The Gunung Padang Controversy & Why it Matters
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2024
- Gunung Padang is a megalith located on the island of Java, in Indonesia. Recently, it has attracted attention for not only being featured on Graham Hancock's Netflix show, Ancient Apocalypse, but also because a paper published in October of 2023 claims that it is 27,000 years old. But, is it really, and if it isn't, how do we know that?
Well, I've got a degree in cannabis Ancient Aliens studies,with a minor in microwave burrito techniques. And that looks like a landing pad for UFOs built by Atlanteans.😂
😄😄😄
You sir are truly cultured and a man of many talents
They were not UfO's to the Atlaneans. They totally knew what they were.
Okay this one brightened up my day.
Sounds legit.
I went to Gunung Padang a week ago and spoke directly to the person in charge there. The first thing we have to understand is that the local villagers there already knew about the existence of the mountain even before the Dutch expedition discovered it before the 1900s.
Local villagers there have since made the Gunung Padang site a place of worship and ritual there and are still active today. And indeed archaeologists agree that Mount Padang has long been a site for animist worship. When I went to the site, I even saw people doing strange worship like animism. local residents still consider the site "holy".
The main reason why Mount Padang was not excavated was because of cultural reasons. Local residents still actively use the site as a religious place. The second thing that we must understand is that the surface of the volcanic rock fragments on Mount Padang are the result of the work of people who came after them. that is, afterward people put new stones on top of a building again, whether for repair reasons or what, I don't know. Therefore, the government does not want to carry out excavations because it is afraid that the volcanic stone buildings above the surface will appear damaged.
This is my assumption, Mount Padang was first built by an ancient civilization, then several centuries later it was abandoned, then a new civilization came again who renovated it and added new volcanic rock on top of it. then disappeared again several centuries later. then it was rediscovered by people around the 12th-19th centuries and re-used as an animist place of worship. Then in the 20th century a Dutchman discovered the site in a condition where there were many wild trees around the site area. This can be used as evidence that Mount Padang was abandoned by previous civilizations, because if it were a "religious" place then there would never have been wild trees growing on it.
The only way to find out the "true history" of Gunung Padang is to carry out excavations. rather than us having a lot of pseudoscience debates that will never end.
Thank you for this great information! So how was your experience?
@@Nylon_riot the place is not as big as in many CZcams videos. then there are only volcanic rocks there. there are no written remains at all.
Your explaination is similiar with Dr. Ali. He also said that several civilization used that site
@@pummaandfriends509 I don't know who he is but he made a very relevant statement
This controversy has been around much longer than you think. I was in the circle of geology enthusiasts where this was first brought up in the late 2000s (pretty sure it was before 2010), and even then most geologists and archaeologists in Indonesia were extremely skeptical of the claims. It was actually government officials with no historical or archaeological training who first went and ran with the story since they thought it could boost tourism and regional prestige.
Sounds quite similar to the "Pyramid of the sun" in Bosnia. Tourism money can go a long ways towards perpetuating a myth indefinitely!
I visited this site in early 2020. It is fairly remote and the nearest city from which I stayed at had 0 other tourists. If there was an attempt to make it a tourism attraction it has mostly failed.
@@BeyondEcstasy Maybe not foreign tourists, but it was fairly popular with domestic ones some 10-12 years ago. I can easily believe if that's no longer the case within the last five years or so, though.
The current state of Indonesian archeology is undoubtedly concerning. From widespread pseudoscience to less than stellar working conditions, I can only wish it improves somewhat in the near future.
I don't think the Indonesians care
@hanque4684 If you are lucky, @TheOriginalDanEdwards will leave they/thems hot take for you to clean up, perhaps. Concur.
No, actually, Indosian archeologists have -- long before this article published -- signed a join statement protesting the fact that the researcher (a geologist, by the way, not an archeologist) dug with methods that is not acceptable in archeology standard. Indonesian archeologists also refuted the claim. What amaze me, is that this paper managed to be published! That is so weird.
@@verdiadhanta5195 " *That is so weird* "
It's the new norm. Learn to live with it.
@verdiadhanta5195 your short comment added a lot to my knowledge of this event. Thank you
Unfortunately being "first" or "oldest" holds a sense of prestige and majesty that many would like to claim for personal or national glory.
Especially to less stable or prosperous countries who haven't achieved very much in recent history
@@boozecruiser Every nation is equally guilty of that. This pathetic desire to be inherently better than others is ingrained in the mind of many fools across the globe.
Sheeesh dude 🗿🗿🗿 what a burn man@@boozecruiser
I'm Indonesian, and while I don't remember the exact name "Gunung Padang" I do remember a few years ago there was news about a mountain that was suspected to actually have been a super ancient pyramid. Even back then it sounded outlandish and every time a politician gushed about it I had to change the channel because it was so embarrassing to hear. The media buzz died not long after but I guess the people involved is still enamored with the idea.
But then again, one of the more popular book here was one that claimed that Indonesia was the Real Atlantis so I guess it's the kind of pseudoscience that local consumers love to eat up.
PS:Tiny nitpick but that's not how you spell padang.
Politicians getting involved is definitely a problem.
Not really surprised. In my country (Philippines), many people - most of them nationalists - believe that this country is the Biblical land of Ophir...
@@jackboomslang5646 It's always been a problem. Even the Romans were turning former prestigious Greek cities into modernesque tourist traps.
Well, the reason you feel this way is probably because you are not an Indonesian Hindu. You are most likely part of one of the recent religions that only came about 2000 years and feel that history cannot be older than 4000 years ago. I can understand how even a hint of archaeological sites older than your religion can cause you such discomfort.
@@ecneicsPhD4554 lol what does religion has anything to do with it? I have no problem with with Borobudur or Muara Takus or any other Hindu-Buddhist Candis. The problem with Gunung Padang is that outrageous claims requires outrageous evidence, and the claim that Gunung Padang is actually a super ancient pyramid is an extremely outrageous claim with little evidence to support it.
