OM Systems OM-1 C-AF Tracking Modes, AIAF & Greener Focus Points ep.432
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
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00:16 Alan Kefauver
Very good. I find your vids very valuable. but 3 new questions. 1. In spot AF when I focus the green box come on and then disappears. How can I keep it on as in darker conditions its hard to see the box. 2. C-AF vs C-AF with tracking. and 3. totally different question- Can you do a vid on the 150-400 f/4.5...How to program the lens buttons, and at what range. Can the 4 buttons be configured separately for different functions? The manual that came with the lens is lacking any info.
05:12 Santamike212
Rob, When you get time. Would you go over tracking in detail. OM 1 subject detect on and off. Thanks, Mike
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Thank for such great info, Rob. What OM-Systems should be saying about TR is, "Don't bother using it at all, as it is absolutely useless, and it really is time we sorted it out!"
So true.
Excellent description of C-AF+TR vs. C-AF - I FINALLY understand what I was doing wrong in bird photography.
Glad it helped!
Thanks Rob. Some very useful information here. Cheers.
Thanks, Jeff. Hope all is well.
Very helpful Rob. Thank you
Thank you!
Thank you for these details.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video clip Rob. Your points are as always extremely useful. Always have issues with focusing and tracking as an amateur wildlife photographer, particularly with very fast moving small birds and procapture 🤔🤔. Always look forward to your chat shows when you have time to do them. Both yourself and other people on your show always give me at least one point of useful information. You are as always welcome to come to London and stay as the cost of hotels etc is ridiculously high here!!!!
Thank you! Maybe one day I'll go. It's a little hard right now with Ellie.
Very informative. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the info on the green point. I had forgotten we can adjust colors and opacity. I agree it should be simpler via a color wheel of some type.
I think continuous auto focus with tracking is technology that came to hybrid cameras from video cameras. Often times the videographer needs the focus to be able to follow a person a crossed the frame where the camera is stationary or panning, causing the subject to move within the frame. it does work in that kind of situation, and I think it was always designed for that. As photographers, we are typically moving the camera to follow our subject all snapping pictures so continuous auto focus without tracking works better.
I didn't know that about videographers. It seems contradictory to Olympus's history with stills camera, that a video centric AF algorithm would be put in their cameras. But I can see where tracking from a stationary position would probably perform better.
I suspect the serious movie makers still manually pull focus. But for folks like is that mostly shoot stills, the ability have focus follow a subject that could make panning hard or jerky is a feature a lot of people would like. To expect tracking to follow the random movements of birds or cats that move so quickly has been hard to accomplish. Maybe the subject detection is a way to handle that kind of stuff and the tracking can still work for humans on foot or else rely on camera panning to keep a subject within the zone we have CAF assigned to.
At least that has been mostly successful for me. I can’t speak for other camera systems. I have seen reviews of the Sony A7Slll that look pretty good for tracking people in movie recording.
@@RobTrekit was sort of a reasonable guess. Digital movie cameras have been shooting 30fps and faster with no mechanical shutter for decades. The algorithms to identify and adjust focus as something moves has been around but improvements have surely been made as processing speeds increases. I’m only supposing that the tracking was developed first for movie making cameras since they had the advantage of continuous electronic shutters with the emphasis being on motion capture vs megapixels of resolution that still photography has pursued. Now the processing might be fast enough to do both well but there is still an advantage for 4k worth of data compared to covering a 20MP sensor’s added data.
Perhaps the stills route with subject Ai might one day merge with movie recording and we get really good tracking of every subject. Maybe you will have an engineer with practical knowledge of how it really works be able to explain it better.
In every example I’ve seen of caf+tracking on recent cameras from Sony and Canon it has been in the context of video recording. On the stills side it’s all about subject detection and tracking.
Superb!
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you for your imformation
My pleasure!
Thanks again.
My pleasure!
Thanks Rob. AF performance is really the ultimate challenge for mirrorless cameras and Sony seem to have mastered this technology better than anyone else (in addition to my OM-1 I also use a ZV-1, the focus of which works like dream). Anyway, spare a thought for Panasonic that kept its contrast-detect only AF until two minutes ago...
I was thinking about getting a long lens for my Panasonic S5. Yes, the Sony has pretty impressive tracking.
I spend quite some time with testing CAF+Tracking and I. An not fully echo Robs comments. The algorithm seems to be based on the live view image to identify the subject. What really helped me to creating improve tracking performance is shooting electronic shutter, increasing contrast of the live view image, CAF sensitivity +2, target point On1, af target single point, high enough ISO to freeze motion. I now get >90% hit rate photographing my little kids running around. I even leave face detect on and it’s not a problem rather the opposite. Tracking seems to work best when there is enough contrast
Thank you for sharing your tip and experience. I don't have any kids and I rarely photography people in general. But face detect does work exceptionally well. I still can't get tracking to work reliably for birding.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Thank you, Rob. I am about to acquire an OM-1.
