New Points Update! Guard Just got BUFFED?! | Astra Militarum | Warhammer 40,000
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2024
- Link to the new points changes:
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You know you have to do a 12 leman russ game now mordian. Its mandatory.
In his name!
I do 12 leman Russ's all the time, dun play against primary's marines very bad every time.
The lack of changes to Forge World just makes me think that the new standard in GW is going to be that they're going to kill Forge World lines as they release codexes, like they did with the Orks. Don't get too attached to your Earthshakers or Cyclopses, guys.
That seems to be the general consensus at this point
The reason the forgeworld stuff isn't changing except for nerfs is likely when we get a codex, all of them are going to Legends, as we saw with the Ork codex.
Basilisk nerf by Basilisk nerf, the Praetor gets more viable 😉
@SchalaZeal1same thing with my Minotaur! Only 1.5 basilisks for rerolled wounds and significantly tougher armour (albeit no earthshaker rounds or Heavy)
I would be extremely careful, because I have the feeling that they'll cut alot of the Forge World Guard Units when the Codex comes. Just like they did to the Orcs
@@redpandapizza8514but the guard codex is coming out 3 days before 11th editiob
Guy wrote a list so good they targeted it with a tailored nerf.
Every GW patch so far has just nerfed the top meta list’s units and buffed the stuff nobody is bringing 😆
@@CatharsisChaser to be fair, it's a good way to mix up the metawatcher lists
Calling this a buff is one of the takes of all time for sure
Sidegrade at best, but seeing almost every unit that made top performing lists competitive eat 10+ point nerfs does not bode well
Triple vanquisher will be hitting my tabletop very soon.
Triple Vanq, tripple Hydra
With respect, your avatar is missing the laser eyes, sir! You earned that one with this comment, for sure.
Hydras are still too expensive. Taurox Prime has better firepower at BS3 for 90 points as do Armigar Helverin which are basically 2 Hydras at BS3 for 140 points. Would have to be 65 points before I would even consider them.
Vanquishers are underrated though. They were decent at 155, at 145 just the hull and the secondary weapons is almost good enough. 3 x 6 Bullgryn are now 540 points for 54 x T6 wounds, -1 damage and 4++. 4 x Vanquisher are 580 points for 56 x T11 wounds, 2+ save who are also more mobile and have crazy amounts of firepower.
Scions in Taurox Primes in Mech Guard are stupid with re rolls to hit and wound and now are much cheaper then Kasrkin.
Friendship ended with Kasrkin. Tempestus scions are my new best friends.
I just got parts in to assemble two kasrkin squads, and now they are gunna turn into 4 5 man squads of scions I guess. Not really much of a difference from the rest of my infantry, but I’m gunna keep them separate.
Always have been...
Lol I was just pulling out my basilisks to paint. Now I'm intrigued by the Hydra. Two Hydras is 170 points, which is pretty spicy.
I think Eradicators with Multi-Meltas could be a solid replacement for Bullgryns. It’s a well costed, very tough, roadblock that you just charge in with and tie up units. It even gets to keep shooting with its heavy weapons while doing its job.
Shhh keep this quiet. It’s what I’ve done since the start of 10th
@@jules9094 Same! I just got a Mecharius Vulcan to try in a similar roll and I’m excited to see how it works.
I do this with 3x heavy flamera. You can charge hordes, grind through them quit quickly. Lets you ignore them compleatly with every thing else.
@@shlinn oh, for sure. I usually run one with 3x heavy flamers, but figured the multi-meltas would feel better as a bullgryn replacement
Eradicators pair exceptionally with rough riders as well as a frontline pinning unit
Roll up, blast, tank shock for some cheeky mortals, pin a problematic unit with your super defensive profile and then you can blast them in the following turn as well and the rough riders can land the killing blow with a follow up charge
And riders can even fall back and shoot/charge so you aren’t ever missing out on shooting into combat with the eradicator
10 leman russes and a rogal dorn in 1 list, could be fun, tanks go boom boom
in my local club I often see 11 knights lists (10 small knights 8 with thermal spears). all with ward save, all with feel no pain. The 11 tank list frankly just seems so unreasonably and hugely out-powercrept.
I've actually been bringing triple LRBT in my infantry-focus army, simply because they're lighter on the order requirement. Re-rolling to hit is great for accuracy
Seriously considering printing a Dirty Dozen Sherman-Russ STL list...
I think you mean Kelly’s Heroes”.
