How fast can an overpowered model railway drive? 88 mph?
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2019
- I wish all my viewers HAPPY HOLIDAYS! Stay creative and I will see you next time!
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In this small christmas special video I will be having a look at a common electric model railway and find a way to increase its speed. Afterwards I will calculate the maximum speed theoretically and also measure it practically. Let's get started!
Music:
2011 Lookalike by Bartlebeats
Killing Time, Kevin MacLeod
(incompetech.com) - Věda a technologie
Someone: Please repair it
GreatScott: How to crank up the speed
Sounds like me :-)
LOL
@@greatscottlab don't forget to raise the efficiency too... I heard Germans love to do things efficiently
Think briefly about his roomba or his e-scooter ... 😂
Cmon, it's like no one here unlocked power limits and benchmarked processors from laptops that come by to be fixed
instead of laying the track flat, put it in a vertical loop. with a bit of supprt structure, I'm sure you could get that train up to 88mph... :D (or put a really impressive hole in your wall...)
😂
I would say most likely a hole in the wall
In "Back to the future" the problem is not getting to 88mph on a curved track - its about accelerating in a straight line. Lay a long flat track and see if you can get it to 88mph on that long flat track. In case the flux capacitor doesn't work, double the length of the track :)
@@BenMitro Jet engine
@@semindemedia ..a tiny one!
You did achieve 88 smph! (scale mph) The box showed HO scale which is 1:87 scale. The factory top train speed actually scales correctly. (0.9 mph to 78 mph)(1.4 km/h to 121 km/h) At real scale, you managed to achieve 217.5 mph (or smph)! (348 km/h) Ummm... That being said, I think you are in bullet train territory!
I never thought about it that way.....that is awesome! :-) Thanks for letting me know.
@@greatscottlab i think you should pin this comment to the top
That would be a very fast tank engine. :D
And I thought I was the only one who thought this. Lol.
Thomas the Time-Traveling Tank Engine
What if you tilt the curves inwards? You would need flexible tracks for that, but that would be awesome...
Yes, we need to know the maximum possible speed!
I have flexible tracks for that set
The motor can handle the power/heat??
piyush nagawat replace with brushless 1800kV motor
@@bruhdabones it wont fulfill my requirement.... I would need more...
I tried this when i was a kid.... As a result i ended up with a broken train with burned motor..😭
Did this with a 9v and a scalextric, worked fine some how, but you had to catch it to stop the bloody thing
I tried it with those small electric cars, also burned motor lol
I have a collection of burnt DC motors
Why not attach a resistor in series to control max current? This may prevent the motor from burning.
@@ixape i did that as a "kid"..... So no more burning motors...
Asking the important questions
Like "How can I play with this train, and make it look like working"?
Friend comes on: Can ou repair my Loko?
He: Yes
Finds out that it still works: Mmmmmm, how fast can it go... And fries the controller while shooting the Loko from the track...
He gives it back: Sorry I tried my best, it was a typical Physics Problem.... Me: LMAO
Hey u can use enter to make
This
@@milanhlavacek6730 perhaps he's just hurried or perhaps some sort of voice recognition is being used and in a hurry.
Try banking corners. That should help get a faster speed without flying off
FiA Stewards could just use an extra weight on one side probably for this track
You could but then on the straights you tip over because of the weights. You could use weights, just make the whole circuit a circle
@@Clockpie5436 Active stabilizers :D As it gets to a turn you shift the weight. A screw with a weight on it connected to a motor should work. so that as the screw turns the weight is moved closer to either side of the screw. Then add an accelerometer or gyro sensor. Mount the screw mechanism sideways and program it so that it tries to counter the trains tilt. Another way to do it would be a servo with a weighted swing arm. As the train tilts, swing the arm to the opposite direction.
5:25 if you take force of friction= centrifugal force then it should work who else agrees
Not even close in real world speed, But you forgot to calculate *scale* speed.. I bet it was going 150mph or better.
This is H0 gauge, so the scale is 1:87
H0 is 1/87th from reality, thus 2.5mph would equal to ~220mph. Quite good for electric steam locomotive, lol.
@@e1woqf 87 x 2.5 mph or whatever the speed was he said. So essentially it went past 88 and came back from next week to give us this video. See ya in two years.
I don't think he made the point clearly enough. If I make a 1/10 scale model of something involving light am I safe in saying that the photons are travelling at "scale speed"? Ten times or one tenth of c? Nah. Similar problems in scaling fluid dynamics. Only small bumble bees can fly, not big ones, because the aerodynamics don't scale.
