How to Make a Surfboard from Scratch - From Start to Finish

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  • čas přidán 25. 09. 2018
  • I made whole series of videos on how to scratch build a surfboard from XPS construction foam. I took all the footage and complied it into one video and included some commentary. The surfboard is an egg shaped board with glass on fins, hope you enjoy it.
    Here is where I buy most of my surf supplies and link to useful templates (Click on "How to Build a Surfboard"):
    greenlightsurfsupply.com/andreww
    Great guys to deal with and the affiliate link helps me build the channel, I get a small percentage of the sale but it costs you nothing though!
    If you want more detail on how to build this XPS surfboard check out the whole series here:
    • How to Make an XPS Sur...
    Also here is a previous build series as well for a retro single fin style surfboard:
    • How to Scratch Build a...
    Wooden Surfboard Build Video Series:
    • How to Make a Chambere...
    Some of the tools I use to make surfboards:
    The Amazon affiliate links help me build the channel and I get a small percentage of the sale but it costs you nothing!
    If you get one tool this is the one Stanley Surfoam - amzn.to/2D9jfCv
    Rockwell Oscillating Multi-Tool (Love this tool) - amzn.to/2SUw35c
    Dremel Rotary Tool - amzn.to/2ASMxE4
    Makita KP0800K 3-1/4-Inch Planer Kit - amzn.to/2TCulth
    Makita Compact router - amzn.to/2EOkHws
    Makita BO5041K 5-Inch Random Orbit Sander Kit - amzn.to/2IPWkAt
    Dewalt Cutout tool - amzn.to/2D800sW
    Dewalt palm sander - amzn.to/2OtgGxa
    Spokeshave - amzn.to/2F9t1qK
    RZ Dust/Pollution Mask - amzn.to/2SkaMV4
    3M Half Mask Respirator - amzn.to/2T18TJi
    This is an awesome sander/polisher - amzn.to/2JLacJ6
    or this amzn.to/2PIVTKG
    Instagram:
    / therealandreww
    Check out my merch! (Clothes, Stickers, Mugs)
    andreww.myspreadshop.ca/
    Website to get free surfboard templates or a custom one made (not affiliated): www.blendingcurves.com/
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Camera Gear I Use to Make Videos:
    Sony A6500 - amzn.to/2Lzz73i
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    Lens:
    Canon EF-S 10-18mm - amzn.to/2D4sKUt
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    Canon EF-S 24mm - amzn.to/2yAlj3t
  • Jak na to + styl

Komentáře • 133

  • @PILrecords
    @PILrecords Před 3 lety +15

    Andrew, it's almost been 2 years since I started my build and due to personal events it got postponed multiple times. But I finally finished it about 1/2 weeks ago. I took out it yesterday and was pleasantly surprised how responsive it was! It's shape is absolutely hilarious, I didn't follow any shape and just freewheeled it because I was in it for the experience and learning. It's something only a mother could love, lol. I'd like to thank you through this comment to say I still follow every video you post and will continue to do so; I'm going to make more boards for sure! Thanks a lot for your videos, they're super helpful! Cheers, Sam

  • @fpvwithme
    @fpvwithme Před 3 lety +5

    I just finished my first longboard build from scratch and I want to thank you Andrew for all your help.

  • @JusticeConstantine
    @JusticeConstantine Před 5 lety +9

    Thank you for making this condensed version of your series.

  • @dankintx
    @dankintx Před 5 lety +5

    Very smart btw to condense the overall process quickly - I spent time to go through all your old videos - but the project timeline was confusing... this really helps!!!!

  • @kampolG
    @kampolG Před 5 lety +16

    Andrew, Just wanna say thank you for all your videos. I finally made my own foam core skimboard which works amazing. If I could find high density foam blank in my country I will try to make longboard next. Cheers!

  • @cruss9064
    @cruss9064 Před 2 lety

    "please consider subscribing"... imagine, a youtuber asking instead of demanding! this is my winter project for sure. thanks so much for the laid back video and insight to high qulity homemade surfboard building techniques!

