Ep190: Love & Death in the Himalayas - Naomi Levine
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- In this episode I am joined by Naomi Levine, author, under her birth name Norma Levine, of multiple books including ‘The Miraculous 16th Karmapa’, ‘A Quest For The Hidden Lands’, and ‘Chronicles of Love and Death: My Years With The Lost Spiritual King of Bhutan’.
Naomi recalls why she dropped out of academia to pursue an alternative lifestyle, and through a series of life-changing encounters with Tibetan gurus such as Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, 16th Karmapa, and Tai Situpa, converted to Buddhism and moved to India to pursue a life of yogic practice.
Naomi describes her close discipleship under Tai Situpa, and recounts her initial meeting, and subsequent multi-year relationship, with the Shabdrung - a highly revered Bhutanese tulku said to possess potent magical abilities.
Naomi also discusses the difficulty of differentiating between crazy wisdom and abusive behaviour, reflects her own naivety about what the practice of Vajrayana really entails, and describes the signs of enlightenment after the death of great beings.
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www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep...
Also available on CZcams, iTunes, & Spotify - search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics Include:
00:00 - Intro
01:14 - Naomi’s recent autobiographical writings
04:58 - The last free generation
09:53 - How the world and culture changed and became less open
11:51 - Post war culture and music’s effect on culture
12:50 - Naomi’s PhD thesis on the English playwright Arnold Wesker and moving to England
14:37 - The extraordinary village of Hay-on-Wye
16:05 - Naomi’s family of origin and upbringing
17:48 - A powerful Saturn return
19:34 - Meeting Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche at Samye Ling
21:46 - Impressions of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
25:19 - Life changing meeting with the 16th Karmapa
26:30 - Becoming a disciple of Tai Situ Rinpoche
27:48 - Conversion to Buddhism
30:18 - Naivety about the realities of Vajrayana practice
33:23 - The Guru is not your best friend
34:20 - Not ready for Tantra
37:17 - What’s really required for Vajrayana practice
40:24 - Vajrayana cannot be taught in today’s culture
45:11 - Meeting the Shabdrung for the first time
49:06 - Falling in love with the Shabdrung and beginning a relationship
51:16 - The remarkable story of the previous Shabdrung incarnations
53:02 - Great beings can still experience trauma
55:08 - Crazy wisdom or just crazy?
01:01:13 - Impressions of Bhutan
01:03:49 - Supernatural experiences around the Shabdrung
01:05:58 - The death of the Shabdrung and revealing realisation
01:08:31 - Shabdrung’s opinion of other lamas
01:10:14 - How Naomi’s book was received
01:13:14 - Not a great Khandro
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To find out more about Naomi Levine, visit:
- / naomilevine111
- www.amazon.com/stores/Norma-L...
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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
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Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James - Zábava
Amazing woman, amazing time,
A story of such a strong and special life.
Thank you.
Respectfully disagree. There is nothing amazing by making a name/money by speaking about her romantic relationship with a well-known Rinpoche so publicly and worse, selling it. There is also nothing strong about criticising brave female survivors of lama misconduct who tell their stories for no personal profit and wanting to help and benefit others.
She is so spot on about the mismatch between the hippie generation and Tibetan lamas. I often feel many Tibetan lamas feel trapped by their Western disciples and their 60s counter-culture politics. Naomi Levine hit the nail on the head when she narrates how Tai Situpa realized that his Western disciples were hippies. Wonderful!!!
One of my fave interviews by far. Astonishing lady. Please have a 2nd interview.
Wow what a great surprise this was, I’m surprised I never heard of her before but now really really want to check out her books.
great, very sincere
Extraordinary interview, her humility attests to her genuine practice in reltionship to the masters. Please sequel.
Best discussion on Vajrayana, guru/disciple relationship I've heard. Thanks so much, Naomi, for sharing.
