Come to my attention Smoovers removed his initial video on Left 4 Dead 2, I gave my opinions and had my disagreements with the video in question however that isn't an open invitation to harass him and his other partners on videos that don't pertain to Left 4 Dead or Back 4 Blood Please have some civility and don't go out of way to give Smoovers grief, take my response for what it is and just leave it alone.
"B4B is better because it has more infected." "B4B is better because it has more guns." "B4B is better because it has more characters." "L4D has too many maps." How can someone make an argument like that and not realize the absurdity?
Don't get why you got to shit on B4B's weapons and attachments when they were literally the only good thing that was fun besides the card mechanic (even if variety was meh)
@@Nepgearaf the attachments, not really. Neither were the gun rarities, it's as artificial as the difficulty of the game. And a lot of the guns simply didn't have their own identity, more doesn't mean better and B4B exemplified this perfectly. The gunplay was good. Actually a lot of the gameplay was good. It's the actual game, concept and execution that were sub-par. Also the card mechanic was, yet again, forced and artificially changed the outcomes of a round. Trying to blend together the arcadey formula with RPG elements probably wasn't a good idea, it's like trying to blend an RPG and a roguelike. They're contradictory.
Anyone who thought B4B was going to be something was mindless. The fact that he’s still making content for it is just downright pathetic at this point. It was a blatant cash grab from the start.
The part where Smoovers claims that L4D2 not having a shop is a supposed "solution to an unbalanced mechanic by not having it at all" is baffling to me. He said that shit like people were clamoring for some kind of Killing Floor esque shop system in L4D1 and then L4D2 gave those people a middle finger - when in reality this was not a "problem" to begin with.
It'd be like going to a liquor store, and then asking where the tire department is. "Sir..this is a liquor store. We specialize in beer, wine, and spirits..." "GAH! Typical...you guys thought the solution to having to manage a tire department was just to not have one at all!" No? They just...don't have tires because it doesn't fit their business, and none of their customers are in the market for tires with their case of beer? Much in the same way L4D2 doesn't have a shop not because they didn't want to balance it...because a shop doesn't fit a zombie survival co-op shooter where you're always on the move? Both gameplay-wise and thematically it makes no sense.
@@sooz6092 According to this very video (and what keyframes I could see on Smooverz video without playing it), the only cover footage from Smooverz has is from half of Dead Centre and a bit of Left 4 Dead 1. That's an exceptionally short amount of time for a game. Even less so if he's an avid B4B player since he's gotten over B4B's learning curve without even getting half-way through L4D2s. e.g. the choice between pistols/Magnum and melee weapons. There is a reason someone like Josh Strife Hayes gives every MMO 6 hours of playtime total to sell themselves to him. Not the same kind of game, I admit but there is no playing favourites. The rules are applied to all.
"you have no reason to choose a character because they're all the same" mfw expressing yourself through choosing a character that you feel best represents you, your personality or just your likings doesn't exist
it's like saying you have no reason to buy skins in any modern game nowadays, like yeah, doesn't affect gameplay, but if you want to express yourself with it then go ahead
@@apricity_avi the fact that he says this when coach exists is criminal. He can go have fun with his half baked low quality imitation, You and I will have fun with our cheeseburger apocalypse and hot apple pie.
@@collinsmith7143 "I ever tell you about the time my buddy Keith fell down an open manhole? He was unconscious down there for like a week. Durin' that time, unbeknowst to Keith, they paved over him."
it doesn't make sense because they all have diff personalities which means they aren't the same that's like saying john marston and arthur morgan are the same, it doesn't make sense
Funny thing is that the statement is still wrong if you account for the AI Survivor’s assigned weapon preferences. Zoey/Ellis for their respective casts will default to marksmen weapons like the Hunting Rifle once present and with how the AI for survivors draws its roots from Counter Strike, the two when not played by humans are prone to getting swarmed by commons, not making the best use of their preferred primaries as they keep switching back to their dual pistols for everything that gets close. Also they’ll gladly grab those godawful CS:S ported snipers.
It's actually a pretty apt description lmao Shoot em up - Technically, you shoot blocks down. But you are still shooting something. RPG - The game has a levelling system and even an inventory where you hold a block temporarily. Open world - Tetris stacks are pretty open ended for the most part. Survival horror - The horror of not playing like an idiot
“Left 4 Dead 2 is just a cinematic walking simulator” is such a bad take I feel like I need to watch this wearing a HAZMAT suit so I don’t get radiation poisoning
Talks about how good the shadows from the flashlights are in B4B, footage of L4D CLEARLY demonstrates that it's shadows are better. Especially that closeup of Luis' face getting lit up by muzzle flashes and him squinting as a result.
@carljohan9265 I didn't mention it in the video but when I actually was getting the footage for both games I realized one clearly has better lighting and shadows than the other
friend of mine, but he just likes it as just a zombie shooter more than anything. He doesn't play video games much anyways, he has two kids and he spends his time goofing off with them when he's off of work
@@loonyjaisen of course, there will always be people who will get mad at you for liking things they don't like but there's a big difference between saying you prefer something, which in itself is harmless, and saying said thing is better than others cuz [insert rant here]
@@elsadmafioso And it doesn't help that all their video did was likely just bring more negativity towards Back 4 Blood, the game's literally dead in terms of development and has nothing to show for it whatsoever when it comes to community supported content, whereas Left 4 Dead 2 in complete contrast has the Steam Workshop which allows you to download community made content whenever you want "tired of the official campaigns?" download some custom campaigns like Bloody Moors, Dead Before Dawn, I Hate Mountains, etc. The chap literally acted like L4D2 has zero going for it in all categories when in reality it's Back 4 Blood that has nothing going for it in all categories.
@@cursedhawkins1305 agreed. it shows that it's the community, not the developers, who carry the game forward also, I've played Bloody Moors, but not the other two caompaigns you mentioned. they any good? 🤔
@@elsadmafioso Dead Before Dawn? Yeah, it's good because it's pretty much based on the movie Mall of the Dead, I think that's the name and it did come with custom music to match the campaign, but I don't know if it was ever fixed because last time, I played it the music was straight up broken and didn't work at all. I Hate Mountains is also good because it's the only custom campaign that I know of that has different paths exist on the same map without the director needing to influence which is generated first and it's also the only campaign or at least was the first to do this that featured a seaplane (you know those ones with the floating things (I forget what they're called) on the bottom) as the rescue vehicle instead of the traditional boat, helicopter, plane, etc and I believe was the first to do double tanks for the finale. Both were even made back in Left 4 Dead 1 and were more or less ported to Left 4 Dead 2 and in my opinion, they still hold up even with the different mechanics that Left 4 Dead 2 brought to the table.
honestly i think the best way u can summarize that dude's video is either he's trolling really really hard or he's coping hard af about the failure of B4B
And about the more = better philosophy of his. There is a saying in my language that nearly translates into" Where is abundance,there is shit." How should a player react efficiently to 23 unique monsters .The thing I love about valve games is their use of silhouettes when making their characters. Every single one is clearly visible in any kind of situation.
Dude, valve is like famous for only putting out high-quality productions. I don’t even need to talk about the fact that there’s no half-life three or lfd three because they themselves said there’s nothing else to add 💚
@@GreenEyedDazzlerTake the special Infected for an example. In l4d they punished stragglers but in 2 they also punish the overilance of bunching together in one area. Forcing survivors to spread out somewhat. The main question with a l4d3 is how do you really add to the infected roster in a way that isnt already a role covered by one that already exists? It's near impossible with how well l4d2 is designed.
@@superbrainz2357 kinda reminds me of Axl from the Mega Man X series, specifically X8, where there's no good reason to pick Axl over X because they both have the same gameplay (avoiding direct combat and shooting energy weapons) and the only difference is Axl has no armor upgrade until the post game and his boss weapons are terrible.
"You have no reason to choose a character because they're all the same." I bet in Back 4 Blood, you have no reason to choose a character beyond the Meta Characters because the rest suck to play as.
And your point is? Turtle Rock didnt make CS either. How is that even relevant? Valve bought and refined the CS mod and turtle rock made a coop vs horde mod of their property. Instead of suing them into the ground like Nintendo would valve saw the potential in their basic pve mode and helped them improve it. Valve is the only reason L4D grew into something bigger. Not only were the majority of the team from valve but it was they who wrote the characters to be likeable, balanced the game and it was they who allowed and endorsed players to mod their game for even more replay value (something TRS didnt even consider for B4B!) TRS only "created" L4D in the way in that they had a simple framework and valve was the only one that would listen to them and give them a chance to make their idea...good. TRS claiming all the credit as "the creators of L4D" (yet doing no effort to live up to its standards) is like me drawing a stick figure of Mona Lisa on Leonardo's canvas just for him to appear & think its a "interesting concept" and then draw a proper version of it himself but with actual skill and passion put into it. Then when nobody wants to buy my next generic stick figure i claim the honor of "being the creator of Mona Lisa" just to boost my sales and give buyers false expectations. Yes, in this made up scenario I (TRS) technically came up with the idea but it was Leonardo (valve) who made it something people actually enjoyed enough to return to. (Speaking of which, Kojima technically didnt originally create Metal Gear, he was "only" the reason it went down in history as something more than just the Contra clone it was originally supposed to be) If i were TRS i would never dream of leaving valve. I would be gratefull if i could continue to ride and depend on their talent and well deserved fame. From a buissness perspective thats just a free ride to success when you are associated with almost universally respected developers, and from a artistic perspective it would be the biggest honour in the world for me to have a place among such talented people to either help or take inspiration from. Thats not to say that L4D is perfect or that you're wrong for liking B4B. If you enjoy it im happy for you. But nothing pisses me off more than deceptive reviews with double standards or when developers dont show any signs of grattitude for the oppurtunity and position they've been given. It just feels so disrespectful.
@@johnsupergeil7098 Can’t think of more than one or two that’s rooted in the fault of modern games, besides sometimes those types of games are just a persons taste. Problem with video guy is that he’s an asshole.
@@johnsupergeil7098Yeah, "LFD needs a shop" this is legitamitely consumerism brain rot and we should've rallied with pitch forks over the horse armor.
@@prozoac9454 Yeah the blatant disregard of a lot of crowbcats points in that video was just disingenuous. The videos whole point was to show that turtle rock while having a base idea mainly had l4d be a success by valve aiding them and putting so much effort and detail into the game that it's still talked about nearly 20 years later that several games have tried following its footsteps for success. The fact that he barely even used l4d2 in that video and only 1 which turtle rock was more involved in makes it even more damaging for the supposed "creators of l4d" which were only like 5 people.
@@eriv0idToo bad we could never meet him to get that m60 he was packing in the passing. Oh well I guess he was too busy dealing with zombies pouring out of the space time contiuum on his lawn.
Yeah the b4b characters are all forgettable while the l4d ones are so iconic they've been in other games like dead by daylight with bill and as skins in the zombie army games. B4b isnt even close in the l4d styled game genre as ones like the vermintide cast (imo the best of the bunch. An amazing blend of comedic banter and genuine emotions from their flaws coming out) bury them alive in terms of characters.
@@obamahostile4073 They all play off of each other really well, that's what makes the L4D2 Cast work. Rochelle is usually trying to be the straight man, keeping the team together. (Or woman in this case) Nick is the snarky one of the group, usually butting heads with either Rochelle or Ellis a lot of the time, resulting in pretty amusing dialogue between the two as they banter. Ellis is just all around goofy with a soft side. And then there's Coach. Coach is Coach. Nothing else needs to be said about him. Mr. One Man Cheeseburger Apocalypse.
