Why Secular Music?
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 12. 2015
- Why does Flatirons Community Church play secular music in their services? Pastor Jim Burgen explains in this excerpt from "Meet Your Maker Value 6: Excellent Environments"
The entire service can be viewed here: www.flatironschurch.com/messag... - Hudba
Not because we support the people, but because we support their awesome songs?......Eminem? Really? The truth they speak of through their songs? Good music? Just because we like it? We will use any method we can?...i’m so confused....
Right agree their thinking is faulty. All is on the table , may as well have sex in church or serve alcohol in church turn the church into a bar then people will come and relax right. Stop trying to be like the world. Be different then the world that is what should attract them to follow Jesus.
@@Notofthisworld1979 I wouldn't be surprised if they did, be it covertly.
I pray God moves the pastors heart if he is displeased with their method to reach the lost.
Yes, Worldly/secular music is very spiritual. The spirits behind it is lust, hate, sexual immorality, blasphemy, idolatry, and all other forms of ungodliness.
@Yatsu not just a little... anything FROM man is just ungodliness man. Unless God’s Hand was in it while man made it.
ameen!!
@@Dragon-Catracho True. There are always exceptions. But the larger percentage of secular music today is very ungodly. All a person has to do is pay attention to the words but many just get caught up in listening to the music and moving to the beat.
@@MrsDVK True that's why I like to listen to old school Secular Music. Cuz the ones right now is just to strong. Old schools Songs were more cleaners
@@Dragon-Catracho Yes....
Romans 12:2 ESV
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
John 15:19 ESV
If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John 18:36 ESV
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
1 John 2:15 ESV
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
John 17:14 ESV
I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
These are just a few there are so many more we are born into this world and through Christ Born out of this world and into the kingdom of heaven how can one write songs for the kingdom of heaven if not born into the kingdom of heaven you cannot truly know God or worship God all that music is doing is leading a false hope and leading people to believe secular music is OK. It’s basically creating your own God not following the biblical example of who God is through the Bible. It’s blasphemy to make God who you want him to be God never changes he is the same yesterday today and forever! It’s not for me to say that you should or shouldn’t listen to secular music but for it to be played in church, this is completely and biblical to play this song doesn’t worship God but worships our actions or thoughts or emotions it’s all about ourselves not about God not about Jesus his price that he paid for us the blood that he shed.The standard of the church is way higher than the standard outside of a church.
Amen Kyle, I guess this church has the Rick Warren spirit.
FLATIRONS: A worldly whorehouse pretending to be a church!
Maybe the music you play comes from the God of this world. Chose who you will serve
He’s also taking 1 Cor 10 out of context. It’s about GIVING UP liberties as a Christian for the sake of an unbeliever. It would be more like- a Christian could listen to those songs and be able to discern truth from error but unbelievers cannot. Thus we should give up the liberty to listen to such songs on behalf of the unbeliever. Not use the songs in order to reach the unbeliever.
This is what all seeker sensitive churches use and say in order to back up their claim of using worldly means to reach the world.
Right. It's like using vodka to attract alcoholics to attend AA meetings. It will get them in the building, but the method to get them to attend meetings is very wrong.
It's not about who wrote the songs.. It's about the messages in the song that can enlightening the listener to be a better person before God.
Luke 10:25-37, it's not about the status but it's about the action that God cares
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
I Love Flatirons and everything about them. God Bless you all and Thank you for sharing your life and gift for teaching us God's word 🙏 ❤
I get where he's coming from, but playing secular music just because it 'raises questions' or is a 'good song' isn't the best argument. People can here those songs in their cars on a daily basis, but when you are together as one body of Christ in the same room, there should be nothing but real worship happening. We need to respect the fact that no matter who is in the room with us, we are there to worship God. But to see comments like, "doctrine of demons," c'mon guys...really?
Music should communicate and express a sense of awe and wonder in the presence of God; it should lead our thoughts toward God rather than toward ourselves.
Looking into the comments, a lot of people don't understand the guilt by association fallacy
Is there anywhere this whole message is posted?
Here you go! flatironschurch.com/fi-messages/meet-your-maker-value-6-excellent-environments/
Everyone’s arguing about which one is right and wrong, which one is the right method to reach people and which one is wrong. but no one ever talk about all that Jesus wanted is to love one another, as we love ourself. No matter how. Y’all so focused on the method instead of to love the Love itself. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Judging the pastor will not make you any better to Him. The pastor tried his best to reach people out there, what did you do? Period.
Not period. Where is the gospel? Romans 1:16. This pastor is foolish. While I'm sure people get saved from this foolishness he is leading others astray.
1 john 3:15, Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world for he that love the world does not have the love of the Father in him. this worldly churches think God is in them whereas God is far from them. Jesus will separate the sheeps from the goats on the last day
so that means I can smoke weed cos God put weed here on earth
No because the Bible warns of addiction and doing harm to your body.
@@wilsonw.t.6878 does that mean we’re not allowed to drink alcohol either? Because it can become an addiction as well. And I know a lot of people who attend this church who get plastered every Friday, have a couple of drinks every weeknight and come to church on Sunday.
As long as you don't let it ruin your life I say go for it
The problem is the addiction not the plants. Any addiction beyond our control is what the root cause. You may addict to Social Media which makes you unproductive.
God said he gave every “herb”of the field to man
When someone has to question the pastor “does this count?” Something is wrong. Love how people like him use the cop out excuse “we’re not perfect but we’re trying”. How about using wisdom and share the gospel. Make it count!
Except...people always question everyone with "does this count?" so that is not an indication.
@@wilsonw.t.6878 Your reply to that to individual did not make no sense whatsoever. Please - if you want to call yourself a believer in Christ alone who simply wants to submit to what the Scripture teaches for this Dispensation of the grace of God: Quit beating around the bush. Embracing the methods & messages of an industry that is rooted in rebellion against the Authority of God & His Holy Scripture: Is simply not what the gathering & assembly of the Body of Christ is for in the first place.
Pastor: what we do is not about “me” or just “you”…
Proceeds to play music just for them.
We’re also called not to be like the world, but as a new creation….there’s a fine there that you don’t have to tiptoe through….All things have been made permissible by Christ, but what kind of songs give him glory? A song by dashboard confessional or one glorifying him for his grace and mercy?
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2
Singing a secular song is not being conformed to the world. I don't necessarily agree it should be sung in church, but it definitely is not conforming. Especially if the lyrics do not contradict scripture.
Yes you are right. We are falling comfortable in calling the wrong thing good, and the good bad. I pray that God opens the eyes of their souls of this church and this pastor. Everything evil & sinful that will take us one way ticket to hell. Artist are now open to say they sold their souls to the devil. And that they hang with witches or that they are witches. And yet we still sing along to that. And by the looks of it, bring it into the holy place of worship And letting our childrens soul rotten with everything unholy. Everything that won't help their spirits grow and get closer to eternal life! I am sadden.ay God bless you all!
This is why people need the Holy Ghost. It is supposed to convict us if we are doing something wrong. Gospel/Christian music is best to feed your spirit. But I don't agree that all "secular" music is demonic or evil. For example there's a song by the four tops called keeper of the castle. Which is about the role of a man in a family dynamic. There's no cursing or foul language. It doesn't promote lust of the eye, lust of the flesh, or pride of life. And there is a lot of other songs out there like that. So we should just keep in mind as Christians that music belongs to God. Not satin, because people love saying that lie. And God can use anyone to put out a good or encouraging message. Even if that person doesn't realize they are being used of God.
@@Supremes2001 but singing a song by Gaga who supports abortion is helping pay into someone who is for killing babies. If I'm playing elevation worship or hillsong those are bands and songs that glorify God. If I'm playing billie Ellis who is openly an atheist what message is that sending? I understand U2 but even in the song it says "but I still haven't found what I'm looking for" ...... what message is that sending
But you’re paying money to be able to perform that song. Every time you buy the rights to a song, you support that artist, and that artists might support abortion. Might be a pagan, etc.
Your argument is incredible flawed. There is no precedent for this.
