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OM System OM-1 Computational Focus Stacking Part 2 The Fine Print
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2022
- OM System OM-1 continuation video on Focus Stacking. An in-depth tutorial on focus stacking settings and quick tips to help you take better images.
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Thanks for the explanation. The developers have come up with an inconvenient way. It would be better to do so:
- setting the aperture
- focusing on the near point
- focus on the farthest point
the camera itself makes the right number of frames
I agree. Now don't get me started on the menu system! So many things still don't make sense. :)
The Fuji XT-4 has exactly what you describe. I've played with it just a little and my impression is it is best used when the camera is on a tripod. Handheld would be almost impossible unless you have remarkably stable hands. Just to much back and forth identifying front and back points with manual focus and then punching your way out of an extensive menu system before you can press the shutter. On Olympus all you have to do is autofocus on the appropriate point and press the shutter after setting the variables. I've done this many times handheld wit pretty good success.
@@leonardstanton3591 yes I am surprised no other manufacturer has implemented Fujis idea of visually setting point A and B using the focus ring, and having the camera work it out. But yes, Fuji don't really do any computational stuff, so you have to stack in post, and tripod may be best for this. The OM menu for these features is much better though, I think.
@@leonardstanton3591 And in fuji, an object of 2 cm, from point A to point B, even with a step of 9, there will be about 50 photos, as their algorithms also work, up to 15 photos are enough for subject shooting, as well as for macro.
It's just that it was possible to accurately calculate everything, the aperture and the distance to the object, and would show that with 15 photos in increments of 5, the depth of field would be 10mm, etc.
Sorry for the written, google translate))
I have been using focus stacking with the E-M5III camera to shoot the orchid flowers from the orchids that I grow. I have found that the focus differential of 1 works fine - and the E-M5III takes 8 shots. I haven't seen any focus stacking failures. The actual focus distance is in the Exif information for the raw images that are taken with different distances, so if you are curious, you can see exactly how the camera is varying focus. That is how I figured out that the default focus differential of 5 was too large for the flowers. Great video and very helpful! I just got my OM-1 and will be using it for my orchid images.
Thanks for the feedback!
That's helpful, thank you. I didn't realise it was in the exif
Excellent tutorial. I tried stacking various times, but never satisfied. Now I'm trying this new settings for my macros. Never seen placing the starting point in the middle. I always started at the bottom and cried, lol, when I looked at my images. Thank you Rob
Glad it helped!
Haven't gotten my Camry yet, but I'm anticipating using all of these great functions that you talk about. Got to be the best camera yet for computational! Your explanations and time spent as well worth it.
Thank you! Still a lot to explore.
Same here. Frustrating isn't it. Still, with Rob's help we will be well prepared !
what a nice tutorial Rob, I would appreciate if you continue to teach us these techniques !
Thanks. I'll try.
Thanks Rob. Best explanation that I have seen yet. (Even if a little over simplified🙂).
I have the m1-II and III and have done a lot of macro focus stacking. I tend to shoot at f2.8 , 15 shots, differential of 5. I've found it is better to focus about a third of the way in, rather than halfway in.
Your adding a star rating to the stacked image is great.
I understand from an OM Systems presentation that the OM-1 does automatically add a flag of some sort to the stacked image. What they did not say was whether this flag would show in other than the OM processing software.
So the star method might in the end be the way to go, once my OM-1 arrives I'll try it out.
Thanks again
It's a fabulous lens!
Great job of explaining a very ambiguous setting, focus differential.
Thanks!
Thank you so much. Excellent tutorial!
Glad it was helpful!
Great stuff keep um coming love it
Thanks, will do!
Thanks Rob 👍
Thanks for watching!
Another great and very helpful video Rob. I am just looking at getting into stacking with my OMD EM5 mark III which I plan to use a lot when doing macro. I will be using the 60mm lens a lot - will try with f/4, focus in the centre, focus differential of 5 and see how it goes! My camera is a bit different of course but I can use a lot of what you cover. Many thanks
Thanks!
Very helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks!
Thank you!
In general, it was possible to create when setting the number of photos and the step, so that the picking would show the color occupied by the depth of field coverage)))
I think this is a question. There is not a way to do that I know of.
