I believe that NaVi's ability to: 1. Stay mentally resilient 2. Quickly and efficiently fix their mistakes 3. Have those pop-off performances from w0nderful, jL and b1t can secure then more than "the odd trophy". Yes, they lost to liquid in a studio game, but the system they have been working is bearing fruit. This roster absolutely can win events like Cologne and Shanghai.
@@justaneverydaycatiguess744 come on man they haven't played Spirit since player break, they improved form a lot since then so we don't know if they can or can not beat Spirit until they meet again
@@vedser who cares about Blast groups LMAO, losing games in advancement games is not a big deal lol. jL and Aleksi said multiple times Cologne is their goal, they didn't care about this little qualifier trophy-less tourney
I think B1ad3 is legit just saving strats on inferno and that's why NaVi doesn't pick it. Not that many teams pick into it and it's probably the most tactically restrictive map in the pool. Whatever pocket strats and setups you manage to cook up for it are too valuable for you to waste in insignificant games, much more so than in other maps.
@@vOLTziX Dust2 isn't tactically restrictive, quite the opposite. You can try to be tactical, but at the same time anything goes as long as you just shoot head. Inferno on the other hand is a map where the most important thing is being in the right place at the right time, manipulating rotations and having good executes. You can get completely shut down just with utility, tactics and setups alone.
@@romaliop honestly, people are giving NaVi too much shit for losing vs Liquid in goddamn Blast Groups. The most insignificant qualifier ever. With this format you can lose so much and still qualify. I am sure NaVi brought their B game because they're keeping their A game for Cologne. Also, all those map losses were very very close, our map picks were always dominant
@@RobertCalinescuIf they had only lost once, I’d agree with you, but to lose twice in a row to an inferior opponent is not just navi bringing their B game anymore. That’s a real loss they need to learn from if they wanna win cologne.
52:13 really glad Maniac highlighted and dug into how adding Frozen and removing Twistzz may have upset the balance of the team. Sure Frozen is a stats upgrade (by a small margin) but Faze clearly lost a more cohesive roster. Nothing against Frozen, but like both said.. he's a star, not a superstar. He won't take over a game like Donk, so building the team around giving him the best chance to frag is clearly taking away from how they used to win by commitee.
FaZe should look back and see what made the team previously successful, and that was back when they had excellent entry fragger with Twistzz. You've upset the team balance by adding too many baiters. You either keep ropz or frozen, but not both. You need a strong entry fragger. I think EliGe would be a good fit.
Russia became a meme of CS, but the scene would be so boring without players from Russia. Its so lame that the orgs take out their frustrations with the Russian government on teens that play video games and other athletes that worked their whole lives to compete with the world.
I didnt mean team orgs, i meant tournament orgs and yes... I know the game is being played on a much grander scale, its not really them that made these decisions, its lame that our reality is this way.
@MichaelMcmanhory-ms9mr I agree with the visas part, but there were ridiculous measures instilled by TOs in the past. For example, I don't remember if it was Blast or ESL, but one of them prevented Gambit from competing, forced VP to do that change to Outsiders, yet allowed a full Russian, Russian sponsored Forze team to compete without any restrictions.
@MichaelMcmanhory-ms9mr You are right, now that i think about it, the tournaments are just being dl#k$ by not allowing Russian flag and other small restrictions, but its the governments that are not giving visa and making their lives difficult because of nationality. But yeah, i dont agree that it makes sense, because When the US was commiting war crimes troughout the past 80 years, there was no major denial of visas or attendance for the US athletes, yet, when the Russia justifiably goes against the chess piece of the NATO, they firstly brainwash the population into believing it was not justified, encouraging people to listen to them instead of actual person who made that decision and then making it a statement by vitually removing Russia from the world map, which extends to the innocent sportsman and everyone else that was "unfortunate" to be borth in that country. Its scary, because the west is powerful and the rest is the majority, i hope theres no escalation, its scary.
I agree about the Navi takes from Duncan and Maniac in general except I think Navi is underrated. I mean if you can consistently make playoffs and then go supernova every few events then I don't see how they are not legitimately top 1 in the world at least until another team can do the same. Only time will tell. If Navi dont make the semis of Cologne with a stacked bracket then I'd say yeah they are probably not #1.