@@raykent3211 whatever
4:36 The cakeulator is a lie.
Yeah
Well, the problem here is pretty obvious -- you need 1.21 gigawatts of power in order to achieve 88 miles per hour. Besides, I'm not seeing a flux capacitor.
Whoever asked you to fix this is probably not too happy about this video 🤣💔
Maybe.....
Don't know whether to give you a thumb's up or down, but I will give you a :D@@greatscottlab
I was hoping you would explain the circuit "the encoder thing" :-\
I even think this loc supports multiple trains on 1 circuit. the transformer is dumber tho, but some more pricy transformers can controll multiple trains on the same track independently of eachother
@@CodeAsm It´s called märklin digital and you can choose between a simple IR remote control system (4 trains delta system) or the more advanced mobile station or even central station or even a pc controlled system.
They can adress over 200 locomotives at the same time but the IR system is really fun if you want to play together since you can share another IR remote control.
A second mobile station is also possible but very expensive.
Usually nowadays you get this IR system in your startup-box
@@MultiWirth Well, don't just focus just on Märklin Systems as there are many more ways to control your trains. I personally used a combination of Märklin Mobile Stations with ESU decoders and a ESU ECoS.
@@tim3609 i just don't have experience with anything else since i never used other systems so i can't tell anything about it.
czcams.com/video/NSE4CGsbHkc/video.html
4:14 [EUROBEAT INTENSIFIES]
Nono, not any eurobeat, this one is Rage your dream by M.O.V.E.
The "motor controller" actually is a digital decoder. (Motorola system) the address can be set with the DIP switch. All 0 means analog Märklin system (50Hz 0-16V, 24V to reverse, which was done with a latching relay and a field coil on older analog only locos
but why on earth does it have switches?
Those new and simplified models usually have a programmable decoder which autodetects AC/DC-digital mode.
You only had to set "0" on old models with delta or 80 adress digital decoders to run them on AC.
@@MultiWirth I don't know how old this one is. Can't be too old, the older ones had the loud 3 pole AC motor in them, this one already has a DC motor.
Maybe they reverted to DIP switches on simple models because if you would upgrade to Delta or a simple digital system, you cannot easily reprogram it. Reprogramming usually requires a rather expensive central station. (Like the Märklin central station or the ESU units, or PC software.)
When I was a teenager and only had the cheap Delta 4f I had to go to a shop to get the addresses reprogrammed at those newer decoders.
@@TheRailroad99 You can reprogramm any märklin digital locomotive fine with the IR control system (also often included in startup´s) but can´t on the very old delta system but it´s kinda useless to get one of these.
So i don´t get the point why they brought back dip switches.
I also have the old locomotives with their AC motors and the good thing about them they´re much faster and it´s sound is just beautiful mechanical ;)
The newer models are boring but good if they have any sound features
Sounds Marklin digital system very complicated. DCC is much easier, in my opinion.
@@AdrianBan04 not really, they are both very similar in complexity.
Thanks for a delightful video. And Happy Holidays to you and all your viewers.
Thanks for another year full of awesome projects!
Can’t wait for the upcoming episodes of 2020 :)
so cool my grandfather always played with me on his and I always went full speed which really triggered him xD
With the pass of time, you only get better and better, every new video i see, makes me laugh, while learning, and keeps me watching nonstop.
Thank you for all your Greatwork! Keep doing those nice videos
Thanks for the feedback ;-)
It might be interesting to build a bit more complicated speed controller that could drop the speed before the corners
I am a big fan of Marklin and your channel too. So two in one! Thanks for this Scott! You rules!!
Make a cleaning robot using lidar and other sensors.
Happy holidays
Yes, and then send it to William Osman, he needs a replacement Roomba...
@@kurtlindner Do not send Roombas to William... he has a restraining order regarding them.
Finally a Back to the Future reference by Great Scott!
"Please excuse the crudity of this model. I didn't have time to build it to scale or paint it." :)
Awesome and Classic statement all in one... ] :- ()
Don't worry doc
That's heavy
4:35, using a cake u lator.
Great video, Scott! And we got some physics, too! Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Thank You, happy holidays!
This is great! Thank you it's insightful and fun!
Can you imagine writing a whole letter like this? Going back and forth to intensify the letters? It will take a whole day just to write one paragraph.
Happy holidays to you too! Looking forward to new videos!
Of course it doesn't reach 88 mph. It needs 1.21 gigawatts of energy! Haven't you some plutonium in your workshop?
Yes of course!
300 watts would be enough
DHL had a problem delivering it.......
