Re: that Misty Edwards article, from a former IHOPKC bassist
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2024
- I'd rather not be here saying this, but that article exists, so I'm here saying something I think is kind of important. I anticipate people will have THOUGHTS in the comments, I'm not here to get dragged in to arguments, this video is here to share some resources I found helpful, for those who are - to borrow imagery from a book I think the audience for this video will find familiar - tilled soil.
I'm a former IHOPKC musician, I've been trying to bring awareness to the mishandling of assault there for nearly a decade now (if you heard about a meeting with Allen Hood and Nancy Hester and a victim, I set that meeting up and also attended, the culmination of a few years' work vetting leaders on behalf of the victim so she could focus on healing until she was ready to attempt bringing her story before international house of prayer leadership for the purpose of getting assault policies changed), and I bring that up because the things I learned from that journey inform this video tonight. - Hry
A lot of you should try reading the description.
I'm not sure what this video tried to say. That's the problem when you don't speak straightforward but in circles
I recommend you read the description and the comments section to get an idea. Maybe it just wasn't for you. I didn't make it for everyone.
Sorry, but I found the video confusing.
That's partially by design. It wasn't made for everyone. See description.
Those writing negative comments about this video do not have the patience or heart to listen for the important points you were making based on your personal experience with a friend who was assaulted and your research on the topic so you could better help her. Victims of grooming and sexual assault (especially at a young age) deal with their trauma in their own way which often do not make sense to people who have never walked in their shoes. Thank you for the resources you mentioned.
There are two types of people on the planet - those who can extrapolate from incomplete information, and, well...
I totally, 100% get you and I'm glad you spoke up. I didn't like it either and that's because I've learned the same things you've learned - not from the same sources, but the same topics of how victims of trauma, especially if being blackmailed onto silence, are often victim-blamed and treated like they had 100% autonomy in all those situations... and the fact is, most of them don't. Yes Misty was an adult when it started but being an adult doesn’t mean you won't be susceptible to grooming - ESPECIALLY when that grooming is done by men in positions of power, like Prosch. There was DEFINITELY a power imbalance there between them, and he took advantage of that to groom her, especially if she looked up to him in the beginning and genuinely believed he was this great "godly" man the way so many others were fooled into thinking. He was also in a senior position above her in the ministry, period. And men in the church are automatically given more consideration and leniency than women are in the church. The way they were targeting Misty's trauma and making it sound like some flipping gossip and tea gave me the ick.
People who have never been groomed or witnessed it in real time will never understand. And based on scientific studies we now know that the self-preservation fear response actually has FOUR Fs - not just two. Fight, Flight, Freeze... and FAWN. Yes, FAWN is a self-preservation fear response to trauma and abuse. It's the brain's coping mechanism, and the brain is just trying to keep the host alive.
So in Misty's situation, whether she Froze or Fawned, or both - or any combination of them (because a person can definitely cycle through them all at times) - those are VALID trauma responses that genuine victims have when in an abusive relationship with a manipulator. And sadly there's MANY manipulators who have mastered and honed their manipulation skills to the point of becoming handlers. I know I can only speculate atm, but there's signs there that Prosch wasn't just manipulating and grooming her, I think he was very possibly her handler. Take that however you want but the biggest red flag for me is the blackmail he's been holding over her head to keep her trapped with him - blackmail is a CLASSIC tactic of high level manipulators and handlers.
The fact that she's "deathly terrified" of the blackmail being publicised could mean anything, but most likely it's something that he KNOWS would cause her the most trauma, shame, and embarrassment if made public, not necessarily because she did anything bad - the blackmail could very easily be something graphic that would make her feel humiliated, such as a rape video. And she knows very well (as ALL women in the church and ministry do) that women are judged MUCH more harshly by hypocritical christians than the actual male predators are. Women are constantly oppressed for being victims of assault and abuse, especially within the church. To this day, women get blamed for things such as being raped all the time. For all we know, the thing she's deathly afraid of is being re-traumatised by a rape tape. That's just an example I'm throwing out there because I'm seeing disgusting comments all saying "oh she must've done something Really Bad. Oh maybe she even had an affair with Mike Bickle" and it needs to stop.
Sorry this got so long but I have so many thoughts on this. But that was at the forefront of my mind to say how much I agree with you. Whatever the truth is, that article is just more proof of theze gross narratives surrounding women who are victimised, regardless of how they ended up in that situation.
