Orchestral Programming - The SECRET WEAPON
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2024
- In this video Christian discusses why we all rely so heavily on a device that isn't, at any industrial level. Readily available but essential to the craft of orchestral programming. How orchestral programmers use it AND whether the newly released "Conductor" controller by #ghostnoteaudio has finally defined the format?
All instruments used in this tutorial (in reverse order):
THE VERTICAL PIANO: thecrowhillcompany.com/the-ve...
SMALL STRING GESTURES: thecrowhillcompany.com/small-...
STRING MURMURATIONS: thecrowhillcompany.com/string...
Thanks to Peter Horsch for his excellent track "Vaults Challenger" one of the many tracks submitted by the Crow Hill Network every month as part of challenges placed on this extraordinary membership of composers found at thecrowhillcompany.,com Check out more tracks by Peter here: / peterhorsch
Here's where you can find The Conductor Controller by Ghost Note Audio: ghostnoteaudio.uk/products/co...
What is your favourite solution for orchestral, fader control? - Hudba
What an incredible review. Thank you so much for the kind words and your helpful feedback. A lot of people have commented on the USB port, which is something that I hope to improve in the near future with an updated circuit board. Oh, and I'm sure I can spring for a leaflet to add in the box with some quick-start information :) - that was a bit of a silly oversight on my part.
Why micro usb ??? If it was usb c instant buy
Are you planning on doing a usb c version ?
@@moviekidtechlife Hi - yes we are planning a USB C version. Customer feedback has been very clear that USB-C is preferred, and we are updating the design to accommodate a USB C port. It will be a few weeks before those units are up for sale. If you'd like to get notified when they become available please sign up for our mailing list (bottom of the website) - I only send 2-3 emails a year and promise not to fill your inbox :)
@@GhostNoteAudio great will sign up …do u do any other control surfaces with motorised faders ?
What are the dimensions of the case? It helps to know when desk space is limited
Chris: Wants to review a new piece of hardware.
Also Chris: Gives a Masterclass in playing String Instruments realistically.
Not only a great product review but a great demonstration of it's use. We all want one now. The amount of travel on those faders is just what the doctor ordered.
I can't quit looking At the synthesizer
It really is... As a sample developer it makes those extra dollars spent on more dynamic layers all the more worthwhile!
FANTASTIC! Finally one I can get myself behind!
This is what I’ve been looking for. Great stuff!
🎉
This is absolutely incredible to bring these different elements on the fly as you play. This is a must have for me. Thank you so much for this review. Regards Andre from SA
It's nice to see and hear from you again. I really missed your expertise.
Fantastic review and super example of string work!
Thanks Christian, nice to know this is available.
Great video, super informative. Love Christians nail polish in the unwrapping.
What a great bit of kit! looooong overdue.
I’ve been scouring the net for EXACTLY this solution, stopping videos hoping to see brand names, but honestly, none of the controllers were nifty and small enough. Thank you, and your improvement remarks are spot on. Ordering one right now, getting a second one when your improvement suggestions are implemented. Btw, using a good, heavy expression pedal for modulation works wonders when you want to keep your fingers on the keys.
For those in the USA, "the midi maker" has a very similar product called the sparrow. It can even be updated the same way via a web interface. I have no affiliation other than I bought one a few years ago and love it.
Indeed ! I've been using a SPARROW for the past 3 years now. Love it. No affiliation either :)
@guyshard why is it nessecary to go online to "flash it"? I'm not quite understanding, why isn't midi learn adequate? And If not, why wouldn't they make a app so you didn't need to connect to the web to flash it?
@@EricJohnson-fh8zj You would want to use this function should you want to change the default CC parameters and/or update the firmware if recommended to do so.
thank you. do you know how it does with Pro Tools?
@@Michael-wh3je I am a Cubase Pro user so I cannot really say but it's just a very basic midi controller so it should work with no issue. I gave up on Pro Tools personally because of Midi connection issues I had BUT that's jut me :)
You played the best 80s song (background)in my opinion. Such a great track.