Great info! I use the Godox TT-350 and the Cygnustech diffuser and I can shoot an 8 frame focus stack handheld using these settings:
1/50 shutter, f/5.6, ISO 400 at 1/32 flash power.
With fresh batteries the flash will keep up. Also Godox flash units will communicate with the camera so you don't need to set timing.
I know people may ask why I don't shoot at base ISO but I would have to bump up my flash power. Then it will be too slow to hand hold.
I didn't know the Godox will set the timing. I found out my flashes work on-camera, but the triggers don't work with focus stacking. Weird. It all works fine on my EM1.3.
@@RobTrek I have never tried it with a trigger. Huh, that is odd.
I guess technically the flash doesn't set the timing, it just tells the camera to wait from shooting until it's ready to flash again. So if I'm shooting 1/16 power for an 8 frame focus stack, it usually will take twice as long to shoot the last two frames. This can really throw you because you might think the focus stack is done, move the camera and mess up the rest of the stack.
So if you are looking for consistent timing, you may want to set the timing in camera but at least without setting the timing the Godox won't cause any dark or black frames.
So you just leave the charge time at zero, but the camera sets any necessary delay?
@@ianhowarth1530 there's no need to change settings in camera, keep it at zero. The flash seems to sync nicely with the camera in manual mode.
I have done even 25 frame focus bracket and it simply slows down without dark or black frames. The time I notice a dark or black frame is when the batteries need replaced. That high of a frame count does tax the flash so now I have a bigger Godox flash unit and it seems to work well also.
To put numbers on it, a focus stack of 8 takes the original focus point, two nearer, and 5 further back. This is a pain if you re-use the shots later in a program like Helicon, as they are not in order. Bracketing rather than stacking is what's needed then.
To work out all the numbers in stacking mode, take a macro or close focus lens and photograph a ruler or tape measure, and see what's in focus, and in what order!
According to Helicon when the pictures are not in order you have to use Method A. Maybe you can try it.
@@jacquesdemers1998 I have :-) Although for a lot of my close focus subjects Method C works best...
Thanks. This was very helpful. I have been experimenting with focus stacking with flowers over the last couple of days. I solved the problem of gaps in focus as you did (reducing the differential). Many times, I get the "focus stacking failed" message. I'm not sure exactly what triggers the failure. I assume that I don't have to hold the camera rock steady while it is processing.
It's a bit unpredictable sometimes. Sometimes low contrast subjects fail like white roses and such.
Lots of great tips! I should have searched for this video before I left my last comment. Sorry ‘bout that.
No worries!
Great job explaining focus stacking parameters! Thank You Rob 👍
Thank you. I try.
Rob - More like this please! I am interested in the interaction between f-stop, number of shots, the "diff" setting, and the distance to the object. I am doing some experimenting with these factors for my orchid shooting - and I don't really understand the interaction yet. (What is really irritating is that the OM-1 doesn't include focus distance in the EXIF data (the E-M5III does) - so it is hard to actually see how the camera is focusing - I hope OM Digital fixes that.)
I like to practice with a fake set of flowers I bought at Walmart for $10.
You could practice with a ruler, set at an angle and as long as it roughly matched the distance you want to capture, you could use that to form an opinion on how much area was in focus - per step and per f-stop.
The other comment - the stack of RAW files can be loaded into PS - auto aligned and then auto-blended - which means you could do some general tweaking to the RAW files before bringing into PS. I would treat them all the same, but it would allow you to have a bit more control, rather than have to settle for a JPG.
Thank you very much for this helpfull Video. I have read in a book about the em1.2 that a focus-step of 3 creates focus steps, that correspond exactly to the DoF of the aperture and distance used. So you will not have blurr areas. Can you confirm that ?
Hmmm, I'll have to try it and see. I don't have my em1.2 anymore so will have to test on my em5.3 and em1.3.
If you're using an Olympus flash the charging time can be set to 0 sec. The flash will tell the camera when it's ready for another shot. But there are som limitations. You must shoot in manual mode and the shutter speed was limited to 1/100 , at least in my case.
Thank you for explaing the parameter settings. Unfortionatly it's still a trial and error game. I fully agree with Sergo that a better solution is to set the near and far point as with an old Canon camera I once had.
