Are Ests the Best? Are They Worth Using At All? Fire Emblem Character Archetype Analysis
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
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In today's episode we're discussing the Est archetype! This is another hotly debated archetype with many potential units throughout the series. But some fans believe this archetype may not exist at all, or that others have been too quick to call many characters Ests! Est was a Pegasus knight sister from the very first Fire Emblem game (Dark Dragon and the Sword of Light) who joined the player very late into the player's journey at a really low level, with the player even having recruited her sisters Catria and Palla and given the opportunity to use them quite way earlier on. This trend continued throughout the series, with Ests being units that join you very late in the game but typically have above average or even potentially great growth rates, providing a unique opportunity to give the player a unit with amazing potential... just a bit last minute. Without many chapters left in the game to use them in and with their horribly low starting levels and base stats, are they even worth it? And with their sort of duality with the Jagen archtype; who's objectively better, Jagens or Ests? Let's find out. Thanks for watching, guys! (۶•̀ᴗ•́)۶
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Many screenshots in this episode are from the amazing Let's Play Archive:
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Unit stats and data thanks to Serenes Forest (of the best Fire Emblem resources):
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Character information, images, and more from the Fire Emblem Wiki:
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Great point by RDS1 about the Ewan vs Knoll Est controversy:
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How many archetypes do you acknowledge?
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*_My Mom told me there's nothing wrong with using Ests. SO DON'T YOU DARE MAKE FUN OF MEEEEEEE!!!1_*
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Lucky Crit lol. I believe Est archetypes are great, they are there for those who like to put time and effort in their units. I personally enjoy having a weak unit turn into a beast by leveling them up, it makes me feel accomplished.
Well, my daughter's name is Est; she's only 16 months old, but I think if I take the time to raise her, she'll turn out pretty well with her great growths.
Rezzy That's pretty cool, best of luck. Make sure to tell her as she grows "Est is Best"
Yuveria told you?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Can we all agree that Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War is the raddest name of all time?
Yes agreed best fire emblem game in the series imo
@@jeanefan Depends of your tastes: Genealogy is really short compared to other games in the series and also really easy. I like Tharcia more because you have more elements to take into account like Fatigue, Capture and Stealing Weapons.
@@RandalfElVikingo as a matter of fact im actually played thracia 776 via emulator right now im up to chapter 5 and absolutely loving it!! Much harder than other fire emblem games. Didn't realise you can actually miss when healing allies too! Defo adds to the difficulty of the game as well. If fire emblem is gonna do another remake its definitely these 2 imo they were both never released here in Australia!
@@jeanefan It was one of the last games released for the SNES, so it's one of the less known games of the franchise lol.
Glad you're having fun, that chapter can be tough, but it's a good source of magic tomes. The next chapters are fun, except the Gaiden chapter lol You will start noticing Fatigue two or three chapters after that one.
@@RandalfElVikingo "Really easy"
Me who lost like 10 units in the first chapter: Yeah... Very easy...
Growths can't save you if RNG spits at your face like it spits at mine.
cuz bases>growth
I got, In FE8, A perfect growth with Lute, then 3 levels of everything but Magic, Then a flawless level, then normal levels afterwards.
@@therapeface4153 Tell that to Corrin and Donnel.
My Erika died to a 1% critical that did 50!
Is it fair to call this entire channel the Est of FEtubers? I mean:
-You joined in 2015, meaning you were late to the 'game' compared to the other big channels like Mangs and Sages.
-You didn't have a lot of credibility or recognition at first, but you've grown extremely well in the past two years.
- You've had some health issues, which would be a stand in for the Ests' bad HP/Def.
I mean, I'm not crazy in this comparison, am I?
Lmao
"Am I crazy, or just crazy LUCKY!? WOO!"
Sages? Like sagesmaster? Im sorry but he sucks as a Fe youtuber
lisa semarron Who else would I be talking about?
lisa semarron And I said nothing regarding his quality, I just noted that he was high in the community opinion.
Who?
of course the first comment i see is Mangs
Wasn't she some random flier in that weird chapter in fe11?
Docaccino
The hell's a Nino?
Mangs
Im Doing my best to remember
Hector was so awesome I had to force myself to NOT use him, just to be able to level up my other mans.
Also, the fun of Ests is their Magikarp Power - you get to level this lowbie unit to super power level... Like having adorable little Nino wrecking dudes left and right is pretty neat.
"Raising" them can be fun, or a good self-imposed challenge, but that still doesn't make them great units the way people hype them up to be. Nino is the common example people are familiar with. Even if you get her to 20/15, she's basically comparable to Pent at max. When maxed, she's only marginally better than him. The same EXP to get her the ~20 levels you need to make her comparable to Pent, who you get ~4 chapters earlier, could get him from level 6 to level ~15. Still, Nino can at least see some good use. Nino can also be very useful if you're going for an S-Rank playthrough, since one of the factors they track is total EXP gained throughout the campaign. Similarly, Est (especially in Gaiden/SoV, where Falcoknights in general are among the best units in the game) can be fairly good.
You can use them, if you so choose, but I think my issue is when many beginners think of them as the best units in the game due to their biases about Magikarp power common to other RPGs.
Pitfall!