I'll be back here, that's for sure. BLUEY QUILTY MA, Australian Heritage Quanta
Awesome!
Danke!
Thank you!
Thank you, Rob. That was very helpful. It’s a shame though, that AF-C + tracking isn’t reliable. My Sony a7IV is just insanely great in that mode and it is so counter intuitive to use two different modes when doing the same thing with two different cameras.
Thanks. I hope they work it out by the next flagship camera. It really needs a complete overhaul.
Emilie Talpin has 150-400 and has a video on programming the lens buttons. Well worth watching. From memory I think she said that the four buttons can only be assigned one function, and that they are meant to give you easy access to that one function, whatever orientation you are holding the camera and with either hand you use. I did not take care to watch carefully as I am unlikely to want to use the lens buttons.
Yes, you remember correctly. She said 4 buttons can only be assigned one function.
Hi Rob, thanks for your work on the OM1 and other Olympus products. Something is weird when using manual mode with the histogram... I recently used it with the Live ND. As i was increasing the shutter time, the histogram increased too till one moment where he stood at 2/3 . No matter if i was at 30, 40, 50 seconds ! Did it happened to you ? PS : if i increase the shutter speed, the final pictures has the right histogram but the live one is unusable after about 30 sec. ( I don t have this problem on A Mode)
Hi Vladimir, I answered your question in a video here: czcams.com/video/NrwgO5OwhH4/video.html
Thank you, Rob. I appreciate you. Have a great weekend.
Thanks, Alan. You too!
I only recently got around to updating to FW v1.4 on two bodies and this is what I've seen regarding AF. Bird AI obviously tracks birds astonishingly well. Sometimes it picks up on other animals. Can't say if it's improved but it's very, very good. Animal AI seems to have improved. Even with a wide AF area box, it picks up cats, dogs, horses-equestrian riders etc. An associate who updated to v1.4 a while back uses Animal AI for fish during dives. It also picks up people a lot better as well. I have face detect set up on the One-touch white balance button and subject AI set up on the button below, the DOF Preview. Toggling eye/face detect off switches to subject AI. I still have to use a dial to change between the AI subjects. It seems to me the eye/face detect has improved, again with a wide AF area box. Never use CAF+TR as it's not very good and OM Systems clearly advised that they had not made any improvements to it for the OM-1.
Thanks again for sharing. I've not tested face/eye detect as I don't do much portrait stuff. Good to hear you found some improvement as I thought it was already very good.
I suggest you find the explanation of CAF Tr by Thomas Eisl on CZcams. You might be surprised. 😊. I look forward to trying his method when I get my Om1 and 150-400 back from the Olympus technicians. Being tested because there has been a big problem with auto focusing that baffles me and the people in the store where I bought the camera and lens. All the best.
@@cherrob48 I like his site and have watched that episode. Direct and very good technically however my views are based on empirical use (an eon of errors and learning from being Govt issued my first Nikon FM in 1979 followed by years of CPS and NPS advice). The TR isn't particular useful and Olympus/OM have published that there hasn't been any improvement (investment) in it. It will either be improved or I think more likely quietly removed and replaced by further AI improvements. The OM1 cameras [my goodness these computerised image tools can be too clever] have some strange foibles (as do other brands I am fortunate to have access to) but I must say that I am thoroughly impressed with the two bodies I'm running. The Olympus/OM weatherproof wireless flash system is excellent. I don't yet have a 150-400 but I think it's in the plan, even if I truly don't "need" it (I prefer a zoom over the 300/4 for locating the subject). Feedback regarding the 150 - 400 would be welcome.
@@lightdiversion4105 Sorry I only meant to reply just to Rob. i cant say much about the lens at this point, because I had trouble with the OM1 from the first day I took it out. Apart from focus problems, which I put down to being new to the extremely sophisticated system, i put the camera away in my climate control cabinet. I live in a very hot steamy environment. The camera was turned off of course and yet next morning I found the battery compartment and that side of the camera was very very hot! I took the battery out and went back to shop. But now the technicians are assessing the camera again, with the lens i bought to use with it for wildlife. We shall see, but I wont be surprised if the camera turns out to have a faulty motherboard!
Great advice; tnx! Your verdict means that outside of the specific subject detection modes, there‘s no way to reliably track subjects, such as any underwater animals. Correct?
Correct!
