Why Ukraine GPS Guided Bombs Are Failing?
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- čas přidán 24. 05. 2023
- The JDAM bombs are prepared for deployment on planes in the same way as other bombs. Once the plane is airborne, the pilot can input the GPS coordinates of a ground target into the JDAM's computer system. The plane will typically climb to a high altitude to enable the bomb to glide farther to the target, and then release the JDAM. The bomb will then head straight for the specified coordinates, using its fins to make adjustments to its course as it falls through the air, and usually striking within 15 feet of the target. However, this accuracy is not guaranteed when using JDAMs in Ukraine.
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I think these weapons demonstrated their effectiveness agains adversary who were outmathced by the western armies and who had almoast no capabilities to respond. When tested against a similar powerful adversary, their problems were revealed
vrey treu
No, these issues demonstrated that hot wiring jdams to planes they were not designed to interface with and used in engagement windows they weren't designed to operate in yeilds sub optimal results.
Flying high, with ew superiority, designating targets from the cockpit and updating the location via link16 in real time is how these weapons perform best. The issues with harms in ukraine are for similar reasons. Nato standard planes with decent ew pods will correct this operational shortfall.
similar powerfull adversary and russia are two words that rarely combine. as the fact that the truck that american trucks saved the soviet union shows.
I think part of the issue is that these JDAMs use the same tech as the GMLRS rockets from HIMARS, which the Russians learned to jam in the same way. Same vulnerabilities between the two weapons, same solution from the Russian POV.
@@flyinggoat2581 gps jamming has fairly limited range, which is why a lot of the gmlrs are still getting through. Also, jdms from a western plane can and do use inertial guidance when used in ew environments.
This was mentioned the very first time I read about JDAM, years ago. It's just a cheap alternative for the places where you can get away with it.
I have no clue how anyone thought Ukraine was such a place as it was well known that Syria, during the time Russia was supporting Assad, was the most heavily jammed place on earth. Something even the crews of electronic warfare planes were complaining about.
jdam can be used without gps at all, it was designed to fight russia with their jamming capabilities being already known after all
@@hphp31416 Yes, they can use inertial navigation. The problem is that GPS needs to give precise coordinates when inertial navigation is activated. If at that time GPS was jammed then inertial navigation will guide it to the wrong coordinates.
What a lot of people forget is the silent electronic warfare occurring. First, Russia jams guidance, then US/UA updates software to counter jamming, and Russia figures out how to jam again. Electronic warfare is not set it and forget it. That's why we see a few days between HIMARS strikes in Ukraine and the US developing open architecture software to make updates easier and quicker.
Also, remember that Russia likes to exaggerate its capabilities. For example, they loudly advertise how they are jamming guided missiles to convince people things like HIMARS is ineffective. The US happily acknowledges the jamming, but we quickly see another successful HIMARS strike a few days later - the US soft-spoken/big stick approach. Electronic warfare is like any battlefield. There is an ebb and flow, and windows of opportunity can be established to still use GPS guidance to successfully strike high-valued targets.
@@StrawHat83 I was an electronics tech in the RAN. There is always counter, counter, counter etc, ad infinitum with EW.
@@bossdog1480 That's what they need then, an ad infinitum.
Thank you for the objective reporting - largely missing in this war in mainstream media.
compare with Russian jets bomb their own cities, it is a huge success
thank me later
MIC fan boy?
This is a level of honesty that I usually don't expect of Americans. Actual self-criticism, looking for where they went wrong and looking for a way to improve. They had lost this a time ago. 👏👏
And the guys in the comments are actually developing theories and possible weak points.
I think it's a Russian channel. The name is in Russian: "Военное телевидение" (Military TV).
Difficulty: American < Difficulty: Asian
Its a Russian Govt funded channel....
@@KoteiHvostinin Thanks for the clarification
Jamming isn’t the problem. JDAM, GMLRS, Storm Shadow, etc all have GPS and inertial guidance. If they lose the GPS they switch to the inertial. It’s not as accurate but it will still get the weapon close to the target. The real problem here is GPS spoofing so that the weapons think they are somewhere else and don’t switch over to inertial.
Huh. I would think GPS signals would have cryptographic signatures.
Is there a way to switch to inertial only? If this isn’t the case, I imagine there will be a team of coders at Raytheon working on this as we speak.
Military GPS cannot be spoofed as it is encrypted.
Your absolutely right👍But the and WE also Not realy with spoofong your 100% right but there in that Problem and I think so they isolate spoofing,they find the Problem before😉
So, after looking it up, there are encrypted GPS signals, which should be immune to spoofing.
So I suspect the video is right - the problem is the jamming, not spoofing.
Oh, really? GPS signals are being jammed on the battle field? Who coulf have possibly seen that coming?
Lol 😅
nobody because they thought that the Russians were totally incompetent, backward and only had outdated weapons
Especially after the Russian jet disabled a US Navy ships systems years ago. 😳😁
@@thinkforyourself1547 That story about a US Navy destroyer having its electronics disabled was entirely fiction. The Arleigh Burke class USS Donald Cook was unaffected by the claimed electronic warfare system.
As for GPS signals, they are extremely weak. They are already well under the noise floor, and require clever receivers to receive them at all. You might expect that the weak signal makes the signal easy to jam, but the receiver technology already has to deal with lots of noise. It's equivalent to hearing a mouse squeak at a rock concert. You can do it only by knowing exactly when the mouse might squeak, and repeatedly looking for a slight increase in signal at exactly those times compared to the surrounding times and frequencies.
To jam effectively over a wide area requires matching the potential pattern of the transmitting satellites, and transmitting competing signals in a way to disturbs the error correcting. The Russians seem to have developed a system to do this, at least for single antenna receivers that don't discriminate signals from the 'wrong' direction.
@@1djbecker Yes I'm sure that the US Navy & Department Of Defence would tell us all if the Russians had ANY negative effect at all on their electronics etc., . . .