You Squidding Me? Im pretty sure the statement “you can use them” is a way of saying that ests arent usually unusable units despite often being some of the worst in their game
Est in gaiden/echoes is the best est. Gaiden falcoknights are busted wide open, and Gaiden also has the Angel ring to double all her growths. Echoes Est has the highest non-mage resistance in the game at base 12, and can be easily trained on witches that deal 0 damage to her, whereas Palla and even Catria will suffer against them.
That said she desperately needs some grinding to make her useable, and a lot of players don’t like that.
MythrilZenith angel ring doesn't double growths, it just makes you get 2 points in a stat when you level up instead of one.
Lyn Is Hot This is correct. And gaiden est is so much better, simply because grinding her and promoting her is actually easier due to how the triangle attack works (Nullifying enemy defenses and being able to proc on enemy phase) and the edition of easy mode + mummies give SOOOO much EXP. Lastly, Gaiden est's growths aren't hampered with in the form of class growth modifications that change her defensive and offensive stats in favor of speed, which she will already get a ton of. Gaiden est is better than echoes est, and as such, is the best est out of all of them. Yes, even shadow dragon and RD.
+Lyn is Hot
Your name is incorrect
+The Rape Face
Uh...
Roy is the best est because hes really good in the end game but trash for everthing else.
I didn't know you could recruit Roy in the endgame. Thought he was the peasant boy you got in Chapter 1. Weird.
Lucky Crit hey don’t insult our boy
Lucky Crit Roy isn't an estimate archetype, the binding blade is an Athos archetype. Joins at the end of game and carries the final maps.
john topping
A. *Est Archetype
B. Weapons can't be Archetypes
C. It's the Gotoh Archetype, not Athos.
D. Karel is the Gotoh of BB.
gameb9oy bro, he only hype in smash because he sucks
If I like the character, I will glady baby the Ests to their full potential!
Tbh I quite enjoy using Ests as it's real rewarding watching your children grow up and eventually slay dozens of foes on their own ^^ Obviously I tend to use them mainly on normal mode playthroughs tho, as it becomes a lot less fun to try using them on harder runs!
PS. Nino is best girl
Yeah I have a soft spot for some of them too, It's almost just part of the experience to grind some weaker units as you go
don't use child soldiers...
+The Rape Face
If you know what I mean...
+The Rape Face
I use child soldiers especially Severa.
The official term for the Trainees as an Archetype is 'Kliff' : A low-tier-classed unit that joins early with bad bases, good growths, and a large variety of classes to utilize. These include Kliff, Tobin, Gray, Faye, Donnel, Amelia, Ross, (technically) Ewan, and Mozu.
Amelia is never good. Ross is a suitable candidate though.
Ross*
Joshua Sun If Amelia was a Probation Flier instead of a Recruit, her growths would be more fitting, and she might be a better unit.
ewan doesn't join early.
The Rape Face Note how I said 'technically' ; Besides his join time, he fit the rest of the criteria for being a Kliff.
18:55 Jeigans or Ests?
Trick question. The answer is Oifeys.
Oifeys really aren't different enough to be considered their own archetype. Oifey himself falls off pretty hard compared to the kids, so he doesn't stand out that much unless you're doing an all-substitutes run. He also usually can't contribute much in his joining chapter, since you need to feed every single drop of EXP to Seliph to ensure that he can hop on his horse as fast as possible, making the game much less of a test of your patience. He's definitely not bad; being a mounted unit in Genealogy means he will almost always be useful, but he's definitely not different enough from Jagen to be considered his own thing. Hell, I'd make the argument that he falls off harder than Jagen considering Jagen never really falls off to begin with. In FE1, you can just give him stat boosters and strong weapons since stat boosters in FE1 give +4 to a stat instead of +2 and (despite his 0% weapon level growth) Jagen's base weapon level of 10 lets him use every sword and lance in the game except for Gradivus; not to mention that with the rarity of promotion items and extremely underwhelming promo gains, other cavaliers like Cain, Abel, and Hardin will have trouble catching up to him at first. In FE11, Jagen can use forged Ridersbanes to massacre the game's countless horse-riding enemies as well as reclass to Dracoknight for better mobility while maintaining his lance rank. He's basically necessary on Shadow Dragon's higher difficulties, since he's one of the only units out of the seventeen that are recruitable in the first three chapters that won't die if an enemy sneezes on him. He can't solo the entire game like Seth or Titania can, but he remains useful for far longer than his absolutely abysmal growth rates would have you believe. Oifey is good, but he definitely isn't better than Jagen; not by a long shot. Calling Seth an Oifey is an insult to Seth.