Hi Rob
Thank you for such an informative video. A couple of questions, when changing the colour and opacity of target area. In still images I now have a green bounding box / on the outer edge of the LV screen as if all AF targets is selected this is visible even in single AF point is selected . I cant find anything in the manual apart from a mention of the red frame in video mode. Also my center target square has now turned into a circle that remains in the centre of the screen regardless of where I position the AF target frame.
Do you know if this is just a indication that i have changed settings from factory preset?
I'd also like to say thank you for the tip of changing the shutter priority preset. Now my images are much sharper for it.
Thank you
Hi. The frame lines are always there. Before you changed it to green, it was a dark grey color that is hard to see otherwise, but it is still there. As for the Center Target, that circle is indicating you're in a spot metering or center-weighted metering mode. It should go away if you change your light metering to DSP. Let me know if that worked.
Thank you, that makes perfect sense now I know what I am looking at.
Thank you Rob...as usual you answer some questions before I know enough to ask them. I am a proud new owner of an OM1 and confused. Comparison...when shooting birds. with my E-M5 III. in silent high..mostly stationary birds...as the light slowly goes away and hand holding with a 300 f4 lens I can keep reducing the shutter speed and rely on the IS to save some photos. Well in SH2 mode on the OM1 that is not possible because of slow shutter limit 320 fps.
First what is "Silent sequential" ? I see other photographers online referring to it and is it the same as SH1?
What goes away in the SH1 setting when leaving the SH2 mode?
What settings would be best to get sharpest bird photos hand held and allow reduced shutter speeds.
You have helped me so many times with MFT I wish I had a 150-400 lens to pass on to you!!!
Thank you
Joe McGrath
Hi, Joe. Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I made a video to try and answer your question here: czcams.com/video/mGdry1M0X9I/video.html
Rob, Thank you for going over the tracking. One more thing that is confusing is auto IS. Why would you use auto? Would on just be better?
Hi Mike, I covered IBIS in this episode here: czcams.com/video/mkH75ojbzeE/video.html
I understand the subject tracking comments made in this video and the recommendation to use a bigger focus point area along with subject tracking. Is that the same advice when the subject is a person's face? Should the small one point focus area be used only when you're not trying to track something?
Hi Robert, I answered your question in this video: czcams.com/video/uNsNmYGtaVk/video.html
Great tutorial! Is there somewhere a stepwise tutorial available on how to connect the Ronin RS3 to the OM-1 by using the DJI RONIN-SC PART 16 RSS control cable for FUJIFILM to record 4K videos? As a newby with both OM-1 (love it!) and RS3 this topic appears to be a too steep learning curve for me. Currently, this connect only allow taking pictures but not start/stop video, whatever format. All suggestions are appreciated!
Sorry, but I don't own the DJI Ronin to do any kind of tutorial. I think you emailed me last week about this? Sorry I didn't get back to you. Ben over at the Narrowband Channel has used his for photography, but I guess not for video which is why he probably referred you to me. I had talked with him about buying one but I never did. Your best bet for help on this topic would be to go to the DJI forums.
@@RobTrek : Found the solution in your tutorial czcams.com/video/TIIXLn86rU0/video.html (thanks to the narrowband channel) .
Using the Fujifilm cable combined with this setting: settings tab\button settings\ video shutting: rec > will start stop video on 4K if video is selected on the OM1 selection weel and taking pictures if a camera option is selected. Already absolute fun to play around with the gimballed OM1 :) Will try the other tweaks in your tutorial later. Meanwhile you can enjoy a cup of coffee 😀.
I prefer to shoot in manual with auto iso. However when adding a flash auto iso does not work. Any thoughts?
Hi Kent, I answered your question in a video here: czcams.com/video/NrwgO5OwhH4/video.html
Peter Francis
I have what appears to be a levelling indicator which has suddenly added itself to the viewfinder and surrounds the centre point focus when I half press the shutter button. It dose not appear when I use back button focus. How do I turn it off?
Hi, Peter. I answered your question in this video: czcams.com/video/uNsNmYGtaVk/video.html
Yes, I really think that the only thing that holds OM-1 back is the subject tracking for human. It is brilliant for birds and wildlife with the AI detection but the tracking for human is just unreliable and I basically need to use it like a traditional DSLR with zoning focusing where it works great but you switch to mirrorless for those tracking features. I guess the primary focus for OMDS is wildlife now so they work on that aspect first. Hopefully they will address the human face detection very soon.
I've found Subject Detection for birds to be hit and miss. Mostly miss.
@ryan I hope so too. Unlike @formermpc, I found the bird detect amazing.
@@RobTrek I have been shooting the OM-1 for wildlife for a year including a n important birding trip last month in China. It had no problems with the bird af. It is absolutely amazing. Just hope the caf with tracking can be much improved in the very near future.
