When Did the Mahabharata War Happen? by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 10. 2021
- The date of the Mahabharata War (also known as the Kurukshetra War), if it was a factual event, is not known. Various proposals have been made as to when this famous conflict of ancient India took place. In this review, Dr. Miano looks at a theory offered by Nilesh Oak and evaluates its merits.
CORRECTION: In the video, it is said that Nilesh Oak posits 5651 BCE as the date of the Mahabharata War, when he actually says 5561 BCE.
► FIND THE BOOK HERE: amzn.to/3DYGXO1
IF YOU'RE A BOOK LOVER:
Unlimited reading with Kindle membership: amzn.to/3AHsVzj
Unlimited audiobooks with Audible membership: amzn.to/3wuoeFT
►DOWNLOAD Professor Miano's free e-booklet: "Why Ancient History Matters":
mailchi.mp/a402112ea4db/why-a...
►SUBSCRIBE to the World of Antiquity CZcams Channel for great travel videos about ancient ruins and ancient history museums.
► SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL
Supporters get access to behind-the-scenes videos, early-release videos, course discounts and more! / worldofantiquity
FTC Disclaimer Notice: Some of the links here may be affiliate links, meaning that if you click on them and purchase something on another website, I get a small commission. It doesn't cost you any extra, but I thought you should know! It does help support the channel.
Professor Miano's handy guide for learning, "How to Know Stuff," is available here:
www.amazon.com/How-Know-Stuff...
Follow Professor Miano on social media:
►FACEBOOK: / drdavidmiano
►TWITTER: / drdavidmiano
►INSTAGRAM: / drmiano
This channel= discorery channel for kids, your whole narrative is the typical CABLE TV 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Why don't you bring the real Mahabharat from Geeta press
Where is the archeological evidence?
@@TingTong2568 in sinauli
Do you know Nakshatra meaning?
Answer: No I don't know, I don't need to know but I'm sure this book is based on assumptions.
Nakshatra means constellations
🎉😂
I have been a physicist for over 45 years, and the one major rule I have found for scientific research is that one has to value being correct above getting any particular result. To go a step farther, if one has a desired outcome in a research program, this creates a real moral hazard for the scientist. Science is about understanding the world, not validating your world view.
Prove it.
Can you prove it scientifically? 45 years of hunch is no good in your own words.
Very true.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
-Max Planck
If someone is trying to do science to validate their a priori presuppositions, then they should probably go do something else. 🙃😅
Please read the book before presenting your view (word salad). You will learn who is enforcing their word view.
Are you a postmodernist Physicist?
I could not make a head or tail out of what is your point!
Apparently, Dr. Miano did. Maybe he can explain what you are trying to say.
Wow Nilesh Oak wants you to have a discussion in which you asked him first in comment section, go on if you're not biased towards Mahabharata
czcams.com/video/vT8WTClwOqY/video.html
These archeological things czcams.com/video/vit-i7WI75E/video.html
did that debate happen?
@@VIJAYzk still waiting , WoA is a confirmed stooge of Thapar LMAO
@@buddha9715not just thappar there’s levels to this beyond our imagination. Unless we all try to protect ourselves we’re doomed
Nakshatra system of time was there even in Ramayana
He ( Miano) does not know Ramayana.
Did that really happen?
@@ancientminds199 yup it really happened hundreds of archaeological excavations and findings have proved Ramayana and Mahabharata happened
@@ancientminds199yes, even my birth is recorded in nakshtra also known as kundali + many things.
@@ancientminds199most Indians's birth is recorded in nakshtra they are born &, have kundali made out of it
Mr. David Miano,
I have tried to answer few of your questions about your assumptions made by Nilesh Oak, and I also have few questions which I expect an answer from you if possible.
Few comments about the stuff you mentioned as assumptions by Mr. Nilesh Oak.
Q1. Why did the people in antient time mentioned the astronomical observations?
- It is the tradition followed even today in India that every major event will be recorded based on planatary positions, it is called kundali.
Almost every practicing hindu will have the kundali of his birth, marriage etc.,
- Every major event is performed after finding an muhurtha (auspicious time) based on planetary positions, even all 100+ rocket launch for space mission in India happened on a muhurtha.
- the same way of finding auspicious time for all important events is mentioned in all the Hindu texts of Ramayana, Mahabharata and other stories.
Q2. Astronomy was invented is much later, how they were able to mention the astronomical observations in antient period?
- Please read the books called Surya Siddantha, Shata patha Brahmana.
Which speaks about the astronomical knowledge of antient Indian's, which also speaks about the pole star which changed with the change in inclination of earth's axis (which happens once in 26000 years) and also a detailed chapter on how to make astronomical instruments/devices for accurate readings of planetary positions. The antiquity of the book is said to be about 3000 years old as per Wikipedia, but it is debated to much older as the last pole start change happened about 5000 years ago which is mentioned in the book.
Q3. Why is Mahabharatha assumed as History and not a mythological story?
- Vedas are said to be the oldest extant texts/documents available in the world so far, among which Rigveda is said to be the written around 2000-4500 years ago, the section which contains the Mahabharata section called "Itihasa" which means History in Sanscrit.
If you are aware, the position based number system using Zero which is being used world wide was invented in India, even before that there was base 10 number system with concept of zero was in use as per bakshali manuscript found.
Oldest extant text of the world is from India.
So about 5000 years ago Indian had the knowledge of planetary knowledge(Surya Siddantha), they had the tradition of documenting events(Vedas).
They had knowledge about medicine and Surgery (Ayurveda).
My questions to you.
1. Do you think all these knowledge of astronomy, mathematics, scripting develops overnight? If it can be done 5000 years ago, what makes you think it cannot happen 7000 years ago?
2. Why do you want to think that everyone like to make a fake claim like the Western people made while spreading their religion using fairytale like genesis etc., ?
3. Did you find any of the astronomical observations mentioned in the book as false?
4. Did you find any of the supporting evidence mentioned in the book is baseless or non conclusive?
5. Why do you think a Chemical engineer cannot become a historian based on his interst?
If you really think you are happy to debate and analyse the facts in his book, we can try and arrange for a live meet between you and Mr. Nilesh Oak, please let me know if you are happy with it.
Thank you for your comment. In answer to your questions:
*1. Do you think all these knowledge of astronomy, mathematics, scripting develops overnight? If it can be done 5000 years ago, what makes you think it cannot happen 7000 years ago?*
It doesn't matter whether something CAN happen. It matters whether it DID happen. And the only way to know if something did happen is if there is evidence for it. There are many possibilities for what could happen, but we do not know which possibility is correct until we can verify it.
*2. Why do you want to think that everyone like to make a fake claim like the Western people made while spreading their religion using fairytale like genesis etc., ?*
I don't think everyone likes to make a fake claim. But people are wrong more often than they are right. They could be wrong because they are trying to deceive, but usually it's because they simply don't know.
*3. Did you find any of the astronomical observations mentioned in the book as false?*
I am not sure what you mean by "false," but I found a lot of them not to be observations of natural phenomena.
*4. Did you find any of the supporting evidence mentioned in the book is baseless or non conclusive?*
Yes.
*5. Why do you think a Chemical engineer cannot become a historian based on his interst?*
He can become a historian, if he studies to become a historian. But Mr. Oak has not studied to become a historian.
P.S. What is your evidence for the age of the Surya Siddhanta? Sanskrit scholars say it was written in the 4th or 5th century CE.
@@WorldofAntiquity So are you fine for a debate with Nilesh Oak on the stuffs that you are not convinced and the topics on which you want to challenge him?
It is always good to get clarity, that make things more clear to the world.
@@umeshshankara Sure, he can invite me onto his channel to debate him at any time.
@@WorldofAntiquity Do accept the invite when he does invite you. Make sure some "unforeseen work" does not occupy your schedule. 😃😃
Also to add … you are discarding many of Mr.Oak’s points stating that these assumptions(archeological evidences) are not proven or available. I would ask you to compare the funds allocated to Egypt’s archeology and compare it to India’s archeological funds. The absence of evidence means .. someone tried to find evidence and did not find anything. Here the case is a bit different…. No one has every tried to dig out all the sites mentioned maybe due to political or economic history of India. If in future such a project is undertaken and the results of that are negative only then one can claim that there is no evidence. Here no investigation was done .. then how can you conclude that there is no evidence.
Each and every place mentioned in the Mahabharata exists today. Lakshagraha, kurukshetra, gurugram, indraprasta…. and many more. And they are located as described in the text… time taken to travel between them match up to the time taken today…
You keep on saying that non of these advances in science and technology are possible so far back… why not?
I looked up zero in Wikipedia … and the fact that zero came from india first is mentioned after scrolling down 200 times… first things mentioned are how it came to English .. from French etc etc … how is that relevant and why is that always the way things are looked at…. Some centuries later someone will look up current “evidences” and this fact will also be lost in antiquity or retold with so many layers that the truth will simply be lost …
It's not 5651 BC , it's 5561 BCE.
He couldn't even get that right.
Nah it happened 5k year ago around 3k bce
I was hoping for better argument against the book.
I think he's aware of these basic things and yet provides available evidence.
It's yet a reasonable book. Of course more research is required, the assumptions should be validated independently. That will hopefully(or not) over a period of time, just like any new field.
Thanks for the review.
But the assumptions he mentioned cannot really be verified and hence they are assumptions. If they could be verified, why would they be assumptions in the first place? What is wrong with assumptions that the Mahabharata happened, or that the Astronomers were correct in their validation, if you don't assume these, then how would you proceed to find the timeline? What this guy is saying is that just don't do it.
Simple
Because its And assumption
I would like to know morw supporting atchaeological evidences about Mahabharata war either
If you believe that Vashishth was just a sage then can you explain us whether Vashishth and Arundhati were characters of Mahabharata or not?Why you are believing that Nakshatra system were not developed at the time he is referring to? Are you just taking it for granted that Nakshatra in Indian astronomy were not developed till that time? You said that you found hard to match and understand the reference he gave you for claims he made. If you were not able to understand and match the observations then how you were able to conclude that whatever he claimed was totally wrong?