  • @I_am_very_bored____
    @I_am_very_bored____ Před měsícem

    Your videos are very helpful
    Thanks for making them

  • @b5a5m5
    @b5a5m5 Před 2 lety

    I know this video is from a bit back but you're absolutely correct at 12:04
    The reason for this is that resin releases heat energy when it cures, and the higher the temperature of the resin the faster it will cure. This can result in a positive feed back loop of resin cures which releases heat which increases the temperature of the resin which makes resin cure faster which releases more heat etc etc causing thermal runaway and you'll cook the resin.
    The act of pouring it out will dramatically increase the surface area to which the resin is exposed to air, which allows for the resin to give its heat to the cooler air and stay at room temperature.

  • @RTKruse
    @RTKruse Před 5 lety +2

    Awesome video Andrew!!! Thanks for spending so much time putting these vids together. Great detail!

  • @radoslawkmieckowiak8691
    @radoslawkmieckowiak8691 Před 5 lety +2

    Good job! It's nice that you have told everything clearly. Thumb up!

  • @suzukiton
    @suzukiton Před 3 lety +1

    fantastic level of detail here really appreciate it, thank you !!

  • @fishmut
    @fishmut Před 5 lety +1

    Wow love this so much, always had a dream to make a surf board and never got to do one, this inspires me to have a go even if it came out a fraction of the quality I’d be a very happy chap.

  • @lorenzocanlas5253
    @lorenzocanlas5253 Před 3 lety +1

    Thanks Andrew for your videos! You convinced me that I can do this!

  • @Mikefngarage
    @Mikefngarage Před 3 lety

    wow that video took some work to make Good job

  • @jameshallfishing3377
    @jameshallfishing3377 Před 4 lety +1

    What a beautiful board

  • @1MrBoss29
    @1MrBoss29 Před 8 měsíci

    This is a great video. Thank you for the post.

  • @alisonchen4583
    @alisonchen4583 Před rokem

    I give it a thumbs up here,thank you

  • @CrapuleScred
    @CrapuleScred Před 5 lety +2

    Thanks again, cheers from France.

  • @clintonbegley
    @clintonbegley Před 3 lety

    Awesome! Really helps to see the whole process start to finish

  • @rickricardo8731
    @rickricardo8731 Před 4 lety +2

    Always wonder how they did it thanks nice vid ,that's cool surfing on your own board best feeling for sure😁

  • @1royalwolf
    @1royalwolf Před 3 lety +1

    This video was awesome. Almost had me convinced that I could make my own board, but there are some real skills and techniques required here that not many poses I think. Either way, loved watching the process🤙

  • @budbudbuilds
    @budbudbuilds Před rokem +1

    Such a great video you really inspired me I’ll be making my own and I’ll be documenting it also. Such great craftsmanship I’ll be so happy if I can get it looking half as nice as yours.

  • @NeoNorth
    @NeoNorth Před 3 lety +3

    brother you are really talented! Appreciate you sharing your talent and teaching ability with the community. Liked and subscribed

  • @patmaher5353
    @patmaher5353 Před 3 lety

    thanks for this, looking forward to making my own board

  • @usmarine3265
    @usmarine3265 Před 4 lety +2

    Impressive!!! I learned so much. Kinda like painting a car in a way. Very detailed and a great video

  • @mikedmann7487
    @mikedmann7487 Před 2 lety

    hack a day sent me here and i really enjoyed watching... Thankz...

  • @Crifstar
    @Crifstar Před 5 lety +1

    I love it and I want to give it a shot

  • @JesperLauOlesen
    @JesperLauOlesen Před 3 lety

    Love your videos Andrews 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

  • @dannggg
    @dannggg Před 3 lety

    Awesome video!!

  • @robk.5467
    @robk.5467 Před 5 lety +2

    Man I'm glad I watched this...I dont remember seeing you square up the edges of the blank with the hot wire cutter in the original build series. I'm starting my build next weekend. I was wondering about that little detail. I figured I would get away with doing a rip n flip on my table saw to get clean blank edges, and then halve the thing lengthwise. Not even sure if I can get away with using the table saw (general purpose blade) on xps to begin with.

  • @richardhummel4582
    @richardhummel4582 Před 2 lety

    Wow Andrew thanks you threw the cards on the table the way that I need them to be I donated and I appreciate you throwing everything out of the way you did you were a big help and you made a big decision or help me make a big decision in my Pursuit after making surfboards thank you so much God bless

  • @richardhummel4582
    @richardhummel4582 Před 2 lety

    Thanks!

