Green Wall 5.7 : (4K POV first-person beta) : Trad Climbing Seneca Rocks, WV
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- čas přidán 10. 10. 2022
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Just uploading these despite losing subscribers. Consider these vids as personal journal posts. Ignore if not interested!
GRATITUDE:
belays, gear, psych, 'rope bitch' - Eddie C.
auxiliary gear - Persona Sine Nomine
ig: / arduouspaths
web: www.arduouspaths.com - Sport
Just uploading these despite losing subscribers. Consider these vids as personal journal posts. Ignore if not interested!
and it was the friends we made along the way.
and the friends you never get to see anymore >:[
Super cool video. Ever since I drove past it on vacation one time I’ve always wanted to climb it. Awesome
it's unreal to see up close
Thanks for the videos!
whaat thank YOU!
Awesome as always!
AHH thank you!
Wow everything got upgraded with better gear and equipment, what's up?
Nice video, enjoyed watching. Makes me want to get out to sencca and try this route! While I believe that you cant truly judge a rock climb based on go pro footage a couple things I thought were worth noting (for the algorithum)
1) During that runout at the end it felt like there were several gear opportunities on the ledge that wouldn't have been horrible for rope drag if extended with 120
2) even if you dont use lockers ( i usually only do 1) I still think you should secure yourself or at least clip 1 bolt qd style before building an anchor
3) I tend to prefer a clove hitch
Here is hoping for positive discussion as always, just my 2 cents esepcially after seeing the other discussion . Just my 2 cents
1) It's been a while since this vid but I recall feeling pretty fine with the runout at the end all things considered. It's possible that when there was finally opportunity for good gear the climbing was mellow enough not to beg for it. It's also possible my gumby eyes didn't see good placement if it was vital. I also only had 1 shoulder-length by the end (that I used to make a quick anchor).
2) What does 'clip 1 bolt qd style' mean? The process and time spent building an anchor on two bolts and clipping into it on the fat ledge you end up on is virtually analogous to going in direct with a sling. There is no time pressure to shave off 30-seconds to get in direct.
3) a clove hitch between what and what? And what are you replacing/improving on vs. a sliding-x and a girth-hitched sling?
appreciate you watching the vid! It sounds like your system works for you and I'm all for it, if that's what you're looking for discussion on.
Just checked the video date, makes sense. It just came up in my feed. Not pretending to be gods gift to climbing its possible the protection wasn't there or it was more mellow than it looked. I tend to think everything looks more sus on gopro. 2) When I get to a bolt anchor especially after anything remotely aprocaching a run out I like to clip one bolt like I am sport climbing just as some measure of protection. If my stance sucks I can clove into it. @@arduouspaths
Oh got it I see your meaning. Yes if I was feeling uneasy I definitely would have gotten something in. I was no-hands standing on a flat wide ledge and thus, run-out or not, the stance I was in was perfectly safe. Conversely, if I was in a risky stance, even if my last piece was within arms reach I'd probably still want to go into the anchors with one of your methods ASAP @@baileynicholson251
Niice!!
Pol!! graciassss
Thanks for the video! Love checking these out before climbing it. Did you do all three pitches (per mountain project) in one go?
aw thank you for watching! nopers, we broke up the pitches. Don't remember doing too much research on this climb besides knowing it's a all-star classic.
Did you lose a red BD cam at the 6:25 mark in this video? If you did I clipped it as fixed gear today.
thankfully I did not! how are the temps today?
That was a nice video. Do be careful with that anchor set up. You are literally trusting your life (and presumably of your second, if you were belaying afterwards) on two non-locking carabiners. Never do that, the chance of failure of that system is too high, and two locking carabiners are chep enough!
thanks so much for watching my video! Happy to have a civil discussion about this if you're up for it: The reasons I think it's okay to use nonlockers are that I am in two very good quality and well-maintained bolts on a trade route. I am also top-belaying meaning I am present at the anchor the whole time and able spot any funny business should it occur. If you sport climb at all, you'll also know that a typical sport anchor are two nonlocking quickdraws each through a bolt and in that scenario you're not even at the anchor to keep an eye on it. With all that said though, you're right two lockers are cheap enough and arguably safer (my opinion is that I was 100% safe and it makes no statistical improvement if lockers upgrade it to 200% safe). Open to your thoughts, and thanks for taking the time to comment!
@@arduouspaths thanks for the response! First of all, I agree that the bolts are safe (I am not arguing for backing them up with an extra anchor point). You are making a few wrong assumptions there, and let me explain you why. First, the risk with non-locking carabiners is not that they are less resistant than locking ones (they sometimes are, but not relevant; a single non-locking carabiner can easily hold the weight of any load you throw at it). The risk is that, under sudden loads and vibrations (e.g. your second taking a fall in which you suddenly load the carabiner, or even the carabiner hitting the wall) can open the gate for a fraction of a second, and if for any reason the sling happened to be close to the gate (which can happen again through sudden moves, or even if the carabiner happens to rotate and be loaded transversally) that's it, the sling will come out and you are suddenly trusting just one single anchor point, with (again) a non-locking carabiner. While I agree that the chances of this happening are low, it has happened, and there are many documented accidents due to this mistake.