Either faze pulls out a miracle cologne run out of nowhere like g2 did last year after bombing out of blast fall group; or I’m afraid ropz and frozen will pull a ‘stabbi’ on karrigan and jump ship immediately afterwards
The thing with w0nderful is that he's inconsistent vs the good teams. In the grand finals of the 2 tournaments that Navi won this year and the Blast finals they lost in he's played bad.
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The expiration date on this title just reached its final day. G2 humiliated Spirit and i was rooting for Spirit. I just prefer to hold on to reality before my preferences.
Why is it that esports dominance is always shorter than sports dominance? I get that there are leagues and many other factors but the best player is rarely in peak form for as long as sports athletes.
@@ElementalDj yeah, in lots of sports if you are "dominant" for 1year people just call it a good season, meanwhile in esports if you manage to dominate for a whole year people will already have a debate for best team ever
ik this video was filmed like before liquid beat navi twice, but its funny how thorin and maniac was talking about how navi inferno map 3 is pretty good but then liquid beat navi (close game though) twice on inferno map 3 spirit is definetly the number 1 team in the world, keep in mind every big event they have attended they made playoffs and also convincingly, and the only teams they have lost to is faze, mouz, vitality and g2 in their honey moon, and they have a winning record against navi not only in groupstage but in finals
@@bigstrawberry4552 Frozen is almost blameF level baiter. Ropz is also a baiter, but he plays anchor roles so it's not that detrimental to the team to be passive.
@@bigstrawberry4552I'm not stupid mate. Last year he was 12th in HLTV ranking but people expected him to be in the top 10. I'm pretty sure you don't watch games so I'll recommend you look for Striker and Prof explanation. He had the second highest save rate after BlameF. Frozen is a good rifler but people overlook lots of details in his game.
47:00 maniac's thing about its cologne and faze will rise is not entirely true, that was true with the faze with twistzz (im remembering them losing dallas and springfinal and roobet cup and people folding on them but then they win cologne and shut the haters up)
Holy shit 1 tourney and now not only is monesy not the best player in the world, but not even the best in G2. Like what the fuck kinda take is that. And Maniac nodded in agreeance.
For my money faze is looking especially bad just because of how cutthroat the scene is right now, we really dont have one team thats had all its pieces line up to be dominant but we have about half a dozen other teams vying for that spot and a hell of a lot of teams that can easily cause an upset if youre having an off period so all it takes is faze to show a bit of vulnerability in their individuals and they drop straight from mob boss to getting shanked in an alleyway by ninjas in pyjamas
So basically Thorin's reasoning for calling the 2023 major a fluke win for Na'Vi is their inconsistency? By that logic he should've called every major win by an inconsistent team and that has not been the case, did he call s1mple winning the major a fluke? Nope, was Na''Vi dominating? Nope. It's just that this line up wasn't given the credit they deserve simply because w0nderful came to replace s1mple, and jL coming fresh out of Tier 2 to Tier 1 CS, so the analysts are the ones who underrated them. It's very obvious.
You mean win second major in the same year? Let alone they have literally won the 2 biggest events so far in 2024. I would say shangai and cologne are the biggest events left this year :)
For anyone wondering on their thoughts on Navi, it's the same old farted opinions, narratives and dogmas coming from the same relic dinozaurs from way back the beginning of the year. "Overperformance" "Fluke" "B1t and Wonderful are all the firepower" "Aleksi and Blade are the only reason they're competitive" "No star players" "Won x, y, z events but won't win the next 5 in a row" "Kick iM" Basically, ancient pseudo table "analysts" trying their hardest to keep up outdated, tired, irrelevant, cliched narratives, always making asymmetrical assessments about Navi compared to other teams, holding them to a standard they don't hold any other team at, always moving the goalposts after every win. Save yourself the time, dislike, go back in your feed, hover the video, press options -> don't recommend channel. That's what I am about to do, see you never, Last Free Nation Counter-Strike comment section.