Thanks Lars. I forgot about the Olympus branded flashes automatically adjusting the charge time. Sorry about the stream today. I was in a bad mood.
I use the Olympus macro flash, and canʻt even get it to fire on the OM1 in focus stacking. Tried 1/100 - still didnʻt work.
Thank you for the time you put into these videos I have really learned so much. The only issue I have with focus stacking and bracketing is getting my OM1 and the V860iii to work together. It will work single shot but not for stacking is anyone else having these problems or is it just me ? . The camera has the latest firmware 1.5 . Any explanation or answer would be most appreciated thank you. If anyone has figured it out or the 2 are just not compatible then I would love to know I've tried finding the answer on the net but there's very little on the OM1 and V860iii . Thanks in advance for a reply.
Hi. I have a "solution" here: czcams.com/video/Ibl0V0tVsQw/video.html
Thank you for all your hard work in helping us progress with all the wonderful things this camera will do. I have a question. Why do you only work with FOCUS STACKING instead of FOCUS BRACKETING. When I did focus stacking on a rail and processing the captures front to back in Photoshop it seems an easier way to look at the situation. I pretty sure FOCUS STACKING was the terminology used front to back in Macro photograph.using photoshop. Is there any difference in quality of the merged photographs using Stacking vs. bracketing ? Thanks for your help
Honestly I don't do a lot of focus stacking/bracketing. The in-camera stacking seems to work pretty well and is there for convenience. I think bracketing and then stacking in software will generally yield better results as you have more control.
Rob, you suggested using the ISO button to assign the star rating. Did you re-assign the function of the ISO button, or is that a default function in the OM-1 when the review image is on? Thanks
It is the default. Not sure it can be changed. It only acts to assign when in the playback view.
Rob if you use an Olympus flash with focus stacking, setting time functions for charging is not required, as the Olympus flash performs automatically
Thanks. I forgot about that since I use Godox.
Okay, so I tried a couple of things. The OM-1 with the 60mm macro, and the Godox flash trigger, the bigger one like you have, and a Godox flash. I set to focus stacking, the camera takes the photos, the flash fires and everything looks fine but it won't create the stack. If I use the OEM flash on camera, no problem, I don't even have to set a delay, those shots pop off zip, zip, zip and stack just fine.
I tried it on Manual flash and also TTL. The TTL version was horrible. The flash fired at what looked like full power, totally blown out. On manual, I was able to get pleasing results. But two things. The camera automatically set the shutter speed to 1/50 even though I had set it to 1/250. And when the stack was completed, the camera also reset the aperture to f/2.8, from the f/11 that I had set it at for the series. This is bummer for me. I really must have off camera flash for snowflakes. I will probably just use focus bracketing and merge them in post.
Hi, Larry. I don't understand the weird behavior of Godox on the OM-1. But there are a couple of work-arounds that should allow bracketing and stacking.
#1 $0.00 Put the Godox Flash into S1 mode so it fires via it's optical trigger. Set the power manually on the Godox Flash as needed. Put the OEM flash on your camera. Set it's power to the lowest power you can but can still trigger the Godox Off Camera.
#2 $35.00 Use a "dumb" single pin wireless trigger/reciever set. Set the power on the Godox Flash as needed. I use this one amzn.to/3Ii6B5d
#3 $11.00 Use a flash pc adapter. Mount that to your camera and then mount the Godox Pro Trigger on top of that. You can now control the flash off camera manually from the trigger. You will need this: amzn.to/3lwoC7b
You may have some old single pin triggers laying around, so give it a try and let me know.
-Rob
@@RobTrek I’ll have to do some more research. I’m using the Godox MF-12 macro flashes. I’m not sure if they have an optical trigger built in. It wouldn’t be a big deal once I get the power dialed in.
@@RobTrek I’m using the Godox MC-12 macro flashes. They do have an S1 and S2 optical receiver, so that might work. The other two options won’t work with these flashes. Rather defeats the purpose of the Godox trigger, but I doubt that it’s their fault. Maybe OM Digital Solutions will find a solution. Given that they have their own similar flash system, I am not hopeful.
