Trufuel vs E10 vs Ethanol Free gas
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- čas přidán 5. 11. 2017
- I test e10, ethanol free, and tru fuel to see what runs the best and the coolest.
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Never had issues with true fuel and that why I like it. In my state there’s very few places to get ethanol free fuel (Closest place is 40min away). I’ve used it for several years on all my yard equipment and there’s been no gumming up of a carb or poor performance. It’s expensive but so is buying new equipment and parts every two or three years.
Thanks for sharing
Just bought some Tru Fuel. No gas stations sell Non-Ethanol in CT or within the NYC tri-state area.
Good test. I recently gave trufuel a go in my 461. I did notice the saw ran smoother than on 91 octane pump gas.
Thanks!
Interesting test, I love my MS 261CM. Great saw, seems to be the perfect all around saw.
Thanks. Yes, the 261 is a great all a round saw.
neat video. I run a 92 octain with red armor or Dolmar synthetic oil. if I may be storing the saw or not planing on using it for a month or so I put the husqvarna xp canned fuel
Thanks. I might have to try some red armor sometime. I wonder how the XP fuel and the Stihl moto mix would stack up against trufuel.
Great test. I have an older, non electronic MS 361. I am usually not as worried about performance as about longevity. I keep about 50 gallons of fuel stored all summer in case I need it for my generator after a hurricane. If I don't use it by the end of winter, I start putting it in my truck. In the past, I have had small engine issues (chain saw, weed wacker, leaf blower or power washer), with suspect old fuel. Now I store nothing but e-free gas that I use in my generator and power washer. In my small 2 cycles I use nothing but 40 or 50 to 1 canned gas. If I think I see water or gunk in an engine, I use canned gas for trouble shooting. I'll check back to see what else you test. Thanks.
Going with the e free gas for storage is a good idea. A good stabilizer may help too. The canned gas is great for something that sees intermittent use.
Did you resharpen at any time during the testing? Another reason the time could increase and the temperature go up.
No, I did not resharpen. As I said in the video, the saw was brought up to operating for each fuel before testing.
Great video. Just wondering if the blade dulling or buildup of pitch is slowing down the cut over time.
I'm sure it slows down some from dulling but not very much.
Not sure what you were trying to show or prove. Only difference between those three fuels is the 5% natural water content of the hydrous ethanol used in the USA and the long term damage that water will do to the saw. Let that saw sit on the bench for 6months with E10 in the tank and carb. Then do some tests.
I was testing to see how each fuel performed. I have 3 Stihl 026 chainsaws. If anyone wants to sponsor a long term test I'll do it.
Just saying...that was a waste of time...all three are going to burn equally well...it's the issue of keeping the E10 in your saw for an extended time, that is the real problem...Its a problem we all face...not whether it burns or not...it's the water in the fuel that causes the gas to deteriorate faster and clog and rust our equipment...
@@RTD1947 I agree. What did this prove? Time wise, a new chain would have to be installed with each fuel change to get cut time test correct.
This is good data. It proves that at this point in time all three are ~the same. I learned something. I already know long term ethanol sucks.
@@RTD1947 if you're going to store your power equipment for a long time without using it, then you throw the fuel out and run it till it dies not just leave the damn thing full or half full.
But, yes!!! Awesome testing... you performed almost flawlessly... the only arguable variable would be a dulling chain @ the end of the test...
Also, how long or what is the criteria of getting the M tronic to relearn?
Thanks, if I do any testing in the future I may change the change out for relearn cuts. I'm not sure how long it takes to relearn. I think it should relearn as soon as it hits wood.
chain dullness shouldn't be a factor after 3 cuts
i was going to comment but you said exactly what i was thinking of typing... not a fan of computer controls for something punished and taken into the woods...perhaps if he had sharpened the blade before each trial would have made it more equivalent... also cool down betwwen test because air cooled engines do loose power after heat up, i.e. the dirt bikes of today love the water cooling...more consistent power...
Can I use ethonal free for 2 stroke engine after oil mixed like chain saw or week wackers?
Yes you can use e free for 2 cylce equipment.
What are the numbers that flash during the cuts? Time to cut?
Yes, the cut times.
Good video I have run e10 without any issues, red armor oil. Occasionally I will get a gallon of VP pre-mix from tractor supply, usually when I need to restock bar/chain oil TS has the best price around here. Interesting how the true fuel runs hotter, wondering if you lose some oil being premixed for who knows how long?
Thanks. I just about always run E10. I've probably on bought 4 or 5 gallons of e free. I forgot that VP had the cans. I'm not sure why the trufuel runs hotter. If I wanted to test more I could buy a can of trufuel with out the mix and add my own. I suspect it is the fuel itself.