One look at the comment history and the guys who agree is all I need lol, Thorin could do an entire 2 hours complimenting Na'Vi individually and as a team and somehow mfers will hear it in one ear and out the other
Karrigan is the next hooxi. Good strats wont save you from being benched if you cant get any sort of impact inside the server. Might be time to start asking when should karrigan hang it up n start coaching. Imagine twists was still at faze and they dropped karrigan and picked up frozen having twists IGL, could have been interesting seeing how liquid has done at blast groups. Not saying karrigan is as bad as hooxi was but its getting to the point where the convo could be had with some of his games where hes been completely absent.
I believe that NaVi's ability to:
1. Stay mentally resilient
2. Quickly and efficiently fix their mistakes
3. Have those pop-off performances from w0nderful, jL and b1t
can secure then more than "the odd trophy".
Yes, they lost to liquid in a studio game, but the system they have been working is bearing fruit. This roster absolutely can win events like Cologne and Shanghai.
and the ability to consistently lose to spirit while consistently defeating g2. :)
@@justaneverydaycatiguess744 come on man they haven't played Spirit since player break, they improved form a lot since then so we don't know if they can or can not beat Spirit until they meet again
@@RobertCalinescuthey improved so much that they lost to liquid twice lmao
@@vedser who cares about Blast groups LMAO, losing games in advancement games is not a big deal lol. jL and Aleksi said multiple times Cologne is their goal, they didn't care about this little qualifier trophy-less tourney
@@RobertCalinescu they lost to spirit every time this year, stop coping
Here after Spirit got humiliated at Cologne. They managed to get 8 rounds in 3 maps which is not bad.
I think B1ad3 is legit just saving strats on inferno and that's why NaVi doesn't pick it. Not that many teams pick into it and it's probably the most tactically restrictive map in the pool. Whatever pocket strats and setups you manage to cook up for it are too valuable for you to waste in insignificant games, much more so than in other maps.
@@romaliop dust2 literally exists in the pool
@@vOLTziX Dust2 isn't tactically restrictive, quite the opposite. You can try to be tactical, but at the same time anything goes as long as you just shoot head.
Inferno on the other hand is a map where the most important thing is being in the right place at the right time, manipulating rotations and having good executes. You can get completely shut down just with utility, tactics and setups alone.
@@romaliop honestly, people are giving NaVi too much shit for losing vs Liquid in goddamn Blast Groups. The most insignificant qualifier ever. With this format you can lose so much and still qualify. I am sure NaVi brought their B game because they're keeping their A game for Cologne. Also, all those map losses were very very close, our map picks were always dominant
@@RobertCalinescuIf they had only lost once, I’d agree with you, but to lose twice in a row to an inferior opponent is not just navi bringing their B game anymore. That’s a real loss they need to learn from if they wanna win cologne.
@@vOLTziX dust2 is an aim map wdym
A great primer for going into cologne. I'm going to enjoy this at work today
Thoorin said: "even ropz would tell u he is not that guy"
Few days later ropz says exactly that in an interview 😮
1$ for every time Thorin says "the joke is this"
Bro it sucks. I want to find out on my own what the joke is, but he keeps telling me D:
That inferno skit was awesome xD
52:13 really glad Maniac highlighted and dug into how adding Frozen and removing Twistzz may have upset the balance of the team. Sure Frozen is a stats upgrade (by a small margin) but Faze clearly lost a more cohesive roster. Nothing against Frozen, but like both said.. he's a star, not a superstar. He won't take over a game like Donk, so building the team around giving him the best chance to frag is clearly taking away from how they used to win by commitee.
FaZe should look back and see what made the team previously successful, and that was back when they had excellent entry fragger with Twistzz. You've upset the team balance by adding too many baiters. You either keep ropz or frozen, but not both. You need a strong entry fragger. I think EliGe would be a good fit.
Missed the opportunity to wish for ex6tenz to come back and win 5 majors
Thoorin spittin 3000 words per min 😅 awesome episode to pass the time.
Russia became a meme of CS, but the scene would be so boring without players from Russia. Its so lame that the orgs take out their frustrations with the Russian government on teens that play video games and other athletes that worked their whole lives to compete with the world.
Governments? Why go that far? Go read some reddit comments and forever rethink your opinion on libs and what rotten, hateful people they are.
You actually think it’s the orgs frustrations lol
I didnt mean team orgs, i meant tournament orgs and yes... I know the game is being played on a much grander scale, its not really them that made these decisions, its lame that our reality is this way.