Addendum: Now, I have actually completed Genealogy of the Holy War, and honestly, speaking from first-hand experience, Oifey's great. He's one of the most "boring, but practical" characters out there. He has great bases, including respectable bases in magic and resistance which are usually non-existent for physical units (he can actually get some mileage out of magic swords like the Flame Sword), access to an excellent class as a Paladin, high weapon ranks in both swords and lances that let him use a ton of strong weapons, he has two excellent offensive skills (Follow-Up and Critical, which let him double and land critical hits, which you can't do normally because FE4 is weird), and not even his growth rates are bad by Genealogy of the Holy War standards. He's kinda like Sigurd except vastly inferior, because Sigurd is a god and comparing anyone to him just makes them look bad unfairly. His only problem at base is his subpar weapons (Armourslayer and Javelin), but you can easily buy him better weapons since he has a pretty easy time making money in the arena and accessing out-of-the-way villages with his 9 movement. Oifey's more damning and harder to fix problem is that during Generation 2, everyone's a super, so he'll have a hard time keeping up with properly-planned children since he can't inherit items or wield holy weapons and his growth rates are low compared to theirs. He'll always remain useful, but he's definitely not as good as some of Gen 2's other game-breakers. It's a different story if you're using substitutes, though.
its all in a matter of patience. if you got the patience, then the ests are worth it. but Bases are usually more important than growths. in harder difficulties, this statement holds more water.
honestly it depends on the game, nino is pretty easy to build because end game 7 is easy af and no one has res so its not that hard, and any world map ones are pretty worth it is because commitment isnt that much of an argument when everyone can have time put into them. plus sara in 5 is just absurd. though other examples like sophia just being shit, sylvie's son (fuck genealogy names, always changing/ being impossible to pronounce...) only being useful for the valk staff. it all just depends on the layout of the game.
Nino is recruited in Chapter 26 in Eliwood's route or Chapter 28 in Hector's. What you listed in the video is the first time she appears in Blazing Blade (where she shows off what a sweetheart she is), but you don't recruit her until Battle Before Dawn (the chapters I named).
Someone else pointed it out as well, sorry about that, thank you for the heads up. Sometimes it can be challenging to double or triple check everything!
Battle before Dawn... that name... *Vietnam Flashbacks*
@@falsetto6455
It caused you a PTSD?
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx This Game's *PREQUEL* Gives Me PTSD
@@BardockSkywalker
Battle B4 Dawn is actually my favorite map!
So many chests and loot because of Torch Staff Glitch!
For me it really depends on which Est. In Shadow Dragon I really enjoy leveling up Est, and it's pretty simple with her horse slayer, but on New Mystery I don't find it worth it or fun, same in Echoes. Meanwhile I will go out of my way to level up Zeiss in FE6, Nino in FE7 and Pelleas and Kurth in Radiant Dawn. Other Ests I really don't bother. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, just what every person finds fun to do.
I'd have to agree with you. There's definitely some that I would consider using, and others, like Est in New Mystery, that are just way not worth it to me.
penguinkaiser
Agreed
I love your archetype videos! Please make some more in the future like the archetype Silque and Natasha are in. I don’t remember what it is called buts it’s your early game clerics who you rescue
These videos take a LOT of work, but I'll definitely keep doing them. They're not something I can do every week! Thanks for watching, glad you like them!
lena archetype
Lucky Crit thanks
My first FE was 7, and I didn't know about the Est archetype at the time or for a long time afterward. And from the very first playthrough, Nino was one of my favorite units. Both as a character, and because of the whole "joins late and weak and needs investment." I had no idea if she'd be good, but I loved her as a character and I thought it was neat that she started off so late and weak (partially because it really fit her character to not be powerful, and her join time made sense in the story, so I didn't think of it as an archetype or some kind of gimmick or forced thing) because I was looking forward to the challenge of making a character I like actually good. Shepherding her with my strong units to make sure she didn't die, completely reworking my strategies so that she could get the last hit on enemies she couldn't kill alone, it all made the final chapters so much more intense and rewarding. The fact that Nino turned into a total BEAST was just a bonus.
Every time I play 7, it's very hard for me to resist using Nino. She's my favorite mage in that game, and she's just so lovable that it's incredibly hard to leave her on the sidelines - especially knowing she has a very personal stake in the outcome of the battle against the Black Fang.
As for other Ests... eh. I always liked Catria and Palla better as characters, so I never put much work into Est (and already having two pegasus knights was enough for me by then). Ewan like you said is a trainee so he doesn't count, and Knoll never interested me as a character (though I like Canas in 7, and he joins at kind of a low level for that point in the game, though I wouldn't call him an Est).
I like the archetype as a type though, and I wish there were more obvious Ests. That added optional challenge in the late-game is really fun for those who take it on, and it's a way to keep things interesting and put the player into situations where they modify their playstyle for reasons completely separate from map design and level objectives, which is very valuable in a strategy RPG.
Ests are very useful when they're recruitable red units. 30 xp always well earned.
ayyy
are you the guy that wrote the shadow dragon guide that told players to kill recruitable characters
@@unfunny_idiot Nah! I don't write guides. I just shitpost. Besides, if we're thinking of the same guy, the killing recruitable units suggestion wasn't even his most eggregious folly.
@@MogofWar im talking about the one in the mekkah video, worst shadow dragon guide
Again we're thinking of the same guy. All of that guy's advice was pure lolcow... But it does teach us one important thing... The game isn't really as hard as you think it is of that jackass can beat it.
That piece of cake tho 👀👀
U liek choklate chippys broe?
Lucky Crit si 👀 🎂
I'll sent u sum in teh mell bro, chek ur mellbox
Can't wait 🎂😀
For Radiant Dawn and Laguz, you typically only level them with bonus exp instead of through battle. It's slower through battle and with pure bonus experience every Laguz tends to max their stats anyways
Yeah, to be completely honest, I focused way more on the normal units in RD. Since Laguz couldn't class change or anything I deemed it more of a waste of exp and tried to get as many characters as possible into their third tier classes. Tormod (I believe) is the only unit I didn't upgrade.
