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Kris Jenner on Kim's Birth Control

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  • čas přidán 21. 06. 2012
  • The mother of all Kardashians was here, and told Bethenny Frankel about the story behind Kim starting birth control at age 15.
    "bethenny," the brand-new talk show starring Bethenny Frankel - businesswoman, bestselling author, and self-described "Queen of Too Much Information" - will debut nationwide September 9th!
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Komentáře • 253

  • @lovedichoreo1529
    @lovedichoreo1529 Před 8 lety +110

    She made a lot of great points, allowing a trusted gynecologist to discuss all of the options for birth control and the risks involved with your children is really important

  • @kemery22222
    @kemery22222 Před 10 lety +83

    Also the people saying "I don't understand how she could be okay with her 15 year old having sex" obviously do not listen very well. She clearly said at about 1:33 she tried to talk her out of it. You people are so blinded by your hatred of this family that you hear what you want to hear and not what is actually being said.

  • @Unknownuser15160
    @Unknownuser15160 Před 10 lety +184

    you can say about kris what you want but she's a freaking good mom!

    • @meagainsttheworldyup
      @meagainsttheworldyup Před 9 lety +6

      Kris Jenner reminds me of my mom. My mom would educate me about the consequences and what I should do to protect myself. In middle school she kept asking me if I need condoms or birth control. I told her "I'm going to lose my virginity in marriage" but that wasn't true. In high school in eleventh grade is when I lost my virginity. Of course I was educated and I did my own additional research online. I already knew I had to get on birth control and use a condom. My mom was really cool and she might sound a bit crazy but she treated me as if it was my own decision. If I decide to do drugs then fine but look at the consequences. I had to think for myself.

    • @cookieinpalmbeach
      @cookieinpalmbeach Před 7 lety +1

      unknownuser yes she is a great mom

    • @ranalla
      @ranalla Před 7 lety

      Kris Jenner

    • @BluntSpeaker
      @BluntSpeaker Před 5 lety

      I mean she’s close

  • @Mf7d89
    @Mf7d89 Před 10 lety +98

    I agree with what she did, teens WILL have sex and remembering when i was in school a few years ago, teens can be extremely irresponsible & ignorant. So at least Kim had all the proper sexual information from a doctor as well as birth control.

  • @ourhomeiscool
    @ourhomeiscool Před 7 lety +23

    "I'm not a regular mom. I'm a cool mom!"

  • @SkiRacerMinnesota
    @SkiRacerMinnesota Před 10 lety +118

    I went on birth control at 15 also. Helped to regular my period and anyways, better safe than pregnant.

    • @rulaalmansour4629
      @rulaalmansour4629 Před 8 lety +2

      +Tavo Dupré you need to relax her love life has nothing to do with you

    • @alishajane7908
      @alishajane7908 Před 7 lety

      Tavo Dupré ur just pissed cuz u have never even had a man's attention longer than " would you you like fries with that" we all know ur the ugly friend.. accept it we can't all be beautiful..I'm sure ur mad cuz she lost her vcard at 15 like myself and many of my friends and your still a virgin that's probably into anime and all that bs..so y don't u lay off those of us that lost our virginity at a young age have all regretted it at one point but just bc u like sex doesn't make you a whore..and it's called keegals.. squeeze tight and let loose:)

  • @chertastic723
    @chertastic723 Před 12 lety +11

    this is a mom who actually took a logical way of dealling with the situation . i actually give her credit alot of credit because she was being a real parent there!

  • @lavianahampton4641
    @lavianahampton4641 Před 10 lety +121

    Good choice kris . I respect that

  • @caleighpatrick4541
    @caleighpatrick4541 Před 8 lety +31

    All of these poor parents are being put on blast for giving their daughters birth control at a young age, A: it's their daughters choice and B: birth control is used for more than just pregnancy

    • @Bloombaby99
      @Bloombaby99 Před 4 lety

      Exactly. I'm not sexually active but birth control helps with the menstrual cycle.

  • @thelmadavidson7259
    @thelmadavidson7259 Před 10 lety +55

    at the end of the day, i think she made a great choice, i had sex when i was 15 years old, and i barely felt comfortable enough to come to my mother and say i wanted to go on date, so its great kim felt comfortable enough to come to her mother, its great they had that relationship....like she said she did all types of hooping and hollaring about what was right and what was wrong, but at the end of the day she knew her child would what she wanted to do....i feel like thats better than, kim coming home to her saying shes pregnant at 15....