So would you say the article about Misty is Not accurate or is accurate? thnx
@MikeBrumback I would say it shows gross, heavy bias against Misty and completely downplays the fact that she's also clearly a victim of manipulation such as grooming and other kinds, as well as other forms of abuse. Whether due to the writer being ignorant or misogynistic (and if the writer is a woman, internalised misogyny is a thing btw), or both, idk. Only a few of the details might actually be accurate, but even with any that are correct there's such an obvious victim-blaming narrative that it's still very misleading.
Thank you for your clear and detailed input. It’s really good. You really shared from a heart of compassion, but being raw honest.
So if JD 1 is a victim of MB for grooming, wouldn’t misty be a victim of Prosch for grooming. If people say misty is not a victim, then neither is JD1
@MikeBrumback yw, and yeah it's pretty hypocritical of them eh? People really not thinking about what they're saying... :/
I’m studying cults, at the moment specifically Scientology and the children born and raised into a cult mindset. I understand EXACTLY what you are referring to. ❤
I've noticed many similarities in the discrediting of victims trying to come out in both satanic ritual abuse and in clergy abuse of all kinds. Only the Lord himself knows the truth and I do pray for his justice in this mess.
Please explain something to me, if you will. You said, "only the Lord himself knows the truth....". If what you are saying is true and accurate according to scripture, where does that place us as followers of Christ? What about the gift of discernment which gives us the ability to divide truth from error? What about our need to judge situations where scripture says we are to judge righteous judgment or where it says the spiritual man is to judge all things. What about the Bible being our standard of measurement whereby we measure all things as it says the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than a two edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit and is a discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And what about Jesus saying if you continue in my word, then you'll be my disciples indeed and YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH and the truth will set you free. And what about the many admonitions in scripture that tell us, "be not deceived". How can we not be deceived if it's impossible not to know the truth about something? In my opinion, that is said by someone who either does not want to know the truth, doesn't care what the truth is, or willingly decides to believe a lie. The statement to me seems so convoluted and contrary to the teachings of scripture. We can seek and knock and believe that God is God and that everything hidden will be revealed. Yes, it is a mess. But this whole thing is a much bigger mess than what has already been revealed. There is more to come in the cleansing of the church and exposing everything that needs to be exposed. I heard a story one time about a sculptur who chiseled out of rock a beautiful statue of a horse and rider. Someone asked him how he did it. He replied, " Oh, it was easy. I just chiseled away everything that didn't look like a horse with a rider." Jesus is simply chiseling away from His people everything that doesn't look like the bride of Christ.
Thanks for your insight into what is going on. We are heartbroken…praying for healing. Thx again.
Mistry and KP need out prayers but they were in positions of leadership and were sinning and living adulteress lives. when they were supposed to be leading by example. How can we be sure they are truly sorry for what they have done? Go get your healing and repentance but stay away from leadership. The church is so broken it makes me sad.
Hey hey. I’m hearing everything you’re saying here. I’m with you. The people who are not understanding what you are saying, aren’t ready to hear what you’re saying… if you know what I’m saying. Thank you for sharing this.
Oh, I do know what you're saying, and I am right there with you 🫶 thank you so much for this feedback.
They’re Not ready. Great point. Thanks!
I thought the article was pretty straight forward and unbiased. When leaders of that stature are involved in sin and not repenting, it kind of needs to be put out there as a warning for other leaders. This is not the average church goer that fell into sin but folks that are preaching purity while involved in extreme immorality and IHOP leadership is covering for them.
I completely agree and I wasn't confused at all. Your thoughts were clear and I appreciate you expressing them. Thank you for making this video.
What exactly were you trying to say?? I missed the point 🤷🏻♀️
I recommend starting in the video description, where I said this video wasn't made for everyone.
or you could explain your point as I am not sure either. Was Misty a victim? She did admin to an affair and she was still on staff? Is there some detail I'm missing? I'm not judging I'm trying to uncover exactly what's happened here@@SieNoel
@@JamesStonley I'm not here to hand hold for you, and I didn't make this video to have the conversation you're digging for here, find somewhere else for that shit.
