Mindscape 73 | Grimes (c) on Music, Creativity, and Digital Personae
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Blog post with audio player, show notes, and transcript: www.prepostero...
Patreon: / seanmcarroll
Changing technologies have always affected how we produce and enjoy art, and music might be the most obvious example. Radio and recordings made it easy for professional music to be widely disseminated, but created a barrier to its creation. Nowadays computers are helping to reverse that trend, allowing casual users to create slick songs of their own. Not everyone is equally good at it, however; Grimes (who currently goes by c, the symbol for the speed of light) is a wildly successful electronic artist who writes, produces, performs, and sings her own songs. We dig into how music is made in the modern world, but also go well beyond that, into artificial intelligence and the nature of digital/virtual/online personae. We talk about the birth of a new digital avatar - who might be called “War Nymph”? - and how to navigate the boundaries of art, technology, fashion, and culture. Her new album Miss Anthropocene has just been released.
Grimes, or c, studied neuroscience at McGill University before turning full-time to music. Her previous albums include Geidi Primes, Halfaxa, Visions, and Art Angels. Her latest album, Miss Anthropocene, channels the goddess of climate change. On December 5th in Miami, she will be orchestrating the one-night-only rave Bio-Haque. Emma Garland at Vice named her the Artist of the Decade.
Of all the things I like, I never expected these two would intersect.
They both know Elon musk, maybe? 🤔
I think the mind of a theoretical physicist and an eccentric psychedelic artist and musician lie in close proximity to eachother on the spectrum. It wouldn't surprise me if Sean does some of his best thinking while listening to some moody chill trance.
The simulator(s) must be fucking with me bringing these two completely unrelated things I enjoy together like this
@cuallito Musk studied physics but isn't a physicist
Grimes: we're at the death of art
Also Grimes 30minutes later: we're at the best, most creative period of art
I thought they discussed the death of human art... Emphasis on human... And in an era where art has access to the internet and all available resources we can see the last, best art
The way she speaks is so lively that I can imagine her face literally :D
I can't help but think that her idea that AGI will make artists "obsolete" betrays part of what motivates her as a musician. I don't doubt that an algorithm would be able to generate a song whose goal would be to get the maximum amount of "plays", but that's not what motivates most artists, amateur or professional. We make music because it's meaningful *to us* as creative beings, because it allows us to express ourselves and collaborate with others creatively, and because it's just fun.
If your goal is only to get most top-40 hits, then yeah, you might be out of luck, but artists aren't going anywhere.
The principal goal of an entertainer is to entertain, and ideally get paid for the effort. Art is incidental.
Yeah it is very odd when I hear artists, specially ones as accomplished as her, parrot the line "in just a few years from now the best art will be AI generated" might as well quit right here and now then!
lol at grimes thinking no one heard of geidi primes or halfaxa xD
they're pretty much my faves, I listen to them everyday bruhhh
& I'm sure a lot of old grimes listeners would say the same :P
The ravings of a madman? more like a badass witch tbh
joel madken yes
joel madken 👍🏻I think Sagrad is my favourite ever song
@@boosh1967 yes
halfaxa is an amazing album, will always be one of my favourites of all time
I wonder if she knows that the Halfaxa album has over a million views? It is so great, like spirituality on acid
LOVE this I'm obsessed with Grimes at the moment lol!! Her music is just so refreshing compared to what they usually play on the radio
Grimes: "ill stop talking"
Sean: "okay"
ME: lol
Yeah. Aw.
I wondered how in the hell her and musk where able to converse. I see now...
And why hasnt she been on Rogan yet?
Ew fuck Joe Rogan he's a dumbass
@@in2thether Actually, Rogan is pretty bright. Your negativity is disheartening.
They converged intellectually on Twitter first I think.
@@in2thether Sean has been on Rogan
@@in2thether most people are
I really enjoyed this episode. Her personality and energy is fantastic. From now on I'll pay more close attention to Grimes (before I've listened to it only casually).