For everyone who thinks this church is replacing worship with secular music is off. They have a full worship set list every single week and every second of church is focused on God. They play one secular song right before the sermon that's tied to the message. This church isn't focused on catering to the pious, it's focused on seeking and saving those who are lost. Some would argue that's a "seeker" move, but I also kind of wonder what other churches are doing if they're not focusing on those who are lost. But I can tell you this - whether you agree with it or not won't change it. People come to Christ every single week through this church, they receive grace, they grow, and they change. This church has permanent missions all over the world and operates on one of the slimmest budgets; they're being good stewards with what they're given. They're criticized all the time, but, trust me, they can take it. Until you've gone to this church and see what they're about, you have no grounds to call it evil, lost, immoral, or false. I've seen a lot of false people in churches that play by all the "right" rules. So, if you disagree and care enough to comment on this, pray for them instead of throwing dirt, because that's what a real christian would do.
Jennifer you are so off the mark. You dont glorify God by using worldly means. Read about why God did not accept cains sacrifice.
So he starts the service off with satanic worship...because all music is a form of worship. If it's not worshipping God it's worshipping the devil. So that's great. Excuses will not be accepted on judgment day and those who take up for those who are taking people to hell with them are just as bad as those doing the deeds. We are to leave this worldy stuff behind and definitely includes the worlds music. Full surrender to Christ not just what we feel like. Don't believe me, go see what God has to say about light and darkness mixing together. Those who love the things of this world do not belong to God.
Praise and worship music in a church, is for one reason. To give glory to God. It's not about us ... it's about God. The bible says we were created for His glory. Replacing praise and worship with secular cover songs, doesn't do this, and it's blasphemous to do so. Many of the modern churches are just trying to hard to be "cool". When someone comes off the street to attend a church, they want meat. They just lost their job, or are strung out on drugs, or are homeless or lost a loved one. The last thing they want, is to come to a church, and hear the same music, they heard the night before in the bar. Run from churches that do this.
They don't replace it. Flatirons has a full worship set every single week. They play one song that ties into the sermon each week.
Early church hymns were sung over secular tunes. And it's happened that way ever since.
TL;DR -- This is the kind of behavior and mindset that kept me from God for over half of my life. You are the kind of person who specifically fuels the distrust and hatred of all things God-related by your judgment and admonishment of everything that does not fit your own personal paradigm of what and how anyone can approach God. You are _not_ God's gatekeeper, and the Christ who was would not be saying what you are. After all, He ate with sinners and spent much time with them. Open your Bible and figure out what Christ did that you are not.
I wonder, where is this "knowledge" you have found in the Bible? I've read it a few times, and studied it with a well-respected biblical scholar who is known around the globe, and yet have found not a single thing that said what "songs" or "music" is "right" for the church of God. If you are at the church to learn about God, and you are not Christian, this is something small you can connect with; something that brings from your elements in a place where everything is foreign and outside of your element.
Christ dined with and spent most of his time with sinners for a reason -- to meet them where they were, not where anyone thought they should be. Take your God-less human plans of what you think is appropriate in reaching out to those who are lost, and throw them in the garbage -- in the end, they are worth as much.
Paul said that we are free in all things -- which includes music in our churches. If it brings a person in, or helps them to see that we, too, are humans living in modern times. That could be the start of what helps those coming in who do not know Christ to look past human flaws and to The One that we look towards and are supposed to put our heart towards daily. That, in the end, is one of the highest forms of worship; bringing the lost to the God who can redeem them. In the end, God would rather you seek out a single lost person than to spend efforts on the 99 righteous. Perhaps people of this mindset should read their Bible with a little more wisdom and thought, and ask themselves, "What Would Jesus _Actually_ Do?"
As for those who are already saved, do tell, how much real connection do they have with the world if they are as sheltered as you would have them be? You cannot understand a culture that you are entirely disconnected from. In and not of the world means that you understand and see the world around you, but do not behave or live your life like they do, or with the same principles.
For many in the crowd who are "uber religious", they likely have no concept of the music and mentality that modern music carries -- they are sheep who stay with the other sheep, and have no knowledge outside of their little group. And _that_ is the worst place that a Christ-follower can be, because there is no way to bridge the gap. Praying for people and preaching at them randomly _DOES NOTHING_ . Christ approached people with love, not judgment and derision. Consider your methods against His, and determine to do better -- else, you will not be the "good and faithful servant" you believe yourself to be.
What _would_ Jesus do?
Psalm 33:3
Know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Only One Way
Are you politically active? Did you vote in the last Presidential election?
That's not True you Hypocrite
@@Dragon-Catracho James 4:4
@@onlyoneway205 God is Love not Hate. So stop being Ignorant and a Hypocrite and Shut up. And I already read that verse and I don't care. James wrote that and he's not God
Paul is not telling you to conform to world or glorify the artists or your coverband talent to reach the world for Christ. First, worship is about praising God for who he is! not your cover band talent. The world needs to see a church dedicated to following Christ (His way not yours) Pastor you need to repent. Are you one of those churches for people who dont like church? Romans 1:16-18. says the Gospel message is the power of God to salvation. Not an appeasment to the world. Is it just about numbers to you? Is it numbers that make a church successful? You need to do one of three things. 1. Start peaching the Gospel and actually worship Christ in your praise music and not be afaraid if people leave, 2. Take church out of your org name cause your not being one and have Sunday afternoon coverband concerts or 3. Close your doors cause your not a church as you are right now. At least that way your not leading people astray. Will be praying for you.
Wow...please ask God to open your eyes.
This is a hot take
I know in my heart many songs that are "secular" were written and inspired by the the love of Jesus... Jesus is much much bigger than some people give him credit for. Boxing his music up in a Genre is Niave in my opinion. There are msny gifted musicians and it is God himself who gave them the gift. Living in fear of secular music is not my bag.
It’s places like this that are leading non discerning Christians into so much false doctrine. I pray that the leadership at Flatirons church will actually start teaching biblical truth instead of twisting God’s word to fit their agenda. Until this church turns from its blatantly false teaching, it is definitely to be avoided but keep in prayer
What does the yellow light mean ?
One of the questions for those of us who are in Christ in our lives towards those caught up in the snare of the Advesary involved within & those in spiritual slavery of the Industry: Will we reach down & lend them a helping hand? And truly offer our Saviour Jesus Christ & his finished work to rescue from the pit of destruction? Or will we make the most troubling mistake in the eyes of our own Saviour by two counter-opposite & self-destructive solutions? Number one: Throwing stones of condemnation. This has happened too many times in the Evangelical church in times past to the so-called fundamental church in this day & age. In the sense that they decry it legalisticly; and in doing so, without any valid bases of wisdom & understanding; and doing NOT at all out of a genuine concern & loving kindness of wanting to lend help to the spiritually hurting. But rather, their actions are done out of control & condemnation; And the old it's wrong, just because "...I said so..." kind of mentality.
But in correspondence with previous solution is number two: Simply joining the industry at their retaliation against the Authority of God & His Holy Scripture: on the industry's level of open rebellion steeped in evil, destruction, & illicit sexuality in almost every expression. As we've already seen in this presentation: this has been very prominent in the mainstream Evangelical Mega-churches for around the past 20 or so years.
Because as we've already seen, in a growing percentage of Evangelical Megachurches today, much of what is being openly taught in the name of public worship concerning the manner in which it is being abused within the body of Christ: By their own admissionable account: does NOT come from in the sense being inspired in light of nor directed from the Scriptures. But rather, the situation is just merely a representation of the open & wilfull embracement of latest methods & messages of popular & mainstream entertainment churned-out by an industry that is rooted in rebellion against God & His Holy Scriptures. In today's spiritual landscape of Evangelical Christianity, many of the "heroes" looked up to by some of today's worship leaders & those in charge of youth-ministries are often seen on MTV & other media-stations; who are not only merely the antithesis of meekness & dependance upon God & His holy Scripture; but also in some cases of which are open followers & devouties of the Occult.
Even those within the landscape of Evangelical Christiandom's voluntary attempts of toeing the line of reaching a hurt & unbelieving world: by embracing the spiritual sludge to crawl out of the sewer of the industry: is not only very unnecessary but also fundamentally flawed. Take, for example, this export from Jim Burgen's video "Why Secular Music?" In this, he states the following: "But given with our level of creativity: What will leverage what God has told to do? Answer: everything's on the table. Everything that is in the world is on the table. Everything that we can lay our hands on that we can redeem... It's not that there a chapter or verse saying "That's how you must do it in church." Most of the time we just like it that way."