@@LarryFasnacht The optical triggers are not as reliable outdoors, but do work well indoors. I saw a thread somewhere where someone spent some time with OM tech support about this. Ultimately they said there is no problem with the camera. I don't see why option 3 wouldn't work. You can manually control the flashes from the trigger rather than making the settings on each flash directly.
@@RobTrek I’m calling bull on that one. It’s the stacking in camera that isn’t working. The flash is firing and exposing just fine. Interesting.
Thanks Rob, for an informative video. Have you any updates on the off-camera flash bug between the Godox gear and the OM-1? I have just started doing macro flash, and thought I must be doing something wrong. Things work fine with the V1 on the OM-1, and with the off-camera setup with the E-M1 Mark II using the XPro and remote V1, but fail badly with the V1 off-camera using the OM-1. Very slow, and crashes after 13 shots. I haven't tried with stacking -- only with bracketing.
I have the same problem. However, a possible solution is Godox has a new trigger that has a "Single Pin" mode. I haven't tried it, but that may work. You'll just have to work in full manual.
Thanks Rob. I emailed Godox and OM. I suspect it's a Godox issue, but perhaps OM systems can / will do something about it. They were quite responsive when I complained about the OM-1's early west-of-Greenwich GPS truncation issue.
After wasting an afternoon photographing a ruler, I've pretty much given up on in camera stacking. First your not sure how far closer the first point will be which removes a layer of control. With bracketing only it always starts at the focal point you chose and moves away from the camera. No back and forth stuff. However the main reason I've given up on in camera stacking is the dramatic difference in the stacked depth of field as produced by the camera and external software. Starting at 12" from the camera at f/8 with settings at 15 shots and steps at 5 the final DOF for in camera stacking is about 2 3/4" versus 5 1/4" stacking with Photoshop or Zerene Stacker. It gets worse at larger steps. There was also a tendency of the in camera stacking DOF to vary and actually reduce when increasing the step size with every thing else the same. The final advantage to external stacking is the cropping is much less than what Olympus seems to think is needed. The whole thing is pretty counter intuitive!
I actually agree with you. In-camera stacking works okay, and even if it were excellent, you still get a jpg. Nothing beats manually stacking. More precision and better results - with a little practice of course.
Hi, I’m a bit new to this. I watched your explanation and it occurred to me that the best approach is to always put the number of shots on the highest setting and the focus differential on the lowest. Is this too simple/have I completely misunderstood? Thanks! Dave
For in-camera stacking, I don't see why that wouldn't work for static images. As the process will take longer, especially if combined with flash, it's important the subject doesn't move.
Wow, new to this and now totally confused. Will watch again when brain recovered
Part 1 is a bit more practical so watch that first if you haven't already.
FD of a millimeter is what I use in my macro work,experimenting is key
Absolutely! Thanks.
One comment about the OM-1 and Focus Stacking. I have been using my E-M5III and focus stacking for my orchid photos. That camera has extensive EXIF information that is missing for the OM-1. For example, the EXIF Composit section includes Hyperfocal Distance and the Makers Notes shows the Focus Distance - very useful to see what the camera is actually doing when changing focus for each of the shots. It's not available for the OM-1 - In fact the OM-1 doesn't output Makers Notes at all. I submitted a support request to OM-Digital - maybe this will be added in a firmware update. This is a regression and not good.
There is other exif data missing too. Not sure why they stripped out some stuff. Hopefully a firmware update fixes it.
Thank you for explaining a difficult subject. Away from the slightly. I notice in the specifications page they mention 'One Push Tele-converter (2×)'. What is this please?
This is a digital teleconverter. It simply crops in to give you a 2x zoom.
@@RobTrek thank you
Thanks for this. I'm seriously considering purchasing an OM-1. I like to photograph insects, and some of them move around a little bit. How fast does the camera fire off the 15 shots? Also, can I hand-hold the camera? I won't have any problem with flowers moving (unless there is a wind), but I'm concerned that it might not work with insects if they move during the exposures.
Hi David, I answered your question in this video czcams.com/video/uNsNmYGtaVk/video.html
@@RobTrek Thanks!
weird that you have to focus in the middle for stacking and the closest point for bracketing, why did they make it different?
I'm not sure why. Your guess is as good as mine.
