregister it. You should google that. We could also buy the rights to make charter arms AR-7's while we're at it.
+Shane K I think I might even have some blueprints for a similar rifle just lying around. I'll look in my gunsmithing folders. If I do, it's not in .22, though.
Always enjoy going back to class with you.
Good video, always excited for lever action stuff!
I want to say, there's something funny about the contrast on your channel of you talking about excellent, clever firearms and developments, like these, and when you talk about total messes like most of Cobray's output
Short, great and informational video, keep them coming! :)
Great history lesson, giving a great base to build further videos on.
Thank You Ian for what you do. I thoroughly enjoyed this.
This is a topic I was already decently versed on, but it was still fun to see originals together. Thanks for doing that.
So Ian in the development of the lever action rifle where does the Spencer Rifle fit in, I do realize Spencer Arms Co. Was a completely separate company but they did have a unique feature of a "detachable" stock mounted tube magazine which to me seems like an easier reloading feature. And I always "loved" how the Winchester rifle and Colt .45 single action army are called the "guns that won the west". Both were fairly expensive firearms in their day. There were more Spencer sharps, trapdoor Springfield Remington rolling blocks, and weapons of Civil War vintage. Either surplus or brought home from the war. As for pistols they were as varied as today based on expense and personal taste as today. Bill Hickok carried .36 Colt Navy and Billy the Kid was known to prefer Smith and Wesson, yet all you really hear much about is Colt and Winchester. I once found a catalog from Colt printed in the 1880's that priced the single action army at $16 for average cowboys that is priced well above affordable price. Very few people now realize those facts. Showing what was really available is greatly appreciated. American firearms of the late "Frontier" to the "Wild West" were not just Colt and Winchester. Thanks for showing that. Heck I would love to see an original real, not replica, Scholfield revolver. You almost never hear about those.
Fantastic and intriguing as usual Ian!
Great video Ian. Very interesting history on company owners and how they progressed off of one another.
great work man. I didn't know hardly anything about the volcanic company. I've heard of them and their rocketball ammo but that was about it. thanks for the knowledge
Great historical review - very interesting. Thanks for your expertise.
Amazing video, Ian. Thanks!
Hello Ian,
Wonderful brief history here on some excellent guns. I love Civil War and weapons of the early West and there are very few videos on historically authentic weapons on CZcams (mostly reproductions)....understandable given the cost. In the final showdown scene of "For a few dollars more"...Clint Eastwood holds a beautifully engraved early Volcanic on Indio to begin the final duel. Many times in Westerns they remove the front grip of a Yellowboy to emulate a Henry...but I'm positive it's a Volcanic. Anyway, I wish to thank you for presenting the info and taking the time to do so....I'd love to see another video that continues on to the '73 and on with some nice examples like you've shown here. Thank you again! Great job.
+Forgotten Weapons
Interesting and informative video! Liked and subbed. Looking forward to learning more, thanks for the videos!
Thanks for making your excellent videos!!
Bravo yet again Ian. Thanks, you are a wealth of information.
Wonderful video...thanks!
Thanks Ian !! Great Stuff !! Remember my Grandmother telling me many, many years ago; my Grandfather purchased a new Winchester rifle. Two went to Australia, only one came here to NZ. The NZ Police wanted to register firearms and use them for the WW2 Home Guard. The old chap did'nt want to part with his pig gun, so he wrapped it in well oiled sacking etc, and buried it deep. Dont know where !! She said it was expensive and hard to get. Wonder ????? a ! of 1,000.???
If I remember right, a couple years ago there was a family in Australia that had a real One of One Thousand (or maybe it was a One of One Hundred) and wanted to sell it. I wonder if that was one of the two rifles you're talking about, especially since so few were made, and even fewer could have made their way to Australia. The chances of it being the same rifle... wow! I have a real One of One Thousand that my dad found in an Iowa junkyard around 1974 or 75. It's shown in RL Wilson's book The Golden Age of American Gunmaking and the Winchester 1 of 1000 on page 89 almost in the condition as it was found. Hopefully one day the buried one in NZ will be found too!
Rock island must love your videos as much as we do. Thanks for all of the great content.
+billhacks We do!
@@RockIslandAuctionCompanyso wtf happened? Whatever it is your missing out by not having the gun jesus display your products for auction and get people interested in the older stuff. Without ian i would not care about any old guns
Great video! Been reading Ospreys Winchester Lever Action Rifles. Pretty good little book.