Are we to believe that, in correspondence with following the herd instinct of the industry, that celebrating the pleasures of illicit sexuality & embracing the spirituality of the Occult is really going to help the world? Really? - Can we build with our left hand what our right hand seeks to destroy?
But stop and consider the bigger picture. Which is really the better solution to the world's problems: The Satanic Dionysusion Spirit laid upon the sinking sands of the industry that has churned out much of the material considered by the masses
to be "rock music"? Or Christ Jesus, the eternal Solid Rock of Ages? The multiple opportunities to see those within the structured assembly under the impression of evangelizing but only to selfishly indulge in the physical desires & to eventually strip-away the Authority of God & His Holy Scripture?
Or a generation of those redeemed in Christ who has stripped away the devil's lies and pretensions and are willing to dedicate their lives to the service of God and a hurting world? A crumb brushed from the lap of a multi-billion dollar industry; or an army of believers in Christ who are forever giving to others the money and energy they once spent in spiritual slavery to this industry?
Just as a bad tree cannot produce good fruit, so an industry rooted in rebellion against God and His Scripture can never bring forth that which is truly good. As Jesus himself said "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
And as Jesus said elsewhere: "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."
Any large Evangelical church or organization who is given over to embracing the Adversary's pretences under the misguided effort of merely using the methods of popular entertainment heavy laiden with humanistic & Satanic views of sexuality & spirituality which only in the end reaps sin & death: must come under question; and has good reason to, in heeding the warning of Jesus: "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." (Luke 9: 55)
It could also be merited to state that alot of youth-ministries & assemblies within established churches who somehow precieve that them using & embracing the methods & messages of popular entertainment(even going so far within the context of the secular framework) - In their misguided effort to evangelize an already spiritually dying world: Are doing nothing more than 1: Contributing to the weakening of the body of Christ; And number 2: Uprooting believers in Christ from being grounded in the Scripture & soundness of the faith.
In this the devil gains something that from his much larger perspective is of much greater value: A multitude who is willing to eventually give up on hope not only in life's meaning and simple faith in God's love: But ultimately His power to save through the simplicity of the Gospel by the foolishness of preaching.
What is even more remarkable about much the material of popular entertainment, particularly in the secular context: is that while most of the groups readily acknowledge and even embrace its open spirituality; yet in the meantime most assemblies in the Body of Christ embrace the same material second-handed, but with the insistence that it is ultimately Christian in its orientation. This is very significant because scripture makes it clear that the purest manifestation of the anti-Christ spirit always comes, not from without, but from within the context of Christianity.
Church is a holy place where we worship Jesus and praise him.
Not a place where we sing some secular songs and to justify that telling that the song is good!
Why U people are singing those songs in a church?
U can sing them but don't do that in a Church!
Do You all remember the moment when Jesus got angry when people were unnecessary activities around the church!
If you wanna sing those songs, sing! But don't include 'em with Church.
Buddy most churches play secular music in their services
Everything??? This person is even telling us to include the ways of Satan. In other words, he is speaking the same as those whom say that there are many ways to Heaven, that Jesus isn't the only way. -- - - - Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
I see his point, the world does raise fantastic questions through media, however Philippians 4:8 is very clear of the virtues we are to think of, and secular music is the antithesis of the virtues of Christ. Take the song: Work From Home for example, it's a fantastically crafted and vocalized piece of art, however it is completely about premarital sex and the overarching message that women need a hot man in their life to use them. So sure you can listen to secular music and say "it's asking a fantastic question, and through it we can tell the world about the actual answer," however the message of it is imbedded in our heads and is indoctrinating us at the same time, therefore we are conforming to the things of this world so that we may be able to tell the people of this world the very one who called us out of the world. As a Christian we are supposed to look different from the world, and by listening to the propaganda of the world we are therefore conforming to the nature of the world, which Jesus clearly teaches against. So with all that said I gave you a specific verse that directly attacks the ideology behind secular music that is telling you it is not Spiritual to listen to this time of music. (Philippians 4:8) Your argument is basically the same as the homosexuals argument that Jesus never tells us homosexuality is a sin. Just because it is never specifically mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean that the ideology isn't. The Bible is perfectly clear on this matter. You can call me an extremist all you want, but Jesus was an extremist and He demands that if we are to follow Him we are to be extreme.
Austin Kimmell Philippians 4;8 is mostly misused to filter out our media that we take in Paul didn't even have secular music in mind when writing this verse so it wouldn't be scripturally accurate to quote Philippians 4:8 as a condemnation of secular music...
That verse talks more about being spiritually focused and confirms to God way by obeying him and meditating on him.. This verse doesn't literally say to cut out anything that isn't lovely praiseworthy or true... If that were true then this would mean its a sin to watch the news about a tornado striking a state and you see all the damaged homes.. Is this lovely and praiseworthy?? No..
@@juliuscox94 Utilizing "secular" music(depending upon the nature of the content): for the purpose of entertainment in the context of the assembly is simply not a valid reason what the fellowship of the believers in Christ is for in the first place. The kind of music that by its very spiritual nature & vibe that's not in accordance with being in reflection of the glorious attributes of God: To be performed for the purpose of entertaining a mixed multitude: Is simply NOT how the church functions as the Body of Christ. Though I'm not the kind of individual who would say, you know, that ALL music in the secular context is directly "Inspired by the Devil." But you know what? That in accordance with Ephesians 5:19 & Colossians 3:16: What IS or at least what SHOULD be the purpose & nature of music in the Body of Christ? Because Ephesians 5:19 as well as Colossians 3:16 informs us & implies what music is to be used in worship & assembly is just as important whether or not there even is any music at all.
A pastor who is confused with the difference between discussions outside of the worship gathering and what worship is supposed to be: centered solely on God. Revelation chapters 4 and 5 give a clear example of the harmonious worship between heaven and earth (as in heaven, so on earth). Worship is centered on the throne, not on the likes or dislikes of human beings. The pastor's logic does not follow. He brings forth an argument from silence, while ignoring a whole-Bible biblical theology of worship from Genesis to Revelation. Furthermore, he takes a text out of context (not related to worship) to apply it freedom to do whatever in worship as long as it draws people. The foolish preaching of the cross, here, is not enough. Then, the pastor does the spiritual gaslighting ad hominem approach to those who would disagree by saying, " If you have a problem with this, you do not know people who are saved." Great argument!!! :-/
I know scores of Millennials and especially Gen Z who hate this approach by the church. They feel that worship is dumbed-downed, and they also believe that the church is trying to use bait-and-switch methods to get them to come. This might have worked with the Baby Boomers and ***maybe*** Gen X. Perhaps it works momentarily with the hard-to-please upper-middle class. But many younger people are actually more attracted to ancient forms of worship, rather than this mind-numbing, human-centered, so-called "worship experience." Sure, they may like secular music. But they would prefer to have the real entertainers do this well than have the church do it badly.
This is why we're losing this generation to other spiritualities out there. Because at the end of the day, they are entertaining themselves to death. They're searching for something "OTHER," but this church is too blind culturally and spiritually to see it.
The speaker said about secular songs "Truth they speak off comes directly from Jesus." That is a false statement. Biblical Truth leads people to Jesus which secular songs don't do. One of the purposes of the Church is to lead people to Jesus. Therefore the "truth" he speaks of from secular songs is not from Jesus.
All truth is from Jesus.
Reminds me of the church I used to attend---carnal, hardly different from the world around it, and oh, yea, "Jesus" was mentioned there. I'm sorry, but this makes my stomach upset, like I need to vomit. This is so disrespectful to YHWH, who calls us to be holy. He doesn't ask us to sing Styx songs.
7_Red are you perfect?
So, just because you are not perfect you are to do more and more sin..???
Nonsense..1!
He actually doesn’t ask us to sing Matt Redman or Hillsongs either, but it’s palatable to us because it keeps us comfortable, being comfortable is overrated in the church, we are never going to affect change in the world if we pretend it doesn’t exist.