It sounds like the obvious thing to do is conduct more tests all over the site to gain a better understanding of it.
That seems like something everyone should be able to agree on.
Huh. I'm Indonesian and this is litteraly the first time i heard about this mountain(or "gunung" it literraly just an indonesian for mountain) let alone the controversy.
Judging by the comment it seems i was not the first Indonesian though
how old are you? it was a big news back in the day. even the president himself (SBY) visited the site.
U're living under a rock, obviously
There was a point in this video where you firmly stated the age of the megalith site at the younger date. I wish you had said "it appears" or "all evidence points to" or "with high probability" because that is the best we can do if we are intellectually honest. My understanding is there may be multiple stages to the construction...or maybe not
the local called it not just Gunung Padang. but Punden Berundak Gunung Padang and it's not like the pyramid on Egypt and not created by stacking only stone. it's a bit hard to explain, some of them similar to what you see in machu picchu some of them really like stepped pyramid but combined with with natural hill. here i will give other example of punden berundak in Indonesia:
1. Punden Berundak/Ancient Stepped Pyramid Arca Domas czcams.com/video/XkS-SB1vppU/video.html and this one more detailed what is it in each Terraces czcams.com/video/-uaT8GLI1xA/video.html [use english auto translate to watch this] looks like miniature of Gunung Padang and it have 5 terraces
2. Lebak Sibedug czcams.com/video/59vkwfi9Iao/video.html
3. Lemah Wangi banyumas czcams.com/video/MsXw4LVCk60/video.html , czcams.com/video/4MRHstyJliY/video.html
4. Pangguyangan czcams.com/video/jLpn5zJ3oZo/video.html
5. Pasir Lulumpang czcams.com/video/c1Ez1I2I5Ro/video.html
6. Candi Ketek czcams.com/video/M7bE3mDrY7M/video.html
7. Situs Selogending Lumajang.czcams.com/video/idFP6xq2VoU/video.html , czcams.com/video/xNo3mZvuFAY/video.html , Back Side of the main Stepped Pyramid Situs Selo Gending czcams.com/video/VR9V-CFQYj4/video.html , the latest Renovation of SItus Selogending added 2 Dragon King on RIght and Left Side of the Ladder czcams.com/video/77JTDcOp-EY/video.html
8. Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik czcams.com/video/wdmcTeOeY1g/video.html each terraces wide is 100M Near the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik , they found Fossil of Ancient Elephant from 900.000 years ago czcams.com/video/AYEM1B5NH1s/video.html and czcams.com/video/iWy8joCbAMY/video.html and more Fossil is found czcams.com/video/Kd7Wq_GjYGY/video.html they also found fossil of Ancient Hippopotamus czcams.com/video/HVBvbcFxAxA/video.html that has similar age to the Ancient Elephant the previously found, Ancient Babi Rusa/Babyrousa[that was believed has extinct since 35 million years ago in European], Ancient Kancil/Mouse Deer[that is called living fossil because it only changed a little since 34 Millions years ago]. All those are the Diets/ Food they eat and this proofed the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik is more Older and more Primitively made than Ancient Stepped Pyramid Gunung Padang, it's already there since around hundred thousands years ago. Maybe Java Man or Homo Erectus is the one who create this and they to become the Pioneer of this Punden Berundak / Ancient Stepped Pyramid.
9. Ancient Stepped Pyramid TOba czcams.com/video/t02i6Wpw6JE/video.html and czcams.com/video/jEiPBS9228I/video.html ancient altar with primitive letters.
a pyramid? no, that's like calling a hill fort a pyramid.
tyvm for another upload
🦩🇨🇦😁
Thank you for another careful analysis. Helping people learn how to evaluate the trustworthiness of a claim (its source, the evidence, and peer review) is as important as always. Please do try not to be too distracted from your larger presentations; you could be tilting at windmills if you get into debunking all the misinformation floating around. :)
Nationalism, unfortunately, plays a huge role in this. I think it would help if there was a requirement for international teams to independently verify the dating.
Scientists are human beings. Everyone has a bias. Nobody is truly objective. A scientist who comes from a nation state that is obsessed with improving their image, is just easier to identify.
Radio-carbon dating has a fundamental flaw: the squatter dilemma. Samples at a site would be from the last people who lived at the site; not necessarily those who built it.
The typical goal is to sample from underneath, or within, the lowest level of a site. Drilling past all proven layers of human activity and taking a date is just proving the date of organic material.
It's a problem for the peer review process. Although in some respects it's a testament to academic rigour. The paper contained some poor research which was uncovered by other academics who then critiqued it in the proper way. It's now been withdrawn leaving the authors with a severe credibility issue. If they follow the example of certain climate scientists whose work was exposed as deeply flawed when fact-checked they will start appearing on CZcams channels repeating their debunked claims to audiences which lack the capacity for critical thinking.
The Gunung Padang brought the artificial islands of, Pohnpei to my mind.