  • @hesperianwines5768
    @hesperianwines5768 Před 3 lety

    well done. I have been looing for examples of laminated XPS for building a drift boat. It is hard to believe but there are few on You Tube using laminated XPS construction foam and epoxy /glass laminates and the few that are there are super rough. Ill be using some things i learned from your vidoes. Thanks

  • @krishnansrinivasan830
    @krishnansrinivasan830 Před 3 lety

    Awesome & Thanks :)

  • @josephdoran2277
    @josephdoran2277 Před 5 lety +42

    What was the total amount of time it took you to finish that board?
    Great work on the deck though man! Love the pink panther touch!

  • @moral64
    @moral64 Před 3 lety

    Awesome! Thanks for sharing I build RC planes and it's very similar . I will build my own too. Thanks again!

  • @EricF647
    @EricF647 Před 5 lety +1

    awesome

  • @jasoncarl5026
    @jasoncarl5026 Před 5 lety +3

    Andrew W... you totally inspired me to make a longboard & I really enjoy watching all your videos! I am at the final stages of making my board... it is a 9'8" board... I need to wash the paint & glass it & do the final polishing. One of the biggest differences was the foam... I used XPS from Lowes (it was a bluish green color). Everything seems VERY solid so far. I made SO many mistakes along the way... but with every challenge, I learned something & overcame it with some creative ideas. Initially I tried a foam board glue/caulk but failed miserably. I went with Gorilla glue.. there really is no substitute for it.. it worked fantastic. Also, the rasp for shaping was vital. I could not imagine not using it. I wish I knew where to buy epoxy resin cheap(er) online than some of the sources out there, as that seemed to be the biggest expense in the process. ($125 for 1.5gal resin kit). I also did not have an easy source of wood for the stringer in the length I needed so I went with Pine for the stringer. I have already glued more foam sheets together to make another board for my kids. This will be a smaller 8' stringer less board with 4 oz fiberglass. I used 6oz for the longboard. some other noticeable differences. 1st timers: don't do cut laps.. do free laps. I tried a cut lap my first time.. FAILED MISERABLY! The tape came off all the way around the board & it made a HUGE mess. And it was quality tape too (3M) Also, I used paint brushes rather than a roller for painting... I'm hoping the hairline brush strokes will provide some additional surface area for the final glass coat to adhere. I plan to wash with a VERY fine soapy steel wool to add microscope scratches in the paint's surface for even more adhesion surface. Also, I had an idea for a DIY vented leash plug that I wanted to run by you... I wish I had your email so I can share some pics with you of my almost complete longboard! ~ Jason

    • @gorila1958
      @gorila1958 Před 3 lety

      What was your resin mixture? What is it ?
      So I dont buy the wrong type that melts the Foam ?

  • @christopherhauptman8672
    @christopherhauptman8672 Před 4 lety +1

    Honestly thank you so much I was looking for videos like this for a long time. You’re the best! I wanted to ask you, do you have a link to a great tutorial on how to build that hot wire foam cutter? It must make life much easier.

  • @craigschroder3171
    @craigschroder3171 Před 3 lety

    This was helpful for me to find a DIY way of creating a custom car GT rear wing. Going to be using the same materials and techniques except with a final auto paint finish

  • @josephshoemate9933
    @josephshoemate9933 Před 3 lety

    Watched in 2x. So good.

  • @simetime6045
    @simetime6045 Před 3 lety

    amaizing

  • @robertoesposito9081
    @robertoesposito9081 Před 3 lety

    Bravo!!! 🤙🤙🤙

  • @KristonReidDigitalCreative

    Great video I’m off to selco

  • @alainvosselman9960
    @alainvosselman9960 Před 8 měsíci

    I am considering making a diy board. Nube surfer here and kinda getting stoked about the sport and the craft of shaping. Thank you very much, you made the whole process crystal clear. I was impressed with the glue-on fins which seems like an ideal way to work for a beginner rather than placing finboxes. If that goes wrong it might screw up the whole process. I am wondering what hot coating means ?

  • @PILrecords
    @PILrecords Před 5 lety +4

    Awesome, thanks for sharing this! I'm going to check to start building my own first board. Who knows how it'll turn out hehe

    • @zacharywiebe9722
      @zacharywiebe9722 Před 4 lety

      Did you make one?

