Vitrified Diamond Water Stones - review and sharpening on S90V
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2018
- This video is a review of vitrified diamond waterstones from Practical Sharpening. The video includes discussion on the stones and my thoughts on their performance. The video also documents using the stones in a sharpening. The knife sharpened in the video is a Spyderco Native 5 in S90V.
/ practicalsharpening - Věda a technologie
You've come to be quite the go to sharpening expert. I agree. I've learned to love and appreciate sharpening because of your edge passion and immense insights and knowledge. Thank you for always sharing your most interesting videos, Michael.
Second this.
Long time "sharpener", learned a ton from this man.
based on what i see in his videos, I question if he could even get a knife reasonable shar without the 20 different strops he's constantly relying on. i'd like to see him do ONE just one time without using a strop. otherwise, anyone can do that. get some diamond dust on mdf or basswood or whatever and and go wild. its foolproof. and the results are what you'd think. his sharpening doesn't impress me at all. his OCD in these video though. very impressive.
Always good to have a trusted and reliable source when it comes to sharpening information. Great video!
Nathan Kostelecky thank you.
I agree and your thoughtful, well spoken, consistency is what we’re relying on when watching these reviews. Great great great loved it only wish it was longer. With more info but I herd all I needed to!
Practical sharpening should make u their spokesperson, their is no better person for that. U are awesome Michael
Look at you go! Everyone is sending their products to get your stamp before production 😂. Couldn’t be a better guy for it. Maybe you need a product of your own 👍
Another great review brother I really enjoy your attention too detail and your thoroughness and accurate assessments of the products that you review, at least for me they help too give a good idea on what works and what doesn't work out there, also these videos are helpful on showing sharpening techniques and how to match up certain stones to certain knife steels all in all your videos are quite entertaining and helpful in giving an educational Direction when acquiring new knives and sharpening stones. Before watching your videos I had no idea about carbide formation and carbide tear out, you know that sort of thing but they have brought my knowledge of what I really enjoy like sharpening and trying out new Steals and knives to a whole new level.
Great video I have been waiting to see what new stones are coming out the Technology is moving so fast and it’s exciting
For the fact that the diamonds are embedded in a wearing off compound which provides another level of refinement to the edge that only a Japanese synthetic would but at a slower speed of cutting that makes these stones a “must have”. This is indeed a very good concept! Thanks for sharing Michael! 🙏🏼👊🏻👍🏻
Also this grit progression is exactly what I use on a regular basis.
PS: this is for PS (Practical Sharpening) Please let me know when and how can I get my hands on these 3 stones. Thanks!
I have 200 and 2000 from practical sharpening and while I mainly sharpen Japanese kitchen knives (mostly rather simple carbon steels), I am now finding interest in pocket knives and was wondering what sharpening setup I should be looking into. I already knew about the issues with high vanadium steels and more common water stones (of which I have quite a few), but seeing your video with results and expectations pushes me away from investing in my aged KME and going freehand on pocket knives. So I very much appreciate your interesting and in depth discussion of the sharpening processes (in several of your videos)
They sound incredible. I imagine that if they do go into production, the price tag will not be for the faint of heart, but probably worth the price if you do a lot of sharpening. Thank you for sharing the review with us. I will be on the lookout for them.
Great video Michael! Good stuff.
Tyler Eriesian Thank you.
Interesting stones, I'll have to watch for them, hopefully they'll produce them for sale. Enjoyed the video.
U should of compared these stones to the venev or the Naniwa diamond! I know there not vitrified but throw the metallic in there as well let’s see the difference. Great review. Also stone feel soft hard feedback etc.
I have 400 and 2000 grit from Practical Sharpening (the 'hard' ones) and had a chance to use the 3000 from the 'softer' ones. These stones really are fantastic. Very fast, slow wearing, not loading up. Can be flattened also with coarse synthetic stones (I used Bester 220 and Shapton Pro 1k to 'open' the 3000 as it was brand new)
I just got a 400 and 2,000 I wonder if they are harder or softer than yours
I just ordered a 400 and a 2,000 can't wait to try these out
Most interesting and informative video.
Steve Kushman thank you.
Only the wizard himself gets prototypes sent 😊
Those are awesome!!!
Ok, the holidays are over, now it's time for some new Michael Christy videos!