It’s a brilliant track. Well done to Peter Horsch! The track is here for anyone who wants a listen: soundcloud.com/peterhorsch/peter-horsch-vault-challenger
I had no idea I was even interested in this stuff…until I started watching this video. Now I’m very interested! I agree, it sounds much more realistic once you started fading timbre and expression while playing. Thank you!
Great review! Thank you 4 your video :)
I'm 1/4 of the way in, and I need this. Like, immediately
Whoops sorry!
@@TheCrowHillCo so rude haha
Great piece of kit in a reasonable price and it seems well built as well.The problem with all of those things (and trust me I have/had a few of those type of controllers) is that we need at least 4 faders / 4 buttons / 4 knobs !! 4 faders equals CC 1 / CC 11 / CC 21/22 / CC 7 . 4 Buttons equals - 4 mic positions on/off and 4 knobs equals Mics volume or whatever.If someone is listening and build this in a reasonable price we will all consider buying.We don't need less or more but precisely what I mentioned above .My 2 cents
You're speaking to the repented, I'm done with mic positions!
@@TheCrowHillCo ❤
I like that you have a Rubik's cube right there in front!! I've always just been drawing the CC levels . so much that I'm used to it and already think about it when I input my notes
great video
Awesome tips on how to make strings sound more realistic. Thanks!
My very great pleasure
Understanding the importance of expression really boosts the realism in orchestral programming
I still feel that breath controllers are the real secret weapon for organic sounding dynamics for almost any instrument, not just winds or brass. With added bonus of generally being more articulate than continuous foot controllers, and leaving both hands free to play chords or manipulate other controllers.
I will get one when the production of the USB C start. Thank you for this great review.
magistral lesson ! thanks a lot.
Absolute pleasure
what a lovely video man
Been using the VS Faderbox for a few years. The spacing is pretty much what you are suggesting. 100 mm throws - smooth action. Programmed the same way. Not cheap but does the job so well.
Good tip!
Nice one. Great to get your info on the controllers and well done @ghostnoteaudio 🙏
Hear hear ghost note!
This does look very nice. What I liked about the Nuances controller is how you can change CC value per fader by holding down the button at the top and moving the fader to the desired CC value. If a v2 of the "Conductor" had something like this I'd be very interested, especially with that level of throw. Would be cool if there were a downloadable version of their MIDI editor so you could still make changes if you were working remotely with no access to internet! (unless that already is possible?)
great video and explanation for us non orchestral trained musicians using orch software, can I make a suggestion for you, Remove the sticky round rubber feet from the controller ( Im assuming there just adhesive stick feet ) and buy some of that roll of non stick rubber mesh and cut a piece for under the controller and then you have a flat stable non moving controller footprint, at any angle. I have this stuff under all my gear and stops rubber feet from losing grip on laminate desk tops .
So so so so true... I built some Ikea furniture yesterday and actually enjoyed it! I think I've hit an age where actually doing stuff with my hands may bring pleasure.
I'm building my own. Parts are cheap. Mine will have USB-C and a display that shows the value of the slider used.
I will buy it !
What about a app or feature included so you dont have to go online to a website to "flash" it or whatever he said?
I'm also not quite understanding why that's even nessecary tho. Why wouldn't just using midi learn be adequate?
Can we have the plans ?hey great
Hahah this is such a specific tool for a specific job. Love these kinds of things.
I have several devices at home that are controlled by net interfaces. Simple, effective. Nice to see a MIDI controller working in this way.
That personal note gave me goosebumps
Great product. I’ll have to get one. Long lead time now!
That fractals effect on your Vertical Piano is beautiful! Gives me Flight of the Navigator vibes!
Looks great! But yes going to wait for the USB c version and one with a light to know it's working. Helps just for knowing it's on when trouble shooting if nothing else. Although there are other very similar items now too that do have numerical displays to show what cc is being controlled etc..