    • @PILrecords
      @PILrecords Před 4 lety

      @@zacharywiebe9722 Well.. I actually did start to make one but it's just the shape. Still needs to be finetuned before I can start on the rails/tail followed by the glassing process. But I've had too much work in my personal life (moved out from my parents where my shape is at) and I'm looking to move again this year, so I don't think it's going to be any time soon. I do however intend to finish it somewhere in the future haha. Your video did help me a great deal already! And I'd like to thank you for that! :D I'd recommend it to anyone who would like to build one, and when I continue my build I'll still use yours hehe, cheers mate!

    • @PILrecords
      @PILrecords Před 3 lety +1

      @@zacharywiebe9722 I finally finished it two weeks ago! It's something only a mother could love, a lot of mistakes were made but I learned a lot; and to top it off it actually surfs! Went out yesterday and was actually surpised how responsive it was! I'm really excited about it and I will be making a new one soon. I sure never thought I'd be able to pull it off. It's everything but perfect and looks funny but damn, it actually shreds. Lol

    • @zacharywiebe9722
      @zacharywiebe9722 Před 3 lety

      @@PILrecords that’s super cool, looks don’t matter if it shreds right lol. It’s hard to make a surfboard that shreds on your first attempt so that’s awesome!

  • @addisonballard6348
    @addisonballard6348 Před 3 lety

    Excellent videos!! Thanks Andrew! I'm a first time board maker. Followed these videos as much as possible. The board surfed well but developed air pockets between the foam and fiberglass when laying in the sun. I used a vented leash plug...any thought or suggestions??

  • @fabioprb3538
    @fabioprb3538 Před 4 lety

    Fine, well done. I wouldn't apply the final hot-coat while prefer to use an acrylic hi-gloss transparent (airless spry) finish instead. This after the pen-line to protect the graphic. But these are just details. Cheers f

  • @RenatoYamamoto481
    @RenatoYamamoto481 Před 3 lety

    i loved your shirt

  • @zip7806
    @zip7806 Před 3 lety

    Please do a video about... what looks like paddling cross training weights on your wall.

  • @FXHazardproductions
    @FXHazardproductions Před 4 lety +2

    So after the hot coat you sand it again and wet grinding makes sure those colors you painted underneath come back again? Love your board. In my country we can only really kiteboard. No waves but still gonna take on this project:)

  • @NeilMd92
    @NeilMd92 Před 5 lety +1

    What paint do you use and also for the leash plug what glue is that? Thanks man love this gonna build one soon

  • @jacksonreynolds3667
    @jacksonreynolds3667 Před 4 lety +1

    Thanks for this! Very helpful. How much would you say it cost to build this exact board?

  • @markk717
    @markk717 Před 3 lety

    Great Video. How do you avoid cutting through the bottom layer of fibre glass when doing the second cut lap. It seems to me that you need to cut through the top layer, but you would not want to cut through to the foam on the second joint.

  • @andrewcarrasco4405
    @andrewcarrasco4405 Před 4 lety +11

    Hey Andrew, thanks for making this video! What was the cost for the fiberglass and epoxy? And how much did you need?

  • @Ed-ty1kr
    @Ed-ty1kr Před 2 lety

    Man... there sure are alot of things made from scratch. Makes me wonder where can I get my hands on some... 🤔

  • @troywilliams6291
    @troywilliams6291 Před 2 lety +1

    Well done, informative! Approximately what do you think the overall cost was for this build?

  • @bradhull1995
    @bradhull1995 Před 3 lety

    I have the same shirt from point rayes

  • @aysuncodes
    @aysuncodes Před 3 lety

    i love your surfing suit. Can you give a link?

  • @bitsurfer0101
    @bitsurfer0101 Před 4 lety

    Have you tried 3D printing the fins out of something like a carbon fibre filament?

  • @KingFillip
    @KingFillip Před 5 lety

    Change the geometry of the rails. It will change the handling. Make the back three feet with hard short board style rails.

  • @EricsBBQAndMORE
    @EricsBBQAndMORE Před 4 lety

    Can you make a smaller wake surf board?