If Christ is in it, the world will hate it (John 15:18-19). It seems many have a problem with the music, but what about other things that have found there way into our worship. Why is it ok to have xmas trees on our altars, something that God has called worthless (Jeremiah 10:3-4). And what about easter. Did you know we're told not to even say the names of other gods (Exodus 23:13), yet you give this sun god glory for the resurrection of Christ each time you say "happy easter". And who changed the Father's holy Sabbath to sun day in honor of the sun gods. The prophet Daniel told us who would be the one to do this (Daniel 7:25), yet we accept it without thought. So, if Christ is in it, the world will hate it. If Christ was in xmas the world would shun it, yet even atheists celebrate it, and the same with easter. I urge you to watch our teaching called: "Choose This Day", I think it will be a blessing to you.
Well, in theory, I don't have a problem with this. If you're genuinely utilizing any number of resources or cultural references in a way which genuinely gets the attention of non-Christians and you are THEN using that opportunity to preach a true gospel of repentance from Sin and acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour....go for it.
But are you? Or are you just creating soft fluffy pseudo-church with Gimmicks?
Listen to the messages, I truly believe they are doing it so that people listen to the message.
Flatirons main purpose is to seek and save the lost. They preach the Gospel, call sin sin, and motivate people who wouldn't normally darken the door of a church to give Jesus a chance. I found them during a very dark time in my life, following my husband's affair and subsequent divorce. Their recovery ministry helped me to not pick up a drink; their pastoral and counseling team ministered to me through my heartbreak, and their resources helped feed my daughter and fix my roof as a struggling single mom. I will always be thankful for pastor Jim and the Flatirons staff and members.
To call FICC a church is like calling a hamburger a steak.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be FALSE TEACHERS among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1
I love the volume, the selection and the reason. Do all to the glory of GOD. Amen and amen!
Sour taste in my mouth.
Amen brother. Couldn't have said it better
@3:13 Every now and then, you get a crazy person raping and murdering people.. imagine if when they asked him "why did you do it" .. his response would have been that.... Makes you wonder if when angels sing praise to the Lord in heaven, they sing to him with songs related to anything but God. I'm no one to judge your practices.. but it does raise questions like these for me. Perhaps you have answers for it.
This is hollow and shallow. Reach the culture through their culture and all you'll produce are consumeristic mirrors of the culture you emulate.
So strippers are not out of the question? Since you don't believe in what they are doing and dang someone might "bump into Jesus?"
Just like the music and the artists, they aren't supporting their lifestyle, they're just having fun and acknowledging their existence. Jesus hung out with tax collectors and sinners, so of course I would hang out with a stripper. In fact, I have.
But Jesus didn't commit SIN..!!! Go and LEARN Bible, rather than just skimming..!!
Jerry Jose neither are these people just by playing secular music..
Soldier4777 it's happened before, you don't know everything.
A lot of y'all like to use the fact that Jesus hung out with tax collectors as an excuse. Jesus didn't just hang with them alone, no. He was a positive influence. He told Matthew- "Follow me". Sure he ate with him but there was an end game. There's a difference between hanging out with a stripper because you want to be a positive influence on their life and playing Van Halen to the people who you're supposed to minister songs of grace to. It's not the same. Jesus would have hung out with Eminem because he like he did with the publicans, he'd want Eminem to follow him. Hanging out with them without purposefully and patiently letting God use you to influence their life positively is basically a waste of time. Don't take one part of the scripture and leave out the other. That being said, remember when people were selling in the temple and Jesus over-turned their tables and took them out of the temple? God's house shall be a place of prayer. God inhabits the praise of his people, how does being friends with the monster under your bed spur your fellow Christian brothers to praise God?
1.Everything is not on the table, though we are not bound by Law according to the Old Testament, we are bound by love of God --( Read Rom 8:31-39).
2. Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God-this is your true and proper worship. (True Nature of worship - Rom 12:1)
3. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will, (Rom 12:2), [do not conform to the world]
4. Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them. For everything in the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. (1 John 2:15-17), [do not love the world so as to follow it]
5. "I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." (Luke 19:40)
6. Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it ‘a den of robbers. (Mathew 21:13).
7. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 (do not deny the power of God)
I usually never comment on any video posted, but I was pushed for this one. Wish I lived in that time when people gave everything for the ministry, and had a fire for God!!!
T
Ooooooh man your thinking is wrong!!!!!
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15
I’m not even a christian, but this preacher is leading his church In unchristian ways ,,,, doesn’t your Bible say don’t be like the “world”
Yes it does! This preacher right here is deceived into thinking that playing worldy music in church is okay. But he is just fulfilling scripture..
1 Timothy 4:1
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
For playing different loud music?! Ridiculous. Wake up, most Christian traditions mimic pagan practices and holidays. The bible was also written by a women hating Arab nation that felt they were less than and still do, it's outdated, just like stoning children and killing your neighbor for
working on the Sabbath. Bible also condemned sex for pleasure, only for procreation. And poly blend clothing, eating pork or shellfish.
@@jazz_savedbygrace_6077 it says no such thing. U are reading into texts to fit your agenda. It literally says nothing about playing music. Playing music is not the devil. Come on
Secular≠ Worldly
But God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and told Adam not to eat of it......
En los ultimos dias vendran falsos profetas y predicadores, apartaos de ellos, pues no todo el que me diga señor señor es mi ciervo.
“Bump into Jesus?” One should do more than “bump” into Him at church. That’s the problem with your philosophy. It’s one thing to say it’s ok to listen to that music, it’s quite another to dedicate worship time to anything less than full worship of the Lord. If you’re worried that the church isn’t asking questions that need to be asked, how about you address those in your message? You’re the pastor, right? Playing secular music instead of worship music when sheep are coming to worship the Lord will all their heart, soul and strength is being a poor shepherd. You’re worried more about appealing to the goats than the sheep.
FREEBIRD!!
This is nothing but strange fire. You know, the kind of worship Nadab and Abihu gave to the Lord and it was NOT the prescribed worship God had commanded. God struck them DEAD.
Yeah don’t be a part of the wild parties but the music that they were playing there you bring that into the church and glorify me with it haha
Where does it say that in the Bible?
King David used secular music. Stop being a Pharisee and throwing stones at people. I agree that worship music is best but as long as secular music isn’t super vulgar I don’t have an issue
:(
He is lying about the use of pagan sayings by Paul. He misquote the text. Then he lies and says that we, the Church, won't ask the hard questions. WE DO. From sex to baby murder, we deal and answer ALL THE HARD QUESTIONS OF LIFE but unlike him, we answer with the Holy Scripture in context.
This disappoints me😕. Songs that raises questions could be discussed in Bible Study. There are some things you just don’t use to usher in pure worship to the Lord. But nothing is new under the sun and people have always tried to justify anything using the Bible. God clearly says that we are to be (holy)” set apart” from the world (1 Peter 2:9). The church house is no longer concerned about salvation but rather now, numbers.
We are set apart by Christ, not by the music we listen to.
@@wilsonw.t.6878 Yeah sure... whatever, you know. But though of course we are not necessarily set apart by what we merely listen to in & of itself. But you know what? But it could be very well be the case that the kind of entertainments that one allows into their heart & mind could merely be the symptom, or a mere reflection of how much they allowed Christ to set them apart from the course of this fallen system. One of the things I can suggest to you instead of dodging & beating around the bush of reality. What I mean is that this should be not reframing the discussion about what people listen to on a personal & private level; which primarily between them & God anyway. But rather, this should be kept within the realistic context of the topic matter that many megachurches in this day & age are openly embracing the methods & messages of an industry that is rooted in rebellion against the authority of God and His Holy Scripture.
If Christ is in it, the world will hate it (John 15:18-19). It seems many have a problem with the music, but what about other things that have found there way into our worship. Why is it ok to have xmas trees on our altars, something that God has called worthless (Jeremiah 10:3-4). And what about easter. Did you know we're told not to even say the names of other gods (Exodus 23:13), yet you give this sun god glory for the resurrection of Christ each time you say "happy easter". And who changed the Father's holy Sabbath to sun day in honor of the sun gods. The prophet Daniel told us who would be the one to do this (Daniel 7:25), yet we accept it without thought. So, if Christ is in it, the world will hate it. If Christ was in xmas the world would shun it, yet even atheists celebrate it, and the same with easter. I urge you to watch our teaching called: "Choose This Day", I think it will be a blessing to you.
