COOL Quotient Rule Proof

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  • čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
  • In this video, I give two super neat proofs of the quotient rule, one using multiplication, and the other one using logarithms. Enjoy!
    Quotient Rule Proof: • Quotient Rule Proof
    Quotient Rule in Greek: • Neat Quotient Rule Proof
    Quotient Rule in Russian: • Cool Quotient Rule Proof
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Komentáře • 64

  • @nedmerrill5705
    @nedmerrill5705 Před 2 lety +36

    I always hated that quotient rule and was always trying to finesse my way around it in my Calc I class. I used the product rule on
    (f/g)' = (f * 1/g)' when I could.

    • @Apollorion
      @Apollorion Před 2 lety +6

      Let's give that a 'try', again..
      spoiler alert:
      (f/g|)' = (f * 1/g)' = f'/g + f*(-1/g^2)*g' = (f'g-fg')/g^2
      This, besides the product rule, also applies the -chain rule- Chen Lu, but does _not_ use implicit differentiation.

    • @PiR2InTheUSA
      @PiR2InTheUSA Před 2 lety +1

      @@Apollorion Exactly how I've done it. Seems more straightforward and one less rule to remember.

  • @justintroyka8855
    @justintroyka8855 Před 2 lety +9

    Very cool video! When I was teaching Calc 3 last year, I learned that the multivariable chain rule can be used to prove the product rule and the quotient rule. Here's how it works with the product rule:
    Define f(u,v) = uv. Then ∂f/∂u = v and ∂f/∂v = u.
    If u = u(x) and v = v(x), then by multivariable chain rule
    d/dx [f(u,v)] = (∂f/∂u)(du/dx) + (∂f/∂v)(dv/dx)
    = vu' + uv'.
    Quotient rule is the exact same thing but with f(u,v) = u/v.

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety +2

      That’s suuuuuper nice, thank you!!!

  • @citizencj3389
    @citizencj3389 Před 2 lety +2

    Never thought I'd subscribe to not just one but TWO math channels. This is a good medium to release and embrace my inner math nerd.

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety

      Nice!!! What’s the other one?

    • @citizencj3389
      @citizencj3389 Před 2 lety

      @@drpeyam Blackandredpen. Chen Lu.

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety

      Best channels ever!!!

  • @md2perpe
    @md2perpe Před 2 lety +17

    In the second proof you can take Ln |f/g| = Ln |f| - Ln |g| and not have problems with signs. Remember that (Ln |x|)' = 1/x for both x0.

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety +8

      Oh yes, trueeee!! f might still be 0 though

    • @Apollorion
      @Apollorion Před 2 lety +1

      @@drpeyam .. as can g
      Edit: but of course the values of x for which g=0 are therefore not part of the domain of f/g, and henceforth also not part of the domain of (f/g)' so this does not matter.

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety +5

      No g can’t be 0 anyway, since otherwise f/g is undefined

  • @nnnn0596
    @nnnn0596 Před 2 lety +4

    It was very useful thanks sir

  • @skylardeslypere9909
    @skylardeslypere9909 Před 2 lety +2

    I like the second way of doing it because you don't even need the product rule for this proof while you do in the first one.

  • @emanuellandeholm5657
    @emanuellandeholm5657 Před 2 lety +1

    Loved the second method Dr Peyam!

  • @theproofessayist8441
    @theproofessayist8441 Před 2 lety +1

    Ah goodness logarithms are just inverses of exponentials but their algebra property laws are so very useful and beautiful!

  • @jflopezfernandez
    @jflopezfernandez Před 2 lety +1

    This is awesome! I can't believe I made it through three years of calculus and real analysis and I never saw this!

  • @buxeessingh2571
    @buxeessingh2571 Před 2 lety +1

    I always hated the first derivation because part of the conclusion of the quotient rule is the existence of the derivative h=f/g. When you turn this into f=gh, you assume the existence of h'.
    Now, as a memory trick, it is fine.

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety

      It’s so pretty though!!!

  • @alainrogez8485
    @alainrogez8485 Před 2 lety +3

    I used another method when I was young by using a small thing noted as Delta of x and Delta of y, which are small variations of x and y.

    • @PackSciences
      @PackSciences Před 2 lety

      Could you please show your method? I wonder whether it brings something to the proof of if its equivalent to the known proofs.