Here is More Ancient Stepped Pyramid in Indonesia:
1. Punden Berundak/Ancient Stepped Pyramid Arca Domas czcams.com/video/XkS-SB1vppU/video.html and this one more detailed what is it in each Terraces czcams.com/video/-uaT8GLI1xA/video.html [use english auto translate to watch this] looks like miniature of Gunung Padang and it have 5 terraces
2. Lebak Sibedug czcams.com/video/59vkwfi9Iao/video.html
3. Lemah Wangi banyumas czcams.com/video/MsXw4LVCk60/video.html , czcams.com/video/4MRHstyJliY/video.html
4. Pangguyangan czcams.com/video/jLpn5zJ3oZo/video.html
5. Pasir Lulumpang czcams.com/video/c1Ez1I2I5Ro/video.html
6. Candi Ketek czcams.com/video/M7bE3mDrY7M/video.html
7. Situs Selogending Lumajang.czcams.com/video/idFP6xq2VoU/video.html , czcams.com/video/xNo3mZvuFAY/video.html , Back Side of the main Stepped Pyramid Situs Selo Gending czcams.com/video/VR9V-CFQYj4/video.html , the latest Renovation of SItus Selogending added 2 Dragon King on RIght and Left Side of the Ladder czcams.com/video/77JTDcOp-EY/video.html
8. Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik czcams.com/video/wdmcTeOeY1g/video.html each terraces wide is 100M Near the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik , they found Fossil of Ancient Elephant from 900.000 years ago czcams.com/video/AYEM1B5NH1s/video.html and czcams.com/video/iWy8joCbAMY/video.html and more Fossil is found czcams.com/video/Kd7Wq_GjYGY/video.html they also found fossil of Ancient Hippopotamus czcams.com/video/HVBvbcFxAxA/video.html that has similar age to the Ancient Elephant the previously found, Ancient Babi Rusa/Babyrousa[that was believed has extinct since 35 million years ago in European], Ancient Kancil/Mouse Deer[that is called living fossil because it only changed a little since 34 Millions years ago]. All those are the Diets/ Food they eat and this proofed the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik is more Older and more Primitively made than Ancient Stepped Pyramid Gunung Padang, it's already there since around hundred thousands years ago. Maybe Java Man or Homo Erectus is the one who create this and they to become the Pioneer of this Punden Berundak / Ancient Stepped Pyramid.
9. Ancient Stepped Pyramid TOba czcams.com/video/t02i6Wpw6JE/video.html and czcams.com/video/jEiPBS9228I/video.html ancient altar with primitive letters.
Whenever it was constructed, it must have been a period of stability. Just think about the food requirements for this many laborers! Also politically stable, I can't be having inter tribal warfare going on when this is under construction. Environmental conditions would have needed to be consistent. The societal hierarchy was present in some form because someone is directing all this. But the question i keep coming back to is WHY? This looks like a massive amount of labor hours,probably years, and to what goal or objectives? Those are carved rocks, and they are heavy! To organize a large community to undertake this is what fascinates me, and they did it!
Jakarta metro area, a couple dozen km away, has 40 million people today. This has already been some of the best agricultural area in the world with some of the most stable climate. The rice agriculture began in Southeast Asia around 7k BC (or earlier) which would allow for massive populations. People have always built things if they had free time. It's just that absolutely nothing made by humans can survive more than 2000 years in jungle soil with heavy rain. Notably, the part of the original Great Wall of china from 200BC in the desert still looks acceptable, but the part in the rainy areas nearly undetectable.
The way the stones pillars are dressed are remarkable for their similarity to Nan Madol abandoned metropolis in the northern Pacific Ocean.
This video leaves a major question open: What was Gunung Padang actually?
a mountain that is deemed sacred by the locals. the dispute is how old it is.
An Ancient Punden Berundak that Built by Many Different Group of people with their own unique Culture and different Technology/ building technique since 27.000 years ago or even since the Volcano still active and used just like in Mount Bromo, they throw a sacrificeand harvest in to volcano by the group that Worship and Fear the Volcano. Bonus. Here are more Ancient Punden Berundak in Indonesia:
1. Punden Berundak/Ancient Stepped Pyramid Arca Domas czcams.com/video/XkS-SB1vppU/video.html and this one more detailed what is it in each Terraces czcams.com/video/-uaT8GLI1xA/video.html [use english auto translate to watch this] looks like miniature of Gunung Padang and it have 5 terraces
2. Lebak Sibedug czcams.com/video/59vkwfi9Iao/video.html
3. Lemah Wangi banyumas czcams.com/video/MsXw4LVCk60/video.html , czcams.com/video/4MRHstyJliY/video.html
4. Pangguyangan czcams.com/video/jLpn5zJ3oZo/video.html
5. Pasir Lulumpang czcams.com/video/c1Ez1I2I5Ro/video.html
6. Candi Ketek czcams.com/video/M7bE3mDrY7M/video.html
7. Situs Selogending Lumajang.czcams.com/video/idFP6xq2VoU/video.html , czcams.com/video/xNo3mZvuFAY/video.html , Back Side of the main Stepped Pyramid Situs Selo Gending czcams.com/video/VR9V-CFQYj4/video.html , the latest Renovation of SItus Selogending added 2 Dragon King on RIght and Left Side of the Ladder czcams.com/video/77JTDcOp-EY/video.html
8. Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik czcams.com/video/wdmcTeOeY1g/video.html each terraces wide is 100M Near the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik , they found Fossil of Ancient Elephant from 900.000 years ago czcams.com/video/AYEM1B5NH1s/video.html and czcams.com/video/iWy8joCbAMY/video.html and more Fossil is found czcams.com/video/Kd7Wq_GjYGY/video.html they also found fossil of Ancient Hippopotamus czcams.com/video/HVBvbcFxAxA/video.html that has similar age to the Ancient Elephant the previously found, Ancient Babi Rusa/Babyrousa[that was believed has extinct since 35 million years ago in European], Ancient Kancil/Mouse Deer[that is called living fossil because it only changed a little since 34 Millions years ago]. All those are the Diets/ Food they eat and this proofed the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik is more Older and more Primitively made than Ancient Stepped Pyramid Gunung Padang, it's already there since around hundred thousands years ago. Maybe Java Man or Homo Erectus is the one who create this and they to become the Pioneer of this Punden Berundak / Ancient Stepped Pyramid.
9. Ancient Stepped Pyramid TOba czcams.com/video/t02i6Wpw6JE/video.html and czcams.com/video/jEiPBS9228I/video.html ancient altar with primitive letters.
Publish-or-perish, as well as resurgent nationalist- oriented revisionist sentiments, and a much wider public distrust of the sciences, for reasons ranging from the reasonable to the truly outlandish and absurd, have all kicked this kind of thing into overdrive lately. The Hindu nationalist attempts to misuse their own storied and venerable religious traditions to claim that ancient Indian kingdoms had space travel still sticks in my head like a spike.