Because lack of clarity is also taken in lieu of evidence
I put in the work to find the references. Just because it was made more difficult, that didn't stop me from doing it.
On the Nakshatra system, historians base their conclusions on evidence. There is no evidence for a fully-developed Nakshatra system at that time. This doesn't mean it didn't exist. It just means Mr. Oak made that assumption without evidence.
@@WorldofAntiquity It would jaVe been better if you would have shared the references shared by him which you felt were wrong based on the facts you know. It will help people in understanding your perspective better. You said that no where it's mentioned that Nakshatra system didn't exist at that time doesn't mean it was not there. I agree with your point - "Mr. Oak assumed that the discussion was about Nakshatra" is true and nothing else should be supported by proper reasoning. But in that case you should have also explained why you factually believe that Arundhati and Vashistha event is not an astronomical event. Because if you will try to know about Vashistha then he as a person predates Mahabharata time. So without proper factual explanation many people will feel that you are also giving your perspective by making an assumption. I believe that you really are seeker of true history and you will surely provide facts and details to prove your point. Thanks
@@HaritDoshi *It would jaVe been better if you would have shared the references shared by him which you felt were wrong based on the facts you know.*
I didn't say his references were wrong.
*"Mr. Oak assumed that the discussion was about Nakshatra" is true and nothing else should be supported by proper reasoning. But in that case you should have also explained why you factually believe that Arundhati and Vashistha event is not an astronomical event.*
I brought up Arundhati and Vashishtha as an example of Mr. Oak using similes as astronomical events. I did not bring it up to show there was no Nakshatra system.
*Because if you will try to know about Vashistha then he as a person predates Mahabharata time. So without proper factual explanation many people will feel that you are also giving your perspective by making an assumption.*
I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I did not comment on the historicity of Vashishtha. I said only that he appeared as a character in the Mahabharata. That is common knowledge.
@@WorldofAntiquity If you say that references were not wrong then how you can prove that what he said was wrong. I border prove the claims made by Mr. Oak is wrong you should prove that his references are wrong or wrongly interpreted.
I have always wondered about the name "Minoan." I understand we don't really know what they called themselves, I understand how Evans called them Minoans and the name stuck; however, I don't understand how historians and archaeologists never seriously challenged this name at the time...or since really...when even in Evan's time we might have had potential place names for the island from other cultures who had some contact with them. For example Egyptians called the island Keftiu and the Akkadians called the island Kaptara. Since both languages have a similar word for the place name, wouldn't the "K + vowel + F/P + T" name construction seem like a good place to start searching for what they may have called themselves? I been looking for current projects or specialists for this topic and I just can't seem to find any serious work being down to locate what they called themselves. Do you know, or could you recommend, any works, names, or projects?
I would have to look it up, but your construction seems reasonable.
Without physical written evidence from the culture itself about how they named themselves then all we can do is assume. Take for example the ancient "Thiuda" who was named "German" by the Romans and all cultures that speak English today still call them German today. They were named "Alleman" by the Kelts and are still today in French and Spanish. The Fins named them "Saksa" and still do today. Other Scandinavians named them "Tysk" as of today. The Italians name them "Tedesco" today and the Polish and Russian (other Slavic) named them "Niemiecki". The Dutch or people from the Netherlands and Flemish-speaking from Belgium name them "Duits" which comes closest to what they call themselves today and that is "Deutsch".
That is 7 different names for the very same culture all from neighbouring countries. :) Which one would you pick if there was 0 archaeological evidence to find in Germany how they named themselves? :)
@@DunkelblauerMB Not exactly....in your example you are speaking about when we have situations with multiple native words being used by different cultures and languages in order to describe the same thing. In that situation, I understand and agree with the point you are making there.
However, this is a different situation. What I am talking about in this theory is that we have multiple examples of different cultures and languages with limited language influences on each other....all using very similar non-native words to describe the same thing.
If they made up their own words and they were drastically different I would agree with you. But what we have are them similar words, which have no other occurrence or connection to their language, except for referencing the people we know as the Minoans.
The question then becomes...why? Why are these different languages and cultures all using similar non-native words to describe the same thing? Why are they similar? How could they all have adopted these similar words when referencing a specific region and group of people?
While I doubt there is ever going to be the proverbial 'smoking gun' that says, "We encountered a group of people (Minoans) who call themselves......," I challenge that we do not have to. There is a measure of universal human nature and experience that we can use to create an educated guess here.
What if the reason they are all learning, adopting, and using similar words to describe a specific group and region....is simply that's what those people are calling or using themselves? We do this in the modern world, why would the ancient world be any different?
@@unarealtaragionevole I understand absolutely what you mean. 'Thiuda' means something like 'People' or 'Folk' and this is how they named themself when tribes were working together. All though introducing themself separately to their neighbours they used their tribal names. The Fins were in constant quarrelling with the Thiuda tribe with the given name 'Saksa' The French the Thiuda tribe with the given name 'Allemani'
And as of today, it is this tribal name that got stuck for millennia and is still used to name the entire modern nation.
I understand the educated guess from a geographical viewpoint, with Tysk from the north, Duits from the west and, Tedesco from the south. One can come to the conclusion they likely would have called themself something similar to this.
'Niemiecki' is a word from the Slavic language that could be translated as 'Incomprehensible' That one is off the book, no people would name themselves like this.
Now Crete is a lot smaller than Ancient Tribal Germania, but still large enough to house tribal settlements with their own given name. It likely was the seafaring tribes of Crete having contact with the outside world and also introducing themself with their tribal name.
I guess you would need quite some historical evidence that points to a similar name to get to a properly educated guess.
Maybe they called themselves "Aigaîos"?
@@DunkelblauerMB Well that's the thing...we actually do have historical evidence from multiple reliable sources. We have several papyri and tablets from both the Egyptians and the Akkadians who coexisted and had regular contact with the Minoans for several hundred years. And they always use the same words to describe these people. They knew who they were and where they were from.
That's why I originally asked if there is any serious research that is trying to work the problem backwards? While we are waiting for Linear A to be deciphered, we know the languages of the cultures around them and who had contact and business with them....but I can't find any type of research that approaches the problem from this direction.
Also we cannot confuse the Minoans with other cultures. For example, a lot of people confuse the Minoans for the Mycenaeans, and while it's true their cultures overlapped at the end, and Mycenaean culture adopted many Minoan aspects; they were not the same cultures. Most evidence to date indicates that the Minoans had a pretty centralized government, and acted as a single unit with their global economics and geopolitics. It's not like in later Mycenae, the Dark Ages, or the birth of early Greece were there are smaller city-states or kingdoms acting independently. Now I want to put a very big asterisk here, cause I know there are a few historians who believe they did have an early form of city-state with king controlled palaces. But there is equally if not more evidence that indicates these palaces were just palaces of the authority and they had a centralized governmental system. This is one of those very controversial debates for some people. The truth is we don't know, and unless we translate Linear A and the Minoans tell us themselves, we are forced to speculate and debate.
And while all things are possible...I just know. I mean, when I try to put myself in the shoes of the Egyptians and Akkadians, I wonder if the risk would be worth it. Why would Egypt and Akkad risk problems with the Minoans by doing business with a small independent tribe and not one of the most powerful groups in the region. And more to the point, why would the Minoans who dominated all of the island this tribe would have come from, not to mention dominated the majority of the sea and the trade routes at this time...allow any small kingdom to exist and profit like that? Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? Eh.........LOL
Mr. Oak has some assumptions, sure, but your rejection to his statements are also based on your assumptions that there were no nakshatra study during 5k BCE. Whereas Indians believe that it was there much before Mahabharata times - during Ramayana times ~ 10k BCE.
I didn't say that there was no nakshatra. I said his theory is based on the assumption that there was.
@@WorldofAntiquity There is no scientific proof that Jesus existed ?
@@WorldofAntiquity There's written text transferred throughout ages. It was not written to prove anything to anyone about its occurrence neither Mahabharata tries to prove its genuinity.
Then go with what the text has to teach.
Also there is no scientific evidence that Moses, Jesus or Mohammed existed, because their stories were written much later for religious politics?
@@WorldofAntiquity we all heard what u said maybe u should keep urself updated or only if u r doing what britishers did down playing us like saying primitive n all those ,bringing stupid aryan invasion theory which has been proved wrong now cause west can't take it that there was a civilization which was much ahead of there time n west was no were close to them . Get more informed it's not 1700 hundreds or 20 th C.E
Good grief…
Hello Sir.
I want you to do a review of book by Vedveer Arya on the chronological of Indian History. As I'm sure you know that biblical timeline is limited in nature that is from 4000-6000 years.
His three books are -
1. Chronology of India : From Manu to Mahabharat
2. Chronology of India : From Mahabharat to Medieval Volume I
3. Chronology of India : From Mahabharat to Medieval Volume II
DO NOT ask him to review Hindu content. He is anti-Hindu. He is not the right person to do so. He will simply belittle it.
@@G-Man01niqa called all the things assumptions I have no prblm with him but History is basically Assumptions. Also Rig and Yajur Veda extensively mentions Jyotisha Shastra which deals with nakshatras so yeah and Mahabharata clearly happened post Composition of Rig Veda. Moreover Jyotish Shastra was one of the 6 prerequisites/vedangas to understand and learn the vedas
@@parameshwar3345 dumbooo jyotish shastra came from Greeks not from yajurveda or atharva veda. Read IAS history classes. Dumbooooo😂😂😂😂 na aand ka pata na gaamd ka, gyan khodega pure bramhand ka 😂😂😂
@@G-Man01"Everyone who doesn't agree with all aspects of our beliefs is anti-Hindu."