"The main combustion engine runs on ordinary gasoline, it always has!" "The time circuits need a little more kick" Plutonium is to generate the 1.21 "Jigawatts" of electricity. Sorry technicality, I'll see myself out now. Lol
@@Gloworm17 you are right! But the joke it doesn't fit in this way
A very good job and detailed information!!!
I love your channel.
It saves me money on experiments.
Very nice. Have a great Christmas and New Year!!!
been about 6 years since i last watched this channel, happy to see the same intro and icon ❤️
Happy New Year!! With many achievements!
Keep up the good work sir!
It might not be able to take you back to the furture but it defently takes me back to my childhood playing with my train!
I discovered your channel, and I'm a great fan.
Two of my favorite things at the same place, great!
Happy Holidays Mr. Scott!! 🎊🎉
The outer rail in the curve must be elevated - as on real world railways.
BTW: it makes no sense making a model railway speed around at insane speed, as this is far from a realistic scenery ... 😄
The real challenge is actually somewhat in the opposite: making it run very smooth at slow pace to make it look realistic.
The solution is to have an onboard locomotive power reservoir, that smoothes the drive, overcoming the small connection interrupts at switches and rail joints.
Then in turn make the locomotive motor controller start up and slow down in a realistic way.
This is what model railway fans are paying big money for 😛
Yeah, that's what we're up to. :}
It's really cool, when you can shunt (switch) realistically.
That would make a fun video.
This is great Scott's Christmas celebration video... :)
wow, I definitely gonna steal your info to upgrade my train set. 😊 thanks for sharing a very detail and informative video
If you want to go really fast, I would recommend a Carrera track rather than a model railway. :D
The equation is quite incorrect. You need to use the coefficient of friction when calculating the max centripetal force. GreatScott! set the coefficient to 1 which in reality should be something more than 1. Doing this would result in a lower theoretical speed which would be much closer to the one he achieved.
Not really. The train's wheels are not flat. They have a ridge on the inside edge that holds them on the track and allows them to go around corners. So you would have to take into account the depth of that ridge. You would also have to take into account the height of the center of gravity of the train. Obviously, not a simple problem and I do not know the solution.
@@jimbert50 you're right. I was trying to simplify it.
Lol. Friction is just tiny ridges too. Just up the friction coefficient for bigger ridges?
Its Held in the Tracks by the normal force in the rails. Maximum Speed squared = 0.5*r*g*l/h, where h ist the vertikal Position of the Center of Gravity and l ist the Wirth of the Tracks.
@@pratikkunkolienkar1561 Do that and it will help a little, but then the CG will become the dominant factor. Actually I think the CG is the main factor anyway. Notice how the train leaves the track. It does not slide off due to not enough friction. It can't really slide off because of the wheel ridges. It actually tips over, leading me to think that CG is the main factor. LK is right - the width of the tracks is also a major factor.
@@jimbert50 agreed. The Reliant Robin got 3-wheeler cars a bad name by falling over on bends. Sadly, people blame that on it having 3 wheels when the culprit is a stupidly high CG. I had a Berkeley T60 which had the better geometry of two front one rear and a CG about 20 cm above the ground. That won't tip, it'll slide when the tyres lose grip, as 4 wheeler cars usually do, unless they have a high CG. So the essential issue here is CG. Add some lead sheet to the bottom of the loco, just clear of the sleepers and it'll go round a bend faster.
Thank you for making this video
Happy holidays to you too
Nice fun video Friend! Thank you for sharing it with us' and Merry Christmas!🎄🎁😎JP
Nice Christmas tryout !! Merry Christmas 🎄
I would LOVE to see you do a video on the electrical engineering of modern digital model railroad control. There's a standardized system called DCC and it's really quite fascinating to me how it is able to send power and data over the same two rails. Great video!
I would like to see that, too!
That's a really great video to watch. Also i can just imagine how it would be to see this little train running at insane speeds in front of some kids watching it, until it go away from the rails 😂
Nono there must be some magic powers, like week ago I got back to model railroads and you make this video. Please do a video where you DIY some DCC decoder.
Actullay I think the physics part is a bit wrong.........
we actually have to equate the maximum normal that the sides of the track can provide to the centripetal force
So calculate the maximum normal provided but the side of the track before which the train jumps of it and equate it to mv^2/r
@@arnecl9566 I wonder if we should be using gravity at all, as this problem isn't due to gravitational forces being overcome, but instead the forces of friction. I feel like the equation used was a vast simplification that doesn't represent the system properly
@@arnecl9566 Correct
@@arnecl9566 Nice answer
@@arnecl9566 It then becomes an optimization problem of keeping the two forces in balance. Right my bad!