"The Hindu nationalist attempts to misuse their own storied and venerable religious traditions to claim that ancient Indian kingdoms had space travel still sticks in my head like a spike"
Link
I haven't heard Hindus claim ancient space travel before but I have heard Indian nationalists online claim civilization began in India and spread everywhere from there, which is silly enough
@@LibrarianSankore mostly surrounding things like Vimāna. Flying chariots are nothing new in Indo European religion, like Apollo's or Sol invictus. The sun and moon often are racing on chariots in the sky. But interpretting this literally as spacecraft travel is insane
basically every religion, even christianity.
The issue with radiocarbon dating applies also to the conventionally accepted dates of sites like Stonehenge. Finding and dating a fragment of antler (assumed to be from a pick) beneath a stone does not prove the construction date - what if the stone had fallen over and people from the antler time repaired the structure? We know it had substantial renovations in the 20th century, with concrete and cement added.
All these Indonesian people pointing out that Gunung just means mountain reminds me of this fantastic Terry Pratchett quote:
The forest of Skund was indeed enchanted, which was nothing unusual on the Disc, and was also the only forest in the whole universe to be called -- in the local language -- Your Finger You Fool, which was the literal meaning of the word Skund.
The reason for this is regrettably all too common. When the first explorers from the warm lands around the Circle Sea travelled into the chilly hinterland they filled in the blank spaces on their maps by grabbing the nearest native, pointing at some distant landmark, speaking very clearly in a loud voice, and writing down whatever the bemused man told them. Thus were immortalised in generations of atlases such geographical oddities as Just A Mountain, I Don't Know, What? and, of course, Your Finger You Fool.
Rainclouds clustered around the bald heights of Mt. Oolskunrahod ('Who is this Fool who does Not Know what a Mountain is') and the Luggage settled itself more comfortably under a dripping tree, which tried unsuccessfully to strike up a conversation.
Haha that’s awesome, thanks for sharing,
Although, fwiw, asking local people their names for places is a very useful way of learning about past activities that have left no other trace in the landscape.
The same sort of thing happened with Gobekli Tepe, as I understand it, that Tepe just means HILL
@@richjordan6461 moment of silence for the Sahara Desert - Desert Desert and Torpenhow Hill - HillHillHill Hill 🙌
@@bethmarriott9292 the La Brea Tar Pits would like a word with you
There are a couple of River Avons in the UK. You can guess the etymology of 'Avon' and you can be sure Terry knew too.
Very good! I have always objected strongly to the idea that a stone structure can be dated by applying carbon-14 testing to organic remains found in proximity to that structure. There is simply no way to prove or disprove the idea that those organic remains are contemporaneous. Great Zimbabwe serves as an excellent example of this.
Depends on the context and amount of dates extracted for the site. If that would be an organic remain entrapped between two stones creating a wall and it was pretty sure that last time it could get into that place was during construction the data is more robust. If you have many such dates with good context and they all point to the same moment in time, it is pretty good dating. Alas, those details usually are ignored during mass media coverage and one has to dug much deeper into research papers to asses if the dating was done reasonably or was such junk like with those 27k.
@@wojtek1582 Exactly, people judge and object strongly like
@R3dp055um but dont take the time to dig into the studies that use organic remains. Ofcourse they are well aware that you cant just take any organic remains.
There are ways to prove that organic remains are contemporaneous with a stone structure. At many stone structures, including megalithic sites such as Gunung Padang, construction would entail ground disturbing activity that would leave a visible feature stain in the soil. For example, to erect a standing stone, you would typically want to dig a hole where the stone is to be planted, then back fill around the stone when it has been put in position. That back fill is known as feature fill and it is distinct from the surrounding undisturbed soil matrix. If the feature fill contains deeply buried artifacts or organic remains, you can assume those remains were placed there during construction. There are a couple caveats. Bioturbation can bury modern artifacts at a shallow depth, so you could potentially find modern artifacts buried near the surface in ancient feature fill. But these won't be deeply buried. Also, ancient artifacts or charcoal from much earlier than the megalith's construction could have been dug up and mixed into the feature fill by the megalith builders as they were depositing it. But even then, comparison with data from other features can be useful. If you excavate a cooking pit feature, you can assume that the charcoal in the cooking pit is contemporaneous with the pit's use, and you can use those dates to date any diagnostic artifacts within the cooking pit. And if you find the same type of diagnostic artifacts in feature fill associated with the construction of a megalith, this provides additional evidence regarding the timing of the megalith's construction.
Excuse my total ignorance to the field of archeology, but what actually prevents us from figuring out how the structure was formed? Can't we just scan that place with stuff like LIDAR and GPR? And why not just simply excavate the site? Like, dig some holes and take samples. I'm genuinely curious.
TY 🙏🙏
Can you do an episode on Punden Berundak hills/pyramids of indonesia?.
Took the words of the conclusion right out of my mouth. Though I would like for the site to just be that little bit more remarkable and surprising, simply because we can chalk it up to human ingenuity.
Peer review is beyond worthless; it increases political bias without improving authenticity.
let's say peer review that is actually done in nearly all journals is beyond worthless. But in principle it could work.
We indonesian people not only having "gunung padang", we also have another thing which is tasty food, and we call it as "nasi padang". 😄
Bagus!
Those at the flag rank level in DDR&E knew that star wars was technically not going to work but the engineers generally are not in control. However the Black Prince did block a deal agreed upon between Ronnie and Gorby to ban nuclear weapons because that would have negatively impacted upon a middle eastern power's program.
I was surprised, but not too surprised, when this silliness got published, because martin sweatmans gobekli tepe zodiak bullcrap also got published several years ago....
Was that peer-reviewed? I thought Seeatman published it on his own.
@@WorldWokeApeCult I think I heard him say it was peer reviewed in a video where he was pushing back at david mianos criticism
@@steventhompson399 Yes thanks, I’ll look it up. I know the video you mean.