@@MrPeaceGuy54 nope just the guy that belittles it, this guy clearly set out to insult the author and the book and in doing so he appears highly biased. I am taking what this guy said with a grain of salt not because he's arguements are invalid but because he has a clear agenda.
I don't know whether the astronomical things can be taken into account! But the geographical descriptions are good. Especially of Central Asia.
Geographical descriptions of central Asia?
I would like to hear your opinion about the Serbian calendar, which now counts 7533 years
Sir, can you please let us know when tthe Nakshatra system was founded? Is there any reference you can provide?
The Nakshatra system is very old it is mentioned in the rigveda which can be said undisputedly said to be older than 5000 years. So it is not far-fetched to presume that the Nakshatra system was known during the Mahabharata period.
@@ecneicsPhD4554 in the interest of knowing the truth about antequity of Mahabharata events,, I would urge you to have a conversation face to face with Nilesh Oak. May be on your channel itself.
I think u can get answers to your questions in a video of - is surya sidhanta 12,000year old like TEDx video maybe i forgotten go check it out on yt bro👍 by Mr Nilesh oak
They will never understand it becsuse why would they want to? All the wrong that has been done by some of your folks "elite liberals" to hide the real truth behind the true world history so you can walk around preaching rest if the world with your assumptions and lie.
Watch nilesh oak sir
Interesting video. What do you think about the age of the book "Mahabharta " as per most accepted modern historians / archeologists (if applicable)?. From childhood I have been fining multiple dates like 5000 years old, 7000 😅, I don't know what's the actual age it would be great if you can answer that.
czcams.com/video/F-nNTGK0wFw/video.html
He already answered it in the video : 2:31
1500-1200 BCE
5561 BCE is a massive stretch, yes?
Answer is here: Please watch the whole series; Mahabarath happened in TamilNadu: czcams.com/play/PLZsrZkjp4835xjnMtsndM7MY34eoRcHyX.html
@@mrgyani definitely not 1500BC lol
It predates atleast 1000 years to that number
The assumptions that this man questions seems to be based on presumptions.
What do you mean ?
@@sid_eats_and_moves bakwas kr raha h, jawab nhi h iske pas
It is not a presumption to say that someone does not have adaquate evidence. That is simply a fact.
Are you speaking about the CZcamsr or the person who wrote the book?
I now hit thumbs up at the beginning of your vids. For me, this is a huge honor lol 💚 thanks we all need you in our lives ❤
Lovely. That's the quality of viewership he appreciates. Ones that don't think much
The basis of your such assumptions are based on the westerns fabricated history. and it seems you have actually already ignored Mahabharata as History and have already assumed that it is just a book of stories.
Forget about that now come down here to the scientific facts.
Do you know anything about "Saraswati" River, here you can't even say that there is no evidence.
Now, it is scientifically proven that this river was in the existence only before 10000 BCE. and goes up to 80000 BCE. the entire paleochannel still available. and many scientific research institutes has already proven its historical existence. (if you don't know, search on your own sources, you will find it).
The most ancient book "Rigveda" has mentioned this river as the grandest river. as -
अम्बितमे नदीतमे देवितमे सरस्वति (This means River Saraswati is greatest in Mother, River and Goddesses)
Now tell me just one thing, if Aryans brought all the Vedas and Sanskrit, why they will prey about a Indian river, which is already dried at least 8000 years ago? before their time?
why they mentioned the river like above "Slokas mentioned that "This is the great river"?
Time has gone to believe on fake western historians, and Alexendria librarian.
@@variablex6928 lol keep telling yourself that. Will do wonders
Continuing with my earlier comments on your conclusions there is a very fresh presentation by Dr.Raj Vedam even disputing the PIE.
This presentation is on a topic titled Ancient India and the vedas.This is presented as recently as 11th Mar. 2022[Dr.Raj Vedam RTF lecture]
What do you want to say i couldn't understand
@@rupendrasharma6291 about what?
my first reply is very clear.AIT/AMT is a fraud pereptrated by the british through max muller is very clear
@@rameshramanujamsrinivasan8678 provide proof that sanskrit and vedas existed in india befor 3500 bce that basically is AMT
@@rupendrasharma6291 The proof is in the life works of so many people,one of them being Dr.Raj Vedam who has done phenomenal amount of work using so many of the modern dating methodologies.You can go through all of them or even one of them.
Still you are convinced with Dr.Miano as of now i have not done any specific work.Once i do that i can hammer you with my personal work.
Till that time Dr.Raj Vedam's works are one of the proofs.
Thousands are available.
5 years ago Mr.Rajiv alhotra has talked in the presence of British parliamentarians asking them to officially say that this theory is a blatant lie perpetrsted by them for obvious reasons of proving Christianity is the ultimate.
There are more and more.
@@rupendrasharma6291 the river Saraswati is the proof.
Please can make the video about Jiroft/Aratta civilization? It's a hot topic.
Its good to educate people on how to think about things. It is evident that in opening up to learning, you become vulnerable to misinformation. So be careful on how you think before thinking about stuff.
In India there is a temple of 800 years old in which they found a carved person looking through telescope.but the actual invention of telescope was happened in 16th century which is later the building of the temple.
That depends if it was a telescope or not. It could have been an isolation cone for studying an area of sky over a fixed period of time. That would look like a telescope but wouldn't have the lenses.
Now you are saying it's a Telescope but did people say it was Telescope (or something similar to it) before the discovery of the telescope.
Now you can point at anything and it looks like this/that etc and make all kinds superstitious assumptions.
@@kasimshaikh3750 really ? In our temple we have Navagraha means 9 planets. From thousand year old temples to new temple you can see this. Do you know what? Even our scripts which is thousand of years old says about it and never stop with it and also even says what is colour of those planet. Mars as red, ( we call it as sevai mean red) Saturn as black ( Sani), etc...( Even today the God idols of Mars, Saturn etc have those respective colours in it). I just gave only one example. Another thing I will give too Ram's bridge which is dated nearly 7000 to 8000 year. This data is not only given by Indian. This is given by many foreigner geological survey and others too. It even perfectly fit with our scripts saying Ramayan ( where ram built bridge to srilanka ) is dated as same 8000 year. And Mahabharata which explained here is dated 5000 year before and 3000 year after Ramayana. Even Today you can see these stories all over world from Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, china to even Greek or middle East. Everything tells about these stories. Now say Do you think human had been civilized only before 4000 to 5000 years??😂. For information i just given very little example. There is many things to prove India had civilization way before.
@@santhoshv3028 but saturn is not black, its rings are actually pretty bright. and do the god of saturn has rings around him? if not then , well, its probabaly means something else, that we humans, in order to make some sense out of it, used the word "god" in it
@@shantanu556 dumbo you will never understand what i tried to explain 😂.
So this reviewer who thinks of himself as expert is rejecting most important thing here. Existence of planetary positions mentioned in the Mahabharata actually existed in 5561. Let’s assume that the Mahabharata war was a fiction and written later like he thinks. But how come a book written in different era have 200+ astronomical combinations which could exists only in year 5561? Doesn’t matter Mahabharata actually happened or not, doesn’t matter whether the people at that time had knowledge of advanced history or not.
But about observations of 200+ astronomical observations? And the truth that those could occur only during the mentioned period? No evidence of archeological doesn’t mean that something didn’t happen. For example we fail to find any archaeological proof that a human lived in any particular part doesn’t mean that no human lived there.
It is really funny that this “exfart” is rejecting existence of 200+ astronomical observations even though back testing proves that these observations could happen only in 5600 BC to 5500 BC.
When he says the The book was written later he doesn't mean that the original manuscript was written in the that time.
The version of mahabharata we have at the moment are from the gupta period.
We do not have the original copies of the text.
As for the astrological signs
We know for a fact that ancient Indians had knowledge of astronomy and the author of the later version could have simply calculated the position of star signs 5500 bce.
As an Indian person, THANK YOU! I want to learn something about Ancient India from the Vedic Period, but most videos I can find are stupid conspiracy theories. Personally, the time frame I choose would be the late 12th-very early 9th Centuries BCE, as since the Kurukshetra War is presented to have kingdoms from all over the Indian Subcontinent, Afghanistan, Iran, Central Asia, and even the Chinese and Ionian Greeks. Historically, Kingdoms start popping around this time. Also, the iron age in South India becomes more advanced, and it starts having governments, like it is depicted in the Mahabharata.
Your eagerness to learn about our history from the very people who distorted it and are ill-accomplished to talk about it shows how much mentally colonized you are. Let me tell you the so-called conspiracy theories you say have more truth about Indian history than the entire Western Indology Scholarship.
@Akhand Bharat I would really like to know your source for this 'attack', responsible for the AASI outliers in the BMAC.
Thank you some people with a brain this clown even made a video debunking aryan migration even though jatts and north east Europe share large amounts of steppe dna
I have a question for you. Aryabhatta dated mahabharta nearly 3000 years before his time. If actual war happend only 600 years before his time he would be surely aware of it as 600 years of time is not enough for something to turn into a mythological epic legnd.
@@rupendrasharma6291 Why is 600 years not enough lol
This is a childish review, examining a historical investigation as if it were a mathematical theorem. If we knew the exact circumstances, we would just anlayse those and not need any assumptions whatsoever. Oak has stated his assumptions and told us the implications. That's how even hard sciences proceed. For example, Newtonian physics or Big Bang Cosmology was based on certain assumptions. Those by definition could not be proved as "correct", which is why they are called assumptions. When further experimental knowledge brought them into question, we tweaked them, a little or a lot as needed, and went from there. And so on. Historical dating is similar, whether it is the age of the Universe, Homo Sapiens, pyramids, or an event like Mahabharata war. The estimate you seem to prefer (1500 BCE?) is also based on assumptions, albeit different ones, which too cannot be proved. Neither is exact and correct knowledge. Only new experimental knowledge, from new data or newly invented technology, will increase the precision.