There is no love in these things only lust
If you look hard enough, you will find flaws in everything that doesn’t fit your narrative.
there is a reason why they don't want you to listen to that music becuase religion as a whole is afraid that people might think for themselves and lose faith in there religion. it's kind of like I have hungout around people who smoked and used drugs and I have never used drugs just becuase I hang out with them doesn't mean I'm one of them. people you need to think for yourselves and relies that humans don't have all the answers.... and that's fine that's how you search and find better answers by admitting you don't know. there is a reason I never start out my sentence "as and atheist" becuase most people already start forming a judgment in there head or skip the comment all together, all I ask is start thinking for yourself and question everything even the big bang even scientist question everything even there own theory's , that's how they fond truth they don't just read a book and accept it if it has unlogical holes in it they fill the holes with truth.
Does that mean I can commit adultery to the glory of God?
That's exactly what I think, since everything is on the table. This dude is soooo wrong.
Greater Grace Well that's different because adultery is clearly laid out as a sin according to Gods law...
Some things in the bible are not laid out as a sin.. When that's the case you can do it as long as your not breaking Gods law.. Do you understand???
So what commandment did God gave regarding secular music??
And beating our children, shooting up heroine, drinking beer during the service, and watching Baywatch during the service are all on the table. That's how we point people to the Father.
How about Christian alternatives instead? Apologetix makes Christian parodies of secular to spread the gospel. There's also Skillet, Thousand Foot Krutch, Nine Lashes, Tobymac, and so on.
Be not conformed to this world. You're argument is very flawed. There's no way you can witness to the unsaved when you act as they do.
Hi Sydney, so would you disagree with Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:22 & 23 when he says; "To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." This is essentially what Pastor Jim is saying here. Have a good one.
+Shield of Faith & Biblical Reasoning & Discernment- I saw your comment posted above earlier and I didn't respond because, generally, there is no reasoning with the self righteous. But because it didn't get the response you were looking for and you moved it down to include me, I'll bite.My guess is that you have not bothered to attend this church or at least listen to a full service that can be found on their web-site before posting this comment. I also would think that if you did tune in, you'd listen just long enough to find something to take out of context to support your way of thinking. To those that look into this church with earnest intentions, will find that it is a Biblical based church that teaches both grace and truth and the example you gave of the church youth performance is not relevant to this church.It may be unorthodox to play secular music in church in your opinion, but the goal is to bring people to Christ. In my 9 years of attending Flatirons Community Church, I have seen literally thousands of people baptized and I've personally heard testimony that the music was one of the main reasons that brought people to the church. To a degree, the music (and the Holy Spirit) gave them an opportunity to hear the message that God loves them and wants a relationship with them. If you have a problem with unorthodox ministry, you might also take issue with Jesus's controversial practices at the time of conversing with women, dinning with "sinners" and working/ ministering on the Sabbath. All of these were done in an effort to bring lost and broken people into a relationship with him.It is my opinion that your message contradicts itself. On one hand you confirm that salvation cannot be lost or stolen and yet on the other hand I get the sense that you are implying that the pastor and members of this church are sinning in a way that excludes them from being Christian and therefore are not saved. Which is it? Are we saved by grace through faith in Jesus OR by presenting our resume, living a good life and our actions? As the old knight at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade says, "You must choose, but choose wisely." Of course, you may not have seen that movie because it is neither from the Spirit, nor communicates in a psalm, hymn, or song as you mentioned from Ephesians 5:19.I find it interesting that you are on here promoting your channel, which I presume you financially benefit from in some form or fashion. I'd ask you to consider your intentions before commenting and bashing followers of Christ that are trying to bring a message of hope to others that may not have heard the gospel. It reminds me of when Jesus overturned the money changer tables at the temple when they were creating obstacles and barriers to the people from having an authentic relationship to God.I intend this to be my only response to this string, so I leave you to have the last word, which I'm sure you will no doubt seize.Have a blessed day,
+Roe's Riot
Hey man, I stumbled onto the web site: (Finally, a Pastor gets it right about gay marriage)... Love every thing he said and am an abate listener to what I can find on you-tub.... On Flatirons Church sites. I am blessed every time I.. (tune in / and turn on)... The computer...Lol!
+Sydney Jones agreed. some Secular Music will remind them of sinful life before they came to christ. there was time when everyone in the church would be upset if they play secular music in church. For church is house of pray that need be respected. that was age when people felt that please god was most important and please man.
Playing music is not being conformed to the world, it's just playing music. It's enjoyable. God created it that way.
The close minded negative ppl that fight change need to stop denying the truth. We all know that old world music is extremely boring and puts nearly everyone under 30 to sleep at church for decades now and is only getting worse as it's so outdated. If people can't stay awake, the complete sermon is lost, so something needs to change, the music. This is why Baptist churches pull in more younger followers. Catholic churches need to get with the times and evolve to appeal to millennials and younger.
What is real worship? Music and singing that exalts God...NOT human emotions, not worldly wants and desires!! He really misses the mark by saying all music is worship music if we do it in the name God to draw unsaved people to his church....they will be comfortable knowing he doesn't ask them to give up worldly music....this is NOT real worship.
Everything’s on the table as long as you do it to the glory of God wow the devil is just rubbing his hands together! he got you!
No. This is false doctrine what this pastor is preaching. Do not be deceived, my friend.
Yes, Satan LOVES Flatirons!
@@Timbrock1000 u never been to flatiron. playing music that doesn't put ppl to sleep is not evil.
@@solosamuraiz1526
I have been there twice.
As for the music, it is inappropriate to play secular music (some of which has questionable lyrics) during praise and worship.
Such a time is for glorifying our Lord, not man.
There is a plethora of upbeat worship songs to employ. In fact, their lyrics are far more stirring and moving than the secular songs from FICC.
The cornball "pastor" even admits they play some songs because they are "awesome".
Secular music isn't necessary bad. But it doesn't belong in the place of worship.
My even bigger issue with FICC and the pastor is how the "Prosperity gospel" is used.
Now, if you are an attender (they don't even have a formal membership) of FICC, I would highly advise you go find a REAL church where they actually preach the Gospel, and actually warn people of a place called Hell, I'd be glad to give you a list of such churchs in the area.
When you're ready for a real church, and not just a feel-good Ted Talk, let me know.
1) That is not even the context of the passage. This pastor has lied to hiscongregation, imposing that those verses are in regards to Church structure and function, when it is actually about going to an unbeliever's home and eating food sacrificed to gods. In all honesty, this passage could be used more against what this church is trying to do, as Paul is actually encouraging believers to go out and meet with non-believers, rather than bring them into the gathering of the saints, which is what this church is doing. It's okay to be partially seeker-friendly, we do not want to be too secluded, but this is an extreme, detached from God's purpose of the church as how to function.
2) No Scripture is given as to how a church should function, and the pastor is almost implying that since we are Christians, anything is free game. But Scripture tells us how. We are told to admonish one another in wisdom through psalms, hymns, songs of praise and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude from your hearts (Col 3:16). I do not know about you, but I am pretty sure Paul did not have Lynard Skynard in mind when he says "psalms, hymns, songs of praise, and songs from the Spirit. Also, when it is said that we do songs because sometimes it's an awesome song, that is giving more praise to the songwriters than to God. I believe it can be argued that in singing secular music with no adoration to God, the first commandment is being broken at every service this church holds. It is giving more praise to worldly songwriters than to the beauty of Christ and the Gospel.
3) The last few minutes gives the real answer. This practice of secular music in the church service is a response to dead and soulless fundamental churches that behave more pharisaical than Jesus loving, although they have a cross in their church and sing the hymns. To that I say AMEN. But it is clear in the passion of speaking, that the motive of this church is not spiritual or theological, but reactionary. This sounds more like the young man who thinks he is doing okay because at least he is not as bad as 'those other guys', but then the mother reminds him that he shouldn't compare himself to others, but compare himself to Christ. This church is the young man. Compare yourself to Scripture, not the dead fundy church down the street.
Boy he sure is perverting scripture.
This guy is lost
Did you just listen to 10 seconds of the video and then decide to waste your time on a pointless comment?
If you don’t like it, it’s really not that hard to NOT attend services at this Church. You just have to make an effort to avoid driving there and walking in the building and sitting down at certain times on Saturdays and Sundays.
