Age of Empires 4 - Viper Faces INSANE Chinese Play
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2021
- AoE4 gameplay and strategies are frequently posted here, where the focus is often on build orders which are unique or interesting.
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#ageofempires #ageofempires4 #aoe4 - Hry
This game is the primer example of why AoE2 love Viper. He tends to create some entertaining games even if it turns out to be a stomp.
52:57 Yes, there is a way to get all traders. Select all civilian units. Shift click vil to de-select and you got traders.
864 health and 206 base damage on those Chinese bombards is insane, must be the scariest thing to go up against
Why did viper keep fighting against the ground troops and let the bombards keep shelling him rather than rushing the bombards?
The Aussie/fitzbro duel comms are the best
Just pointing out one thing: Spearman can immune firelancer's AOE charge damage with their counter the charging. So firelancer will be easily own by spear in current version (spear can auto-counter charging)
30:55: This battle was a disaster for Viper. All his spears got massacred at the top on move command.
I don't understand why they made Fire Lancers such strong siege. They're already strong against every unit; they need to be incredible against buildings/siege too? Dumb.
Agreed then there siege. China is broken .
Insanely good content.
When the games that long you know it’s gonna be something special! Great work Drongo
What an incredible game holy crap!!! So much action aaahh
Great commentary and game!
Love the duo cast great game super entertaining
Intense game! Leenock needs more walls/ keeps!
I love aoe. I do believe that after watching this game affirms the idea i had a while ago that artillery such as cannons and trebs should have an ammo count that needs to be restocked at the seige building. Makes no sense that they can infinitely shoot. Archers i could understand being able to pick upany ammo they come across on the battlefield. That would make for a more interesting game
Amazing game to both players.
bombards should maybe get +33% HP rather than +50% to just sit there and heal via villagers with several military units whaling on them seems a bit OP on its now, not even considering the other unit syngergies China has.
Viper did well but I think Leenock probably could have ended the game even earlier if he was a big more aggressive. Once China enters Imperial I don't see any civ that can trade effectively so the only way to win is have a much stronger economy or waaay better micro.
I'd say Viper has better micro than Leenock but Leenock at least on this map showed a better grasp of strategy and while he could have won earlier he played it safe and just wore Viper down.
repair rate might be a bit busted too, maybe it should be limited to 1 villager repairing or something
Not only health but also range should be nerfed on Chinese Bombards. It is ridiculous that a culverine cannot deal with a bombard 1vs1...
@@t3ss33 fastest firing, most health, most range....
Chinese seige is just busted and boring to watch 🙄
easy way to get idle traders, ctrl+shift+A then just shift+click the traders from the list
intense match!
If you want to find all traders at once press ctrl+alt+a to select all your units.
Going Song was such a stupid mistake from Leenock, I can't believe he did that, it was so painful to see his siege and villagers loose the 15% speed, idk what went through his mind
Do you mean going Ming? Song is the second dynasty
@@emberwaves311 No he went backwards a dynasty by making the imperial academy possibly for the upgrade it gives to let his imperial officials carry 40 gold instead of 20 in a desperate attempt to increase his gold income with all the gold veins exhausted on the map.
@@jiijii123123 wait, are you able to skip a dynasty? Like go from tang to ming? I thought you had to work your way up through the?
@@emberwaves311 nah you can skip and also come backwards if you want, every age gives you access to the 2nd landmark and you can choose to do it whenever you want
@@emberwaves311 yes you can skip them and even go back and enter into an old one like they did on this video
leenock leaning on the select all army key
Another awesome episode of Snekwatch
epic battle
G’day Drongo
the best aoe4 game at 2021! good job for everyone
Nice game, i usually like the longer games more. I don't understand why China didn't grab the 3:th sacreded site earlier?
That was an awesome game
THATS a Game that earned the title "best game you will ever see"... incredible!
Amazing game. SO much damn amp to do this for over an hour.
Easy way to select all traders:
Ctrl+Shift+A, then Ctrl+Left Click the Traders and boom. All traders selected.
You can then also just rally all of them to the furthest market using W
What's the reason for not using the market place to sell food and wood to buy gold?