Arne Cl the force (F_r) due to right rail which is always perpendicular to to the trains wheel ....... If we r trying to balance torque about the centre of mass then we have to assume that that normal force (F_n= mg) is acting on the right wheels upward ............so the equation will be
F_n * w/2= F_r * h where w is width and h is height from centre of mass ..... so F_r = mg w/2h = mv^2 /r where r is radius of track
V^2=g w r/2h
This is what u did right
So at the end what he did was wrong right ?
Merry Christmas all, and to you greatscott! also..
Well nice video as always
Cool! Happy holidays
hi ... your videos always best ....and clear explanation .... high level explanation nice
you should explain more about how the force vector pass over the load point (the outer wheel) which causes the train to tip over
Great work.
So cool this train model, wish I had one as a kid... for sure I would try the same thing as you but would be frustrate in why the train goes off flying at curves. And years after this I would learn by working in real railways that the model track should have some inclined curve so you could simulate a superelevation and achieve higher speeds at curves. Well, off to search, buy and build a model for myself now! :))
Merry Christmas Scott :)
I understand that this is the only track you have however testing how fast you can go without derailing in the corners doesn't really determine the maximum speed of the locomotive. To me, the maximum speed of the locomotive would be determined by how much power the motor can handle under load without burning out. Thanks anyway for the video though, I enjoyed watching you set it all up.
That's a good speed aproximación .. You are so cool !
Merry christmas Scott! I remember commenting the same last christmas :D
Thanks for sticking around :-)
Thanks for the info
You could try adding some magnets at the bottom of the locomotive to increase the force that attaches it to the rails. This method is commonly used in slot cars. Anyway, great video as always!
i know it's too late, but Merry Christmas and a happy new year with a lot of achievements
inspirational experiments! Thanks
thank u .. Good Work
Great job
Hey... One question. How did you manage to show battery level on the camera ring of the s10? I tried many apps but none of them worked and I don't want to root the phone
A old train set that my grandparents have changes the train's direction by pushing a higher than usual voltage through the system.
This makes some sort of solenoid trigger in the model train, reversing the direction, or making the train boost very fast if it doesn't trigger.
This is apparent by the model lights flashing brightly.
Yes, that was the old, mechanical way to switch direction. These trains also had AC motors.
I'm a fan of DC motors with digital controllers.
Very clever guy. Wide range of knowledge.
happy holidays!! what you need is it to slow down at the turns.
Good project, i like it
I remember the old Marklin system, which used the same control voltage trickery, but instead of electronics inside the cab it had a relay that would pull in at 20VAC, which operated a reversing switch that flipped the motor voltage, derived from the supply using a bridge rectifier, so it would run in the opposite direction. During the time you were driving the relay the contacts would be floating in mid position, so the motor would not run, an elegant solution. Power supply was also simple, a mains transformer giving a 12VAC output at a few amps for the drive, and another winding of 12VAC again, switched by a microswitch when you turned the control back past zero. No variac speed control, just a great big wirewound pot across the 12VAC output, giving the variable output, and meaning the case ran a little warm.
Cleaned a lot of track, as it would of course, being here in the tropics and near the ocean, rust, seemingly instantly after cleaning, unless you were actively running the train on it.
Damn! It made me go back to my childhood! 😃
Wait! Does that means the time travel worked either way? 🤔
Great Scott overpowering things
Photonicinduction: Wants to know your location
This is a great project. Perhaps consider increase the angle of the circular tracks about the center of the semi circle relative to the flat surface. That should increase the component of centrifugal force allowing for higher velocity.
I used to love model trains as a kid and me and my dad built 2 set ups. One was in a run down shed we got with our old house and I thought it was the coolest thing ever! I tried adding stuff to it every day and making models and getting them and I just kept adding stuff to it and even tried doing mods to them. I was really young tho so it didn’t look super great but I thought it was amazing. Eventually we moved it on an artists table and it was a lot less complex and smaller but I still loved it. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. For a while I had stopped playing with them and my parents ended up selling it. If I could I’d totally make a small one and design models and things. Rn my main hobby is electronics and engineering and art. I’ve been into art ever since I was younger and it was the one talent I had that I excelled at the most. I won every talent show I entered and was considered one of the best artists in all my schools. I don’t mean that to be bragging but I do consider it one of my greatest achievements. But I’ve recently stopped drawing for a period of time. I’m still doodling but not as often. I picked up so many hobbies through the years and never stuck to one because I wasn’t as interested in them as I thought I was 😂 but I would do it all over again. This video just gave me a nostalgia trip 😂
For real tho one of the reasons I’ve picked up electronics and engineering as a hobby is because of this guy, Ben Heck, the element 14 group, other people’s game console mods, g man, Nicolas Tesla, Louise Le Prince, and Leonardo DaVinci. I consider these people to be some of the most creative, smart, and inspiring people to me. My girlfriend also inspires me to get up and to keep trying even when it’s tough.