OH . . .and Ukraine is winning the war & Russia ran out of shells & missles in March last year and the USA had nothing to do with Gain Of Function research at the Wuhan lab, and the USA never blew up Nord Stream (it was the Russians) . . . Oh . . . here's a great one . . . IRAQ had WMD's 🤦♂🤦😂🤣
I remember discussing with someone on SM about TopGun Maverick, on how it was a forced situation to create an action sequence. I had mentioned that the situation, though tailor made for the exact movie sequence to happen, wasn't ridiculous. This video confirms it.
The guidance package is supposed to automatically switch to the Inertial Guidance System, when the GPS is lost. The IGS is constantly updated while the GPS is working. So, even when GPS is lost, the IGS will still maintain acceptable accuracy. The malfunction must be more basic than just the loss of the GPS.
but they're missing their target
Korean technology
"The guidance package is supposed to automatically switch to the Inertial Guidance System, when the GPS is lost" is correct but if satellite signals are counterfeit the guidance don't switch. it simply recalculates its location based on the false signals it receives. To falsify a signal you have to transmit the false information on the same frequencies used by the satellites but with much higher power than the original one in order to make the original signal invisible. The original signal being at a much lower strength becomes part of the background noise and the gps guidance system follows the new falsified information. Add a low-flying launch and other complications...kit GPS wasted!
It works only if you have GPS signal at the point of launch, otherwise there is no location for the system to refer to
According to IAF
Bomb does not lose GPS signal. A Russian electronic warfare station pretends to be a satellite and sends false data. The bomb loses orientation, but not the signal.
„Krasukha“ rus for Belladonna nightshade, a delirium where you lose touch with reality when ingested
I think the issues are a combination of everything you mentioned. Especially the part about Ukranian aircraft flying too low to the ground for the bombs to be employed effectively.
I think that may be part of it too. Oviously the j dam bombs aren't effective enough at this point.
@@paulzink2492 The arrows (the JDAMs) themselves aren't the problem. It's that the archers (the Ukranian fighter jets) can't get high enough to employ them the way they are meant to be due to the threat of Russian air defenses. Due to its small size, the UAF can't afford to tank aircraft losses.
@@Stinger522 not only that, Russia mastered jamming of GPS guidance and smart munitions like JDAM and HIMARS making them miss the target more and more often due to lack of accuracy in inertial guidance
@ "Especially the part about Ukranian aircraft flying too low to the ground for the bombs to be employed effectively.": _ _ That's of course nonsense - as Ukrainian soldiers are not stupid!
@@JohnStoneman100 they are not and that is the reason for them to be flying low…
So i have no clue how any of this really works.
Are signal/frequency jammers areal or directional? (i would assume the former, but sometimes it sounds like it would be directional when talked about jamming a certain plane or ship)
Do they usually jam just one specific frequency, a spectrum of frequencies or just any and all or would they leave out one so their own gear still could communicate on that one?
Are there alternative ways these 'not so much anymore' guided weapons could to instead of GPS, like it was programmed before in and before the jammed area was encountered data for orientation was given and due to how fast and direction the plain goes, a computer still could keep track in an coordinat system overlay?
Everything has strengths and weakness.
I think it is very simple. The aircrafts navigation system is jammed. This is used to initialize the JDAM. The missile will then be way of in the beginning and has not enough time to correct that initial errorm
Now that is what I call simple out of the box thinking!
So basically, long story short, you don't know if they are working or aren't working.
And if they aren't working, you don't know why they aren't working.
Also, you have no idea if whatever is not working, can be fixed.
So the best thing to do is send more bombs to ukraine
they are failed bomb
I got more out of your comment than this total BS video.
Yes ,Basically the US Woke Feminists Army is Going down . They cant Even Recruit anymore . Americans are too fat too . Its bad ! Go ask George Soros and Hillary for help ! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My first question would be, "what recent reports?" I can confirm that Russians do jam GPS. We were in the process of mapping for a Ukrainian archaeological project using GPS, and a ground station for post-processing. Certain areas around the project could not be mapped using GPS at all. The result was that we had to employ a total station and blend the data in a desktop mapping program. Even with the base station, correcting the GPS data was unusable in certain parts of the project area.
1:24 - you forgot one component, arguably most important: INS. Internal Navigation System that can't be jammed and supplements GPS with far more frequent readings that GPS can provide. There are also datalinks and on some variants, terminal cheap laser guidance. Also Jamming (effectively blinding through noise, denying access to signal) is very different than spoofing (sending slightly altered, faked signal). Also: remember, that US has 'geofenced' some provided weapons to restrict them to Ukrainian territory and such patch might have adverse effect.
Has anyone given thought of piggybacking the GLONASS system as a backup for the GPS? Or even the PRC GPS system? I'm just asking since even my Android cellphone can use GPS, or GLONASS, or other Global Positioning System networks for navigation. I would think it would be a prudent failsafe...
It may work for a little while,
the GLONASS is encrypted and you cannot use it, its a closed system unlike the open GPS. the reason they Ukriane planes are flight low is because if they get spoted Russian AA will destroy them from far far away. So it creates a situation where they do not allow the INS to work as intended
Glonass helps GPS with better triangulation for all devices. They'll just have to circumvent the Russians jamming tech. Or give peace a chance, and stop encircling them with NATO bases.
@@robertbradbury7921 The reason for the Su-35 and the KC-172 missiles and Р-37
@@robertbradbury7921 I'll correct you, actually GLONASS is used in Russia and some other countries by any civil navigator along with GPS.
Also, Russian guided weapons long ago have installed ability of using both GLONASS and GPS
Pair JDAMs with HARM missils, if they turn on a jammer you get to hit the jammer if they don't the JDAM will hit its target, sooner or later they will run out of jamming equipment.
You need air superiority as well as a strike group in order to effectively sweep clean with HARM missiles.
Its useless
Nothing can compare with Russian shovel
Harm will be shot by air defenses.. They are just ordinary radar seeking missiles
Unfortunately HARMs are way more expensive than JDAMs, I doubt even the US can just spam thouse out
@@fabianwho9797 Print more money.