When I look at the pictures he shows of the enemies in B4B, I am sure most of them I would not recognize as being special infected but just a different skin for regular infected, until they suddenly start using special attacks or something like that
@@marcotruschel9427 I mean for some of them it's hard to tell, but there's pretty obvious visual ques (ones in which you can even change the colour of) for most of them, certainly not as distinctive as L4Ds however
TBF, I'm probably about the same age as him and thought his video was weird and malinformed and I got very stinky pseudo-intellectual vibes when I watched it. Games don't need to be more complicated to be more fun. Just look at Minecraft; it's a big game, sure, and it's complicated as a whole, but the core idea of re-arranging blocks, crafting them into other blocks and tools, and the player using these blocks and tools for self-preservation and expression in a big world is very simple to engage with. Minecraft became successful even when it was early in development and had only a fraction of the content that it did today because the simple ideas of exploring, building, and fighting were so good that they didn't need more content to shine. Then, the game improved further as some more content was added over time. Yet, while many enjoy the latest version of minecraft, some would argue that it's not the greatest due to all the "bloat" that has entered over the years; useless copper ore veins displacing iron ore veins, a plethora of randomly generated structures and challenges making the game feel too "lived in" and less like an abandoned wilderness simulator, the new music crowding out the old music and sounding good but different enough that the game can feel like it's living a double life, etc. More just isn't always better, and while I've never played B4B, I wouldn't criticize an older game for having less features.
@@ToastySNXZ That would help. Although if he is used to modern games, he'll probably use modern excuses to not play them. Things along the lines of "it's old, the graphics are bad, and it doesn't have *these* (insert bloated game design choice here)." Kind of like how he said in the video that Unreal Engine was *so* good and obviously better compared to the "grunge of Source."
At first when watching his video I was like "this is bait". Then he started saying stuff about l4d2 that is blatantly untrue and talking about how good b4b is in a serious tone, and I was like "this kid is for real". I was so upset obviously that I left comment about how he totally has no idea what the AI Director does and didn't even bother watching my video despite putting it in his video.
Please don't be upset by people's opinions about videogames on the internet haha And I liked your video! I thought the system was very cool and well-designed to enhance the interest curve of L4D2. But, I do still feel it makes the game more movie-like.
saying l4d2 is a walking simulator is like saying tf2 is a open world fps is like saying postal is a 2d arcade platformer is like saying the stanley parable is like a isometric arcade shooter is like saying back4blood is actually a good game
By far the worst take I've ever heard. How can the game be a walking sim if the whole premise of the game is working as a team to overcome a hoard to get to an exit. If simply walking from point A to point B is what makes a game a walking sim, then majority of games are walking sims. Hell, Doom would be a walking sim by his standards.
yeah, if it was a walking sim then you wouldn't have to shoot at the zombies right? just walk past them and you would be safe? honestly, i think the description "walking sim" is to broad that it doesn't really work when categorizing games because too many fall into that category in a technical sense
@@channel45853 a walking sim is a game where you walk with no other objectives and the main entertainment comes from the storytelling, so The Stanley Parable, Firewatch, etc. basically, a walking sim is just an audiobook in the same way a visual novel is a choose your own adventure book
I feel like he's trying to cope with the fact none of his friends want to play b4b, the game is a failure in almost every way, and that everyone wants to play L4d. He probably went into this game expecting to hate it and hated it. If his video is bait, it's terrible because all of the 'problems' he's pointing out are non-existent, or just don't matter.
@@channel45853 Yeah why you think I said 'I feel'. Besides, you're acting as If I said he was a nazi, all I said was he got his feelings hurt because no one likes b4b. 'What you feel like doesn't matter since you have no proof'🤓Like shut the fuck up bro, who do you think you are. This a CZcams comment section about L4d, not a scientific journal talking about dark matter. Proof is irrelevant here. Beside it doesn't even matter, cause you're the one who is making this a problem, you're acting as if I am speculating that he murdered someone. 'I feel' means I think, which also means I hypothesized. I'm not asserting for a fact, that he got his feelings hurt, I basically said I think he got his feelings hurt. Even then, I acknowledge that the video might be bait, which also points towards what I said not being absolutely 100% fact.
he probably bought the ultimate edition for 100 Euro, played more than 2 hours, none of his friends wanted to play it because they know it sucks, and then saw that the game is on sale for 90% off until the 24th
Him saying that the characters in L4D2 have little character has got to be the one of the stupidest points ever. Did you watch the opening cutscene? Did you have your audio turned on? Did you actually play the phyucking game?
Both sets of survivors have so much personality baked into them and I've only played maybe an hour total of l4d2 and just listening to the banter and the opening shows me that much. Normal also isn't a walking simulator. Commons are weak as dirt but special infected are quite dangerous when they seem to preferably target the human player. If you are good with your shooter mechanics though hard or expert are probably better places to start just because l4d2 isn't a particularly difficult game overall.
This is quite literally like skipping every cutscene in a game, rushing through the story as fast as you humanly can and ignoring every dialogue and plot elements. Then saying "man the story is shit". That's one quick and easy way to be factually wrong.
@@mwperk02 there is literally so much banter you might not even hear e verything even after numerous hours, it took me tons of tries during a L4D1 Map to here Francis make a joke about a gas station name and Zoey going 'Ha, farting'.
How does somebody even miss out on THAT MUCH dialogue for blud to come to that conclusion?! Even their gameplay audio cues tend to have their personalities baked into their callouts.
the dude clearly hasn't just enjoyed a proper game before , you could tell just from him talking about l4d2 needing a weapons shop and that you needed to get an external chart to understand a weapon that he has never sat down and enjoyed a real game
It reeks of somebody who only played modern games, and thinks older games are somehow "inferior" because they aren't flashy or mashed full of generic mechanics slapped into every game nowadays without care for balance or whatnot, like sprint and aim-down-sights. We always joked about the next generation growing up thinking $20 cosmetics and lootboxes and a battle-pass and junk in a $70 game is just normal, and now I think we're starting to see the first real case of that happening, to a lesser extent.
@@EZ-Flix Aaaaannnd because I GUARANTEE you he's going to delete his video due to sheer humiliation, I just took the liberty of downloading it. Sucks to be him! ;)
@@EZ-Flix If ya wanna do it yourself, I sadly can't mention the name of the program directly (comment would be deleted instantly) but if you search the capitalized letters in the following random sentence in one sequence, you'll find it. :) 'mY Tears are DeaLt with Pigs'.
Bro's argument is literally "More is more. Look we have more guns/zombies/whatever. Our game good, your game bad, right?" And I'm not even sure the point 'b4b has more variety' would hold up if really put to scrutiny
Starfield is the shining star example (pun intended) that more is almost never objectively better. "This game has 1000 planets, it's gotta be a better RPG than New Vegas which had like...only a small square area of a single planet, right?"
@@fearlesswee5036 I can't get over how they pulled the player character being the "starborn" and getting powers. I will never get tired of people thrashing starfield.
@@fearlesswee5036 I find that funny, because Daggerfall manages to be a great game while offering a lot of emptiness and scale. Starfield doesn't really have any of what made Daggerfall work.
He gives that vibe of that one dude that gets homework working on an essay about two opposing parties and uses ChatGPT because he doesn't even care to research about the other party. Bro has so many contradictions he would make Phoenix Wright a millionaire
Heck when people say l4d2 has no story there just flat out ignoring the dialouge and environmental storytelling. The survivors got together at the hotel after the helicopter leaves and while getting to know each other they discover on a ceda map that New Orleans is the last possible option they have, hence why the whole game is them traveling through the south to reach it. The other levels show the mishaps along the way and why they arent sage after immediate evac with stuff like the dialouge about Nick shooting the zombie pilot. Granted that's a basic summary and it's simple but IT IS THERE for the people who simply pay attention.
@@superbrainz2357 I still wish left 4 dead had cutscenes tho mainly at the beginning and end of the each campaign the environmental storytelling and dialogue proves L4D does have more of an elaborate story than people give it credit for, but still I feel like not having actual cutscenes made us miss out on some good dialogue (the unused no mercy cutscene for example)
@@superbrainz2357 the game literally has developing character arcs too. Rochelle starts loving to use a gun, Coach holds his team more dear to him, Ellis has some smart ideas and Nick starts to tolerate and even respect everyone more and more. Hell in the later campaigns if him and Ellis are left alive he'll say "Hey, Ellis? Don't let me down." if Ellis dies he can say "Hey Ellis y'know that shit I was sayin'? I was just joking, right?", AND if Ellis dies when it's just him and himself, he'll say ""Hey Ellis, you know all those things I said? I was kidding."
@@woobgamer5210Yeah and in the earlier levels you can tell Nick definetly rubs Coach the wrong way with snide remarks and attitude but later on how much they banter jokingly with eachother. The l4d2 cast is really so well done it's no wonder l4d inspired games like vermintide put so much time into the characters and their lines to make it stand out and make the characters actually feel like people.
Then later in the elevator, the characters introduce themselves and everything. After finishing that first level, they call each other by name, while the first level, they refer to each other with nicknames like, "Suit", "Young'un", "Sweetie", etc. Honestly, this is great.
saying that Left 4 Dead 2 is a walking simulator is like saying that TF2 is a roleplaying game (you have 9 unique classes, so it's just like Space Station 13) and that CS2 is a David Cage game (it barely has any story and if you don't complete a quick time event fast enough, your character dies)
I have to start with "what is this dude smoking?" A walking simulator is generally defined as a game where you do *nothing* but walk, and explore/discover/experience a linear narrative, maybe solving the odd puzzle along the way. They are designed to be very laid-back, relaxing, and simple experiences aimed more about showing you a detailed/interesting world to view, with a focus more on narrative over gameplay. This is like, the opposite of what L4D2 is; a high-octane, fast-paced zombie co-op FPS where you can live or die based on every decision you make each moment, devoid of puzzles and without a real focus on narrative (there is a story and complex well-written characters, but not a real scripted or linear narrative front-and-center as with a walking simulator.) Yes, L4D2 is a bad walking simulator, in the way Fallout: New Vegas is a terrible RTS. Because it's not an RTS, and isn't trying to be...it's trying to be a well-written and detailed open world RPG...which it succeeds spectacularly at. That guy is just a B4B fanboy coping with B4B being universally panned and failing, or a really bad troll. Also, this clown really brought up "bigger number = better, I win." as if it were a valid argument? "Your one fresh-baked apple pie may be delicious, but I have ONE HUNDRED feces pies! Clearly, I win." This has to be satire, this is so perfectly stupid and inaccurate it feels calculated.
I guess Turtle Rock really needed their number 1 fan to speak up for their mistake of a game. I know that they fixed some of the issues of the early days, but the game is still largely inferior to L4D just because L4D did so many more things better. From what I understand, he tries to play L4D like he plays Back 4 Blood, and thinks the game is shallow because of that, and then tries to dunk of features he doesn't even understand the inner workings of. Like the guns having stats in back 4 blood... That's cool and all, but most players who enjoy L4D don't want to spend hours comparing guns. Plus, the only stat you usually care about in L4D is "Does the gun kill zombies, and does it feel good to use". I don't use the scar because I don't like the burst in L4D, but that doesn't make the scar bad per say.
@@GreenEyedDazzler Personally, I prefere the M16. It is precise, and shoots as much as required. I don't mind the AK, but yeah, it's still not a huge change, it's just slight stat changes.
The SCAR is more of a long-range pick with the least accuracy drop on movement vs the M16 & AK. Its damage isn't good, its burst can be a problem, but it has large magazines. I like L4D because the weapons and maps compliment each other enough to make particular guns really effective in specific circumstances. Back4Blood however sounds really boring, what's so fun about customising a gun to handle any situation? The CZcamsr says it best, spending minutes min-maxing your gear after a supply dump is not fun.
Quality over quantity is a lost concept on a lot of people, but usually you can explain it easily with simple terms. "Would you rather have 10 pies made of feces? Or one apple pie?" "What? Ew! I'll take the one apple pie!" "So you agree that having a smaller number of quality items is better than a great number of inferior quality items?"