As for sport climbing, the set up you are describing (a quickdraw on each bolt) is only accepted if nobody is top roping. You get to the anchor, clip both quickdraws, get lowered, and the next person leads the route. As soon as someone decides to top rope, that set up is as dangerous as the one you have in your video here.
Climbing is serious enough that you want to do everything in the safest way possible, provided that the safest way makes sense. I agree, the safest thing could be to just stay home, but if you want to climb and not take unnecessary risks, something like using locking carabiners on belay stances is simple enough, and it significantly increases the safety margin for you and your climbing partners.
Edit: by the way, another mistake is putting the gates pointing in the same direction. If you ever HAVE to use single carabiners (out of material at an alpine route) or when using two quickdraws taking laps on a sport route, make sure the gates are pointing outwards, in opposite directions!
@@lregoli Hi, thanks for a civil response. I hear you about sudden fall loads pushing the gate open on carabiners and that it's a possibility. If there's one thing I've learned across my climbing lifetime is that weird shit just happens. You're completely right that climbing is a serious activity and it requires vigilance and focus or else life-threatening errors can occur. Locking carabiners on belay stances are indeed a small and harmless upgrade. I support your choice for locking carabiners 100%. After considering your points I am still comfortable with my decisions, but still open to hearing more if you are enjoying this discussion:
1. Opposite and opposing non-locking quickdraws are absolutely an acceptable standard for top-roping sport lines. It was taught to me by IMGA guides when I started out over 10 years ago, and it's been done consistently across everywhere I have climbed across four continents. In some areas the local ethic is even to top-rope through the fixed "quickclips" or "mussy hooks" (which don't lock).
2. If the concern is non-locking carabiners opening up the anchor gates, what are your thoughts on the typical 3-piece SLCD/Nut trad anchor? Do you swap out the carabiners for locking ones on each? IMGA teaching standards do not enforce a locking carabiner on each cam or nut of the anchor system there. To draw out a clearer analogy: if there were three bolts, what are your thoughts for using 3 non-locking biners since that is analogous to a typical 3-piece trad anchor?
3. I agree you are right that the gates would be better if facing out, away from the rock and potential hard points. I should have rotated them before loading them such that the gates are out. But to the point of 'opposite directions' you made, these carabiners are single carabiners on each bolt and in that situation the heuristic of 'opposite and opposed' isn't applicable.
4. I don't doubt that accidents have happened. I searched for 'nonlocking carabiner anchor failures' but couldn't find any accident reports detailing that specific failure. Do you have any in mind (you said "many documented accidents") that I could read about? For what it's worth, the top few hits from my query provide lots of articles specifically stating that non-locking carabiners are completely fine as an anchor setup: 1: www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/109502276/is-this-an-unsafe-practice-non-locking-biners-on-anchor 2: www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/debunking-anchor/climbing-myths-part-1 3: blog.alpineinstitute.com/2014/08/whats-wrong-with-this-picture.html (answer #4)
An important thing I want to get across is that I'm not looking to change your mind. I'm a strong advocate for climbing your own climb and your personal responsibility and risk tolerance. Thank you for commenting because I see it as concern for a fellow climber and I appreciate it. I hope you read my response in the best of ways.
@@arduouspaths hi, thanks for that excellent and well thought-out response! I am really glad you took the time to look for more information, and I really appreciate your last statement. I do personally tend to switch to locking carabiners for trad anchors, unless I am equalizing with a knot that will keep the sling in place. I did look at some images online and realized that a lot of people do not, which made me want to go back to some manuals. I guess over 20 years doing something wired my brain in a way that I kind of cringe when I see that, but I accept that there might be good explanations as to why that is acceptable. One scenario I didn't mention before is, once a carabiner opens, the load you are exerting on it can easily cause it not to lock again, so even if the sling did not come out, you will be effectively hanging on an open carabiner, that has significantly less resistance than its nominal one.
As I said, you raised a few points that made me think, and it is fair that you ask for reports about accidents, so I'll take some time to look for them. I'll get back to you in a few days, after I have some time to read some more. If you are interested too (and you might have already read those), John Long's book is a great source for anchors. If you can read German or Spanish, there are three excellent volumes on climbing safety written by Pit Schubert. A lot of the information that is embedded in my brain comes from when I learned to climb, and also from those books.
This has been an awesome conversation, thank you! I hope we can continue in a few days!
@@user-ky4jp8jf2p hey, thanks for the remarks! And @arduouspaths sorry for the long silence, I owe you a response! Actually, more than lack of experience, I'd say it's being too used to do something automatically. I've been climbing for over 20 years, and done hundreds (thousands?) of sport climbs, and always use locking carabiners, so my instinct was triggered. I did think about times when I've set up anchors with cams and nuts (which I haven't done as much) and realized that yes, I actually don't put lockers, unless there is a reasonable chance of a factor 2 fall (not common in my case). So yes, I stand corrected, and greatly enjoyed, both the video and the conversation! Thank you both!