  • @kemery22222
    @kemery22222 Před 10 lety +16

    She did the right thing

  • @YoursTrulyTass
    @YoursTrulyTass Před 6 lety +5

    Kris is actually a really good mother

  • @dreamergirlbaby
    @dreamergirlbaby Před 8 lety +12

    I'm only 19 and when I have kids I want a girl first. I know in my teen years I did sexual things behind my moms back and I was very sneaky. I told my mom I wanted to be on birth control and she was like 😐 oh god lol. I just know when I have a daughter I am going to make sure she's educated on sex and her body and everything. I am going to make sure when she tells me she wants to be on birth control I am going to make sure she's on it.

    • @alishajane7908
      @alishajane7908 Před 7 lety +2

      dreamergirlbaby u just cursed urself..ur gonna have a boy first..never say out loud what you want just sat IDC as long as it's healthy

  • @mommacapra3367
    @mommacapra3367 Před 8 lety +2

    My mom put me on birth control at 16.. I was still a Virginia though. It did help make my periods lighter, but having the physical exam as a virgin was terrifying! Kris is a great mom! She's very loving, caring, supportive and bonded to her kids. She would do anything for her kids.

  • @BlueDreamLights
    @BlueDreamLights Před 12 lety +4

    Personally, I waited until I was with the man I was going to marry (engaged). I wanted to wait until the day we were married, but we got carried away one night. He is my one and only, and we've been married 3 years now. It's hard for me to know that he has slept with others before me. So not only girls, but GUYS should try and wait as well. I will educate my daughter about waiting. My parents were always open, and that made all the difference. I am happy for their protection.

  • @rehana97
    @rehana97 Před 8 lety +5

    She didn't answer if Kylie was on it back then lol

  • @RearviewWisdom
    @RearviewWisdom Před 11 lety +2

    finally somebody that speaks the uncommon language of SENSE !

  • @noiui
    @noiui Před 7 lety +5

    Is anything left sacred or left unsaid about ones very personal life???

  • @freshangel1
    @freshangel1 Před 10 lety +4

    That is in fact a good approach, it's better than denial

  • @squeegybeckinhyme
    @squeegybeckinhyme Před 11 lety +2

    This is exactly what I plan on doing with my daughter and her father agrees because when I was a teen my mother wouldn't give me birth control and told me to wait and I ended up pregnant at a young age. Of course I'll tell my daughter to respect herself and wait until she's ready, but better to be safe. You can tell someone to drive safely, but you still need to wear a seatbelt.

  • @DaxShaw
    @DaxShaw Před 8 lety +14

    Honestly, do people think telling her kids no would have stopped them from having sex? If that was the case, why are there so many teen pregnancies? Telling them to wait is nice, but it's smart to accept the inevitable, do what you can to educate and prevent them from getting pregnant.

  • @katty81690
    @katty81690 Před 12 lety +1

    because it's better to be safe than sorry. and anyway, people don't just used birth control solely to prevent pregnancy. there are many other reasons such as acne, heavy periods, PMDD control, etc. and frankly, it's none of your damn business what other people do with their children.

  • @nadjamaus1
    @nadjamaus1 Před 12 lety +1

    kendals on birthcontrol for "tummy aches"

  • @Matzzzi
    @Matzzzi Před 11 lety +1

    She is right on everything. I don't believe sex is for marriage, although I respect it of course. Kids need to be educated more, that's it.

  • @Benyikoko
    @Benyikoko Před 2 lety +1

    Thats great advise TO ALL parents out there; Make sure your children are Healthy, taken care off and educated. The rest will follow

  • @cerena
    @cerena Před 12 lety

    I went on birth control at 16 for horrible cramps and two years later, I nearly died of a pulmonary embolism. It was the worst pain I've been in my entire life and one of the scariest moments because I really thought I was dying. Birth control isn't something to be taken lightly. You really have to realize that these "possible side effects" are very real.

  • @missroxy1972
    @missroxy1972 Před 5 lety +1

    Every mom should watch this !!! Yes u can be delusional and say "my kids know what to do I trust them " but honestly she speaks the truth. She is my favvvv

  • @3Cats6Paws
    @3Cats6Paws Před 12 lety

    All moms should have this talk with their kids..proactive parents and sexual responsibility...

