155 K 98 - 155 GH 52 APU | Will the Finnish artillery rise again?
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- We are investigating the 155 K 98 (155 GH 52 APU), the history of the Finnish artillery development adventure, and its future. #artillery #maavoimat #puolustusvoimat
You can find more detailed videos about the history of the Finnish artillery at Satunnaista sotilashistoriaa channel
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Why did Finland build up a high-tech artillery industry?
Why have not the Finnish gun-howitzers been preferred in the international market? Is this assumption correct?
Why did Finland acquire a relatively small number of its own gun-howitzers
Is there a new chance for the 155 K 98?
00:00 Introduction
01:34 Historical background (history of Finnish artillery industry)
05:01 Programme history
06:16 Design
09:03 Users
09:08 Specifications
10:00 Mobile variants (155GH52-SP-T55 / 155 K 98 Sisu E13TP)
10:38 Analysis
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Please do a video on the American Essex class aircraft carrier and it's history 🙏
This is 100% personal speculation but the resumption of production might simply mean that FDF is getting ready to replace the most numerous old soviet artillery pieces, a great deal of which have probably been donated to Ukraine.
A good speculation, we missed
Yes some artillery will be replaced due wear and tear and to unify the calibers to use NATO standard calibers only. It simplifies the logistics.
@@WeaponDetectiveThere is evidence of Finnish artillery pieces in Ukraine, although the policy of the Finnish government has been almost from the beginning that the contents are not disclosed. I hope we don't give too much away while orders of new weapons are not increasing greatly.
@@WeaponDetective also speculated that the sun rises in the morning
@@Sir_Godz Yes, and we really miss it. A bad detective work. Shame on us :))))
After the cold war ended, Finland bought huge amounts of equipment from East Germany for ridiculously low prices - found a mention from one interview saying that 500 guns were bought in total.
I heard that when they bought SPGs they just found Dragunovs inside them lol
alot of them we re-sold to estonia, who later supplied them to ukraine.
Those deals, together with bad 90's recession, probably were the main reason for low numbers of 155K98 orders. Also in the begin of 2000's there was a SPG evaluation project which didn't result any orders, but surely cut intrest in towed artillery.
@samulilahnamaki3127 Also, as you probably know, 98s are called "susikasi" (Finnish wordplay between 9=ysi and wolf=susi (8=kasi), which is kinda the same as something being dog or bad)because the APU is kinda bad, plus there might have been some other issues
@@TheLazyFinn No, I wasn't in the artillery, but that absolutely sounds like a name some piece of equipment would get in the army 🙂
Fun fact: APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) also means another thing. Apu translates to "help". Which is fitting as the power unit helps to move the gun for short distances.
Apustaja
@@JuisSekasi apuva
That's also fun regarding aviation. Think about the fashionable scenario with a non pilot "yes, it actually says apu in there".
Having towed the 155 K98, I can say it is a beast. It's so advanced compared to our older pieces that I'd say it's almost boring to operate😅 Almost everything is automated or made significantly easier😂
I was gun crew in 155 k 83 in army, really pain in the ass to operate especially in winter.
@@terot8341Me too, served 91-92 in Niinisalo. 155K83 Very slow to get fireing readiness. I would think dangerously slow in Ukraine like invasion. Fire range is good with special ammo but I assume stock ammo is mostly standard.
That is my cannon. I still remember pullin the lever first time.
Finnish artillery manfuactures made some very ahead of its time artillery systems, most of Israeli artillery until some time were based on Finnish artillery for example
indeed, the Soltam 120mm mortars are based on Tampella's designs, including the one USA adopted as M120.
And actually some of the M-68 pieces used by Israel were manufactured in Finland, around 30-40 of them. Also some of the pieces exported under the name Soltam M-68 were actually Finnish Tampella made pieces, at least those exported to Singapore.
This very beneficial cooperation came to a halt when the Finnish socialist party SKDL and especially its youth wing and party magazine started spreading lies about Tampella exporting guns to South Vietnam etc., and Tampella, being a large industrial conglomerate at the time, wanted to avoid too bad publicity as well as police investigations, sold away the 50% share in Soltam in 1974.
Galil rifle too was heavily influenced by rk-62 of the Finnish army.
@@TastyEmpire51 more like derived from, to the extent where the first production Galils literally had Finnish-made receivers
@@hullutsuhnaHas Finland made any decent coin from this at least?
Rise again? Really?! They have best artillery in Europe
Very informative video. I did not know even the Turkish Panter is a kind of based on Finnish guns.