I first heard of sweatman on miano's world of antiquity channel, it's on there somewhere
I'm certainly no expert but I can't imagine gobekli tepe's builders had the same constellations as Babylon and Greece in the first millennium bc, several thousand years later, and I certainly don't buy the "cataclysmic" comet business either
You should do a video on the controversy over stone cairns/walls in the northeast and the possibility of them being precolumbian
your professor should have added, there is always something overlooked.
while it is fair to point a finger at the academic community, we do have to remember that the number and distribution of participants has grown exponentially with the growth of the internet and academic institutions across the globe. It is no longer just the highly contiguous American and European tradition that up to a few decades ago completely dominated academic publication and research. At the same time, the western tradition has been encouraged to step back so as not to promote 'colonialist' and western narratives/thought and allow developing nations a space in research and publication, especially in Archaeology which is often heavily criticised for appropriating other people's histories. I do not agree with this in principle, but I think it is the main cause of academic decline in quality after general decline in education and perhaps greater political bias in publication.
Gunung Padang is An Ancient Punden Berundak that Built by Many Different Group of people with their own unique Culture and different Technology/ building technique since 27.000 years ago or even since the Volcano still active and used just like in Mount Bromo, they throw a sacrificeand harvest in to volcano by the group that Worship and Fear the Volcano. Bonus. Here are more Ancient Punden Berundak in Indonesia:
1. Punden Berundak/Ancient Stepped Pyramid Arca Domas czcams.com/video/XkS-SB1vppU/video.html and this one more detailed what is it in each Terraces czcams.com/video/-uaT8GLI1xA/video.html [use english auto translate to watch this] looks like miniature of Gunung Padang and it have 5 terraces
2. Lebak Sibedug czcams.com/video/59vkwfi9Iao/video.html
3. Lemah Wangi banyumas czcams.com/video/MsXw4LVCk60/video.html , czcams.com/video/4MRHstyJliY/video.html
4. Pangguyangan czcams.com/video/jLpn5zJ3oZo/video.html
5. Pasir Lulumpang czcams.com/video/c1Ez1I2I5Ro/video.html
6. Candi Ketek czcams.com/video/M7bE3mDrY7M/video.html
7. Situs Selogending Lumajang.czcams.com/video/idFP6xq2VoU/video.html , czcams.com/video/xNo3mZvuFAY/video.html , Back Side of the main Stepped Pyramid Situs Selo Gending czcams.com/video/VR9V-CFQYj4/video.html , the latest Renovation of SItus Selogending added 2 Dragon King on RIght and Left Side of the Ladder czcams.com/video/77JTDcOp-EY/video.html
8. Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik czcams.com/video/wdmcTeOeY1g/video.html each terraces wide is 100M Near the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik , they found Fossil of Ancient Elephant from 900.000 years ago czcams.com/video/AYEM1B5NH1s/video.html and czcams.com/video/iWy8joCbAMY/video.html and more Fossil is found czcams.com/video/Kd7Wq_GjYGY/video.html they also found fossil of Ancient Hippopotamus czcams.com/video/HVBvbcFxAxA/video.html that has similar age to the Ancient Elephant the previously found, Ancient Babi Rusa/Babyrousa[that was believed has extinct since 35 million years ago in European], Ancient Kancil/Mouse Deer[that is called living fossil because it only changed a little since 34 Millions years ago]. All those are the Diets/ Food they eat and this proofed the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik is more Older and more Primitively made than Ancient Stepped Pyramid Gunung Padang, it's already there since around hundred thousands years ago. Maybe Java Man or Homo Erectus is the one who create this and they to become the Pioneer of this Punden Berundak / Ancient Stepped Pyramid.
9. Ancient Stepped Pyramid TOba czcams.com/video/t02i6Wpw6JE/video.html and czcams.com/video/jEiPBS9228I/video.html ancient altar with primitive letters.
Seems like publishing shoddy data could result in a journal losing its accreditation status. Or at least being put on probation. Should definitely at least lead to other scholars losing some degree of trust in that particular journal
sorry to say that but the most prestigious journals like nature and science are flooded by shoddy data already.
the dating method definitely seems flawed. for instance: from radio-carbon dating one of the rocks used in building the rock waterfall in my garden ive determined it to be the oldest man made structure in North America.
You can't carbon date stone. Only organic material contains carbon 14.
@@MrBottlecapBill how does that work with organic matter composing layers of sedimentary rock or fossils that have undergone complete diagenesis, replacing tissues and bone with sandstone? i could carbon date a rock from my waterfall as long as it wasnt quite fully a rock yet, but near enough as makes no palpable difference.
👍👍
Similar thinking about hill in Bosnia, Europe... :D
To be fair, I don't think Westerners, or Americans, find Enlightenment values any more natural than the Indonesians. We've been playing at the game longer and yet it _still_ feels like a losing battle, on bad days.
if it deserves focus and study than why not talk about it? that is, gunung padang.. also, are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater here a bit? the date is clearly erroneous but what about the rest of the findings in that paper? or perhaps any other on the site? are there any? if not, why do you think that is?