Maybe I don't want a bunch of whiny and entitled people and / or those just seeking salacious details so they can morally posture subbing to my channel?
wow your attitude sucks. Just saying. @@SieNoel
@@JamesStonleyJust use your brain. We all have a nature that can be evil. With our evil hearts and the power/ fame that comes with being a celebrity, it's going to be almost impossible to be on the straight and narrow all the time.
Most will fail in situations like this.
If you truly follow Christ, the millions of apostate Christians will probably hate you so you will NEVER have these issues.
These issues only happen to popular people.
Thank You for sharing this, these kinds of topics that are so prevalent in our church houses ( which are to belong too our Lord & the members that have help built the church and not just a man nor just a few yes men) it’s so important to get these subject matter out in the open and have accountability which in our churches. I only say this because first I’m a surviving abuse woman ( at a very early age) then went on to have both my little girls abused as well within the doors of the pulpit. And one very close to me the man I married.. it was the most horrific experience of all our lives.. so thankfully the Lord revealed it to me about my husband, we had only been married for three yrs. And he too was a minister of the Gospel, I have had too much of one first hand experience with this.. and because I have had that, I was able to predict every step MB, & IHOPKS WOULD DO NEXT, and so they did.. I take no pleasure in this at all & my words for saying all of this. But when men go start their own churches up, there is a prideful reason… : so no one they will have to answer to especially even all the members that ( without their help could not have been done) yet they snuggle in their conniving ways to put all members under their foot of control.. it is so sad, I think Christians know something needs to change but are to afraid to speak up.. that’s why we have so many different denomination’s as it is, oh! And I truly believe Satan had his heavy hand in doing it so.. I don’t want to take up more time, but I just would like to remind people, not all victims survive this, see MB. Got to spend Xmas with his family , I didn’t I had to go to a cemetery to be with mine, as well as a lot of other parents, this is the worse part that never comes up, yet we wonder why so many teenagers are harming themselves into lost in living, they won’t tell anyone and those that do still cannot handle the shame & embarrassment should it come out.. we want more human intervention from the body of christ and exspose it on every hand, people aren’t sorry until & not even when they have been exsposed… sorry this was so long, I’m glad for what you are saying.. GOD BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU IN HIS TENDER LOVING CARE…
I'm sorry you experienced all of that. Thank you for sharing so vulnerably here. I am so sorry this saga has been so familiar for you :(
@@SieNoel Thank you my Dear.. it’s hard sometimes to hold in my contempt at times but I want to hope always to help others parents eyes as to how to never completely trust even a dear friend… ☺️✝️🛐🙏
The "church" has been apostate since the 20th century and will unite with the Catholics and Muslims, etc to form the one world religion. Your "pastor" will hand out the mark of the beast.
Most of he true christians have left/kicked out of the church building.
If Bickle was a real Christian, no one would want to follow him and he would be hated by the "church".
Video was just some rambling. What's the point?
Did you attempt reading the description before commenting
@@SieNoel Yeah, your rambling a bunch of nonsense.
@@pastorwarreng9775 maybe you're just not the target audience of this video, the description very clearly says that it's not for everyone
@@SieNoelAgreed. Always enjoy your bass playing. Cheers!
Thank you for your voice. People need to understand cults more to appreciate ehat you sre saying
If we don't know, ADORED -- that God ADORES us, each and every one, with every fiber of His Being -- we can be sitting ducks for all sorts of things. Very unpleasant things, which can devastate not only ourselves but others.
Knowing (feeling, experiencing, enjoyning) ADORATION -- God's ADORING of us, personally, deep within our hearts, minds, spirits, souls, bodies even -- His Sacred Breath, His Very Ruach, Very Being -- one with and in us.... is EVERYTHING. For EVERYONE.
This is very similar to what many of the leaders at ihopkc who just got outed as abusers, predators, hypocrites, etc also used to teach, just saying...
If we don’t know that He is worthy of our adoration shown by our ongoing surrender and obedience to His word, then we are sitting ducks…….
Very well said. Bless you for your kind address.
Your message is unclear. Can’t understand what you’re saying other than - you played bass at IHOM and don’t have a personal relationship w M Edwards.
Maybe best to pray and intercede - and not comment for now- until you’ve spent more time in prayer
The Holy Spirit guides our thinking and speaking w clarity
You may have a beautiful gift of intercession and not even realize - how much so
Every blessing to you ❤
lol no, I don't need random internet strangers telling me how to exercise my spirituality.