It was also based on the Singaporean FH-88
There is a reason why in Finnish verb "Ryssiä" (Muscovy ) , roughly meaning "to totally fail something".
tampella also made the 120mm mortar that is widely used around the world
120 Krh/40, Granatkastare m/41D, Soltam M-65, Soltam K-6, M120, plus improved designs Tampella made for domestic use, I hope Tampella paid the designers well for their work, seeing as it's quite possible that original 1940s weapons are STILL in active service (Germany bought some at some point & Sweden unloaded m/41Ds onto Estonia and Latvia who still use them), some 80 years after they were made.
@@hullutsuhna I had mortar training in Estonia last year, our battle firing test was on a swedish made 1946 production 120mm mortar. Worked flawlessly. Ammunition was from 2019 though.
Tampella factory was in my home city, it was common to see guns on factory yard.
As I understood it, mounting 155 K 98 on Sisu E13TP was the original plan to get SPG's as the 122 PSH 72 (2S1 Gvozdika) are old and small caliber. But then K9's had some upgrade or just became more available and those became the plan. However, FDF have ordered all of the options on K9's, total of 96, and since SK is upgrading all of it's own and many countries have ordered them, the availibility is a problem again. To combat that mounting 155 K 98 on Sisu E13TP is back on the table again... I'm speculating here, but I think it is because warfare has changed to 'see first, shoot first' and that put's more pressure to artillery to be 'shoot and schoot' and overall more mobile.
I was trained with 130 mm Soviet gun and we trained also with 122 mm war loot cannons and kept them in fighting condition.We had about 1 mil shells for 122 mm from war and we were allowed to shoot as much as we wanted on live ammo exercises.122 had very loud high pitch bark and it wasn t really nice.No amount of ear protection really helped.
As always, a good video ❤
I personally prefer the old models over this gun. Specifically the K 83-97 which I trained with. It doesn't have any hydraulics other than the recoil system. It requires less crew, less training and has a faster fire rate(depending on the crew). From my experience, the less complicated something is, the better. Sure it's a sweat job to move that nearly 10k kilogram gun around with nothing but human muscle but I would take that over this gun any day.
Good video
Great old FDF footage!
Top speed 15 kmh with the APU. Good for moving a few hundred meters at a time.
Easier to change firing positions that way.
@@herptek Get into and and out of firing position after or before transit. Adjust things when trucks leave in a hurry. Arrange things while not in transit.
@@ffffffff-vv7yp This is usefull for heavy towed artillery pieces. Mounting an artillery weapon directly on the truck simplifies the process futher and is quite common a solution in many militaries.
One thing not mentioned as to why the numbers were low is that in the 90s the DEF budget decreased and this trend continued in the 2000s. This meant prioritization when it came to modernizing the FDF and projects like F-18 Hornet took the lead and as the video DOES mention we had enough artillery at the time. I do believe we would have more K98s along with other equipment if the budget had stayed near the 2% it was at the start of the Hornet procurement. This being said the FDF artillery while most likely in the top 3 largest in Europe is starting to show its age and will require new barrels, will the Patria prduced K98 be the solution? Unlikely. I suspect it will be too expensive to replace significant portions of existing fleet.
Supposedly the long range problems with K98 were countered by buying surplus M270s from other European operators.
It was a wonderful video about 155 K98 Hawtizer guns designed and mainly produced by Finland 🇫🇮 .video clearly explained all characteristics of that Finland designed Hawtizer artillery and its historical backgrounds..used by Finland, Israel, Egypt, and Pakistan...later entered NATO standards...thank you an excellent ( weapon detective 🕵️♂️) channel for sharing
I used that in the army
Again? What that means? We have the biggest field artillery in europe 2024.
Western Europe :)
Biggest field artillery in EU*.
Greece is 2nd, with 1300 artillery compared to Finlands around 1500 field artillery pieces, how ever its. How ever Finnish artillery has major flaw in that its not very mobile, Finland has aroun 200 SPG's, where as greece has over 3 times that amount of self proplelled artillery.
Russia is the country with the largest field artillery in Europe with numbers anywere from 5000 to 7000 artillery, and who knows how many they have lost and built during war in ukraine.
@@KoteDarasuum I somewhat agree, but one of the tactical reason why Finland has so many towed artillery pieces is also due to their terrain conditions - Finland is 75% covered in forests and it is much easier to hide a towed artillery - with a smaller silhouette than an SPG - in a thick forest, than driving and hiding a SPG in a highly forested area. Road networks between the Finnish-Russian border regions are not that good for attacking in either direction, as there is very limited amount of routes to execute highly mobile attacks to or from Finland with highly mechanized troops and this has been taken into consideration in armament procuring and in planning of the Finland's defense.