Gunung Padang is An Ancient Punden Berundak that Built by Many Different Group of people with their own unique Culture and different Technology/ building technique since 27.000 years ago or even since the Volcano still active and used just like in Mount Bromo, they throw a sacrificeand harvest in to volcano by the group that Worship and Fear the Volcano. Bonus. Here are more Ancient Punden Berundak in Indonesia:
1. Punden Berundak/Ancient Stepped Pyramid Arca Domas czcams.com/video/XkS-SB1vppU/video.html and this one more detailed what is it in each Terraces czcams.com/video/-uaT8GLI1xA/video.html [use english auto translate to watch this] looks like miniature of Gunung Padang and it have 5 terraces
2. Lebak Sibedug czcams.com/video/59vkwfi9Iao/video.html
3. Lemah Wangi banyumas czcams.com/video/MsXw4LVCk60/video.html , czcams.com/video/4MRHstyJliY/video.html
4. Pangguyangan czcams.com/video/jLpn5zJ3oZo/video.html
5. Pasir Lulumpang czcams.com/video/c1Ez1I2I5Ro/video.html
6. Candi Ketek czcams.com/video/M7bE3mDrY7M/video.html
7. Situs Selogending Lumajang.czcams.com/video/idFP6xq2VoU/video.html , czcams.com/video/xNo3mZvuFAY/video.html , Back Side of the main Stepped Pyramid Situs Selo Gending czcams.com/video/VR9V-CFQYj4/video.html , the latest Renovation of SItus Selogending added 2 Dragon King on RIght and Left Side of the Ladder czcams.com/video/77JTDcOp-EY/video.html
8. Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik czcams.com/video/wdmcTeOeY1g/video.html each terraces wide is 100M Near the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik , they found Fossil of Ancient Elephant from 900.000 years ago czcams.com/video/AYEM1B5NH1s/video.html and czcams.com/video/iWy8joCbAMY/video.html and more Fossil is found czcams.com/video/Kd7Wq_GjYGY/video.html they also found fossil of Ancient Hippopotamus czcams.com/video/HVBvbcFxAxA/video.html that has similar age to the Ancient Elephant the previously found, Ancient Babi Rusa/Babyrousa[that was believed has extinct since 35 million years ago in European], Ancient Kancil/Mouse Deer[that is called living fossil because it only changed a little since 34 Millions years ago]. All those are the Diets/ Food they eat and this proofed the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik is more Older and more Primitively made than Ancient Stepped Pyramid Gunung Padang, it's already there since around hundred thousands years ago. Maybe Java Man or Homo Erectus is the one who create this and they to become the Pioneer of this Punden Berundak / Ancient Stepped Pyramid.
9. Ancient Stepped Pyramid TOba czcams.com/video/t02i6Wpw6JE/video.html and czcams.com/video/jEiPBS9228I/video.html ancient altar with primitive letters.
do the 70k year old jade bracelet with a drilled hole, made by Denisovans
Historians ought not use the phrase "pseudo scientific". It's both deeply vain and intellectually embarrassing to imagine that formal academia is "scientific", even within the hard sciences.
Tell your story and see how you go. Don't imagine you were born into it.
Current mood: thinking about how the first archeologists would just blow shit up and poke around the craters
Potholer45 has a good video on this one as well.
This is a good example of why I like your channel. Your conscientous work actually reached me before the lies you debunked clould. Kudos :)
Doesn't align with my current paradigm!?!?!
PSUEDOSCIENCE!
lol
“Peer reviewed” doesn’t mean a study is correct. It simply means it has demonstrated some credibility and so is up for discussion, analysis and criticism. Unfortunately it’s only since a lot of climate science nonsense was touted as “peer reviewed” that the mainstream media have mistaken it to mean it is the truth.
Not true. Peer review means that scientific principles and all techniques used are correct. Scientists don't take one paper as truth, but when all the data from hundreds of papers agree, then a scientific consensus builds. When there is a scientific consensus, that is when scientists believe they are at least close to the truth - this is what we have in climate science, and it's not nonsense. It's true. Just because you're in denial about the mountains of data all pointing to the same truths doesn't make it nonsense. Facts don't care about you're feelings.
*This comment was sponsored by Saudi ARAMCO and The Koch Brothers Foundation*
Looks like Big Archeology has claimed another victim.
We’re unstoppable.
Another loss for Big Conspiracy Theories.
Dunia ingin menutup peradaban,seperti peradaban lain yg sudah di hilangkan.😅mungkin.
it's not a pyramid, it's a "prepared terrace structure" like an Incan site
📝
The evidence is that it's not one or two papers that are wrong. It's far more than that, and peer review doesn't solve this at all.
Kaori 🐚 a Mūkti🧜🏾♀️
Pyramids turn into volcanoes
Fraudulent papers being submitted. It's the second time this month that I've heard that from YT content creators. Sad.
Poor science needs to be pointed out.
I think "megalith" used repeatedly here means nothing. It's not a real archeological thing. But if you mean very large stones used by people, these stones aren't that big in that category and the hill is not a s huge solid stone either.
Megalith is just technical term for man-made stone structures composed of individual stones that need to be moved through artificial mechanical means. The stones don't have to be that large. They just need to be too heavy to be carried manually. Basically, if you can't fit enough people around the stone to carry it, it's a megalith. Also, artificial mechanical means can be as simple as sliding it on wet soil or as bonkers as "walking" it with ropes (like the Easter Island Moai). The Gunung Padang site contains a large number of proper megaliths.
You are examining the "mistake" but ignoring the overwhelming effort made on behalf of the institutions to suppress any dialogue that suggests there are pyramids of similar design in other parts of the world or that an ancient advanced race of people lived before the last ice age. These scientists may well have been too hasty in trying to date Padang but that doesn't mean the site is not of a similar age or that there is a larger story being ignored here.
Same old same old
Where was the sample studied taken from and how? That sounds like a fair question, I'm not on the Graham bus, I just want all the information available before I form an opinion. Established science can be wrong. Otherwise, the Wright brothers would have never gotten off the ground.
Several trenches were dug between 2012-14 at varying depths, two to eleven meters deep, at different terraces. The walls of the trenches were then drilled to extract core samples. While there are organic remains in the core samples there’s nothing in the stratigraphy that suggested human presence at those layers. So, the organic remains are indeed up to 27000 years old. There’s just nothing to associate them with humans at that period
Respectfully, are you a relevant expert whose opinion would matter on this issue? I am not, so I rely on expert level consensus.
@@Eyes_Open I am not, all of the information in this video and the comment I left here, however, come from the original paper which was redacted, and the other paper in the video voicing criticism of the conclusions. All of which are written by professional geologists or archaeologists
@@TheFallofRome Sorry, my text was directed to the other commenter but my phone didn't tag their account. Thanks for the video!
@@Eyes_Open no problem!
🤴🏾GuDūn Panang🤚🏾👁🗨📯
"pyramid" its self are controversial name since not actual pyramid like other, maybe it just for tourism and media bait.
