UCO Candle Lantern, Can it warm a freezing tent? Pt 1, one man tent. What factors cause heat loss?
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- I measured the inside temperature in my Nordisk Svalbard 1si on a freezing December night.
Raising funds here for equipment for my scouts unit www.buymeacoff...
RESULTS BELOW.
Firstly measured it empty; then I left the candle burning inside for 20 min,then measured the temperature again and finally got in the tent for 20 min and measured the temperature again to see the combined effect.
I discuss all the different factors that could influence this experiment and will be helpful to anyone when considering what conditions can cause heat loss in a tent.
Results were:
Temp in degrees centigrade
Outside -0.8c
Empty tent 0.8c
With candle 2.4c (Up 1.6)
Candle + body 8.5c (Up 6.1)
Overall made it easier for me to go from a chilled state to a comfortable one, plus pleasant. The lantern with candle weighs 181g
Part 1 is the one man tent, Part 2 is, you guessed it, a two man tent.
Please be very careful if using any naked flames in a tent, UCO recommend that you do not let the candle out of sight or place it near or near any flammable materials. In other words, don't copy me!
Here is a link to much of the equipment I use and trust. I earn a small commission from using this link at no cost to you, so thanks! amzn.to/42MWyvS
I am raising funds to buy an emergency beacon to help keep myself and the youngsters including Scouts I take out safe. Thanks! www.buymeacoffee.com/fellmandave
Good day to you!
This is a senior rider on Honda from Japan.
Enjoying camping and video editing .
Your UCO video is so great !!
Awesome!
Thank you for sharing and full supported !
Have a nice day my friend !!
Domo Arigato! My last motorcycle was a Honda Firestorm. Greetings to Japan, thanks for commenting. It may interest you to know that I have a 1st Dan in Kendo!
Very informative, thank you!
I found in the Internet, that paraffine yields about 12,5 kWh/kg, and a UCO-candle weighs 142 g, and burns for 9 hrs. The energy goes almost completely into heat, the light output can be neglected. Thus, this "heats" with about 200 W, if my calculations were right. A human body "heats" with about 90 W over the day, less when not in motion, when sleeping, more when awake. Hence, you get at least two virtual persons added in your tent.
Good stuff! But feel you calculations for the person output is way too low so for an adult male it is typically 120w. whereas a candle is 90w. Thanks for adding!
@@Fellmandave1 Thanks for your kind response! My estimate was based on 2.000 kcal daily intake. That is about 2.300 kWh, divided by 24 gives about 96 W. Of course, an adult male outdoors consumes far more than 2.000 kcal , so I have to reconsider my calculation 🙂.
The 142g for the candles is for a pack of 3, not the individual candle. So the Lantern roughly doubles the heatoutput in the tent.
If more heat is needed, a gas lantern might be the better option, since it can put out more power and can be adjusted. I.e. the micron from Primus has a peak power of 300W.
It's also a great way to protect cold sensitive plants in winter. I've used 2 layers of bubble wrap arround a ~ 1m³ half sphere with two grave lights (7 day burner oil light) and it made a temp difference of 15°C.
The most important thing is to make sure there're no gaps at the top, so that the hot air can't escape. Otherwise it will pull in cold air from outside.
I just love the warm light the candle gives over the cold light of.most LEDs. Used mine in the High Peak on Thursday.
Cosy!
Thanks of the interesting experiment. The way I measure whether to take up this option is based on weight I carry. I don’t own a UCO candle lantern but amazon shows it as around 200 grams. (7 ounces) plus the candle weight of around 10 grams. It lasts for 9 hours. It’s not the safest option. My emergency micro fleece jumper I carry weighs in at 280 grams. For a little extra weight I have a layer of clothing that will keep me warm and last forever. It will probably save as much body heat, if not more, thatn the candle will throw out. So for me I would carry an the extra layer I carry rather than the light. I also prefer my rechargeable light in shelter as it safer than candles.
Great point Alan. I think what people are looking for is that cheery flame, which hopefully your fleece, effective as it is, will not be providing!
@@Fellmandave1 Yes that is an important point too.