You don't seem to understand the very basic principle that some arguments are better founded than other arguments. The more unproven assumptions that support an argument there are, the weaker the argument is. It is as simple as that.
I realize that a phrase like "unproven assumptions" must mean something to you, but it has no base in science. ALL ASSUMPTIONS ARE UNPROVEN, WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ASSUMPTIONS. You clearly don't understand how real science functions. This is not mathematical logic. The subject is history. The only thing that matters are exact events and circumstances that actually happened or existed. We don't know those. Mr Oak doesn't and you don't. Mr Oak is making a clearly stated guess, or starting with something he deems reasonable in order to develop the methodology. If better information becomes available, we'll plug that in. What makes you think that those who advocate 1500 BCE had true data? If you want to be taken seriously, then at least put your own prejudices openly on the table. Just what information do you possess about Mahabharata war that makes you select one assumption and dismiss others?
@@AKTCHIAh, but it is mathematical logic. Just as if someone makes up a new system of math, where 1+1=3, and then they develop a whole theory around it, the theory is no good, so if someone invents certain "facts" and then build a theory around it, the theory is unsubstantiated. They can't just say, "All science begins with assumptions."
@@WorldofAntiquity To explore the analogy further, if someone had the courage to say that -1 does have a square root, or that parallel lines can meet, they would have discovered new and very useful mathematics. A peculiarity of history is that unlike physics, which is dominated by laws of nature which are the same everywhere and always, history is dominated by unique events which may or may not be ever repeated. So for example all electrons are alike and behave according to universal laws. However, whether Napolean did or did not visit a specific city on a specific date was his sovereign decision and cannot be known without specific information. This is why history is harder to research than science. (Subjects like Geology or Cosmology are a mixture, part science and part history of unique events.) It is also why the use of phrases like "mathematical logic" in your writing troubles me. I know mathematics, I know logic, and I have studied history, and the three do not mix well. Anyway, reminding you that you have not yet stated your own prejudices or ideology on the Mahabharata matter, I will leave the last word to you.
"retrojecting"....good word. Here's another word for you, "imagineering"
Here's another one.. Confabulating
@@motopanza I'm anaspeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation.
I bet you this glass of wine you don't get the reference. :)
@@davidmurphy563 You're a cunning linguist with pencils stuck up your nostrils!
Joker playing around with words without a clue in astronomy. How old is the universe?? Ask Miano
I don’t know what you mean, these are all perfectly cromulent words
I think issue with History based only on proofs is absence of evidence is evidence of absence. One example is custard apple depicted in India art. Nobody believed it because it is south American fruit. But Archeological evidence found now suggests it was cultivated e in India since 1600BCE. You may search the paper on academia.
Ah, but as you noted, when the evidence appeared, opinions changed. That is good.
Yet, some folks will not change their views/opinions, because they neither understand custard apple/archaeology nor scientific acumen and logical reasoning.
They will continue believing what is written in books, academic authority, and expert consensus.
@@WorldofAntiquity There's written text transferred throughout ages. It was not written to prove anything to anyone about its occurrence neither Mahabharata tries to prove its genuinity.
Then go with what the text has to teach.
Also there is no scientific evidence that Moses, Jesus or Mohammed existed, because their stories were written much later for religious politics?
@@WorldofAntiquity India had a lot of books now labled as religious even though only parts are. Books on Indian astrology has astronomy in them and not to mention the books with math and basic theories in them. Can you fact check Project Shivom btw.
So who took it to South America?
It's amazing how modern historian don't even bother to seriously study someone's work before dismissing it. You can't just claim foundation isn't sound so will not go through the evidence given in book.
Have found this channel to be agenda driven before also. This video confirms it.
That’s like complaining that I only talked about the crumbling foundation of a house and didn’t talk about the well-crafted decor.
He will throw more nonsensical words at you rather than answer your point. That's what this guy is expert at. He hasn't read the original Mahabharat. I doubt he has even read Nilesh's book.
Great way to start the morning, thanks Dr Miano
You are not presenting any proof that refute the assumptions of Oak. His calculations are based on the astronomical charts presented in the book Mahabharata. How can you refute those charts?
He is the one with the theory, not me. So he is the one that needs to present the proofs.
@@WorldofAntiquity You have no evidence to disprove the calculations of Oak and he was not alone. Other astronomers also examined this issue. it is not a theory. You do not know Sanskrit or astronomy. You are only talking and talking. In this way you can not refute the arguments of Oak.
@@dipakbose2677 You didn't read what I wrote.
@@WorldofAntiquity In which book of yours I can find out what you wrote about refutation of Oak’s calculation?
Sir, between astronomical evidences and on ground archeological evidences, what would you weigh more on for dating ancient events? Numerous times the archeological evidences used for dating ex. Carbon dating is based on a very minute little sample. Or DNA. How reliable would it be? Do you believe that Mahabharata references to various planets like Saturn, Mars, etc. are actually astronomical evidences?
Astronomical evidences of what?
@@WorldofAntiquityhistoric references as artifact that these astonomical alignments / events actually happened.pointing to a period in history. Irrespective of what happened on the ground
@@mandarbhome Your English is hard to follow. I am not seeing the answer to my question. Can you please rephrase your question to me in clear words that I can understand?
@@WorldofAntiquity my apologies if I was not clear, let me try again...can astronomical references (in any historical documentation) be considered as an evidence of a period in history at all. How much importance would you give to such references vis-a-vis identifying a period based on hard archeological artifacts found on the ground with all the modern methods of dating.
@@mandarbhome Yes, that can if (1) they are truly astronomical references, (2) the references are clear and not open to interpretation, (3) no mistakes were made in the recording of the info or its copying over the centuries, (4) sufficient information is provided to narrow down a date, (5) the observations are contemporary with the events described, and (6) the work is non-fiction. Once all these criteria are satisfied, then dating by such references would have equal or greater weight to archaeological evidence.
5:12 sorry, I didn't understood what you mean (Or your statement is saying MB might have happened way before and 5K BCE is referring to when it was written?)
You should set up a debate with Mr. Oak and see if you can "prove" to him in real time why he's wrong and you are right. These types of video reviews have limited value because the author does not have a chance to respond. Will you accept a challenge to debate? Side note: you say Oak claims 5651 BCE as the year of the MB War. No, he claims 5561 BCE. I won't hold it against you, however, and will just attribute it to lack of attention to detail.
Mr. Oak has already agreed to respond in a video. And I will be happy to reply.
Usual suspect How old is the universe? No archaeological proof and no Miami. Two completely worlds talking on different issues
@@WorldofAntiquity As we wait for Mr. Oak to respond , as someone who has been following Oak's works, here are my very quick thoughts on your video:
1. On the "ifs" /assumptions: I think we should be knowing that every single scientific theory has assumptions ; How many of us question the preposterous assumption of " objective materiality'' that forms the basis of each scientific paper? Mr. Oak's assumptions are much more rational!
2. The basis of your disagreement appears to stem from a massive underestimation of the ancient civilizations and a strong confirmation bias to the timelines suggested by the Eurocentric - Christian "missionary" Historians of yore; the ones who have tried hard (and lost) to squeeze in old civilizations to post the Biblical creation date of 4000 BCE! Come on, we now know Homo sapiens started settling and building civilizations north of Africa around 75000 BCE! We even have proof of man-made fire and tools from around 15000 BCE in the Indian subcontinent itself! We know the Hindus have been observing the sky from at least 10000 BCE (Referring works on Surya Sidhanta by Raj Vedam , Nilesh Oak etc.) .
3. On why the Ancient Greeks and Hindus wrote stories on astronomical events, please refer Raj Vedam's TEDx talk on Ancient Star gazers.
@@SJ-zo3lz *On the "ifs" /assumptions: I think we should be knowing that every single scientific theory has assumptions;*
Not like that. No scientific theory based on unfounded assumptions can hold up.
*How many of us question the preposterous assumption of "objective materiality'' that forms the basis of each scientific paper?*
I don't know what you mean by "objective materiality." When I Google it, nothing comes up.
*The basis of your disagreement appears to stem from a massive underestimation of the ancient civilizations and a strong confirmation bias to the timelines suggested by the Eurocentric - Christian "missionary" Historians of yore; the ones who have tried hard (and lost) to squeeze in old civilizations to post the Biblical creation date of 4000 BCE!*
The basis of my negative assessment of the book stems from Mr. Oak's failure to provide evidence for the assumptions underlying his thesis. I don't follow any timelines created by "Eurocentric - Christian 'missionary' Historians of yore." History is based on the research and interchange of a global community of experts in various fields. They consist of scholars from various ethnicities and cultural backgrounds, who have agreed on universal and consistent methods of study that everyone can agree with.
*Come on, we now know Homo sapiens started settling and building civilizations north of Africa around 75000 BCE! We even have proof of man-made fire and tools from around 15000 BCE in the Indian subcontinent itself!*
I don't know where you are getting your information from, but the world's oldest known settlements are from the Natufian culture, and they don't go back to 75000 BCE. Anyway, what does that have to do with the book?
*We know the Hindus have been observing the sky from at least 10000 BCE*
People have been observing the sky since the beginning. What does that have to do with the book? The assumption that Mr. Oak makes is that a SPECIFIC astronomical system was used in the Mahabharata. He doesn't back up that claim with independent evidence.
*On why the Ancient Greeks and Hindus wrote stories on astronomical events, please refer Raj Vedam's TEDx talk on Ancient Star gazers*
Raj Vedam is not an expert on ancient Indian astronomy. I suggest you read someone like B. V. Subbarayappa.
@@WorldofAntiquity This is a bit of a tangent but I think it’s relevant, you say science doesn’t back assumptions that can’t be proven the Big Bang can’t be proven though you can’t replicate that in a lab we don’t even fully understand our own Earth and that’s a problem with science it claims objectivity but people “believe” in science the same way they do religion.
