*Grandson lives out from town on 18 acres and the **Latest.Bike** is great on trails through the woods, on gravel driveway, and through the yard. Keeps them active. Thanks Easter Bunny*
Probable suites an upright universal comfort bike where you sit almost upright. Was considering the seat for MTB but realised it would be useless as on down hill/xc you need to get behind the seat at times and that would be a big hazard. Glad I watched this review.
Just an idea, but maybe instead of tilting the seat back, you could've tried moving it forwards and lower your seatpost a bit. To me it looks like you are supposed to position yourself a lot deeper on this saddle than on the traditional ones.
thanks so much for such a great and thoughtful review. I am just recovering from robotic prostatectomy for prostate cancer and have had a lot of complications. During my recovery, I have built a gravel bike and looking forward to getting back on my bike is keeping me positive. I have perineal tenderness your excellent review saved me from buying this(I spin at 100rpm and like to ride on looser gravel so I want some control). I am leaning towards a ism saddle if my specialized toupe causes too much pain. Keep up the great videos!
Au contraire Steve... the seat puts zero nil zilch pressure on prostate. It takes about 4 rides and a bit of adjusting to find the sweet spot but when u do it's fantastic. Been riding it for 6 months or more and would never go back. The reviewer did it a big disservice because anything radical like this takes a bit of time and effort to adjust to. One ride is a joke just as getting on any new seat will cause pressure points due to the new position.
@@bruceingram6014 I must agree with you, Bruce. I suffered a seat-related injury from mtn biking. I soon realized that the only comfortable type of seat was actually a toilet seat (because it totally unweights the perineum and the tailbone, which are allowed to dangle freely). Unfortunately, there are no bike seats that faithfully resemble a toilet seat. However, The All Wings Falcon looks like it fits the bill for preventing PN and sacral nerve compression. A caution to all readers: Once you’ve irritated or compressed those nerves, daily sitting becomes unbearable. Despite what your ‘biking bros’ tell you, the loss of erectile function is not the biggest worry, it’s searing pain coupled with abnormal function in your peri-anal area, perineum, and external genitalia. Ride the saddle that feels invisible and try standing whenever you can.
Exactly what I was thinking. When lowering the saddle the thigh doesn't move as far back under the seat, bingo, no more getting pushed forward. Yes, it's a compromise on the leg angle but if he had lowered the seat and moved it back and shortened the stem to keep the reach then again his leg wouldn't be pushing him forward as much. He even alluded to the push when he said the seat was digging into the back of his leg when it was tilted too far down in the back. Oh well. I'm not interested in the saddle but it looks interesting for different types of bikes.
The manufacturers say exactly that but like everything about the report it has ignored what they advise. Why let the truth get in the way of a story eh?!
Interesting. For years I suffered with pain and urinary problems caused by the nose of the traditional saddle. I tried a variety of split nosed perches but still suffered eventually throwing the towel in on cycling for two years. I came across the Spiderflex seat which does look very similar to this All Wings jobby. The Spiderflex is padded so I gave it a whirl. After a number of trials I found my best position and, considering the alternative, continue to enjoy cycling once again. You are right in that bruising is a problem and that no hands riding is out but I cant complain - but I might.
Just starting riding for exercise to get into a better shape than round. It's been 32 yrs since I rode a bicycle, so I thought my agony was due to that, but it was the nose of the seat. Oddly, I hadn't sat on the seat long enough for it to be perineum pain, it was the twins that ached. Someone suggested turning my seat backwards and the pain was gone instantly. So, I've been looking at seats like this because the benefits far outweigh the pain and lack of exercise.
Great video you gave more than fair trial . Your points are so enlighting and usefull. Too bad the seat is not. Try the new seat called the " V Seat" a try. This one might be more usefully functional! Thanks for information from usefull prosectives!
An accurate representation if you ask me he should have started by lowering the seat. Sliding forward and too much weight on the hands tells me the saddle is too high.
When all your friends were looking at the seat it reminded me of a scene from the movie "The Gods must be Crazy" when the natives discovered a coke-cola bottle. Your one friend cracked me up when he said "What is it", lol. At any rate, thanks for the informative and well thought out review. Personally, I'll be sticking with my "Specialized Power" saddle.
Like you say, it's a problem there is only on position. And it looks like it needs to be done in a different material to be comfortable. For a slow city-type rider, it might be ok ?
Should have tried it lowered, that sliding forward sensation without a nose makes me think you've got your seat high. Also indicated by having too much weight on your hands.
Very thorough review of this "saddle", as per usual. By the way, patent attorneys make a lot of money from people who have ridiculous ideas and the money to back them up. I'm all for trying new things, but like the wheel, some things just can't be improved upon.