On other steels , I've built up my Arkansas stone collection knowing that I would have to eventually get some diamond stones . Off the translucent I can feel a tiny burr but nothing off my surgical true hard black , after that I finish on my favorite natural stone , the blue-black sub translucent. Then I strop on balsa wood with Jende poly diamond emulsions , .25 micron , .10 micron and finish with .025 micron . Haven't checked for hair whittling sharpness but can make changes in direction cuts in paper with ease . Knowing the limitations of natural stones with modern PM steels I've been researching this and came across your channel . Hopefully the cost will go down . I lapped one side of my Arkansas stone to near optical flatness, pursuing that ever sharper edge . Looking into kangaroo leather strops . This vitrified diamond stone really interested me . For the money I hope they are durable . I noticed you mentioned hydraulic locking , a very good , solid indication of flatness . But $400 dollars ? Even my 10x3x1 SB didn't cost that much . I guess I'll just have to pony up but I'm looking for solid performance and durability. Please let us know about that as you get more time on these stones . I think your right , the future of sharpening is headed in this direction . Did they tell you if these diamonds are mono or poly ? Great review !
Sam4yeshua I think these will be closer to $200 per stone, but I don’t know for sure and I can’t speak for Practical Sharpening.
Michael Christy thanks for the response , Anyway , if it's down to that price , I'll try one . Japanese imports had it at $400 . I really wished they could encase the diamonds into a stone like novaculite that would last several lifetimes . Sounds like they are pursuing this direction being that diamonds would cut any steel .
Sam4yeshua yes, I think that’s the idea. I think that Practical Sharpening is trying to put them out at a lower price then we’ve seen them sold for in the past... maybe a superior product as well.
Michael Christy I contacted them , apparently there are kinks to work out . Actually, that kind of honesty is something I respect very much , I'll keep in touch with them and wish them success .
If these stones are ever available to purchase please give a heads up!! Thanks for sharing!!
1. Family in cage...check
2. Fresh bucket of fish heads..check
3. Hot coffee.. check
4. Dull knives .. check
Whoooo whooooo! Let the Christy begin!
Gud
SuperSteel Steve LOL, fish heads... nice.
Let us know if they start mass producing these stones. I’m in the market for a good 400 grit stone for taking chips out or re-profile jobs.
Thanks for testing!
How do you know they are releasing abrasive if they are not dishing? Is there a obvious slurry forming?
How do these compare in use ability to the shapton glass stones and which would you prefer?
Could you use them to flatten a traditional resin bond AO stone, King, etc. . or the high grade SiC stones, SPS-II, etc?
You wanna buy a cutting edge 500 ish stone to flatten lesser stones? That a bit of sic powder does?
Michael Christy, thank you for all your amazing videos. They are so inspiring and informative! I have a question for you, and sorry if it’s already something you’ve previously covered. When you get to your polishing stones as you go through your sharpening progression, (assuming you are going this far in your sharpening) do you still raise a burr on those polishing stones?
thegreatchug yes. It’s difficult, but necessary.
Michael Christy, thanks
Awesome video!! I wonder if these stones are similar to Edge Pro's Diamond Matrix Stones. I am using almost the same DMT and Spyderco progression that you use but I sharpen on the Hapstone V6. There's no way I could get the same results hand sharpening.
Anthony Waldrep I don’t think the Matrix stones are the same.
Holy crap. I was trying to cut computer paper and this guy is whittling hairs.
Do you like vitrified over metallic ? And possibly resin?
Did you pick up the cf native chief?
Another excellent informative vid. Thank you for this. Quick question if you don't mind Sir. What is the thickness of the Native 5 blade behind the secondary bevel as I am considering to add this knife to my collection? Only like slicers however.....
morati1963 I don’t recall off hand, but check my review of the knife.
morati1963 or check Spyderco’s website. They list the measurements.
@@michaelchristy4982 Thank you Sir....
What are some examples of compounds you might use in a typical progression. Brands and micron/ grit rating?
Patrick Graves I usually list the compounds and micron sizes... definitely in later videos I do. I usually use products from Ken Schwartz. The progression (grit size) of compound that I use changes, but it’s usually discussed in the videos.
hey whaat do you think od a black arkasaw insted of the spydeco altrafine i would like your apinyon
Richard White been a long time since I used an Arkansas, but I think Alumina is much harder then quartz, but I would need to try an Arkansas to be sure there’s not an advantage.