That is a really cool development!
A simple Video to walkthrough the setup is even better than the manual..
The bottom of the fader bank could use a gel type pad with enough depth to form to and grip odd surfaces. Between that ‘grip’ and the ideal weight the pad would offer resistance to moving while orienting naturally to the user’s preference.
They have indeed got overwhelmed and are sold out but are following the same process as Pierre of Nuances Controller, which is to sign up to the newsletter to be informed when the shop has stock, ideally with a day and time. One tip for Ghost Audio would be that when they send it, a small note as Christian describes but also a request like Pierre to unsubscribe so that they can manage the amount of new folks interested. I also have a Sparrow 3X100 from The MIdi Maker which is not sold out and works great (and is narrow between faders).
This is probably THE best explanation of controllers I've seen, and the Conductor looks like a lovely device. I currently use a nanoKONTROL2 for this, it's good enough (and pleasingly cheap) but I would very much like the longer fader travel you mentioned. Unfortunately the Conductor, and indeed every other similar cottage industry device like it, are really priced a bit too high for me.
I use the same device. True, not enough travel on the sliders. It doesn't need to be as much as the Conductor, if you could introduce non-linearity into the MIDI responce. Is there any MIDI interface/editor that can set this up?
These things probably use an arduino or something to read a linear slider. Wouldn’t be much to program other response curves.
Thanks so much.
@gilesmoss5860 I have nanoKontrol2 too, but it doesn't want to work. What DAW are you using, and what OS? I have Cubase 13 Pro (Win11).
@@lukdub Cubase 13 on Win10. Cubase recognised the nK2 and loaded a MIDI Remote template for it automatically. If the PC isn't seeing the nK2, perhaps try reinstalling the latest driver from Korg.
If you prefer to use the nK2 as a 'dumb' MIDI controller rather than as a smart(er) MIDI Remote in Cubase, you can disable the driver for it in the setup. Note that the MIDI Remote driver resets the nK2 to a default state when Cubase loads it, so any custom mapping of CCs to controls will be over-written.
I wish there was a touch sensitive motorised version
Yes sir!! Long throw faders!
Hurrah!
Amazing video and review, as always!!! I was wondering why you abandoned the super lush shed in favour of a smaller studio? Just curious, as I missed the explanation you have probably already given. Many thanks and congrats on the always trend-setting content.
Must be popular they are sold out - thanks for your video 👍
I would also consider how you place your palm, do you rest it outside the box or maybe onto the box. What would be the most comfortable and ease of use. I imaging the sharp edges will make the hand a bit soar after some time? Resting the hand on the box would possibly integrate a more relaxed and natural interaction. But that would mean the box needs to be longer. Some users wouldn't appreciate it (the groups as Christian having the box onto the keyboard), while some would (the group having the box on a desk). With that said, there's no one single perfect midi controller. But some day maybe we'll come a bit closer.
Chasing the illusion of perfection… Thanks for the tips!
I really like this, the size seems great and I love the feel of API faders. I hear USB-C is coming so I'm going to wait for that. But this seems to be the one for me.
That is very exciting news!
WOW... €200 for just 3 faders.... Expensive !
one could buy the three faders 🎚️ for 17£. clumsy breadboard or that wee bit of soldering. done and u make it usb c 🎉happy days
Everyone wants to get rich quick scheme the market for self gain at others expense. What a rip-off.
@@christianjensen1 add a button and small LCD screen and you can also reattribute the faders to CC on the fly.
Great review, fantastic product, thank you. Had to laugh though, "we're not all space age nerds", he says in front of the blinking Colossus... beautiful ! : > }
Looks great. I’ve been using my ssl UF8 for all my midi now, it’s great and ver customisable. But the Ghost Note looks good tho, definitely cheaper than my solution. 😊
SSL make some really solid stuff!
Thanks Christian. Why did you choose it over the Nuances? It seems Nuances covers all the criticisms that you discussed at the end of the video.