When will you have strippers as part of worship if everything is on the table?
That's jumping to an extreme. Playing music that is with the times is way diff. It's not a secret, churches that play old outdated music people under their 30s fall asleep. It's more common than ever, something needs to change or the message is completely lost.
lanes58 amen ... I really don't know what's going on with that "building" (notice I didn't use "church"... We the people are the church. THOSE CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE. Living and walking with Christ are the church) a "building" that houses both praise/worship songs directed to the LORD and savior Jesus Christ together with music that gratifies "self" is that what's going on now??? You should be ASHAMED.... NEWS FLASH worship directed to God the Lord Boss Master Ruler King Lion of Judah Prince Of Peace The One Who Is And Is To Come. NEWS FLASH Praise should not be gratifying towards us and whether or not I like the beat or not. I will sing an old worship hymn with all my heart instead of being like a dog who returns back to his own vomit (And that which you are doing: singing Bruno Mars is an example of returning to your own vomit) Jesus was angered when he saw people making the temple a market place! DO NOT SELL YOURSELF SHORT FOR WORLDLY PLEASURES. Those who have ears will listen to God's voice. His sheep recognize his voice and follow! "how good the music sounds to us" May the LORD have mercy on your soul. What mix does light have with darkness? You think we are going to sing Kendrick Lamar DNA in heaven? NO! Do not be foolish. In the name of Jesus Christ WAKE UP! The LORD God doesn't want lukewarm Followers of Christ. "One foot in and one foot out". The Lord rebuke you and send you back to the depths of from which you came with that lie. God will look you dead in the eyes on judgement day and spit you out because you don't know fear, reverence, and respect for his name. Do you not know? That God is good, God is Love. God is not a lets get this many likes on fb or this many views on you tube kind of God. I pray the Lord does his will.
Can you imagine what kind of message this pastor is giving 'Christians' and unbelievers?
Do You Agree With This Pastor? I DON'T. He gives Paul as an example but Paul quoted a poet who said something true (Acts 17:28). This church wants to play secular music that is contrary to God's truth and argue that as long as we give thanks and do it for God's glory, WHATEVER we do, say or sing or is just all right with God.
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" (Romans 6)
"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things." (Phillipians 4)
And yet they stay away from sinful secular music. Listen to the songs they use NOT lustful, sex-filled, drug-filled that other secular music is like.
You do realize that music is a matter where the Christian must act with conviction. King David used secular music.
All these entertainment venues that claim to be Christian...they get worse by the day...this is idolatry, plain and simple.
By playing these secular songs, I feel this gives newer Christians who may not yet have the spiritual discernment the go ahead to freely listen to other songs by these same secular artists that I guarantee you are NOT glorifying to God. Just the opposite, in fact. Regularly listening to some of these secular artists is a slippery slope that can easily lead to a path away from God.
umm...no! 1st of all your exposing your congregation and worship leaders to songs that dont glorify God but also songs that talk about selling one's song to satan. you're trying to hard to fit in. how does a song about killing a man and selling your soul speak a truth about jesus just how????
really WRONG
If you don't believe God can use secular music to reach people than perhaps your perception of God is small.
Great point, Jordan.
As a worship leader I assure my perception of God's word is not small. My point is God can and will use anything to reach a particular individual.
Then why don't your "highly perception" God use liquor, drugs to save or to reach those wicked...???
Did God tell you that he would use anything to reach a particular individual..?
It's through us the people that God works to reach ppl. And it's not just your typical "Christian" that He will use. He will use those that are not saved as well. So, to answer your question for instance, could God not use someone in a bar to reach people. I used to play in a rock cover band, we of course would play local bars from time to time. Now as a Christian playing in a secular band at the time do you think God couldn't use me to reach somebody hanging out in a volitile place like a bar drinking liquor perhaps?
Read the whole Bible Dude
I Can See How They Can Try To Give A Spiritual Spin On Some Of Their Song Choices Or Use It As A Springboard To A Message. 'Fly Like An Eagle' Was Probably A Good Choice. Paul Did Something Similar To Reach More Folks (1 Cor. 9), But He Didn't Commit Adultery To Reach Adulterers. IOW, There Are Limits, There Has To Be.
These Songs They Sing At CZcams Don't Appear To Lead To A Sermon At CZcams, In Fact It Seems That They've Made An Effort To Keep The Sermons Off Of CZcams.
Most Folks That Listen To These Songs Can't Get To Their Church In Colorado, To Hear Their Attempted Justification Of Their Song Choices.
'Uptown, Funk You Up'? C'mon Really, Does Someone Need To Instruct Them In The Basics?
This Is Clearly A Play On The Words, 'F*ck You Up...
'Blinded By The Light' Sounds Like Code For Pimps And Whores.
"8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me-put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you." (Philippians 4)
Why Not Rewrite These Songs And Give Them Better Words. You Can Do That Due To The Fair Use Act.
Then There's Another Song With The Comments Disabled, Because The Comments Were So Bad, Which Has Words Which I Would Like To Hear How One Can Give A Spiritual Slant To A Song That Appears To Glorify Immorality. It's Called 'Take Me To Church' Which Is About Sexual Immorality Not Going To Church.
"11 Have NOTHING TO DO WITH FRUITLESS DEEDS OF DARKNESS, but rather EXPOSE THEM. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret." (Ephesians 5:11)
Could You Help Me With This?
Take Me To Church:
My lover's got humour
She's the giggle at a funeral
Knows everybody's disapproval
I should've worshipped her sooner
If the Heavens ever did speak
She is the last true mouthpiece
Every Sunday's getting more bleak
A fresh poison each week
'We were born sick, ' you heard them say it
My church offers no absolutes
She tells me 'worship in the bedroom'
The only heaven I'll be sent to
Is when I'm alone with you
I was born sick, but I love it
Command me to be well
Amen. Amen. Amen
Take me to church
I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies
I'll tell you my sins and you can sharpen your knife
Offer me that deathless death
Good God, let me give you my life
Take me to church
I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies
I'll tell you my sins and you can sharpen your knife
Offer me that deathless death
Good God, let me give you my life
If I'm a pagan of the good times
My lover's the sunlight
To keep the Goddess on my side
She demands a sacrifice
To drain the whole sea
Get something shiny
Something meaty for the main course
That's a fine looking high horse
What you got in the stable?
We've a lot of starving faithful
That looks tasty
That looks plenty
This is hungry work
Take me to church
I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies
I'll tell you my sins and you can sharpen your knife
Offer me that deathless death
Good God, let me give you my life
Take me to church
I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies
I'll tell you my sins and you can sharpen your knife
Offer me that deathless death
Good God, let me give you my life
No masters or kings when the ritual begins
There is no sweeter innocence than our gentle sin
In the madness and soil of that sad earthly scene
Only then I am human
Only then I am clean
Amen. Amen. Amen
Take me to church
I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies
I'll tell you my sins and you can sharpen your knife
Offer me that deathless death
Good God, let me give you my life
Take me to church
I'll worship like a dog at the shrine of your lies
I'll tell you my sins and you can sharpen your knife
Offer me that deathless death
Good God, let me give you my life
Welcome to the compromising church… Not about Jesus… you worship the idol of creative methodology. Cool churches don’t save people, the Holy Spirit does. Where do you see Jesus compromising to “look like the world” to save someone? You don’t have to look and sound like the lost to love them and share the truth of the Gospel with them.
None of those songs glorify God. You're wrong Pastor
But he said that it doesn't matter if the song mentions God or not. He said because the song speaks questions that most church are too afraid to speak
@@christianimmanuel2758 what church is afraid to answer worldly questions? If he needs songs to do that then he has failed as a Pastor. People come to worship God, not U2 or Lady Gaga.
@@christianimmanuel2758 this Pastor has conformed to the world and as Christians we absolutely should be calling him out for it. He's got baby christians going to that place learning it's ok to smoke weed for the glory of God, sing songs about lust in a church....
@@joshuapratt805 Wait… do you seriously think listening to or singing songs is worshipping them? I just need to know before I ignore all future opinions from you
@@doctrolive absolutely. It's a place of worship and if you don't think someone in the audience wasn't worshipping during those songs you're wrong.....feel free to ignore me
No sir, the reason you play their music is because you want to entertain people & fill the seats! Compromise, compromise, compromise. Of course the unsaved will go because you are feeding the flesh. Just doing what your evil heart desires.