After all the focussed discussions with scientists and academics, it's quite good fun to hear the chaotic, semi-random musings of an artist. Usually i listen to wind down in the evening but this was one for full awakeness. Really enjoyed it anyway, Grimes seems really cool, i've never checked out her music before but i certainly will after this.
Great episode! She is an amazing talent. Her “genesis” song is one of my favorite songs of all time. Kind of incredible how easily music came to her. Sean Carroll also mentioned in his first episode that it would be nice to have Lady Gaga on his podcast, but this was better!
This was great! Great mix of energy and insight!
This might be one of my favorite Mindscape episodes. Loved Adam Rutherford and Scott Derrickson.
This is awesome! I've been following Sean Carroll for a while now and always enjoyed his stuff.
But....I'm a *_huge_* Grimes fan. She's easily the most interesting intelligent creative musical artist of the moment....imo.
So yeah, this is excellent. But I so wish this was recorded on video. Claire is so visual in how she moves and communicates. And I want to see that...
But, no matter.... This is still a wonderful hour of conversation. Love it!
GRIMES SPEAKING FOR AN ENTIRE HOUR?!?!?! OMG
We appreciate power!
It's funny that she feels no one knows halfaxa. It's her best album and I think that most of her serious fans agree.
Great interview!
i love love LOVE grimes 😭 she's so cool
Okay. I am in shock! 🧚♀️
When it comes to the art of Electronic Experimental Pop music, Grimes is one of the artists whose music I gravitate towards. Placing Grimes into an interview and a discussion setting with a loved theoretical physicist pretty much leads to what I may call nirvana, "a state of perfect happiness". Cannot wait to return from my flu shot appointment and to go for a much needed long walk with this as my podcast companion.
💞🎶🎧
lol....you pretty much summed up my exact same reaction upon seeing this video.
haven't hit play yet....but cannot wait!
"Electronic Experimental Pop music" Not sure about experimental part.
Dune was one of my favorite books ever so really I loved Grimes Geidi Primes album!
Derek Lawrey do you think she'll train her child the Bene Gesserit way?
Jessica Long No. I imagine more like a fremen. 😬
It's cool to have her in this podcast. It be cool to see Ghostemane talk to Sean
Listening to Grimes, thought I had the playback speed accelerated.
Imagine a convo between Grimes and Ben SHapiro, probably disagreeing and speaking on top of each other
Thanks Sean. Love your podcast.
Thank you, Sean.
tf? I was just listening to grimes lol
same here, was listening to grimes when I got the notification for this video, clicked it and my brain almost exploded.
Sean, you are a kind , patient man.
love her and love this!!!!
LOVE this podcast. Thanks so much!
I like how he calls our reality "Meat Space"
THE GREATEST CROSSOVER OF ALL TIME
This is now the best podcast on youtube
To imply that just because better performance can be found elsewhere one should no longer bother is to miss the point of life entirely
Well the point of life is subjective so...
Oh my god this is amazing. I honestly didn’t think he could top Seth McFarlane as a guest, but he totally did
When I grow up I want to be on the mindscape podcast😅
I think Grimes might be my patronus.
I love this episode sean, to paraphrase woody allen.. She is like an out of control taxicab with the engine floored and aiming straight towards her audience.. kinda breathtaking.
@Grimes makes experimental music.
@Ge Wang makes experimental instruments.
@Sean Carroll, introduce these two, so they can collaborate!
Maybe, have them on together for a future podcast.
That was unexpected.
Very unexpected and yet very refreshing. I really like your podcast Sean and C, I really like your music too... ;)
Hey Claire, your early music is special, and lyrics are not important ;) voice is just another instrument
Sean on a massive roll recently omg so good
Strange how many people loved this episode... I mean, i came to this CZcams channel to learn about cosmology and particle physics. If i wanted to listen to a music podcast I would search for it.
You should tell Sean that so he can tailor his guests to you personally. Lol
Not strange at all. This podcast has never been only about cosmology and physics.