  • @1Ring2RuleDaMall
    @1Ring2RuleDaMall Před 12 lety

    Sex is for marriage. And I don't say this out of any sort of religious obligation or superstition. Sex is the procreative power that makes marriage different from being single, and our society does not understand this fact.

  • @CaribSkies
    @CaribSkies Před 12 lety

    2 things. 1) don't sign a prenup. 2) you better sharpen that pickaxe. it's tough out there in that gold mine.

  • @Nika-yx7mi
    @Nika-yx7mi Před 7 lety

    That's great advice. You can't control or stop children as that will only create hostility and shame. All you can do is support and be there for them.

  • @dawnten
    @dawnten Před 12 lety

    PS. The only reason she kept me is because she was legally married at the time and it would have made her look bad. Also found out the man she named as my father wasn't.....no clue who my father was because she won't say. People who are self centered should never have children. It bothers me that people say bad things about Bethenny for not speaking to her Mom. When she describes hers its like hearing myself except she doesn't mention the abuse.

  • @hermanmarie333
    @hermanmarie333 Před 11 lety +1

    No, this is what a responsible parent does. Good for her.

  • @kennethrosario6706
    @kennethrosario6706 Před rokem

    Lmao not circus lol

  • @masumamiah101
    @masumamiah101 Před 7 lety +3

    Nothing wrong with it ... I'm on birth control at 15 but for acne

  • @abbietaylor3177
    @abbietaylor3177 Před 12 lety

    No I do not masturbate. I refuse to engage in any sexual activity until marriage, and I really have no desire to.

  • @Savannahkrupp
    @Savannahkrupp Před 12 lety

    I feel bad for how much hate they get. Sure they are famous for a stupid thing, but all of them are still amazing entrepreneurs and have great work ethics.

  • @euphoric3836
    @euphoric3836 Před 3 lety +1

    The Boss Kris Jenner😭 I could never tell my mom that i want to have sex and want to start birth control she will say no and say I'm a little girl sex is for grown ups like her and my dad who are grown ups yh but can't even mind their kids my older sister takes care of their 3rd accident child financially they had in their 40's after being told growing up she wasnt allowed to have sex and if she get accidentally pregnant she would get disowned and they wouldnt support her😂😂😂 I'm 17 turning 18 this year btw

  • @LizzayMartini
    @LizzayMartini Před 10 lety

    Honestly, I think that last sentence is the smartest thing Kris has ever said since the Kardashians/Jenners came on the scene. "Make sure your kids are healthy, well cared-for and educated." Whether a teenager chooses to have sex or not, educating them is the most important step in preventing them from becoming pregnant/getting someone pregnant and/or contracting STDs if they do! Kudos to Kris for showing that she does actually give a shit about her kids.

  • @TheBerrekia
    @TheBerrekia Před 11 lety

    Okay, he did, but what does he do now after college?

  • @seerpou
    @seerpou Před 6 měsíci +1

    kris is a good mom

  • @ukuleilei2846
    @ukuleilei2846 Před 12 lety

    kris jenner is an incredible mother that anyone would be lucky to have just because some of her daughters were sexual at a young age shouldnt be a bad reflection on her parenting, shes absolutely right teenagers are going to do what they want to do and if birth control is what will protect them from getting pregnant than by all means i would put my child on it too

  • @abbietaylor3177
    @abbietaylor3177 Před 12 lety

    I never told you not to, I just gave my opinion on the subject. All I was saying is that I refuse to do it. Who cares if you have sex I really don't care what you do it isn't my business. I was stating my beliefs.

  • @JackieHall71
    @JackieHall71 Před 12 lety

    That is awesome! You are a strong young woman that was able to hold her ground. Not every young woman is strong enough to keep saying no to a pushy bf. You should be proud that you waited. I'm sorry your mom didn't take your word for it.

  • @TheREALforeverone
    @TheREALforeverone Před 12 lety

    Have you noticed that all the people in favor of birth control are already born? XD

  • @cecerodriguez1509
    @cecerodriguez1509 Před 11 lety

    She is a great mom its better to be safe than sorry and alot of parents always say they want the best for their children and shes making it happen she is makin them work hard so they have enough money instead of giving them her wallet that is how every mom should be

  • @JacquelineRamirez1983
    @JacquelineRamirez1983 Před 9 lety +24

    Ha ha....Educated? really?!....