Interesting comparison, did the saw cool down between tests? That might be why it was hotter with each set of cuts. Also, I think the octane's are similar, ethanol or not, if you left the E10 in for 3 months without stabilizer you would have bad gas. I'm interested though if the ethanol-free pumped gas is better than pre-mixed ethanol free fuel. It sure is a lot cheaper if you can get it. I'm using ethanol-free pumped gas in my lawn mower, planning on getting TruFuel but it's 5x the price...
After the fuel was drained, I made a few cuts to warm the saw back up and flush the previous fuel out of the line. Then I did my timed cuts. I think the advantage to the premix fuel is the shelf life.
Tractor Tech good idea for when your equipment isn’t in use over the winter
Any concerns about a duller chain could be addressed a bit better if you had run a fourth test with the E10 again at the end. If the E10 times were similar in the first and last series, then a dulled chain would be ruled out. Without having temps compared before each series of cuts we don't have a way to fully ascertain if the saw was fully warmed up or not. Plus the temp readings were very erratic so the methodology for temperature measurement is probably flawed.
Next time I do a test like this, I will repeat the first test at the end to see if the chain did dull.
Do ya think that with each pass, the blade would get a little duller with each cut? Is the chain still as sharp from the first cut to the last cut (#9)? did you make any test cuts during the fuel change over? I'm just looking for variables.
I'm sure the chain gets duller with each cut, but I doubt it would be a noticeable amount. I made 3 cuts of camera in another log after the fuel was drained and refueled to help warm the saw back up and for it to relearn.
I think the heat rise came from a duller chain . Thank you for the video !! Be safe and God bless you and your family !!!! Eddy
Thanks Ray. Etahnol has cooling properties so that is why the E10 ran cooler. I'm not about the trufuel though since it is an engineered fuel. I probably should have changed the chain out while I was doing my cuts for the saw to relearn.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
good video buddy. It's funny cuz I do test like this at home testing out different saws, mix oils, bar oils, etc. then when I'm done.... I lookl around and think "crap, what the hell am I gonna do with all these wood biscuits now?! LOL I just stack them up in the shop and run in the shop stove. Not sure what else to use them for. LOL
I used to do a lot of testing. I don't have time for it like used to. I do have some testing that I want to do. I have a pine in the woods that fell over that should be good for it.
They all should work just fine, problem with ethanol is parts damage in storage and time!
Yeah, ethanol can make ruin a carb to the point that it is not rebuidlable.
I run ethanol free gas in my machines, it allows me to lean out the fuel mixture therefore making the engine more fuel efficient. While e10 does work, the tendency for the ethanol to attack the diaphragms and absorb water steers me clear of it, in a sealed system such as on an automobile e10 is fine but not for a vented fuel system such as on yard equipment.
The cost of pure gas (for me) out weighs the savings in fuel.
Tractor Tech it’s not only that but also the reduced maintenance costs as well, I meant to put that in my last comment. Tru fuel is far too expensive for me but ethanol free around where I live is only around 15 cents more than e10 and sometimes it costs the same as e10 on a good day
Good video thanks
Thanks!
Should have done it with a regular carb saw. That you can tell if it runs leaner also
I may have to do that in the future. I know going from e free gas to E10, the saw would be leaner. Trufuel may be richer, IDK?
I do not know, but I "think" m-tronic does not "re-calibrate" unless you follow some specific procedure; maybe extended idle, I forget...
That is for a major change. It should learn to new gas or changes in the weather.
My saws do not have electronic carburetors and cannot self adjust for fuels of differing energy contents. As a side note, ethanol left in a 1973 Ford truck resulted in a ruined gas tank, fuel pump and several stuck intake valves. Ethanol does better with a sealed fuel system but can be disastrous if left sitting for long periods of time in a non sealed or vented system such as with many small engines. This is from personal experience with weed eaters and chainsaws left sitting for long periods of time.
I've seen regular gas cause the valve to stick in a 59 Edsel.
It would be interesting to see a test using Amsoil Saber Professional.
I may do some oil testing in the future.
I wouldn't run that any leaner than 50:1 in a chainsaw. I saw a pic of an MS441 piston after run with that Amsoil Saber at their claimed lean ratios. It wasn't pretty!
Don't run ANY chainsaw leaner than 50:1. And use a quality esther based synthetic oil like Maxima Formula K2 (2 Stroke Racing Oil).
I like your video.
Thanks!