There's only a few reasons he could have completely missed the mark this hard. 1. He was paid to advertise B4B 2. You paid him to do it so that you can make a perfect counter argument for content.
thats why i play it splitscreen, so i have room to fuck up and make mistakes and LEARN without 3 teammates treating it like the end of the world @@tj9944
@@tj9944 also halfway into a round it is likely your entire team may leave out of nowhere one after another without any explanation beforehand if you are all losing a lot of people are also very skilled and will make playing the game living hell especially if you are infected with their sniper rifles and bunnyhopping
@@tj9944 i mean Versus has a lot of teamwork and strategy you can't just "walk" forward and expect to win ,no you're gonna be left alone and easily killed, and kicked lol if you think Left 4 Dead 2 is a walking simulator then all of the FPS games are walking sims too
I did in fact play Versus mode, and I enjoyed it relatively more than solo mode. And I admit in the original video that this is really the only point in the crowbcat video where I agree L4D2 is objectively better. I was talking about the campaign, though.
I love the bit of showing the difference between special infected in both games. B4B reminds me of that regular show clip of the same D&D-esque figurine with different skins.
It feels like Smoovers didn't even watch the video he was referencing. And I think the fact the Crowbcat uses the first game to make his points especially; is just to really drive home how big the differences are considering the time between the two and the lack of refinement a sequel brings to the table. Pitiful really.
my take on this is just that this guy hasnt touched higher difficulties thats not me going "skill issue!!!!!!!" but yes easy mode and normal mode on certain campaigns ARE walking simulators with the occasional straightforward shooting but the moment you touch realism or advanced/expert, you often have to BACKTRACK (the inverse of "walking simulator" gameplay) in order to save a teammate, get to a safer point to fight a tank, etc also the majority of his video is talking about crowbcats video, which is *about production quality, not gameplay design* so he hasnt played l4d2 at the difficulty that allows for fun gameplay for experienced fps players, AND his only other reference is a video talking about the non-gameplay elements of the series hes literally pointing to a video primarily about the games graphics and going "look!1!1!1!! the game is only graphics!!!!!"
Crowbcat's video is about some gameplay design though. The "Audio cues" section, for instance, was expressing that B4B's special infected only have muddled zombie noises as their audible "tell", which is hard to tell apart when there's multiple of them lurking around you, whereas L4D saw this problem coming and solved it with unique musical cues. Also, the flashlight section wasn't just about flashlight graphics, but the gameplay choice of it being attached to your weapon, which makes you a little more blind during reloads and incentivizes you to reload when you're team is watching you. There are some "fluff" elements that the folks at Valve put in, but there's also some elements with real gameplay ramifications, if a bit subtle sometimes.
People who say left 4 dead 2 is an unrealistic expectation of your survivability in the apocalypse have clearly never played expert realism where you tend to fear the commons more than the special infected.
you shouldn't have to play above the "normal" difficulty though, normal should be enough to make a judgement on the game, hard mode is for people who want a harder challenge whom already like the game
You're correct! I believe that the "Normal" difficulty should give me an accurate representation of the gameplay for a beginner coming into the game. And if it didn't, well, that's not really my fault, now. Also, my video was a direct response to the crowbcat video, which is why I focused on weird things like the flashlights and audio cues. I wouldn't have harped on them if he hadn't.
Also another note. How is it a movie? Like yeah it has a zombie film theme and some cinematic choices for visuals but he says it like the game rips control out of your hands every 5 seconds to make you watch a lengthy dialog. It is non stop quick paced strategy risk and reward. One false move you can get pinned downed or worse an entire team downed.
Never taking control away from the player is literally Valve's entire philosophy. Looking at literally any of their games shows they've been following this pretty closely
@@TheeDeathCaster Are you referring to taunt kills, or? Because the player can opt to not use those, and they're meant more as a joke anyway If you're referring to the terrible balancing, well that's not what I meant. I meant as in, not being able to control your character akin to watching a cutscene.
He should change his name to either smoovebrain or strawman because jesus fucking christ, how does he not see these linear ass biased arguments he makes.
This is like taking someone who's only eaten McDonald's their entire life and givng them a proper steak dinner, confronted with the absolute slop they've been consuming, they have to grasp and cope and complain about why is it even good.
So let me get this straight. He complained about LFD being Cinematic but then later argues that the Director (the most randomized and varied entity in the game) is a bad thing?
I hate it when people try to act like a character is automatically good, just because their story has multiple layers and moving parts. Yes, that’s definitely a positive when done right, but that doesn’t instantly make the character great. A character with a simple and straight forward story isn’t a bad thing, and Left 4 Dead 2 is a great example of that, since it builds character through personality and wit via dialogue.
Even then I'd argue the L4D2 characters do have layers. Nick is a great example, he starts hating everyone and the south and whatnot, but over-time he shares in fun harmless banter with Ellis, and he even has lines of dialogue for when Ellis dies, admitting they didn't part on the best of terms and he actually misses him. For those of you who somehow haven't played L4D2 yet, this isn't a spoiler. Any character can die at any time. There's only one "canon" character death and I won't spoil that.
@@fearlesswee5036 Nick also has lines for when it's only him and one other survivor left. He drops a lot of the smug attitude and genuinely wants them to survive. Others have also pointed out that in the intro he's the one to immediatly help Ellis when a jockey gets him and his attitude towards Francis changes when he finds Bill's body. I'd go so far as to argue that he is debately the best character in l4d because you can actively see his character develop over the levels
@@snakewithacomputer849It also helps that they react pretty appropriately depending on circumstances. If the groups all alive they banter and you get some pretty funny bits when they survive events like the dark carnival crescendo events. However if some are dead they become more serious and focused and you see who they really are. It's the seemingly shallow but deeper when casually examined details that make the l4d or something like the vermintide cast so enjoyable while b4b just comes off as tryhardish.
Left 4 dead 2 arguably has a better story and more fleshed out characters with more voicelines. Also this guy needs to realize that less is more sometimes.
@@toxic_shr00m yah they clearly had more direction of what they wanted to do with l4d2's story and had more in depth voicelines that fleshed out the characters more so than l4d
@@distinguishableusername I know, that's why I said "Arguably?" since I don't really think it's something that can be argued against. It's just like, an objective fact.
@@toxic_shr00m I suppose he said "arguably" because art is subjective, and one person might prefer one thing over another... that said, back 4 blood isn't art, so yeah it's not arguable.
Don't forget that changing difficulty also changes special AI to react faster to your existence. Like the smokers line of sight to actually attack is way shorter on expert almost instant but on normal or easy it could take 2 to 3 seconds for him to throw it out
Honestly, despite Crowbat doing extensive research and show how much art, soul and dedication has been put into Left 4 Dead and still dont understand why devs added the little things like music to body animation of the infected. Really hurts to hear. Cant hate someone for liking Back 4 Blood But i can be sad about it because they dont get the point (Or maybe hes baiting who knows but if hes legit, im more worried with his other reviews) I wouldnt trade my experience for the first time playing the game on Xbox Chased by a tank, leaving your sister behind on No Mercy Hospital to escape, laughing to Ellis stories because the dev of L4D knows how to extract that emotion out of you.
Back 4 Blood would have been a great advancement for the genre if it didn't take so many steps back in both gameplay, character design, and frankly the grind.
I had posted a comment on smoovers' video but there was no way to write as much text about how his take is just invalid (some of it I accept since it's subjective, but there's A LOT of objectively incorrect and invalid info in his video). Thanks for making this video!
15:35 It's amazing that guy forgot that he argued in L4D2 you can't expect the same thing every time because it can change the amount of enemies and in B4B you know what to expect, but then said "players get the same experience every time" in L4D2 because it's a movie
>literally mentions the Director who fluxuates difficulty and has randomization that makes every new runthrough unique >says L4D2 has the same experiemce every time
Whatever Smoovers is on right now, i recommend that he lowers the dosage This reminds me of a drama about some shmuck who called out a youtuber called Noclick for criticizing a half-life modpack
And thinking that Noclick did it on bad terms, yet the mod creator straight up CRINGED at the mod so badly after finding out all of it's problems he took it down
Smoovers is the example of the ideal customer. he has been trained to feel pleasure for each DLC and Battle pass bought, like a pavlovian dog. He will defend your ship, even while it sinks into bankruptcy.
"ermmm i must humbly disagree with your statement about the survivors not having a meta, Coach and Bill are the meta survivors, S tier badasses that are the best, everyone else is mid, I rest my case about the survivor meta"
The more I heard Smoover yap on and on about B4B, the more boring and generic it sounded. I like L4D becuase it's very pick up and play, and there is obviously nuance to the gameplay, but anyone playing a video game for the first time could pretty easily figure out L4D, while B4B sounds like you have to read a shit ton of stats and descriptions to even have an understanding of what is happening.
it's like the counter strike vs valorant thing, complexity is fine to have in a game but the entry skill level sucks for valorant because there's line-ups, so many stuff exploding, flying, covering the screen it's hard for a new player to even make sense like MOBAs complexity only rewards those who put in the time, but how much time will any given player willing to give or have? l4d main complexity is in teamwork, a proper team of survivors bulldozes everything in expert and bad team dies in easy but the game gives both a game to play and not a spreadsheet to review
12:23 L4D actually had a weapon upgrade system in beta but was scrapped in development. Some modded servers actually restored this functionality and it's documented on The Cutting Room Floor. Also if you look at beta L4D a lot of the stuff from Back 4 Blood kinda makes sense. IIRC one of the special infected in B4D is like the Screamer in beta L4D, cut for being too confusing for the play-testers. Beta L4D's cast looks completely different than retail as well, with the beta version looking way more well-prepared for the apocalypse, like the cleaners in B4D.
On the topic of special infected L4D has it better since he left out the uncommon infected. In L4D for those who Don't know there's commons, just the angry slappy zombies, special infected, the usual menaces with distinct abilities and purpose, but then there are the Uncommon infected, such as mud men, zombies that fling mud at the player obscuring their vision or the riot zombie who you have to attack the back, these are more bigger ones but then there's also the clown zombie who will run away making squeaking sounds that draw in zombies and also downed survivor who will run if you do him damage but if you manage to kill him he will give you supplies, these uncommons don't appear on every level or even every time but their unique appearance spices up the gameplay each time.
Kind of a side note about the characters. I didn't care about a single one of b4b's characters. I played all the way through the base campaign, and Holly is the only character whose name I can remember and thats only because I found her annoying. I will now write what I think the other characters names were based on memory. Fat guy with vest: Hoffman Black guy with red hat: Marcus Emo girl: Luna Old lady: Carol Asian lady: Kim That is all the characters I can remember from memory at this time Edit: Writing this after finishing the video(good video btw) and I really gotta hand it to smoover. Until he made that video I don't know if I've ever seen an objectively wrong opinion. Jokes aside, he's coping hard, and I don't know how he came away from l4d with such a bad outlook, but I hope he revisits it and changes his mind one day.
Meanwhile Left 4 Dead's characters: Bill: Vietnam veteran and team leader Francis: Tough yet sarcastic Biker dude Louis: Naive but kind hearted office employee Zoey: Young college student fighting to survive Left 4 Dead 2: Ellis: Southener and a clumbsy kid, that has many stories to share Nick: Mostly an Asshole, but has come to far to give up now Coach: Positive high school coach who also loves food Rochelle: News reporter who also provides the morale of the team
Well, if "more means better" it's a shame that this guy Smoovers missed L4D2's workshop, 'cause it has: - Unlimited characters. - Unlimited weapons. - Unlimited soundtracks. - Unlimited campaigns. - Unlimited enemies. - Unlimited animations. - Unlimited game modes. - Unlimited gameplay mechanics. - Unlimited graphic options. - Unlimited intros. - Unlimited sound effects. - Unlimited HUDs - Unlimited...... well . .... uh.... you get the idea. Unlimited content as the comunity makes it grow. At this point in L4D2, if something exists, it can be changed.
lol yeah but then he complains about L4D2 having more Campaigns also I don't think it miss it I think he thinks it doesn't matter cuz B3B doesn't have a workshop
Thanks man I'm still surprised that it started catching on like it was. Of course it isn't Mr.Beast numbers or nothing but every time I check it keeps climbing up.
