Coin Dealers & Collectors Often Struggle With These Coins
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2024
- Coin Dealers & Collectors Often Struggle With These Coins. Some coins are labeled cleaned when they don't look clean, some coins look cleaned and are not labeled as cleaned. PCGS, NGC and ANACS do this on a regular basis and are not consistent with their labels or grading in general.
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Coin Dealers & Collectors Often Struggle With These Coins. Some coins are labeled cleaned when they don't look clean, some coins look cleaned and are not labeled as cleaned. PCGS, NGC and ANACS do this on a regular basis and are not consistent with their labels or grading in general.
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I would say the only good thing about a cleaned coin is you can get a deal on it if it is a key date but still they are hard to sell or buy beyond spot and the fancy holder if they are common dates.
This is very valuable information,
And yes I agree with you about these companies not being consistent!
I generally disagree with many of the grades given to a lot of coins I've seen and owned.
Weather it's the grades given,
Over grading - Under grading
Cleaned or not cleaned regardless of the overall appearance,
Damage assigned to something that isn't there,ECT..
Which will always bring to question!
Why even send something in to get graded when you're just going to take a chance and pay X amount of dollars to do so??
I see as a collector for over 4 decades I should have a pretty good idea of what is a certain grade a particular coin might be.
And many times see this over and over again when grading companies give a coin a grade it shouldn't have..
As a collector I see only one benefit of getting a coin graded and that's to keep it preserved!
Nothing else..
So far as buyers, dealers and collectors are concerned about what holder a particular coin is housed in a pay a certain amount just because it's a pcgs slab, well I guess they will be buying the slab as well.
Me on the other hand,,I would just assume buy a piece RAW..
But unless you have years of experience in the ability to determine authentication,
well there again, another advantage of getting your coin graded but take the risk of said above...
I know exactly what guy on eBay your talking about and that dude should not be able do what he's doing I bought a 1890 cc from him as problem free and it was in the pictures but when I got the coin it was rough and I way overpaid that's when I contacted him and noticed all of his pictures are doctored I had a hell of a time getting money back and it ended up costing me in the end, total scumbag!
With the amount of money we pay the graders, they need to do better. My last PCGS submission was a travesty of grossly undergraded coins (unless their photograde page is now totally obsolete thanks to CACG), and a 1913 Buffalo Nickel they called "UNC Detail - Cleaned" that I have examined and re-examined... I can't see *any* indication at all that nickel has been cleaned! Out of 8 submitted, I'm probably cracking out 4. 🤬Does anyone else feel like PCGS is more focussed on quantity than quality these days?
Truth be told seems PCGS has been slipping over the past five years in quality control. As such it kinda seems as if old knowledgeable graders have retired and new Is unknowledgeable graders have taken they're places. I tend to agree with you here. Let's just say for me I'm personally refraining from sending any coins to PCGS and going straight to CAC for my coin grading needs. CAC is much cheaper , way less turnaround time , CAC is also way more harsh on grades of coins. Where PCGS at current date would grade a say 1891-CC at MS62PL Morgan dollar CAC would grade at AU58PL. CAC is in my opinion the best bang for your buck in both value and quality of graded coin.
I like the "BMW" designation "Been Messed With"...Nice catch all
If priced right, there is nothing wrong with cleaned Morgans. But if cleaned and priced as UNcleaned, we have a problem. Morgan stacking is not the same as Morgan numismatic collecting, after all.
I imagine someone send off that 01-O to get a Poor 1 grade for a lowballer collection. Probably the "smartest" submission of the bunch.
Not considering cost of submission and membership
Those are still some nice looking coins. I'm sure somebody will still want them and you can show customers what cleaned coins look like. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Daniel. I agree with what you said here and some I don't know why some were sent in. I do see allot of polished coins at auctions and it amazes me that some think they a PL or DMPL. I definitely stay away from those. For value, you cant pay top dollar on those cleaned or damaged coins even though a family might have sentimental value.
Thank you for the Saturday morning Morgan share. Cleaned, tooled, brilliant, details etc etc, they're all still beloved and beautiful to me. Not all Morgan's are created equally, but they're all loved as if they were. Thanks Daniel 👍🏻🙏🕉️peace
Thanks. Many/most were obvious. Others I would be happy to be the owner of. Yep, hard to reconcile some of those 'cleaned' designations when you've seen so many similar that are not considered to have been cleaned. Several that any one of us might have sent in hoping for/expecting to straight grade!