That sounds like a list that could take on 3 tigers
@@jimsutter2748 can't really take 12 Oddballs 😊
I'm just sad because i had just finished a 2000 points list with basilisks and now it's at 1995 because I had to get rid of soel stuff and it's pissing me off
I think the problem with using Rough Riders solely as fast objective grabbers is they'll compete with scoutmeras which are both faster (with scout) and more durable. Unless you're only fielding 5 of course.
It feels like the hydra might replace an armoured sentinel. 15 points more for two more autocannons shots (with twinlinked against everything) and a heavy bolter. More movement (but bigger), better toughness and wounds but inferior armour. And good against flyers.
I'm thinking of trying one and running all my 3 sentinels as scouts.
the executioner should get a plus 1 to wound for units at half strength. I feel like it would make it way more useful and different. and also it would play into the name more. cause it would actually be able to finsih off units and "execute" them. Even if it would get a points increase, as long as its reasonable I think it would be good and not too OP.
Field ord being the same price is nice, and the hydra points drop is pretty dope
Guard WILL drop more in winrate, all our near pier competitors that where close games before got buffed more than we did without taking as many nerfs. This is a dire day for Guard.
Yep, saying some bad russ variants dropping 10 points is a buff when almost every good unit you had got at least that much of a nerf is one of the takes of all time for sure
Scions can do some work but they don’t fulfill the same tactical role as kasrkin, nothing beats tarpitting potential of bullgryn, and indirect is basically the only thing this detachment is good for
Casual lists got buffed, competitive lists got nuked from orbit
"10 point hike on Manticores"
"Nuked from orbit"
Hypercompetitive players are so dramatic
@@TheLagiacrus1 because the manticore was the only widely used competitive unit to get a nerf…
Most well performing lists went up 10-20+% which is “nuked from orbit” territory considering they were incredibly high skill ceiling that were by no means dominating the meta in the first place
Learn to read before making snarky comments on things you apparently have no idea about 😚
@@TheLagiacrus1 Who are you even quoting? No one in this thread even said "10 point hike on Manticores" or "Nuked from orbit".
And this is from a causal setting, a lot of casual lists like myself brought a manticore and a basilisk, no russ's because they continually underpreform even in casual games and a unit of kasrkin because they are fun. So the data sheet cost me 50 points on a list and faction that is preforming BELOW standard. Make THAT make sense.
WAAC players dont care about this change as they will just buy the next flavor of the month faction/unit regardless.
@@syntheticjester1162 Literally look at the first reply
Sweet.
I'll be taking a full Tank Company (Commander with Demolisher, 3 Eradicators, 3 Exterminators, and 3 Vanquishers) with an Armoured Fist attached squad (Chimera with Creed, Kasrkin, and Sly Marbo). A pair of Enginseers to keep the Vanquishers operating, too.
Should be decent against all comers.
I like to think of the Leman Russ Battle Tank and the Hellhound as "order independent" vehicles. That is, their accuracy isn't as reliant on orders.
Idk why the Kasrkins costing more than scions would surprise you, they're pretty much better in every way save for the ability to deepstrike.
I have always been a Fan of the Leman Russ Fleet but now I have 3 damn Rogal Dorns!! Im loving all of these options and wow right now Scions are super cheap but I still oddly enough don't have any in my collection. I have always wanted to Kitbash two squads of them. I still love my Bassies though and the points increase does not change much for me.
I’m going to continue running my guard the way I have been regardless of points changes, my whole army only went up 25 points and I run 30 kasrkin and a manticore. I didn’t want to run scions before the change and I don’t want run them now simply because I don’t like the models.
I may or may not have submitted 2 lists, one to take advantage of these changes, and one that follows the Rage against the GW Machine theorycrafting method...
honestly i think kasrkin could do with stealth and either same points or a point increase
Forge world stuff is never going to be changed in fact they’ll probably get discontinued in the codex as retail splits from specialist games
Scions sure look great now, perhaps an army using the scions as a replacement for the now nerfed karsikin will be strong? What unit to fill the shoes of the bullgryn I’m not sure, after all, ogryn shoes are very large!
I want drops on super heavies to compensate for the mobility issues they have, i love to field a Shadowsword in all my lists, and even a Shadowsword+Banesword in one of my them. And a detachment that does something for tanks! Need more tanks!
Full Psions (3 Command Squads and 6 Full Units) has gone from 900pts -> 810pts.
It was pretty viable before, now you get a free Hydra and change.