@MichaelMcmanhory-ms9mr I agree with the visas part, but there were ridiculous measures instilled by TOs in the past. For example, I don't remember if it was Blast or ESL, but one of them prevented Gambit from competing, forced VP to do that change to Outsiders, yet allowed a full Russian, Russian sponsored Forze team to compete without any restrictions.
@MichaelMcmanhory-ms9mr You are right, now that i think about it, the tournaments are just being dl#k$ by not allowing Russian flag and other small restrictions, but its the governments that are not giving visa and making their lives difficult because of nationality.
But yeah, i dont agree that it makes sense, because When the US was commiting war crimes troughout the past 80 years, there was no major denial of visas or attendance for the US athletes, yet, when the Russia justifiably goes against the chess piece of the NATO, they firstly brainwash the population into believing it was not justified, encouraging people to listen to them instead of actual person who made that decision and then making it a statement by vitually removing Russia from the world map, which extends to the innocent sportsman and everyone else that was "unfortunate" to be borth in that country. Its scary, because the west is powerful and the rest is the majority, i hope theres no escalation, its scary.
Thanks for bringing Maniac into LFN
Machine Gun Thorin... fastest speaker in the Esports scene ❤
I agree about the Navi takes from Duncan and Maniac in general except I think Navi is underrated. I mean if you can consistently make playoffs and then go supernova every few events then I don't see how they are not legitimately top 1 in the world at least until another team can do the same. Only time will tell. If Navi dont make the semis of Cologne with a stacked bracket then I'd say yeah they are probably not #1.
That glance said that Maniac wants Ropz at Vitality
I was expecting a pun with Mando and Cologne. Both smell great.
Elige to Faze. Make it happen
instead of
@@elem_ntfrozen or rain I guess
Either faze pulls out a miracle cologne run out of nowhere like g2 did last year after bombing out of blast fall group; or I’m afraid ropz and frozen will pull a ‘stabbi’ on karrigan and jump ship immediately afterwards
Thorin i hope u never stop doing content, ill watch u forever
best cs talkshow atm
The wonderful sentiment came from Maui’s stream
The thing with w0nderful is that he's inconsistent vs the good teams. In the grand finals of the 2 tournaments that Navi won this year and the Blast finals they lost in he's played bad.
Thank you to Mando for sponsoring this episode!
Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code POINTS at www.shopmando.com! #mandopod
The expiration date on this title just reached its final day. G2 humiliated Spirit and i was rooting for Spirit. I just prefer to hold on to reality before my preferences.
With faze besides individual levels and strats their issue could be theres no more secondary caller
I feel like a video going through every faze team iteration could be very interesting, is this the weakest player for player but strongest team play?
no talk of g2, not a real podcast
>no Hooxi
>no g2
Simple as
You Will Never Be a Real Podcast
Why is it that esports dominance is always shorter than sports dominance? I get that there are leagues and many other factors but the best player is rarely in peak form for as long as sports athletes.
Is that true though? Is sports dominance that different?
@@ElementalDj yeah, in lots of sports if you are "dominant" for 1year people just call it a good season, meanwhile in esports if you manage to dominate for a whole year people will already have a debate for best team ever
Whats up with Maniac's echo
ik this video was filmed like before liquid beat navi twice, but its funny how thorin and maniac was talking about how navi inferno map 3 is pretty good but then liquid beat navi (close game though) twice on inferno map 3
spirit is definetly the number 1 team in the world, keep in mind every big event they have attended they made playoffs and also convincingly, and the only teams they have lost to is faze, mouz, vitality and g2 in their honey moon, and they have a winning record against navi not only in groupstage but in finals
aged like milk
YES YES YES. I have always wanted EliGe as a potential rain replacement in the future
I used to say yekindar and xertion were the ones, but elige could work I suppose
Frozen. At last someone said it
Nothing wrong with Frozen
@@bigstrawberry4552 he's a baiter so there's essentially two baiters in FaZe, him and Ropz.
@@elizabethmurigi1131 nah, you just jumped on that train with people who say this.
@@bigstrawberry4552 Frozen is almost blameF level baiter. Ropz is also a baiter, but he plays anchor roles so it's not that detrimental to the team to be passive.