  • @anthonybanks3718
    @anthonybanks3718 Před 3 lety

    I am making a skim board and I would like to know how many layers of glass I should use. I am also using carbon fiber cloth on the tailed and in down the center

  • @toniachetwood8887
    @toniachetwood8887 Před rokem

    Love your videos, I am about to embark on a hollow wooden board build which is terrifiying me. But before I do that I was wondering if you knew the answer to this question. Is it possible to re shape a foamie surfboard by shaving off the foam to slim down the rails a bit and still keep it foam, or would it then need glassing and new fin placement?

  • @gorila1958
    @gorila1958 Před 3 lety +1

    What was the mixture of Glass resin you used to cover the board ? That doesn't eat the Foam ?

  • @matthewspindler2665
    @matthewspindler2665 Před 3 lety

    Im curious bout the approximate cost to build the board definetly in the market to buy a board but id love to build my own for the ability to give it an awesome custom paint job

  • @harperwc
    @harperwc Před 4 lety +1

    what kind of epoxy do you use for pink foam ?

  • @jacobturner2759
    @jacobturner2759 Před 5 lety

    Is the smalller ounce stronger

  • @user-xy2vs3lz6r
    @user-xy2vs3lz6r Před 5 lety +1

    🔥🔥🔥👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

  • @hg1651
    @hg1651 Před 2 lety

    My man, hope all is well. Quick question: have you tried using a graphite guide coat for sanding ?

  • @alexa-nd6fe
    @alexa-nd6fe Před 3 lety

    How do you hotcoat over the paint and dont mess it up?

  • @josephbreen6922
    @josephbreen6922 Před 4 lety

    I have an old soft surfboard that I don't use. I was wondering if you think i could cut it open, and use it as a template for a hard board. Let me know if you think this might work, thanks!

  • @iancrawford4977
    @iancrawford4977 Před 4 lety

    Would a laminated wood stringer be better? Or just unnecessary

  • @ecomarinebd
    @ecomarinebd Před 11 měsíci

    You said house paints can work as glue for EPS sheets. Can you please specify what type? Thanks.

  • @BillyTzENDURO
    @BillyTzENDURO Před 3 lety

    Extremely interesting! thanks for the vid.
    I just bought my first board, but since I'm a maker it's only a matter of time till I make my own! ;)

  • @TheWeirdSide1
    @TheWeirdSide1 Před 4 lety

    What's total weight with all that resin and heavy glass?

  • @joelgygi9086
    @joelgygi9086 Před 5 lety +1

    What is a hotcoat?

  • @lithe.susurrous661
    @lithe.susurrous661 Před 3 lety

    what tool are you using to sculpt the foam? is it some sort of file or sandpaper?

  • @starwarsrecut2723
    @starwarsrecut2723 Před 2 lety

    nice work... but do you have a second leash plug on the nose ? Why ?

  • @samuelbuick2908
    @samuelbuick2908 Před 4 lety

    How long did this take you from start to finish @AndrewW

  • @nandhiniashok4018
    @nandhiniashok4018 Před 3 lety +1

    You don't waste the epoxy at all. I have seen other channels where it just drips down. 😮

  • @ScrtAznMn
    @ScrtAznMn Před 3 lety

    What brand of paint are you using?

  • @DavidFekete-mz4ez
    @DavidFekete-mz4ez Před 2 měsíci

    hi. Dies anyone know what weight does the fibercloth has? I have choices from 23gr up to 400gr.

  • @briantrend1812
    @briantrend1812 Před 4 lety

    Andrew W can you please give us the names of the artists acrylic red and blue colors you use on both your bottom decks to such good effect. GREAT VIDEOS thankyou

    • @briantrend1812
      @briantrend1812 Před 4 lety

      Andrew W if the pinky foam cost $52 isn't it better to purchase a polyurethane foam blank and use cheaper polyester resin. In the Uk the money I would save using this pink insulation foam from Home Depo plus all the extra work plus extra cost of epoxy resin, it pays me to use polyurethane foam blanks and polyester resin. perhaps the polyurethane blanks are unavailable and far from your home? I'm lucky the surf place is 30 miles from my home but if you get them blanks posted they charge the cost of one blank £50 to send 2 blanks

  • @rumiloghmani3987
    @rumiloghmani3987 Před rokem

    how much did it end up costing you to build the surfboard? Only like including the parts of the board and whatnot not including tools