I had exactly the same question. I saw it crossing the screen in the beginning of the video, so Christian also has the Nuances controller, and given the requirements expressed during the video, I feel the Nuances controller even better addressed his needs (I.e. USB C, power light, slightly smaller which is good for smaller hands, no need for software to set cc levels and channels is it is very easily implemented in the hardware). I would be curious to hear from Christian why I does not use this Nuances controller.
Hey Christian, this looks like a really great controller. I've come to really appreciate that minimalistic design in hardware. But have you seen Harmony by Viper Synths? I've tried TONS of controllers for orchestral music but IMHO this is by far the best one. Beautifully built and even better, requires no software at all to assign CC's.
I had a funny feeling this video wasn't going to be the end of it.
Thank you for making this video and explaining why we need these things. I am in Victoria BC, Canada at this moment and I have asked a local tech guy to build a similar thing and he did. I am one of the fortunate people to own a prototype. If I could post a picture of in this feed I would. His model has 4 faders 100mm travel with 2 buttons and lights to select and program sliders to CC adn channels. Like your provider, it is difficult to use as it came with minimum instructions or manual and it is not as easy to map via the eternet as the one you have. Anyhow Thanks for this I am still hoping to get a product that works seamlessly with Logic Pro and my sound librairies but I'm not sure I have enough lifetime to see that day...
Good points, from Vancouver BC, want something mapped for Logic Pro simple and easy.
Hi - thanks so much for your great musical and technical inspiration since many years. With regard to this and other controllers, I wonder if and when you will make your new libraries MPE-capable. I have been using Osmose as an MPE keyboard for a while now and I can clearly see that the possibilities of this and comparable MEP keyboards go far beyond the use of the controller presented, because they are more intuitive and allow you to play with both hands.
Will your future libraries be MPE-capable?
hmm i have a juno ds sitting in storage with mixer sliders on it, I imagine I could midi map those in the same way? great video, really helped my anxiety with using orchestral plug ins
Look great ! But the space between faders and the online editor is not for me. I'm using the Ferdz cinetic ctrl for a while with an onboard midi cc editor, fit perfectly to my workflow.
Nice presentation but what about the products by Expressive E? Touché and lately the Osmose? I have a touché and it can definitely do what this controller can do probably (my opinion) in a better and more natural way
This is great! I would add only a piece of velcro to keep it in place:) YMMV
Since we're talking about using faders for expression, I would've expected some mention of expression pedals and why those aren't good enough. I like the Boss FV-500L. Plug it into any Moog and it'll turn it into a 14-bit MIDI CC. The average YT Ableton jockey avoids pedals, but people who know what they're doing are at least using a sustain pedal.
But I get why you want good faders as well. I'm used to the 60 mm faders on an Allen & Heath or at least the 45 mm faders on a Pioneer mixer. And certainly anybody with any time on a legit desk is going to hate the faders on their MIDI controllers.
Christian, would you recommend this over the ChoiSauce design fader?
lovely piano sound ... what software is it ?
Oh wow, now this is interesting 👀
Another device to add to the list of "Wouldn't it be nice if..." I could certainly use something like this, but budget (or rather, lack thereof) means I will just have to keep using the wheels built into my keyboard for this purpose. The fact that these are mounted at the far left of an 88-note keyboard means it's a bit of a nuisance when recording piccolo parts or double bass parts. But that's what I have, and will continue to use for the forseeable future.
It's a neat device. Good review, too.
For Maschine users the Maschine Jam does this and even more. You have 8 touch sliders and a thousand buttons. You can even set different states with the 8 sliders and change them on the fly with the buttons. You have to set it up before hand but what I do is to make a Maschine file template for use with the String Murmurations for example. I’ve been doing this with all of Slate and Ash’s mpe stuff since I don’t have a mpe controller. For me it’s just as good as a mpe keyboard.