Oh, now you have to make a video specifically on tooling. Fairly common on ancient coins along with fake desert patina. I could not find a video when searching on this topic. Thanks.
Interesting coins but id have a hard time verifying any of them. I'd have to take for granted what the label says. Great information Sir Daniel!
I agree with most of what you showed. Some of the common dates not worth sending in. I would pay more for a rim ding or a scratch if it’s not to distracting over a dull cleaned coin. Graffiti coins sometimes are interesting. If you choose to sell it may take time. Sometimes get it graded to make sure it’s real like a 1893 s Morgan.
Thank you for the education I get from viewing ur shows❤❤❤😊😊😊
Thanks for sharing these type of videos. Great help in what to look out for. Guess there is all different types of cleaning methods that will show or affect your grading one way or another, so just best not to mess with it.
There are some coins that are more difficult to spot but all those coins are self explanatory no hard in leased bit to see it’s the wheel mark something like that or counting machine damage that I think if it was done by the mint it should be gradable
The key to understanding is learning from someone that's reputable and experienced to know what to look for. Thank you Daniel for being so informative. I am getting much better with learning what might be cleaned with Lincoln cents wheats. The newer cents seem to turn colors when cleaned.
Definitely, they automatically turn a rainbow looking color
The new garage turns s awful pinkish color
If the grading companies can't assign a grade, they should refrain from slabbing them. I would rather have a coin graded as cleaned versus one just having authentic. Define the details or leave un-slabbed.
To have a coin slabbed cleaned or not is actually up to the sender. PCGS, NGC and ANACS are providing a service to the customer. At time of submission the sender has the option to have coins that do not meet the cut put into slabs or in a body bag as we coin collector's call a soft plastic sleeve. Say the sender requests that if this or that coin doesn't grade at least lets say MS60 do not slab but if it grades MS60 or higher slab that coin. Unless the customer that submitted said coin requests not to slab a coin under certain grade PCGS , NGC and ANACS will always slab that coin. It's not up to the third party grading services to determine slab or not. It's literally left to the sender to make that call. PCGS , NGC and ANACS are providing a service to the customer. I hope this shines light on why this or that coin was slabbed and who makes the determination to slab or not. Best of luck and happy collecting.
I go to estate sales and buy Morgan silver dollars, peace dollars, mercury dimes that I collect. They’ve been in aged holders for many years. Send them PCGS and graded all my coins cleaned.
Have a great weekend, Daniel. Your videos are very enlightening and I always enjoy them.
Comments too I read them all. 👍👍
I really appreciate the time you put into these videos. I've been collecting for almost fifty years and still learn something new everyday. Thanks so much. I'm considering joining.
Thanks for sharing Daniel.
The one nice thing about cleaned coins is that you can a coin that the mint state graded coin could be out of range due to its price. The lower cost for a cleaned coin can allow for one to get a decent looking example at a better price. I don't like to buy impaired coins, but I do have a few where the clean graded example is more than I want to pay for the coin. The cleaned examples that aren't harshly cleaned or have scratches can look nearly as nice as a clean graded coin, you have to do your research and find what is best for you and your budget.
To me, if you want to collect graded coins, then buy them already graded. That is a much safer way than trying to figure out the "cleaned"/ "details" on your own. If Daniel struggles with this at times, the average person will see things incorrectly more often than not.
It’s one thing of a coin is obviously cleaned or damaged, but as far as I’m concerned if a coin looks like a problem-free MS or AU to a seasoned collector it should not be considered ‘details’. I actually got a very nice Morgan and a few Peace ones back with a ‘details’ grade. I guess we can just hope the appraiser is in a good mood lol.
I've always wondered about this, millions and millions of Morgans laid in bags in the Treasury vaults.I can't even imagine how many have bag marks on them, which in essence are scratches, albeit light scratches.But when Morgans have,I guess deeper scratches,they get details.Just a thought
Hi there!! Thank you so very much for posting. I found it very helpful and informative! No joke, I was just thinking about the topic a few days ago. I attended my first coin show ever and really enjoyed it! I have been collecting on and off over the past 12 years. Last year, I jumped back in and have been collecting coins, paper currency, and now stamps full steam ahead! I have always heard of coins being "cleaned" and have certainly seen in a few graded slabs ones that were graded cleaned/details. I consider myself quite the novice still and can not differentiate between a cleaned coin either slabbed or in the raw. I have heard that silver metal, regardless of the purity and form, will always tarnish/oxidize given enough time. Is that a true statement? Do slabs actually "arrest" further/future tarnishing, or do they only protect the coin from physical contact that could scratch, nick, or ding them? I ask because I've seen and heard of slabbed Silver Eagles that began to reveal "milk spotting" within 5-10 years after being submitted, authenticated, graded, and encapsulated. When the grading companies state the slabs are "sonically sealed," I take that to mean vacuum sealed/inert atmosphere within the slab. Once again, is this true? Thanks so much. Keep uploading/posting gr8 and quality content!