What?......the friggin US military never figured the enemy would jam their guidance???? That's insane.
🛰🔍 It's fascinating to delve into the complexities of modern warfare technology and the vulnerabilities it may face. While guided weapons have advanced systems like GPS and inertial guidance, the potential threat of GPS spoofing raises intriguing questions. Ensuring the security of these systems becomes crucial to maintain accuracy and effectiveness. Exploring countermeasures and addressing vulnerabilities will be vital for future advancements in warfare technology. The evolving landscape of warfare technology continues to captivate and challenge us. 💥🔒🌐
Yeah, right. This guy has such detailed information on what is working and not in Ukraine. Misinformation is a also a guided bomb.
I was thinking the same thing.
How is he able to get such detailed information without the FBI visiting him to get his source?
Was this part of of that leak by the IT Airman?
Or is someone feeding him BS.
If this is a known problem going back years to Syria why would NATO send arms into an area the Russia would definitely have jammers deployed?
Oh wait, we're the people who make our enemies richer by trading with them and sending them our jobs.
Never mind.
Misinformation & hypocrisy is USA and European countries favourite 😅.....
You do realise GPS can be spoofed (meaning false location) can be done I was at tech conference 1998 and standing in a room in Brisbane a suitcase with a spoof signal showed my GPS that I was now travelling over ocean at 300kph. Then it flew me back to where I was standing. That was 25 years ago, so yeah GPS is easy to override.
I am also skeptical, because if this was happening then Russia would capitalize on all these misses in their propaganda streams. Sorry, calling bs on this.
@@ntal5859 Which is exactly why modern missiles don't rely on it.
If nothing else, this is a fantastic real life weapon efficiency appraisal against a matched opponent.
I heartily concur. Real battlefield testing against an opponent using mostly Western hi-tech components. Lesson - never sell anything to RU again.
@@DataWaveTaGo oh, i think he is right. For the west, this war is like awakening from a fairy tale.
@@robydragu6705Absolutely so. The Western propaganda machine can convince many in the West otherwise through media reporting, but the brass know the truth and it's probably just as you stated. Russia isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Grenada, or Libya.
@@DataWaveTaGo They'll just figure out a way to steal then. An edge in a technological arms race is only temporary, as humans are good at figuring out a way to cheat whenever there is an incentive to do so.
@@DataWaveTaGo Don't be dramatic the only thing russians lack are the the very small semi condictors, and after this war they will catch up.
The news I've seen largely credit the HIMARS launched missiles as being quite successful. I've also heard of some success with the Excalibur 155mm smart munition. However, I've heard very, very little about success with two other systems - the JDAM/JDAM-ER and the Switchblade 300/600 loitering munitions. The Switchblade is manually guided using video feedback to an operator and was advertised as being 'jam resistant'. I assume that GPS signal jamming may also be expanded (different frequencies) to include jamming of video and/or guidance signals.
At the beggining HIMARS were very effective, but currently, we don't see much result, Russian pigs have unfortunatly find the way to destroy the effectivness of HIMARS
you have heard propaganda from your censored globalist so-called free democratic media and everything they want you to hear, which is far from the truth
Do these reports come from the USA, NATO or Ukraine ??? 🤦♀️🤦♂️🤣😂🤣🤣
Agreed. Very little mention of success with those systems.
@@thinkforyourself1547 I don't know. This video mentioned one source as being 'Politico'. That source is generally pretty good. HOWEVER, to better assess the credibility of this report, it should cite the source from which Politico obtained the info. I have seen video where the JDAM hit the intended target SPOT ON. I accept that some percentage of JDAM may have not hit the target, but if they were failing en masse, we'd be hearing more about it than just from this channel.
There are multiple satellite navigation systems up there and there are receivers that can use multiple systems at the same time. Match the location information across the different systems and only switch when you cant get matching position info, or throw out one of the three mismatched before switching to INS.
Maybe these JDAMs just aren't nearly as good as they are marketed to be?
An extra boosted new GPS constellation with directed transmitter that target weapons in flight might help accuracy
Not much use when all frequencies are jammed. The problem is there’s not been proper attention to suppressing electronic countermeasures in Ukraine.
glonass ?
they should use glide bombs then at least those work
The US military think-tank should therefore employ offline guidance systems for its JDAMs that immediately switch to inertial when it encounters a jamming signal. The bomb therefore will have in its memory the last possible location of its target and head for that location using its internal mapping system, even without the use of GPS. Of course if the target moves, the bomb will have no way of having an accurate hit but it may get close enough to made a difference.
Like memory guidance as a back up thats looking for picture of that particular system. That way it wouldn't be affected by radar. Like on jet fighters. Look down shoot down. Target a picture instead.
The J-DAMS already have this application, but I don’t think we equipped Ukraine with that particular feature. The Jdam tech is super cool, and when you see it, you’re like, “is that it?” Russia will have some countermeasures, that is too be expected. It’s a game of who can get the last signal before gravity ends the trip. I think the UA is dropping ordinance at low altitude to avoid those 300’s. Don’t blame them. We need to set them up with some Hellfires and Mavericks.
Or, we could just train up a squadron of Ukrainians on the A-10 with full armament. Too bad the Ukrainians don’t have air superiority.
@@brucehanna9473 A-10 is useful only against third world with no or poorly trained/ equipped air defence. It has no chance against proper anti-air, not to mention Russia which for decades built it's defence strategy around air defence against superior number of NATO jets, creating undoubtedly best anti-air systems in the World, having insane World record of shooting down Ukrainian fighter jet at 217 km
@@mrobocop1666 russia is a third world country with poor equipment and training
People who know stuff - how can the jamming be countered, if at all? Can the jamming vehicles be located from a distance in any way?