Rob, it seems to me that if OM Systems recommends against C-AF + tracking, they would be wise to either fix it, or remove it from the camera software in the next firmware upgrade.
Proof again this camera was not ready for release. We all suffer.
@Alan, It's hard to believe they haven't made a substantial improvement by now. Hopefully a firmware can be made to update the OM1 before the next camera release. At the very least, the next model better fix this.
Hello Rob. I always appreciate your videos. However, I suggest you look at an explanation of OM1 CAF+Tr by Thomas Eisl. He posted a clear explanation 4 weeks ago that gives some details I think you would find interesting and I would be interested to hear what you think as his conclusion is quite different. 😊
I saw his video. I applaud Thomas and appreciate his contributions. However, he was tracking a slow moving object that is distinctly different from the background which is easy. You really don't even need tracking for such a slow target, just follow it by hand. What I'm addressing is tracking fast moving targets that sometimes move in and out of frame that are difficult to separate against a busy background.
@@RobTrek Thank you for that clarification. I am so itching to have my OM1 back from technicians. It has played up from day one. Frustrating having also bought the 150-400 lens! With the camera malfunctioning I have not had an opportunity to get the benefit of the lens or camera's great features. It takes days by road for the despatch from my town to Sydney then the same to come back after they sort out the problem. 😢
@@cherrob48 I hope you get everything sorted out. You have the dream setup!
@@RobTrek it certainly is, or will be soon. 🙂
regarding the tracking, it is priceless to watch various OM ambassadors from when om-1 came out claiming two things a) how they are getting amazing results using CF+tr for birds b) how they are getting 2 stops of noise improvement. both of which is nonsense based on confusion and/or marketing, however these scumbags successfully managed to show their true face. I love it looking back at those videos.
Agreed. We were sold a bill of goods by the OM-1 hypsters.
That was a little harsh, but understandable. I wish all companies were a lot more transparent in their marketing. At the same time, I think some features are underrated and not given enough press. So call me a glass half full kinda guy.
The current subject detection for the OM-1 is so good, I wonder why they don’t just put human as one of the subject detection options the same way they make birds and other mammals and objects. That way they can just rely on AI subjects detection all the way and not having to work on the individual face and eye detection 😅
Yeah, I never understood why face detect is in a separate menu from AI Detect. That way we just have one place for all the different AF detect modes.
@@RobTrek this is why I sold mine last week. Why do they ignore this? There are almost 8 billions people on earth and they ignore any AI detect for people. Makes no sense, I asked them and my reply was " use the eye/face detect" Still have my E-M1 mark III for live comp and some of its features. But moved on after 18 years with Olympus.
Thanks for answering these questions, Rob. You always demonstrate such care and patience. Regarding the buttons on the 150-400, Emilie Talpin has just put up a video coverig this particular topic: czcams.com/video/5_1azqR-AAI/video.html (And like you, if anyone wanted to donate a 150-400 to me I wouldn't knock it back either. They're dear as poison here in Australia!)
I don't understand why other manufacturers can implement an effective tracking mode while OMD, which is supposed to be the computational king, doesn't seem to be able to pull it off. I personally don't need it, but it really hurts their brand. It was the same with the EM cameras. Everybody said, don't bother with it, it doesn't work. Isn't this a software issue? Do they need better programers? I understand that the subject tracking makes up for this to some degree, but it leaves the door open for the four-thirds haters to dump on the brand. I hope they are working on a firmware update to address this. I kind of expected 1.3 to address it, but evidently it didn't. 1.3 claimed to "Improve performance of C-AF when shooting still images" but nothing about tracking specifically. Did you see any improvement in tracking with 1.3?
I didn't do much in c-af on 1.3, as I use the OM-1 mostly for architectural. I took it out last week on 1.4 for some birding and it c-af with subject detect is great. Tracking C-AF+TR is still useless.
Who knows why Olympus/OMDS keep this unusable C-AF+tracking for so many years
It's odd it's still this bad after all these years.
Tracking came about from video cams. In hybrid cameras like this with face detect a person can move across the frame in a video and the camera can track with that person and with proper sensitivity settings it won’t jump to another subject. It’s for slower moving subject where the camera is stationary and subject moving. It’s old tech bot needed for videographer.
@@JeffreyMcPheeters I don’t care what tech is, OM C-AF+tracking is not reliable at all compare to other brands. It is really dispointed.
@@mastan7207 that’s likely. I wish they put more resources into the video capture system. I mostly do action work so I don’t need tracking. CAF works well for me and in slow moving subjects I can pan and pull focus from experience. But I do wish the video tracking worked better and also with subject detection.
Müll-Kamera!
Okay.
Thanks!
Thank you!