@@bigstrawberry4552I'm not stupid mate. Last year he was 12th in HLTV ranking but people expected him to be in the top 10. I'm pretty sure you don't watch games so I'll recommend you look for Striker and Prof explanation. He had the second highest save rate after BlameF. Frozen is a good rifler but people overlook lots of details in his game.
47:00 maniac's thing about its cologne and faze will rise is not entirely true, that was true with the faze with twistzz (im remembering them losing dallas and springfinal and roobet cup and people folding on them but then they win cologne and shut the haters up)
Same in 2023 when they lost many events in a row and thenwin Sydney
Holy shit 1 tourney and now not only is monesy not the best player in the world, but not even the best in G2. Like what the fuck kinda take is that. And Maniac nodded in agreeance.
For my money faze is looking especially bad just because of how cutthroat the scene is right now, we really dont have one team thats had all its pieces line up to be dominant but we have about half a dozen other teams vying for that spot and a hell of a lot of teams that can easily cause an upset if youre having an off period so all it takes is faze to show a bit of vulnerability in their individuals and they drop straight from mob boss to getting shanked in an alleyway by ninjas in pyjamas
So basically Thorin's reasoning for calling the 2023 major a fluke win for Na'Vi is their inconsistency?
By that logic he should've called every major win by an inconsistent team and that has not been the case, did he call s1mple winning the major a fluke? Nope, was Na''Vi dominating? Nope.
It's just that this line up wasn't given the credit they deserve simply because w0nderful came to replace s1mple, and jL coming fresh out of Tier 2 to Tier 1 CS, so the analysts are the ones who underrated them. It's very obvious.
There is no way you used Stockholm 2021 as an example wtf
@@ElementalDj I'm just applying his logic into a cross reference and highlighting the inconsistencies in it, (pun intended).
g2 vs spirit final, g2 will not drop game
Thumbnail of LDLC Maniac 2015 and Thorin casting in 1894 as they Glaze NaVi/Spirit no ty
imagine if NAVI kicked iM then they might even win a major and other big tournaments
You mean win second major in the same year? Let alone they have literally won the 2 biggest events so far in 2024. I would say shangai and cologne are the biggest events left this year :)
@@matiasyli-kokko21 EWC ain't bigger than Kato but probably third biggest, maybe fourth after Blast Spring
@@matiasyli-kokko21cant remember them winning kato. An event without proper big crowd cant be considered really "big"
@@RobertCalinescu fair enough
@@vedser i will come back to this comment in december! Hating is cool and all but atleast. Back it up somehow😂
Saying spirit is #1 is fucking insane have you not been watching their games lol they look exposed. No way they're#1 and i doubt they will be this yr
For anyone wondering on their thoughts on Navi, it's the same old farted opinions, narratives and dogmas coming from the same relic dinozaurs from way back the beginning of the year.
"Overperformance"
"Fluke"
"B1t and Wonderful are all the firepower"
"Aleksi and Blade are the only reason they're competitive"
"No star players"
"Won x, y, z events but won't win the next 5 in a row"
"Kick iM"
Basically, ancient pseudo table "analysts" trying their hardest to keep up outdated, tired, irrelevant, cliched narratives, always making asymmetrical assessments about Navi compared to other teams, holding them to a standard they don't hold any other team at, always moving the goalposts after every win.
Save yourself the time, dislike, go back in your feed, hover the video, press options -> don't recommend channel. That's what I am about to do, see you never, Last Free Nation Counter-Strike comment section.
Holy shit this is one of the most butthurt comments ive ever seen on a CS podcast video hahahahaha
thanks I will do exactly as you said
One look at the comment history and the guys who agree is all I need lol, Thorin could do an entire 2 hours complimenting Na'Vi individually and as a team and somehow mfers will hear it in one ear and out the other
Karrigan is the next hooxi.
Good strats wont save you from being benched if you cant get any sort of impact inside the server. Might be time to start asking when should karrigan hang it up n start coaching. Imagine twists was still at faze and they dropped karrigan and picked up frozen having twists IGL, could have been interesting seeing how liquid has done at blast groups. Not saying karrigan is as bad as hooxi was but its getting to the point where the convo could be had with some of his games where hes been completely absent.
...and queue the very next snake n banter episode. 👌👌👌