You seem very knowledgeable on this matter would you explain the gotra system found in Hinduism and how far it dates back to. I am a suryavanshi ksatriya belonging to the kasyapa gotra, lord Ram of the famous Iksawaku dynasty belonged to the same gotra.
Okay man, Ramayana and Mahabharat people where Christians. Hopefully you happy now
oKaY mAn, tHoSe pEoOLe wErE cHriStiAn mAn 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 daffa ho yahan Middle India nationalist.
No he wants Europeans civilized us but history tells indians civilized the world 😂😂
@@understanding.everything Nope. Khadd jaa bhaiyye.
Have you read the original books of Mahabharata and Ramayana written in Sankrit? What is your level of sanskrit knowledge?
Great Indian scientist JC Bose was a physicist. Father of wireless telecommunications as well as father of botany also. He was the first person to state that plants have life based on all the scientific criteria exhibited by living organisms. This was severely criticised and denied by Western scientists. So he invented crescograph to prove the fact. Only then his work was recognised. So he is a physicist, a biologist and a botanist too. But it feels so strange to know that in all indian ancient texts plants are always considered living yet the western world came to know and recognise the fact so so late, that too from a man of physics !!! The entire field of botany had no existence !!!Had he not been a man of physics he would not have been able to make the crescograph to prove that fact.
*Have you read the original books of Mahabharata and Ramayana written in Sankrit? What is your level of sanskrit knowledge?*
Sanskrit is not one of the ancient languages I can read. Why do you ask?
*Great Indian scientist JC Bose was a physicist...*
India has had many great scientists. I don't know what bearing that has on how good Nilesh Oak's book is.
@@WorldofAntiquity this means you haven't read the original Sanskrit texts, so don't have any ideas about the details of astrological astronomical and geographical data described in the shlokas based on which Mr Oak draws the timelines.....
@@SnlkSk Yes, but that has no bearing on my criticisms whatsoever. Anyway, I know people who know Sanskrit quite well, who disagree with Mr. Oak.
@@WorldofAntiquity i know people who fought Mahabharata 😊
All I can say is Nilesh Nilkanth Oak is for too knowledgeable and put forward the mind blowing astronomical evidences which no historian can think of (as astronomy is not their expertise) and Astronomers won't study history to make a co-relation of historical events and respective time-line. In this regard he is a rare genius and to understand what he is saying, one must have some scientific acumen and logical reasoning skills beside the knowledge of the subject- in this case the Mahabharat as written in Sanskrit.
16 years back when I visited my ancestral village in UP, India, people use the same astronomy as day today language, birth, events in life and death... all in terms coinciding Nakshatra and planetary positions that time.
Same time I understand it is hard for any one to understand these references, if they are not familiar with the same. Thanks to the channel World of Antiquity and everyone here to explore their part of truth as per their understanding.
Historians and astronomers work together all the time. That’s what experts do when investigating a hypothesis, invite experts of a different field relevant to the subject for accuracy and truth.
Do an hours worth of research on archaeology and human history. You won’t believe him anymore. Maybe he should do the same….
@@russelledwards001 What kind of research? A quick google search? Lol
Dr. Miano,
Please organise a debate with Nilesh Nilkanth Oak directly and we will see it live. You are giving no chance to Nilesh Oak to defend his arguements, intentionally. Stop bullying us the innocents and gullible ones who are not able to as critically analyse your statements as Nilesh Oak.
Plz make videos on antiquity of vedas and puranas.
We can understand that, that period of time, being a nomadic barbaric, it is hard to digest for you.
What he means to say by telling even after 18 years gap between the war and writing he knows the star and cosmology of every event exactly because when the event occurred for example birth, marriage, or death the star and the planet alignment were noted at that time cause astrology played a huge role in ancient India
and what he means by people had greater power and knowledge is because God Krishna appears in this battle and many powerful saints battled throughout , so I guess he's referring to that
He is simply pointing out evidence s from the epic Mahabharata that are celestial and when using modern software what that comes to for dating the events. Anybody who really read and understood would not point out such things. Seeking knowledge and search for truth should not be agenda driven🙏 it’s human history.
There's written text transferred throughout ages. It was not written to prove anything to anyone about its occurrence neither Mahabharata tries to prove its genuinity.
Then go with what the text has to teach.
Also there is no scientific evidence that Moses, Jesus or Mohammed existed, because their stories were written much later for religious politics?
"Jyotishya" =/= "Astrology"
"Jyotisha" = "Time Keeping" (Deals with astronomy)
This is a huge misconception that puts all the ancient work under "Superstition". The word is coined from "Jyoti", which means "a fire lamp". The night sky looks like thousands of fire lamps. Astronomy is useful for Timekeeping (Calander) like the "Panchanga", the Hindu Calander used in households that uses a Luni-Solar Calander, information derived from "Vedanga Jotishya"
@@ShekaranJagadeesan I would like to clarify as follows. Jyotisha Shastra is Astronomy, time keeping and stating of the Muhurata (proper time) for rituals. It is one of the six Vedanga.
Hora Shastra is Astrology.
Indians still do that
Position of stars is recorded the day baby is born
Can you do Vedveer Arya's date of Mahabharata
Will be interesting. 3162 BCE!
Could you make a video on books you would seriously recommend?
Too many to count! It would depend on the subject.
@@WorldofAntiquity Its your Abharamic and Eurocentric agenda.
@@WorldofAntiquity You look scared 😱. Western Universities are hiding😄😄😄. Burn the book or hide it. Like your ancestors.
@@singhdeepak1000
Are trolls human?
Oh my god ! Now we have these half witted blokes lecturing us about what and how we should read and interpret our thousands of years old scriptures.
Does he even know that the description of the stars in the various nakshatras have been consistently written in different Hindu books across different timescales thousands of years ago ? Nilesh Oak is just putting into perspective, the information that already existed millennia ago.
You are assuming the age of the texts and using it to prove the age of the texts?
For your information, since ancient times every child's birth is recorded by "Nakshatra" commonly known as Janam kundali + many things. Even my birth was recorded through nakshatra & converted it in kundali.
"Since ancient times" - Can you be more specific? When?
A minimum of 24000 years. Based on proofs, but we still have to think, how much time it would have been taken for humans to reach on this level of civilized society. With such a great knowledge of nature and science.
The critique is sound and review left me with no doubt to whether to buy this book, but ane thing is missing and it will haunt me to no end: how did the author come up with such a date, both ancient and precise? Could you elaborat on that? Or at least take such things into account in further reviews?
have a watch - czcams.com/video/BxPBsTf-x_c/video.html
Don't be swayed by this idiot. Read the effing book and make your own opinion.
You know, Nilesh Oak has a YT channel. And a playlist on the ancient Hindu calendar. That's free. And he does have much longer talks on the epics online. (Haven't seen them, don't ask.)
@@Haru-nee : that is not the point. I can get what I need to know in other ways. I can read, listen or watch on the topic. Others probably could find the information too.
The point is: it js presented as a valid criticism and not elaborated enough. In further reviews there could be similar cases and it would be great if such topics will be closer examined then.
It would be nice if dr Miano make a material on this, as I like his analysis, but the general tendency is more important than a singular case.
Must be true, or they would not have named Oak Island after him.
4:05 can you explain what is this system ?
the biggest thing is it is difficult to swallow that ancient indians followed the stars and dates meticulously. i understand it is big. just stay at the tip and drink water after.
That isn't what's being talked about here.
To add more, there are almost 1000 year old temples in India. Those temples are still standing. Do you know how much scientific aptitude is needed to build such a temple. It just doesn’t come overnight. It takes thousands of years to reach such heights of creativity.
There are almost no standing temples that are older than 2000 years, moreover, they are not anything more substantial than architecture in other civilizations found around the same time.
@@tejasmisra9115 they are not anything substantial because your white western media said so?
@@ravigohil999 Read what I wrote again, and this time read with comprehension. I didn't say they were not substantial, but not anything MORE substantial, then say, the Pyramids, the Colloseum, the Great Wall of China etc.
@@tejasmisra9115 he said 1000 ya dimwit.
@@tejasmisra9115 given a 1000 years of conflict where most of the temples in India have some or other form of damage inflicted on them, there is much less likeliness of a temple existing which might be older than 2000 years, many have tales of being reconstructed after being intentionally destroyed. On the other hand if you look at Angkor Wat , which was initially a Vaishnav temple , it’s in a really good state. If humans continue to preserve that for another 1000 years , it will stand. It’s inherently designed to last. The attacks on western ancient artefacts have not been so persistent, that’s why you can see them standing as of now. The Buddha statue in Afghanistan was recently destroyed which if it was not , would have lasted another millennia. You cannot judge designing capabilities just based on whether they’ve lasted or not , there are many factors involved.
I recommend you to read Shrikant talageri's books and also read his blogs or watch CZcams videos with him. I think his argument is pretty solid and if you find a problem with it, he'd be the first to be delighted. He's that kind of person after all
But unfortunately this "eminent historian" David is so adamant to accept alternative ideas
@@paganwarriors5340 extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence my guy
@@froggystyle642 so to accept extraordinary claims with evidence required extraordinary people (minds)😂😂
@@aamod7696 Only extraordinary people can believe this, in a way, yes.
@paganwarriors5340 I presented to him evidence of Hindus ruling Egypt with ancient Greek references & he didn't want to accept it but said we have to look in today's light! 😂
what are the assumptions?
Great video, only question I have is, how is ~5600BCE before the development of cities when Golbekli Tepe is dated around ~10,000BCE.
Gobekli Tepe was not a city.
@@WorldofAntiquity not trying to be a dick here, just genuinely curious. So it seemed to be like a religious pilgrimage site, where people would gather around and live for a little bit. I'm assuming it was meant to be somewhat permanent due to its construction, until they buried it for whatever reason.
So is the only difference between a place like this and a city, permanent residence? Also, besides more trash, what evidence distinguishes between permanent settlements and semi permanent settlements?