Where is your wall leenock....
My God an hour long game Chinese vs French 🤩 wow
phillip island in perth? its in victoria, lured.
Was this a series? If so, I wonder if Viper's strategy was to tire the fuck out of Leenock so he can sweep him in the following games?
God damn. What a harshly fought match, and it really didn't end where I expected it to either.
Viper is a scrappy player, especially with AOE4, he doesn’t rely on any particular play or any strong strategy. He is one of the best because he is just impossible to kill and will find advantages out of the tinniest things.
@@fanzhang5568 Well he is just super Flexible on his play style and adapts rather quickly, that survivability he learned out of MBL
Legend status achieved for liking the GP.. LET'S GO JACK!!!!
I see a 1hr viper game I click
Now you know why there are 2 commentators at sports events
best aoe4 game i've watched
Heading into winter? It's December 22. It IS winter
Summer in Australia
bombards overpowered for me . anyone agree. How can siege unit shoot that fast, have so much health, damage , etc...
Yeah, need a big nerf. They are too fast, too powerful, and make no friendly fire. That's too OP and make late game boring.
@@TheSkarzul at the very least make it so they either good against units or buildings.
Siege in general needs a nerf. All siege. They need to be slower and cost more units imo.
That was the best game ever
AoE 4 needs the bug with the bird in the corner.
Epic
i think he only taped out cus he hungry..... both players were on each other's neck the whole game.
Viper is such a legend, being so much behind and still toying with Leenock and making him look like a chump. Leenock only won cause China late game is OP
He actually won because viper muffed the ram push at the beginning on the second TC and lost his window to win. If you let China get to that post imperial you’ve already lost.
@@sleezyclips8068 That didn't help, but he still mainly lost because China is genuinely too strong late game.
@@sleezyclips8068 That's called being OP.
Do you really think Leenock has won once he survived to imp? He struggled a lot and you say he depended on civ, how come that lately-spawned bombards won him the game? What did he do during the past 40 minutes?
Knights are great units, but to make a lot of them, you prepare for earlier gold starvation. That's that simple.
I mean if you are worst in early and mid game you better be good somewhere
Haha yes philip island my home!
22:53 look at the scores lol!
Don't really get this game balance wise but I also don't play it, only watched some of these casts. Chinese got dynasty, firelancers, grenadiers, nest if bees and improved bombard and gunpowder untis..... then civs like French got stronger knights? Seems abit limiting
french also has that unfair feudal naval unit, and a faster unpacking canon and armored crossbowman
Yeah the French are pretty one dimensional on non-water maps imo.If you actually love playing knights and want to force it on most games French civ is fantastic.
The French also get units 25% cheaper when you build them in the area around a castle, which alongside their eco bonuses is really strong. 25% cheaper knights when your knights are already awesome has a big impact
France has a lot of passive bonuses, it was a faction made for beginners to learn. Despite what people write in the comments, France is one of the top civs at the moment, right after the mongols and the rus. China is good mostly on turtle maps so they can macro their way to victory.
Also, France has amazing landmarks on all ages, while China has mostly trash ones (the astronomical clocktower is one of the only good ones).
Looks to me like pandering to China.
You dont want to fight China in late game yet it can outproduce even mongols in early game.
The trick is to pressure early game (depending on the civ) and them sweep them mid game. They're the weakest at around the 10-13 minute mark. Try going fast castle to man at arms or if you're English early man at arms, the Chinese don't really have a way to stop them and a lot of china players currently go Double TC song dynasty boom so they can't get to Castle as fast and get crossbows out. Man at arms + Rams, delay their imperial. Them crush them before they even get siege superiority.
Off course this doesn't work as well at the highest level where a lot of higher level players are a lot better at holding under pressure. But hey Rus and Mongol are still S tier while China and French are the A tiers.
Edit Ideally you want to hit them much earlier than the 13 minute mark though. Since a Song dynasty can be hit in a optimized build at around 9 mins.