Thank you for the honest review. One thing no one mentions is the body position for optimizing the use of these noseless. I have tried a few and found the same results, slipping forward and no way to slide your body fore and aft as I do all day long using different pedal strokes. So no surprises for road bike positions. I have 8 bikes in my stable (don't own a car) have each one set up differently so I am not in the same body position, I also have 10 makers of shorts and soon will be making my own, so the seams and "friction" layer positions change day to day. (remember when they were thin friction layer NOT padding...WTF@@*&^!!! ). So my city bikes are set way up for almost a straight back (perpendicular to the road); this means the slipping forward may not be a problem, but now there will much greater body weight on the saddle and need some comfort there. And (as you discovered) pinch points that should not be pressing or rubbing all around the contact points, even though there are much less contact and rubbing points on these saddles. Saddles continue to be a problem for full time cyclists, I will try the "Spongy Wonder" saddle next, but may have to add a stand up bike like the Eliptigo or Street Strider to the stable. 10,000 (16,000K) miles a year is just too much saddle time. I may also try an Electra crank forward bike for a radical change in seat/body position, these lay back seat tube angles I have used before are a very big change from the 73 degree road bikes; big problem is pedal stoke is not natural and climbing steep hills dangerous to the knees, so will have to add a motor for climbing. //// trying to survive without a car today //// :) Any thoughts? I am 66 years old, a serious cyclist for 56 years, raced pro in the 80s.
I purchased the Infinity saddle a couple of years ago. This is the saddle for the rest of my life. Discomfort a thing of the past. Give it a try, they had a return policy when I purchased mine,
Remove the points that dig in on the wings and add a small nose that is not really connected to the rear wings. This way it is like a conventional saddle but it would have a big Y open section to protect the nerves. That is the only way I could see this working any better. Maybe even make it so you could move the nose forward and back, and the wings in and out?
@@discbrakefan No, it just isn't a fact that it's absolutely the only good option, we just haven't found anything better yet. One thing I will say though, there's no alternative that's been marketed that ever did unsettle the industry.
You're right, all racing saddles are the same shape. The only real big saddle innovation which has actually worked is the ISM split nose design, which isn't actually that much of a change.
I figured you should lower it a bit and move it forward when you started feeling too much weight at the start. Give it another go with the suggestions people have offered before retiring it.
@@stevenleffanue Mate - one ride... not following instructions...ridiculous... takes at least 3 -4 rides for sit bones to readjust and a bit of playing round but once you hit the sweet spot it is great.
We use the nose of the seat for bike control a lot more than is obvious. We also change positions on the seat a lot, and the nose of the seat serves as a physical reference point. Noseless seats are not new either, I saw variations of it in the '90s and they eventually disappeared from the market because they don't work as well as cyclists would like.
Good in depth review thank you. In my opinion the seat might be good and comfortable for street riding but I think for off-road riding I would want the nose there for a little bit of control. But then again it might be like anything else I'm just comfortable with a nosed seat. A noseless seat might be perfect once you get used to it. I hope you use it for a while and give us an update once you've had a chance to get used to it.
thanks for the honest review. I tried a super lightweight carbon fibre seat without padding....went back to my old padded seat very quickly! My ass likes some padding, lol. cheers!
apart from the fact it was rubbish. I've used it for most of the year and no numb nuts ever... One ride and not following the instructions on height and how to adjust says more about the reviewer than the seat.
Pretty much the same concept at the Spider Flex seat. I tried one and it put excess pressure on my hands. It also did away with the control from having the saddle between the legs. I guess it did help air out the chamois though.
Just a silly question....Why would you install a product, not follow the instructions and then complain about that product ?? Lower the seat height....nah, I'll do it my way(lower seat height would have reduced weight on your shoulders and arms). Then when you got on your mountain bike with a lower seat height, you say it's ok. Less stable? consider adjusting your riding style. Some early eighties pro road bike frames were so flexible that they felt like they would break if you pedaled to hard or hit a bump(a very relaxed upper body and arms made them easy to ride versus the stiff alloy or carbon road frames of today which require no particular adaption in riding style). If you are going to test some thing, do it properly. This is meant to be constructive criticism so please don't take as me having a go...
Agreed. I got an Infinity saddle, didn't follow the instruction to lower the saddle and proceeded to do exactly what OzCycle did, namely tilt the saddle backwards trying to find a comfortable position, when I did find that comfortable position the nose was sticking up so high it was easy to hurt myself if I wasn't careful mounting and dismounting. Fast forward a few months and I finally contacted the manufacturer who guided me on proper setup (yes I had to lower it... duh) and problems solved!
Sorry about replying to an old comment, but doesn't lowering the seat that much drastically change your leg geometry? No longer will your leg be mostly extended when pedaling.
I use Fabric Scoop Shallow Race, it has a smart construction, no wood screws, just rails put in by a machine into the plastic base, smart. the sides of the saddle can flex some. when climbing I don't change position, also I use a different setup than most people do, and also I got bike with a modern geometry which most brands are still catching up on with few mm at the time each year. I use Pedaling Innovations catalyst pedals, and use mid foot position, the pedals give support for the arch, and I am more stable, and have an more efficient stroke, so does having my saddle tip above the BB. my new bike fits me great at 515 mm reach, I am 181cm. with al of this I don't have to move on the saddle or move upper body forward or back to get grip and be able to climb, so if it's not too technical I or steep I can just sit in normal position and pedal up. my bike is a Nicolai / Geometron G1 size Large. flic.kr/p/2igmv2q dropper sot all the way up: flic.kr/p/2i48PKZ
I am 5'1" and cannot use this saddle. I have never been able to find a comfortable position where I don't slide forward or have the wings cutting into the backs of my thighs if I adjust it to tilt backward. A real shame too...I was so looking forward to riding without my legs going numb and my pubic area just bruised from a short ride. If I ride, I can do about 26 mi in a day, then I have to recover from pinched nerves and such for about 2 weeks.