@@qurn I have a video on what makes a city coming soon.
This videographer is highly prejudiced. He only read established western writings and ignore all other
@@WorldofAntiquity The people that built that complex had to live somewhere. Hunter gatherers are not likely to stop surviving off the land to suddenly build a complex as vast as that is and then go back to hunter gathering after that for 3 to 4000 years until the supposedly sudden rise of nearby cultures. Only a portion of the area is excavated so to say it was not a city without seeing the rest of the excavation completed is stupid. In the future if a lost modern city is once again discovered and they start uncovering it and start at a shrine or some other random edifice not used for living in it wont mean that in the surrounds around that complex does not indeed contain a city. It just means they haven't got to the city part yet.
small minds cannot find big information
Ikr 😆 he says it won't attract people who are interested in history. Nearly evry person interested in history thinks our civilizations are older and we're being lied to by mainstream like this guy. Like the Aryan invasion theory. Completely false and with no evidence they made these claims that gave plenty of counter evidence to go against. Yet they would never accept it.
Why don’t you do a rebuttal video on his video?
This dude is like Cartoon Network. Calls other people rubbish as if he's an authority on the subject 😂😂
Dude probably can't even name the nakshatras, let alone refute their existence in ancient texts 😂😂
Had to try really hard not to immediately answer "it did not".
Looks like you're looking at everything Indian with biased western lens, yes those claims maybe false and some maybe true but judging everything on basis of so called established history which infact is western historians history is not correct atleast be ready to understand what other people think about their scriptures and dating there's definitely bias towards India by colonial historian's and Crediting everything to Roman Greece civilization as if they're only advanced civilisations is very common thing in most colonial historians because those barbarian English German historians feel as if they were roman and Greek lol
Let's Don't make arrogant faces let's try to understand others perspective no just white perspective
There's a Western bias against India, but there is definitely not an Indian bias. No no no.
@@tejasmisra9115 I won't say there is not. But we think that it is being dismissed without taking any serious look on it.
@@siddheshdeshpande7183 What he is saying is based on the collected understanding of the past few centuries of archaeological research.
@@tejasmisra9115 City of Dwarka that is said to have submerged mentioned in the texts is found under the ocean right next to present city of Dwarka. Now is that not a huge archeological evidence? modern studies do suggest that there had been rise in sea levels around that time.
@@siddheshdeshpande7183 Not really, underwater sites are found all the time. I don't see how the location around Dwarka being an old site, maybe even pre-Harappan, would change the fact that archaeological evidence doesn't support the Mahabharata in 5000 BC. During that time there were no major urban sites in the Ganga-Yamuna area, even Harappan sites were not urbanized and largely concentrated in the Eastern Iran - Indus Valley region, with only a few in Haryana and Punjab, but nothing east of that. This was also during the Chalcolithic (Copper) Age, that would mean the Mahabharata would've been fought with copper weapons and armour, rather unlikely.
Are there any decent books worth reading on the Mahabharata, I've looked but always end up feeling uncomfortable over whether they are genuine works of history or not, any suggestions would be appreciated. We've tonnes of stuff on the Iliad and I've always wanted to read-up on this subject... ✌️
You might just want to start with the book itself. Penguin has an abridged edition with considerable commentary at the beginning.
Yea, I have a copy and it's on the (very long) list, thanks! 👍
Read the original work in its own language . Most of the translations are done by illiterates of the original language .
@@sreekanthravindran3618 So people who don't know Sanskrit should read the work in Sanskrit? And people who have spent years studying Sanskrit are not able to translate it, because they are illiterate? I'm confused.
@@WorldofAntiquity if you want to know . Most of translations available are translation of Sanskrut with a Hindi meaning , and most of the so called so called scholars who translated have sone basic language study only . You need at least 13-14 years to study that language . So people who just want to read can read anything that’s translation . But want to understand what it is , learn it . It’s like the differences in original Hebrew bible and the English version
Plz make a video on kailasha temple
Thank you, Professor, for a candid review of Dr. Oak's book. I haven't read this book but have gone through similar information available on his blog. Your logic is flawless.
In this context I have a few questions.
1. What is your definition of Ancient History? The time period. And the supporting evidence about it.
2. Do you use the same yardstick while assessing veracity of other books like the Bible or the Quran?
3. What is your source of the stated information about the current date of Mahabharata war? How reliable the source and the date are?
point wise questions to point wise answers, his assumptions
1. ancient has a simple definition, anything which occured before the fall of western rome.
2. why does it matter?
there, answered two of your questions for ya.
@@craniumtea5137 Thank you very much for your reply. The key expression in this reply is 'of western rome'.
I am waiting for the channel owner to confirm.
@@craniumtea5137 As for (2), obviously it matters if you know anything about Indology/Sanskrit Studies and how its dating was done on the basis of biblical timeline and related assumptions about a Young Earth theory that is Christian in nature. Max Muller and others were more honest about their interpolation of Indian history than current scholars who hide behind their assumed scholarship because they have a doctorate in history or linguistics but who don't even know how to pronounce Sanskrit much less anything else about Sanskrit...meaning, they foist a western worldview onto Indian history and form fit their assumptions onto India.
marine archaeology in the gulf of cambay
Say hey David, Your patience in answering some of these challenging comments is *commendable. And I think you do it effectively. Your command of complex, and often obscure, material is really terrific.
The history of India just overwhelms me. It's an immense subject. Thanks for shedding some light on this slice of it.
You're praising an idiot, actually, he's a charlatan.
OMG!! When it comes to understanding some are in elementary levels and pat each other in the back. Shun your agenda and gather knowledge. Be open minded in seeking truth 🙏
There's written text transferred throughout ages. It was not written to prove anything to anyone about its occurrence neither Mahabharata tries to prove its genuinity.
Then go with what the text has to teach.
Also there is no scientific evidence that Moses, Jesus or Mohammed existed, because their stories were written much later for religious politics?
Well he thinks he understood all of it through the internet.. never hated anyone on youtube,,, but this guy deserves the spot !
Hi. Indian here. We have a belief these days that if anything does not fit our exact narrative, (and that narrative is created by right wing nationalists and Hindu supremacist groups), then that opinion is colonial, hates Hindus, or some kind of propaganda to destroy India.
This means that any and all evidence has to conform to their standards or be thrown out.
Mr Oak is from the highest, aka Brahmin caste, to be exact. He's used to not having anyone correcting him or challenging him. Unfortunately not many people do, and those who do often run afoul of the nutjobs. David's work in speaking truth to power is commendable.
I get it, he is trying to prove something which lots of people, especially in India, accept as truth.
I think he is at least giving it a structure and place to disprove or accept. Lots of books inspired by religion has this phenomenon, so I am okay with it.
Anyways for Hindu, what matters is 'what is thought', not dates or proof of existence.
Don't generalise all Hindus
I have tried to date the epic based on Archaestronomy. I have arrived almost t the same date as Dr.Subash Kak. Which is around 1700 to 1900 BC.
Mr. GreenGold, you did some good efforts and posted some tweets, and then for some (Mysterious!) reasons, deleted your tweets and disappeared! Why?
Do you have a specific year for the year of MB war (e.g. 1783 BCE, I think, by Dr. Ashok Bhatnagar Ji)?
@@NileshOak abbe ja na pajeet .... Jake panipuri bech ...
Wahi teri aukaat hai
Hi David! This has me curious, in common belief, the 15th century poet Tulsidas makes a note of the distance deity Hanuman travels to get to the sun. This number is is fairly close to the AU, before the value was calculated and proven by an Italian mathematician. Is this also a case of putting meaning to things or could it have been something else?
I’d have to see the wording of the text.
@@WorldofAntiquity There is lot of such texts and I have seen few evidences myself. We cannot falsify or call vague of such humongous knowledge written for centuries on body and soul, astronomical data, geological references, lunar calenders. There may be gaps it's hard to establish such ancient histories. I have listened to his talks.
@@Sush1111 i can still prove you wrong
Verma watch science journey for the proof
@gamer could you link it?
Dear friend, I have not read this book however what ever you are commenting are based on history written by western historians, which is biased towards west and aimed to glorify that culture, when the west world was in stone age and people were roaming naked , a fully flourished culture was at its peak in india. You may not understand this and would seem humorous but if you seriously study Indian culture you will be awe stuck to learn the magnanimity and antiquity of Indian culture.
First of all, the only opinion I expressed was whether the book was well-written and well-argued. I never said what did or didn't happen. Second, my opinions are based on evidence, not on who says it.
@@WorldofAntiquity And what is your evidence? How many pieces of empirical data do you have? Will you be able to list them?
@@nileshoak2990 I am speaking generally about how my opinions are formed. I didn't make any historical claims in this video.
I am still waiting for your video response, by the way.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. You confuse opinions with evidence.
Yes, you will have to wait for my video response. I will do it when time permits.
Thank you for doing the review. It is doing its small part in the much-needed Manthan. This will help the world comprehend the true timeline of the Mahabharata war (5561 BCE). In addition, this sheet-anchor will be instrumental in correcting timelines of world civilizations. It is already happening.
In the meantime, you may also consider reviewing my other two books, if you wish.
Best wishes.
@@WorldofAntiquity you are racist and Christian extremist
if you have any queries about the writing, you should directly ask the writer and not the supporters of your side or his side
Seems like you have a lot more to researching to do into the history of our sciences. Surya Siddhanta would be a good place to start
I have done much research. Many people do not realize that astronomical science progresses through history.
@@WorldofAntiquity u have done no research that's what I heard
@@bipinbisht7827 you have no brain, thats what i assume
I enjoy how you critique others’ work in the same way a professor marks a university paper; you want evidence, a bibliography, and sources!
So sir you want to tell us that one day a people of India come to know ooo there is telescope invented in europe and 8 planets are discovered and they told to all indian population pretend like we know about all this planets earlier than europians and whole india started doing that.