You should compare the speed to the scale speed.
Yep, I should have done that.
~220mph or ~350kph.
@@greatscottlab so where did the figure 88 come from? Maybe I missed something. The actual speeds are much lower. Scale speed is a fictional concept not supported by physics.
@@raykent3211 88mph is a reference to "Back to the Future"-trilogy.
@@sleeptyper oh, thanks, I'm very old and more in tune with plants than movies. So bad that I read GSOH as god saves ornate hedges. Yeh, that out of touch.
I was hoping for glowing rails and burnt contacts. damn you, gravity!
I Love How U ExPlain
This is heavy, doc!
Love you awsome vedio
4:15 Your calculation for how fast the train can go around the curve is a bit off. You can’t just set Fc equal to Fg and solve for the V, you have to use the torque of those forces about a pivot point, in this case the pivot is where the right wheel meets the track. To find the speed where the torque due to gravity and the torque due to the centrifugal force are equal. So you set
[Fg*(horizontal distance of the center of mass from the bottom of the right wheel AKA half of the distance between the wheels)]
equal to
[Fc*(vertical distance from the center of mass to the bottom of the right wheel AKA the height of the center of mass)]
And then solve for V in Fc.
I was looking for someone to point this out. Surprising how almost no one else in the comments saw this mistake
I'm a little bit envy for your Marklin modelbau :D
Your physics is too good 🥳
GreatScott: *cranks up modelrailway to ridiculous speedlevels - for Christmas.
Also GreatScott: *quickly advances to the absolute favourite uncle of every little boy the whole family universe houses 😂 😂 😂
GREAT SCOTT!!! He's overclocking trains now!
I hooked a stomper (1.5v) up to a tyco model rail road supply (variable to 18v, I think) It zipped really fast back and forth the length of the power cable really fast a couple of times before it burnt out.
Now I will never trust you to repair my childhood toys... You're getting funny ideas! :))
Wow, it's a 3 rail system. I didn't even know that was still a thing!
My old train set only has the two rails, and they supply the power. My father's old set from his childhood has a 3rd rail in the middle, and a central pickup rather like this one.
Needless to say, there's no chips inside my father's old set!
@@arnecl9566 Märklin just has 3 rail trains. By now they also have DC motors and their digital decoders also support the DCC protocol. But they sell 2 rail trains and tracks under the brand Trix.
Superelevation mate, try it.
That's partially how high speed trains deal with curves.
Happy Holidays!
If that train could go up to 88mph, I think it will be appropriated to say.. "Great Scott!!!!!"
So, just about electromagnetics, in general, does the intensity of the electromagnetic field depend on voltage, while the size of the magnetic field rely on average; or is it the other way around?
As someone mentioned, you could try banking the tracks to go faster; but, I could see how that might be a more difficult modification to make on somebody else's train track.
Another approach; however, could be to bias the locomotive to allow it to go faster. Two approaches I thought of were 1) to bank the locomotive or 2) to change the CG of the locomotive. Banking the locomotive might be easy or hard depending on how the locomotive attaches to the wheel; and, it might not be as visually appealing. Changing the CG to move it lower and inward might be easier since the engine is likely pretty light.
I have such a model train but there is a heater for smoke effect which is this thin wire heater, which is broken
Any idea for replacements
NiChr wire buy where you buy vaper parts.
you will probably need to disassemble the locomotive, which is usually pretty easy as you need to oil the train from time to time.I think this system is just a heater that creates smoke
wire from old soldering iron (not gun)
You can use nichrome wire or get a wire from heating elements,or you can use coils from vape
yea, if you bump the voltage up to 150v you will start getting real smoke pouring out the model train :D :D
Finnaly a model train video 😃😃😃😃
I used to have a 4' x 6' table 120 x 180 cm covered in ho scale track and so on I decided to go to railkarts instead but I had a few trains fly across the room at full speed
I was hoping you will tilt the tracks slightly when the track is turning, like Bullet trains here in Japan, to counter the centrifugal force and achieve even higher speed without falling off the track. I'm pretty sure it would look cool. Also you can probably upgrade the motor to a Tamiya Hyper Dash 130 or something.