The perfect bicycle saddle was invented in 1866 by John Boultbee Brooks. The end of good bike seats began in the late 1960's and early 1970's when some idiot figured out how to make a saddle out of plastic. It's all downhill from there.
I wish he hadn't. It's difficult to ride without one after you get used to them, and they don't suit all bikes style wise. Now I choose a bike to go with my saddle!!
Looking at this video I would sense that you're feeling a certain detachment from the bike sitting on that seat.... that sturdy feeling of being connected to the bike appears to be lost. Thanks for the video this is what I'm going to stay clear of
I had a pudendal injury and tried every type of seat imaginable - problem is, no matter the design, you still end up with pressure points on your "sitz bone" area, and I had to give up regular bikes altogether. The good news is, I discovered the Elliptigo long stride bikes, and haven't looked back!
I would maybe try it on a city bike with an upright position. They surely have seat further to the back, the handlebar is higher and closer, so you can ride it like you are sitting on a stool with a weightless steerer in your hands.
Fantastic review well done 👍🏻 Love your club mates reaction at the end. Funny as you say no Perennial discomfort at all, though I used to get that because when pedalling I sometimes move forward in the saddle. Now ride with the gap which helps me a ton. Suspect the pro’s probably don’t move too much in the saddle, so might work better, but I move loads, so no good for me. 😁👍🏻
Zero perineum pressure and once you get used to it (the sweet spot I call it) the weight is where it should be - on the sit bones and wider wing secondary not on the prostate area !- so no need to move much. Bliss compared to the dinosaur seats trust me.
I didn't finish this video because it was getting on my nerves how in the first 5 minutes even though he recognized the manufacturer said to lower it he did damn near every other saddle adjustment besides lower it. Can someone comment below and let me know if it works better lowered or not.
Yes initially a bit lower and as you get used to it you raise it fractionally till u hit a sweet spot. Also a fraction forward till the balance is right so no numb arms AND NO NUMB NUTS ever !
WTB make Very Comfortable saddles I currently use a WTB Comfort Saddle on my Cannondale f29 with a SAVE Carbon Seat post - Very Comfortable and Cheap used a Selle Italia Flite Before and a SDG Saddle Before
Makes you wonder how little and what sort of testing took place before they decided to manufacture and sell this product. Consumers as Beta testers might be something you can get away with in the world of software development, but I don't see it working for hardware (at least until we all have 3D printers to spit these things out). 😁
How are you going to get your back side behind the seat in the event of having to brake ready hard? If you can't get back far enough, you run the risk of going over your handlebars!
Is it possible the Seat was assembled backwards and or Ridden Backwards ? It may need a slight covering ? This Saddle may have promise - only released on the Market before full development ?
I have seen this saddle or maybe similar before, but I knew it was absurd and it would not work and I knew it would problematic like you said, I never understood why this saddle exists. I have also seen SQ labs has a saddle that has inserts underneath it that make the saddle flex, I haven't tried those.
In 2024, there's a new Swiss company making a very similar saddle. Company's name is MORNERA, product name is DAIMON. Not sure how better or worse it is than this one.
Much respect for the time you put into your videos. I long ago raced US Cat. 2, toured extensively and was a die-hard commuter. I like to think I know something about how we interact with a bicycle. I think your test is flawed and really shows how where we plant our midsection and move it about is the foundation to how we manage to ride well. Here I'm pretty sure you've subjected your body to a fairly radical change in a very short period of time, and you really need to give yourself a hundred hours or so to start to acclimate to it. We who train learn to never make big changes in the bike configuration, but here you've thrown a spanner in the works, as they say, and could not possibly fairly evaluate it so quickly. Do you MAMILs (of which I'm now a member) have time trials ever? Might be interesting to train for a couple weeks for one and see what happens.
Dear OZ cycle I have been using this saddle for more than 3 months now, it is amazing so I would like to point out few issues here that were missed . 1- this is a Road/ TT only saddle thus using it on the MTB was completely pointless. Add to that that the look post already has the red elastomers which are the softest of the elastomers that come with the seat post ... add to that that the LOOk bike is actually an ISP bike , thus you woul most likely have needed to Cut the Seatpost a little to use it on it ... believe me I know this coz I have look 695RS which has the exact technology ... 2- this saddle needs a little time to getting used to it , you have spent years and years on other shapes of saddles and of course you have gotten used to them , thus trying it on a single ride is not ideal. 3- feeling like falling forward is usually resolved by bringing the saddle forward under the center of mass... you did the complete opposite ....and from what I notice from the video your seat post actually has a set back thus based on your bike fit you might have to change the seat post with an inline one in order to resolve the falling forward issue... once that is resolve then you could experiment with tilting it downward , but as in point 2 , it takes time to get used to it . I hope these are helpfull in letting you get to a right point ,, Plus i would recommend dropping the saddle a little more than the 1cm , maybe 2 or 3 just till you get used to it .. I Do bike fits using the velogicfit 3D motion system and I have fitted people on this saddle with no issues whatsoever
Thanx for the tips. Moving the position forward means getting a longer headstem. Also my position would be more over the bottom bracket which as you say is good for timetrials but not hill climbing. Lowering the seat means less leg extension which is not ideal for efficient use of leg muscles.