It's just a big show at Flatirons. It's the attractional model of evangelical church in the US.
If everything is okay to use in church would you show porn, it shows the act of love making and people enjoying it?
If playing secular songs that approve of sin is ok for the church, then why not sin itself? Because God has forgiven all sin, right, and the blood of Christ can cleanse me if I ask for forgiveness, right? so I'm gonna do all kinds of sins because, by the blood of Christ, my forgiveness is guaranteed, right? this dude is totally wrong. Somebody please teach about the power that words and music create on humans. And if it was that easy, how come the Holy Spirit decided to create music that only speaks of God and His Word? In that case, all of the church would've understood since the beginning that mixing worldly stuff and Godly stuff was ok, and no separation was needed. As a matter of fact I'm not going to any congregation now and I was seriously thinking of going to this church for the past 2 months since I live like 3 miles away and that's the reason I'm here watching these videos from them but I wanted to check out their music since i'm a musician myself and music is a big part of my life but I've haven't been able to go and I even felt bad why I couldn't all this time. Now I know and understand why the Lord doesn't want me to go there, to a place that appeals to the flesh when what I need is change. If I want to hear secular songs I'd rather go to a bar where secular bands play them way better than these guys anyways.
Hello everyone, this is Josiah here. I hope all is going well & okay with you all. Before I begin too much on anything, let me say this: I can honestly say that I am a music lover; but I am also primarily a musician of well over 16 years(been playing guitar since I was 10). Though I'm primarily a guitarist; but I also play bass & piano. And in addition: I can honestly say that I love & appreciate different kinds & varieties of musical expressions. To state that further: music is not only NOT a sin: music is primarily a gift from God & God therefore loves & encourages it for everyone. Let me state it like this: I can say for myself that I truly love & highly appreciate the God-given gift of music. So much so that I would hate to see that precious gift of music be misused if not outright abused to the point of being dragged through the mud like we see it in this day & age; that in the fitting of the Scripture: is a prophetic but weary & sad day & age we live in. And on the flip side: We as believers in Christ including myself ought to love people even more to the tremendous extent we would hate to see precious souls get caught up in a snare by the severe abuse of any God-given gift - as a weapon in the cold hands of the Adversary. But in correspondence with this though: I do not for one moment have any vented & misguided interest in attacking the gift & necessity of music itself or music as a whole. Any such act of a blanket condemnation is not only of a much trivial pursuit: Because such a thing as that would be ultimately wrong & defaming to the cause of Christ. Because this is not at all what this is really about. In addition: This has got nothing to do with personal upbringing. For I was not raised in a brittle & rigid so-called "fundamentalist" home. This has got nothing to do with musical upbringing. For I myself was raised with a broad spectrum of "contemporary" music. This has got nothing to do with personal opinions. For I seek not to have agenda: I just simply want the truth in addition to see things as they as are. This has got nothing to do with musical taste. Because as I stated earlier: For myself love & appreciate a whole broad spectrum of musical expressions. Because truth be told: I am really not at all some kind of so-called extreme & radical kook or krank who's out on the fringe. But rather: All I really am is just a fellow sinner who has been bought & redeemed by the Lord & Saviour Christ Jesus; & a believer in Christ who simply wants to submit to what the Bible teaches for this dispensation of the grace of God.
And in correspondence with that: Just one of the lessons we learn from Psalms 150, is that different & a variety of musical instruments can be used to glorify & praise our Saviour Christ Jesus. And that Psalm 150 is the affirmation of the given variety of instruments in usage in worship; and is not only overshadowed but ultimately endorsed in the New Testament.
In a mere small excerpt from an article, I wrote: "And in addition, in light of what all I have said: I am definitely not in any way against musical instruments - speaking particularly in the context of worship in the assembly of the Body of Christ. And as far as various instruments such as guitar & bass goes: there really nothing in the world or scripturally wrong with these things. There's even nothing wrong with a drum-set. I know it could be argued by some that these things could easily be misused if not outright abused. And that is most certainly true with any inanimate object. But still, there's nothing wrong with them. In addition, it could be said that musical instruments are not just any kind of "inanimate-object." Because Biblically speaking, according to the Scripture, musical instruments are things, though "...without life..."; but yet, "...hath breath giving sound." And the very fact that they are musical INSTRUMENTS meaning that they are merely tools: it's just how an individual utilises those tools."
Though I'm not necessarily at all the kind of individual that simplistically states along the lines: "ALL rock music is directly inspired by the Devil." Because as horrible as it may sound: It is rather obvious, that there's been enough of stereotypical "anti-rock diatribes" & "expose's". All I'm saying in light of the perspective that I don't know for sure whether or not that a few within the Body of Christ protesting has helped much at all. Because what the lost & if not, sometimes even those within the Body of Christ need is not another endless genealogy & lecture concerning any particular framework of some style of music; especially in the sense of decrying it legalistically by some technical standard. And I will say this also in all honesty: I'm not quite sure if men such as David Cloud has helped much on the matter for the Body of Christ concerning this.
What the majority of the Body of Christ really needs is number one: Is to be rooted & grounded in knowledge, wisdom & understanding on the simplicity of the Gospel of the grace of God. Because I personally & honestly believe the Gospel of the Grace of God truly is God's spiritual Remedy against the spiritual but lascivious riot that has swept the Body of Christ.
And in correspondence with is number two: What we as the Body of Christ need to do is to simply sumbit NOT ONLY to what the Scripture teaches as a whole: But ultimately to sumbit to what the Scripture teaches for this dispensation of the grace of God.
And both you all & I know it is stated according to the Holy Scripture that there has most certainly been a spiritual shifting; and if not, a drifting: from a soundness of faith rooted & grounded in the Gospel that is the spiritual foundation laid out for the model of the New Testament Body of Christ. And this departing from the soundness of faith firmly rooted in the Gospel of the grace of God: Will be one of the defining characteristics as this dispensation of grace closes before the Seven year Tribulation.
One of the things is: we as believers in Christ ought to have a firm but ultimately a sound Biblical understanding to guard ourselves against the wiles of the Devil. As John Khodabash, a dear brother in Christ once stated, "...we ought to know our enemy; & know his methods and know his ways - for our own protection."
There is no point in denying that there has been a great abundant evidence that the great majority of the world of contemporary music can be summed up in the title of a upcoming video: Notes From The Underground Within The Industry: The Contemporary Revivalism of The Ancient Satanic Cult of Dionysus.
For a brief history check, let me give you all a little background that has been leading up to this day & age. For example: Though I gracefully & crucially understand that the industry must indeed get a lot of "flack." But however, on the other hand, it must be understood for both parties for one example: It was in part the contemporary music industry that has made pornographic-related material more acceptable to the mainstream audience. Borderline sexually-fetishistic & debased material that could only once be found in adult book & video stores has now long since found its way into the music video stations televised straight into the living rooms of countless family households. No longer the outcries of censorship-bans regarding the age-restricted web-pages & burlesque shows: Because a multitude of millions have been caught up in its seductive sway led in the dance of the chief harlot spirit who's feet take hold on hell. These of today's mainstream artist's music videos live-actioned onto on-stage performances who's concert tickets are now publically marketed & sold to a wide range of audiences of all groups & ages. For some, at least according to a small number of performers, song writers, producers, choreographers & marketers as well as a number of a few cult-fan followers of this entertainment: It's just merely a matter of having what they call sassiness, style, spunk, flashiness & being edgy. But no matter what kind of cloak of dishonesty it may be attempted to be hid under: The vast majority of these contemporary music artists have become the moral equivalent of prostitutes in the supernaturally revived temple of the ancient Satanic cult of Dionysus.