    • @drakiebacon123
      @drakiebacon123 Před 9 lety +1

      lmao

    • @slowmopoke
      @slowmopoke Před 9 lety

      I WHENT TA HAZVARDS WIT HER SHE B DA BESTEST!~PEAS

    • @xBeautyBabeKx
      @xBeautyBabeKx Před 9 lety

      Jacquéline Jeunéqilac actually her children arnt stupid. Kourtney and the others except for Kim even went to collage.

    • @JacquelineRamirez1983
      @JacquelineRamirez1983 Před 9 lety

      xBeautyBabeKx What degree levels they have?

    • @kelendria
      @kelendria Před 8 lety

      +xBeautyBabeKx Kim went to college, khloe didnt. Actually kim, Rob and kourtney are the only ones who went to college, kim went for 4 years but didnt graduated, she was married at the time and wanted to just work. Kendall, kylie and khloe didnt go.

  • @Skittles861
    @Skittles861 Před 12 lety +1

    I respect her a lot for this

  • @dfdghsfkjhdskl
    @dfdghsfkjhdskl Před 12 lety +1

    who said it was a random guy it was her long time boyfriend

  • @ckid032393
    @ckid032393 Před 12 lety

    Im glad im not the only one who feels the same way.

  • @malibuXoXobabe
    @malibuXoXobabe Před 12 lety

    true but also the older ones weren't in the public eye when they were teenagers so i think Kendall and Kylie just try to stay out of trouble because the world would find out in a heart beat if they ever did anything questionable.

  • @abbietaylor3177
    @abbietaylor3177 Před 12 lety

    ok so don't put me down because I don't want to give it away the way you did

  • @LifeIsForeverADream
    @LifeIsForeverADream Před 12 lety

    Everybody makes mistakes. Nobody's life is perfect and many people have done things far worse than what this family has done but people think they are so bad just because they are in the public eye.

  • @playingforhim511
    @playingforhim511 Před 11 lety +4

    Abstain until marriage!

  • @kamillaiqbal6156
    @kamillaiqbal6156 Před 7 lety

    Anyone would want a mom that lenient as a teen.

  • @chertastic723
    @chertastic723 Před 12 lety

    the whole point of this is that you have to prepare for the worse. you could have a perfectly good child growing up and they have unprotected sex. parents need to be proactive and find solutions with their children no matter who you are

  • @567poppyseed
    @567poppyseed Před 11 lety

    maybe our society doesnt understand that fact because its not actually a fact, its an opinion.

  • @RearviewWisdom
    @RearviewWisdom Před 11 lety

    YES! girl do your thing! and you should feel proud of yourself. in that decision alone you are already special and different from the rest. woman to woman though dont ever loose sight of who you stand for. there will be the guy that comes into your life that throws you off balance just remember if he has a plan for you stays by you regardless of what you give him hes worth it. :)

  • @sha8808
    @sha8808 Před 11 lety

    I have to say that Kris looks great for her age and having had so many kids. She doesn't look plastic either. Good genes

  • @helldejour
    @helldejour Před 12 lety

    I think the reason people see this is wrong is because they think she forced her daughters into it. Think about it, if her daughters wanted to have sex, all the lectures and yelling in the world wouldn't stop them. It's probably just make it more appealing, with sex being so "forbidden" and "rebellious" and whatnot.
    She was making sure her daughters were safe *if* they even decided to do anything in the first place.

  • @digibox7037
    @digibox7037 Před 9 lety +2

    hi my parents just said if you get pregnant you can't live here and I know no young man living with their mom is going to be able to take care of me, needless to say I never had kids.

  • @peachlily22
    @peachlily22 Před 12 lety

    EDUCATED? um....ok how many of the kardashians went to college?

  • @btchitsda_wizardemoji
    @btchitsda_wizardemoji Před 12 lety

    from a teen's point of view, i cannot picture the day my mom would ever put me on birth control. Sex is not going anywhere so I do not have to rush. 16 and still virgin baby.

  • @katty81690
    @katty81690 Před 12 lety

    it's not too old to have sex for the first time. like i said, it's best to wait until one is ready, and i waited until i was ready.

