Litter enforcement
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2023
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Assuming the person is silly enough to stop and talk to them, they have no power to force you to stay.
Rule no 1 never talk to strangers.
This guy (blackbelt) is a fool and very clever to be able to talk out of his rear end. Even a copper can't get your name unless arrested and an enforcement officer has no power to arrest you.
Rule number 1, don't frigging litter
@@oldmanonamission8055this guy is on the side of the police and justice system,which are all corrupt.
Just don't talk to anyone, charity folks anyone, just surprises me that I see folks talking and giving the fine everyday. Sad situation
It is NOT an offence to refuse to give your name and/or address. They have zero power and the second they touch you, you have the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself.
It is an offence to fail to provide details or to provide false details but as littering is a summary offence, they have no power to detain anyone
without name, how do you get punished ?
Really it's an offence not to give personal details to to a private company? You don't even have to give details to police
Enforcement agents tried this with me in hull ( didn’t think no sleep just finished 8hr train journey , threw my drink can in bin but not cig tab 🤦♂️) soon as they told me I apologised and picked up my tab out of the hundreds around me and put it in the bin . They demanded my details and that I pay a fine , when asked what for they said the litter you put in the bin lol , when I refused to give my name they threatened me with a £2,000 fine for not providing my details . Just ignored them and kept waking away .
Might be wrong here, but I also believe the act of littering is internally throwing rubbish on the floor and leaving it (as in walking away). Additionally I think they are supposed to give you the opportunity to pick it up.
All to say in your case, I don't think they have any grounds to say that you have littered. You've not met the legal definition of it. But next time, don't trow your cig on the floor. I do understand how it happened, after a long shift at work. But let's respect our environment
@@stephenjamespayne6131BBB made a video about this too. Their guidance is for them to ask you to pick it up, but they don't have to, they can legally go directly to fining you.
In any case those worthless excuses of dna deserve less respect then you would give a convict
Private company collecting. Don't have to answer any questions
Just walk away they can't follow you to your house. We have this situation in Solihull Town centre. I didn't litter purposely (I accidentally dropped a chewing gum after opening a fresh packet as I was on the phone I didn't notice I dropped it) they attempted to stop me by standing in front of me. Luckily I was a foot taller and 2x the size of them and just simply walked through them. Never give them your details or the time of day for that matter.
You're wrong here Dan, you don't have to provide details to a private company
And don’t get me started on these disposable vapes that litter the streets 😂 junkies will be litter bugs.
Well... If you pick up your litter and they're still demanding your details, there is no more crime and they can't ask for the details
I am moving to North Korea, simply because there are less Rules and regulations
My understanding is they should give you the opportunity of picking up what you have dropped but they never do, the reason they don’t is because they are normally on some sort of commission. The same with many private bailiffs, they’re self employed and these are the worst who constantly bend or just outright ignore the rules as it’s in their own financial interest. County Court bailiffs on the other hand tend to be great and very helpful and understanding.
I saw an advert for a Marston's as an enforcement officer £90000 PA commission only, disgusting.
If you have time to run into a property your signed into and aware there is an escape without information being lead to you being incriminated along the rought you have an opportunity to put the brakes on them. They can't trespass to get you.
Its the same with capita for TV licencing. If they don't know who you are, they can't generate a case.
The best option is don't drop litter and you wont get into trouble.
This is true but do remember they still come for you even if a piece of paper in your back pocket falls out onto the floor
@@neezduts69420 "deez nuts" love what you did there 👏
There is always a clause to catch yourself out. I guess when people get brighter you tend to concentrate on where your money shouldn't be going as apposed to money thats properly spent. Good shout cheers!
Don't drop litter. There's the problem solved.
doesnt mean its morally right though, its time the people fought back at our law system were becoming oppressed peasants. I dont condone littering though.
HOW is it an offence NOT to give these people your details?
Because there criminals
@@efc4693 it might help us be persuaded of your argument if you weren’t illiterate in your mother tongue.
2 pricks chased me for an hour and a half
Not lawful, Legal. You are entering a contract with a corporation.
I’d still leg it 😂
Do they have to ask you to pick it up before it becomes an offence?
Yes, as accidentally dropping it unknown to yourself. If you refuse then they go to next step. Once in the bin they can't touch you be polite and walk away
Yes
Many have been filmed in manchester still being fined after they put it in the bin.
I think you're wrong here sir. It's only an offence to give false information to the litter enforcement officers - not to refuse to give information as they are a private company. Admittedly my sphere of legal expertise revolves around corporate businesses, buy outs etc. but that's what my research indicates.