Towed artillery is also much cheaper and faster to build and replace, than SPG's, which makes them relevant even in todays war zones - despite SPG's having generally more strengths than weaknesses in todays highly mobile battle strategies.
Luckily, Finland is a highly forested lake and swamp ridden fortress, where more affordable solutions work in some cases just as well if not even better (depending on terrain conditions), than more expensive solutions.
Although SPG's can also be hidden in forests, their strategic and tactical advantages are mostly with their mobility, so they are more optimal for fast shoot and scoot tactics, especially on easily traversable terrain.
@@The_Real_Thamaell 2S1 SPGs are cheap though, as cheap as you can get pretty much
Tactical analysis and usage comparisons were missing, though. But thanks :)
Os seus vídeos são excelentes. Por que não fazem vídeos sobre armas antigas, por exemplo os submarinos da Primeira Grande Guerra?
Again? It has been one of the biggest in the world, for a long time.
BTW! Please make a video about Finnish Coastal Artillery.. That is pretty much one of a kind when looking whole picture. Ok it is a branch that is going to be old some day, but what i think is that Ukraine war has shown, that passive wpns systems have still their place. With good coastal artillery, for example, Snake island + odessa would had been very difficult to make a landing from the sea, at least in the way Russian Navy helped it to happen. (Rus navy btw was pretty much only one in the start of the war that did their job as intented. Now pfff.. )
Meillä on Euroopan suurin kenttätykistö!. Turkillakin on aika iso mutta onneksi suomi oppi vuoden 1944 taisteluista💪🫡🇫🇮.. ps. Ohjelma kertoo tykistä ja Suomen tykistöstä MUTTA miksi taustalla soi JÄÄKÄRI marssi (näillä ei ole tekemistä toistensa kanssa jos nyt ei mennä 1917 luvulle asti) tykärit on tykäreit mut Jääkärit kuninkaita!.😁
Jääkäritykistörykmentti käyttää jääkärimarssia vielä.
169 guns is not that small procurement for a european country.
By Finnish standards at the time it was.
@@samilouFinland should acquire about 300 more itself to cover the gap left from the old Soviet designed weapons that have been or will be left out of service. Finland needs to be the best armed ground force in Europe in the future as well because the security situation has taken a turn for the worse and we are now the frontline. A large reserve army needs to be armed well in order to be worth it.
We were always the frontline next time we atleast have some reinforcements.@@herptek
@@grimmreaper3241 Likely so as an allied country, but exactly how much depends on some factors, unfortunately including politics. We can't be naive.
We must handle our own territory by our own strength if it comes to that.
@@herptek Last time we had 190K germans. This time german army doesn't even have that many combat troops.
is not using egyptian footage related to the bribery case or what?
lol
@yarmud Nice sir. A bit desperate cope, but still nice plugging.
Finland is turning more towards domestic produce because that is efficient in war and creates jobs during peacetime too.
The pioneer was the Bofors FH77 👍🏻
Paavo: Antasvat mulle tykin?
Martti: Mitä sä sillä meinasit tehdä?
Paavo: Voisin vähän roirella!
Towed is too slow, ukraine has that problem. Even some modern wheeled guns are. So depends if this is smart to do
Production stopped in 2005 if I remember correctly. Patria wants to manufacture an SPH based off of it that would be akin to the CAESAR used by France.
Depends. True mobile artillery like K9 is one thing, the other extreme like 777(the old fashioned made lightweight for airlifting etc) is another. Self moving towed is somewhere in between. If the potential theatre of war is within Finnish terrain trying to prevent a Soviet 2.0 invasion, somewhere in between may be just the right solution for tube artillery. Maybe.
There is need for some traditional artillery and even mortars. If it gets WW2 2.0 as it has gotten in Ukraine, it can not be just "M270" or "call in an airstrike" or "all the drones you can supply please". There's got to be artillery.
@@ffffffff-vv7yp big problem Ukraine has had in the war is their relative lack of artillery. By comparison pre war Ukraine had only 350 field artillery pieces compared to Finlands 1500.