@@OutdoorsJ you can hit song and get to castle by 9 minutes as China even with double TC
@@OutdoorsJ They always seem to speed build walls and outpost during earlier rushes and harass, and able to speed produce counter units. overall easier said then done, but its definitely possible!
@@jasonyun1158 Yeah but then you forgo professional scouts.
If your opponent pressures you around 12 minutes just go mass nest of bees and zhuge nu with a few spears, no chance
I am not sure what kind of rugby drongo is playing
They use lances in australia i guess
Bombards should never win against springalds in my opinion, doesnt matter what civ..
Nothing needed nerfed. Perfectly balanced. It's like Zerg vs Terran again. Some had the early game, some had the late game.
As a china main, i always get so triggered when they use mills instead of granary X.X
Granaries are unusable basically because by the time you are done training villagers, so when you switch from song to yuan, your farm layout is finished. Since granaries are larger than mills, you can't replace them without rebuilding half your farms either.
@@lucaxtshotting2378 my man 1.3k ELO is not something to flex lmao
Leenock is probably the best china player rn, he knows what he's doin
Granaries are bugged, the drop-off zone does not fit with the actual model of the granaries so the 10% bonus is partially negated (cf spirit of the law video on farms), they're too micro intensive to manage if you want the bonus to stack and he already has 20k food in the late game, it would be a waste of micro and resources. Just go with mills you'll save yourself many clicks
I had to turn it off. I couldn't hear the sounds of war because of jabber mouth thinking he's a sports announcer. I want to hear the horse's hooves and the OMG screams, some people believe it or not don't have the game! Despite the chatter interference, the game is awesome and I will be picking it up.
I suggest those who never touched this game don't talk about balance as if you really know the game.
Do you know how dominating Mongol/ Rus is for now? Chinese OP? Better not be a turtle bashed to death against them. You guys don't know those games? They all look similar and unenjoyable to watch, so it is not shown. If you really think China is unbeatable late game go buy an XGP and try it yourself. If you play as China and still lose after imp, does that mean that you are utterly unskillful?😂 Go try bombards yourself, each worthing 4.5 knights for their gold, you play it yourself to see if it is really unkillable.
French & English are designed to be easy-to-learn. Do you know that French gets Arbalests? Royal Artillery? Do you know the majority of low ELO games? Many ppl cannot handle multitasking and they just spam knights+ archers/arbalests to win. Chinese toy units do feels interesting to grab but other civs get their UU for free. Chinese units' bank for the bucks are jokes against Horse Archers, Khan, Royal knights, Longbowmen, Arbalests, etc. Not to mention you pay extra just to build them. Without all the additional investments China is like 🥔.
Once Turin lost an FFA against China I complained about how brainless bombards and needed balancing in the late game, Turin said he saw China civ being well-designed like HRE, with very clear advantages & disadvantages, unlike Mongol/Rus getting great buffs throughout the game. They are strong all ages.
Basically, I am arguing cuz I don't want complaints to raise and China get nerfed like Dehli, in the end of the day Abba, China, Dehli becomes hidden civs and we watch Mongol Rus French English every day.
I think china should stay the strongest civ lategame but at the same time, the bombard unit and to a lesser extent, the firelancer unit both feel overtuned. People rightfully complained that the royal knight performed too effectively against his two main counters, I feel like a bombard shouldn't win against a culverin. Lowering the modifiers on the bombards, especially the +50% HP should be the way to go imho. Maybe changing the pop cost from bombards and canons in general from 3 to 4 or even 5 might be interesting instead, I feel like spamming bombards in lategame is the overall best strategy anyway, regardless of the civ you're playing, reducing their potential total number might create enough openings for them to be countered.
And about the firelancers, I mostly want their aoe attack to be nerfed a little bit so that it behaves more like the landsknecht's one and doesn't deal 100% of its dmg to everything in its (humongous) radius. Oh and maybe slightly reduce its dmg against keeps aswell
Interesting but what is really op is engine siege....A big nerf is necessary ;) Maybe make them less powerful and put on friendly fire?
Blegh. Would love to see a game either without a China or where China does not win for once.