    • @alainrogez8485
      @alainrogez8485 Před 2 lety +4

      @@PackSciences It would be difficult. I will try :
      y = f/g
      y + Dy = (f+Df)/(g+Dg)
      Dy = (f+Df)/(g+Dg) - y
      Dy = (f+Df)/(g+Dg) - f/g
      Dy = (g(f+Df) - f(g+Dg))/g(g+Dg)
      Dy = (gDf - fDg)/g(g+Dg)
      Dy/Dx = (gDf/Dx - fDg/Dx)/g(g+Dg)
      When Dx goes to 0, Df/Dx goes to f', Dg/Dx to g' and Dy/Dx to y' and Dg goes to 0.
      y' = (gf' - fg')/g^2

    • @PackSciences
      @PackSciences Před 2 lety

      @@alainrogez8485 Great

  • @Supervergil1
    @Supervergil1 Před 2 lety

    Hey Dr Peyam, thanks for sharing this video. I've been looking into your channel for 2 days now, and I've found that unlike most Math channels where the channel owners are Math PhDs/Teachers who end up doing videos about algebraic questions/ basic math stuff that simply aren't "interesting" (to me of course), you actually do COLLEGE level math in your channel, providing interesting insights in the world of high level mathematics. I've never found any other channel who does this in this high level, so you've earned my subscription, Keep going!

  • @KennethVernelen
    @KennethVernelen Před 2 lety

    I was once taught the following:
    (f/g)' = (f * g^(-1))'
    = f' * g^(-1) + f * (g^(-1))' ( Product rule )
    = f' * g^(-1) + f * (- g^(-2) * g') ( (1/g)' )
    = (f' * g - f * g')/g^2 ( Common denominator )
    I like your second proof a lot since it bypasses the product rule.
    But I prefer this obe over the first rule since it briefly uses some simple rules.

  • @henk-ottolimburg7947
    @henk-ottolimburg7947 Před 2 lety +3

    This is really cool. I always forget whether it's g'f or f'g to start with.
    Calculating with g^-1 is also an option, but this is nice, too.

    • @PackSciences
      @PackSciences Před 2 lety +1

      A mnemotechnic is that the bottom part vehiculates the negative sign (g) in the final expression as (1/g)' would.
      Hence, it is -g'f and not -f'g.

    • @gamerdio2503
      @gamerdio2503 Před 2 lety

      I always remember "Low d high minus high d low, square the bottom and away we go," as in, denominator times derivative of numerator minus the reverse

    • @sharpnova2
      @sharpnova2 Před 2 lety

      @@PackSciences sorry i left my multiphase quantum vehiculator at home

  • @ZipplyZane
    @ZipplyZane Před 2 lety +3

    For number 1, I'm pretty sure you can do it in reverse, proving the product rule with the quotient rule. Just do the same steps in reverse.

    • @ZipplyZane
      @ZipplyZane Před 2 lety +2

      I was going to go back and edit that post, but since it got a like, I won't. But I did finally have the time to sit down and prove the product rule given the quotient rule, thus showing the product rule is NOT more powerful than the quotient rule. Here is my proof:
      Let f and g be differentiable functions, and let h = fg. Thus f = h/g, and f' = (h/g)'. By the quotient rule (which is given), f' = (h'g - g'h)/(g^2). By substitution, we get:
      f' = (h'g - g'fg)/(g^2)
      f' = g(h' - g'f)/(g^2) (factor)
      f' = (h' - g'f)/g (simplification)
      f'g = h' - g'f (division on both sides)
      h' = f'g + g'f (addition on both sides)
      Then, by substitution once again, we get
      (fg)' = f'g + g'f, which is our product rule.

    • @cobaltcloud64
      @cobaltcloud64 Před 2 lety +1

      @ZipplyZane By assuming the quotient rule as true the argument kinda falls apart.
      Let's say that "P" is the statement "The product rule is true" and "Q" is "The quotient rule is true" (both including that the functions to which they're applied are differentiable).
      By stating that "the quotient rule is given" (Q is true by assumption) you only managed to prove that "if Q is true, P must also be true", or "Q→P".
      The video shows a proof for "P→Q" (which is indeed the same as yours, but in reverse), so we have (P→Q)&(Q→P), otherwise written as "P iff Q".
      What is needed now is a proof for either of them that doesn't rely on the other one being true (which would just be equivalent to P→Q or Q→P, which we've already established).
      The point is that you can prove the product rule without relying on the quotient rule, and - as far as I know - you can't do it the other way around.
      Stating that the product rule is a "stronger" theorem just means that it's the one holding up both of them.
      Another way of saying this is: you can only come at the conclusion that Q is true only by first saying that P is.
      I like imagining logical implications as "roads" that get you from a "city" to another. In this sense, you can't travel to Q without passing by P, thus making the road that connects them the only one leading to Q. P, on the other hand, has many more roads coming and going from it, like some sort of metropolitan city. In other words, P is more general than Q.
      If you can find a proof for Q that doesn't need proving P first, you'll be right to say that neither of them is stronger since both of them have proofs indipendent from eachother's.
      The same holds for the chain rule.