Too big for sitting on my Komplete Keyboard and tonmove it around as needed. At least for me.
What pop filter is that? Looks really great combined with RE20.
Ok this video is just beautiful and very very clear....by the way there is one issue I'd love your opinion about or (please) a suggestion.
I see that the overall process involves that you provide expression, timbre, dynamics etc...while you are playing with your right hand. So, everything is live.
Now, what if the user or composer is not a keyboard or piano player but a guitar player? Imagine my right hand is not skilled like yours, imagine I can't make free and flowing movements so it's a bit hard for me to play effectively with my right hand and simultaneously operate the controller with my left hand...how would you solve this?
I thought one thing that could work is to first play and record notes without any expression, timbre etc... (I call this the "german work") and just after this step make a second recording passage on the same track during which you only use the controller's faders....So you add expression in a second passage without deleting the previous recording. What do you think about this? Do you have other or better solutions?
Very interesting!! Have you ever considered using something similar but with foot pedals?
I already own a Nuances controller, otherwise I‘d certainly be interested. These types of controllers bring orchestral libraries alive like nothing else. Well, knowing how to play like Christian might help as well…I find three sliders ideal. Apart from the length of the the faders they also need to be rightly spaced. And the box needs to be big enough so you can work the faders. And small enough to put it exactly where you need it. Most of them are handmade by small manufactures and afaic they are totally worth their price.
Nice control. My Yamaha ES 7 has 4 controller and seems they provide this expression reasonably well. Can you direct me to any link where there is listed a set of MIDI control operations one can transmit from the ES & to Logic pro? THanks
I’ll have a look for ya!
@@TheCrowHillCo frkn awesome
Would it possible to do a version with led visual feedback on it, so you know where the value is as you change tracks/instruments?
How much would something like that be likely to cost?
Currently have the Monogram which is great but does lack that feature
I type the controller numbers onto the master unit for each profile. Eg Spitfire, VSL, etc. When I switch profiles I can see how I’ve set the CC faders.
I need a full on video of why you switched to Cubase STAT
I use 3 expression pedals on the floor leaving both hands free. On my Jamstik studio guitar if the sw used MPE I would be able to do exactly what you said, so the sw for strings, woodwinds and brass etc need to be developed with MPE. I also use a Mooer Wind for bellows instruments, but the software is not really good at it. So I believe Spitfire where you have to switch MPE off because it doesnt support is a problem. I believe the fundamental problem is how the software is configured for wind and string instruments. Using faders is a cop out! As a sw engineer and playing several instruments please try to take this seriously 😊😊😊😊
Is there any possibility that this evolves into some sort of XY touchpad controller? Seems like that could give you more options for expression
Henson, costing me more money. but seriously, nice bit of kit, and thanks for the heads up!
Back to my old self, sorry.
i really appreciate you bringing up gender and ergonomics
LOve your channel! Do you have any videos on how to promote ones work to production companies and preserve copy rights? I have some work I think is appropriate for film and or TV . Any guidance would be appreciated.
Instead of having to re-flash your device, I think you can add track effects in recent versions of Logic which re-map MIDI controllers.
yes, please make a "Christian Henson Edition" and i'll buy one
Seriously thinking about it!
@@TheCrowHillCo Let's talk about ; )
Would there be any advantage in doing a four fader version or not? I think I could produce one of these with a narrower spacing between the faders for better ergonomics and you could reprogram the CC via the device itself with a single button and an LED segment display that would give you a light too.
I have one with 4 faders and a digital display which is very similar
Hi Christian, IIRC you're a Logic user, yeah? Well, in the unlikley case you didn't know, CC numbers can easily be changed (as well as a lot of other stuff if you like) in the Environment window. The changes can be in your templates, different per song, whatever you like. And thanks for the great videos - I really like the Crow Hill vibe! 👍
You said a bad word.... environment window.
@@TheCrowHillCoI still believe there’s a MIDI modifier plugin you can insert before each instrument, so your whole Template can work with the same number for your faders.