Tough decisions, for sure. When it comes to buying slabs, I force myself to buy the coin and not the holder. And for raw coins (especially silver dollars), reputable dealers only.
I agree that some of these don't show any signs of cleaning. They would look good in my collection, if I didn't have them already. I'm down to needing just a few Morgans to complete the basic date and mintmark collection (no VAMs). There are three which I don't have any hope of getting, unless I come into some serious money. It's the usual three rare ones, the 1889-CC, 1893-S and 1895-P.
The 1895 P is a proof only so you don't have to get that one.
@@CoinHELPu True, but most albums have a space for the 1895-P. There's a dealer in Newport, Oregon, who has had 2 low grade 1895-Ps. One was PR-04 and the other was PR-06. Even in those low grades I wouldn't be able to afford them.
I dip a coin once a couple I used mother’s aluminum rim polish and most I don't touch
Leave it to your experience and discretion
Love watching these I’m learning so much in my journey
That makes 2 of us...lol
To answer your question why would someone send common dates or obviously cleaned coins to PCGS , NGC or ANACS the answer to me is obvious. The answer is ( bulk submissions ). Bulk submissions of 100 or more coins cost less to have graded in the bulk submission category. Say you've got a few top 100 VAM , hot 50 VAM or key dates that you'd like to have graded and PCGS has a bulk submission deal because they do as well as NGC and ANACS the sender opted to send in a bulk submission and get a cheaper deal with all at once. Yes even common dates just to get that bulk submission. As I'm sure you've seen in your own shop some people would rather buy a common date slabbed in a PCGS , NGC or ANACS slab than raw. How do PCGS , NGC or ANACS comes to the conclusion this coin that's could go either way they error on the side of caution most of the time. It's much better to error on the side of caution than not. As you can see not doing so has gotten dealers and collectors alike confused on what to determine what is going to grade cleaned and what's going to straight grade. Error on the side of caution is always going to be how I personally value any coin. Good educational video Daniel. Thanks for sharing.
Bulk submission you don't have them encapsulated unless they the lowest grade the submitter selected. I do know that most of these where a wing and a prayer when submitted. lol
The only one I see that should carry the grade is the cc if it's an '89 what can you expect from a vg or g grade. A coin like that will not be good in any case, it had a scratch, it's rare, the dent is bad you have to price it in, most people know they aren't going to get the best deal, the customer should know a g coin won't be the best. I got a deal on a 1880CC MS60, the face took a beating at the mint but had full luster, the back looked MS67 . Better date, dealer took a beating, I bought a bad coin for cheap and it sits with other coins, no one twisted my arm to buy it.
How did that really worn 1901 get worn down so bad? Could it be sliding across tables and bars or was it under a wash machine
Personal sentimental value has no bearing on the coin's numismatic value or otherwise, that simple. It's all about condition and rarity.
Not always, there's a lot of coins like Binion Hoard coins that are worth more because of the history and most of those coins are common dates and mints,
If you are going to pay a premium for a slab coin, it needs to be straight graded, not detailed. Best not to grade coins unless it's a valued coin. A cleaned slab coin is a pass.
Have seen some nicely toned coins with the Cleaned-Details grade, I always wonder how the coin was cleaned and yet the toning remains.
It toned after it was cleaned.
Great information! Appreciate the videos.
Good insight...thanks for posting
How much does a coin being graded "Cleaned" decrease it's value. Would it be better to not have a coin graded if you suspected it was cleaned?
Up to a 50% decrease.
There's too many Morgan Dealer types in the hobby that sell altered coins to unsuspecting collectors who in turn submit those problem coins for slabbing.
thanks for the video.