According to apparent former Luciferian & Occultist, John Todd, who described the contemporary phenomenon of rock music as "...the worst thing that the Occult world has ever planned out & carried out." Like an invisible cancer that inevitably leads to death: so the satanic seed in once planted in the barren ground of contemporary music has culminated in a blatant obsession with the occult. Cryptic allusions to the devil in the music of blues artist Robert Johnson a generation ago have given place to an open worship of Satan and hell that comes complete with the symbols, liturgies, rituals and messianic personalities that attend any religious order. No longer the stuff of small underground cults, millions of young people have been caught in its evil sway. Speaking from the perspective as a former insider of the industry, in his book "From Darkness To Light", Jeff Fenholt speaks not only of the fact "...that there is Satanism in the heavy rock scene;" But ultimately in addition, that: "...Satanism runs long, hard & deep and is the basic undergirdings of all rock music." Beginning with the most well-known, many groups within the heavy metal genre have popularized blatant, no-holds-barred Satanism and witchcraft in their music, album covers, and stage shows. Most are seldom heard outside of small cult followings to where a few have made it into the big time. Whether directly or indirectly, however, this type of music and the spiritual forces that attend it have made their mark on contemporary culture. What was once unthinkable, it now not only sung about and considered, it is at times even embraced and acted upon.
There are also things concerning the music industry that are getting progressively worse & worse; yet in mean time there are assemblies within the Body of Christ that have continuing to embrace its perverted material. Some assemblies do so out of wilfull rebellion & offense to others. But yet some, sometimes even within those same assemblies do so out of complete ignorance. In other words: a total & complete unknowing of not only the history of the world & satanic foundation of the contemporary music industry; but possibly even: A complete unknowing of what the Scripture teaches for this dispensation of the grace of God.
The way I see it: Utilizing "secular" music(depending upon the nature of the content): for the purpose of entertainment in the context of the assembly is simply not a valid reason what the fellowship of the believers in Christ is for in the first place. The kind of music that by its very spiritual nature & vibe that's not in accordance with being in reflection of the glorious attributes of God: To be performed for the purpose of entertaining a mixed multitude: Is simply NOT how the church functions as the Body of Christ. Though I'm not the kind of individual who would say, you know, that ALL music in the secular context is directly "Inspired by the Devil." But you know what? That in accordance with Ephesians 5:19 & Colossians 3:16: What IS or at least what SHOULD be the purpose & nature of music in the Body of Christ? Because Ephesians 5:19 as well as Colossians 3:16 informs us & implies what music is to be used in worship & assembly is just as important whether or not there even is any music at all.
And if this man really does rest his case of saying that popular music of this nature is somehow okay for the worship of God: Then this is a baseless & uneducated setiment which ignores the history of not only, you know, of just mere "music-styles" such as rock music in general; but as well as the relationships of the Occult world's deliberite propagation behind the great majority of material catergorized from pop to metal(At LEAST in the secular context.) And is therefore, an uneducated setiment that honestly needs to be put to rest - or at least be challenged with reality in full light of the Scripture.
Unfortunately, there are some assemblies within the Body of Christ that have not only has long since gone with the flow; but even at times: openly embraced its methods, messages & meanings. Though the Apostle Paul stated: "To them that are without the law, as without law..."; But however, goes on in the same sentence, he states: "...(being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,)..." Because Paul then concludes at the end the that very chapter, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." If I can only expound on how that is so relevant to a lot of the things that has been happening in the assemblies of the church. Ever since they have openly embraced the messages, idioms and expressions of the secular pop music industry, many within these assemblies have done as much as they can with defying taboo within their services. For one example: In this massive evangelical megachurch, for their evangelistic youth service, they had orchastrated having a 17-yr old young woman getting & laying down on her back-side physically on top of seven other young men all at once on the stage floor as part of a dance performance to the pop song "Funhouse" by P!nk.
In addition: There's a real sharp difference between a fellowship of Believers who may merely process genioune worship a little differently in accordance after the Scripture: Than those assemblies who have completely embraced the methods & messages of a multi-billion dollar industry that has lavishly prospered off selling satanic sexuality & the Occult to the masses. And therefore in which the latter has already been through the proccess of being divorced from the Scripture & the genioune heart of worship. Though it could be argued by some well-meaning believers whether or not it IS worship. But the question could be asked at least in some cases: Of whom or what exactly are they really worshiping? Oh how the Advesary must love the irony.
Speaking of the Israelites in the wilderness as a warning/example, the apostle Paul states: "Moreover, brethren, I would not have ye be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;... But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were over thrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink & rose up to play." Obviously, Paul was speaking of the passage when Moses & Joshua came down from mountain; & heard what it sounded as the "...noise of war."
As the apostle Paul then stated: "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."
The post-credits in one of my presentations state the following:
The walk in newness of life in accordance after the Gospel of the grace of God: That fitly joins together & exemplifies the heart of worship within the Body of Christ: Given by its Husbandry, Jesus Christ: That was once lost amongst the confusion, riot, lasciviousness & wantonness: Can now through the imputed righteousness of Christ & through the indwelling Holy Spirit of God: Be found, reconciled & restored into peace, order, favor & fellowship in midst of the brethren: To ultimately be a witness & a testimony to allow the fulfilling of the great commission.
Shield of Faith & Biblical Reasoning & Discernment- Hello.
Have you ever thought about starting your own website, and calling it Shield of Faith, & Biblical Reasoning, & Discernment?
@@alyas8357 Hello Alya, Josiah of Shield of Faith channel here. Sorry for the late response. I didn't see your comment until now for some reason. But anyway, I may have in the past. I know used have an account on a website where people can write there own articles. But that was way back in 2011. But nevertheless, I will probably consider doing something along the lines of to that in the future though.
evangelistic events are great! They are different from "the gathering of the saints", a corporate worship and prayer service, which is also great. They're just different... not the same thing. A church family should be doing both... GATHERING (marked by worship, prayer, and the Word, equipping the saints to GO make disciples) and GOING (evangelism, outreach, presenting the gospel to the lost, etc). They're both beautiful. Some people like to check both boxes in one Sunday morning gathering. That's where the confusion comes in... is this a worship service? Is this a time for worship, prayer, and the Word? For encouraging, equipping and sending the saints? Or is it an evangelistic outreach event with the sole goal of introducing lost people to Jesus?
All the criticism on the pastor sounds so harsh and narrow minded. I’m a Catholic, but I found this on CZcams and started seeing more and more and I’m liking this.
CAN WE ALL MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS AND JUST FOCUS ON WHAT GOD WANTS FROM EACH OF US, LOVE THIS PASTOR'S HEART
God wouldn’t want this…
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
This man is not converted but thats why his church is full. Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers/the world.
Indeed we must be open for all but we must not water down the Word to accomodate anyone.
This is not love, this is cowardice.
The Pastor is correct, this world and its poetic artists raise good questions. Take Bob Dylan, his song Blowin' in the wind....
How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
Yes, ’n’ how many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes, ’n’ how many times must the cannonballs fly
Before they’re forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
How many years can a mountain exist
Before it’s washed to the sea?
Yes, ’n’ how many years can some people exist
Before they’re allowed to be free?
Yes, ’n’ how many times can a man turn his head
Pretending he just doesn’t see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, ’n’ how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, ’n’ how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
----------------------------------------------------------------
How many years will His "Church" remain blind
Before she slips out of sight?
Yes, 'n' how many dreams will she leave to let die
Before she will fall from His light?
Yes, 'n' how many lives does she seek to condemn
Before she will do what is right?
The answer my friend, is stirring with in Him
The answer is stirring with in Him
There is a difference between looking at a line from a Bob Dylan song that poses a legitiamate question, and idolising the man or the song, and certaintly a difference from playing and listening to that song.
You can alm you want but a suppose to be "Christians" singing secular music, and not just secular, but satanic. I'll pray for y'all, but test yourself. Make songs for Jesus and not for Beelzebub.
Division makes us isolate. Isolation, above all else, is the leading cause of human sickness.
Huh?
Because is not a Christian church. Hopefully you will find Jesus. Amen.
I mean it's your life and you can do what you want. For those who hath an ear, let him hear. I'm not judging not castigating you. I believe you have a point however, I don't believe this is the right way to go about the Great Commission. It's not about having Jesus in every song. It's about singing songs that uplift people. Take for instance, Lecrae's Welcome to America. Didn't have Jesus in it yet he sang about issues that Jesus was concerned about, people being taken advantage of, people being maltreated, people taking the little things for granted. There's a way to go about it. We do not conform, no we transform. In other words, we make it better.
Why is everybody complaining about a Church making cover songs? Just shut up already, god. Let them do their own thing!
playing Eminem at Church brings people to God? Hmm
..ok 👌