I love your history lessons. keep up the good work man.
Great history lesson, many thanks
Nice video as usual!
I've gotta say man, I've really enjoyed your show!
A 200 grain bullet at 1100ish fps sounds vary like a 40 S&W. It's amazing how so many new things are reimaginings of old things. ;)
Ian, perhaps a history on the use of American cartridges and their qualities as they progressed from combustible paper/skin to copper cased to brass cased, rimfire and centerfire would make an interesting video?
Very neat to see an actual Volcanic Repeating Rifle.
Good historical info!! Very interesting :) !!
Another fabulously informative video from Ian, thanks ! I wonder how long it takes to research these?
Great Vid i enjoy the History alot keep it up :)
Great presentation, especially for all of your audience that own reproduction Henry, 1866, 1873, etc. Earlier reproductions in 44-40 have a wonderful gas seal with no blow-back of fouling on the cartridge case, and are highly accurate using a .429, as cast bullet with a moderate smokeless load. I have purchased one Henry repro. in 45 LC and it is only slightly less accurate than the 44-40s.
You know...This must be the only channel that, altough does mention the auction houses as a kind of publicity (In a understandable way, of course, they lend him the guns and whatnot) it just doesn't bother me at all. So, good work!
Ian, you really do a great job presenting these fine weapons. One of the few truly high quality and intelligent looks at history. This is what gun collecting is all about. When people rant about the fact that only psychos like guns you clearly demonstrate that smart conscientious people own guns for their significance to history and their pure mechanical genius. I am trying to get ahold of an engraved Volcanic...they are beautiful but pricey! Thanks again and great job. Please keep these videos coming (Civil War and Cowboy guns).
So good watch again
good video as always well done gotta love the old west firearms / i know round my area there is a 30 30 lever gun in almost every hunting camp around u cant go hunting without seeing masses of lever guns was done right then and is why its still viable today / and really the lever gun could still be a good defensive option as well in the states that have had their rights stomped on get a modle 94 and u can have 7 or 8 rounds at the ready and have an open top to single load after your empty
holy shit 540 likes and 0 dislikes. genuine content viewers keeping it real
There is always been a dislike or two, i don't know why someone would dislike this video? i wonder if they ever seen one in full.
Who in Heaven's name would dislike Gun Jesus?
Thanks for the great history lesson.
The Savage 1892, 1895 and 1899 lever actions, with their many innovations, would be a great addition to your coverage to this topic, once you progress through to those dates. Perhaps consider an alternate technology comparison, with Colt's contemporary pump action competitors to Winchester's lever guns.
Oh I'd love that Henry rifle for my collection that's non existent right now but hopefully I'll get one eventually.
I love the Henry
I'm gonna go ahead and say they probably didn't actually make a single Volition repeater, because if they did Ian would have found it and had it on that table
I was not aware the volcanic used ceaseless ammunition , great video really shows the progression
My favourite type of rifles even though they aren't the best for long range shots which is ok with me now that my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.
facinating. do you ever run across the ammo for these weapons? some of these older or more off the wall cartridges would be interesting to see
I definitely want that 1866 Winchester or at the very least a replica.
The audio is way better in this one.
Im gonna become a Patreon in the next few days. I watch
Gun-Ian many times a day 😀
I wonder what a rockball would look like smacking ballistics gel.
I’m surprised that the Lever Brothers received no mention.
Ian, could you talk about the butt plate cavity and what it was originally intended to hold? I believe I noticed it on the 1866... Thank you! LOve your videos,
Thank you
I have to say, that 1866 is pretty sexy.
Nit: I suspect you misspoke when you called gunmetal an "early" bronze alloy. Bronze was in use for several thousand years before guns were invented.
I love your work, by the way.
Love your videos! I have a question on the Winchester ‘73.. I believe you mentioned that it was originally released in 44-40. At what point did Winchester release that rifle in 45 colt?
Ian, any plans to ever look at a savage 99? (or one of its predecessors)
really ahead of their time, and at least in my mind the most advanced and nice to shoot lever gun out there. I have a 1950 one in 300 savage, and it's one of my absolute favorites to take out. How many other guns of that era had a cocking indicator, and a rotary magazine with a built in round counter?
Very accurate for a lever action too..n
Hi Ian, I was wondering if you might be able to talk and review the Briggs Patent Henry Rifle, pre 1866, I was not familiar with this gun until recently. Thanks
Hi Ian, what about the Spencer repeating rifle?
Are you going to do a full set on the Browning Winchesters?