Maybe you should read the video description before commenting.
What you doing to gaslighting her. Stop
She seems pretty honest here and her off the cuff video makes it more genuine.
So, how has all of this affected your relationship with Jesus? I have been somehat shocked yet at the same time not all that surprised how many musicians in the worship industry dont even believe in him. So i was curious if this has driven you further away from him or closer yo him?
Yeah, I'm not going to answer that. I don't think it's everyone's business. In my experience, people only ask that to find out if they should listen to me or dismiss what I say and I'm just not interested in being evaluated that way.
@SieNoel well, so much for experience but i guess i can respect that, but I would say not answering also creates an evaluation. It seems you've obviously been hurt but my question was an honest one, because at the end of the day its the question that matters more than any other. It's just interesting to see how difficult circumstances affect people's Faith and reveals by the fire we walk through, beyond all the mechanics of the institutional worship machine that you all were a part of. I know the last time I was at ihop was about 15 years ago and was struck both by the beauty of the music but sensed something in the culture that seemed off, even with those in attendance. Anyway, hope you can find some healing through all of this.
@@sdm101869 regardless of whether or not it is your intent, this is a very public forum that you're asking that question in and answering it opens me up to that treatment from others. It's a very personal question. I'm not going to be answering it in a public forum for a stranger. By your own admission with what you just said about how a non-answer also opens me up to being perceived certain ways, maybe you shouldn't be asking such heavy questions to random people that opens them up to being scrutinized regardless of what they say, since you seem to understand that even a non-answer carries a heavy weight, an answer in any direction also carries a heavy weight, it's a very weighty question to begin with, to be asking a total stranger on the internet in public - it's not everyone's business.
What does the Bible say about adultery, fornication, lying and hypocrisy? The scripture is our guide on this, not what any of us feel.
Yes most Christians hurting from any type of talks working long years on HEALING from Trauma do usually know the true Scripture of the situation but it has to do with the maturity of the walk with Christ that works and that comes from Godly loving Christians and friends that TRULY WANT TO HELP VICTIMS get THAT HEALING.😊❤
I am John4226. It is very important to rightly divide the word of truth, as the Bible says. Scripture about lying, fornication, adultery, and hypocrisy always apply to lying, fornication, adultery, and hypocrisy. Funny how that works...Some scripture is meant to encourage, some to challenge, some to cast vision, and some to convict us of sin. It isn't meant to condemn us but lovingly meant to bring us to repentance. He that covers his sin will not prosper, but he that confesses and forsakes his sin will receive mercy, scripture says. I have spent more than 25 years working with prostitutes and heroin addicts. (talk about traumatized and traumatizers?...). I have seen many, many of them instantly healed and delivered after giving their lives to Jesus and being filled with the overcoming power of the Holy Spirit. They did not need Christian counseling, but they needed prayer and encouragement in the Holy Spirit and needed to be taught to be dependent on God and to learn the scriptures. They also learned the importance of sharing their faith with others, which besides being a commandment is a great way of keeping our minds and hearts fixed on the Lord rather than ourselves. The modern western church, unfortunately, has been strongly polluted by modern psychology. We need to fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith who, for the joy set before Him, endured the cross, despising the shame and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. As one who endured abuse myself, I can say that the comfort of the Holy Spirit, fellowship with other Christians, studying God's word daily, praying in faith and sharing my faith with others brought me through difficult times where I despaired of life itself, but I didn't stay there. I wanted to continue to live for Jesus, realizing that everything He did in my life was GOOD and that ALL things work together for good to those that love God. I shared my heart with the Lord. He is our healer, our victory, our overcome, and His Word is our authority. The church is not a hospital. Like any nation or army, the church should have a hospital for the wounded to help them recover and get back into the fight of faith we need to be engaged in. Scripture says we are to pity the weak and comfort the feeble minded. It also says on our most uncomely parts, we are to bestow the greater care. Why is it that people in the world are often able to overcome difficulties and trauma quicker than many Christians? Could it be because we are not going to the Lord and His word for the proper help that is readily available to us? Is it because we are listening to a powerless pseudo gospel that applies band aids instead of the proper treatment? The name for God most used in scripture is "Captain of the Lord of Hosts," which means Captain of Armies. Yes, we are the family of God, but we are also supposed to be an army that listens to and obeys the commands of The One who knows best what we should and should not do. Beware of people who sympathize with hurt, but don't lead you to Him and His Word and to repentance when and if it is needed. Strong delusion comes in many forms.