Great analysis of an extremely narrow-minded and linear take on my beloved Left 4 Dead. It is baffling that his opinion isn't satire with how many flaws it has. Take a subscription from me.
@@Stoplookingathatistolethis the kid is practically saying games NEED weapon shops, charts for weapons, and for weapons to have big numbers that go up. Oh, and also, a colored tiering system ala Fortnite. these are all features that newer games use. newer games are enjoyed by zoomers. its not that complicated.
we gotta stop intensely justifying our reasons for liking or disliking a game otherwise you get such videos that try *way* too hard to tell you "X is bad, therefore you should hate it".
very much agreed. Especially (tho a bit unrelated) when people go as far as claiming whoever enjoy X thing is problematic in some way (kind of like the "videogame manke you violent" bullcrap)
imagine not paying attention to the game and trying to say 'it has no story' or that 'all the characters are the same' it has the same vibe as someone who plays a visual novel skips all the dialogue then complains that the story was garbage
you've gotta admit, bro cooked the best rage bait seen so far, i refuse to believe any of the things they said in that video are their actual opinions cause never before in my life ive heard a wrong opinion before.
zoomer halo fans would like to have a word with you (Act Man and LateNightGamings minions) one time the halo CE multiplayer lead dev said on social media "i wanted halo to be like a party game" and said dev doesnt understand what 'party game' means when speaking in terms of game genre (a party game is a series of minigames each with completely fundamentally different rules, such as mario party) so Halotubers took his words out of context and claim "halo isnt an arena shooter, its a party game! because it's fun to play with friends and there are explosions and things flying around!" and now the entire new generation of halo fans have a fundamental misunderstanding of why the games are good they also paint this picture that the old halos were fun and casual when halo 2 devs literally invented ranked online matchmaking. halo CE literally was the reason professional gaming became popular. they paint this picture that people who play the game to win and not drive into walls with warthogs and pick daisies are "sweaty tryhards"
1:20 "what more is there to L4D2 besides walking forward with the occasional shooting straight ahead", I'm sorry, what ? "occasional shooting" ? did he seriously just say "occasional" shooting ? OCCASIONAL ? I literally almost closed the video right here and there. He made me legit cringe especially when he talked about the Game Director, and mentioned how it basically makes choosing the difficulty useless, since it can go from hard to easy anyway depending on how we play... This argument can only be made by someone who literally hasn't played the game, plain and simple. He made me laugh so much when he mentioned that while B4B's shop had problems, L4D's response to it was to not include a shop at all. Does he realize that L4D came out over a decade before B4B ? It's literally like saying that cars are great for transport but cause a lot of pollution, but scientists from ancient Egypt some 5000 thousand years ago found the laziest solution ever : to not use cars at all. Overall, every single thing and sentence he said was biased, nonsense, and/or downright wrong. I just pointed out the stupidest and cringest ones in my opinion
The video is now privated too. Either they're ashamed and want to hide it or they're going to make a new video discussing critcisms of his take horribly and doubling down.
The more I hear the guy talk, the more I'm convinced he's one of those snob teenagers whose entire identity is dictated by liking a game: he makes arguments around that liking, grasping at straws for everything and turning a lot of subjective stuff into "the other game is bad for not having this", like... yeah, I enjoy Killing Floor 1 and 2 having a shop between waves, but it doesn't mean if it didn't have a shop and used a weapon scavenging system it'd suddenly suck because "Killing Floor is perfect and not doing something it does is not being perfect, so it's bad". It's the kind of person whose response to you not liking their favorite music band is to make a revenge speech trying to demonize your favorite one and highlight every minor thing of his as the next step of evolution in music, instead of just accepting that he likes a different game, and that even if it's not as well-received, what matters in the end is that he likes it. Hell, even if he thinks it's unfair that the game is being so criticized (which is a thing and I personally defend Mass Effect Andromeda and the Saints Row reboot), he can at least *try* to accept the good in both games because his grievance is with the L4D *community* clowning on his beloved game, not with L4D itself. He sounds like a person who thinks if every game was exactly like B4B, the industry would be thriving with a myriad of good games, but I guess he never got to the point of his life where he ate his favorite food too many days in a row and got fucking sick of the taste.
As someone who thinks B4B isn't really a bad game, just very underwhelming, I think the "unique character" argument is always my favorite. Yea, B4B has more characters, but those characters having perks built into them or weapon specializations means that if I want to build a character around using shotguns, I'd be severely handicapping myself by playing a character other than "the one who uses shotguns". I might not even like that character, maybe I wanna play as someone else instead. With L4D2, if I wanna use shotguns and play Coach, I can use shotguns and play Coach. Simplicity is often best with games like this.
I saw that video in my recommended and without even watching the video I just said "No... it just isn't". Very nice debunk, enjoyed watching it all the way through!
If your gonna be a contrarian, at least be a well researched one that has at least some semblance of having done some. My god was that video just outright silly. It really sounds like the dude can't let go of the fact that Back 4 Blood just wasn't a good video game and got shut down as a result.
Come to my attention Smoovers removed his initial video on Left 4 Dead 2, I gave my opinions and had my disagreements with the video in question however that isn't an open invitation to harass him and his other partners on videos that don't pertain to Left 4 Dead or Back 4 Blood
Please have some civility and don't go out of way to give Smoovers grief, take my response for what it is and just leave it alone.
I agree though on his video i never saw people harassing him just disagreeing
i wouldve done the same if i were him tbh
Nah fuck it, cyber bully that nerd.
Did he even think not once but Twice whenever he decided to make that video?
and he shall never cook again, after roasting himself with his bad takes
"B4B is better because it has more infected."
"B4B is better because it has more guns."
"B4B is better because it has more characters."
"L4D has too many maps."
How can someone make an argument like that and not realize the absurdity?
hypocrisy
Too much copium
Loves the meaningless bloat of B4B but hates the actual content of L4D because L4D doesn't have a shop or some shit idk
Don't get why you got to shit on B4B's weapons and attachments when they were literally the only good thing that was fun besides the card mechanic (even if variety was meh)
@@Nepgearaf the attachments, not really. Neither were the gun rarities, it's as artificial as the difficulty of the game. And a lot of the guns simply didn't have their own identity, more doesn't mean better and B4B exemplified this perfectly.
The gunplay was good. Actually a lot of the gameplay was good. It's the actual game, concept and execution that were sub-par.
Also the card mechanic was, yet again, forced and artificially changed the outcomes of a round. Trying to blend together the arcadey formula with RPG elements probably wasn't a good idea, it's like trying to blend an RPG and a roguelike. They're contradictory.
saying left 4 dead 2 is a walking simulator is like saying counter strike is a dying simulator
used to be tbh
Counter strike is my favorite multiplayer choose your own adventure rpg
Movement shooters and it's consequences have been a disaster for slow-paced FPS games
it wold be a better example if you said movement shooter with extreme acurate precision while moving
Fortnite is a building simulator
Portal is a racing game
whats even funnier is that you can spawn in the airboat from Half Life 2 so you could theoretically race if you want to
Postal 2 is a puzzle game
Technically any game is a racing game if you speed run it
Isn't that his next video?
@@a_man_of_many_screams I mean that at least makes a slight modicum of sense.
>checks Smoovers channel
>its all back 4 blood content
:/
Ah, it makes sense now! His a B4B content creato- oh wait, I mean the ONLY B4B content creator
*L.O.L. ExDee.*
- 😐😐😐😐😐
Anyone who thought B4B was going to be something was mindless. The fact that he’s still making content for it is just downright pathetic at this point. It was a blatant cash grab from the start.
and thats all i need to know
That explains so much......
The part where Smoovers claims that L4D2 not having a shop is a supposed "solution to an unbalanced mechanic by not having it at all" is baffling to me.
He said that shit like people were clamoring for some kind of Killing Floor esque shop system in L4D1 and then L4D2 gave those people a middle finger - when in reality this was not a "problem" to begin with.
It'd be like going to a liquor store, and then asking where the tire department is.
"Sir..this is a liquor store. We specialize in beer, wine, and spirits..."
"GAH! Typical...you guys thought the solution to having to manage a tire department was just to not have one at all!"
No? They just...don't have tires because it doesn't fit their business, and none of their customers are in the market for tires with their case of beer? Much in the same way L4D2 doesn't have a shop not because they didn't want to balance it...because a shop doesn't fit a zombie survival co-op shooter where you're always on the move? Both gameplay-wise and thematically it makes no sense.
Putting a shop on l4d2 will just kill the experience. Imagine waiting 10 minutes for your team to buy shit. I'll just leave then.
@@czaczaczar People don't even wait that long in freaking lobbies.
The real kicker is how he literally proves himself wrong with his own point and instead of acknowledging that fact he ignores it entirely
@@bigdapramirez6157 A delusional persons mind prefers to ignore it's own irrationality rather than adress it
Ah yes, nick, who clearly despises Savannah, quite literally insults ellis by saying "Jesus are you FROM here?" clearly lived right next to eachother
Shit like this makes me wonder if he ever played the game, because this dialog triggers everytime or at least very very often.
@@sooz6092 Doesn't that line get used mostly when ellis mentions the Midnight Riders
and dont forget, Rochelle is literally stated to be a news reporter from another state.
the ones who actually live here are Ellis and Coach
@snakewithacomputer849 nah if I recall it's usually only in the first 2 levels of dead center
@@sooz6092 According to this very video (and what keyframes I could see on Smooverz video without playing it), the only cover footage from Smooverz has is from half of Dead Centre and a bit of Left 4 Dead 1.
That's an exceptionally short amount of time for a game. Even less so if he's an avid B4B player since he's gotten over B4B's learning curve without even getting half-way through L4D2s. e.g. the choice between pistols/Magnum and melee weapons.
There is a reason someone like Josh Strife Hayes gives every MMO 6 hours of playtime total to sell themselves to him. Not the same kind of game, I admit but there is no playing favourites. The rules are applied to all.
"you have no reason to choose a character because they're all the same"
mfw expressing yourself through choosing a character that you feel best represents you, your personality or just your likings doesn't exist
it's like saying you have no reason to buy skins in any modern game nowadays, like yeah, doesn't affect gameplay, but if you want to express yourself with it then go ahead
@@apricity_avi the fact that he says this when coach exists is criminal. He can go have fun with his half baked low quality imitation, You and I will have fun with our cheeseburger apocalypse and hot apple pie.
@@collinsmith7143 "I ever tell you about the time my buddy Keith fell down an open
manhole? He was unconscious down there for like a week. Durin' that
time, unbeknowst to Keith, they paved over him."
it doesn't make sense because they all have diff personalities which means they aren't the same
that's like saying john marston and arthur morgan are the same, it doesn't make sense
Funny thing is that the statement is still wrong if you account for the AI Survivor’s assigned weapon preferences.
Zoey/Ellis for their respective casts will default to marksmen weapons like the Hunting Rifle once present and with how the AI for survivors draws its roots from Counter Strike, the two when not played by humans are prone to getting swarmed by commons, not making the best use of their preferred primaries as they keep switching back to their dual pistols for everything that gets close. Also they’ll gladly grab those godawful CS:S ported snipers.
Tetris is a shoot-em-up RPG open world survival horror.
It's actually a pretty apt description lmao
Shoot em up - Technically, you shoot blocks down. But you are still shooting something.
RPG - The game has a levelling system and even an inventory where you hold a block temporarily.
Open world - Tetris stacks are pretty open ended for the most part.
Survival horror - The horror of not playing like an idiot
Puyo Puyo is a roguelike stealth tycoon boomer shooter.
Dr Fetus Mean Meat Machine is a hyper paced movement puzzle hack n' slash thrilling indie game
Tetris is survival horror tho.
Mario bros is a FMV point and click adventure.