@@stevenleffanue a lil bit of correction here , 1- contrary to what most people think any rider has many good sitting positions on the bike depending on the item that make the bike , what you need to do it find the one that works best with this saddle , it is gonna take some time but you will find it eventually . 2- changing the stem or the seatpost to get the right seat position" could be on the books if you want to get the right sitting position for you however this is an issue that is independent of the saddle and it has to do with lots of other factors such as the rider himself and the bike and the flexability level.....etc . 3- all the issues that you mentioned in you kind reply are bike fit issues not a saddle issues thus please head to a bike fitter and he would easily adjust you position on the bike to a more suitable one where you would be able to judge it properly . 4- changing the head stem is not a "must " when taking the saddle forward not at all... it is only the case when an issue is caused by that change that you would address with a bike fitter. Short conclusive statements could sound best on any forum , however finding the root cause of you discomfort on this saddle is more critical and I would assess it independently of who makes the saddle.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I don't have this saddle but do use other noseless types and they are a completely different beast for proper adjustment compared to a standard one.
For me, first 2 months on any bike means a ton of screwing around with saddle height, tilt, fore and aft. Even more complicated when its a full suspension MTB.
Poor review. You did not lower the saddle as per instruction and when you felt like slipping you did not lower the saddle again. Instead you tilted it back and started to complain about how the edge was poking you in the thigh. The saddle is so different that it is probably wrong to think about the saddle in the same way as a traditional saddle. Redo the test and follow the instruction from the manufacturer. You did notice that it was better when you was on the mtb. However I think your complaint about being to static and the flex is right.
I was looking away at the 7:00 mark to take my chain off and he said mechanical cow and I just figured that was like Australia slang for a toll booth or something.
Rubbish - see Jason above - he is right and one ride for such a new sitting position is a joke. I'd never go back to a nut crusher type that's for sure
This type saddle isn't new. There was a earlier padded version here in the States that flexed up and down as you pedaled. It never really became popular.
When something remains virtually unchanged from inception.... .... there is a reason for it I ride a Brooks Carved Cambium that I find to be tolerable. A Bike seat isn’t nana’s frontroom Davenport.
Interesting saddle concept. Look up the old Bummer saddle. It was interesting but it didn't last long. Riding on a cushy sofa isn't how we ride a bike.
You're game Steve I'll give you that mate. Worth a go i suppose but I bet the boys in the group ride would give you some schtic😃. Looks like a gardening tool. Back in the old orbea i see. How the braking in the rain though?
Yeh,none of the locals were game enuf to give the seat a go. You're right about the brakes...gotta give a bit longer for the pads to grip the rim than disc brakes.
So you're saying there is no magic trick? Darn! It's almost like the sensation of falling forward is exactly why saddles have noses in the first place....and why perineum pressure is a huge issue to begin with for so many.
I think that it has same issue as you buy a new barefoot shoes. You have to adapt you feet and get used to it. If you make a big change in standard, it will be uncomfortable. No big change comes in a day or two.
Great channel. Just watched some videos from 2015, was about to comment about the lack of body mic. Fast forward to 2019 and you still don't have body mic. Why?
I think you are slipping forwards because your legs are not long enough. The seat was 5 mill higher to begin with, and the effective sit point looks to be farther back. This brings your arm angle to be sharper. Same reason you can't pedal fast I imagine, as it rotates the pelvis, and slips for every stroke. Which in turn made your seat loose it sounded like. Get it adjusted for your position/bike/body. If that doesn't work, maybe grip it up. Lycra is slippery, and it might have been made with jeans in mind. Edit: Can I have it, dying to try it. Have tried some different types in the past, which were super hard to dial in.
Love that.... "NOT WASTING A RIDE" lol
Shows you are the man with a plan!!!
My ride was wasted today because a twig got stuck in my cassette and I couldn't get it out.
Nice idea, but.....
You certainly gave it every chance.
Wish I had places to ride that nice where I live!
*Grandson lives out from town on 18 acres and the **Latest.Bike** is great on trails through the woods, on gravel driveway, and through the yard. Keeps them active. Thanks Easter Bunny*
Probable suites an upright universal comfort bike where you sit almost upright. Was considering the seat for MTB but realised it would be useless as on down hill/xc you need to get behind the seat at times and that would be a big hazard. Glad I watched this review.
Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of trying one of these. Won’t bother now.
Just an idea, but maybe instead of tilting the seat back, you could've tried moving it forwards and lower your seatpost a bit. To me it looks like you are supposed to position yourself a lot deeper on this saddle than on the traditional ones.
Unfortunately moving the seat forward and lowering the height results in less efficient leg muscle useage.
@@stevenleffanue but didn't see u try it just so the review was balanced.
@@stevenleffanue but maybe not in regards that saddle
Heny Rollins doing a bicycle saddle review in Victor Harbor ;) . I think your stem is too slammed for a seat like this.
thanks so much for such a great and thoughtful review. I am just recovering from robotic prostatectomy for prostate cancer and have had a lot of complications. During my recovery, I have built a gravel bike and looking forward to getting back on my bike is keeping me positive. I have perineal tenderness your excellent review saved me from buying this(I spin at 100rpm and like to ride on looser gravel so I want some control). I am leaning towards a ism saddle if my specialized toupe causes too much pain.