I love these archetype videos! They are my fav.
I loved Est in FE2. I really enjoyed training her up.
I'm just glad that Nino is a really good unit in Heroes, so I have a game that I can actually use her in. Also Miranda and Pelleas are the coolest Ests. OG Est is also cute.
Yeah Heroes has really made me appreciate a lot more units!
Great vid! I just use Est depending on the run and whether I like the character. Seeing a unit with crazy growths like Nino are fun to train imo. i can see putting work in them to be frustrating, but sometimes i get tired of plowing through foes and barely getting exp late game. lvling up is always satisfying, and better whe you see those numbers going up.
It can certainly be fun! I also totally agree that it's more of a per unit basis as to whether or not I deem it worth it. Thanks for watching!
I will ALWAYS use Nino and none of you will stop me.
*_Pent and Erk take turns crying in the corner_*
Lucky Crit i train Nino in FE7 and she already make it better than Erk in my run haha
Nino is pretty much the only one of this archetype I use, she is just so much better than the other anima mages and it's actually really easy to get her to sage in just 26×
Dan Savage Me too. I just love her personality too much to bench. And later on it's just cathartic to use her.
k
Very nice video Lucky Crit. As a general rule I don't use Ests as I think they are a wast of time and overall not worth the investment as I usually have another character or more in the same class as the Est that is already better. But like every rule of thumb there are some exceptions, I usually level up Jesse as you can never have too many Mercs and being a merc he's a little bulkier and thus easier to train than either Delthea or Est. Pelleas I enjoy using due to being the only Dark Magic user in the game, and I do frequently use Kurthnaga as well. His only problem is being able to one-round KO the enemies otherwise he has no issues surviving enemy phase or dealing out damage. And as you mentioned Paragon will aid him in getting level ups very quickly, plus like his father he has the coolest dragon model.
At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with using Ests, any FE player should feel they have the freedom to use WHOEVER they want.
Samuel Kron yes please
14:07 "Ewan doesn't join that late
15:18 "L'arachel joins fairly late"
You do know that she joins before he does,right?
i think what he meant was that l'arachel joins late for an unpromoted healer. without significant grinding, you'll never get her to promote since she can't fight without first gaining 700 exp, which translates to 64 uses of heal, 59 uses of mend, or 50 uses of heal and 46 uses of mend if you spam l'arachel's torch staff during her recruitment chapter. at least ewan can fight (albeit not very well), he has reliable 1-2 range with his fire tome, and he gains experience at an accelerated rate, so he can get some good levels just from doing chip damage.
I feel like it's a matter of playstyle and that more people should just let people do whatever they want. It's a single player game. If everyone played the game the same way, where would the fun be?
i don't care really. play how you want. just don't say that the way you play is right or that bad units are good.
+The Rape Face
Haha...
wut
+The Rape Face
Omae wa mou shindeiru.
Shit meme.
This makes me want to build Est in heroes even more. I just cant seem to get any with good IVs
I've actually been thinking about this as well! She's a pest to pull, but I'd consider 5*ing her!
Lucky Crit Yep thats the plan. The second I get a +atk Est I'll start building her right away. I'll likely end up building her with the brave lance def ploy set
Line Perfect Same. I can't get a single one with good ivs! I've gotten like 13 too.
It's somewhat ironic how well Est fits into the Est Archetype in Heroes. Her base skills and starting weapon are all garbage (though the introduction of the Armorsmasher makes her somewhat more useful), her statline's generally pretty good at Level 40, but she can turn into a monster if you're willing to dump way too many resources into making her good.
I'm not sure if that was intentional on the developers' parts or not. I suppose it doesn't matter. Either way it's brilliant.
Triad Orion i hope it was intentional cuz my five star Brave Lance + Death Blow + Def Ploy flier emblem Est is a BEAST.
Glad you made Sera look the best out of the bunch. Best girl
Yeah she gud
Any chance of going over Camus, Ishtar, Michalis, Hardin, or Catria archetype?
Keyblademaster333 catria isn't really an archetype, considering the whitewings are the full archetype themselves. Middle sister, sure. But in most games, this doesn't even apply, not to meantion they all have different personalities. Just.... just thought I'd drop my 2 cents in. Also, hang on. Isn't ishtar a part of thr camus archetype as well?
Lord Tullus 9 [Puffy Sprinkles] Catria is considered a character archetype for the "loves the lord but cant get with him." As for Ishtar, I know a lot of people say she's just a camus but I'd argue shes her own unique archetype for "female generals/warriors fighting like a Camus but usually for love."
I'd love a video over the Camus archetype and Minerva archetype
Of course Ryan, just a matter of time!
is michalis and hardin not the same? or it is well intentioned leader manipulated by evil vs good leader possessed by evil?
The thing about Nino is that the special chapter IMMEDIATELY after you recruit her is really good for leveling her up because of all the low-res wyvern rider enemies. All you have to do is let a bulky character block them, injure them, and BAM! Nino kills them and levels up. It's beautiful XD
...am I the only one that remembers that?
Can’t those wyverns also one shot her and they come in packs of like three?