  • @angelface1154
    @angelface1154 Před 12 lety

    It is stupid to enable a 15 year old to be sexually active
    the best thing that she could have done was just explain to kim
    that she should have waited until she was older and had found the
    one man that she truly loved

  • @ohBTW
    @ohBTW Před 12 lety

    And you've done so little with your life the only way you can feel important is if you talk shit on successful people whom you've never even met, and doing it all completely anonymously. The Kardashians have risen above and beyond the undeserved ridicule they've received and continue to receive. Kudos to their family for sticking together and realizing that family comes first. You could learn a lot from them.

  • @idaidaish
    @idaidaish Před 12 lety

    if more parents thought this way there would be less teen pregnancies in america.

  • @sasha038
    @sasha038 Před 11 lety

    She gets such a bad wrap but she seems like a good mom

  • @SoCalDude805
    @SoCalDude805 Před 12 lety

    Even if Kris had said no, she would of still had sex, that's just the way teens are.

  • @katty81690
    @katty81690 Před 12 lety

    anyone who says they don't masturbate is lying

  • @britney44371
    @britney44371 Před 12 lety

    It was 14. Kim said it herself on oprah she was 14 turning 15 soon..

  • @brebre1507
    @brebre1507 Před 12 lety

    I agree that you can tell a kid that a certain age is too young for sex... but then you better start looking for a pen to sign the legal papers for the next session of 'teen mom'.

  • @abbietaylor3177
    @abbietaylor3177 Před 12 lety

    Where is there shame in being a virgin. Ok let me put it like this. I will NEVER(pause for dramatic effect) EVER give up my virginity to someone I am not married too. And I don't care what anyone has to say about it. I also don't approve of teenagers having sex. And there isn't a person ON THIS EARTH that can change my mind.

  • @dawnten
    @dawnten Před 12 lety

    Thanks so much. I found out later that she had given up my siblings....older and younger that I wasn't supposed to know about. Guess she thought I would be the same. What is hurtful is that she still is pretending she is perfect and won't tell me anything so I can find my family.....she acts like they are only hers. My younger sister did find me....thats how it slowly revealed itself.

  • @Lifeandother
    @Lifeandother Před 12 lety

    I don't like Kim Kardashian and all this family. But I agree with her. Done the right thing

  • @babyfaceakamaria
    @babyfaceakamaria Před 12 lety

    I agree with Kris....its better to be safe than sorry....those parents who tell there kids that their not allowed to have bf/gf or don't have sex until a certain age are usually da ones dat do....I know alot of people like dat.

  • @sh7502
    @sh7502 Před 5 lety

    She is not a regular mom she's a cool mom.

  • @wade2bosh
    @wade2bosh Před 12 lety

    the one u pick is gonna feel special. and ur gonna be special cuz u didnt give it away to so many guys in casual sex.

  • @CherryAngel95
    @CherryAngel95 Před 12 lety

    my mother swears in front of me. doesnt make her bad

  • @DanishaYT
    @DanishaYT Před 11 lety

    This is probably the most sensible thing I've heard Kris say. More mothers should speak to their children about sex and get their daughters on birthcontrol when they realize they are having sex instead, of pretending like the "problem" isn't there or een worst, threatning their child to beat the shit out of them if they have sex.

  • @itsonlyhalftime666X
    @itsonlyhalftime666X Před 12 lety

    I'm 20 yrs old myself too but I'm a guy....and even though I lost my virginity...What you said is by far the most sexiest thing I've heard a girl say... maybe to some guys it may sound cheezy but to me that is so admirable and 10 times more attractive then a girl who has been around the block a couple times...your future hubby will be a lucky guy!

  • @treegerl
    @treegerl Před 11 lety

    first of all how is cursing infront of your kids considered bad parenting? and second why is getting divorced twice such a bad thing? Yes kourtney went to college (so did Rob btw) but for those who don't is that so terrible? And as for the sex tape, not only did it happen like 7 fucken years ago but if it was a private and personal home video that got leaked unintentionally i dont see why kim is STILL being called a slut...like anyone can make a sex tape dude. no one intends for it to get leaked

  • @OhMaDayzz
    @OhMaDayzz Před 12 lety

    You look ridiculous denying the things I said. Kim was not devastated - you are falling for her money-making ploys. And Kim was an adult when she made the sex tape, and even then that doesn't excuse it. Not many people are so devoid of morals that they'd make one in the first place.