"Field gun." ❌
"Field canon." ✔️
From a certain of my humble vantage, the current geo-political scenario despite a few ongoing high-alchemic narratives, currently seems to be realigning its global coordinates and narratives to promote the old-school traditionalism of geo-strategically achieved military deterrence over magnified & objectified military-technology aggression; and in place of narcissistic war-technology prowess is instead projecting military-technology as a leeway to field high impact technologies to synthesize and issue industrial charters for the years ahead. Bring converge if we may, into a theory here based on the revivalism of traditionalist military technology, it seems to be part of a prudent sensibility, instrumenting traditionalism as a tool to control any abject superimposing of advancements in heavy weaponry over advancements in superlative technology, placing subtle checks on the destructiveness aspect of advanced weapon caches, for measure or projection notwithstanding. From this perspective, I humbly believe that the conventional heavy field artillery of the yester and the present still holds a virtue or many over long-range, super-advanced ordinance-delivery-ballistic-vehicles, and thus heavy artillery shall remain in active service of traditionalist armies all around the world for the foreseeable future in scale-specifying formats as the contexts and deployment tactics derive. The 130mm to 155mm genre of towed field artillery platforms, I reckon though would face strict competition from self propelled artillery systems, regardless of the deployment-terrain-limitations of the later, yet shall remain an ergonomic solution for forward-rapid-response and small scale forward-deterrence in strategic-terrain-deployments featuring tactical units with limited close ground support from air and operating without conventional heavy-armour at their disposal to avoid escalation of scale and war tactics. And to mention, the field artillery as a veritable combat-usage-method field-equipment strongly and definitively retains its place in the standard training and preparedness manuals of the conventional army doctrines, perhaps one of the key aspects behind this weapons system's unperturbed military service longevity, and thus in good faith I humbly acknowledge its significance to peace keeping. Salute'
ChatGPT says hi
@@ibuprofen_ If that's the kind of text ChatGPT is vomiting out, I guess it must still be running in the 0.0x version numbers.
Stoneage compared to SPGs like the Archer.
But cheap so you can have more of them
Lol yeah we also have SPG’s, the Korean K9 Thunders.
@@HoseTheBeast only around 48 of them with 48 more on the way. Quite small fleet compared to other european countries self propelled artillery fleets. Ofc we also have some old Czechoslovak MLRS, M270's and 2S1's, but even with all those units combined finland only has around 200 self propelled artillery
Pretty much everything is stoneage compared to Archer 😂 But now that 2nd hand K9's are sold out, I wouldn't be supprised if Finland buys Archers next. If they can scrape enough money. Western militaries also are getting a lot of feedback of different from Ukraine.
This shit took away my comment.
Fog4
FPV DRONE : i will maybe kiss that artillery 😂
Two words: numbers and mobility. Numbers refers to standards too, standard parts, standard ammo, cooperation in production.
Without numbers and mobility NATO will not succeed in modern defence. Thus I am not sure whether this gun is the solution. Maybe if the tires grow a bit and also the power unit. So that there is a bit better self-propelling. But all in all would be better have nowadays a truck firing from roads, and then scooting to next firing position. Especially in urban areas works the best. Of course in Eastern Finnish forrests or Lapland roads might be more rare and thus more risky.
Jäätin junasta F35 liian liki rajaa. Liikkuva tykistö kohdistettu tuli. Suomaiset kun herää niin vi..u tule kysymättä kylään 🇫🇮
Ok So Israel Version in Not the SAME! This why M71 was in use and also it better and sold to a lot of countries. We almost not Use it Now - we have ATMOS 2000 better do video about It - from 2001 it Was Sold to More when 10 countries and was Used in WaR
The original Israeli version, the Soltam M-68 was the same as Tampella 155KAN68, and the longer L/39 barrel Soltam M-71 was very close (only marginal manufacturing differences) to the FDF-trialled 155 K 74, as they both were based on the 155KAN68/M-68 with the same documentation. And in extension, the 155 K 83 is just slightly different from the 155 K 74, mainly due to some FDF technical requirements.
Obsolete
Way more than adequate on today’s battlefield.
This is fake news, Finland has no functional artillery to speak of. Anyway I hear Imatra is nice this time of year, come for a visit
In a strong field this must be the worst comment of 2024.
@@teknoaija1762 pienennä e-penikses ja lue sun tzuta
@@teknoaija1762 lue sun tzuta
Least obvious rage bait
its sad to see people so lost
The finns have always made high quality weapons.🤍💙
They are good, but so expensive that they get few orders. Arms market is also very corrupt, even when Finns tried to play that game their own courts convict them.
@@Doomer1984 Finnish companies should sell something to Germany then, since every German procurement results in a court case, let's REALLY create a mess by adding another Patria bribery scandal to the mix!
There are significant issues with barrel wear & long range accuracy of 155 K 98.
Perhaps a replacement barrel of different material & profile might address this.
@@GARDENER42 The barrel wear issue was most prominent in the older domestic loads which regularly reached over 40km+. The present day NATO versions dont reach over 32 km which also reduces barrel wear and erosion.
@@juslitor Ah, so a bit like using 'overly enthusiastic' loads in a 22-250 leading to rapid barrel wear & falling accuracy then.