I missed out on recruiting Catria and Palla, so Est was my only pegapony sister on Celica's route and she killed EVERYTHING after a few level ups. I'm a level-grinder, so sharing experience on main story maps wasn't a concern, and I'm willing to do some mild babying in dungeon battles just to get a character to power up.
For me part of the enjoyment is grinding up those low level characters and watch them become monsters. We've all had those characters we love that we grinded in the arena over and over again to make them viable.
Sara's arguably the best Est in FE. In a game where Staves are broken she has it in B Rank, can level up really fast and with a Blaggi scroll, just turns into a dodge tanker once Miracle procs. That said, she's tinfoil paper for defenses
I think Tormod in FE9 fits as an Est as well. Nino is definitely my favourite Est, I remember her being so fragile when I got her, but after putting all that effort, she became a killing machine
I never realized how much effort you need to put into making an 'Est' essential to your team (Now that I'm replaying the game). When I played FE15 for the first time, I just remember her being the less reliable out of the three pegasus sisters, but apparently I accidentally made her good. I just threw her into battle a lot for her to get better and it paid off without me realizing it. I even used her in the post game grima dungeon.
Definitely been more of a Jagen user than an Est user: Unless an Est character is someone I really like, they always warm the bench for me. Also agreed that neither Donnel nor Mozu are Est archetypes because they can come so early into the game.
Ests are the bests!
Rezzy more like ests are pests amirite
+Infinite pasta
A dead Est gives you 30 EXP.
One thing you didn't mention about Delthea in Echoes is that stellar Res stat she has. I recall throwing Delthea at base into a pack of witches, because I'm pretty sure she has the best base Res in the game. For being an Est, I think she is definitely one of the best in the category.
Bases > Growths.
Relying on good growths is a Fire Emblem pitfall.
Edit: Any unit can be good if you're going to invest that much time into it as much as an Est.
ViewtifulBeau Yeah, I hate it when someone says “I trained this person from random battles over and over, therefore, they’re the best unit in the game!!”.
Logan's Login Literally every casual who uses Nino lol.
ViewtifulBeau Can you really call it a pitfall when games like Echoes and Awakening expect you to train them up and outright give you the opportunities to train them in a setting not detrimental to the rest of your team? With characters in older games that is certainly true, but modern Fire Emblem doesn't follow Kaga's ideology on how the game should be played.
Mekkah... is that you?
ViewtifulBeau Enough with this crap! Yeah, its freaking true that bases>growths. But do we need to be told every single stinking time when most people just use whoever they want anyway?
Can you do a video on the archetype character that gets recruited on chapter 2 with base defense between 7 and 10 and has a personal connection to the main lord while also having an intimate relationship with another character that gets recruited within the last 5 chapters in the game and has a 35% speed growth accompanied by a base strength/magic below 12 who also has a younger sibling mentioned within that character's B support with another character? That archetype is my favorite
who?
which meme is this
Erhem... Are they fun to use? Use em then. Its a game have fun.
Good philosophy
As a Tower Grinding loser, General Amelia is hilarious. Tell me that seeing a Knight dodge almost everything isn't hilarious. Seriously, do it. You'll be lying
So Tire So Slep Honestly my favorite part of sacred stones is that everyone is viable and the tower gives me an excuse to use the units I don't use for the main campaign.
David Riley I'm honestly scared to play a Fire Emblem game without Skirmishes. All I know that I shouldn't do is use Jaegans, but as far as who is useful long term and needs the EXP more.......is have nothing
So Tire So Slep Actually most Jaegons are decent. Marcus of Fire Emblem 7 is almost as good as Seth I think. Its not too hard to manage experience in most of the grindless fire emblems, you just have to have a team in mind. (Though admittedly I struggle with exp in conquest. I am not good at that one.)
Catria(because thighs) > Palla > Est
Best Whitewing
Someone has their priorities straight.
Catria is the best in echoes, gameplay wise out of the fliers. Then clair, rhen palla, then est. Maybe faye, but why do that when youre not forced to? Anyway..... Catria is godly in Every game she's in.
Catria's armpits > Catria`s thighs though
Palla > Catria > Est
Talking about ests, time to celebrate Donny. Wait he's not one. Okay I want a video talking about trainee units. I really thought Donny and Ross were est unit. Learn something new everyday thanks.
donnel and ross join way too early to be considered ests (paralogue 1, where you can recruit donnel, is unlocked after chapter 3. ross is recruited in chapter 2). a little handholding and they can hold their own most of the game. they could be considered their own archetype if a few more examples are added though
very mad guy you're right, I just thought est units had low bases but great potential. I now know they have to be late game recruits.
+SharpFE Gamer
Trainees are Ests but better.
SharpFE Gamer
Ross joins very early on. Ross is my boss
There's really only one way to answer the question. "A case by case basis." If you already have a unit that does the job, you don't need to use these characters, but if you're late in the game, and you've had bad growths, or the other units that were available are long dead, then these units are exactly what you may need to keep going. So it could very well depend on the playthrough.
My favorite Est would be Nino. I train her to 20/5 only in the Water Temple gaiden chapter and then play her normally in later chapters.
You should cover the pegasus trio archetype as well
Isn't Ewan pronounced like Yoo-in?