Can you test them on soft steel, to see if they wear fast? Like silicone carbide stones. I work in kitchen and atoma 400 grit stone is my to go stone. It's fast and fine for kitchen prep. If you want step finer after atoma 400 grit, I use the back of a kitchen service plate. My atoma stone is starting to wear, with sharpening and flattening waterstones. The kitchen knives on a Monday, are so dull if you run the knife on palm of your hand, it will not cut you. You have under 10 minutes to get this soft knife sharp , to last service. I like waterstones but for these crappie soft kitchen knives, not going use them. I would like your, input.
Christian B in that situation, I’ve usually done a very coarse stone like a 400 or 320, followed by a short time on something like an UF, just to clean the edge up and bring the sharpness up (Not to polish the edge. I can’t stress that enough in this case).
The low end stainless steels won’t hold a polished edge. Leaving a good amount of tooth is a better idea.
Do you sharpen knives for others or just personal?
do you prefer using the Ken Schwartz Diamond Emulsion on leather or on wood?
osmosis 01 both, but I’ve been using it on leather quite a bit recently.
A bit of an off-topic question. I usually strop with cream alluminium oxide based compounds, right now having a couple of knives in more "difficult" metals (maxamet and s110v) I went looking at diamond compounds. I've seen most of them are water based suspensions, now I wonder: aren't diamond dust in micron or even sub-micron sizes actually an health hazard? What would happen when the water dry up and you end up breathing the stuff, or if you happen to spill it around?
valebliz I’ve never heard of it being a problem.
However, couldn’t you make the same argument for other compounds? Is diamond bad for you?
Maybe all compounds should be used wet.
@@michaelchristy4982 i was thinking of diamond compounds just because because they seem more volatile when dry, being water based opposed to a paste/cream based compound. I imagine the same problems could be there with nanodusts of other materials
Hey Michael have you tried the atoma diamond stones? I found them to be a big step up in quality and lasting much longer than dmt. They go up to 1200 but I think with the 3k diamond from Ken and then your UF stone you will get an incredible edge. I'm sure you've tried them though but just never heard you talk about them or seen them in your videos but I could be wrong
Paul Lonardo no, you’re right. I’ve only used an Atoma 140. I’ve thought about getting them though.
@@michaelchristy4982 Ive had all the dmt's and the best thing I ever did was get the atoma 140,400,600, and 1200. They last much longer which means they stay true to grit longer which I guess means you get a better polish with the dmt after they wear but I have yet to wear the atomas out so who knows. Try em!
Paul Lonardo maybe I should. I adjust my sharpening as the DMT’s wear to take advantage of the change in finish.
@@michaelchristy4982ya I hear ya. Must be a good thing in a way since the scratch patterns get less and less aggressive. I went through several dmt's over time. The Duo sharp and diasharp. I do like them but after getting the atomas I haven't touched my dmt's and will never go back. The atomas are so consistent and just awesome I can't say enough good things about them. I hope you get to try them I think you will really like them and as they break in will like them even more. I think they will go with Kens 3k diamond and the Spyderco UF so well. And I think you will spend less time reprofiling. The 140 is real aggrsssive as you know but the 400 is just bad@$$ and really eats up metal and will be your go to for the start to your sharpening process. You may even get a set for free if you contact them, I'm.sure they would like to have you review them!
Paul Lonardo I’ve considered that. I may reach out to them.
Can anyone tell me a good glue for a strop?
Gotta ask, was that mineral oil you applied to the strops at 8:30?
T.S. S no, it was compound.
Hey Michael how are you? What's the grit of that spyderco ultrafine?
Israel Ducoing it’s listed as 3000 mesh, I believe.
@@michaelchristy4982 so what would be the difference between that one and a chosera 3000?
Israel Ducoing they cut differently. Two very different stones.
Are these stones available yet?
I share your reverence for SV90, Maxamet heads up the list with me with SV90 nipping at it's heels, I also enjoy 52100, the edge feels very similar to SV90 after sharpening.
Fred Spompinato 52100 and S90V are very different. How are you sharpening?