This is a short video, it's doesn't take into account people are harassed even when they pick up the litter and place it in a bin or their pocket/bag. I'm all for not littering, but against private firms being in a position to employ someone on a commission based pay system which encourages false/unfair fines and don't give the person the chance to rectify their mistake.
If I have had something to eat and there isn't a bin, I put it in my pocket, if I take something out of my pocket and the thing I eaten tge wrapper falls out, I pick it up.
Don’t think anyone cares about justice on this one, let’s move along!
So can anyone make a company up nd walk around demanding Details on any wrong doing ?
That's what's annoying we obay to the police force not any random Tom dick and Harry . ?
Thank you for putting the right information out there
Yes is law to provide identification to the enforcement,same happen in manchester and fined £150
they followed me when i walked away i was next to my car they didnt know it was mine luckily walked around the corner and went into a shop watched them walk past looking for me i left the shop and went back to my car and got away then lol
I've never had to deal with these McCops because I would find it beneath my dignity as an Englishman to drop my own shit on the floor in a public place and expect someone else to deal with it. Bring back the stocks.
In your view its fine to say what you said, but in the actual law clause you should let the person who litters a chance to pick up the litter. But instead they gain information and gets them a fine which they will be forced to pay. This is not right, what if the person who drops something on the floor is going through hard times and is required to pay like 250 quid.
An offence not to give them your details? They are NOT Police!
If you are asked for your details, refuse to give them and are later found to have been wrongly accused of dropping litter, did you commit an offence by refusing your details?
What about if you put litter that you apparently dropped into a bin when they point it out, then you refuse your details?
However you're going to play this, camera on as soon as you become aware they are speaking to you has to be the best policy
All this would be great if there were some actual Coppers on Foot Patrols. Make as many Law as you like but the fact remains there's just no Visibility to enforce much.
If you pick rubbish then you can’t be charged
Is it true that they have to give you a chance to pick it back up? That's one I keep hearing going around
Yep they should
Within their rules/policies they could give you an opportunity to pick it up; but within legislation they don’t have to. So it depends if they’re a jobsworth dickhead or not.
That’s assuming you even acknowledge their existence. They have no power to detain so can’t stop you from leaving. They do record video and audio so be careful what you apologise for.
Bottom line though, if you don’t litter you don’t have to deal with these clowns.
Yes it is but they won't. They are not the council as they claim. they are a third party private firm hired by the council and they work on commission. They only get paid for each fine they issue so that is exactly what they will do. Just tell them to fuck off and walk away they have absolutely no powers whatsoever. Don't listen to this fool in this video.
I think this guy is full of it. You can refuse to give a police officer details, so you don't have to give them to these guys
Are we creating so many untrained privatised police forces on the cheap that the professionals? will no longer be
required for being too expensive ?
And more council thugs arriving illegaly every day on boats . 😠🏴
@@johnbowkett80 ONLY 120,000 last year. NO CON TAX, NO RENT, NO UTILITIES, NO TV LICENCE ETC ETC.
ME? INCREASED TAXES, COSTS, FINES
Council Tax payers apparently think people who are directly employed are too costly. Where I live the council don’t have much to do with on or off street parking.
Surely the power to obtain details ought to be clarified here...they can't just obtain them rather they must purport to have witnessed an offence by the person whose details are sought.?
I'd make no admission to dropping litter but would pick it up, deposit it in a bin and leave. No offence committed, no need to wait(no power to detain) .
Not littering as law requires you to' leave' the item. A step or two away must surely be de minimis?
No offence therefore cannot be perverting...
Over to you Black Belt😊
So long as they aren't stupid and try and charge you for feeding the ducks 🤣
They key word in Clean Neighbourhoods and environment Act 2005 section 18 is "LEAVES IT"
So as long as you pick it up youre not breaking any laws.
And according to Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Part 1A - Effective enforcement Code of
practice for litter and refuse
September 2019 (updated February 2022)
Section 11l.7 subsection d states
" If a littering offence is accidental for example- if something falls from someone's pocket.
In order to maintain publics trust in the legitimacy of enforcement action against littering, enforcement action should only be taken where there is evidence of an intent to drop and leave litter. It is not in public interest to take enforcement action if there is not clear evidence that the individual intended cause liter.
Nonsense. Just walk away. These people have no powers. Simply walk away and ignore them completely. They can follow you as much as they want, just pretend they are not there.
These advisory people are doing the public a great service in protecting people from greedy council revenue-raisers.
If I see one of these enforcement goons trying to extort information from a member of the public, I will loudly advise them to walk away.