I think one issue may be a lack of training with this type of munition. I often see US pilots using a lob maneuver to release these types of munitions as well as laser guided munitions (going back to the gulf war). This allows them to release the weapon from farther away, as well as approach from a lower altitude if needed before popping up a steep angle, gaining altitude and speed before releasing the weapon in the direction of the target. If they are just running in low and then gaining minimal altitude and releasing as if it were a normal bomb then the secondary targeting is not getting the time to come into play.
Nice way to summaries your comment: They worked against bunch of men in sandals but don't work against a real military.
@@easy94883 A better way is that - the method of use is half the equation of success. It has nothing to do with the target competence. (Oddly, it is often Russian hardware that was being destroyed in Iraq and Afghanistan...)
As far as real militaries go...A real military could cloth and equip its soldiers properly. Russia cannot. Even in a small conflict like this they struggle to properly outfit their soldiers for battle.
Ukraine is smaller than the state of Texas. I could not imagine the USA having to fight a war against a nation that small in comparison and that close while also having to tell our own soldiers to "bring their own kit". Granted the average American could probably bring a lot more firepower and personal equipment to bear, than a Russian but that is a moot point. Russia's actual military capability is pathetic. The world can see that.
@@socket_error1000cope harder
@@socket_error1000you forget that russian fighter and anti aircraft system are passive or counter mode.
Your comparison is too simple minded, what happen in gulf war doesn't equal with what happen in ukraine war, all generations mil equipments are used in this theater.
Even himars guided rocket (some of ammunitions types is gliding bomb) can be intercepted if certain Russian radars and aa in active conditions, this case also applies to Russian air based equipment.
This video proving that guided munitions is constantly fail to attack targets.
Why you think flying tricks will change the outcome when the problems is about main technology in weapons that defines its weapons existence, not ukraine mil doctrine.
don't JDAMs have INS guidance as well? I know HIMARS does
Impossible to jam a GMLRS.
the targetting error of GPS is probably 1 to 5 meters, error of an INS is probably 10 to 100 meters
Excellent video 📹
Fighting Russia 🇷🇺 is not the same as fighting Iraq.
The western people don’t know that and believe everything media throws at them
While jamming can pose challenges, it's important to note that modern guided weapons like JDAM, GMLRS, and Storm Shadow have built-in GPS and inertial guidance systems. Even if GPS is lost, they can rely on inertial guidance to maintain accuracy. However, the real concern lies in GPS spoofing, where the weapons are tricked into believing they are somewhere else, hindering the switch to inertial guidance. This raises intriguing questions about the vulnerabilities and countermeasures of modern warfare technology. 🌐🚀🔒
The inertial guidance system will accumulate significant errors between launch and target without the benefit of position fixes.
Storm Shadow, like Tomahawk, has Digital Image Scene Correlation and Radar TERCOM (TERrian COntour Mapping. It doesn't need to use GPS at all to maintain accuracy.
@@glynnwright1699 When I was a young man in the 1980s a cheaper "dry" INS would have a drift rate of about 1 nautical mile per hour. Works out at about 0.5 meters/second. -There were various strategies to limit drift such as having orthogonal accelerometers on a rotating platform to null out any instrument bias. As important if not morose as occasional position fixes was speed fixes. This could be obtained by Doppler radar if over land. Much greater accuracy (I think about 100) could be obtained with a "wet" system where everything is in exotic fluorocarbons eg bearings and the whole reference is floating in it rather than gimbals. (so no gimbal lock). The most famous wet system is the AIRES used in the MX Peacemaker ICBM which could guaranteed a 100m accuracy half way around the world. About 99% of that error comes from errors in gravitational maps.
-High end assets (SR-71, B-2, Trident) would have a celestial navigation or star tracker system. They work through clouds so about 180m accuracy. Then of course there is terrain contour mapping and digital image scene correlation.
-Modern MEMS based INS/IMU on a chip must also have drift rates of 0.5m/sec or 1 nautical mile per hour because rought calcuation of the NLAW ATGM in its 2.5 second 600 flight suggest this is the drift it must have.
-I would think with a proper antenna on a specialized bomb (rather than a kkit) with the space needed would overcome jamming.
When I was a radar operator in the coastal defence I witnessed the russians spoof radar targets also...
Or using cheap Chinese micro circuitry.
So can radar/radio seeking sensors be added to HIMARS rockets? Fire a volley, first few take out the jammers, and the rest find their other intended targets?
And some of the weapons are equipped with a home on jam system and when being jammed automatically switch to it and home in on the jamming system.
That sounds excellent!
😂
Even with inertial guidance, doesn't the bomb need to know where it's released from the plane? i.e. - if Russians start jamming GPS, then the fighter jet that drops the bomb isn't too sure where it is either - so how can it tell the bomb exactly where to go?
Upvoted. This I believe is exactly what is occurring. The inertial guidance is working, but if your GPS location in the aircraft is already wrong, then it don't matter if the internal (inertial) guidance system works 100%, it been programmed with the wrong starting point as to where it thinks it was dropped/released from the aircraft.
The problem isn't simply that the GPS signal is drowned out by noise produced by jammers, the signal can also be replaced by a fake signal that is not recognized as such by the JDAM. The inertial navigation then does not take over as long as there is no red flag in the form of a sudden jump in the difference between the position according to the inertial navigation and the GPS. If the fake GPS signal then causes a gradual drift between GPS and inertial navigation, then the system will flag that as being a gradual drift in the inertial navigation, and the system is programmed to reset the inertial navigation to the GPS.
I think the the Jdam could be used as good to way to target the jamming with radar seeking missiles. Send 1 j dam and 5, 6 radar seeking missiles when Russian turn on jammers. That solve the Jamming and finding the jammer for destruction.
Switch over to The Storm Shadow cruise missiles for a higher success ratio and take out the jammers.
Nah, even Himars is getting jammed. All Ukranian "game changers" didn't change anything they lost Bakhmut, there is no game changer only nukes.
@@djkinetic2020 😆
There is no gap in russian air defense systems.