Failures with flash might be due to uneven exposure….? Very few flashes can fire exactly the same every time. I’d say none are speedlights. The only flashes I know that can do it are studio flash units that cost $15,000 and are guaranteed to a tenth of a stop. So I’m wondering if the camera’s interpolation software gets spooked by a bad exposure and drops the frame, making an internal stack impossible but might not affect a bracketed sequence. I don’t know if this would have anything to do with cycling time for the flash or whether it’s just a fact with speedlights. Some of the older Canon units were notorious for it.
I don't do this kind of bracketing enough to add any insight. I'm pretty sure the camera won't stack internally if there is a bad frame. I would hope the internal stacking feature would smooth the exposure but it may just happen more naturally when blending. I'd have to experiment to get a feel for what's really going on. But the core problem is probably the speedlight being off shot to shot.
Will this work when doing land scape?
Yes. Principles are the same.
Hi Rob, do I need to tell you that the part about the steps is still very confusing🤣. You know that I shoot Fuji, so I called their technical support for an explanation on how to use the steps, their answer was to experiment (LOL).
In other words, you're on your own! It's not just Fuji, but so much tech support across industries are dismissive and condescending.
I swear, this made me more confused about a process I actually had thought I understood. Guess I’ll just have to experiment on my own and see what happens.
Sorry about that. Practicing is really the best way to learn.
More confused now.
I thought focusing 1.3 into the subject or area, so the stacking would be about at the beginning.
Bracketing sounds easier because you can focus on the closest point and it would count its way back.
I also prefer bracketing and stacking later. You get much better precision and more range. For stacking, going 1.3 is a good rule of thumb, but I still prefer starting even closer and using more steps.
Thanks Rob. Any work back from OM Systems regarding the flash focus stacking bug? I have used this with no problems on my EM1 MK III and wasn’t aware there is a problem with it on the OM1.
It seems when I use my remote godox triggers - Xpro and XT1, is when I have the problem. Putting the flash directly on the OM1 is fine. However, on my EM1.3, everything works as expected.
👍👍👍 En Français
Thank you!
I canʻt even get the flash to fire with the focus stacking settings. Very disappointing. My OmD M1 mark III works like a charm, the OM-1 does not.
I think I'll stick with focus bracketing. Just too many variables affecting stacking, and too many ambiguities. Also, I can bracket with any lens I like, unlike the lens restrictions imposed with focus stacking. I can bracket with all my 1.8 primes, my Panasonic lenses and any third party lens I happen to have. If I bracket manually, I can bracket with manual focus lenses too. And I don't end up with a jpeg in the end. It's a neat trick though.
I think the in-camera stacking will get there eventually. For now, nothing beats doing it on a computer with good software. That said, the in-camera stacking can at least give you an idea of the final image.
Fantastic comment; sums up pros and cons of each method in a few sentences.
So is the Focus Stacking with flash fixed now? There’s a question I can answer myself isn’t it? Why don’t I just go do that…
The flash should work on-camera in manual mode. TTL still doesn't work.
@@RobTrek Interesting. It’s on my mind now as I have pre-ordered the 90mm macro and am looking to do some snowflake photography, which probably won’t happen given the projected shipping date, but it is on my mind. I can’t do snowflakes without off camera flash.
I'm confused about where to focus in focus stacking. Chris McGinnis in the OM Systems video (at czcams.com/video/7li_p6zXqhQ/video.html) says to focus on the nearest point of the subject. Not quite what you said. What am I missing?
Sorry I missed you comment. It got put into a "review" folder. When you do focus bracketing without in-camera stacking, you focus on the nearest point. When doing in-camera stacking, you're supposed to focus on the subject directly. Hope that helps. -Rob
Regarding the two fireplace shots.
You mention focusing on the lighthouse and everything was in focus "right here."
"Right here" doesn't show your mouse pointer and the focus on the lighthouse and the candle are blurry too.
Still confused.
Right hand image you say is all in focus including the candle. The candle is out of focus.
Sorry about the mouse not showing. Yes, the candle is still out of focus. Much less than before. So not the perfect example.
Step scale on white board is incorrect. There are only 4 steps to where 5 is marked.
Good catch! Thanks.
Panasonic does this better and isn’t even dependent on compatible lenses
I like the Panasonic too. I don't use the feature much in either camera but not needing a compatible lens is a huge plus.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you!