Paraffin wax has byproducts such as benzene. I would use the bees wax ones.
The big difference is that the candle PRODUCES heat, where your extra layer is simply more insulation, and produces nothing.
I’m always up for anything that nudges the temp a bit higher on my camps-I couldn’t cope without my (nalgene) hot water bottle! Even looking at that candle would make me feel a little warmer 😊👍 Thanks for a comprehensive test!
You are most welcome. Nice to have on in the house too so dual purpose. Candles can be a bit pricey though.
I usually just use the lantern to warm my hands. The hot air coming out the top does an amazing job.
That's a great idea!
That's a great practical use for it, your hands are an excellent place to move heat into your body.
Nice video. These candles really come into there own in an emergency. I have carried one for mountaineering for morw than 25 years. If you sit down on a matt/rucksac or whatever and pull a bothy shelter over you head and pull it all in tight: then put the candle between your legs. You can do it with a bivi bag/survival bag etc.. just a have a bit of ventilation. Give it a go. Atb.
I will! Getting to that take a candle time of year. Thanks for commenting.
@@Fellmandave1 did you try it
@@jbradshaw4236 not yet, but thanks for the reminder
thanks, just what I was researching!
Good approach to a sound test, which just confirmed what I've known since the 70s (I'm 68), when I'd just started, after leaving the RAF, and getting outdoors, when an older, the more experienced solo backpacker, who I also used to go rock climbing with, advised me to take a candle with me on my next camp/backpack mostly because it saved on batteries in pre-LED days/hot filament bulb torches with the added advantage it would help to keep a tent warm. Also, though heavier and bulkier than man made fabric tents, the insulation/little or no condensation factor of cotton canvas tents would take the temperature up another 1 or 2 degrees on a nylon tent... hence tents like the legendary Scottish Vango Force 10 range used for mountaineering base camps in Scotland, the Alps and Himalayas etc.
I digress, but in light of the recent and upcoming massive energy price increases, I revisited using terracotta plant pot candle heaters which I last used in my lounge about 5 or 6 years ago over a winter as I was low on funds. It got me thinking about doing something similar for backpacking and base camping (canvas tent for camping) without lugging a plant pot about. Light bulb moment... my mess or cooking kit, and I shot this video a couple of weeks ago. I'm using both of the items in the video in my small lounge now (12'x 10'x8') at 22:06 with one T light in the Swiss Army Volcano Stove with Mini Trangia bowl and three T lights in my DIY Stanley stove with radiator and Mini Trangia lid.
Current outside temp is 7C, lounge temperature is 21.06C. What it's actually doing is transferring the small radiant heat, mostly convectional heat from the flame to the metal so we get less convection and more radiant heat from the set ups. They're about 4' away from me and I can feel the warmth.
I haven't tried it in a tent yet, maybe you could come up with something along similar lines and redo your test, as we're approaching colder conditions.
Obviously if you've limited space in your tent this may be impossible in case it gets knocked over, even so using the UCO the most likely outcome on being knocked over is that the flame would extinguish and the inside would get covered in liquid wax.
My video: czcams.com/video/LhI_EiOfHT0/video.html
Watched it. Very good. If you think about it the candle lantern is providing radiated heat, but as you say, could be added to. Might do it as a test but I love to keep trying different ideas! Cheers and thanks for your most interesting comment.
I remember using birthday candles when I was in my teens in 1 person dugout snow shelter, in -20c weather. With a candle or two and the entrance mostly closed. My body heat plus a candle or two was enough to warm up the space to the point the the ice on the inside would melt a bit.
Anyways a candle is really only useful with the vents 95% closed on a 4 season tent. Plus they can remove some of the condensation.
Happy memories!
That was an interesting video. I don't think that I've seen anyone else perform this experiment.
You can also light the candle by sliding the glass down into the body of the lantern.
Thanks. Just discovered this. Thought I had broken it, then realised had been doing it all wrong! Wont be the last time I guess.
@@Fellmandave1
It's the only model in the UCO range that has that feature.
The Micro, Mini and Candlelier all have to have the top section lifted off the base, to give access to the candle(s).