Keep up the great videos!
ISM is great. I've been using my ISM Adamo happily for years now.
Au contraire Steve... the seat puts zero nil zilch pressure on prostate. It takes about 4 rides and a bit of adjusting to find the sweet spot but when u do it's fantastic. Been riding it for 6 months or more and would never go back. The reviewer did it a big disservice because anything radical like this takes a bit of time and effort to adjust to. One ride is a joke just as getting on any new seat will cause pressure points due to the new position.
@@bruceingram6014 I must agree with you, Bruce. I suffered a seat-related injury from mtn biking. I soon realized that the only comfortable type of seat was actually a toilet seat (because it totally unweights the perineum and the tailbone, which are allowed to dangle freely). Unfortunately, there are no bike seats that faithfully resemble a toilet seat. However, The All Wings Falcon looks like it fits the bill for preventing PN and sacral nerve compression.
A caution to all readers: Once you’ve irritated or compressed those nerves, daily sitting becomes unbearable. Despite what your ‘biking bros’ tell you, the loss of erectile function is not the biggest worry, it’s searing pain coupled with abnormal function in your peri-anal area, perineum, and external genitalia. Ride the saddle that feels invisible and try standing whenever you can.
@@cebruthius Spongy Wonder, made in Canada, is even better. No more soreness, no chamois needed!
@@chriss2595Naw thanks, I can't deal with noseless designs.
Why didn’t u lower the seat post like the instructions said?
LOL...I was thinking that. Just TRY it :)
Exactly what I was thinking. When lowering the saddle the thigh doesn't move as far back under the seat, bingo, no more getting pushed forward. Yes, it's a compromise on the leg angle but if he had lowered the seat and moved it back and shortened the stem to keep the reach then again his leg wouldn't be pushing him forward as much. He even alluded to the push when he said the seat was digging into the back of his leg when it was tilted too far down in the back. Oh well. I'm not interested in the saddle but it looks interesting for different types of bikes.
Interesting concept for a seat but more importantly FANTASTIC and VERY informative, detailed, and thorough evaluation!
Cheers from Florida, USA
I mtb you need to get behind the seat at times. This seat prevents that.
Good point!
yeah, very good point
Exactly.
The manufacturers say exactly that but like everything about the report it has ignored what they advise. Why let the truth get in the way of a story eh?!
not with a dropper post 🙂 but that saddle is a bad idea.
I don't change seating position when climbing, but I need a normal saddle.
The instructions did say lower your saddle height a cm - maybe that would have helped with falling forward.
@@DaveCM I thin effectively it is farther back, so maybe not. You don't sit off of the back of your regular seat.
LOVE the end bit, peoples reactions to it .... GOLD !!!!
Interesting. For years I suffered with pain and urinary problems caused by the nose of the traditional saddle. I tried a variety of split nosed perches but still suffered eventually throwing the towel in on cycling for two years. I came across the Spiderflex seat which does look very similar to this All Wings jobby. The Spiderflex is padded so I gave it a whirl. After a number of trials I found my best position and, considering the alternative, continue to enjoy cycling once again. You are right in that bruising is a problem and that no hands riding is out but I cant complain - but I might.
ISM saddles are great - ismseat.com/
Honest effort man!. As riders of trad saddles most of us fail to realize that a saddle with a nose is important for bike control.
6:43 looks like it's pushed too far back. Move it fwd.
Just starting riding for exercise to get into a better shape than round. It's been 32 yrs since I rode a bicycle, so I thought my agony was due to that, but it was the nose of the seat. Oddly, I hadn't sat on the seat long enough for it to be perineum pain, it was the twins that ached. Someone suggested turning my seat backwards and the pain was gone instantly. So, I've been looking at seats like this because the benefits far outweigh the pain and lack of exercise.
Best man in the business, great honest review.
Thanks🤙
Great video you gave more than fair trial . Your points are so enlighting and usefull. Too bad the seat is not.
Try the new seat called the " V Seat" a try. This one might be more usefully functional! Thanks for information from usefull prosectives!
Thanks for suffering so others don't have to!
Try The Spongy Wonder!
An accurate representation if you ask me he should have started by lowering the seat. Sliding forward and too much weight on the hands tells me the saddle is too high.
His or mine?
@@kennethstreet7868 hi Kenneth - did u mean inaccurate ?
When all your friends were looking at the seat it reminded me of a scene from the movie "The Gods must be Crazy" when the natives discovered a coke-cola bottle. Your one friend cracked me up when he said "What is it", lol. At any rate, thanks for the informative and well thought out review. Personally, I'll be sticking with my "Specialized Power" saddle.
Specialized Power Arc is great!
Like you say, it's a problem there is only on position.
And it looks like it needs to be done in a different material to be comfortable.
For a slow city-type rider, it might be ok ?
Should have tried it lowered, that sliding forward sensation without a nose makes me think you've got your seat high. Also indicated by having too much weight on your hands.
also if he feels he's slipping forward he should move the seat forward not backward
Whatever weight you have must be supported. So the basic paradigm is ... take pressure off somewhere and it will increase somewhere else.
Very thorough review of this "saddle", as per usual. By the way, patent attorneys make a lot of money from people who have ridiculous ideas and the money to back them up. I'm all for trying new things, but like the wheel, some things just can't be improved upon.