Relax, take a breath, another day tomorrow 😉
Its an offence not to prove the crime committed and then challenged by a enforcement officer, also if you have dropped something without knowing then you should be shown and then you should pick it up and make the situation right. And not pay a fine because you haven't left the litter
Bbb you always have the right to remain silent
What about your right to remain silent there scammers
You only have to laugh in their face and walk away. What are they going to do?
Interesting point of view, is it an offence to seek legal advice from another person person at any point during a stop with a legal body?
I feel like the person being stopped has every right to ask advice from a fellow bystander when being confronted by a private body acting loosely on behalf of the council.
You should be charged for false information
Doesn't the litter dropping law state that it's only an offense to LEAVE the litter? So if they are told and then correct the error by picking up the litter then its no longer an offense and they don't need to provide details. AT THAT POINT the agents are then harassing the member of public by continuing to ask for details
Is that right or wrong mr blackbelt?
Where is your EVIDENCE? Where is your PROOF? NO CONSENT. SILENCE !!!!!!
ARE THESE ENFORCERS IMPERSONATING POLICE OFFICERS?
The fact that you’ve thrown it on the ground in the first place shows your intent to leave it there. Being asked to pick it up is purely housekeeping by the warden. It doesn’t change the fact that you’ve littered.
@@EdOeuna that's not how the law is worded
@@truthtorpedo99 - it is. BBB did a video on it a few months ago. Dropping litter is against the law, albeit a local law. It is enforced by local employees or contractors of the council. Simply throwing something intentionally on the ground is a breach. Picking it up is being an adult.
This idea that you can refuse or walk away is utter rubbish.
@@EdOeuna no, it is an offense to drop litter AND LEAVE IT
If the person corrects the mistake (by going back and picking up the litter) it is no longer an offense. The law specifically states this
Apparently if you don't understsnd them ie cant speak english (which must be 20% of the population) or have learning difficulties they can't give you a fine.
No english ski !
Perhaps if the enforcers followed the legislation (give the elidged perpetrator the opportunity to pick up the litter) before attempting to issue a fine, there may be less of an issue...auditor's keep up the good work...
Regarding the separate offence of not providing details, a question arises: if you dispute the accusation, you DID leave litter? Is the obligation to provide name and address contingent upon having committed the offence? Or is it based on the enforcement officer's belief?
it's only 'the course of justice' in my view if the 'enforcement agents' comply with the legislation to the letter, i.e,
did the person throw down, drop or otherwise deposit any litter in any place to which (s1 EPA 1990) this section applies and leave it?
Dont litter its as simple as that
Some local authorities have codes if practice in place that say the authorised person must give the offender and opportunity to pick up the litter. Best to check your local area rules before refusing!
Charlie veich goes against these enforcement clowns though and I know you are familiar with him. Would you recommend he stops doing it. I enjoy both yours and Charlie's video tbh.
I saw one of those things following a Man with cigarette through whole Broadway.
Whose going to punish that behaviour
It's not the course of justice when the company is private and do not inform you that you have the right to pick up your trash. They have to be sworn in police and then again littering is not a disturbance of the King's peace. As for perverting the course of justice, that is done by these private firms as I have mentioned above. An environmental enforcement agent is not a police officer and you need not give them your details.
Absolute drivel. They are authorised officers of a litter authority ie a local authority within the meaning of Section 88 EPA and it is an offence to fail to give your details and liable to a £1000 fine.
(10)In this section-
[F10“authorised officer”, in relation to a litter authority, means-
(a)an employee of the authority who is authorised in writing by the authority for the purpose of giving notices under this section;
(b)any person who, in pursuance of arrangements made with the authority, has the function of giving such notices and is authorised in writing by the authority to perform that function; and
(c)any employee of such a person who is authorised in writing by the authority for the purpose of giving such notices;]
(8A)If an authorised officer of a litter authority proposes to give a person a notice under this section, the officer may require the person to give him his name and address.
(8B)A person commits an offence if-
(a)he fails to give his name and address when required to do so under subsection (8A) above, or
(b)he gives a false or inaccurate name or address in response to a requirement under that subsection.
@@SlowlyDecomposingSolicitor A local authority is not a law making authority and cannot give powers of arrest and cititaions to private firms without an act of Parliament. This council giving the right to a private firm to attend a notice to a suspected person for littering is just that, a notice not a fine which pre requires a warning. Wake up councils cannot make laws. No citizen is required to attend any personal information to any private company, with or without authority, without the presence of a police officer or constable. Councils cannot make laws and this should be made clear to the public and they cannot change or review laws pertaining to personal information unless through an act of Parliament. Comprehend... Any council could vote that from tomorrow everyone must wear red on a Wednesday and give you a notice for not abiding, but it is a notice not a fine and not legal by any la of the land.