@@djkinetic2020 lol, it took more than a year for the Russia to take one town, suddenly its all about 'they lost Bakhmut'. You also have a very short memory about how HIMARS did change the game, they took Russia from progressing quite well, to have lost more territory since its introduction than they have taken. Nukes are a loose loose for everyone, Russia too,
@@guyb7995 HIMARS is done. Patriot is done. Storm Shadow is done. Now send f-16s and watch get dealt with too. This is getting tedious.
With the number of SAM systems, neither side seems to be doing much, if any high flying over the other's territory.
So I can't imagine there's much use for this type of bomb at this moment anyway.
They can still bomb the zero line by launching from inside friendly territory. But: yeah, the true potential of the JDAM is unrealized. I would bet that the looming counteroffensive won't begin until this issue is solved. And yes, it is solvable.
Because so much is at stake, years of R&D will be crammed into months.
Don't flatter yourself, Ukraine is getting the phuck bombed out it. 😂
But Russia literally using 500 and 1500 kg guided gliding heavy airbombs for a month already and Ukrainian can do few against them, saying that's an imba
russian glide bombs are doing just fine
Very good that the Russians are adapting quickly to these and overcoming enemy weapon systems
A directional gos antenna should be aiming up the sky installed at the back of the device to strength immunity on jamming.
The question to asked is how are the Russians receiving their sat signals within the same area of operation as the GPS sat signal. The noise and other jamming techniques are extremely targeted to more than the rf signal itself. Second they seem to be using large LF arrays as well as phased arrays at higher GPS signals so the jamming may be a directed rf signal on the battlefield with a wide array noise floor using harmonics. More advanced jamming techniques can not be discussed on this forum.
Sound weapons are nothing new.
JDAMS needs to be able to detect if jamming or spoofing is going on and switch to attack the source of the counterfeit signal.
They are gliding bombs, not drones or rockets. They can't just switch and fly to another direction.
Interesting.
Take out the Jammers!
Just like, take out the Fuel Supplies.
I know it’s easier said, than done, but that could be the strategy.
Time for a GLONASS kit option? Can HAARMs be set to attack GPS jammers?
I wonder how wide spread this really is. I suspect it's not as wide spread as this video implies. I still see very accurate GMLRS/HIMARS strikes videos
Would this explain why I set my car satnav to take me to Glasgow last week and ended up in Kyiv.
Douglas MacGregor and Scott Ritter have been saying this but didn't know it was true till now
Question: wouldn't the jammer not also make themselves vulnerable to signal tracing munitions?
Yep. I've read the military industrial complex is already developing systems to hone in on jamming systems to eradicate them
It's interesting that Excalibur artillery rounds, which are also GPS guided, don't seem to be having the same problems.
Or the gmlrs
@@Ozchuck you are reading the wrong news
you are reading the wrong news
@@timookello3822 You’re reading the wrong news. How about yesterday in Mariupol 🚀💥🇷🇺⚰️seems like Storm Shadow or HIMARS is working good 👍
P😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The GPS signal is actually very weak near the ground and can be further down degraded . Inertial navigation cannot be so qffected but it is much more complicated to handle
Finally, someone is admitting to something Russia does well
Except they are not half as good as he claims.
@@DetroitMicroSound You know after years of picking on farmers and goat headers your going to look pretty good and strong. Get yourself into a real modern war and things wont be as rosy as you expected them to be
@@LutherusPXCs Laugh it up. Also, NATO is going to teach RuZFed a lesson, and take away it's war toys of terrorism, and genocide.
@@DetroitMicroSoundyou remember the ameriCUN T ran like rats against rice farmers and goat herders with old soviet AK
Losing? They do that very well
The best military analysis available is right here.
What if it's not jamming but a projection issue? Maybe they use a us centric srid projection which error margins are amplified at different latitudes.
Some projections are very precise in the Nordic countries and are used in the oil industry, these very same projections are relatively inaccurate when used closer to the equator.
That is a benefit in supplying weapons to Ukraine. You find out the weakness of your weapons in actual combat without having to get blood on your hands and doing harm to yourself. Invaluable research.
But since other guided weapons seem to be very successful, it could be that the range tests were faked by the manufacturer. It wouldn't be the 1st time.
Exactly
@@UnCannyValley67 Russia is also known how to counter all their weapons
@@waterworldsmith
Especially Moskva ship was the expert in eliminating few Neptun missiles before commencing "the special submarine operation" ;))))
Yeah, you're right on to it.
The US did this with F-14s to Iran in the 1970s which is why I thought of it. The Iranans did their beta testing for them and paid full price. Look how good the F-14 became.
@@ThePaulv12 Apparently it didn't become good enough to continue operating...
Are there JDAMs coming in June? I thought I heard that safety testing of the stockpile is what is taking a while to supply them to Ukraine...
Just set up decoy transmitters for anti radiation missile mitigation. As for GPS, radio jamming or amplify GPS satelite signals from a dummy satelite.
"meeg 29" made me chuckle
So the obvious question is can the GPS receivers be hardened against jamming. If not, GPS guidance will be worthless against any sophisticated enemy. The next question is whether Russian jammers can be destroyed by anti-radar type missiles. They would seem like obvious targets and can't turn their emitters off in order to work.
Russia has destroyed all the Wonder Weapons Ukraine has received. Ukraine is phucked...in all 7 holes.
No, sorry that the obvious GPS receivers cannot be "hardened" as you say or improved sensitivity only would hinder. Good shielding of the missile may possibly help. Yes to your second question. Russian jammers have already been destroyed. I'm not too sure about how the military does it but I'm sure there are many techniques. One way is just to get a "trashy" transmitter that is all over the bands (like your hair dryer was on the reception of old tv's.) or it maybe frequency specific (most likely). I don't think anyone knows how it is actually done unless they are in military communications intelligence. I think I have a good idea about how they go about it. Maybe the newer missiles have better faster sat scan rates is my first guess. If you know, please tell me.
Yes, the jammer can be destroyed using GPS guidance.