“Left 4 Dead 2 is just a cinematic walking simulator” is such a bad take I feel like I need to watch this wearing a HAZMAT suit so I don’t get radiation poisoning
“That zombie is fire proof.”
The suit wont protect you
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that guy was full of shit.
Talks about how good the shadows from the flashlights are in B4B, footage of L4D CLEARLY demonstrates that it's shadows are better. Especially that closeup of Luis' face getting lit up by muzzle flashes and him squinting as a result.
@carljohan9265 I didn't mention it in the video but when I actually was getting the footage for both games I realized one clearly has better lighting and shadows than the other
The funniest part is when he talks about l4d having no shop system he literally proves himself wrong and instead of acknowledging it he ignores it
I can’t believe we’ve found the only back 4 blood fan in existence
They're still keeping the servers up just for him ❤
"black 4 blood"💀
@@denekhesab.2527 Tbf wasnt there a dumb controversy where people thought the b4b zombies were saying the n word lmao.
@@superbrainz2357 "What did that zombie say?!" lmfao
friend of mine, but he just likes it as just a zombie shooter more than anything. He doesn't play video games much anyways, he has two kids and he spends his time goofing off with them when he's off of work
bro could've just said "I prefer Back 4 Blood", and everyone would be fine with that
actually i think people would tear you to pieces if you said that
@@loonyjaisen of course, there will always be people who will get mad at you for liking things they don't like
but there's a big difference between saying you prefer something, which in itself is harmless, and saying said thing is better than others cuz [insert rant here]
@@elsadmafioso And it doesn't help that all their video did was likely just bring more negativity towards Back 4 Blood, the game's literally dead in terms of development and has nothing to show for it whatsoever when it comes to community supported content, whereas Left 4 Dead 2 in complete contrast has the Steam Workshop which allows you to download community made content whenever you want "tired of the official campaigns?" download some custom campaigns like Bloody Moors, Dead Before Dawn, I Hate Mountains, etc. The chap literally acted like L4D2 has zero going for it in all categories when in reality it's Back 4 Blood that has nothing going for it in all categories.
@@cursedhawkins1305 agreed. it shows that it's the community, not the developers, who carry the game forward
also, I've played Bloody Moors, but not the other two caompaigns you mentioned. they any good? 🤔
@@elsadmafioso Dead Before Dawn? Yeah, it's good because it's pretty much based on the movie Mall of the Dead, I think that's the name and it did come with custom music to match the campaign, but I don't know if it was ever fixed because last time, I played it the music was straight up broken and didn't work at all.
I Hate Mountains is also good because it's the only custom campaign that I know of that has different paths exist on the same map without the director needing to influence which is generated first and it's also the only campaign or at least was the first to do this that featured a seaplane (you know those ones with the floating things (I forget what they're called) on the bottom) as the rescue vehicle instead of the traditional boat, helicopter, plane, etc and I believe was the first to do double tanks for the finale. Both were even made back in Left 4 Dead 1 and were more or less ported to Left 4 Dead 2 and in my opinion, they still hold up even with the different mechanics that Left 4 Dead 2 brought to the table.
honestly i think the best way u can summarize that dude's video is either
he's trolling really really hard
or he's coping hard af about the failure of B4B
Nah I've seen the discussions he's had about this game it's a real vid
@@tj9944 yikes
@@tj9944 This is just sad. Dude is clearly not all the way there.
@@tj9944 oh man oh god
Back 4 Blood failed?
Bro played the game on easiest difficulty and cried about it being too easy
And about the more = better philosophy of his. There is a saying in my language that nearly translates into" Where is abundance,there is shit." How should a player react efficiently to 23 unique monsters .The thing I love about valve games is their use of silhouettes when making their characters. Every single one is clearly visible in any kind of situation.
yeah but imagine his review if he did solo expert or with bots shi damn near impossible without sacrificing them
Dude, valve is like famous for only putting out high-quality productions. I don’t even need to talk about the fact that there’s no half-life three or lfd three because they themselves said there’s nothing else to add 💚
@@GreenEyedDazzlerTake the special Infected for an example.
In l4d they punished stragglers but in 2 they also punish the overilance of bunching together in one area. Forcing survivors to spread out somewhat.
The main question with a l4d3 is how do you really add to the infected roster in a way that isnt already a role covered by one that already exists? It's near impossible with how well l4d2 is designed.
@@superbrainz2357 kinda reminds me of Axl from the Mega Man X series, specifically X8, where there's no good reason to pick Axl over X because they both have the same gameplay (avoiding direct combat and shooting energy weapons) and the only difference is Axl has no armor upgrade until the post game and his boss weapons are terrible.
"You have no reason to choose a character because they're all the same."
I bet in Back 4 Blood, you have no reason to choose a character beyond the Meta Characters because the rest suck to play as.
Cool pfp looser
In Back 4 Blood you have no reason to pick a character because the game is dead lol
@@CrusadiaIX only it isn't
3k playerbase is a decent number, unfortunately, it's caused by the steam sales
@@jorgehenriq
cope
Back 4 Blood’s biggest sin is that it tried so hard to be the modern Left 4 Dead that it forgot to have a personality.
Trailer: "fROm ThE crEAtoRs of L4D!"
Game: "Why are you comparing us to L4D?"
@@lm9029 Remember, Counter Strike wasn't originally made by Valve.
And your point is?
Turtle Rock didnt make CS either.
How is that even relevant?
Valve bought and refined the CS mod and turtle rock made a coop vs horde mod of their property.
Instead of suing them into the ground like Nintendo would valve saw the potential in their basic pve mode and helped them improve it.
Valve is the only reason L4D grew into something bigger. Not only were the majority of the team from valve but it was they who wrote the characters to be likeable, balanced the game and it was they who allowed and endorsed players to mod their game for even more replay value (something TRS didnt even consider for B4B!)
TRS only "created" L4D in the way in that they had a simple framework and valve was the only one that would listen to them and give them a chance to make their idea...good.
TRS claiming all the credit as "the creators of L4D" (yet doing no effort to live up to its standards) is like me drawing a stick figure of Mona Lisa on Leonardo's canvas just for him to appear & think its a "interesting concept" and then draw a proper version of it himself but with actual skill and passion put into it.
Then when nobody wants to buy my next generic stick figure i claim the honor of "being the creator of Mona Lisa" just to boost my sales and give buyers false expectations.
Yes, in this made up scenario I (TRS) technically came up with the idea but it was Leonardo (valve) who made it something people actually enjoyed enough to return to.
(Speaking of which, Kojima technically didnt originally create Metal Gear, he was "only" the reason it went down in history as something more than just the Contra clone it was originally supposed to be)
If i were TRS i would never dream of leaving valve. I would be gratefull if i could continue to ride and depend on their talent and well deserved fame.
From a buissness perspective thats just a free ride to success when you are associated with almost universally respected developers, and from a artistic perspective it would be the biggest honour in the world for me to have a place among such talented people to either help or take inspiration from.
Thats not to say that L4D is perfect or that you're wrong for liking B4B.
If you enjoy it im happy for you.
But nothing pisses me off more than deceptive reviews with double standards or when developers dont show any signs of grattitude for the oppurtunity and position they've been given. It just feels so disrespectful.
@@lm9029 zherean would know about this information, if he watched Crowbcat Video
Also they tried(?) killing the Speedrun Community
Modern gaming and its consequences have been a disaster for the brains of young gamers
these zoomers are cooked, their brains are hooked to that battle pass and DLCs
Disagree, at least not in anyway relevant to the video.
@@_cfmca Most of his complaints are based around his thoughts that many of the horrible practices of the current gaming industry's bad practices
@@johnsupergeil7098 Can’t think of more than one or two that’s rooted in the fault of modern games, besides sometimes those types of games are just a persons taste. Problem with video guy is that he’s an asshole.
@@johnsupergeil7098Yeah, "LFD needs a shop" this is legitamitely consumerism brain rot and we should've rallied with pitch forks over the horse armor.
the dudes argument is just like "b4b is good, therefore anything l4d does different is automatically bad."
That's crazy, b4b is ass compared
basically "left 4 dead is a walking simulator if you ignore all the good things in it"
@@arsontrent8164The amount of shit we gotta ignore would be like 99% of the game 😂
bro was grasping at straws trying to make those points too. complaining that L4D put too much efforts into zombie animations is wild
@@prozoac9454 Yeah the blatant disregard of a lot of crowbcats points in that video was just disingenuous.
The videos whole point was to show that turtle rock while having a base idea mainly had l4d be a success by valve aiding them and putting so much effort and detail into the game that it's still talked about nearly 20 years later that several games have tried following its footsteps for success.
The fact that he barely even used l4d2 in that video and only 1 which turtle rock was more involved in makes it even more damaging for the supposed "creators of l4d" which were only like 5 people.
ah yes because shops are a thing DURING A ZOMBIE FUCKING APOCALYPSE
Well duh, never heard of Crazy Dave's twiddlydinkies?
@@superbrainz2357 my bad, crazy dave is pretty cool tbh 😔
@@eriv0idToo bad we could never meet him to get that m60 he was packing in the passing.
Oh well I guess he was too busy dealing with zombies pouring out of the space time contiuum on his lawn.
@@superbrainz2357 yeah but he doesn't really have a permanent location... he's just got a car.
@@superbrainz2357 only because he's CRAAAZY!!!
When you ignore every other part of a game they all become walking simulators.
Except for like, Five nights at Freddy's. The first one, that is
@@MyUsersDark sitting simulator
@@NeverBeGameOver haha, true
fast travel sims*
Imagine thinking you can compare the most forgettable and generic characters ever to 8 of the most iconic characters in gaming history
Yeah the b4b characters are all forgettable while the l4d ones are so iconic they've been in other games like dead by daylight with bill and as skins in the zombie army games.
B4b isnt even close in the l4d styled game genre as ones like the vermintide cast (imo the best of the bunch. An amazing blend of comedic banter and genuine emotions from their flaws coming out) bury them alive in terms of characters.
Coach alone solos 90% of the current era main characters
@@obamahostile4073 They all play off of each other really well, that's what makes the L4D2 Cast work.
Rochelle is usually trying to be the straight man, keeping the team together. (Or woman in this case)
Nick is the snarky one of the group, usually butting heads with either Rochelle or Ellis a lot of the time, resulting in pretty amusing dialogue between the two as they banter.
Ellis is just all around goofy with a soft side.
And then there's Coach. Coach is Coach. Nothing else needs to be said about him. Mr. One Man Cheeseburger Apocalypse.
@@obamahostile4073Feuled with a bbq bacon burger and a large soda? Might just solo all of Valve’s universes.
@ryatt9365 the combine watching a fat black man inhale an entire burger as he slowly walks towards them:
What he thought was positive for back 4 blood made me dislike the game more.
The game feels bloated with unnecessary and confusing mechanics.
Sometimes less is more.
They added all that crap and forgot to give it variety or personality, I’m genuinely suprised they didn’t add a battle pass
When I look at the pictures he shows of the enemies in B4B, I am sure most of them I would not recognize as being special infected but just a different skin for regular infected, until they suddenly start using special attacks or something like that
@@RUSTYCHEVYTRUCKif they ever decide to update the dead game they probably will
@@marcotruschel9427 I mean for some of them it's hard to tell, but there's pretty obvious visual ques (ones in which you can even change the colour of) for most of them, certainly not as distinctive as L4Ds however
He is right about one thing; l4d is a bad walking simulator. The reason being that it isn't a walking simulator
The ONLY thing smoover was right about
Haha that’s pretty funny
I’d rather have 4 good characters with actual dialogue between them than have 20 bland af character with no synergy
with extrra 4 amazing characters
smoover belongs to a generation of cooked gamers. I bet he wouldnt say the l4d is a walking simulator if there was a battlepass or ranking system
It's not his fault. He's just been conditioned with crap instead of art.