Yep, realizing this now, especially since his name was Yuan in Japanese. I guess this is one of those names I didn't think about as having a semi-weird pronunciation. Just read it, remembered always thinking of it this way, and went with it. Whoops.
When I first played this game in high school I pronounced his name E - wan with a long E and short a. Yeah, names can be hard... This is why voiceacting can be the biggest savior in the universe!
Apparently, Guy in Fe7 is pronounced as 'Ghee'
Ewan is a Scottish name. Always find it weird when people pronounce it wrong. Just remember Ewan McGregor.
(Also I've never understood why people think Guy is pronounced Ghee because I know multiple people called Guy and it's just pronounced like the word guy. (gai kinda thing idk how to type pronunciations)
Zad Ras *_YEEE_*
Bring up the trainee archetypes next, it’s one of the easiest to spot, though I’m not sure how far back it goes
I enjoy using Ests. Generally I like their characters, and the satisfaction of turning units that people deem worthless into amazing units is worth all the pain (and there's a lot of pain).
+Sgneezen -
Nino is actually the MVP in the Chapter "Cog of Destiny" Map.
I used save states to train up Sophia in FE6. She’s actually quite good at getting rid of the bandits in her join chapter due to her movement in the desert.
But yea I still need to have given her some stat boost items to start her off because of her horrible bases.
I support her with Fae and she became really good a few chapters later so I’ll say that she’s a good example of an Est because she really needs the effort in order to shine.
I’ve also given her Apocalypse and she crit dragons with it so that’s fun.
My Delthea ended up being a beast! I’m so glad I trained her up! 34 attack at the end of the game, and she was doubling pretty much everything! Once I gave her the steel shield to balance her defense a bit, she was unstoppable! Best thing is, she wasn’t even over leveled! Maybe even a bit under leveled!
The other thing is, games like awakening or sacred stones which have monster encounters ease up the burden of ests. however games like blazing sword which have a strict chronology and you can at most accept side quests have less "total exp" available which makes leveling up an ests more of a risk and a challenge than the others.
An Archetype video on Trainee units like Ross and Mozu would be great
I just picked up est in echoes and I swear I need to drop her. It's like there's a secondary goal to the battles: keep est alive.
Well done video. I don't find est units useful personally but I do like putting the effort to training them up they're no means better units than ones you recruited but I find it fun training then up like my own personal project
Levelling up the super low level units and using them ubiquitously is my jam tbh. I always used Ewan and Nino.
Delthea was about on par with my Luthier at her recruitment, since I didn’t make any of my villagers into mages I pretty much had to use Delthea. She did solid damage off the bat and she far outshined her brother by the time she promoted.
My opinion is that Donnel turned up fairly early and probably fits into a sub category of Est Archetype similar to the Oifeys being a Sub-Category of the Jaegen Archetype.
Thanks to the addition of the star jacinth in echoes and its 30 percent to each growth rate, delthea has the potential to have a number of maximum stats, I feel she is incredibly potent
Est are my favorite archetypes yes they may be sub optimal but seeing that lvl 5 unit kick butt just a few chapters later is extremely satisfying
In the end, it depends if they join early enough, Tormod is an Est type in Path of Radiance, joins early and with some BEXP he can catch up to other mages in little time.
Est herself on the other hand is usually only worth using in Gaiden/Echoes due to many forced battles and being easy to negate damage via a leather or steel shield.
when they join early they're a trainee like ross.
trainees are the good versions of est
I really liked this video. Personally I didn't use Est in Echoes because I literally promoted all my units in Act II of Echoes. ALL of them. Celica maxed out her experience and I was already getting villagers out of promoted units. Since Echoes allowed me to grind endlessly, I did. By the time I got Est, I didn't bother training her. I also got Palla and Catria around the same time because I didn't know I had to head back to get them. Anyway, any new units I got like Sonya, Delthea, Nomah, and Mycen just had to pull their own weight. I'd use them for very specific tasks or not at all.
Just gonna leave this here:
Kurthnaga also has the advantage of being able to use both the Blossom skill to boost his growths and the Paragon skill to negate the reduced exp gain that Blossom forces a unit to have in order to get the increased growths.
Donnel is his own archetype. It is an optional recruitment near the beginning of the game that starts out super weak but have amazing growths. some characters in it are Donnel, Mozu, Faye and the echoes version of Kliff. It's the newest archetype.
Could you do a video on that archetype please?
They're trainees. Ross is also part of it. I prefer their real name though.
Good Ests.
Well when I got Delthea, I babied her in the chapter 3 shrine up to at least lv 11 before going into chapter 4. And it was really worth it, she's really good.
Also, I played Sophia in FE 6 and given time, she wrecks houses.
6:44 I didn't know where to get Est's sisters and had already promoted Est by the time I found them.
Elincia is just a straight badass.
Bad Cactus
Elincia X Ike?
The only Est I care about: Kurthnaga. In normal mode, he's absolutely useable, just give him the laguz gem first map and let him solo the right side of the map. If he needs more training for some reason, there are dragons he can train on later. By the final map, he'll pull his own.
HOW did you not mention Astrid for her first appearance in FE9? She's at LEAST as clear cut archetypally as Nino.