Yeah or instead of continuously nerfing one of the core guard indentities that make the faction unique (artillery), they could have maybe given us a new detachment or something that incentivizes a different playstyle from the one that GW (you know, the people that made the rules?) created. But sure, lets just reinforce the tank meta across all armies, i love the idea of every battle eventually devolving to my tank army vs your tank army, regardless of faction.
3 Dorms, 1 Baneblade, 5 Scion Squads of 10 men each, 3 Scion Command Squads. Hmmm, how could this list get better?
Good news for my Fast Guard army. I mean Riders for 50 pt and Hellhounds cheaper as well mhmhmhmm
Elysian drop troops and Harakoni Warhawks are eating good. Though, the kasrkin nerf is sad because that’s how I’m running my some of my solar auxilia models.
As someone who owns no russes and lots of bullgryn, I am hurt
I love my hell hound ❤, no cover for you from my FOBs
145pts for vanquisher?! One-shot Willies are back, baby!!!!
I have to wonder if tripple eradicators will become the brood brothers meta going forward? Could have 3 of them AND 2 cyclopses and then 1500 points of gsc stuff.
I'm standing by the demolisher till the day I die.
I may still finish picking up and painting my army as its all 3rd party but i think im done trying to build to play and have no ambition to do so anymore and if i do i think it will be for another edition...
Once I get my 30 Winged Lancers assembled and painted you'll see me at Element Games sounding the charge!
Great video
Do American comps allow Medusa carriage batteries? In Aus basiclly all the events ban legends units so they're just not a thing here
I had to take out my.
castellan. The changes took me up to 2045
A great way for GW to nerf artillery is to get the forgeworld team to drop points on their non indirect units. I'm taking my basilisks until my malcador is 200pts.
Disagree on the Vanquisher hype tbh. It still suffer from 1 shot gun syndrome. It feels like a waste of an order to get it to hit on 3s, always staying still is unlikely, plus it will still sometimes bounce off anything decent which will have an invuln and FNP usually. The Lancer is the wrong comparison, compared to the Hammerhead it comes off much worse. The Hammerhead is cheaper, has a better gun with higher S, AP and Dev wounds plus a free inbuilt hit and wound reroll and hits on 3s natively into heavies instead of 4s. If you want to spam the board with cheap armour to slow down your opponent, use Eradicators for only 5 more points. They get a high enough average of shots with their main gun that half the time hitting on 4s is acceptable. I wish the Vanq was better, I have an alpha pattern Krieg one I love using with one but its just not worth it even at 145 now.
None of this really affects me.
I use waves of Guardsmen with mortar teams and the new Bombast field guns.
Now with Deathrider horsies.
And I call them horsies to irritate my opponents, who then spend so much time shooting them to jerky that my Guardsmen punch them in the face.
Also for the attilan rough riders they have 4 toughness and lose the infantry keyword so no anti-infantry 2+ shenanigans, and space marine toughness. They were fairly costed at 70. That lance on melta tip is doing 4+ wounds onto a warlord titan.
I have a list of 50 cav (20 rough and 30 death) and 2 big boy tanks and its done well in local games.
If you don't mention that servitors went down by 5 points, you're next for servitoring
My zero artillery list just went down by 20 pts, only increase for me was my 2 x 3 Bullgryns (I run 0 artillery and 0 Kasrkin)
mine dropped 130pts. (Tanks and Scions)
So are bombasts a consideration yet? I mean, with the increases in other artie, are they getting better by comparison? I love the models, but the times I've used them, they just doesn't seem to perform that well.
Chuckles in Mortars
Still not a fan of battle cannons. Demo tank commanders leading exterminators does sound fun though. Dusting off the hellhounds too. Scion objective sweeper teams does sound pretty legit. A full bob of them is 170, and that's triple plasma, triple melta, triple plasma pistol, a grenade launcher and a volleygun that lands with First Rank/Second Rank, hit rerolls and sustained hits.
Mordian 12 Russ skew list NOW! FOR THE EMEROR!
The Eradicator lost the Ignores cover ability in the app. It now has can shoot into combat. I hope it's a bug.
EDIT:
I guess I was wrong. I was sure its ability "Urban warfare" was different. But I guess I'm misremebering.
Eradication can always shoot into combat because it’s a vehicle. The ignores cover rule is still there on the weapon’s datasheet
There is literally no change on the app
Tank Commander, Grand Strategist: 220
2x Leman Russ Exterminator: 340
3x Leman Russ Battle Tank: 510
3x Leman Russ Vanquisher: 435
3x Leman Russ Eradicator: 450
Tech Priest: 45
id rather
3 tc 1 gs, 630
3 lre: 510
3 lrbt: 510
2 lr5: 300
cog boi: 45
11 tanks vs 12 but 4 orders instead of 2, and more battle/demolisher cannons.