@@dogwoodhillbilly he should be exposed with gameboy and psp games
@@ToastySNXZ i doubt exposing him to a gameboy would just end up saying that it has shitty graphics
TBF, I'm probably about the same age as him and thought his video was weird and malinformed and I got very stinky pseudo-intellectual vibes when I watched it. Games don't need to be more complicated to be more fun. Just look at Minecraft; it's a big game, sure, and it's complicated as a whole, but the core idea of re-arranging blocks, crafting them into other blocks and tools, and the player using these blocks and tools for self-preservation and expression in a big world is very simple to engage with. Minecraft became successful even when it was early in development and had only a fraction of the content that it did today because the simple ideas of exploring, building, and fighting were so good that they didn't need more content to shine. Then, the game improved further as some more content was added over time. Yet, while many enjoy the latest version of minecraft, some would argue that it's not the greatest due to all the "bloat" that has entered over the years; useless copper ore veins displacing iron ore veins, a plethora of randomly generated structures and challenges making the game feel too "lived in" and less like an abandoned wilderness simulator, the new music crowding out the old music and sounding good but different enough that the game can feel like it's living a double life, etc. More just isn't always better, and while I've never played B4B, I wouldn't criticize an older game for having less features.
@@ToastySNXZ That would help. Although if he is used to modern games, he'll probably use modern excuses to not play them. Things along the lines of "it's old, the graphics are bad, and it doesn't have *these* (insert bloated game design choice here)." Kind of like how he said in the video that Unreal Engine was *so* good and obviously better compared to the "grunge of Source."
At first when watching his video I was like "this is bait". Then he started saying stuff about l4d2 that is blatantly untrue and talking about how good b4b is in a serious tone, and I was like "this kid is for real".
I was so upset obviously that I left comment about how he totally has no idea what the AI Director does and didn't even bother watching my video despite putting it in his video.
he closed his eyes while playing l4d
Please don't be upset by people's opinions about videogames on the internet haha
And I liked your video! I thought the system was very cool and well-designed to enhance the interest curve of L4D2. But, I do still feel it makes the game more movie-like.
@@smoovershey. Shut up. Permanently.
@smoovers It's genuinely a miracle that you have the ability to run a CZcams channel while having takes like those
@@smoovers I'm upset about your opinion because it's wrong and b4b sucks
saying l4d2 is a walking simulator is like saying tf2 is a open world fps
is like saying postal is a 2d arcade platformer
is like saying the stanley parable is like a isometric arcade shooter
is like saying back4blood is actually a good game
It's like saying Project Zomboid is a looter shooter
@@daz211 i mean, in a sense, yeah, you loot buildings and rarely shoot zombies (seriously it's the us why are guns so rare)
its like saying super mario bros. didn't do anything to the gaming industry
By far the worst take I've ever heard. How can the game be a walking sim if the whole premise of the game is working as a team to overcome a hoard to get to an exit. If simply walking from point A to point B is what makes a game a walking sim, then majority of games are walking sims. Hell, Doom would be a walking sim by his standards.
By his definition B4B would be a walking sim too lol
yeah, if it was a walking sim then you wouldn't have to shoot at the zombies right? just walk past them and you would be safe?
honestly, i think the description "walking sim" is to broad that it doesn't really work when categorizing games because too many fall into that category in a technical sense
@@channel45853 a walking sim is a game where you walk with no other objectives and the main entertainment comes from the storytelling, so The Stanley Parable, Firewatch, etc.
basically, a walking sim is just an audiobook in the same way a visual novel is a choose your own adventure book
Bro, fucking ULTRAKILL would count as a "walking sim" by that definition.
Left 4 Dead is genuinely one of the most fun multiplayer game I’ve ever played
I feel like he's trying to cope with the fact none of his friends want to play b4b, the game is a failure in almost every way, and that everyone wants to play L4d. He probably went into this game expecting to hate it and hated it. If his video is bait, it's terrible because all of the 'problems' he's pointing out are non-existent, or just don't matter.
what you feel like doesn't matter since you have no proof
stop speculating about real people
@@channel45853 Yeah why you think I said 'I feel'. Besides, you're acting as If I said he was a nazi, all I said was he got his feelings hurt because no one likes b4b.
'What you feel like doesn't matter since you have no proof'🤓Like shut the fuck up bro, who do you think you are. This a CZcams comment section about L4d, not a scientific journal talking about dark matter. Proof is irrelevant here. Beside it doesn't even matter, cause you're the one who is making this a problem, you're acting as if I am speculating that he murdered someone. 'I feel' means I think, which also means I hypothesized. I'm not asserting for a fact, that he got his feelings hurt, I basically said I think he got his feelings hurt. Even then, I acknowledge that the video might be bait, which also points towards what I said not being absolutely 100% fact.
@@channel45853 Founds Smoover's alt.
@@channel45853 you're feelings dont matter, so i guess not yours either
he probably bought the ultimate edition for 100 Euro, played more than 2 hours, none of his friends wanted to play it because they know it sucks, and then saw that the game is on sale for 90% off until the 24th
"Left 4 Dead 2 is a walking simulator"
Survival Mode: 👀
Which is wild, because that's b4b versus mode.
survival mode is more of a "survive enough minutes to get pummeled by 5 tanks" simulator
Him saying that the characters in L4D2 have little character has got to be the one of the stupidest points ever.
Did you watch the opening cutscene? Did you have your audio turned on? Did you actually play the phyucking game?
Both sets of survivors have so much personality baked into them and I've only played maybe an hour total of l4d2 and just listening to the banter and the opening shows me that much. Normal also isn't a walking simulator. Commons are weak as dirt but special infected are quite dangerous when they seem to preferably target the human player. If you are good with your shooter mechanics though hard or expert are probably better places to start just because l4d2 isn't a particularly difficult game overall.
This is quite literally like skipping every cutscene in a game, rushing through the story as fast as you humanly can and ignoring every dialogue and plot elements. Then saying "man the story is shit".
That's one quick and easy way to be factually wrong.
@@mwperk02 there is literally so much banter you might not even hear e verything even after numerous hours, it took me tons of tries during a L4D1 Map to here Francis make a joke about a gas station name and Zoey going 'Ha, farting'.
@@gibleymanits like skipping every dialogue in a..... visual novel game...
How does somebody even miss out on THAT MUCH dialogue for blud to come to that conclusion?! Even their gameplay audio cues tend to have their personalities baked into their callouts.
the dude clearly hasn't just enjoyed a proper game before , you could tell just from him talking about l4d2 needing a weapons shop and that you needed to get an external chart to understand a weapon that he has never sat down and enjoyed a real game
It reeks of somebody who only played modern games, and thinks older games are somehow "inferior" because they aren't flashy or mashed full of generic mechanics slapped into every game nowadays without care for balance or whatnot, like sprint and aim-down-sights.
We always joked about the next generation growing up thinking $20 cosmetics and lootboxes and a battle-pass and junk in a $70 game is just normal, and now I think we're starting to see the first real case of that happening, to a lesser extent.
He sounds like some 11 year old Fortnite/COD kid in a grown man’s body
@@EZ-Flix Aaaaannnd because I GUARANTEE you he's going to delete his video due to sheer humiliation, I just took the liberty of downloading it. Sucks to be him! ;)
@@damonullerick6572 Dang lol
@@EZ-Flix If ya wanna do it yourself, I sadly can't mention the name of the program directly (comment would be deleted instantly) but if you search the capitalized letters in the following random sentence in one sequence, you'll find it. :)
'mY Tears are DeaLt with Pigs'.
*a game with other mecanics but if you want to finish, you have to move*
Smoovers: Walking Simulator
saying l4d2 is a walking simulator is like saying half life is a souls born
L4D2 is the "Dark Souls" of Zombie games
@@Mystic-Misfit media critic god
Nah its resident evil 1 remake @@Mystic-Misfit
@@Silentguy_78 yeah that tracks. having to read item descriptions and being confused 80% of the time.
I would play half souls
Bro's argument is literally "More is more. Look we have more guns/zombies/whatever. Our game good, your game bad, right?"
And I'm not even sure the point 'b4b has more variety' would hold up if really put to scrutiny
Starfield is the shining star example (pun intended) that more is almost never objectively better. "This game has 1000 planets, it's gotta be a better RPG than New Vegas which had like...only a small square area of a single planet, right?"
@@fearlesswee5036 I can't get over how they pulled the player character being the "starborn" and getting powers.
I will never get tired of people thrashing starfield.
Later on he mentioned that L4D2 has more maps than B4B and now suddenly, having more is bad because L4D2 is worse than B4B.
@@fearlesswee5036 I find that funny, because Daggerfall manages to be a great game while offering a lot of emptiness and scale. Starfield doesn't really have any of what made Daggerfall work.
He gives that vibe of that one dude that gets homework working on an essay about two opposing parties and uses ChatGPT because he doesn't even care to research about the other party.
Bro has so many contradictions he would make Phoenix Wright a millionaire
bro has so many contradictions you’d need 2 whole games to show them all
playing the first part of dead center gives you more info about the characters than what the b4b character trailer did
Heck when people say l4d2 has no story there just flat out ignoring the dialouge and environmental storytelling.
The survivors got together at the hotel after the helicopter leaves and while getting to know each other they discover on a ceda map that New Orleans is the last possible option they have, hence why the whole game is them traveling through the south to reach it. The other levels show the mishaps along the way and why they arent sage after immediate evac with stuff like the dialouge about Nick shooting the zombie pilot.
Granted that's a basic summary and it's simple but IT IS THERE for the people who simply pay attention.
@@superbrainz2357 I still wish left 4 dead had cutscenes tho mainly at the beginning and end of the each campaign
the environmental storytelling and dialogue proves L4D does have more of an elaborate story than people give it credit for, but still I feel like not having actual cutscenes made us miss out on some good dialogue
(the unused no mercy cutscene for example)
@@superbrainz2357 the game literally has developing character arcs too.
Rochelle starts loving to use a gun, Coach holds his team more dear to him, Ellis has some smart ideas and Nick starts to tolerate and even respect everyone more and more. Hell in the later campaigns if him and Ellis are left alive he'll say "Hey, Ellis? Don't let me down."
if Ellis dies he can say "Hey Ellis y'know that shit I was sayin'? I was just joking, right?", AND if Ellis dies when it's just him and himself, he'll say ""Hey Ellis, you know all those things I said? I was kidding."
@@woobgamer5210Yeah and in the earlier levels you can tell Nick definetly rubs Coach the wrong way with snide remarks and attitude but later on how much they banter jokingly with eachother.
The l4d2 cast is really so well done it's no wonder l4d inspired games like vermintide put so much time into the characters and their lines to make it stand out and make the characters actually feel like people.
Then later in the elevator, the characters introduce themselves and everything. After finishing that first level, they call each other by name, while the first level, they refer to each other with nicknames like, "Suit", "Young'un", "Sweetie", etc.
Honestly, this is great.
saying that Left 4 Dead 2 is a walking simulator is like saying that TF2 is a roleplaying game (you have 9 unique classes, so it's just like Space Station 13) and that CS2 is a David Cage game (it barely has any story and if you don't complete a quick time event fast enough, your character dies)
Haha, true
SPACE STATION 13 MENTIONED!!!!
@@saturniidspectre Spooky's Jumpscare Mansion?
the counter strike stuff you said is true though, i suck
lmaoo good one with the CS2 comparison
I have to start with "what is this dude smoking?"
A walking simulator is generally defined as a game where you do *nothing* but walk, and explore/discover/experience a linear narrative, maybe solving the odd puzzle along the way. They are designed to be very laid-back, relaxing, and simple experiences aimed more about showing you a detailed/interesting world to view, with a focus more on narrative over gameplay.
This is like, the opposite of what L4D2 is; a high-octane, fast-paced zombie co-op FPS where you can live or die based on every decision you make each moment, devoid of puzzles and without a real focus on narrative (there is a story and complex well-written characters, but not a real scripted or linear narrative front-and-center as with a walking simulator.)