@@stephan6372 You're absolutely right a LA cannot give powers of arrest to a private firm (though no one has claimed they could, nor have purported to do so so I'm not sure where you think you're going with that) nor "citations" (by which I assume you mean the power to impose a penalty charge given that we're not in the US) without an Act of Parliament.
A shame you didn't actually bother to read my previous post where I gave you the bit of the relevant Act of Parliament which explicitly empowers LA's to engage agents to do precisely that - so here it is again for your education:
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/43/section/88
Section 88 - Environmental Protection Act 1990
(10)In this section-
[F10“authorised officer”, in relation to a litter authority, means-
(a)an employee of the authority who is authorised in writing by the authority for the purpose of giving notices under this section;
(b)any person who, in pursuance of arrangements made with the authority, has the function of giving such notices and is authorised in writing by the authority to perform that function; and
(c)any employee of such a person who is authorised in writing by the authority for the purpose of giving such notices;]
You also didn't bother to read the requirement in, yes, the relevant Act of Parliament which requires someone to provide the information requested
Again Section 88 - Environmental Protection Act 1990
(8A)If an authorised officer of a litter authority proposes to give a person a notice under this section, the officer may require the person to give him his name and address.
(8B)A person commits an offence if-
(a)he fails to give his name and address when required to do so under subsection (8A) above, or
(b)he gives a false or inaccurate name or address in response to a requirement under that subsection.
No need for me to "wake up". I actually know what I'm talking about rather than just making up the law based on what I would like it to be rather than what it actually is. I very much "Comprehend" the legal position. Alas you do not.
@@SlowlyDecomposingSolicitor you're claiming that, if not I'm correct and finished. Are you able to comprehend.?
I think this guy willfully misrepresents the law for the sake of his career advancement
These enforcement firms are annoying. Some of them employ unfair tactics, and don't exercise discretion.
Regardless of how we feel, the law says councils are allowed to do this. And it also says you're committing a separate offence if you refuse to hand over your details. That might not seem fair, but the remedy for that is to write to your MP, not to disrupt what they're doing.
And if you get one of these fines, if you feel that strongly about it you can appeal (if the council has an appeals process) or contest it in court.
Is the saving on costs (CONTAX) by allowing a private company to charge citizens for alleged infringements passed onto the majority in the form of reduced CONTAX BILL?
The money (LICENCE?) paid by these companies to your local Authorities to allow them to operate ( fleece?) the public on their behalf, goes where?
If it is for the benefit of the public then why are we charged more each year for less services and shoddy work?
Appeal? Courts are closed to the public no phones, no cameras, no accountability, no justice unless you have plenty of time and money.
Does a drowning person ask for a drink of water?
Oh yes! you PAY 20%TAX on that too! DEBT SLAVES !!!
Tried it with me after I picked up my tab and put it the bin , I asked what the fine was for their reply was “ for the litter you put in the bin “ at that point I laughed and walked off whilst they was bleating on about a £2,000 fine for not giving details . Nothing ever came of because I picked up the litter meaning no crime was committed and I didn’t need to give my details .
To be honest i personally treat people like these like the pond life they are.
Not lawful civil
I agree with all your videos except this one. The only people you need to give your details to are the police, not third party subcontractors who profiteer £80 from every £100 collected with the other £20 going to the local authority. Simply walk away.
Can you pervert the course of justice unknowingly?
Ignorance of the law is never a defence if it gets to court.
If its an offence to not give details then they will be arrested... oh wait that would need the presence of a police officer.
It's a Civil Matter so the police wouldn't do anything anyway. I've seen a few videos on it.
You’re not required to give these private companies your details, if you’ve committed an offence they can call the police and they can take you down the nick and get your details and fine you through the courts properly rather than these private companies fining £120 and giving the council a £30 cut.
It's a Civil Matter so the police wouldn't get involved anyway. They have no Powers.
so the guys giving advice could give a leaflet to guy and walk away before coppers show up, should the envio guys inform that no fine if pick up liter?
You couldn’t be more wrong
All you keep saying it’s an offence
if I don’t want to then I don’t have to
so what can these GOONS actually do to me absolutely and complete nothing
Because the police do not turn up to these type of calls
If you then pick up the litter and put in the bin they are only supposed to caution you. But the Agents don't tell you that, as it is a money making racket to fine as many people as possible.
Which law say you have to give your name to agents? Bit like a cyclist refusing to give details to a Policeman. What is the copper going to do?
But they're supposed to give you chance to pick up the rubbish before they charge you we never do
I have a level2 warrant but I'm not allowed to ask those details. We have to follow PACE and our acts our powers are based on. What powers acts are these enforcement officers following ? Interesting. I'd only give my details to the police. I'd cause a fuss till the police turned up.