Thank you for the honest review. One thing no one mentions is the body position for optimizing the use of these noseless. I have tried a few and found the same results, slipping forward and no way to slide your body fore and aft as I do all day long using different pedal strokes. So no surprises for road bike positions. I have 8 bikes in my stable (don't own a car) have each one set up differently so I am not in the same body position, I also have 10 makers of shorts and soon will be making my own, so the seams and "friction" layer positions change day to day. (remember when they were thin friction layer NOT padding...WTF@@*&^!!! ).
So my city bikes are set way up for almost a straight back (perpendicular to the road); this means the slipping forward may not be a problem, but now there will much greater body weight on the saddle and need some comfort there. And (as you discovered) pinch points that should not be pressing or rubbing all around the contact points, even though there are much less contact and rubbing points on these saddles. Saddles continue to be a problem for full time cyclists, I will try the "Spongy Wonder" saddle next, but may have to add a stand up bike like the Eliptigo or Street Strider to the stable. 10,000 (16,000K) miles a year is just too much saddle time.
I may also try an Electra crank forward bike for a radical change in seat/body position, these lay back seat tube angles I have used before are a very big change from the 73 degree road bikes; big problem is pedal stoke is not natural and climbing steep hills dangerous to the knees, so will have to add a motor for climbing. //// trying to survive without a car today //// :) Any thoughts? I am 66 years old, a serious cyclist for 56 years, raced pro in the 80s.
Thanks for putting your time and effort to make this review. The design is drastically new, who know where it can go from where it is now.
I purchased the Infinity saddle a couple of years ago. This is the saddle for the rest of my life. Discomfort a thing of the past. Give it a try, they had a return policy when I purchased mine,
Remove the points that dig in on the wings and add a small nose that is not really connected to the rear wings. This way it is like a conventional saddle but it would have a big Y open section to protect the nerves. That is the only way I could see this working any better. Maybe even make it so you could move the nose forward and back, and the wings in and out?
Cool to see innovation, but there’s a reason why virtually all saddles are the same shape and this hasn’t changed much for decades
@Finna Sprang So it isn't a fact that saddle design hasn't changed for decades?
More than a century.
@@discbrakefan No, it just isn't a fact that it's absolutely the only good option, we just haven't found anything better yet. One thing I will say though, there's no alternative that's been marketed that ever did unsettle the industry.
You're right, all racing saddles are the same shape. The only real big saddle innovation which has actually worked is the ISM split nose design, which isn't actually that much of a change.
I agree, functionality forces a certain similarity into design, I’m sure it has applications but in the grand scheme it’s like reinventing the wheel
I figured you should lower it a bit and move it forward when you started feeling too much weight at the start. Give it another go with the suggestions people have offered before retiring it.
If you’d dropped Saddle by 10mm, as they said, may be that would’ve neutralised forward moment and enabled sitting on level Saddle?
Tried it,was a little more comfortable but lost leg muscle efficiency.
I liked to see your smiling face after going back to the regular seat 👍
Haha. Its not a put on face Cesar beleive me. I just couldnt get comfy with that seat...up,down,tilted or otherwise.
@@stevenleffanue Mate - one ride... not following instructions...ridiculous... takes at least 3 -4 rides for sit bones to readjust and a bit of playing round but once you hit the sweet spot it is great.
You put on the saddle backwards. Flip it over and try again.
czcams.com/video/wQdL98_zUDU/video.html
@@charlie271210 Thanks Charlie.
Oz, that's a rare saddle. Thanks for the info and review. 👍
We use the nose of the seat for bike control a lot more than is obvious. We also change positions on the seat a lot, and the nose of the seat serves as a physical reference point. Noseless seats are not new either, I saw variations of it in the '90s and they eventually disappeared from the market because they don't work as well as cyclists would like.
Good in depth review thank you. In my opinion the seat might be good and comfortable for street riding but I think for off-road riding I would want the nose there for a little bit of control. But then again it might be like anything else I'm just comfortable with a nosed seat. A noseless seat might be perfect once you get used to it. I hope you use it for a while and give us an update once you've had a chance to get used to it.
thanks for the honest review. I tried a super lightweight carbon fibre seat without padding....went back to my old padded seat very quickly! My ass likes some padding, lol. cheers!
Haha. Yeah I got one of those too Jim it now sits on the shelf collecting dust.
Blimey, I didn't realise Australia ever got that cold.
it doesn't mate, hes jut gone soft from wearing all the lycra
$214! Lot of money for a funny seat. Great review.
apart from the fact it was rubbish. I've used it for most of the year and no numb nuts ever... One ride and not following the instructions on height and how to adjust says more about the reviewer than the seat.
Pretty much the same concept at the Spider Flex seat. I tried one and it put excess pressure on my hands. It also did away with the control from having the saddle between the legs. I guess it did help air out the chamois though.
Just a silly question....Why would you install a product, not follow the instructions and then complain about that product ?? Lower the seat height....nah, I'll do it my way(lower seat height would have reduced weight on your shoulders and arms). Then when you got on your mountain bike with a lower seat height, you say it's ok.