I wish the Forge World units would get a little more attention for points rebalance. I really would like to put in a Malcador, as the new plastic Solar Auxilia model is really nice. However for 5 more points, you can run a Russ, with a better battle cannon, and a Hydra, with an arguably better autocannon loadout.
Remember, the malcador is significantly more durable with built in armour of contempt and more wounds. You can also give it two lascannons instead of the single one you find on russ.
@@drizzziit1 A Leman Russ and Hydra definitely have more combined wounds and firepower than a Malcador. For the extra 5 points, the Hydra and Russ have 6 extra wounds, an extra main weapon, one extra hull weapon, an extra stubber, and an extra hunter killer missile over the single Malcador. The Russ's Battle Cannon is even +1 strength over the Malcador's Battle cannon. There probably is some convoluted and incredibly unlikely scenario where the armor of contempt makes the Malcador more durable than the combined Russ and Hydra, but I sure can't think of any.
@@jimsutter2748 Yeah more units is always better in all lists ever but at least in a russ vs dorn comparison they are comparable and the Malcador damage, save and durability potential is exponentially higher. (built in -1 AP on a 2+ save T11, 18 wounds tank with the potential to use smoke like the russ IS crazy and not niche)
If you shoot a Malcador in cover / smoke with a lascannon it has a 3+ save...
The extra lascannon more than makes up for the battlecanon being S9 (Even at 10 it's almost useless as anti armor)
@@drizzziit1 but the Malcador is 70 points more than the Russ. Do you truly believe that the benefits you just listed are 80 points of benefit?
I like big buffs and I cannot lie 🎶
One thing I’m glad about is that the Legends points haven’t changed. My Armageddon Pattern Medusas are still only 105 points.
Then not lowering any points though just makes me they aren’t going to be around by the codex.
play about (2000 points)
Astra Militarum
Strike Force (2000 points)
Combined Regiment
CHARACTERS
Gaunt’s Ghosts (100 points)
• 1x Ibram Gaunt
• 1x Bolt Pistol
1x Gaunt’s chainsword
• 1x Colm Corbec
• 1x Corbec’s hot-shot lascarbine
1x Straight silver knife
• 1x Elim Rawne
• 1x Rawne’s lascarbine
1x Straight silver knife
• 1x Hlaine Larkin
• 1x Larkin’s long-las
1x Straight silver knife
• 1x ’Try Again’ Bragg
• 1x Bragg’s autocannon
1x Straight silver knife
• 1x Oan Mkoll
• 1x Lascarbine
1x Mkoll’s straight silver knife
Lord Solar Leontus (125 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Conquest
1x Konstantin’s hooves
1x Sol’s Righteous Gaze
Platoon Command Squad (60 points)
• 1x Platoon Commander
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 4x Veteran Guardsman
• 4x Close combat weapon
4x Lasgun
4x Laspistol
Tank Commander (220 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Demolisher battle cannon
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
2x Militarum plasma cannon
• Enhancement: Grand Strategist
Ursula Creed (55 points)
• 1x Duty and Vengeance
1x Power weapon
BATTLELINE
Cadian Shock Troops (120 points)
• 2x Shock Trooper Sergeant
• 2x Close combat weapon
2x Drum-fed autogun
• 18x Shock Trooper
• 18x Close combat weapon
14x Lasgun
2x Meltagun
2x Plasma gun
1x Vox-caster
Catachan Jungle Fighters (55 points)
• 1x Jungle Fighter Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 9x Jungle Fighter
• 9x Close combat weapon
2x Flamer
7x Lasgun
Catachan Jungle Fighters (55 points)
• 1x Jungle Fighter Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 9x Jungle Fighter
• 9x Close combat weapon
2x Flamer
7x Lasgun
Catachan Jungle Fighters (55 points)
• 1x Jungle Fighter Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 9x Jungle Fighter
• 9x Close combat weapon
2x Flamer
7x Lasgun
OTHER DATASHEETS
Field Ordnance Battery (120 points)
• 2x Ordnance Team
• 2x Battery close combat weapons
2x Bombast field gun
2x Lasgun
2x Laspistol
Field Ordnance Battery (120 points)
• 2x Ordnance Team
• 2x Battery close combat weapons
2x Bombast field gun
2x Lasgun
2x Laspistol
Leman Russ Battle Tank (170 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
1x Leman Russ battle cannon
2x Plasma cannon
Leman Russ Battle Tank (170 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
1x Leman Russ battle cannon
2x Plasma cannon
Leman Russ Exterminator (170 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Exterminator autocannon
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
2x Multi-melta
Leman Russ Vanquisher (145 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
2x Plasma cannon
1x Vanquisher battle cannon
Scout Sentinels (60 points)
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
1x Sentinel chainsaw
Tempestus Scions (100 points)
• 1x Tempestor
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• 9x Tempestus Scion
• 9x Close combat weapon
5x Hot-shot lasgun
2x Meltagun
2x Plasma gun
Tempestus Scions (100 points)
• 1x Tempestor
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• 9x Tempestus Scion
• 9x Close combat weapon
5x Hot-shot lasgun
2x Meltagun
2x Plasma gun
Exported with App Version: v1.13.0 (41), Data Version: v373
Eradicator = Metal Slug 🤣
I’m ok with the artillery changes. I really don’t think that artillery should be able to carry the army’s damage output like how it was and should definitely be more of a support unit.