Same here. It seems like China wins 99% of the time. That civ is seriously broken
Their winrate is about 50% on every map
Well one civ counters bombards completely which is RU because their springalds outrange bombards. Chinese bombards are good solely because the HP. But then again china doesn't really have anything till imperial. Castle is okayish but nothing special but imperial is where they start to shine so if chinese bombards get nerffed they need serious buff somewhere else also clockwork is one of the only landmarks that got serious weaknesses which is the 3x production only and specific position where it can produce
I wouldn't say they're good solely because of the health, the extra 2 range is a massive benefit against all civs including rus, rus only have 1.5 extra tile range which makes it very micro intensive to trade well into them, on top of that villagers can heal the bombards. The chinese bombards also reload 33% faster and instantly have the chemistry bonus. Without the health bonus they would still be way stronger than any other civ's bombards.
@@rdwind7734 Sure all bonuses affect, but the health is biggest contribution. RU doesn't counter bombards with bombards, but springalds because they outrange bombards and are cheaper to make. Health contribution affects more than just bombard vs other bombards but the fact that they're much harder to dive with melee / cavalry because the extra HP. Also higher health pool allows them to healed more effectively, because harder to insta destroy chinese bombards vs other civs. Lets say they remove the 50% extra HP. Then those bombards would be just slightly better and make chinese imperial age A LOT worse. Probably would become one of the worst civs to play
Fire lancers if you look at their stats are going to eventually get nerfed.
If your Russia: horse archers AND knights
If your India.... Elephants
France.... Royal knights....
Drongo this is the perfect opportunity to point out how dumb and annoying it is when events or releases are labelled as a season for only the America region.
Like they forget that its a different season depending on what part of the world you live in
How is making broken and unkillable bombards INSANE? Looks like the Relic balance team is clueless. Broken siege shiet in this game has put off so many people already...
It’s a ridiculously expensive imperial age unit. What do you expect it to be?
siege is supposed to be OP, how the fuck do you think -SIEGES- were won in the late middle ages? sure infantry is important but not without siege
I mentioned this in another video but unless they get a real team with experience in balance working on this game they will relegate into a niche game.
SC and WC were so well received because of the balanced play.
@@saultdog1603 On par with other units? Not a cost effective counter to most enemy units despite being by far the best anti building unit? Not a straight up upgrade on trebuchets that does like 5x the damage despite being anti unit?
I think they literally cost effecitvely beat french knights. They'd kill a knight before engaging, then 3 vs 1 the bombard kills a knight every 6 seconds, knights do I think 30 damage to siege, so then the knights would do 270+180+90 damage before all 3 knights die. The bombard therefore probably wins unsupported (and if you bring 1 vill the knights can't even outdamage repair).
They're also a better counter to ranged than french knights. Archers do 1 damage to them (whereas archers do like 6 to knights fully upgraded), and crossbows don't get their bonus vs heavy and do almost nothing to their 15 pierce armor. Even hand cannons have their damage cut to less than 2/3rds vs bombards. Spears are good vs both of them (but bombards are in the back so they can avoid spears), which leaves knights as only being better vs horsemen (a unit no one builds anymore) and maa (sort of, bombards can kite them with yuan dynasty).
To be fair, knights are probably the worst melee unit against siege, even french knights. But... I'm comparing them to a class of unit that's supposed to beat them, and not only do they not beat bombards, they're worse vs almost everything else too. If I compared them to say other siege, rams and trebs, aoe 2 rams trebs and bombards, aoe 3 falconets and mortars, age of mythology siege, age of empires online siege, and rise of nations siege line, each and every single one of those units trades cost inefficiently unsupported vs every melee unit, let alone cavalry (maybe falconets in large numbers could beat like spears in aoe 3 but they're realistically more like mangonels than bombards. They're pretty anti unit). Its not like they're better vs buildings either.
@@NONO-hz4vo I agree, less playable factions in SC and WC tho so balancing might me a bit easier.
China needs nerf across the board . Rus needs buff
idk man, HRE and delhi are also looking quite OP atm. I think mongols need some love as well though. Should be able to make triple units from oovoo and probably some field bombards with their units to make them even remotely viable