I don't know nothing about the true fuel I just seen it on the internet today a matter of fact I use ethanol free gas in mine but I was just wondering with your temperature test every time you cut with that chain you've made it a little bit dollar don't you think that last cut the saw was working a little bit harder I don't know just an idea
I doubt it dulled that much in a few cuts.
What bar length do you run on your 261 ?
I have two 261s. The one I bought new with a 16'' 3/8 lopro bar. It cuts good with that setup but it dulls a little faster if the wood is not clean than .325 or 3/8. Then I also have a 16'' 3/8 bar for it. The other 261 was purchased used and it had a 16'' .325 bar. Right now I have a 18'' 3/8 bar on it. I think that 3/8 chain may be too much for it since it is stock. The other one has a muffler mod. IMO the best bar for a 261 is 18'' .325 bar, which is how Stihl tells the dealers to equip these saws. If you have other saws with longer bars a 16'' .325 bar would be good too.
Thank You Much for your time to reply. I just bought one, the CM model and opted for the 18" .325 bar/chain. Believe I made the right choice! It my first chainsaw. Should be here next week. Thanks Again!
Your welcome. I hope you like your new saw. I think you made a good choice. After about 5 tanks it will really wake up.
For me and my conditions, I use non ethanol in all my small engines, chainsaws, lawn mower, weedeater, atv, blower etc. I'll never go to ethanol, I hate that gov mandated junk.
Whatever works for you.
JohnnyBDyer I’m with you on pure gasoline...nothing better
@@larryreno8293 same here. i usually get either rec 90 from sams or the murphy 92 ethanol free.
i think perhaps you should have put the saw on a stable surface. i could see the saw moving and the heat gauge moving and the temp bouncing all over the place. i think e free is the way to go, e 10 starts breaking down the minute yo buy it. stabelizer helps but...... i dont have a source of e free gas here in maine where i live except way up in greenville 3 hours away. if i did that is what i would use for sure.
I was trying to get an average temp of the cylinder.
Here in michigan most marinas have R90. Recreational 90 octane. No lead, no ethanol. A lot of bikers use it in their road bikes. I use it in tractors, mowers, saws, trimmers, a little more expensive 5.00 a gallon. But not 30.00 a gallon like trufuel.
Thanks man.
No problem!
Video shows minimal performance difference. Was wondering about that.
Thanks for watching!
did u wait 5 hours between tests? If not, of course the saw will warm up hotter the more you use it. Hence last test was the hottest.
As I said in the video, the saw was warmed up before testing the first fuel, then after it was drained and replaced with the next fuel it was warmed up again.
I would never use anything but " trufuel " but here in Sweden it's called aspen in my chainsaw , and if you are gonna review different gas you should have 3 chainsaws and use them for a few months and then do the test !
This was just a performance test.
Aspen 2 is great fuel!!!😊
Use VP and mix Amsoil Saber 50:1bif I can’t get Rec gas. I will use pump gas 90+ octane if I have to. I only store for a long time with VP or other similar fuel.
I'd like to try saber. I run Lucas now. I have 2 gallons of it so I will be using it a while.
50:1 is so the engine wears out faster so you have to keep buying new ones, that's what all the small engine mechanics have always told me. The old mix on all the old chainsaws used to be 40:1, now it's 50:1. The mechanical aspects of chainsaws really haven't changed so why the mix change? I bought a chainsaw when this new mix came out and the saw wore out faster. Then I bought the same one again this time using the old mix of 40:1 and I still have it, works great. Just a thought that has nothing to do with this video but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Anyone reading this has comment about what I just said I'd love to hear it.
The mix changed because the machine work on the parts is better and the oil is better then what it was 30 years ago.
I wondered this as well... My dad bought a new chainsaw and he tried to start it with 40:1 and couldn't as much as he tried. Threw in some 50:1 and started right up! We thought what's the deal??? Thanks for the video!
I run 40:1 in all my saws and 2 stroke motors. Never had a problem with them.
@@Chris-qf9qm yeah I bought a Husqvarna for $500 it's the 460 rancher model it says it takes 50:1 but I use 40:1 still runs perfect I have no idea what this other commenter is talking about unless there's some kind of mixture sensor in the engine won't run on anyting but 50:1 I don't know I'm not a small engine repair man😂
I'm not, nor do I claim to be a chainsaw professional. However, I'm not a newbie either. I own 3 chainsaws... a Husqvarna 440, an Echo 501P and an Echo 620P. All 3 call for a 50:1 mix ratio per the manufacturer. I was recently conversing with a guy that I would consider a chainsaw pro after watching one of his CZcams videos on the subject of chainsaw oils. Here is what I gleaned from the video and what he told me.