I have had a 'Guru'. I don't know y'all....I don't know. Nature teaches me more gently. 🌱 Not discarding, just more cautious and detailed solo, unfortunately, or fortunately. 🙏❤️🙏
Thank you again for the engaging conversations. 🔥🎆🔮
What a great Blessing to encounter VAJRA Master's Theachings 🙏
thanks a lot Steve for bringing Naomi in your talk. Very profound, bold and mind blowing ideas and life she lived and living..... Wish I meet her at least once to feel that kind of DAKINI energy....
Such a great interview.
Thank you for explaining all this so honestly & clearly.
amazing interview
Many thanks !
Looking forward to part 2.
1.01.46...Many Bhutanese wear their formal traditional attire with that white scarf, in holy places like Bodhgaya. They do it to show reverence.
I haven't read her book, but I am familiar with the Shabdrung through his wife Khandro Thrinley Choden, I'm curious how Norma levines' relationship overlapped with their official marriage .
Searching 'Norma Levine' was successful for finding her book discussed here. One Amazon customer and review states:
"It is the age-old story that people delude themselves around spiritual teachers and allow to be expoited and abused.
Why does Norma remain so deluded? It is the age-old story of a woman being in love with a man of power and status - not with the person himself. She makes this distinction very clear at many points in her description saying that she would have never given him a second look if hadn't had the status that he had. The book title should have been Chronicles of Greed for Status and Power, rather than Love and Death.
So, here we have it in a nutshell: woman who is greedy for power and status falls 'in love' with a cruel narcissistic man to attain some status herself. After she has been badly badly bruised she goes off to lick her wounds, nearly loses her faith in Buddhism and then writes a book to vindicate her delusions. So sad!"
So deluded that Norma slanders brave survivors of cruel teachers as samaya-breakers (who expose them for altruistic motives and not for fame or money) and yet she does not see her selling her 'bad romance' story as samaya-breaking at all. Kettle calling the pot black.
So sad...your life is so sad
Wow
once in a while you accidently get a real practitioner on unlike your typical crap
Tibetains are born buddhist n they know what is buddhism....its division of sects...viz gelup n kagyupas....my view on Naomi's comment
Norma doesn't understand the difference between relative and absolute values. She's way off beam to suggest that exposing power, sexual, emotional and physical abuse by Tibetan lamas is taboo because of a Tantric vow related to yogic practice. Category error.
Totally agree. Sadly, Naomi is rather typical of deluded followers who mistake guru devotion and samaya for enabling lama abuse and sexual objectification of women. Insulting and ignoring brave survivors who have exposed and called out lama abuse and dishonesty among her own teachers (as Naomi does) is not the kind, wise or loving way at all. It is not the Buddhist way.
Disagree with both of you, humbly. Labels and judgmental attitudes are not from Buddhism either.
To be able to differentiate between ethical and unethical conduct is highly core Buddhist. Not being able to do so is contrary to Buddhism. The basis of all good spiritual qualities - as the texts stress - is ethical conduct.
@@leepatton3538 lost in the formless realms
@@leepatton3538lost in the formless realms.
She seems a bit confused about some things concerning history and politics. She should either stick strictly to talking about Buddhism or actually go back to the academy to hone and deepen her understanding of economics and geopolitical history. If you claim to be apolitical-nobody is actually apolitical or non-ideological, it’s just that many people are like fish who don’t understand water-then you should stick to what you know and not comment outside your area of acknowledged expertise.
The personal, anecdotal aspects of her story is a good listen, though.
I dont agree
@@gyurmethlodroe1774 So you enjoy hearing non-experts make factually inaccurate analyses of culture, history, and politics then? I’ll be sure to disregard your uninformed opinions.
@@baizhanghuaihai2298 you don't like it? So be it. I like it so be it.
I don't have to agree with you, you don't have to agree with me. Just dont think your words holds more weight than mine. It doesn't.
@@gyurmethlodroe1774 Facts hold immeasurably more weight than your personal opinions, that’s all I’m saying.