Yes, L4D2 is a bad walking simulator, in the way Fallout: New Vegas is a terrible RTS. Because it's not an RTS, and isn't trying to be...it's trying to be a well-written and detailed open world RPG...which it succeeds spectacularly at. That guy is just a B4B fanboy coping with B4B being universally panned and failing, or a really bad troll.
Also, this clown really brought up "bigger number = better, I win." as if it were a valid argument? "Your one fresh-baked apple pie may be delicious, but I have ONE HUNDRED feces pies! Clearly, I win." This has to be satire, this is so perfectly stupid and inaccurate it feels calculated.
I guess Turtle Rock really needed their number 1 fan to speak up for their mistake of a game. I know that they fixed some of the issues of the early days, but the game is still largely inferior to L4D just because L4D did so many more things better.
From what I understand, he tries to play L4D like he plays Back 4 Blood, and thinks the game is shallow because of that, and then tries to dunk of features he doesn't even understand the inner workings of. Like the guns having stats in back 4 blood... That's cool and all, but most players who enjoy L4D don't want to spend hours comparing guns. Plus, the only stat you usually care about in L4D is "Does the gun kill zombies, and does it feel good to use". I don't use the scar because I don't like the burst in L4D, but that doesn't make the scar bad per say.
I love the scar but hate the recoil of the AK even tho the AK is most people’s fav
@@GreenEyedDazzler Personally, I prefere the M16. It is precise, and shoots as much as required. I don't mind the AK, but yeah, it's still not a huge change, it's just slight stat changes.
The SCAR is more of a long-range pick with the least accuracy drop on movement vs the M16 & AK. Its damage isn't good, its burst can be a problem, but it has large magazines.
I like L4D because the weapons and maps compliment each other enough to make particular guns really effective in specific circumstances. Back4Blood however sounds really boring, what's so fun about customising a gun to handle any situation? The CZcamsr says it best, spending minutes min-maxing your gear after a supply dump is not fun.
i genuinely got pissed when he started saying b4b's bloat features make it better than l4d2
Quality over quantity is a lost concept on a lot of people, but usually you can explain it easily with simple terms.
"Would you rather have 10 pies made of feces? Or one apple pie?"
"What? Ew! I'll take the one apple pie!"
"So you agree that having a smaller number of quality items is better than a great number of inferior quality items?"
@@fearlesswee5036 definition of 'putting words into peoples mouths' a.k.a twitter
only for them to go on and say that L4D2 has too many maps too
how do you even mess that up?
There's only a few reasons he could have completely missed the mark this hard.
1. He was paid to advertise B4B
2. You paid him to do it so that you can make a perfect counter argument for content.
bro is onto something
It feels like 1/4 of the video he just abandoned his argument of L4D being a walking simulator
Oh yeah, and TF2 is a phenomenal vr farming simulator.
It's a phenomenal Bot Training game right now
@@FreneticPotatoit's sad that it's true
and it gets alot of updates
@@thatguyfromA6915 Meaningful ones to! The farming simulator even fixed the bot problem as soon as it popped up.
@@Bone_Incidents i fogot about that i have not seen a bot in years good thing they took care of it really quickly
can guarantee this guy hasn't played Versus
Even I don't dip my toes into versus that much the playerbase can be pretty toxic there
thats why i play it splitscreen, so i have room to fuck up and make mistakes and LEARN without 3 teammates treating it like the end of the world @@tj9944
@@tj9944 also halfway into a round it is likely your entire team may leave out of nowhere one after another without any explanation beforehand if you are all losing
a lot of people are also very skilled and will make playing the game living hell especially if you are infected with their sniper rifles and bunnyhopping
@@tj9944 i mean Versus has a lot of teamwork and strategy you can't just "walk" forward and expect to win ,no you're gonna be left alone and easily killed, and kicked lol
if you think Left 4 Dead 2 is a walking simulator then all of the FPS games are walking sims too
I did in fact play Versus mode, and I enjoyed it relatively more than solo mode. And I admit in the original video that this is really the only point in the crowbcat video where I agree L4D2 is objectively better. I was talking about the campaign, though.
11:19 it's like saying that overwatch is so much better than TF2 cause it has more than 9 characters to pick from
imagine having to pay real money to play as Spy.
@@woobgamer5210He clearly needs that money to buy all those expensive suits.
@@woobgamer5210 what? TF2 is a free-to-play game
😊😊😊😊😊😊0😊😊😊
Lk
😊
9@@woobgamer5210
@@_zhn_that’s the joke
I love the bit of showing the difference between special infected in both games. B4B reminds me of that regular show clip of the same D&D-esque figurine with different skins.
That's a very accurate comment and quite funny since now am just picturing it inside my head
the fortnite generation trying to comment on the golden age
no
@@ghstcffee7717 yes
his brain has been fried by the battle pass concept
It feels like Smoovers didn't even watch the video he was referencing. And I think the fact the Crowbcat uses the first game to make his points especially; is just to really drive home how big the differences are considering the time between the two and the lack of refinement a sequel brings to the table. Pitiful really.
B4b was killed the moment they said we couldn’t mod it
"no mod no glubtastic"
Did bro really just argue that the game director made the game too hard? What the FUCK 😭😂😂😂
my take on this is just that this guy hasnt touched higher difficulties
thats not me going "skill issue!!!!!!!"
but yes easy mode and normal mode on certain campaigns ARE walking simulators with the occasional straightforward shooting
but the moment you touch realism or advanced/expert, you often have to BACKTRACK (the inverse of "walking simulator" gameplay) in order to save a teammate, get to a safer point to fight a tank, etc
also the majority of his video is talking about crowbcats video, which is *about production quality, not gameplay design*
so he hasnt played l4d2 at the difficulty that allows for fun gameplay for experienced fps players, AND his only other reference is a video talking about the non-gameplay elements of the series
hes literally pointing to a video primarily about the games graphics and going "look!1!1!1!! the game is only graphics!!!!!"
Crowbcat's video is about some gameplay design though. The "Audio cues" section, for instance, was expressing that B4B's special infected only have muddled zombie noises as their audible "tell", which is hard to tell apart when there's multiple of them lurking around you, whereas L4D saw this problem coming and solved it with unique musical cues. Also, the flashlight section wasn't just about flashlight graphics, but the gameplay choice of it being attached to your weapon, which makes you a little more blind during reloads and incentivizes you to reload when you're team is watching you. There are some "fluff" elements that the folks at Valve put in, but there's also some elements with real gameplay ramifications, if a bit subtle sometimes.
People who say left 4 dead 2 is an unrealistic expectation of your survivability in the apocalypse have clearly never played expert realism where you tend to fear the commons more than the special infected.
you shouldn't have to play above the "normal" difficulty though, normal should be enough to make a judgement on the game, hard mode is for people who want a harder challenge whom already like the game
You're correct! I believe that the "Normal" difficulty should give me an accurate representation of the gameplay for a beginner coming into the game. And if it didn't, well, that's not really my fault, now.
Also, my video was a direct response to the crowbcat video, which is why I focused on weird things like the flashlights and audio cues. I wouldn't have harped on them if he hadn't.
@@smoovers You really need to listen to the developer commentary and play it on expert so that it would change your mind
Also another note. How is it a movie? Like yeah it has a zombie film theme and some cinematic choices for visuals but he says it like the game rips control out of your hands every 5 seconds to make you watch a lengthy dialog. It is non stop quick paced strategy risk and reward. One false move you can get pinned downed or worse an entire team downed.
Never taking control away from the player is literally Valve's entire philosophy. Looking at literally any of their games shows they've been following this pretty closely
@@MyUsersDark The scorch shot would like to have a word with you 😉
@@TheeDeathCaster Are you referring to taunt kills, or? Because the player can opt to not use those, and they're meant more as a joke anyway
If you're referring to the terrible balancing, well that's not what I meant. I meant as in, not being able to control your character akin to watching a cutscene.
Ironically L4D's movie aesthetic gives it more personality then B4D
He should change his name to either smoovebrain or strawman because jesus fucking christ, how does he not see these linear ass biased arguments he makes.
This is like taking someone who's only eaten McDonald's their entire life and givng them a proper steak dinner, confronted with the absolute slop they've been consuming, they have to grasp and cope and complain about why is it even good.
So let me get this straight. He complained about LFD being Cinematic but then later argues that the Director (the most randomized and varied entity in the game) is a bad thing?
I hate it when people try to act like a character is automatically good, just because their story has multiple layers and moving parts.
Yes, that’s definitely a positive when done right, but that doesn’t instantly make the character great.
A character with a simple and straight forward story isn’t a bad thing, and Left 4 Dead 2 is a great example of that, since it builds character through personality and wit via dialogue.
Even then I'd argue the L4D2 characters do have layers. Nick is a great example, he starts hating everyone and the south and whatnot, but over-time he shares in fun harmless banter with Ellis, and he even has lines of dialogue for when Ellis dies, admitting they didn't part on the best of terms and he actually misses him.
For those of you who somehow haven't played L4D2 yet, this isn't a spoiler. Any character can die at any time. There's only one "canon" character death and I won't spoil that.
@@fearlesswee5036 True
@@fearlesswee5036 Nick also has lines for when it's only him and one other survivor left.
He drops a lot of the smug attitude and genuinely wants them to survive.
Others have also pointed out that in the intro he's the one to immediatly help Ellis when a jockey gets him and his attitude towards Francis changes when he finds Bill's body.
I'd go so far as to argue that he is debately the best character in l4d because you can actively see his character develop over the levels
tbf I feel like a big part is how cheesy the characters are, as the game is supposed to feel like you're playing in a low to mid budget zombie movie
@@snakewithacomputer849It also helps that they react pretty appropriately depending on circumstances.
If the groups all alive they banter and you get some pretty funny bits when they survive events like the dark carnival crescendo events.
However if some are dead they become more serious and focused and you see who they really are.
It's the seemingly shallow but deeper when casually examined details that make the l4d or something like the vermintide cast so enjoyable while b4b just comes off as tryhardish.
Left 4 dead 2 arguably has a better story and more fleshed out characters with more voicelines. Also this guy needs to realize that less is more sometimes.
Arguably?
@@toxic_shr00m yah they clearly had more direction of what they wanted to do with l4d2's story and had more in depth voicelines that fleshed out the characters more so than l4d
@@distinguishableusername I know, that's why I said "Arguably?" since I don't really think it's something that can be argued against. It's just like, an objective fact.
@@toxic_shr00m my fault og
@@toxic_shr00m I suppose he said "arguably" because art is subjective, and one person might prefer one thing over another... that said, back 4 blood isn't art, so yeah it's not arguable.
Don't forget that changing difficulty also changes special AI to react faster to your existence. Like the smokers line of sight to actually attack is way shorter on expert almost instant but on normal or easy it could take 2 to 3 seconds for him to throw it out
“Left 4 Dead is a walking simulator”
Proceeds to rant about how B4B is somehow better, and not mention how L4D is a walking sim.
Honestly, despite Crowbat doing extensive research and show how much art, soul and dedication has been put into Left 4 Dead and still dont understand why devs added the little things like music to body animation of the infected. Really hurts to hear.
Cant hate someone for liking Back 4 Blood
But i can be sad about it because they dont get the point (Or maybe hes baiting who knows but if hes legit, im more worried with his other reviews)
I wouldnt trade my experience for the first time playing the game on Xbox
Chased by a tank, leaving your sister behind on No Mercy Hospital to escape, laughing to Ellis stories because the dev of L4D knows how to extract that emotion out of you.
Even the special infected noises are quite distinct from commons. There is no mistaking a common from a hunter when it starts making noise.
Back 4 Blood would have been a great advancement for the genre if it didn't take so many steps back in both gameplay, character design, and frankly the grind.
I had posted a comment on smoovers' video but there was no way to write as much text about how his take is just invalid (some of it I accept since it's subjective, but there's A LOT of objectively incorrect and invalid info in his video). Thanks for making this video!