Less stable? consider adjusting your riding style. Some early eighties pro road bike frames were so flexible that they felt like they would break if you pedaled to hard or hit a bump(a very relaxed upper body and arms made them easy to ride versus the stiff alloy or carbon road frames of today which require no particular adaption in riding style). If you are going to test some thing, do it properly.
This is meant to be constructive criticism so please don't take as me having a go...
Agreed. I got an Infinity saddle, didn't follow the instruction to lower the saddle and proceeded to do exactly what OzCycle did, namely tilt the saddle backwards trying to find a comfortable position, when I did find that comfortable position the nose was sticking up so high it was easy to hurt myself if I wasn't careful mounting and dismounting. Fast forward a few months and I finally contacted the manufacturer who guided me on proper setup (yes I had to lower it... duh) and problems solved!
Sorry about replying to an old comment, but doesn't lowering the seat that much drastically change your leg geometry? No longer will your leg be mostly extended when pedaling.
I use Fabric Scoop Shallow Race, it has a smart construction, no wood screws, just rails put in by a machine into the plastic base, smart.
the sides of the saddle can flex some.
when climbing I don't change position, also I use a different setup than most people do, and also I got bike with a modern geometry which most brands are still catching up on with few mm at the time each year.
I use Pedaling Innovations catalyst pedals, and use mid foot position, the pedals give support for the arch, and I am more stable, and have an more efficient stroke, so does having my saddle tip above the BB.
my new bike fits me great at 515 mm reach, I am 181cm.
with al of this I don't have to move on the saddle or move upper body forward or back to get grip and be able to climb, so if it's not too technical I or steep I can just sit in normal position and pedal up.
my bike is a Nicolai / Geometron G1 size Large.
flic.kr/p/2igmv2q
dropper sot all the way up: flic.kr/p/2i48PKZ
I am 5'1" and cannot use this saddle. I have never been able to find a comfortable position where I don't slide forward or have the wings cutting into the backs of my thighs if I adjust it to tilt backward. A real shame too...I was so looking forward to riding without my legs going numb and my pubic area just bruised from a short ride. If I ride, I can do about 26 mi in a day, then I have to recover from pinched nerves and such for about 2 weeks.
I can see those saddles flying out the door
and into a big skip bin,along with the patent papers.
If you lower the sadle and cycle along with more bent legs I can Imagine it would work better.
Dude I still remember the first time I fell off the bike because I forgot I got clipless pedals
The perfect bicycle saddle was invented in 1866 by John Boultbee Brooks. The end of good bike seats began in the late 1960's and early 1970's when some idiot figured out how to make a saddle out of plastic. It's all downhill from there.
I wish he hadn't. It's difficult to ride without one after you get used to them, and they don't suit all bikes style wise. Now I choose a bike to go with my saddle!!
Keep using it. They will improve it over time with your feedback.
Nice review. Enjoyable and thorough! I don’t think I need to ride on one, however. I like my current seat.
Looking at this video I would sense that you're feeling a certain detachment from the bike sitting on that seat.... that sturdy feeling of being connected to the bike appears to be lost.
Thanks for the video this is what I'm going to stay clear of
I had a pudendal injury and tried every type of seat imaginable - problem is, no matter the design, you still end up with pressure points on your "sitz bone" area, and I had to give up regular bikes altogether. The good news is, I discovered the Elliptigo long stride bikes, and haven't looked back!
Jack Rabbit did you try the infinity seat? What did you think of it if so?
I would maybe try it on a city bike with an upright position. They surely have seat further to the back, the handlebar is higher and closer, so you can ride it like you are sitting on a stool with a weightless steerer in your hands.
Road bike with down in the drops position. I would like to see a test ride in upright position. Nice tour of rural Australia though.
That seat reminds me of the Spongy Wonder saddle. Although it looks a LOT more comfortable than this All Wings saddle.
I can't imagine how this is supposed to work. The pressure is directly on the hamstring and glute muscles. You can't ride on the muscles you're using.
Great review, 👍 but I won't be looking at that in the near future
Fantastic review well done 👍🏻 Love your club mates reaction at the end. Funny as you say no Perennial discomfort at all, though I used to get that because when pedalling I sometimes move forward in the saddle. Now ride with the gap which helps me a ton. Suspect the pro’s probably don’t move too much in the saddle, so might work better, but I move loads, so no good for me. 😁👍🏻
Zero perineum pressure and once you get used to it (the sweet spot I call it) the weight is where it should be - on the sit bones and wider wing secondary not on the prostate area !- so no need to move much. Bliss compared to the dinosaur seats trust me.
I didn't finish this video because it was getting on my nerves how in the first 5 minutes even though he recognized the manufacturer said to lower it he did damn near every other saddle adjustment besides lower it. Can someone comment below and let me know if it works better lowered or not.
Yes initially a bit lower and as you get used to it you raise it fractionally till u hit a sweet spot. Also a fraction forward till the balance is right so no numb arms AND NO NUMB NUTS ever !
That’s why the recommendation to lower the seat post a cm
his mountain bike was lower height.
Thanks for good review:)
WTB make Very Comfortable saddles
I currently use a WTB Comfort Saddle on my Cannondale f29 with a SAVE Carbon Seat post - Very Comfortable and Cheap
used a Selle Italia Flite Before and a SDG Saddle Before
My only concern about this saddle is you don't have sitting variations compared to the traditional one.