I'm using the factory edges on PM2's and 3's, and never cutting beyond the need to use the Spyderco super fine for sharpening and stropping on Basswood with diamond sprays at 1micron, .5micron, .25micron @@michaelchristy4982
Fred Spompinato well, you may want to get the diamond rods in there at some point, but good for you. Keep those knives sharp.
Michael Christy thanks for advice, you have been the sole inspiration for my sharpening, which diamond rods are you referring, and would you use them before the superfine or instead of the superfine, or after the superfine?
Fred Spompinato Spyderco sells diamond rods for the Sharp Maker. You can get them on Amazon. They’ll remove the fatigued steel that will eventually build up on your edge. They’re very coarse though. Go slow with them.
What's the price gonna be just for one stone?
CB metalworks I don’t have any idea. I can’t even guarantee they’re going to put them out, but I hope they do.
Have you tried the naniwa diamond waterstones? Hopefully when these new ones come out with the Michael Christy stamp on it they are a little less expensive than the naniwa ones. They also look like they have twice the diamond/waterstone layer than the naniwa. I think the naniwa ones have 1mm
Paul Lonardo these are vitrified, I guarantee you they will be more money than those naniwa
Paul Lonardo I have tried the Naniwa diamond water stones. These are much better.
@@michaelchristy4982 oh nice. Hopefully they are available. Btw I got the 3k diamond stone from Ken. Its awesome. Very consistent and not contaminated with bigger stones like dmt. I finally was able to get a knife to come straight off the stone and not have a burr that I could see by eye. I finished my custom 4v hunting knife on it and started my strops and its crazy sharp. I got it whittling hair already but only at the first 1inch from the tip. So I have to go back to my coarsest strop and do the rest of the edge more, I think I still have a crazy tiny burr that I can barely see even with my 40x loop. But its there. I'm getting pretty good bro! Your videos have helped alot. I wish you made a legit full video second for second from start to end including strops. It would be long I'm sure but there are a couple things I'm unsure about. Like do you spent 1 minute on your first strop after the spyderco UF or are you spending 30 mins getting the burr gone. Ill get it someday...I'm getting sooo close to getting an edge like you!
Paul Lonardo I’m glad you’re finding good progress. I have several videos that are full sharpenings with no cuts. Just look through the videos.
@@michaelchristy4982 oh great I will! One of my problems is when I use the spyderco uf as you know you can't just go super light and single strokes you have to scrub like you do in your videos so you get the full polish. But in doing that I get a real thick burr again and I have a hard time getting the burr to go away on the UF unlike on the diamond stones I can get it basically gone. I think it's because of the feel of diamonds and the sound I know when I am at the right angle. But the UF its hard. I haven't mastered the ambidextrous sharpening like you so I know on my strokes coming towards me that I am right on but my away strokes is kind of just guessing. I guess I have to work on my left hand so I can make sure I am where I need to be. Maybe that's my issue and it will solve itself once I can do that. Anyways I'm gonna watch some more of.your videos, thanks again for all you do bro. Your my go to sharpening pro when I need help lol.
I hate my Benchmade 940-1 in S90v. I can't sharpen it for shit. All my other steels get shaving sharp. I have no problem with my knives in m390, 35, 30, 154, D2, 440C...... I struggle with that S90v! I primarily use spiderco sharpmaker up to ultrafine then finish on a strop. Do I need diamond stones?
ShinkleGunDog yes, you should use diamond stones for S90V.
@@michaelchristy4982 thanks! Any specific brands you can recommend?
ShinkleGunDog I like DMT. Atoma plates are supposed to be good. Practical Sharpenings vitrified diamond waterstones are great.
Your Sharpmaker might not match the 940’s edge angle. Probably hitting the shoulder. My 940-1 initially had an uneven grind, one side was close to 27 degrees! I reprofiled it and can use the Sharpmaker for touch ups now but honestly don’t use it much anymore.
I kind of wish I HADN’T joined the pass around for these stones. I just got my Venev stones and got these in the mail today.. they leave them the venev in the dust lol fuck.. It’s kind of scary how fast these cut. I can’t justify the price of these though. It’s my only saving grace.
Ever try Japanese Natural Stones ??
Anthony Esposito nope.