2. Nakshtra system is developed in India several years ago than Maharashtra and in books of ramayana and Mahabharata the positions of planets are well mentioned at the time of birth and death and any major events.
3. Indians are worshiping planets thousands of years before invention of telescope.
4. You are talking about writting methods please tell me where is the origin of literature.
Sir if you are reading this comment please reply to my questions or make specific video on it and video is nice👍👍
Thank you for your comment. Here are my thoughts:
*So sir you want to tell us that one day a people of India come to know ooo there is telescope invented in europe and 8 planets are discovered and they told to all indian population pretend like we know about all this planets earlier than europians and whole india started doing that.*
The question is NOT whether India knew of the outer planets before Europe. The question is whether they new of the outer planets in ancient times.
*2. Nakshtra system is developed in India several years ago than Maharashtra and in books of ramayana and Mahabharata the positions of planets are well mentioned at the time of birth and death and any major events.*
But the fully-developed Nakshatra system is not evident in those texts.
*3. Indians are worshiping planets thousands of years before invention of telescope.*
Only the planets visible to the human eye.
*4. You are talking about writting methods please tell me where is the origin of literature.*
Literature didn't come from one place.
I totally agree with what you are saying, there are multiple stories and practices in day today life, which has direct connection with planets.
Check Warah Avatar's imagery, we can understand how much astrology was developed in ancient india, they knew earth is circle way before these so called modern science evolved.
Also please check his another book on "When did Ramayana Happened"
Look into Raj Vedam's Lectures on similar subjects, he gives many different evidences.
No mention of Neptune in any scripture.
Ancient Greeks knew the Earth was a globe, not a circle, "before these so called modern science evolved." Any mariner who ventured out of sight of land figured that out quickly. It's the Victorians who invented the idea that early people thought the Earth was flat.
You just don’t want to understand the book .
The algorithms got an hour and half video on that book up next, it's headlined: 17000+years of unbroken Indian history. Looks like a helluva lot of stuff was happening before 5651 BC.
Indeed. Before 5561 BCE (5651 BC is an error on the part of the reviewer in this video).
@@NileshOak Ah, the author himself. I'm sure Dr Miano will be happy to make the correction from one absurd date to another equally so. Amour in the stone age... A written record 2 millennia before the dawn of writing... What were you thinking?! Or was this only ever meant to mislead the layman and sell books?
Are you going to address Dr Miano's damning criticism of your work, you do claim intellectual rigour after all - because right now your arguments are in tatters - or don't you care?
Yes. "Timeline of 17,000 years...." also showed up in my feed. I got through about half an hour.
Here's a few actual quotes from this presentation.
Regarding the Aryan Invasion Theory-
"_You can show with evidence that all of them are decisively false, but I'll not go into that here_."
Blunt assertion + appeal to nebulous it-exists-uh-huh evidence is all that's required apparently
While discussing the astronomy in Vedas.....
"_We tested objectively. I'm not going to get into it, but I would encourage you to go back, check your CZcams...... more than 200 specific observations. I objectively tested them. Sometimes individually. Sometimes in groups.... In the case of Ramayan, more than 500 specific observations. Again objectively tested them_"
No need to explain these objectively tests. Are you going to accuse him of not objectively testing or something? He objectively tested more than 700 times!
The more exposure I get to these guys, the less sceptical I'm becoming about their theories of cultural differences in thought processes being at the root of these disagreements. It seems as though Plato, Bacon, David Hume, Mendel, Augstine, etc haven't made their way to the Indian subcontinent. Objective truth existing outside of these guru-acolyte relationships seems like an iffy and radical concept.
@@Crumbsyums Half an hour! Guess you win.
@@Joe-King Did the final hour of thatbdebacle make a 180 degree turn and employ reason?
I'm still a little blown away that anyone could tolerate that much drivel. He spent 98% of the time prattling clumsily about evidence theory while presenting hardly any, save for his personal objectively tested conclusions that he won't share.. . Or maybe you get to see those after a patreon donation.
At the outset, Mr. Oak actually encouraged his audience to make anonymous accounts and claimed that he had several.
We live in the world of alternative facts made up on social media, where what we feel and believe trumps rational thought and facts.
There are a vast majority who will agree with all and any assumptions if it lines up with what they believe (or want to).
Absolutely it is all a matter of Sentiments only Unfortunately.
Maybe instead of just commentin every1 should report as spam or misleadin or misinformation about this channel.
Oak verified is theory on the basis of Mahabharat astronomical data and planetarium software. But the same was done more than 1500 years by Aryabhat as mentioned in his book Aryabhatiy. that's true, writing system may not be evolved at that time or is unavailable but there was oral tradition in India, cryptic and prose form of Mahabharat,it's quite possible. Coherancy from multiple sources is not in disagreement too
So you haven’t actually read them Mahabharata, but someone else is opinion of it?
People who are interested in knowing when did "the war" took place are missing the bigger picture that "this war" has been happening in the life of every individual since the beginning of human civilization.
I have never heard of this guy that wrote the book, but am disappointed you did not cite specific data from the book. I remember Dr Sagan covered a similar topic about ancient Indian astronomy in the highly acclaimed PBS Cosmos series. In theory it should be possible to date events from astronomical observations. I suppose I will have to read this book to know what the errors were in the calculations
The "observations" are invented.
@@WorldofAntiquity Thank you, not that I dont trust you but I want to see the evidence. Some guy said the moon, Mars and Jupiter coincide with such date and you want to say that they dont. I would rather look it up myself. I am going to check this guys book out. As I was saying in a debunking video the debunker provides examples of empirical data the other guy presents and counters it with empirical data. If the other guy does not have empirical data it would make your job all the more easier. Watch videos by Thunderfoot on CZcams on how to present empirical data to counter an argument. I really cant say much till I do some research of my own. Thanks
@@silentvoiceinthedark5665 Keep in mind that this is a book review, not a debunking video.
@@WorldofAntiquity Yes, you are right. I forget that everything is not a scientific review because of my line of work and the stress associated with it. I need to just enjoy the recreational time here on YT as that and only that. I tend to gravitate towards scientific review on YT. I do realize that maybe I need to watch ballet or something else. I have not watch TV in years nor do I intend to.
@@silentvoiceinthedark5665 czcams.com/video/Oe6QyiXj2bk/video.html
@Worldofantiquity What would for example be a good evidence for existence of Nakshatra system about 7500 years back. Like what material or other proof would prove it?
An astronomy book written at the time.
so when is this on screen debate?historians and archeologists FROM India seem to agree with Dr Miano to a great degree
Who are these historians and archaeologists? and What date they are claiming and what dates Dr. Miano is claiming?
What is the evidence (objectively testable that is) presented by either of these parties?
Don’t remark darkness with closed eyes , try to study Bharat Astrology science then start to talk abt it🙏🏻
I know that this is a little off subject, but could you do a session on "the timeline". I am confused on the relative time periods from" England & Europe - the near east-far east- South and Central America." . Showing the facts as we know them, not those proposed as facts to make their ideas line up.
I almost went off the deep end because of TimeLine videos about biblical history and ancient mesopotamian history. Its high production value and has a ton of views so it seems legit. Luckily i stumbled across more and better researched videos on those topics and found my way to the good side of history youtube.
There are some people who map out which countries existed and where over the years, which can help a bit with understanding who is contemporary with who. And the graphical representation can make it a bit easier to take in, though of course any detail on how populous, rich, etc each society actually is is lost. Still it can be a good starting off point.
For instance this video here covers human world history, czcams.com/video/-6Wu0Q7x5D0/video.html
That's a very nice idea.
India is the cradle of civilization.
@@singhdeepak1000 Well, all the evidence points to the fertile crescent but my granddad said the cradle of civilization was Ardnageehy just out Bantry, Co Cork, Ireland so let's compromise and go with that.
India can be teenage bunk bed of civilization.
I would like to see a debate between you and Nilesh Oak
And see what he has to say about your arguments
That's NEVER going to happen with guys like this.
the story really happend and it would have been better if you had read from the 1st author
The error isn't in the book it's in placing it in non-fiction. Just move it to the fantasy section and everything is fine!
That's gonna piss off a lot of BJP voters that's for sure
Yes. Bible too. Indeed. story of mythical man named Jesus👍🏼
You mean mythology section.
@@aamod7696 Atleast the majority of americans can admit it. You and sharia lawmakers can't even imagine a world without sky-daddies and caste sanctioned slaves. Pretty soon no one will be able to tell talibanis and chaddi clad VerySorry Workers apart.
@@aamod7696 well historicity of Jesus can easily argued about than this ancient fantasy
Nilesh Oak is doing a fantastic work by actually creating a interest of current generation in these topics. His videos and his theoretical explanations with references are just mind blowing.
As per you, there might be glitches as we are humans are tend to learn and improve our subjects.
But still his theory is far better than what we read and learn from other religious books.
I have nothing against historical fiction, as long as it is marketed as such.
@@WorldofAntiquity I think, it is not fiction.
It is real history.
His study with the reference documents is very good and knowledge that Nilesh Oak is concluding is something that was lost or hidden.
@@WorldofAntiquity In that case you are talking about Bible.
@@jasonenglish8259 Bruh, I don't think you went through the video or understood the speaker if you did. David here just debunked all of the reasoning within the book. Whether Nilesh's work is creating interest in the Mahabharata is irrelevant as the subject here is that of historical accuracy or Truth. Comparing one false theory to another doesn't change the fact that it is still false. Only truth matters and that is what David here was going on.