Do something on Marlin please. I really love my Marlin 30.30.
When the 1860 Henry rifle first came out, how common was the iron frame version of it? And, was there any real difference in the price back then. I just hope someone watching this video has more knowledge than I do.
30 cartridge ASSAULT TUBE?! SAVE ME OBAMA
Volvo plz nerf
+potatoe potato It's isn't one of those evil scary black guns of scary evilness so it's ok.
darkblood626 no it clearly has a 30 round assault clip SAVE MY CHILDREN
potatoe potato but it can't shoot 30 asualt clips a second. So it's fine.
+potatoe potato Imagine if they came with threaded barrels! someone might put a silencer on 'em and make all 30 rounds 100% silent. Oh the horror.
OH BOY ITS THE LINCOLN REPEATER
Can you do a comparative of pros and cons of lever vs bolt actions?
+Jeronimo Murruni Nosler now makes pointy .30-30 rounds. They have a soft foam ballistic tip so that they can safely be loaded in tubular magazines, and they have much improved performance. I believe you are correct about not being good from the prone position, which is why they never really caught on in military circles, but I also think they are a more expensive/complex mechanism than a bolt gun.
+Jeronimo Murruni The Lebel?
+Minute Man yeah, as far as actions go, lever actions are pretty far up there in terms of complexity, which means more things can go wrong, and it will be more difficult to fix. Militaries, as a rule, don't like to tempt Murphy like that.
good vid
Ian, I've never heard an explanation regarding the shape of the butt stock. That I would find interesting. Example; why do a lot of the older rifles/muskets have the heavy curve vs modern rifles are often dead flat. Is there a functionality to it or is it just fashion?
wow , What a cool Volcanic... What caliber is it, does anyone know, there is still this Rifle for sale...!
this video should be in the Winchester Playlist
Love them
Is that the one from Good bad and the ugly?
Interesting to learn more about lever actions. While I love my modern firearms, still fun to see what was used in the past. I had to laugh when you mentioned the tube holding 16+ rounds. OMG, it's an assault rifle! Hehehe...
-Jen
Fun Video Game fact! The Lincoln Repeater in Fallout 3 is modeled after the Henry in this video.
+Gillan Laureth of Seles A lot of people only recognize a Henry because of that. Another note: As far as I can tell, Lincon was a bigger fan of the Sharps lever gun.
Did the gunmetal actions come from the factory polished, or were they more of a dull finish similar to the ones we see in this video? I'm sure most of the color there is due to patina, but what about when they were new?
+jrucker2004 That's a good question, I couldn't find any pictures of rifles in good enough condition to tell, but Lincoln's 1860 Henry is still around and in near-mint condition, definitely polished and very shiny. I'm not sure how representative it is of the standard fare though.
+GuyKappe I believe Lincoln's is gold plated, though I could be wrong.
+Michael W. You are correct. amhistory.si.edu/militaryhistory/collection/object.asp?ID=3
Has anyone ever been stabbed by the sharp point on the end of the stock?
Proberbly, 150 years of thousands of items existing will almost always result is near every eventalnity happening.
+Forgotten Weapons Hi Ian, a quick question about magazine capacity: you said the Henry could hold up to 16 rds, what is the maximum for the Winchester, instead? and which is the model which held the most cartridges? Thnx
Could 'Rocket Ball' ammo be considered the precursor to modern caseless ammo (ala the HK G11)?
Ian what is your favorite lever action rifle?
+Darkninja282 Probably the Winchester 1895.
+Darkninja282 As much as I enjoy the 95 like Ian, the 92 carbine is my favorite for hunting in this woods country.
+Forgotten Weapons Ever since I saw that in 7.62x54r, I have been lusting on it.
Ian, is that because of the rounds that it was chambered in and the stacked magazine? Me personally, I love the original Marlins like the 1893
The Savage Model 99 rifles are pure art. M99 is life; M99 is love.
What about the spencer rifle? it was the first lever action gun but also the first successful one to be made and used in combat.
I know it's an old comment, but the Spencer was not the first.
Man, Connecticut has such a rich firearms heritage, Colt, S&W, Henry, Winchester.....and now we've become one of the most anti-gun states. :(
Yeah it makes me so mad at are government
NY, MA and CA had some really good and innovative gun companies as well. Like Remington, Smith and Wesson and the original Armalite respectively. Wherever major industries exist along side good weather, populations grow side by side with political corruption.
3 wonders of 19 century