@@michaelchristy4982 I was just curious, I actually don't see an advantage for knifes, it's not like cardboard or paper can tell you how comfortable the cut was !! BAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
Why vitrified over metallic bonded?
Hi Dude they’re better at apex formation. And I generally find them nicer to use, which is subjective, but whatever.
Micheal What glue do you use on your strops ?
little woody lol, I couldn’t say.
Sorry mike I must have you confused with someone elsa . About glueing down the leather for homemade strop .
little woody there’s some information I don’t give out. How I make strops is one of those subjects.
@@michaelchristy4982 lol. yeah wouldnt want to help anyone in need either way to be a tool
I wouldn't mind a set of those stones, is there pre order deal or kickstarter campaign?
Jordan Steffanson not that I know of yet, but I’ll let Practical Sharpening know that people are asking.
Yes, where is the pre order? I would love to get a set of these.
rocketboyty keep in mind, these are prototypes. I’m not sure how long it’ll be until these come out.
I would consider these as long as the price isn't in the hundreds.
matt peter I don’t have any idea of the price, but I doubt they’ll be inexpensive.
@@michaelchristy4982 Thanks for the review !
What stones or system would you recommend for someone to learn on??
TruckGuyHD92 I would recommend buying an Opinel (about $13 on Amazon) or a Byrd Spyderco and practicing on different stones. Different stones will give different results. You may like some and not like others. Get a feel for sharpening. It’ll grow on it’s own if you’re into it.
You could also pick up a Lansky for pretty cheap to start, but freehand is the way to go, if not at first, then eventually.
@@michaelchristy4982 I thought about getting work sharp guided system or maybe the spyderco stone set the medium fine and extra fine. I figured I'd ask if there were any you would suggest or brands you would recommend?
TruckGuyHD92 what steels are you using?
@@michaelchristy4982 I currently have a Kershaw knockout in m390, spyderco pm2 in s35vn, couple benchmades in s30v. A 940 in 20cv, delica in vg10, got a couple in 8cr mov, 14cr28mov, 42 hc buck knives. Currently thinking about picking up a manix2 in 52100 and maybe endera hap 40. But need to get sharper first. My thought process is I want to have all kind of steels to play with. Prefer stainless steel tho. I don't like when my knives rust
TruckGuyHD92 if you don’t like rust then stay away from 52100.
Any idea of the cost
bp69 not at all. We’ll have to wait and see.
If these are under 250 or 275 these may be some of the best stones on the market besides bbbs customs
Michael Christy - Hey man, been watching your channel for some time now and love your stuff. Listen, I know you typically review the most cutting edge and rather esoteric sharpening equipment, but I’d like to make a request. Albeit rather silly I know, but I would really like to know what kind of results someone with your level of skill in sharpening could get on something like this cheap 4-sided diamond sharpening stone from harbor freight? I was wondering if you could do a video on it, or even the set of 3 diamond sharpeners from harbor freight as well? I will try to add the links to my comment, not sure if CZcams will block them or not:
4-sided diamond sharpener: www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-diamond-hone-block-92867.html
Set of 3 diamond stones: www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-2-inch-x-6-inch-diamond-hone-blocks-36799.html
Just in case you’re not familiar with harbor freight, they generally always send out 20%off coupons in the mail with your local supermarket fliers for the week. So the 4-sided stone can be had for about $10 and the set of 3 can be bought for about $8 with the coupon. I’d love to know what someone with your skill could achieve off of what are probably some of the cheapest diamond stones on the market. Thanks brother!
Dan Schwemin Jr interesting idea. Maybe I’ll look into them.
Hey btw- what's with that weird wrist twitching thing you always seems to do 11:10 in nearly all your videos? Not gonna lie, it looks kinda goofy/O.C.D. Lol
Dan Schwemin Jr it’s not a twitch. I can feel when the bevel hits flush on the stone if I move the knife fast.
Oh ok! That makes a lot more sense then. =). Rock on man!
Hydraulic lock is a good sign of flatness
Aluminum backed?
is172008 I believe so. Some kind of metallic backing. Again, these are prototypes.
too bad every vitrified diamond waterstone ive seen is like 450 bucks, I guess ill stick with venev
Why continue after 3k if you're doing a TRUE REVIEW of the stones? Taking that blade to an UF and strops defeats the initial review. Most people using knives are looking for a working edge, which numerous people complete on 1k-3k. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything scientific to validate the claim on apex formation differences between any of these stones used under 3k, when running every knife to less than a micron strop in most cases.