1. He told me... "Never run anything less than 50:1 in a saw.". This eliminates using that Amsoil Saber that claims 80:1 and 100:1 mix ratios. In his video he had a picture of a piston from an MS441 that such had been used in. It wasn't pretty!
I was suspicious of Amsoil's claim to begin with, so I never bought or used it.
2. He has experience with a multitude of oils. In his video he recommended using an ester based synthetic oil. The one in particular he uses and recommends is Maxima Formula K2 (2 Stroke Racing Oil).
3. I told him all my saws were in stock form and if I did any modifications that it would only be muffler mods and carb tuning. I was planning to run 50:1 using the Formula K2 mixed with 92/93 pump gas since that was the ratio recommended by the manufacturers. Or would he recommend another ratio such as 40:1? He said, "40:1 will be perfect in your saws."
Now all my saws have 3 screw adjustable carbs. So in a new saw that utilizes user non-adjustable M-tronic (Stihl) or Auto-tune (Husqvarna) carbs this may not work. I would just buy a single small can of 40:1 pre-mixed fuel and test it with a half full tank. I honestly would think it should burn just fine unless that computer "brain" is set somehow to know the difference and forbid it. I know there have been changes in chainsaw technology over the years, but I agree. These leaner mixes create less pollution, but at a certain point what is the trade-off? Most likely shorter engine life. Another reason I only buy chainsaws free of "smart carbs".
I have normally used E10 but I found a non ethanol station near me
The e free stations are pretty scarce.
@@TractorTech not as scarce as you you think.
lets assume you live somewhere where the gas stations don't sell E free gas. how do you get e- free? well nearly everyone has a general avaition air field or air port near them. 100 low lead is e-free. thats one. call your local boating store. chances are they know which marina in the area sells e-free.
lastly you can buy sunoco or VP race gas. you're local speed shop can help you out or you can even order it on the internet delivered. its about $8 a gallon.
I think most folks are concerned about using ethanol based fuels because ethanol is hygroscopic and draws in water which causes real problems in carburetors. I SUPPOSE MANY TYPES AND COMPOUNDINDS of gasoline - oil mixes may work well but I would not leave ethanol containing mixes in the saw for long periods of time.
No, you don't want to leave it for a long period of time. People are jsut very confused of about e10 and it isn't as bad as they think. Pure gas will still harm a carb if left too long.
I USE 100LL FROM THE LOCAL GENERAL AVIATION PUMP MIXED 50/50 WITH 93 ETHANOL FREE FROM BUCKEES. THEN MIX 40-45/1 SYNTHETIC 2 CYCLE OIL. RUNS VERY CLEAN AND LASTS
FOREVER ( AT LEAST 2 YEARS) .( BTW, THE 100LL HAS ALMOST NO LEAD THESE DAYS.)
Why not use straight 93 e free?
@@TractorTech JUST TRYING TO UP THE OCTANE LEVEL SOME--------BY THE WAY, TWO CYCLE ULTRA LIGHTS USE THE 100LL WITH NO PROBLEM AND HAVE FOR YEARS.
AGAIN, VERY CLEAN FUEL
I thought I was the only one using avgas! It’s mostly alkylate as is most of the premixes.if you ever notice the 100LL has hardly any odor and lasts a long time. before catalytic converters all pump gas had lead but no ethanol.how did the saws survive. They did get carboned up. Also little or no benzene or toluene.(aromatics).
Thanks for the video, PLEASE use some safety equipment.
Your welcome. I had ear plugs in, I forgot my safety glasses that day.
He's talking about chaps, gloves, and a helmet. All it takes is that one time and then you'll be sorry you didn't have those on.
Did ya change/sharpen the chain after each test? I doubt it. Typical chain dulling slowing her down. This video just proved that it ain't so much about the fuel, but the chain getting duller as the test wore on.
No, I did not sharpen the chain or change it. If I sharpened it, how do you know it would have been to the same sharpness each time? I doubt it dulled very much during the test.
By the time you got the trufuel yes even after just six Cuts with a log that size your chain has become dull!..
That's a bogus test.
Plus you need to let the saw sit and cool for about an hour which I'm sure you didn't.
The saw was warmed up for the first cut and then when I switched fuels it was warmed back up. I mentioned that in the video...If a chain dulls that much in a few cuts it is not a good chain. If you want sponsor the new test and buy me 3 new chains, a can of trufuel, a gallon of e10, and a gallong of e free gas, I'll rerun the test. $75 should cover everything.
fyi. shell nitro v+ while it does have ethanol in it, its only 5-6% rather than 10. i'm just saying if you can't get ethanol free, the shell 93 is lower ethanol.