Originaly mountain cover with stone at top of it, like Borobodur it inner mountain and cover it with stone,
The rocks look like the debris around the Devil's Postpile in California. I'd surmise there's some interesting geology behind this formation, perhaps involving multiple lava lakes on top of one another at one time, and erosion of surrounding softer rock leaving layers of postpiles exposed.
🗿👍
I can accept that at some point in the past native Javans reworked the summit of this natural formation. For what ever pupose. But some time in the historical period. The site had since been subjected to numerous earthquakes yhat have jumbled stuff around. It is on Java after. Plus close to the Sunda Straight. As to age. Even if one were to be generous I'd say 4k years tops. The only way to really be sure is propoer dating.
One other question. Are there any other sites on Java (or Sumatra) that feature megalithic stone work.
megalitic works are common in austronesian culture. in fact it is the native religion before hinduism influence arrive in the region.
anyway it was built by sundanese people, not javanese.
@@rizkyadiyanto7922
By Javans l meant people living on Java.
This isn’t really fair.
All carbon dating is done by taking organic material from near around any site that consists of stone work.
No problem usually, but now there is?
Except it still kinda is problem? It's just one overlooked typically.
The typical dating methodology is to take samples close to an area of proven human activity. This particular study did not do that.
The devils in the details.
Gunung Padang is not Pyramid, it's An Ancient Punden Berundak that Built by Many Different Group of people with their own unique Culture and different Technology/ building technique since 27.000 years ago or even since the Volcano still active and used just like in Mount Bromo, they throw a sacrificeand harvest in to volcano by the group that Worship and Fear the Volcano. Bonus. Here are more Ancient Punden Berundak in Indonesia:
1. Punden Berundak/Ancient Stepped Pyramid Arca Domas czcams.com/video/XkS-SB1vppU/video.html and this one more detailed what is it in each Terraces czcams.com/video/-uaT8GLI1xA/video.html [use english auto translate to watch this] looks like miniature of Gunung Padang and it have 5 terraces
2. Lebak Sibedug czcams.com/video/59vkwfi9Iao/video.html
3. Lemah Wangi banyumas czcams.com/video/MsXw4LVCk60/video.html , czcams.com/video/4MRHstyJliY/video.html
4. Pangguyangan czcams.com/video/jLpn5zJ3oZo/video.html
5. Pasir Lulumpang czcams.com/video/c1Ez1I2I5Ro/video.html
6. Candi Ketek czcams.com/video/M7bE3mDrY7M/video.html
7. Situs Selogending Lumajang.czcams.com/video/idFP6xq2VoU/video.html , czcams.com/video/xNo3mZvuFAY/video.html , Back Side of the main Stepped Pyramid Situs Selo Gending czcams.com/video/VR9V-CFQYj4/video.html , the latest Renovation of SItus Selogending added 2 Dragon King on RIght and Left Side of the Ladder czcams.com/video/77JTDcOp-EY/video.html
8. Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik czcams.com/video/wdmcTeOeY1g/video.html each terraces wide is 100M Near the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik , they found Fossil of Ancient Elephant from 900.000 years ago czcams.com/video/AYEM1B5NH1s/video.html and czcams.com/video/iWy8joCbAMY/video.html and more Fossil is found czcams.com/video/Kd7Wq_GjYGY/video.html they also found fossil of Ancient Hippopotamus czcams.com/video/HVBvbcFxAxA/video.html that has similar age to the Ancient Elephant the previously found, Ancient Babi Rusa/Babyrousa[that was believed has extinct since 35 million years ago in European], Ancient Kancil/Mouse Deer[that is called living fossil because it only changed a little since 34 Millions years ago]. All those are the Diets/ Food they eat and this proofed the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik is more Older and more Primitively made than Ancient Stepped Pyramid Gunung Padang, it's already there since around hundred thousands years ago. Maybe Java Man or Homo Erectus is the one who create this and they to become the Pioneer of this Punden Berundak / Ancient Stepped Pyramid.
9. Ancient Stepped Pyramid TOba czcams.com/video/t02i6Wpw6JE/video.html and czcams.com/video/jEiPBS9228I/video.html ancient altar with primitive letters.
Whither academia.
Your statement about the core samples seems like an assumption
I love the channel, I do think there is a chance it could be that old. I know this time it was dirt but if we get some solid work done to confirm or deny that would be awesome. I do think there were people building stuff during the ice age, a-lot of other crazy stuff graham says is baseless imo.
dumbing down
Ahhh booger poopy ! 💩
0:32 When you mentioned Hancock I died internally
Another agent of “Big Archeology” attempting to silence the little known Graham Hancock /s
As long as they follow DEI and the outcomes are equitable thats the important thing
Don't really care for your use of the term psudo scientific... All the show does is ask questions.. and suggest people think for themselves. It doesn't pretend to offer any hard conclusions.
Graham Hancock could state that the sky is blue and I would have to check with reputable scientists and then wonder how Hancock thinks he can make money off the claim.
Witty comment
First?
GJ, GG WP.
This is a very interesting video, and the topic of legitimate reportage needs to be addressed more fully and publicly. Long ago {when I was in high school, I think] I read one of the garbage books by Error von Dummkopf* and thought about asking the librarian why the book was in the library. The video points out the misrepresentation being made by the so-called "History Channel" on this case, and there are many similar things in print and on the Internet. However, there are other kinds of mistakes, especially the longevity of preliminary, but later found to be inaccurate or even false, reports. This is illustrated by the continued beliefs that Göbekli Tepe was only a ritual site, not residential, and that it had been deliberately filled in. These initial speculations have now been shown to be inaccurate or false. Habitations have been found and some of the burial seems to have been due to land slippage. Governments and corporations have discovered the profits to be made by milking tourists. The picture showing the "Bosnian Pyramid" shows a slightly altered natural peak that was publicized by a pseudoscientist in league with the local tourist bureau in order to benefit thereby.
Thanks for another great video.