A handful of sharpeners are cranking out hair whittling edges on Spyderco Medium Whetstones on youtube...
Sean Preston well, I was trying to show the full potential of the stones, which comes with them being part of a progression. So I disagree, it doesn’t defeat the initial review. Instead, it shows how well they can be applied to a larger picture. But maybe you have a point. Maybe I could have shown the finish left as I moved through the progression.
I’ll stand behind my claim about apex formation. If you want to argue because you don’t believe me, don’t watch.
And what sharpeners are putting out videos of hair whittling off the Spyderco Medium? I’d like to check them out. What are their names? What angles are they working at? What steels? How much edge longevity?
Michael Christy when I get home from work I will shoot you the links. I didn’t mean to be argumentative, I just feel like every knife you sharpen is insanely sharp because of your experience, and stopping at 3k on both these stones and comparable stones would show the difference in apex formation, scratch patterns, tear out, etc.
Sean Preston well like I said, the scratch pattern might be relevant, or at least worth showing. But to me, 3K isn’t a finishing stone. Not in a diamond plate or ceramics or waterstones.... Why would I present these being used in a way that I feel is the wrong use.
Sure, I guess there’s a place to compare 3K’s to one another and pose an argument about whose 3K is the most 3K, but to me it makes more sense to show the strength of the products to the highest degree that I can. Isn’t the full potential of a given product what the sharpening community is going to be concerned with at the end of the day?
@@michaelchristy4982 So as you asked for, the following is OUTDOORS55 reviewing the Spyderco Medium Whetstone and at the end does a few burr removal strokes on a rough strop and whittles a hair ( czcams.com/video/7szFTB1rF4A/video.html&frags=pl%2Cwn ).He has a few other videos like this. A few other examples of simple hair whittling edges would be jdavis on a Sharpmaker ( czcams.com/video/-MHe_8wTHmg/video.html ), and Caffeine Junkie on a medium Sharpmaker stone ( czcams.com/video/Klewt5KkHrQ/video.html&frags=pl%2Cwn ).
The reason I said 3k is a working edge is based on real world sharpening/use. Most commonplace field-use combination stones for outdoorsmen are usually a course/fine, with the fine being approximately 1500-1800 grit at most, maybe 2k on nicer ones. Professional wood workers often sharpen tools to 1200-1500 grit plus heavy pressure stropping such as Paul Sellers ( czcams.com/video/Ki8tt-VjwqI/video.html&frags=pl%2Cwn ).
I would be curious to see what you could do with a Spyderco Double Stuff and a single strop. With your ability, I think you could demonstrate some scary sharp edges, which would be useful to someone who hunts, fishes, etc, and touches up their knives in the field.
One last individual to check out is Lance, a professional fisherman who beats up knives in salt water. He touches up a non-hair shaving knife in 20 strokes on a Medium to shaving arm hair easily ( czcams.com/video/DGnOnAtwSNw/video.html&frags=pl%2Cwn ). He has a unique view of steels as he is in a different environment then most (dulls S90v in a couple days due to salt environment).
@@seanp1129 I've whittled a hair straight off the 325 grit CBN side of a $15 worksharp combo sharpener with no stropping, although I can't always replicate it. That means nothing. I think Mike did a good review of these stones, especially considering his views and approach to sharpening.
What makes it a cutting edge technology? There's nothing cutting edge about it mate, they've been using these same abrasives in industrial applications for a long time. Trying to turn it into a consumer product where it's in the form factor of a whetstone doesn't suddenly make it a cutting edge technology. Norton for instance has been selling vitrified and other sorts of bonded diamond "super abrasives" for years. So does every other industrial company in the abrasives game, and not just in the US and Japan, there are companies all over the world that have been producing abrasives identical to these for a long time. The only thing novel or new here is trying to turn it into a consumer product in the form of a whetstone. That was never done before before basically there was no market for it and need to create a market for it.. most knives before edc bros got sold on the whole "steel makes a knife" logic used steels that were easily machined. You'd never a consumer/mass market knife made out of something like 10v until fairly recently.