I am really annoyed with the nerfs to the Kasrkin and bullgryn. Both units seemed like they were in a good spot. It seems really dumb that an army that is generally struggling are paying for the sins of a couple of competitive players.
I will say the rest of the point changes are really nice and well done. My tanks and scions are very happy with the changes.
Just swap to scions with the Kasrkin?
I’d like to see the points nerfs to Lord Solar. Mix it up in a real way without limiting those cool units (I think the Bullgryn are still viable). Maybe 160 for the Lord Solar.
With you tho, I liked Kasrkin and Bullgryn where they were.
Tempestus Baybeeeee!
@@stuartbanana5083 Problem with nerfing Solar is that his cost isn't 125. It's 245 cause you got to bring a command squad and infantry to make his orders actually usable at a decent range.
Triple Dorn + Scions?
I don't think the 20 pts on kasrkin are a big deal in the "Aeldari Militarum" list. At first glance its a 20% nerf, but in practice its going from 300 pts + 10 cp for 80 kasrkin to 360 pts + 10 cp. Saving/generating cp seems to cost 15-20 pts per cp based on creed/solar pricing. In contrast I think the bullgryn are a bigger deal. They are there to prevent certain matchups decapitating lord solar and the artillery park turn 1/2 with a hyper elite melee threat in the back line.
Storm Troopers are too cheep, I can't wait to hear the next round of complaints about guard firepower when the meta realises.
I think the Dorn will resurge once the meta has shifted away from teching to kill C'Tan. August maybe?
In my opinion, guard got nerfed unless you are tank spam. Especially when you look at way the orcs not treated - not only did they get points drops but several of the builds in their codex are better. I expect them to dominate the new media over the next couple weeks.
Vanq squad forever.
Forgeworld only gets nerfed no points cuts since 8th edition
Sad Carnodon noises
It is possible the Imperial Guard will lose all Forge World units when the Codex drops...
I think call this overall a buff is a tiny bit of cope. It at best just untilts the playing field a little bit and encourages actual Guard lists and not Guard-skinned Dark Angels lists like Gaylard’s.
Its a healthier internal balance, but not a faction buff.
It is a straight hit in the face, nothing else, despite some super competitive fools, every one else will feel the nerve... And that despite the 45win %....
I am done with 40k until the codex drops, and then I will see... Such mich frustration just because of this awful company
Good day to be a Vanquisher fan 😈
Why is it that every unit i buy gets nerfed before i even get to paint it? This game sucks. And we're already at the bottom of the win list. Wtf?
Welcome to the guard! I bought the codex the day before the new edition was announced
This whole "competitive play" obsession from GW makes literally no sense because the game has never been balanced and trying to do so is always going to leave someone upset.
My advice to you is just buy and play the models you think are cool because at the end of the day, rules are temporary but plastic is forever
@@PurpleIsALetter not even that, but constantly requiring folks to rebuild their lists while in the middle of projects.
@@operator9858 Yeah that's why I'm saying prioritze models you like and worry about the list later
@@PurpleIsALetter ya but id kinda rather work towards a list and expand out rather then going down the line.
*EMPEROR
I do my part 🫡
🫡🫡🫡
Thank you Mordian for focusing on the Hobby we Love instead of Woke ( or ant woke) Nonsense!!!
Can you do an update for the 500 and 1k point lists? Or are they still the same
Hello