Great My Friends
I would think that the main controlling factor is if your tent was either a 3 or 4 season tent. A 4 season tent in itself would favor heat retention more than a 3 season tent.
Improvement in insulation from the ground would also weigh in here too. So the small heat being generated by a candle would be retained more by the control of these other factors . Keeping the candle low to the floor of the tent, within some metal container, would also promote heat throughout the tent... Good video.
Thak you. All good points.
theyre handy in winter
True to your word then ! Thanks for posting this. So about 2-3 degree difference by the look of it. The rest comes from my internal 'furnace' like body, in my case fuelled by Aberfeldy 12, though I do love a Jura. Having said that I did use a Nalgene hot water bottle and that may have boosted my temps till the early hours, another experiment?..this could run and run :-)
What it does do is help keep the condensation down a little therefore
keeps that clinging cold dampness in the air down. I use this in my
VE-25 tent a wool American Indian rug on the floor in the winter. Of
course the smaller the tent the more efficient it is I use my SD
Nightwatch convertible 2 person tent motorcycle camping and this works
spot on.
Excellent, and damp air conducts heat faster so makes good sense. Thanks for commenting!
i would restrict the ventilation as much as you can get a away with (get a detector) maybe a small hole by the ground. if you dont mind the candle lantern hanging there when u sleep (i just saw a video of a guy that has been doing it for years), i think the candle(s) will stop any condensation from forming. use a couple 1lb down blankets to cover the walls and ceiling and 2 lanterns. i imagine it would be pretty warm.
Unfortunately rstricting the ventolation will definitely cause the condensation to go up.
Would be interesting to see how it works under a cot / cot tent (preferably the ones with the tarp hanging below the cot to the ground)
I guess it would depend on the draughts...brrr
@@Fellmandave1 what kind of hand warmers where you using? They looked full metal? Anyway thanks from Canada 🇨🇦
@@BigpapamoneymanMVPtypebeat that would be the whitby warmer. Lighter fuel powered. As seen in the recent cairngorm video
Great video thank you!
Can I ask what jacket you are wearing and what your opinion is of it?
Rab Photon, absolutely love it. It is my go to.
@@Fellmandave1 Thanks for your response! I think they may have discontinued it now.
Might be getting one of those candles now the nights are getting colder!
I think that you talking into the tent, and breathing toward the thermometer, possibly also affects the result?
I was very quick to take the measurement on first getting in.
I would like one of these for winter but I'm worried about carbon monoxide or dioxide whichever is the dangerous one. Do you think it'd be an issue?
Hi Lewis, this is a good question. Carbon Monoxide is the dangerous one and a candle will put out a small amount, however chemists say these levels will rise if oxygen levels are low, as it produces mainly CO2 before then. The answer is, ensure the tent is ventilated. Certainly on camps where I have used a wood burning stove with a chimney, i have also used a CO detector., but personally i feel that there is no danger from candle CO in a tent that has some degree of ventilation. The bigger risk is from fire or injury ( or equiment damage). Interesting stuff here : www.explainthatstuff.com/candles.html
@@Fellmandave1 Thanks! Very helpful
I can never find a review of this in actual freezing temps. Frozen lake snow in the ground temps
That would be cool, literally.
I've tried it at home but handle +chain seem too hot to touchng them with bare hands. And what with thin tent layers? Is it still save?
Yes it's fine. The chain makes it sufficient distance
Its mainly a mental thing the orange glow warms you internally
It hard to tell with person body heat in tent but my unit tested candles in tents and found 5degf with vents closed so it’s not much but it’s something.small tents Max 2man low profile. But weight to efficiency better off hot water bottle in sleeping bag
Yes that would correspond with my readings of around 2c. I think most people use them for a rustic sense of fun with reduced heat and humidity a bonus.
@@Fellmandave1 great video 👊🏻
Let me know if a candle lantern is a must have for you when winter camping. Worth the 181g extra?