My favourite Est is FE6 Karel. He has the highest growths in the franchise and joins in the third-to-last chapter of the game.
The thing is, ests we're made when you were given inferior replacements for dead units in fe1. They were meant to be a gift to help you out if they were replacing a unit with a ton of investment
I wouldn't really consider Zeiss an Est.
Dude has 39 HP, 19 Strength, and 15 Defense at Level 7 unpromoted. Ridiculous.
Yeah, that's why he's sort of arguable. A lot of people do think he still is though, so I had to include him
Ests are great, partially because lower level = more level ups when grinding them up so their level is equal to all your other units which = higher stats in the long term, it's also pretty easy to grind them up, all you need to do in the earlier games is to abuse bosses with only 1 range weapons
I appreciate that you played devils advocate with a lot of the characters.
I try! Thanks for watching!
The thing about the Est archetype is that it's execution in the games tends to be flawed. Most of the time, their bases are just "too" poor for when you get them, so their growths won't be able to offset the difference unless the RNG is in your favour (e.g Nino). Or their in a class that makes their growths seem overkill like the Peg Knights with their low as shit Strength caps (e.g the original Est). Then there is things like weapon ranks, which take much longer to grind out. Maybe if Est type characters came with a way to turbo out their weapon ranks faster, it would make their payoff more appealing. Or so that their class is more oriented towards lategame use. Or atleast a better balance between their join time and base stats...sub 10 stats (talking about the GBA games here) at the third act of the game is fucking horrifying to deal with unless you are a Manakete. Honestly the best versions of Est's that i saw was in hack roms. Project Ember did a kickass job with Sophia and the Mengs FE7 Rebalance did the same with Nino. And both of those versions came with their own flaws in execution.
Ember went overkill on modified growth rates and stat caps, to where you can get your major army capped out on 6-7 of your 8 stats. Staff ranks are easier to farm aswell. Yet the modified bases, growths and caps, not to mention easier to farm Staves, made Sophia shine even brighter. She has the highest Magic cap, a very high Speed/Resistence cap and will cap Luck most of the time. And has Dark affinity. So late game she becomes a dodge tank, massive glass cannon and a premier utility bot with the Apocalypse tome giving her the highEst Staff range in the game. She will die to a physical unit quickly, but only if she somehow manages to get hit, which isn't happening. She also stands out from her peers; Raigh joins with capped Magic in Maniac mode and will cap most of his stats as a unpromoted unit, but as a Druid, has a a much lower Speed cap, a much lower set of Luck bases/growths and has slightly less damage. On the other hand has Ice affinity and good deffensive caps, so he actually becomes a good drain tank with Nosferatu. NIime is irrelevant here, as even with her good bases, she only gets a single level up and not much else and at this point Sophia should be blowing Niime out the water.
Mengs took a more simple approach where he buffed Nino's base Magic/Skill/Speed/Luck/Resistence by an extra 4, while leaving her HP/Defense/Con stats untouched. And even then at that point in the game, if you don't reach her fast enough as a green unit, she will get killed by a Monk, even while having Triangle advantage. But training her did yield payoffs, since that version of Cog of Destiny in HHM is turbo filled with Valkiries/Bishops/Druids/Sages and you need magic walls to deal with the sheer number, so Nino ended a dodge tank that was also a magic tank and a glass cannon. At that point the only thing that was "slightly" scary was Luna Druids. Sadly her Staff rank was still hot garbage, but i mean, the extras on everything else made up for it. If anything the issue with that hack overall was he was too conservative in alot of areas.
Thought the video was great man. I agree with everything you said. Nino is my favorite Est, and probably the only one I really bothered using. Most of the time they're such a pain to use by the time you get them.
Pelleas is my dude. It helps he shows up in a chapter where he can blow up dragon units with thunder magic. I think one time he snuck into my top five units in terms of kills. I'll have to give Fiona second look. I think I usually give her Paragon to Edward, Nolan, Michiah, or Sothe though. This is the part where I leave the disclaimer of I in no way consider myself good at Fire Emblem.
How about Vika in Radiant Dawn? You get her back after Fiona and she has the best growths in the game, which is insane considering she's a laguz unit.
My take on ests is basically: I'll use them if they are good characters. More importantly, I'll especially use them if there's a post game or arena to bring them up
so not est
I have a love hate relationship with the Est archetype...
In my case it depends on 1 thing.
Is there a possibility for grinding?
If it's awakening, fates, or shadows of valentia I would put the effort into them if I like his/her interactions with the cast, style, class, looks, and so on.
If there's no such thing, Est becomes like a sponge, absorbing all XP while having more efficient ways to clean with less effort...
Especially in the end game, you don't only need every capable fighter but seriously leveling them up.
Don't think it comes as much of a surprise,
but used to call them the Sponge units, they drain the map from useful XP...
Kurthnaga is super easy to level, as the dragons in the endgame chapter don’t attack him even if he initiates, and he can be given the skill that gives him bonus damage on dragons
I personally like using Est because she's an extra flier for Celica's route and putting the sisters synergize them when they are together
Echoes atleast kinda fix the tedium to me. Delthea hits like a truck so and joins before a large amount of armors and near 2 dungeons. And est can be trained with triangle attack, skirmishes during act 3 etc.