GPS is pretty vulnerable due to weak signal strength
....and spoofing
If Ukraine had more attack helicopters. Bullets,and rocket pods would be much more effective,and radar systems can't detect bullets. The A10 Warthog is perfect for that mission for Ukraine but Ukraine needs the f16 fighters to protect the warthogs. Give them the A tackums missiles too. Or a drone that looks like a bug. That can hunt these radar systems down. Land,and blow them up
Email that information to the Ukrainian general staff.
JDAMs are from the nineties, to say they are precision guided bombs is a stretch. Modern systems are far less reliant on GPS for their precision. Hey I guess if Russia can use T-55 tanks that date back to the 1950's we can repurpose 30 year old bombs.
On DCS my jdams kept missing too! Can't remember how I solved it but was something... Resorted to laser guided lased at last 10secs worked everytime
An issue with Ukrainians deploying JDAMs from MiG-29s and Su-24s is that their electronics are probably not compatible with the weapons they are deploying. The HARMs look like they were being controlled by a tablet and not the mission computer of the aircraft. The JDAM can be programmed on the ground or dynamically in the air. The ability to assign targets in the air is more effective than pre-programming them on the ground.
The Russian tactics are similar to those used during the Yom Kippur War by Egypt and the Iran/Iraq War. Basically, you establish an air defense umbrella over your lines with low-altitude radar-guided AA guns, IR MANPADs, and medium/high altitude SAMs. Bring up your artillery to saturate your enemy's lines with shell fire and then conduct bite and hold offensives underneath that umbrella trying to lure your enemy into counterattacks. The problem for the Ukrainians is interdicting Russian supply lines in their rear areas to break up attacks because they are lacking air-support and guided medium-range tactical missiles. Normally SEAD missions target enemy air defenses to prepare for air attacks on logistics hubs but a lack of Ukrainian airpower makes that difficult. Also sending elephants to hunt elephant guns isn't a great strategy unless you are conducting deep strike operations.
Another way to neutralize enemy air defenses is to use attack helicopters to sneak in under enemy radars and then destroy SAM sites with IR or laser-guided missiles like in the 1st Gulf War. But that would leave Ukrainian attack helicopters vulnerable to AA guns, MANPADs, and SAMs. The Israelis suffered heavy losses during the Yom Kippur War due to Egyptian IAD systems but when the Egyptians tried to advance beyond their IAD umbrella they suffered heavy losses to Israeli air power. An interesting thing the Israelis did to counter Arab IAD during the Lebanon War was to mount Standard ARM missiles on ground launchers which could be brought up to the front lines under the enemy IAD umbrella to destroy SAM sites. The Israelis would send over reconnaissance drones to get their enemies to turn on their radars and once illuminated fire their anti-radiation missiles. Since the Standard ARMs were only a short distance from the SAM sites they could often destroy them before they had a chance to launch. Once gaps had been opened in the air defense umbrella strike aircraft and helicopters could then attack enemy defense lines. This option of sneaking up underneath an enemy IAD umbrella could become more important in the future when facing the newest generation of Russian and Chinese air defenses due to their long range.
I would hope that Western companies would develop anti-radiation missiles which could be launched from ground-launched MLRS to take out enemy IAD radars, artillery fire detection/direction radars, and enemy communications towers. If the Ukrainians had ground-launched anti-radiation missiles they could punch holes in the Russian air defense umbrella. But with insufficient numbers of attack helicopters, attack aircraft, and medium-range guided missiles NATO is allowing the Russians to bleed the Ukrainians white. In an age where everyone has access to a cellphone that means battlefield communications have become decentralized. That means there are a lot of radio frequency signals generated by your enemy. Since these signals are cheap and ubiquitous anti-radiation missiles need to become cheap and ubiquitous to deprive your enemy of their detection and communications infrastructure. While it may not be practical to target every cellphone with SIGINT you can collate the signals and give priority to higher-value targets. For instance, if you can collate the signals and see that enemy officers are issued satellite phones you can target those signals and kill off your enemy's leadership.
Good analysis! Patchwork inclusion of very sophisticated weaponry onto a platform never designed for it likely means the end result is less than it would be with a proper host. Perhaps this is why the Polish F-16's are on the way? Our modern aircraft can lob dumb bombs with pretty decent accuracy so if the Russians blank off the electromagnetic spectrum with their jamming...the F-16's might just make the JDAM's unnecessary. Of course the F-16's also open the door for advanced cruise missiles and all the other toys in our playbox...but I pray that sanity will soon prevail and the fighting stopped. It hurts my heart to see the generational hatred that is being generated in Ukraine that will linger for decades.
During the NATO invasion of Yugoslavia, out of the 700+ HARM fired throughout the war, only 3 AA batteries were destroyed! This war in ukraine has shown, judging by the number of wrecked HARM flooding social media, that it never really improved in 20 years.. an expensive piece of flying banana. $870,000 a piece for this junk!
@@recoilrob324 that hatred can end much sooner than we think.
Just 20 years ago Chechnya was destroyed in war and recaptured by Russian, nobody believed Chechen people and rest of Russians could have normal relationships again for centuries.
But today Republic of Chechya is rebuilt much better than before the Chechen wars and Chechens are one of most patriotic peoples of Russia, many serve and even fight on frontline in Russian army (tens of thousands), while number of Chechens fighting against Russia is just couple of hundreds.
Maybe Russians and Ukrainian will find peace as fast as in mentioned case.
@@mrobocop1666 I doubt if chechen love of russians is so sincere. I believe they serve in rear guard units (zagrad otriad) much more eagerly to shoot russians.
This is another problem because the technology designed for us and Nato aircraft may not always work with Russian equipment
Shouldn't JDAM GPS systems be using semidirectional antennas that only receive from above? That should make ground based jammers less effective. Granted it also means you can't use the WAIS signals, but you can't have everything.
Russians have AWACs too. LOL
They also have their own military Satellites. And their own GPS SYSTEM for their equipment.
Plus they transmit any fake signals and Jamming, they want.
Russians are not stupid. In spite of what Propaganda says
AND.... They've been getting rid of all Junky equipment from decades ago. And they're saving the best for last.