@@TheCrowHillCo LOL!!! It's actually 2 words. 🙃
That's cool that you can configure the device just using a web page. But I hope you can save that web page locally or else it better be online forever.
I guess it means it can’t be lost? 🤔
I had a look at the source. It looks like it should be quite easy to save it locally.
And it's all just MIDI SysEx commands anyway, so you could also control it from other software or hardware, if you're enough of a nerd.
By the way yours new Libary of the piano is unified. One of the community send it to me… this is this time not done by John Lehmkul or Pluginguru.
There are a lot of ways to control a couple of MIDI channels. Foot pedals, XY pads, breath controllers…
Now all we need is the same thing with an XY controller right beside it in the same enclosure!
Tasty biscuits.
check out the Intech Studio Grid EF44. cheaper and 60mm faders. usb c. can add on other modules for encoders and knobs as needed.
Thanks for the recommendation! I just checked it out
Does flashing it over and over break it eventually? I always get the warning when flashing stuff that you’re taking a risk
At last!!! Thank you so much!!!
Long throw faders.... hurrah!
Hi Christian, Has this piece replaced your Monogram equipment, and if so, why? Thanks
Hello?
I don't understand, there are plenty of controllers with sliders.
Yeah it seems like that’s all this is? He didn’t do a great job of showing how it’s different, if it is, at least anywhere in the first part of the video. And I already have sliders and buttons, so I’m not going to hunt for the answer in a 20 minute video.
But not this slider 🙄
I think they are really accurate and musical faders.
@@franklopez4028 “musical” sliders, eh? They don’t send midi 1-127 like the rest of them?
@@JonValtandtheEvilRobots how long is their throw, how smooth they pull are huge factors. I'm not buying this but it doesn't mean that boutique gear doesn't have merit when it delivers.
Also, there's the AMC3 for comparison which has display, and saves settings on it. Then there's the "sparrow" controllers. But out of all of them i think this one looks the nicest perhaps! I'd say we nearly are spoilt for choice now since that French dude got famous and others started realising we need simple goo controllers!
4:30 / 5:11 The newbie I am would be interested to see a whole video on these technical diferences in order to really understand them.
Christian could tell us that sliding chop sticks up and down will get me closer to the sound he gets out of a DAW…and I’d buy it! I trust this man and I am running to my wallet. Cheers!
Interesting tool, but how about expression pedals? (Obviously that only gets you one control not two)
I think your studio needs a Yamaha CP300, it's a stage piano with a nice flat top. Somewhere to put the keyboard, mouse and faders.
I’ve been seeing a lot of these around! 🤔
Typically you’d have to adjust those volumes and tones within the program, but having the manual faders adds an organic vitality that otherwise would take longer to achieve and not produce the exact same result.
Interesting🤔I've noticed vintage synths like the Roland D50 do that naturally. I had a look & the aftertouch circuit is non linear & allows for his type of expression when releasing the keys.
Just ordered one.
Lucky you! I hear they’ve sold out 😮
Aha you finally revealed where you got the controller! 😄 too dear for me unfortunately.
Ah shucks! There are some cheaper alternatives around, last resort is always eBay!
7:16 Does MIDI learn change this?
You can re-flash the controller to send a different MIDI controller value using the web app.
Then you can MIDI learn in an instrument such as ours to control the parameters. (Make sure the controller and instrument track and sending and receiving from the same MIDI channel.)
Beautiful strings, which library?
thecrowhillcompany.com/ (both are on home page)
@@TheCrowHillCo Thank you! 🙂
sold.out.
please bear with us as we finish assembling the next batch of units :) We just got a new shipment of circuit boards yesterday, and the 3D printers are working overtime making enclosures. We should be all caught up within a week or two, and I've enabled orders on the website again for people who are happy to wait a few extra days.
@@GhostNoteAudio hey thanks for the heads up!
Thought they might.
Cool
Thanks! 😊