This is off the chain, Sean. Your street cred is gonna be sky-high. And, I had no idea the Ms. C was so articulate and bright and thoughtful and insightful, if weird in a delightful way. I do think that she should back off on the caffeine, however. She might have real trouble taking any curves that come along. Other than that, kuddos to you both! JT
For the record, halfaxa and geidi primes are my two favourite albums hahaha
I love the insane ravings of a madman
Took me 40 minutes to realize that the album title wasn't "misanthropocene."
It is tho lol
@@BlaisexBlaise it's Miss Anthropocene
WHAT NO WAY
more like Sean Carroll's Mind Blown!
Hey I just want to say thanks for talking to everyone. I also have a question about the spin of an electron. If you were to continually measure the vertical spin and then measure the horizontal spin what would happen?
imma need part 2 and part 3 plz mate mmk.
It's a shame the podcast didn't run on longer... at 1:09:00 I feel like they just started to find a conversational groove. Also, I would love for them to talk about Grimes' theory that the speed of light is the render rate of a simulated universe.
I love her so much.
she’s not just elon musk’s girlfriend she’s always been super into physics and the universe and techbology!! that’s why they were a match in the first place :p duh
It’s not edgy, it’s not cool it’s not darq LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO
Grimes😃
We appreciate power.
im a bit mixed for her recent stuff but Art Angel is a very good album, I still like that one
Not feeling this one, but I'm glad you did it. Thanks for bringing me something I wouldn't seek out on my own.
I adore Grimes....but I appreciate your honest comment. And your willingness to give it a chance at the very least. :)
Also a huge Grimes fan who loved this interview, but this comment was probably the most heartwarming. Thanks for being a cool internet person. This podcast has such a cool community; so glad I just found it.
God, I felt sadder when Grimes had so much backlashes, and now we have that she said the live music is obsolete like gosh... I hate when the media gets blame on her.
Since you got Grimes on any chance of getting Musk on too?
Miami!
her mind
Skip to 6:52
its almost like people nowadays speak as if their mouths can't move fast enough for their minds, for instance she frequently starts sentences then just starts talking about a consequence without finishing the first statement. we await the tech-human hybridization revolution!!!
yeah we're all hooked on information
@@ili626 I wish her well, it's insane how much backlash this totally innocent podcast has had.
omgggg yes
Can we get Mr Krasznahorkay on to discuss the new x17 ? The particle that might be connecting to dark matter
Wow! I listened to the whole thing as I want to be open minded but it was torture. Maybe I’m getting old😳
This is going to be entertaining!
Seriously, C just can you make your own podcast and just talk all the time. Your ideas are wild and so freeing...this is gold. Had to pause just so I could process for a bit. Love the thought that we are free to be who ever we want online, and that there, we are a separate entity. I do disagree with your opinion on art. AI will never be able to surpass our human mind. As a creative, I have more ideas than I know what to do with, and sorry, a robot can't do better. Do I even need to say I would say the same for you?
Welcome to the Internet.
I think there is a level where if you make a super ai with no built in motivations I cannot see it doing anything, it may be content on simply doing as humans want.
Trying not to be so attached to Grimes' art Angel's personas because I know they're all gone but I love them D:
50:30 Funny how Grimes thinks we're going to buy $2 virtual dresses instead of designing them ourselves
I LOVE C so much
53:50 interesting how she thinks our selves are separate online and off. I'm in the Sean camp of being consistent in both realms.
To look at what art will do for us in the future we first must look what it did for us in the past. Initially we thought that art came after “civilisation” due to the amount of time we freed up from not having to surviving, however there is now a great deal of evidence that in fact perhaps art precipitated civilisation. Symbolism and art bonded us together, and couple that with religion it was a powerful tool for bringing people together and having common believes, (Read “Homo Sapiens” for more on this idea). So art brings people together - that’s true of the past - and if you think about the present you can see common interests bring different groups of people together. Now if AI was to start making art- would that bring people together - I guess it’s down to the motivation it is programmed with. If AI was given the goal to “sell more records” or even “spread a common political believe”, well it could quite easily use art to manipulate people. Then again is this different to what currently happens? We already know quite a lot about what makes people happy, what makes people subdued, what distracts us from what is really going on in the world.