There has also been some comments on safety especially regarding carbon monoxide. Carbon Monoxide is dangerous and a candle will put out a small amount, however chemists say these levels will rise if oxygen levels are low, as it produces mainly CO2 before then. The answer is, ensure the tent is ventilated. Certainly on camps where I have used a wood burning stove with a chimney, I have also used a CO detector., but personally i feel that there is no danger from candle CO in a tent that has some degree of ventilation. The bigger risk is from fire or injury ( or equiment damage).
I have done some deliberate knocking over ovf a UCO candle lantern to see what the fire risk is and have found the candle either goes out or burns on its side with tehflame covered. i would be possible to smash the glass in a spill and then have a naked flame.
I've read that paraffin candles give off more volatile chemicals than beeswax. There is certainly less soot from beeswax, so in my tent, especially with my kids , I only use beeswax. Its a personal choice and the risk depend on type of candle, additives they may use, frequency and volume of exposure plus ventilation.
Interesting stuff here : www.explainthatstuff.com/candles.html
advice from UCO here: www.ucogear.com/candle-lantern-faq
First time seeing this piece of kit! But it seems very interesting. Going to try to get one shipped to me and try it out!
@@jjSuper1 excellent, enjoy. I am in the garden right now waking up and taking measurements after the 2 man tent overnight experiment. So watch this space for that one.
It doesn't add much heat but it does reduce the moisture in the air inside the tent, which makes the tent much more comfortable. You're not lighting it correctly - it's quite easy, really.
Learnt that since Tom. Thanks for your comment and have a great winter camping.
I have just bought the brass version of the UCO lamp. A similar system of the candle being under spring tension existed in the 19th century in the design of coach lamps, so it is not new. It worked then and it works now. There is something about a real flame that warms the soul and brings cheer.....even if it doesn't warm the body that much. I can't wait to get the caravan or the tent out again. In retrospect we should have completely ignored the lockdown restrictions and gone camping. I still, in 2023, see folk wearing masks despite the fact that a government document states that masks offered no protection against this virus and subsequent strains of the virus. This government has a lot to answer for.
The full brass ones look great David. I would love one. Yes, difficult times for those that love the quiet places, that's why we need to lake use now of every opportunity.
So how did you come up with 80 watts...I see 1900 btu on my literature? Maybe I used the wrong converter?
Hi Phillip, wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candle gives out 80w. I cross checked other sources too. They seem to agree, with tealights being a bit lower, more like 46w. 80w is 273 BTU. So where is 1900 BTU coming from? For their triple lantern they quote 5000 BTU, which, divided by 3 is 1666 BTU. Despite whatever output the lantern is, the experiments I did were faitfully recorded, reflecting real world conditions. Looking on UCO.com I cannot see any ratings for the trad lantern.
I'm wondering seeing this hanging from a tent if it would actually be safe under a folding camp chair for heat.
Oooohhh not so sure. Avoid beans and beer.
@@Fellmandave1 haha. Beans okay, but I'm drawing the line at beer
Just to add the mini tea candle version is a total POS I had one that the bottom fell out all over my sleeping bag at night.
The base does not lock in solid like the old school model.
Good of ended badly. Quality of the tea lights too is very inconsistent. Thanks for commenting Big.
Learn how to use it first
To Fail is the First Attempt In Learning
Your explanation is totally ad-hoc and unscientific. Temperature changes hour by hour during the night. It'd make a bit more sense to have two side by side tents one with and one without candle.
Hi Javier, thanks for your perspective. I tried to control the conditions as much as possible, for instance using a double walled tent. Plus this represents real conditions, where over the time period of the experiment, the outside temperature changed very little, I measured it as 0.5 c change before and after, that is why I chose a calm still night, several hours after sunset too. Wind would have been a bigger factor. Certainly the changes in the tent would be viewed as statistically significant. You missed out on the big factor, which ws opening the tent door to get in and do the measurements! Of course, no experiment is perfect and it is the responsibility of the scientiic community to critically analyse an experiment and repeat it with improvements. For instance, your suggestion of having a control tent is a good one, but you would need an identical model and remote temperature probes to eliminate the door opening factor. Putting them in a climate chamber would be better. I would forward to seeing your results!
Oh sorry, I thought this section was for comments. All praise to you then.
Calm down everybody. It's just tents and candles my friends.