  • @michaelgolub2019
    @michaelgolub2019 Před 2 lety +2

    Chen Lu and Caution Lu 🙂

  • @Idk-hp3oo
    @Idk-hp3oo Před 2 lety +2

    We just had to prooft the quotient rule in calc 2 and it was explicitly stated that the first method you showed was invalid since you are assuming that h’(x) exists which you are trying to show (same goes for the second although such an approach never came up)

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety +4

      lol, they must be fun at parties

    • @ZannaZabriskie
      @ZannaZabriskie Před 2 lety

      If I understand:
      The classic proof states that IF f', g', exist AND g != 0 THEN (i) (f/g)' exists AND (ii) (f/g)' =...]
      Our first proof is valid, but moves the thesis (i) among the hypothesis.
      [ I'm the serious lonely guy at the parties 🤣]

  • @hroseman
    @hroseman Před 2 lety +1

    Easier? Let f and 1/g be functions. Use the product rule and the chen lu.

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety

      Nah, that is cheating, I feel 1/g is kinda like f/g anyway

  • @costelnica3988
    @costelnica3988 Před 2 lety

    Respect!

  • @Kdd160
    @Kdd160 Před 2 lety +6

    Use The Chen Lu!!!

  • @danebryant2535
    @danebryant2535 Před 2 lety

    How about :(f/g)’=(f*g-1)’= f’*g-1 + f(-g-2g’)=(f’g-fig’)/g2. Just straight application of the product rule.

  • @DaveScottAggie
    @DaveScottAggie Před 2 lety +1

    This is nice - 2 different ways. Whenever I forget what the quotient rule, I turn it into a product like you did. I am curious -- Are you saying product "loop" and chain "loop"?

  • @Apollorion
    @Apollorion Před 2 lety

    Applying the ln, implicit differentiation and the chen lu can also proof us another very generally applied differentiation rule:
    ln(x^u)=u*ln(x) => (ln(x^u))'=u/x=(1/(x^u))*(x^u)' (x^u)'=ux^(u-1)
    Seems familiar?

  • @mathadventuress
    @mathadventuress Před 2 lety +2

    Isn’t it just a product rule ? F’g-1+g-1’/f? :D

  • @gokulakrishnan8072
    @gokulakrishnan8072 Před 2 lety +2

    Smash the like button...This is so cool...yeah......

  • @ZipplyZane
    @ZipplyZane Před 2 lety

    The ones I'm wanting to eventually do are to prove the product rule and/or quotient rule from the definition of the derivative. I've still not quite gotten it. But I hope to figure it out without being told. I did prove the power rule myself without help.
    I'm also curious if there's a way to prove the ~chain rule~ chen lu from the definition of the derivative. I have an idea of how to do it with implicit differentiation, but the only "proof" I know of that uses a dummy variable and cancelling (i.e. I use dy/dt and dx/dt and multiply both by dt to get rid of the denominator).

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety

      There are videos about this on my channel

  • @sugarfrosted2005
    @sugarfrosted2005 Před 2 lety

    The sign error rule.

  • @GUTY1729
    @GUTY1729 Před 2 lety

    HERMOSO

  • @maxamedaxmedn6380
    @maxamedaxmedn6380 Před 2 lety

    It is called the qu shing lu

  • @pooi-hoongchan8680
    @pooi-hoongchan8680 Před 2 lety

    Dr Peyam is more brilliant than Gauss.

  • @mohammedal-haddad2652
    @mohammedal-haddad2652 Před 2 lety

    Dr. I am PI: How cool is that?
    Me: it's super cool.

  • @michellauzon4640
    @michellauzon4640 Před 2 lety

    We call that consistency. This is what Godel's second theorem is all about.

  • @michaelz2270
    @michaelz2270 Před 2 lety

    If you really want to go hardcore Chen Lu, view f(x)/g(x) = u(f(x), g(x)) where u(x,y) = x/y. Then the multivariable chain rule gives the derivative as u_x ( f(x), g(x)) * f'(x) + u_y(f(x),g(x)) * g'(x) = f'(x)/g(x) - (f(x) / g(x)^2) g'(x) = (g(x)f'(x) - f(x)g'(x)) / (g(x))^2

    • @drpeyam
      @drpeyam  Před 2 lety

      That’ll be part of my future video

  • @cbbuntz
    @cbbuntz Před 2 lety

    lou > rule

  • @malouselle8031
    @malouselle8031 Před 2 lety +1

    Less goooo

  • @akshatjangra4167
    @akshatjangra4167 Před 2 lety

    QUOTIENT LUUU!!!!! YEAH!!!!

  • @stefankrimbacher7917
    @stefankrimbacher7917 Před 2 lety +1

    You can cancle f one step before.

  • @geoffrygifari3377
    @geoffrygifari3377 Před 2 lety

    Why are you guys so mean to quotient rule?