Hi Gemma, currently there are tools that make art creation easier and more accessible to plenty more people based on trained models (machine learning)... Here are some good examples: czcams.com/video/2n9e3UVqBH0/video.html
My suggestion is to see _AI_ as a set of tools that facilitate and speedup well-defined goals rather than a single entity where broad goals such as "sell more" or "change people's minds" are defined and a human would just have to press a start button.
Grimes in interviews is hard to listen to, or even read, because of her extremely high ratio of sentences started to sentences finished. But Sean's smooth, organized delivery helped a lot with that. I really like Art Angels and parts of Visions and even We Appreciate Power but I'm expecting not to like the new album based on the last 2 videos.
love Grimes as an artist and Sean is an expert in his field, but when it comes to mind, identity and A.I. they are mere laymen (no offense!) so it's hard to listen to. A.I (or computers) don't have propositional attitudes. no moral agents, not even agents because they lack beliefs or desires (Sean brought this up when mentioning motivation), no sense of identity no introspection, it cannot feel sad after a breakup, etc or reflect on its day and render a value judgment. it's just input and output. Grimes is ignorant on the topic and literature in the field or trolling.
She talks in the same way as Elon Musk.....I wonder if he's been sharing his nootropics with her!
intelligence explosion
Meh, not really.
It's "Digital Audio Workstation", not "Digital Audio Workspace"!
Workstation... workspace... awfully pedantic argument if you ask me.
@@Bird-of-prey Trust me, for a music producer that's cringworthy to hear, like a physicist saying gravitation warps when they mean gravitational waves.......shows a basic lack of knowledge.......so i'd suggest to any non-musos listening, take this interview with a large teaspoon of salt...
Well I lost all interest in the interview once ideas of "artistic death" were being thrown around. I can see where you're coming from, though.
@@Bird-of-prey a couple more things that made me turn off after ten minutes.......... when she said her music had no style, i had to laugh.......... and then when Sean was explaining about the memory castles podcast and she said "yeah yeah yeah yeah" before he'd actually got to the part of the sentence where she could have known what he was talking about.......
@@Dazzer1234567 You guys are so pretentious. It's kind of disgusting.
...ah! Looking forward to this episode. I probably should keep my mouth shut, but to me it is a bit comic. Around 5:00 minutts and my musician-head got a bit surpriced. She's, not only got her self speeding up, but Sean Carrol too. (Haha! A tru front girl. Taking the lead.) She sounds very nice, so gonna check out her music and I only heard a couple of minutts here, so didn't mean to troll. I guess It is a bitt stressfull talking on a podcast like this, because I'm pretty sure she spent alot of houers working on "time". I know the feeling and don't mean to put her down or anything. It was just a bit funny ...and I think it is the first time ever I hear Sean speed up, like this. Haha! Now I need to check out her music, but don't know what to do first. This podcast or her music...? ..Life is hard sometimes. And again. I'm pretty sure she is a greate artis and she definitly got very good vibes. Hope this came out as a ok, nice comment even if it was spontanius and saw a comic thing.
Next up: Allegaeon - All Hail Science! czcams.com/video/ONPMWHP8AZ4/video.html
Please host Donald Hoffman!
Mozart? Rlly? Never... in another realm.
You completely missed her point my dude.
Not only did you miss the point entirely, you also decided to act like a pretentious asshole when it was not necessary
Say what you want about Grimes, there’s no denying that she’s a musical genius.
Say what I want?
I say she is indeed a musical genius. A creative genius in general.
She's one of a handful of people on this planet who I'm genuinely appreciative that they even exist...
definitely not a musical genius. decent singer and creative lyricist, but "musical genius" is way off. Electronic music platforms like Ableton make it ludicrously easy for anyone to compose
Lol
@@ili626 Lol
on the surface, she sounds like an epik lol omg teenager. but she actually has some depth of thought and knowledge. that's good, because these types of interviews that intersect science with pop culture always have a chance of turning into a neil degrasse tyson/katy perry startalk episode. what a nightmare.