Walking sim, a game genre well known for having fucking guns
15:35 It's amazing that guy forgot that he argued in L4D2 you can't expect the same thing every time because it can change the amount of enemies and in B4B you know what to expect, but then said "players get the same experience every time" in L4D2 because it's a movie
>literally mentions the Director who fluxuates difficulty and has randomization that makes every new runthrough unique
>says L4D2 has the same experiemce every time
Whatever Smoovers is on right now, i recommend that he lowers the dosage
This reminds me of a drama about some shmuck who called out a youtuber called Noclick for criticizing a half-life modpack
"Why is " Why is"why is realistic half life so bad?" so bad?" so bad?"
And thinking that Noclick did it on bad terms, yet the mod creator straight up CRINGED at the mod so badly after finding out all of it's problems he took it down
Smoovers is the example of the ideal customer. he has been trained to feel pleasure for each DLC and Battle pass bought, like a pavlovian dog. He will defend your ship, even while it sinks into bankruptcy.
"ermmm i must humbly disagree with your statement about the survivors not having a meta, Coach and Bill are the meta survivors, S tier badasses that are the best, everyone else is mid, I rest my case about the survivor meta"
There's also the small detail where coach takes like 0.1 more seconds for a charger to lift. He's clearly meta smh.
And Postal 1 is a fun kids educational game
ok that was pretty funny lol
The more I heard Smoover yap on and on about B4B, the more boring and generic it sounded. I like L4D becuase it's very pick up and play, and there is obviously nuance to the gameplay, but anyone playing a video game for the first time could pretty easily figure out L4D, while B4B sounds like you have to read a shit ton of stats and descriptions to even have an understanding of what is happening.
it's like the counter strike vs valorant thing, complexity is fine to have in a game but the entry skill level sucks for valorant because there's line-ups, so many stuff exploding, flying, covering the screen it's hard for a new player to even make sense like MOBAs
complexity only rewards those who put in the time, but how much time will any given player willing to give or have?
l4d main complexity is in teamwork, a proper team of survivors bulldozes everything in expert and bad team dies in easy but the game gives both a game to play and not a spreadsheet to review
12:23 L4D actually had a weapon upgrade system in beta but was scrapped in development. Some modded servers actually restored this functionality and it's documented on The Cutting Room Floor.
Also if you look at beta L4D a lot of the stuff from Back 4 Blood kinda makes sense. IIRC one of the special infected in B4D is like the Screamer in beta L4D, cut for being too confusing for the play-testers. Beta L4D's cast looks completely different than retail as well, with the beta version looking way more well-prepared for the apocalypse, like the cleaners in B4D.
On the topic of special infected L4D has it better since he left out the uncommon infected.
In L4D for those who Don't know there's commons, just the angry slappy zombies, special infected, the usual menaces with distinct abilities and purpose, but then there are the Uncommon infected, such as mud men, zombies that fling mud at the player obscuring their vision or the riot zombie who you have to attack the back, these are more bigger ones but then there's also the clown zombie who will run away making squeaking sounds that draw in zombies and also downed survivor who will run if you do him damage but if you manage to kill him he will give you supplies, these uncommons don't appear on every level or even every time but their unique appearance spices up the gameplay each time.
Kind of a side note about the characters. I didn't care about a single one of b4b's characters. I played all the way through the base campaign, and Holly is the only character whose name I can remember and thats only because I found her annoying. I will now write what I think the other characters names were based on memory.
Fat guy with vest: Hoffman
Black guy with red hat: Marcus
Emo girl: Luna
Old lady: Carol
Asian lady: Kim
That is all the characters I can remember from memory at this time
Edit: Writing this after finishing the video(good video btw) and I really gotta hand it to smoover. Until he made that video I don't know if I've ever seen an objectively wrong opinion. Jokes aside, he's coping hard, and I don't know how he came away from l4d with such a bad outlook, but I hope he revisits it and changes his mind one day.
I bet the development team called them that to cause remembering the names is too hard.
Meanwhile Left 4 Dead's characters:
Bill: Vietnam veteran and team leader
Francis: Tough yet sarcastic Biker dude
Louis: Naive but kind hearted office employee
Zoey: Young college student fighting to survive
Left 4 Dead 2:
Ellis: Southener and a clumbsy kid, that has many stories to share
Nick: Mostly an Asshole, but has come to far to give up now
Coach: Positive high school coach who also loves food
Rochelle: News reporter who also provides the morale of the team
Well, if "more means better" it's a shame that this guy Smoovers missed L4D2's workshop, 'cause it has:
- Unlimited characters.
- Unlimited weapons.
- Unlimited soundtracks.
- Unlimited campaigns.
- Unlimited enemies.
- Unlimited animations.
- Unlimited game modes.
- Unlimited gameplay mechanics.
- Unlimited graphic options.
- Unlimited intros.
- Unlimited sound effects.
- Unlimited HUDs
- Unlimited...... well . .... uh.... you get the idea. Unlimited content as the comunity makes it grow. At this point in L4D2, if something exists, it can be changed.
lol yeah but then he complains about L4D2 having more Campaigns
also I don't think it miss it I think he thinks it doesn't matter cuz B3B doesn't have a workshop
I grew up playing left 4 dead 2 since I was 5 and finding people that hate the game actually bewilders me.
W video, give it a week and its gonna be 5k views ez
Thanks man I'm still surprised that it started catching on like it was. Of course it isn't Mr.Beast numbers or nothing but every time I check it keeps climbing up.
its 2 days and its already halfway.
i would bet 1 day = 1k views
What an undershot lol it's not even halfway through the week and it's hitting the mark😂
5k views already
@@tj9944 alr 10k i got it wrong, you got it better
I absolutely despise how even battlefield is a hero shooter now. New game design is a joke
Great analysis of an extremely narrow-minded and linear take on my beloved Left 4 Dead. It is baffling that his opinion isn't satire with how many flaws it has.
Take a subscription from me.
Zoomer brains are scrambled eggs at this point and they just cannot comprehend what good game design actually is.
Woah Woah hey, I'm a zoomer and l4d2 is one of my favorite games of all time
Hold up! I'm a zoomer too man and I am absolutely disgusted you would group me with THAT GUY!
Bro zoomers don't have anything to do with this lol
@@Stoplookingathatistolethis the kid is practically saying games NEED weapon shops, charts for weapons, and for weapons to have big numbers that go up. Oh, and also, a colored tiering system ala Fortnite. these are all features that newer games use. newer games are enjoyed by zoomers. its not that complicated.
@@EA_SP0RTCENTER your comment gave me the vibe that all zoomers are like that so sorry if I sounded a little rude
Lil bro deleted the video 💀
I know went to watch it and check comments and he got cooked so hard he privated it. 😂
Minecraft doesn't have cars, I fail to see how the solution to a slightly unbalanced mechanic, is not attempting it at all.
Dark Souls is a visual novel.
(Which is actually funny given how much reading is needed to understand anything about the lore)
Smoovers biting the curb 4k ultra 1000 fps
this is quite possibly the most based l4d2 enjoyer ever
we gotta stop intensely justifying our reasons for liking or disliking a game otherwise you get such videos that try *way* too hard to tell you "X is bad, therefore you should hate it".
very much agreed. Especially (tho a bit unrelated) when people go as far as claiming whoever enjoy X thing is problematic in some way (kind of like the "videogame manke you violent" bullcrap)
imagine not paying attention to the game and trying to say 'it has no story' or that 'all the characters are the same' it has the same vibe as someone who plays a visual novel skips all the dialogue then complains that the story was garbage
L4D2 is still better than most modern AAA games
So glad you made this video, he obviously just didn’t even try to play l4d just automatically decided it’s bad because it’s not back for blood.
you've gotta admit, bro cooked the best rage bait seen so far, i refuse to believe any of the things they said in that video are their actual opinions cause never before in my life ive heard a wrong opinion before.
zoomer halo fans would like to have a word with you (Act Man and LateNightGamings minions)
one time the halo CE multiplayer lead dev said on social media "i wanted halo to be like a party game" and said dev doesnt understand what 'party game' means when speaking in terms of game genre (a party game is a series of minigames each with completely fundamentally different rules, such as mario party) so Halotubers took his words out of context and claim "halo isnt an arena shooter, its a party game! because it's fun to play with friends and there are explosions and things flying around!" and now the entire new generation of halo fans have a fundamental misunderstanding of why the games are good
they also paint this picture that the old halos were fun and casual when halo 2 devs literally invented ranked online matchmaking. halo CE literally was the reason professional gaming became popular. they paint this picture that people who play the game to win and not drive into walls with warthogs and pick daisies are "sweaty tryhards"
1:20 "what more is there to L4D2 besides walking forward with the occasional shooting straight ahead", I'm sorry, what ? "occasional shooting" ? did he seriously just say "occasional" shooting ? OCCASIONAL ? I literally almost closed the video right here and there.
He made me legit cringe especially when he talked about the Game Director, and mentioned how it basically makes choosing the difficulty useless, since it can go from hard to easy anyway depending on how we play... This argument can only be made by someone who literally hasn't played the game, plain and simple.
He made me laugh so much when he mentioned that while B4B's shop had problems, L4D's response to it was to not include a shop at all. Does he realize that L4D came out over a decade before B4B ? It's literally like saying that cars are great for transport but cause a lot of pollution, but scientists from ancient Egypt some 5000 thousand years ago found the laziest solution ever : to not use cars at all.
Overall, every single thing and sentence he said was biased, nonsense, and/or downright wrong. I just pointed out the stupidest and cringest ones in my opinion
Bro took down the vid he was got ratioed so hard
The video is now privated too. Either they're ashamed and want to hide it or they're going to make a new video discussing critcisms of his take horribly and doubling down.
"Some of my favorite games are walking simulators"
Opinion discarded.
The more I hear the guy talk, the more I'm convinced he's one of those snob teenagers whose entire identity is dictated by liking a game: he makes arguments around that liking, grasping at straws for everything and turning a lot of subjective stuff into "the other game is bad for not having this", like... yeah, I enjoy Killing Floor 1 and 2 having a shop between waves, but it doesn't mean if it didn't have a shop and used a weapon scavenging system it'd suddenly suck because "Killing Floor is perfect and not doing something it does is not being perfect, so it's bad".
It's the kind of person whose response to you not liking their favorite music band is to make a revenge speech trying to demonize your favorite one and highlight every minor thing of his as the next step of evolution in music, instead of just accepting that he likes a different game, and that even if it's not as well-received, what matters in the end is that he likes it. Hell, even if he thinks it's unfair that the game is being so criticized (which is a thing and I personally defend Mass Effect Andromeda and the Saints Row reboot), he can at least *try* to accept the good in both games because his grievance is with the L4D *community* clowning on his beloved game, not with L4D itself.
He sounds like a person who thinks if every game was exactly like B4B, the industry would be thriving with a myriad of good games, but I guess he never got to the point of his life where he ate his favorite food too many days in a row and got fucking sick of the taste.
As someone who thinks B4B isn't really a bad game, just very underwhelming, I think the "unique character" argument is always my favorite. Yea, B4B has more characters, but those characters having perks built into them or weapon specializations means that if I want to build a character around using shotguns, I'd be severely handicapping myself by playing a character other than "the one who uses shotguns". I might not even like that character, maybe I wanna play as someone else instead. With L4D2, if I wanna use shotguns and play Coach, I can use shotguns and play Coach. Simplicity is often best with games like this.
I saw that video in my recommended and without even watching the video I just said "No... it just isn't". Very nice debunk, enjoyed watching it all the way through!
He deleted his video and started crying in his community posts
Honestly if this guy thinks B4B "implements" better features than L4D2, I don't care what else he might have to say
If your gonna be a contrarian, at least be a well researched one that has at least some semblance of having done some.
My god was that video just outright silly. It really sounds like the dude can't let go of the fact that Back 4 Blood just wasn't a good video game and got shut down as a result.