Love these informational videos❤
I've got a anacs morgan that is labeled whizzed and a ngc peace dollar is labeled obverse wheel marks,got them as examples to use and at a good price,keep up the great work and God Bless.
Those graders , having a good day get a good grade ,having a bad day get a Details grade 😕
Good video Daniel
Do you have any portsmouth Excelsior Shoe Co coins?
I have one in my personal collection.
Thx Daniel ! Its an interesting topic, lots of room for diacussion. Cleaned coins, imo, are a really touchy issue. It's a shame some really nice coins have been devalued because someone (who did or didn't know) decided to try and "improve" it's value for personal reasons or to scam. I very rarely use EZest, it takes away the luster, if there was any, on older coins. Any coins I deem necessary to "improve", I use tips and acetone or MS 70. MS 70 has proven to improve luster on MS, proof, and UNC coins I've used it on. I tried the acetone and MS 70 on a few older coins and they did not improve. One was definitely a polished coin and and it toned down the "shine" but you could still tell it was polished. And I will buy a cleaned or details coin occasionally if it's one I particularly like or want, knowing that if I was to ever try to sell it I wouldn't get my money back.
I always check your coins when you’re putting them in wrappers as I was doing quarters nickels and dimes into wrappers I found a 53 silver dime. Always good to go to your change as you’re putting them in wrappers.
Good Morning Daniel! Nice to have you over for coffee!☕ Coin cleaning is such aan irritation to me!😠
I don't collect Morgans and most older coins because so many are cleaned, I just don't need the headache....
Plus, if it's just a common date I don't know why more people don't select the "do not holder genuine" opinion... I'd rather have coin come back in a body bag than be stuck with it in a slab!
Great video as always. Have you thought about getting a digital microscope, like RFT, for videos like this. It would help when you point out the details, scratches etc. Also cut down on the glare. Thanks for the education as always.
I have all of that, but there’s always someone who still finds some fault in how I do anything. So I do it how I want. Like it or not. A microscope doesn’t cut down on glare anyway. I’ve tried that, the coins are inside plastic. Maybe you can do a video to show me how you do it?
@@CoinHELPu If my comment came off as an insult I apologize.
@@arkynative667 I didn't take it as an insult but I do all the video, editing, equipment, IT, all of it 100%, no help. I can't do any better than I do and I can and will make some mistakes. However, a scope isn't going to help with coins behind plastic. It's actually worse. I've tried everything. Thanks
@@CoinHELPu I've watched your videos for years and will continue. I very much appreciate the education I've gotten from them.
@@arkynative667 Thank you!!
As I have said before, the grading houses are the bosses and making big bucks, just like the hardware dealers during the Gold and Silver rushes.
This is why I stick to modern silver coins strictly for their silver content. You do have to be careful of the premium on them especially the Silver Eagles but you can get Junk Silver at a reasonable price usually. To heck with the older coins that are condition sensitive on grading and price.
So, my question is, can you ask them, the grading companies to restore. They have that service, right? Asking for a friend.
You can’t restore a cleaned coin. Restoration is for removing contaminants and some toning only.
@@CoinHELPu i see. thank you
There is a difference between mechanical cleaning and chemical cleaning.
Not if it results in too much chemical wear, the end result ends up being the same once the chemical cleaning can be seen with the naked eye.
1923 Peace on video looked cleaned along "IN"
Well generally if I have a coin that says something like "cleaned" or whatever and it doesn't appear to have anything wrong with it after close examination I will crack it out of that holder and either leave it RAW or resubmit...
For example,
Bought a 1919P walking liberty half that was by ANACS..
Said said "scratches"
EF on eBay
Seller didn't see anything wrong with it, neither did I..
Took the coin out.
A 1899 Barber half I sent in to Ngc..
Came back cleaned,
Had lots of nice toning..
No cleaning marks.
Took that coin out,
Left it RAW!
Will sell RAW
Daniel i keed you to come to my house and buy my coins
You can send an email list or ship them.
Most coin dealers just offer scrap silver and se if your enough of a sucker to accept it
Unless it's better dates and mints I don't blame them, problem coins are a problem to get rid of. You wouldn't pay retail or pay normal price for problem coins yourself. I wish some of you, who make these comments, would open your own brick and mortar shop and try to be successful. You'd stop making some of these comments. I guarantee it or you would just go out of business.
That 1925 Peace dollar was nice. If anything it might have been dipped, but done with care. That's too bad. If it were a better date, I'd try again 🫤