I always end up using Est in the end over her sisters and cliar due to being much more powerful attack wise.
Yeah they're all definitely less bad in Echoes, Est in Echoes is still really worth it due to being on Celica's route and the bonus damage against terrors
I love using L'Arachel
She is work but you can promote her at level 10 and just get her to like level 10 or so as a promoted unit. She will pry be your best unit. Her luck is stupid good.
I was only able to use Sophia thanks to the Arena and Save States :)
That's probably the only way :(
Personally I love the Est characters, it's a fun challenge late game. They almost always tend to end up being beastly. Stat wise I wouldn't say the older units aren't really on-par, it's just weapon levels/supports are a thing, so usually an older unit will end up about par with equivalent investment.
I don't understand why people do all kinds of grueling challenges in FE games (speed runs/minimal turns, only using specific units), I don't know why Est characters get dismissed so much.
oncebluemoon It's actually fun to blaze through the game too at least for me sometimes but yeah it's also nice to train a zero to hero, both ways of playing have their merits.
They get dismissed though when we look at who is objectively better, we rate a unit like Marcus so high because he has very good bases that keep him useful throughout the whole game plus he has great mobility but we then penalise Nino because she joins underleveled with bad bases and has a role that two better units in Erk and Pent can do for much less of a cost.
I'm not familiar with the Est archetype, but as you pointed out Delthea, it made me a little more confused, I feel like Delthea didn't come too late (but I'm prob thinking too far), but my Delthea was an absolute monster spamming Seraphim with a mage ring... Murdered anything it touches...
She comes late in Chapter 3, perhaps not too late, but when you get her she's also pretty frail and weak and could use some babying to be brought up to speed. Her growths are also pretty solid. She may not be an Est, who can say for sure, but I saw a lot of discussions online with people considering her, and I sorta agreed, so I put her on the list. Your mileage may vary!
Honestly, Est in SoV is has a lot more potential as a unit as a) with the infinite respawns from the stupid cantors you can easily get exp with a good setup and b) you can typically deploy all your units so you need to make less decisions on whether to use characters.
Yeah Est in SOV shouldn't even be considered an Est. Falconknights are immensely useful with their effective damage to terrors alongside the fact that they are unaffected by the awful terrain throughout much of Celica's route. She's so useful It would actually be foolish to not use Est.
Miranda is really great (ik b route is bad and her bases are horrible)
but if you train her enough to promote she can solo chapter 22
I went into FE6 knowing full well how terrible Sophia was, and.... it was fun! I hoarded all of the stat boosting items I got and gave them to her when she joined. (Granted I had to abuse save states to keep her alive in her recruitment chapter... a lot...) But she was like my replacement lord for Roy after he maxed and it was fun haha.
For me, an Est is the embodiment of Guy Sensei's teachings. The power of youth has limitless potential!
I will always use Zeiss and almost never use his sister and then there's the other Est of FE6, Sophia. Love to use both of them so much. I also use Pelleas everytime, I just can't resist using the only dark magic user (not including Sephiran who despite being able to use it, never will) of RD
Technically you can give Sephiran blessed dark magic on the final chapter, but why would you, so I get your point.
Inefficient as Ests are, it's the ear candy of several lv ups in a row snowballing death from a smol unit
I have a hard time considering Delthea an Est archetype, because she is extremely easy to use and level up effectively when you get her (literally the next level she has armor knights to eat alive and mages to obliterate). Even if you don't put lots of extra time into training her, her excellent resistance, speed, and damage help her chew threw mages.
What's Lutes Archetype? Is it absurd Attack growths?
Seriously though what were they thinking I use every dracosheild on her and she is utterly broken
Linde.
Wait didnt you get Merric first? I thought Linde was the midgame subsitute mage
Est being pretty late is also a pretty non issue in gaiden and echoes due to being able to deploy every unit in non dungeon battles until Alm and Celica’s teams merge
So you don’t have to bench someone to use Est
If Est in Echoes is an Est, why isn't Sonya? Both join at the same time (which I consider to be in the first half of the game, not late at all, albeit further into the second quarter than higher-level Palla and Catria's recruitment), and at the same level (effectively: Sonya's 5 and Est's 3 are each 9 short of their promotion targets).
And at the corresponding point on Alm's route, we have Mathilda, also a glass unit (compared to Clive as he should be by then), 9 levels away from her top tier class promotion, with great potential (especially with gold-knight-promotion stat boosts where she needs them most).
Fire Emblem: Shadow of Valentia be like:
“Since you are debating so much over what characters are worth using, I’ll give you the ability to play with all of them during each story map until we get to the end boss.
Delphia is the best Est (in my opinion) and it's mostly because her brother is so awful at magic
CarbonHalberd yep she decimates any of the faithful and her bases are also pretty good. Also who takes on dreadfighters with a mage anyway?
Luthier ain't that bad if you train him properly. Mine turned out pretty good 32 tec at lv 3 Sage. He also has excalivar -hopefully i spelled it right- so he can get more crits. He's not as bad as people make him out to be, seems like it because people always compare him to his sister. Give him a chance.
I tried Luthier out before even knowing about Delphia but it feels like he takes waaaaay too much effort to be an average unit.
In FERD you can train kuthanaga by making him kill al the dragons since they won't attack back.