@@151taj I am understanding both.. nilesh and as well as david. Hence concluded my personal opinion.
sir please reply, i have a lot of intrest in ancient indian history , archaerologists dated dwaraka it came out to be roughly 8k bce , which fits with his dates , and the sunken city of dwaraka is exactly at the place where mahabharata text mentions , so what is your opinion about this , and one more thing this is not related to this video , but i think indus valley may be a vedic civilixation , many people argue that there is no palace or any higher status buildings , but as i looked upon this ancient indians ( i mean befor turks even before shakas and scythians ) didnt build palaces , there are temples built by raja raja chola which even stand today but there is no evidence of fort or palace of him and chandragupta also didnt have , artha shastra a religious text says that the main duty of a king is to make his kingdom prosper and rich , but the kings shouldnt spend money on himself , even in ithasas there is no such great mention of palaces , so i dont this is a coincidence or what , but this fits exactly and even indus had swords daggers and spears , sir what do you think about this
4:43 which means MB should happened even earlier than the given date?
The "war" in question likely happened, just very much not the way it does in the Mahabharata as I'm fairly certain it started as a epic poem much like the Iliad and like the Iliad wasn't written down until a very long time after it was first performed.
Indeed Maharashtra was written 18yrs after incident of war. Written by Sage vyasa. And all these events happened during his lifetime. 🙏🏼
@@aamod7696 he probably came and whispered this in your ear
@@RakhiSingh-kj5ok yahh... Indeed.. and told me that tell Rakhi singh ji to read Mahabharata and other literature to get all answers. ✌🏻
@MWhaleK:
That's a sensible stand but I find that the fictional element is very low in the narrative of the original Mahabharata, especially considering that script was not discovered in 5561BCE and considering the still-oral tradition of narrating the Vedas and Itihasas Canto to Canto accurately. Besides, the well-spun story and its strong character - mesh (viz-a - viz other texts and geographies of same era) is too real to be fictional. Moreover, how can over 300 astronomical references point to a single period?! That itself shows that the author(s) of this ancient text was not fooling around ! We tend to doubt something's sanity just because it's tagged "religious" !!
As someone who has been following Oak's works, here are my very quick thoughts on this review video:
1. On the "ifs" /assumptions: I think we should be knowing that every single scientific theory has assumptions ; How many of us question the preposterous assumption of " objective materiality'' that forms the basis of each scientific paper? Mr. Oak's assumptions are much more rational!
2. The basis of the disagreement appears to stem from a massive underestimation of the ancient civilizations and a strong confirmation bias to the timelines suggested by the Eurocentric - Christian "missionary" Historians of yore; the ones who have tried hard (and lost) to squeeze in old civilizations to post the Biblical creation date of 4000 BCE! Come on, we now know Homo sapiens started settling and building civilizations north of Africa around 75000 BCE! We even have proof of man-made fire and tools from around 15000 BCE in the Indian subcontinent itself! We know the Hindus have been observing the sky from at least 10000 BCE (Referring works on Surya Sidhanta by Raj Vedam , Nilesh Oak etc.) .
3. On why the Ancient Greeks and Hindus wrote stories on astronomical events, please refer Raj Vedam's TEDx talk on Ancient Star gazers.
@@SJ-zo3lz ahh... Plz paste this under video comments directly 👍🏼
You showed your card when you said he (NNO) is an chemical engineer and have no knowledge of ancient history and archaeology.... 😂 well well well.... by this logic all the western (non indian and indian who can't read or write sanskrit) shouldn't comment on the Indian history. History doesn't follow a. person who hold a certificate of some University it's a western notion which sometimes we indian proud of. We indians often witnessed this, some one from west come and tell us.... look I'm the historian i have a degree I tell you about your history 😂 you can't because you don't have any degree. West is in it's kind very funny go arround the world invade lands, exploits them and with that try to convert even their history..... scratch earth policy.
Are you even hearing yourself?
First of all, Most of the Indians can't read or use sanskrit.
Meanwhile, not all historians or archeologists study the same part of history or geological location meaning not anyone can study anything unless they have an expertise in that perticular topic. Still an average archeologist might know the steps of the work or finding out facts or simply crosscheck some theories that are put on.
To sum up, It's about expertise and not about language, just like any medical professional would have more knowledge of diagnosing or treating someone than that of an unprofessional fuck.
P.S.- I'm a Hindu and an Indian who believes that it's not hindu mythology but Indian History but the creators argument here is simply logical and yours is simply not.
@@donblake3402 I can't hear as I wrote it so I can see ..... second you claim to be a hindu and still call it mythology is the proof what you doing. Most Indian can't write read sanskrit is your another claim which is like world happiness index. Carry on your support for different agenda. 🙏 Mr.Don we already have many ground sepoys of West certification program of history and other stuff now... no more vacancies for anyone. So, keep certificate thing in pocket and take return ticket of West. Happy journey 👍
@@mukulpurigoswami7618 Sanskirt uses devnagari today
A few can't read devnagari. But most of us still can't understand it . Reading isn't enough. And even though you claim Indians to know sanskrit, the old language can be read and understood by experts and professionals.
And also it's not about my trust in Hinduism its about your trash argument.
@@mukulpurigoswami7618 and what's this new logic of *Get your ticket to West*
Some bastards and andhbhakts can't stand critisism even if it's logical and fair
That's why the nation is ruled by a Right leaned extremist party with a dictator as its prime
@@donblake3402 what he is and you doing isn't criticism it's called certification program which Bharat stopped to purchase it anymore. Tickets nhi smj aaya neo british ko 😳 koi ni smjha dete : no more import from west 😂
Circular reasoning is like skating on thin ice, it can easily collapse. It is understandable that cost of research and publishing could make one self publish it, making the book not so reader friendly.
Temples in Bharat (India) has carving of nakshtra and star alignments with tithi (particular event of time) way back than dates you come up with. Remember our absence of knowledge also makes us blind, like in darkness you cant see whats in front of you doesn't mean there is nothing in front. Think yourself.
No temples from Mahabharata times have ever been found.
@@WorldofAntiquity From the Kurukshetra, the place where the great war happened, archaeologists have uncovered some iron arrows and spearheads with the use of thermoluminescence that dates back to 2,800 B.C.E., which is approximately the time when Mahabharata happened.
Dwarka structure found under ocean carbon dating back to the mahabharat time by archeologist.
@@Krishna-vp8mf Do you think iron arrows and spearheads were used only during the Mahabharata War and at no other time before?
See my video on Dwarka.
@@WorldofAntiquity wtf? Typically european hypocrisy, there is quote written in somnath that land aftwr sea ending have no human settlment and it about 2000 to 3000 year old, just see where is somnath and where its written
@@WorldofAntiquity I can only smile on ignorance. You are denying even scientific proofs and finding of dwarka inside water. My Friend you are free to believe whatever you want. There are many flat earther and fake moon landing people are still there in 2022, We shouldn't be mad at them because there lack of knowledge comes from ignorance.
In archaelogy, Sir, you should state everything as a fact at the moment based on evidences found at the moment. A scholar like you must use words precisely.
In saying that, I am sure you must have read of 'Bhirrana' excavations in India. It pre dates harappan civilisation. Would love to see what you find about that.
How does this relate to the topic?
@@WorldofAntiquity
It does not relate to the topic of dating of Mahabharata by Nilesh, which is criticised by many scholars in India itself, just to inform you.
My comment is direct response to your statement "5k BCE, as those of you who know a little about history would frown upon this date, as writing was not discovered and civilisations were not urbanised"
With all due respect, Sir, this statement coming from a scholar without the required call out of "which we know as fact at the moment" makes a lot of difference on how some naive viewers understand history. It is expected from scholars like you to be precise in articulation of phrases. My response is simply based on the articulation of your statement.
I mentioned Bhirrana, one of the indus city excavated in India's Haryana state which as per ASI dates back to 7500 BCE and is claimed to be a pre harappan site. Till some years ago it was populary believed that india's history started with Alexanders 'invasion' and all such 'theories' are taken as facts by masses based on the words of more learned people like you. And regarding Bhirrana you have more knowledge on this subject than me so I leave it upto you to look more into it, that; if you find it interesting. Would love to see it as a topic of your video.
The point of mentioning Bhirrana is that in archaelogy frequently we keep finding new infirmation which can change the course of our understanding of ancient world.
@@Thinker117 Sorry, I am confused by what you are trying to point out. My statement, "5k BCE, as those of you who know a little about history would frown upon this date, as writing was not discovered and civilisations were not urbanised," is accurate and up to date with the evidence. There is no evidence or urbanization at Bhirrana that is that old. There is only evidence of settlement.
@@WorldofAntiquity I am not saying there is evidence of urbanisation in Bhirrana civilisation.
I used it as example as till some years ago the oldest harappan site did not date back to 7k BCE.
My only point is history keep changing, hence even though your statement still holds true, you should mention that based on evidences found yet this is the fact.
@@Thinker117 If there is nothing inaccurate about what I said, I don't know why you have a problem with it. I have many videos that talk about how history keeps updating. I don't need to say it in every video.
Only if our ancient books were not burnt. Only if our education system were not destroyed by the British colonization. We would have all the proofs that satisfies you.
But as indians, we know that all this knowledge is deeply rooted in our culture.
Thanks to Nilesh Nilkanth Oak, we see some ways to connect the dots. Its just a beginning there are many more texts which needed decoding. Hopefully in future , we abolish recently developed educational structures and go back to learn the ancient indian science , astronomy, ayurveda, etc
What are the titles of these important books that were destroyed? Do you have evidence that they ever existed, or are you just imagining that they must have existed?
Thanks dude 🫡
There is a glaring mistake upfront in the above 'review'.
The year proposed by Mr. Oak is 5561 BCE and not 5651 BCE, as mentioned repeatedly.
Yes, I am aware. See the thumbnail. It doesn't really make a difference overall.
Pradeep. How is that a material detail when there is not enough evidence to say this happened 7,000 years ago or anything near that?
@@jamisojo
If one does not see the tonnes of Astronomical Evidence, internal to Mahabharata, or chooses to ignore it -so as to continue to be dogmatic - no evidence (primary or corroborative) will satisfy him/her.
This reminds me of Morozov's dating of Revelation of John.
Please find out what is the oldest text known to human and what’s in it? It is not a religious text as you may read in google results.