I didn't know that, thanks.
@@TractorTech yup as tested by Project Farm.
Really? Would love to see data/test. Is Shell 93 the only ethanol brand sold that does 5-6% ethanol? What about BP, Chevron or Sunoco?
@@1984AP Project farm bro.
@@MrSGL21 I just pulled some videos up. I heard from someone that Project Farm also said Star Tron fuel treatment is bogus.
Better test would be buy 3 saws. Run each for a year. Keep track of oil& gas usage. See what happens to Ethanol saw IF it sits in garage for 2 months. Not everyone remembers to drain fuel out and run dry. Alcohol also drys out seals....not a good thing for a 2 stroke. I will stick with fresh premium fuel without Ethanol.....
These test was just to see how well each fuel performed. I think I have 18 saws plus 2 leaf blower, a pole saw, and a string trimmer. I run E10 in them all and I have never had an ethanol related problem, or any fuel related problem. The one saw 1986 model and the other is a 1988 and both still have the original fuel line. If anyone want to sponsor a long term test I'll do it.
If fresh gas mix no problem. The advantage of Trufuel is storing saws or 2 cycle or for not using much.
Yes, the advantage is the storage life.
It will run HOTTER with pure gasoline.
Ethanol burns with 20% LESS BTUs than plain straight gasoline BY WEIGHT.
You are correct. I hear so many people saying my lawnmower or chainaw runs cooler with pure gas, so that is why I threw that part in there.
Bull Crap! So what did you prove? I don't believe the type fuel made any significant difference in the cylinder temps. What you need to test is how many cuts can you get out of tank tank of fuel and how well does the chainsaw run and start after a year of use of each type of fuel.
I proved that e-10 was fastest and ran coolest, and that tru fuel was the slowest and ran the hottest. I'll gladly run the tests you suggest. Paypal me some money to buy a few cases of tru fuel and we can discuss the details.
Nice effort but there's too many variables in your test for this comparison. Duller chain. Saw wasn't cooled to same temperature, amount of pressure applied when cutting. But the real reason why ethanol free is better is because it cuts out carb problems from sitting and doesn't eat up your fuel lines.
The chain should not have dulled much with no more cuts than I made. I think I made 3 cuts in another log after the gas was drained and replaced to a warm the saw back up and to relearn. I let the chain self feed. I think it is close enough to tell the difference between the 3.
ethanol has a nasty habit of corroding, brass aluminum and petrifying rubber. needless to say, I wouldn’t run it in any of my equipment or anything carbureted for that matter. i use ethanol free gas its readily available in my area. never used the pre mix the cost alone is enough to keep me from using it.
Did anyone else see that his saw got up to 1899 degrees
no
dude need to change chain post each test to be accurate
I doubt the chain dulls that much after a few cuts.
This is as accurate as it can be, in no way is the chain going to dull after 3-6 cuts
A chainsaw is not a toy you don’t have to rev it and you should always use stihl fully synthetic my uncle works at a dealer and using their fully synthetic makes it lasts longer and doesn’t build up as much carbon every single time you rev it you can mess the computer for the carberator up
The Lucas semi synthic burns very clean. It actually cleans the engine up. The engine performs better with lucas over Sthil Ultra.
FaZeStormz Vlogs your uncle sweeping the floor at a dealer does not make you an expert.
You should get your uncle to show you the imaginary computer on a chainsaw carburetor!
Not a very good test at all !!! Ask any NASCAR engine builder what the better gas and Y !! You got a great saw and look like your chain was very sharp ,,good job cutting !!
A 2 cycle chainsaw engine is very different than a Nascar engine.
My saw runs on petrol..
We don't have petrol here, just gas.
@@TractorTech lol ..
When you turn it off you should give max throttle for 1 to 2 seconds while your giving max throttle shut it off don’t let it idle
Why?
Heat = Power.... if it runs TOO HOT or creates hot spots that's a bigger issue...
Let us keep in mind that even though it's onl 1 octane number less, it has less resistance to burn... IE: burns easier & hotter...
Right, I thought with the trufuel being 1 point less it had an advantage.
Higher the octane the less resistance to burn. Higher octane the less risk of pre-detonation/knock. Higher octane burns hotter.
Don't buy trufuel.... Just by ethanol free and mix your own.
I had heard it was faster than regular gas so I wanted to try it.
@@TractorTech Check out VP racing engineered 50:1 its 94 octane ethanol free