Gunung Padang is not Pyramid but An Ancient Punden Berundak that Built by Many Different Group of people with their own unique Culture and different Technology/ building technique since 27.000 years ago or even since the Volcano still active and used just like in Mount Bromo, they throw a sacrificeand harvest in to volcano by the group that Worship and Fear the Volcano. Bonus. Here are more Ancient Punden Berundak in Indonesia:
1. Punden Berundak/Ancient Stepped Pyramid Arca Domas czcams.com/video/XkS-SB1vppU/video.html and this one more detailed what is it in each Terraces czcams.com/video/-uaT8GLI1xA/video.html [use english auto translate to watch this] looks like miniature of Gunung Padang and it have 5 terraces
2. Lebak Sibedug czcams.com/video/59vkwfi9Iao/video.html
3. Lemah Wangi banyumas czcams.com/video/MsXw4LVCk60/video.html , czcams.com/video/4MRHstyJliY/video.html
4. Pangguyangan czcams.com/video/jLpn5zJ3oZo/video.html
5. Pasir Lulumpang czcams.com/video/c1Ez1I2I5Ro/video.html
6. Candi Ketek czcams.com/video/M7bE3mDrY7M/video.html
7. Situs Selogending Lumajang.czcams.com/video/idFP6xq2VoU/video.html , czcams.com/video/xNo3mZvuFAY/video.html , Back Side of the main Stepped Pyramid Situs Selo Gending czcams.com/video/VR9V-CFQYj4/video.html , the latest Renovation of SItus Selogending added 2 Dragon King on RIght and Left Side of the Ladder czcams.com/video/77JTDcOp-EY/video.html
8. Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik czcams.com/video/wdmcTeOeY1g/video.html each terraces wide is 100M Near the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik , they found Fossil of Ancient Elephant from 900.000 years ago czcams.com/video/AYEM1B5NH1s/video.html and czcams.com/video/iWy8joCbAMY/video.html and more Fossil is found czcams.com/video/Kd7Wq_GjYGY/video.html they also found fossil of Ancient Hippopotamus czcams.com/video/HVBvbcFxAxA/video.html that has similar age to the Ancient Elephant the previously found, Ancient Babi Rusa/Babyrousa[that was believed has extinct since 35 million years ago in European], Ancient Kancil/Mouse Deer[that is called living fossil because it only changed a little since 34 Millions years ago]. All those are the Diets/ Food they eat and this proofed the Ancient Stepped Pyramid Hutan Jati Tritik is more Older and more Primitively made than Ancient Stepped Pyramid Gunung Padang, it's already there since around hundred thousands years ago. Maybe Java Man or Homo Erectus is the one who create this and they to become the Pioneer of this Punden Berundak / Ancient Stepped Pyramid.
9. Ancient Stepped Pyramid TOba czcams.com/video/t02i6Wpw6JE/video.html and czcams.com/video/jEiPBS9228I/video.html ancient altar with primitive letters.
"...that THEY don't want you to know about." Something about conspiracy theories is very addictive to certain folks. It's worthy of further study to see if we can find a cure.
The Bosnian pyramid is much older either way. Regardless of any “scientific theories” the architecture of the structure shows it goes back farther. I’ll trust architects to build a house and archeologists to build theories that fall apart under scrutiny. But hey, everyone has to make a living
But you can’t even tell what is a pyramid and what isn’t. 😂
@@WorldWokeApeCult Say you investigated it without really investigating it…
@@TheRealrealTV Say you’re not qualified to even discuss something like this….🤣
Where did the ancients ever come up with the idea to build a ....hill. truly an advanced civilization
Another thing the International Archaeological Conspiracy doesn't want you to know. Those bastids strike again!
I put Graham Hancock int he same league as that Ancient Aliens meme guy. great for entertainment, but can't take him seriously. haha
Hancock, von Däniken etc. gave archaeology a huge popularity boost.
@@aleisterlavey9716 They gave their bank accounts a big boost. The science existed before them and but it has to be seen if it survives them.
Classic 5 level Hindu temple complex.
Well done. The university orthodoxy has been too long unscientifically curious with loud, bold pronouncements and foot-dragging across many disciplines. I will leave it at that and keep my true thoughts hidden.
It's how they get the grant money.
"I will leave it at that and keep my true thoughts hidden." - why? What are you afraid of? Perhaps you need help?
If I had to choose I'd go with peer reviewed over the alternative. It's like getting a 2nd opinion.
Clearly a relic of Tartaria, destroyed by mudflood.
I'll see myself out.
*puts on hat*
Graham Hancock: *sees a pointy mountain*
Graham Hancock: BY JOVE, A PYRAMID MADE BY ALIENS
To be fair, Mr. Hancock is not actually bringing in Aliens. He argues that there was a relatively high technology society with global scale during what is now considered pre-history.
Graham Hancock: "This is yet another example of thousands of sites that mainstream archaeologists are hiding the truth about." Giorgio Tsoukalis: "Could it be? Ancient alien astronauts came down and built this site?" Both hilarious, and free to say what they want, but.... I blame the shameless idiots at The History Channel for giving these nutjobs a forum.
Archeology is dead science to the most people. Its just that archeologist don't realise it yet
Did you fail out?😂
I don't care what "most people" think. The opinions of laymen are inconsequential.
Graham Hancock is an embarrassment to the idea of critical thinking and analysis. I have my problems with huge swaths of academia, but that man is bereft of sense.
We indonesian people not only having "gunung padang", we also have another thing which is tasty food, and we call it as "nasi padang". 😄
Historians ought not use the phrase "pseudo scientific". It's both deeply vain and intellectually embarrassing to imagine that formal academia is "scientific", even within the hard sciences.
Tell your story and see how you go. Don't imagine you were born into it.
Would you prefer 'Bad Science', 'Unproven', 'Badly Researched', 'Scientifically Faulted', 'Poorly Tested', 'Empirically Unjustified' or just good old fashioned 'Codswallop' ?
It says a lot about the honesty (or lack of it) of the 'scientist' that pretended that this hypothesis was a tested theory and even more about the willingness of those people that are willing to be sold snake oil for all afflictions.