Can you quote a part that shows depth rather than just sounds like epik lol omg teenager?
@@amazingatheist4751 the depth is relative, of course. did you notice the explicit comparison i made to the katy perry podcast? the depth of claire is much better than that of katy "is math related to science?" perry.
Esports needs to be more character creative
yeah yeah yeah boomer
Lazy and rude
Elon Musk is speaking through Grimes via neuralink here. Only a matter of time before she begins advertising Tesla self driving packages on podcasts
Zeb is rather buy miss anthropocene merch instead of Tesla cars
Interesting... She definitely is not "post style"... Would have been better to have Aphex Twin on.
I like her as an artist but she makes me anxious when she speaks.
She’s kind of annoying to hear.. she interrupts waaay too much.
be my friend lol
Listen for 15 minutes and almost cut my veins... the worst Podcast ever !!! Why Sean ?! why ?!
What fuck are you?!
Yeah, I found it a bit annoying too
She seems more nervous in the beginning. It gets better after that.
@@d-5037 yeah the coke wore off
Ct
Let's say one values Sean Carroll in general but doesn't care for this particular episode. If I give it a thumbs down would CZcams bring less Sean Carroll and physics related content into my stream I wonder - which is not what I want. The thumbs down in this case simply means - Sean, I enjoy your channel but not this particular episode. I'm part of your viewing audience who is interested in the leading edge of physics. I don't know if the CZcams algorithm is that sophisticated or if Sean Carroll would care much either, but to the AI these two are discussing, I would like you to know my interests and bring me more physics and less commentary with phrases that include dark, edgy and white appropriation. Grimes : There is a reason Sean's other guests do not say the word like continuously. Soon we may have AI that can filter out the word like and summarize the main points. I do recognize there are others with different preferences. I do wonder why a man with Mr. Carroll's scientific intellect would move this direction. Perhaps he is motivated by achieving more wide appeal. I can understand that society drives ambitious talented people to desire this kind of recognition. Still, I wonder about the impact to our world if top scientists become so enamored with these types of urges. Finally, I'm wondering now about the historical intersection of top scientists and pop culture celebrities. Perhaps there is some kind of useful cross fertilization. I'm going to have to think more about this.
Or maybe he's just motivated to talk to a creative, interesting artist? Doesn't seem so outlandish to me. He talks to a variety of people from different fields and has spoken many times about his desire to have interesting conversations that aren't limited to one discipline or another. He created this podcast to have an opportunity to discuss things outside the realms of science (he has explained this in other podcasts, e.g. JRE).
Sub :(
You lost me on this one.... That music made me cringe so hard i yelled out at work and got stank eyed by my customer... This is a hard pass i couldn't figure out were this was headed.
Look out everyone, she says like a lot. Lol. Still rad. She’s young.
Look out everyone, this guys a fucking pretentious asshole. She's not that young either.
She’s in her thirties lmao
Mozart? Um....well, guess that's aiming high. Anyway, good for expanding the audience, but pass 4 me.
You completely missed her point my dude.
No matter how many avatars she create, nobody will remember her in 50 years, because (like Witold Lutoslawski once said) novelty wears off at the soonest. Just another mediocre artist.
I understand what you mean, but this must be used with caveats. All art (including style and genres) begin as novelty
@@raresmircea But if you don't offer nothing but novelty your art wont last long.
From what I've heard she want to foresee what will be the "next thing" and make a name out it.
sialababamak537 Like i said: caveats. So, i agree with your first proposition
As for Grimes, i don’t have any option. There is a song though that i like very much, makes me feel in a good way :)
You're already forgotten, asshole.
rares mircea “All art” does not always begin as novelty. Novelty does not equate to art - neither is art contingent upon novelty. To stand the test of time a piece of art need not simply be novel, different, temporarily trendy, or radical. These are not the standards of universality. He’s right - her work will most likely be forgotten after its time. It doesn’t mean it didn’t have artistic merit however.