  • @abbietaylor3177
    @abbietaylor3177 Před 12 lety

    I don't understand how you can be ok with your teenager having sex. I personally don't believe in sex before marriage because I am a christian. But a 15 year old in my opinion isn't mature enough for sex. Sex isn't suppose to be taken lightly. It isn't something you do just for fun, god meant for it to mean something. If your not old enough to vote your not old enough for sex.

  • @dawnten
    @dawnten Před 12 lety

    My Mother (term used loosely) put me on birth control at fifteen. I had serious bf's but never considered having sex until I was 20. Sometimes you should just trust your kids.

  • @m.l9805
    @m.l9805 Před 8 lety

    Exactly !!!!!!!!! Very well said !
    Kris Jenner

  • @dmcguirre
    @dmcguirre Před 11 lety

    By her own admission, she cheated on her 1st husbang, kim's dad. So she does not have a lot of credibility when it comes to behaving well, so why would her daughters listen to her??

  • @Gingagirl
    @Gingagirl Před 11 lety

    It's your life, and it's fine. Just let me fuck around as I please, please.

  • @angelface1154
    @angelface1154 Před 12 lety

    agreed

  • @ilyjuliana1
    @ilyjuliana1 Před 12 lety

    your 15 year old daughter said "I'm feeling sexual" and you as a "good" mother is to get her birth control and educated her... couple years later she has a sex tape...
    THIS HAS BEEN A SORT SEGMENT ON WHAT NOT TO DO WHEN YOUR 15 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER SAYS SHE IS FEELING SEXUAL.

  • @JackieHall71
    @JackieHall71 Před 12 lety

    I agree to a certain point however, if you do get your child on bc you need to make sure she is taking it like she should or they will not work. I told my son's gf to make sure she was protecting herself as well and make him use a condom even if she is on bc because you just never know. Of course they are older but if everyone would do both then yeah I think it would take care of a lot of the teen pregnancies. :-)

  • @spiicy90
    @spiicy90 Před 7 lety

    i agree 100% with everything she said.. but could that be the reason kim & khloe have had fertility problems? birth control has a lot of side effects

  • @Ellernnn
    @Ellernnn Před 12 lety

    Totally agree with Kris. But its totally innapropriate of Bethenny to ask about the younger girls. Asking about the sex life of a pair of 14 & 16 years olds is so wrong/ invasion of privacy.

  • @mbirnholz2
    @mbirnholz2 Před 11 lety

    How great is Bethenny?

  • @567poppyseed
    @567poppyseed Před 11 lety

    ....no it isnt. procreation can be for marriage, if that couple so chooses. but sex is not just for procreation. maybe go outside and realize that you live in the year 2013. and people are free to make whatever decision they choose regarding their sexuality. if you feel that sex should be solely for procreation then thats your prerogative, but dont condemn others for not following your beliefs. and if youre just having sex to make babies, you are seriously missing out on some good times.

  • @geurgo
    @geurgo Před 12 lety

    14 is waaay to young to be thinking about sex but if you are, then better be safe than sorry!

  • @triplerosez
    @triplerosez Před 11 lety

    That is so so true. It is a pity that many fail to understand this. The worst part is how people actually justify themselves with lame excuses like I was just "protecting her" and "giving her freedom". It is all simply bullshit to hide the fact that she couldnt take care of her daughter well.

  • @TheBerrekia
    @TheBerrekia Před 12 lety

    Okay, you're maybe at this point, and I bet your Mother is A Great Mom. But Kris didn't really educate her kids as A Mother is supposed to. The person who educate Kendall And Kylie is their Father that's why they're different to the Kardashians. Kim keep making mistakes, Kourtney wanna have kids with Scott but dont wnna marry him. Rob, no comment. All he wants is partying inastead working hard. And I Love Khloe because She's a Good example.

  • @kellyannabama
    @kellyannabama Před 11 lety

    i agree, your body is a temple not some drive through open day and night.

  • @IzzyIzzy100
    @IzzyIzzy100 Před 11 lety

    i wish i could of talked to my mom about stuff like this i could never she would of killed me & not understand at all :(...... at least they had a good mother & daughter relationship that kim could of talked to her about that stuff