The Best is yet to come!!
Nope
Such anti jamming aerials are available and they are no even big or expensive. They tend to work more by blocking in the direction of jamers than being directional towards the GPS satellites. I suspect the JDAM kits are cost cutting and simply don't have the best anti jamming antenna.
The JDAM can use a directional antenna but it would always have to face the satellite. Also satellite signals are much broader with less power and is hard to overcome jamming at any directivity of the antenna. Also, I would consider the source of this video. Don't believe everything you see.
yes, rusasins makeclaims about their super duper jammers and then we can see videos of their jammers being taken out by drones or gps guided missiles
Can it be possible to use laser designation from small drones ?
Might as well just make the drone the boooomb.
Anyone looking at the way air strikes are conducted by both Ukrainian and Russian airforces would note that low-level lobbing of guided bombs in EW environment is most likely culprit. bombs trajectory is far less forgiving and prone to launch error resulting in releases that are on the boundary or outside the envelope of JDAM guidance package maneuvering capability. Jdams have previously been used from medium to high altitudes where minimal guidance corrections were needed to score a hit. Jerry rigged integration onto Soviet jet probably further shrinks the Jdam release envelope in practice.
Exactly, the problem here is two fold. GPS spoofing and flying at low altitudes to avoid Anti air missiles. There's significant video evidence out of Ukrainian tactics used to strike ground targets from the air, including an interview with a Ukrainian "ace" pilot who goes into detail about flying low to score the amount of ground kills he's praised for.
The ghost of Kiev?
@@austindenotter19 no but dude has over 300 sorties
Hahah tells you the PR-Department of Ukraine, who would tell you he is the ace of the aces to get your money and your weapons... You are so naive over there, it's incredible 😂😂😂
@@foshizzlfizzl So you're saying in a year-long conflict there hasn't been one Ukrainian ace produced?
@@Zarastro54 No, what I'm saying is, that those aces were pushed for PR and propaganda you need to promote a western narrative. The most of those aces aren't available anymore, and we are only 1 year in 😉
I thought the Russians were cannibalizing captured Ukrainian washing machines for their electronic circuits. I guess, you can do a lot a stuff with these high tech washing machines.
Russia just grinds the shovels into a dust and makes chips from that on the spot.
Downloaded the latest GPS mapping in the JDAM needs to be updated before the flight and after the pilot enters the GPS into the JDAM, even while jammed by Russia or whoever, the JDAM should hit within the 90 feet coordinates.
Simple solution. The GPS jammers emit a radio signal. Hit the jammers with an anti-radiation missile first and remove the jamming.
It would be interesting if they could setup a system like counter artillery to localize the jamming location and then hit it. Not sure if it's possible to program in an exact location in a HIMARS rocket or perhaps Storm Shadows and fly to that location under strictly initertial navigation.
jammers move that is why you usually see them on wheels, as discussed on the video they are only activated if a radar detects something. as a secondary defense you also have surface to air missiles. jammers are also located deep inside russian territory so you will need long range missiles. If the US is against their vehicles being within russian territory then the more so with any missiles
Ukrainian have tried it before. But all they ever achieved is destroying the cheap antenna. Russia placed the radiating antenna few hundred meters away from the jammer and connected between the two with a shielded cable.
@@fadlya.rahman4113 didnt know that, smart from the Russian side
You mean anti radiation missile? You need a lot of them. And NATO simply can't produce tons of them.
Am sure the Chinese are keeping an eye on this, while getting ready for the Taiwan campaign.
I cannot wait to do a bit of recreational diving on the wrecks of the US Strike Carrier Groups.
@@Memovox You should get some practice on the Moskva. 😂
@@Ashley-wm7ix I prefer souvenirs from dead Americans.
@@Ashley-wm7ix or even the NORD pipelines.
Thank you very much for your help and weapons for Ukraine
People do not realize that INS is not very precise for longer range strikes. Which Ukraine will mostly do. This essentially turns this glide bomb into area attack weapon which is only good against super rare troop concentrations or civilian markets.
I love how the f-35 is attacking that Sherman easy 8
That's why need to add AI day/night terrain mapping navigation and target acquisition guidance systems to them in an upgraded add-on package. That combined with their inertia guidance system, should be sufficient for them to function effectively without a GPS signal. Add military grade shielding around the electronics. Problem solved, mission accomplished. Then they can simply disable GPS navigation and pre-program GPS starting coordinates from well known launch points, within controlled airspace.
Why not add terminal image recognition guidance so you home on the target and initial guidance only has to get you close.
They need to change the software so that if there is a significant difference between the inertial guidance position and the GPS position due to spoofing then just drop the GPS guidance
Excellent reporting.
JDAM’s are very useful if the launch platform is configured to be a strike platform
A strike fighter would have self protection jammer , targeting pod , EW suite , chaffs and flares couple with MAWs LWR and RWR etc
I don’t think Ukrainian Mig-29 has all these and that’s why they are asking for F-16
But my thought is Ukraine should get SAAB Gripen jets instead because I don’t think Ukraine will get the most advanced f-16 V viper variant
Like Gripens! Any half decent road is an airfield and they are set up for easy maintenance,
Speaking of jamming, we should not forget another US wonder weapon - the Switchblade drone - it was poised to annihilate and humiliate Russian forces, but I never heard one case of its successful use. As far as I know, it failed so spectacularly that the US Army cancelled the procurement program completely.
The US updated their JADAM more than 10 years back to have higher gain antennas to lower this issue but it seems the Russians are deploying much stronger signal maybe dorectional signals too to sort out this issue.
4 days after this video it was announced that JDAMS will be delivered to Ukraine. It is very hard for JDAMS to fail before even being used.
Maybe, just maybe.