Of course a barrister would say that.
You don't give your name and address to anyone on the street .full stop.
I am sick of being harassed by our council litter patrol, the amount of times I've been followed and stopped in front of a busy shop /bus stops and TOLD they have just seen me drop my cigarette is now countless, at first I'd show my smoked end's stored in my pocket, I've had, I saw you drop a cigarette (I had them make clear what they classed a cigarette was) then showed them I smoke roll ups, now I just tell them to call the police as I walk away.
I have been accused of dropping a cigarette twice. Told them they are making it up as I'm a non smoker. They both claimed to have seen me drop it and demanded my name and address.
I pointed out there are forensics tests that can prove if someone has smoked a cigarette within a certain amount of time and mentioned that I would take them personally to court for perjury in the form of their legal declaration aka the form they were currently filling out which is a legal document for the purposes of the fine. Nothing makes them think twice about their actions than the thought they may personally be taken to court....
Simple Answer. Take your litter home or put it in a bin. How many times do you see where someone at Drive though T/A just drop their rubbish, and they were parked right by a bin. I've seen those sort of clips where people say " I do not have to give you my Details" but they very rarely show the videos right to the end
Good. Don't give them your details. Just silently walk away.
Well know ots not at all
We are told by the Council that these enforcement people have no incentive or commission payments relating to fines given . Is this believable ?
NO! it's a diversion of public resources into the pockets of those favoured in the loop. Why do you think your Taxes go up and your services go down.
YOU ARE BEING TURNED INTO DEBT SLAVES.
When I was a civil enforcrment officer (traffic warden) we were never given commission or measured in how many tickets we issued. The only metric was how many tickets were dropped on appeal, when a ticket is cancelled we would be counselled on how and when to give tickets properly.
@@TELBOYO10 were you directly employed by the Council ?
@@nigelhughes2947 No. The company was in partnership with Somerset council and many other councils.
@@TELBOYO10 So the GDPR was a private firm and you were not employed directly by the Council . Were you wearing a Council badge or describing yourself as a Council representive.
Wish this guy would be on the public's side being a k.c
Bs, I walk away. I no speaka any enlish
Would you take on the case?
I would never give them my details and just in a taxi or a bus
Are the enforcement officers who are usually just normal people not ment to offer you the opportunity to pick up your litter and then ticket you if you refuse?
You’ve already dropped the litter and committed the littering. Asking you to pick it up just emphasises your adult responsibility not to be a grub and drop litter.
@Ed Oeuna they're ment to give you an opportunity to pick it up, I didn't write the rules but I heard it was to take account of people who accidentally drop something.
@@cyruslad5462 - accidentally dropping something is one thing, and obviously shouldn’t result in a fine. I believe that they will ask you to pick up the litter, for an intentional drop, merely to make you clean up after yourself. You still get a fine.
@Ed Oeuna the wording of the legislation is to drop litter and leave it, so as long as you haven't walked away you should be able to pick it up and not get a fine.
@@EdOeuna czcams.com/video/okJQ3j0Ip8s/video.html
The uniforms look very similar to Police uniforms - similar enough that I would assume they were indeed police officers - ergo they are impersinating police officers - which is an offense.
But these enforcement clowns have no powers to stop or detain you so just walk off
Many people are suggesting that picking up the litter, after you’ve been stopped, is enough.
It isn’t. You’ve already demonstrated your distain for basic adulting. Being asked to pick it up is merely reinforcing adult behaviour.
Happen with me recently after I dropped receipt leaving the store. Only when enforcement officer stop me is when I realise but because I had continued to walk it was classed as intentional litter. After providing identification got issue the fine £120
People should just stop littering it's nasty
Ask the idiots for a council worker as you don't give details to a 3rd party interloper because you don't know if they are adequately trained in gdpr.
Im sorry, but if they arent coppers i really dont see what authority they have to demand a persons details and issue a fine.
I’m glad you finally got it that these people with cameras are perverting the course of justice. It’s never about the right to film the police officers. It’s always about the troublemakers behind the camera who are there to agitate for clicks and views and their CZcams payday.
they're supposed to ask if you're aware you dropped it and will you pick it up first.
I found that out some where on gov.uk a couple of years ago.
Yes but they don't.
@@CS-zn6pp then they're not acting lawfully and should be ignored.
Rules and legislations is not law
Okay answer this question if you’re a qualified solicitor if it’s criminal friends for me not to give my details and I say no
what are their powers absolutely nothing
I’m EX Metropolitan police and police will not turn up for this type of cool so you talk a load of rubbish