  • @CoDRuinedMyLife
    @CoDRuinedMyLife Před 4 lety

    how heavy is that thing

  • @behruzghahgharaee7959
    @behruzghahgharaee7959 Před 5 lety

    hello
    what exactly should say to stores when I want to buy this cloth? what kind of material does it have? any special name? thanks

    • @manuelm4815
      @manuelm4815 Před 5 lety

      behruz ghahgharae fiberglass cloth and whatever oz you want

  • @jacobturner2759
    @jacobturner2759 Před 5 lety +2

    Could I use a thicker stringer ? Thank you

    • @briantrend1812
      @briantrend1812 Před 4 lety

      yes, but think of the extra weight. you can use tape, mask on narrow lines and just paint on some light brown lines on each side of existing thin stringer

    • @briantrend1812
      @briantrend1812 Před 4 lety

      in the old days they used to cut the blank in many pieces and glue them with colourd resin making about 5 pin lines

  • @kenzhong484
    @kenzhong484 Před 3 lety

    Pls respond. What kind of paint did you use?

  • @zip7806
    @zip7806 Před 3 lety

    What kind of Paint? 2K or any Rustolium type?

  • @DineshSam
    @DineshSam Před 9 měsíci

    Ia this a soft top surfboard or hard top surfboard?

  • @junomarley-gunn4528
    @junomarley-gunn4528 Před 5 lety +2

    what glue did you use for gluing the stringer to the foam?

  • @kennethsoriano6530
    @kennethsoriano6530 Před 3 lety

    Umm what wood did use fr making a surfboard sir?

  • @brittvermote6463
    @brittvermote6463 Před 5 lety +1

    Sooooooo beautyfukl

  • @brandonbeavers4668
    @brandonbeavers4668 Před 2 lety

    What is the song at 21:00

  • @richardhummel4582
    @richardhummel4582 Před 2 lety

    Andrew could have used a little more information on the materials as in the epoxy that you used and the weight of the fiberglass and you might have thrown that in there I just might have missed it

  • @dankintx
    @dankintx Před 5 lety

    Sick!!!! Andrew - could you please explain what kind of paint you used (rolled on) as well as for the pinstripe? What kind? Water based I assume - link? Is there paint you can use that you could pick up at a home improvement store? Thanks so much!! You guided me through my first board that came out awesome!!!

    • @briantrend1812
      @briantrend1812 Před 4 lety

      dankintrix in this video he is using artists acrylic mixed with a little water and a roller then washes off clean after drying before glassing it .you can spray also but the roller Is easier if you don't want to set up the compressor and masking

  • @avawilson3057
    @avawilson3057 Před 5 lety

    I have a question. Is this easier to make than a wood one? And also, which one is easier to make? I’m asking this because I plan on making a surfboard for a school project and I can’t decide on what material to make it out of.

    • @manuelm4815
      @manuelm4815 Před 5 lety

      CuberKid W personally i think a wooden one requires wayyyy less steps but i prefer to surf a foam board

    • @briantrend1812
      @briantrend1812 Před 4 lety

      its much harder to make a wooden one trust me.

  • @ethanhood1503
    @ethanhood1503 Před 5 lety +22

    What is the cost for the materials

    • @peterpodesta6007
      @peterpodesta6007 Před 3 lety +1

      As a shaper working in a shop, you can make a “Home Depot” board for under $250, or make a high performance board for upwards of $400.

    • @e2U
      @e2U Před 3 lety

      @@peterpodesta6007 If you paid someone to do the work, what would it cast...

    • @peterpodesta6007
      @peterpodesta6007 Před 3 lety +1

      Haha @Jeff Thurb I shape customs boats for people from anywhere from $350-650. It’s all up to you.

    • @e2U
      @e2U Před 3 lety

      @@peterpodesta6007 do you use CAD-CAM software to shape, then a 7 axis CNC?

    • @peterpodesta6007
      @peterpodesta6007 Před 3 lety

      @@e2U I use cad to have them design a board, then everything is hand shaped. The only reason I don’t go straight to a CNC machine is that frankly I don’t trust regular shapers. This way I figure if your design has any underlying problems, as an experienced shaper I can fix them for you.

  • @damonvilla
    @damonvilla Před 4 lety +1

    What are the odds you make me a surfboard and film everything, the process of
    Making it, shipping it, my reaction and me surfing it😂 jk but this vid gets a thumbs up from me