General James Hecker (commander of U.S. Air Force Europe) said that jdams have been supplied to Ukraine since March 2023
The JDAM bomb developers then should employ a system that utilizes some internal mapping in its computers to guide the bomb towards its target even without GPS. The bomb should be able to switch to inertial guidance (INS) when it encounters a jamming signal and not be tricked by it or maybe the bomb can go after the signal of the jammer's location instead. If the target is moving then maybe using a laser beam or some sort of infrared targeting device to guide the bomb as an alternative may be an option, if a ground unit (even a UAV drone) could assist in the targeting mode, albeit risky.
It already does this, both for HIMARS and JDAM
I've always though GPS was desined to operate in two modes: open documented civilian mode and classified military mode. Is it so ?
I'm pretty sure there are options to counter the jamming like the use of different GPS (GLONASS/Chinas, whatever it is called) at the same time, preprogrammend terrain mapping, anti-jammer etc. but then a JDAM system wouldn't cost 30k but like 200k per bomb. War on the long run is already expensive af. It's always about the cost-benefit efficacy.
Russia has had over 20 years to prepare defensive systems against US and western offensive weapon systems. Also as pointed out below on other comments Ukrainian aircraft electronics are not up to snuff on advanced systems, their ability make due with what they have is admirable to impressive at times but in this case duct tape and ipads won't cut it which is probably why they are clamoring for western attack aircraft as their fighters are outdated. But I still think American pilots would still have their hands full even with the most modern aircraft and competent pilots. But we would still prevail should we take them on until the nukes start flying then it's over for everyone.
You would never prevail and never prevailed in the past. American equipment is good againt 3d world countries and USA has never won against enemy alone, only with huge crowd of allies.
Nukes?
Even a tiny weeny tactical nuke..? which many in the US think ..if one is popped off... Russia will fold ...and fall to their knees...
A raid needs arranging in order to capture a couple of these jammers, find out how they work, and invent a jamming system that interferes with their operating system. I'm sure the Ukrainians have the means to carry out such an attack. SLAVA UKRAINE 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇬🇧
I am sure we will be conducting more elint to find ways to locate and destroy these systems
@@jamesjohnson1710 I’m sure you will be thinking soon about many different things that are very far away from destroying Russian jammers 😂
the former easily explained is that they skew the frequency so the frequency is correct for the robot but the position is incorrect on impact
They need to make a projectile that is multi functional in that it homes in on the jamming system once it is jammed and ignore the original target. Also, recon drones that are 'buzzed' by Russian or Chinese aircraft at close dangerous range activate a self destruct bomb and takes out the offending aircraft.
What's Amazing is how westerners are pushing Ukraine to a certain death by convincing them the journey gonna be a nice ride 😂😂
It's called ethnic cleansing and russians are doing the dirty work. It's quite clever.
I'd think there would be an option to lock onto the jamming system and simply eliminate it as an alternative target.
These are glide bombs. They cannot fly wherever they wish.
Just today there was a new vid of jdam use. I wonder if the US solved this problem quickly?
it is not a software issue it is a system issue
Because the Russian military has comprehensive EW capabilities in GPS jamming, spoofing, and tracking capabilities, honed against modern NATO PGMs in Syria and Ukraine, as well as a world leading range of sophisticated integrated air defence systems to intercept them, as seen with HIMAR rockets, JADAM, HARM etc intercepted by Pansir S1 to TOR-ME2 to BUK-M3 to S-350 to S-400.
world leading range of sophisticated integrated air defence systems 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@panan7777 name one air-defence system better than Russian S-400 when it comes to it's characteristics and abilities?
The obsolete 50 year-old Patriot system?
@@mrobocop1666 ummm the patriot has been upgraded over & over & over again so that argument doesn't work not to mention we see how well it's been working again their so called "hypersonic" kinzhal!...you must be reading and being sucked into Russian propaganda!! I believe the Israeli and American jointly developed iron dome & david's sling and not to mention the arrow 1 & 2. stop reading the Russian propaganda online!!
@@mrobocop1666 Yeah, the Patriot is only good at shooting down Kinzhal missiles.
@@marinrealestatephotography "Yeah, the Patriot is only good at shooting down Kinzhal missiles in ukrainian reports" to be precise.
This video is awesome. I love the honesty of what's happening for once. Too many creators are minimizing Ukraine losses, and they're not being truth-full to their audience.
Could Hedy Lamarr`s (Hedy Kiesler Markey) spread spectrum switching invention (U.S. Patent 2,292,387) help?
Hi i have a question Are JDAM bombs effective only with fixed targets ? thanks
yes because GPS positions are fixed.
@@JL-tm3rc hi thank you for the very kind and valuable reply
i was thinking about the best missile concept
i understand that some very fast missiles speed down close to the target i would try the opposite to try to accelerate in proximity of the target with a solid fuel booster
like a fireball
@@gino3286 the best missile concept is to have a homing device placed on a target. this can be done by sending a package to the target or placed by saboteurs. the missile will only be communicating to the encrypted homing device so the link is now secure from any iterference. and the missile will simply go to the target
I think the problem is unfamiliarity with a new weapon system as evidenced by the problem mentioned with fusing. The additional speculation concerning employment of the weapons by pilots is also likely a contributing cause for some failures.
Урааа Товарищи!!! 😅
Русские просто молодцы!!!
Why don't they modify them so that when they get within a certain distance from the target it switches to laser or IR guidance?
I think it could be a number of issues, each issue giving a % to the failure rate. Ukraine is making sure they are doing the right things, always growing pains when using new systems and ammo that your forces never had before. plus putting on aircraft that never were setup to use, plus tactics need to be adjusted, Electronic warfare is a very complicated thing to account for, and will take time to figure out ways around or neutralizing. plus who knows how accurate the intel is, from both sides. have to keep secrets close to chest, good and bad info. the game of misinformation is a type of warfare. Prayers to Ukraine and their fight.
Anything u can do the Russians can do better and for less
Ukrainian are doing the right thing : 1991 52 mil population, 2023 less than 20 mil population.
They are doing the right thing yes
Are you ok?
Russia is a world leader in electronic weapons, it has one that would disconnect all of Europe from satellite and GPS communications. 👍 Go Russia 🇷🇺