What the hell are you tallking about? Give us some explanatory context on the topic at hand and don't just ramble about "what you're NOT saying!" What are you SAYING?
You're on the internet, so go figure it out. I recommend starting in the video description. If you can't work it out from that, maybe this video isn't for you.
Are you not up to speed on Bickle’s Cult? You’re part if a shrinking group
Please be more kind in tone when addressing your sister in the Lord. Your main enemy is the Devil. Don’t ever forget. I know it sounds so spiritual, but it will help keep you and I from attacking other points of view.
@@MikeBrumback hey Mike, thanks for stepping in, but on this one I think you have some logs to deal with before showing up on my wall to defend me from this dude's splinters, ya know what I mean? If you are the same Mike Brumback from Facebook and who blocked me and many of my friends on Twitter for disagreeing with you, that is. You know, the same Mike Brumback who was posting printouts of emails from Bickle that were really cruel to Jane Doe? I don't need you defending me. I need you to learn the shit from the books I recommended in this video.
Great job
I saw nothing wrong with the article! What I got from it Misty was groomed is and was a victim and hasn’t realized it! Procsh was 25 yrs her senior he’s a predator imo! I cannot imagine the spiritual, mental, and emotional torture she has been through! She is a broken vessel! I hope she just confesses to all things to start her healing instead of denying and covering for those who preyed on her! My heart breaks for her! My heart breaks for the families destroyed! She must be held accountable at the same time there is freedom in true godly sorrow and repentance granted by God! We in our flesh cannot repent because our flesh is enemy to the Spirit it is through the grace of God we can truly repent and become a new creature in Christ and all things become new! Blessings
Was he married when dating Misty? If so ..affair on his part too?
@@barb8452 Yes he was married to Mike Bickles sister! Yes he is accountable for the affair because he’s a predator! She was 32 when it started! Blessings
Longest word salad I've ever come across.
Maybe you weren't my intended audience
@@SieNoel maybe you need to organize your thoughts and express them methodically.
@@jameslinmdmaybe I'll do what I want and you can cry about it
@@SieNoel I wasn't crying. I was pointing out your shortcoming. Lol.
@@jameslinmd nah, you were being entitled because not every video on the internet was made for you
Such a weird video. Like, I have no clue what you were talking about.
Read the description.
Jesus Christ it took you 6 min. to get to the point in a 7 min. video that we are not suppose to "know what you're NOT saying!" Let your nay be nay and your yea be yea, and out with it, for God's sake. Have a little mercy on those who are attempting to listen to what you have to say. I'm showing you respect by listening. It would be respectful on your part to say what you have to say.
First day on the internet?
With less effort than it took you to write out that comment, you could have just checked the video description where I said this video wasn't made for absolutely everyone. Maybe it's just not for you.
Why don’t you show everyone how it’s done. Maybe it will go viral.
Courage is applauded more than critique. Don’t ever Forget.
What a lot of confusing rambling. Pretty sad 😢
Read the description
That's not an answer.
@@margienielsen5939 yes it is, you fall in the category of people this video wasn't made for. It's clearly laid out in the description that this video isn't for everyone. You can stay mad if you want, but that's your day that you're ruining. Not mine. I don't care. I knew exactly what I was doing when I made this. I wanted to obscure certain things from people who have certain mindsets. You're just telling me that my strategy worked.
@@SieNoel you certainly haven't ruined my day girly. Don't give you a second thought. It's just that your reply comes up in my email. So tiresome!!
@@margienielsen5939 👌
Our world is in SERIOUS trouble due to vacant people like this.
She reads a couple of books/watches a few films and brings us a jumbled commentary on something, not sure WHAT?
But rest assured, she had some dental problems and at some point Misty’s parents helped her.
This video wasn't made for you. Stay mad 🤙
Karen, you lead a house of prayer. I’m sorry, but please show more kindness than that and Never attack anyone’s appearance. I Do Not believe that came from a place in the secret closet. I assure you that. Making critical remarks about someone’s appearance is Not from the Father. Please Do Better. thnx