Who designed that seat? I appreciate the concept but dang it’s rough around the edges ergonomically
Makes you wonder how little and what sort of testing took place before they decided to manufacture and sell this product. Consumers as Beta testers might be something you can get away with in the world of software development, but I don't see it working for hardware (at least until we all have 3D printers to spit these things out). 😁
How are you going to get your back side behind the seat in the event of having to brake ready hard? If you can't get back far enough, you run the risk of going over your handlebars!
Is it possible the Seat was assembled backwards and or Ridden Backwards ? It may need a slight covering ? This Saddle may have promise - only released on the Market before full development ?
Thanks for all the tips!!
I have seen this saddle or maybe similar before, but I knew it was absurd and it would not work and I knew it would problematic like you said, I never understood why this saddle exists.
I have also seen SQ labs has a saddle that has inserts underneath it that make the saddle flex, I haven't tried those.
Maybe test ride 160km and feel any different? much comfortable?
Why don't seats extended up for chest support
Spice girl style....
In 2024, there's a new Swiss company making a very similar saddle. Company's name is MORNERA, product name is DAIMON. Not sure how better or worse it is than this one.
Great review, informative etc etc. Small correction. Perineal. We're dealing with anatomy here not poorly potted plants..
When I type in 'Pereneal' auto correct comes up with "perenial" 😂
Perineal, ie related to the perineum.
@@stevenleffanue Ah.. My faith is restored! Top work, great hearing back from ya!
Much respect for the time you put into your videos.
I long ago raced US Cat. 2, toured extensively and was a die-hard commuter. I like to think I know something about how we interact with a bicycle. I think your test is flawed and really shows how where we plant our midsection and move it about is the foundation to how we manage to ride well. Here I'm pretty sure you've subjected your body to a fairly radical change in a very short period of time, and you really need to give yourself a hundred hours or so to start to acclimate to it.
We who train learn to never make big changes in the bike configuration, but here you've thrown a spanner in the works, as they say, and could not possibly fairly evaluate it so quickly.
Do you MAMILs (of which I'm now a member) have time trials ever? Might be interesting to train for a couple weeks for one and see what happens.
Excellent video. Very informative. Would love to see you do a review of the “Dual Action Seat”. Have you tried it?
Dear OZ cycle
I have been using this saddle for more than 3 months now, it is amazing so I would like to point out few issues here that were missed .
1- this is a Road/ TT only saddle thus using it on the MTB was completely pointless. Add to that that the look post already has the red elastomers which are the softest of the elastomers that come with the seat post ... add to that that the LOOk bike is actually an ISP bike , thus you woul most likely have needed to Cut the Seatpost a little to use it on it ... believe me I know this coz I have look 695RS which has the exact technology ...
2- this saddle needs a little time to getting used to it , you have spent years and years on other shapes of saddles and of course you have gotten used to them , thus trying it on a single ride is not ideal.
3- feeling like falling forward is usually resolved by bringing the saddle forward under the center of mass... you did the complete opposite ....and from what I notice from the video your seat post actually has a set back thus based on your bike fit you might have to change the seat post with an inline one in order to resolve the falling forward issue... once that is resolve then you could experiment with tilting it downward , but as in point 2 , it takes time to get used to it .
I hope these are helpfull in letting you get to a right point ,, Plus i would recommend dropping the saddle a little more than the 1cm , maybe 2 or 3 just till you get used to it ..
I Do bike fits using the velogicfit 3D motion system and I have fitted people on this saddle with no issues whatsoever
Thanx for the tips. Moving the position forward means getting a longer headstem. Also my position would be more over the bottom bracket which as you say is good for timetrials but not hill climbing.
Lowering the seat means less leg extension which is not ideal for efficient use of leg muscles.
@@stevenleffanue a lil bit of correction here ,
1- contrary to what most people think any rider has many good sitting positions on the bike depending on the item that make the bike , what you need to do it find the one that works best with this saddle , it is gonna take some time but you will find it eventually .
2- changing the stem or the seatpost to get the right seat position" could be on the books if you want to get the right sitting position for you however this is an issue that is independent of the saddle and it has to do with lots of other factors such as the rider himself and the bike and the flexability level.....etc .
3- all the issues that you mentioned in you kind reply are bike fit issues not a saddle issues thus please head to a bike fitter and he would easily adjust you position on the bike to a more suitable one where you would be able to judge it properly .
4- changing the head stem is not a "must " when taking the saddle forward not at all... it is only the case when an issue is caused by that change that you would address with a bike fitter.
Short conclusive statements could sound best on any forum , however finding the root cause of you discomfort on this saddle is more critical and I would assess it independently of who makes the saddle.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I don't have this saddle but do use other noseless types and they are a completely different beast for proper adjustment compared to a standard one.
What if you were to take the seat off and install it backwards? Might work.
If you're falling off the front why would you move the seat further back??? Then it feels worse so you move it even further back???
I tilted it back but kept the same seat to stem length.
Thanks for trying something radically different.
Paul McCartney invented Wings, but he sat on filing for patents.
Perineal
For me, first 2 months on any bike means a ton of screwing around with saddle height, tilt, fore and aft. Even more complicated when its a full suspension MTB.
Poor review. You did not lower the saddle as per instruction and when you felt like slipping you did not lower the saddle again. Instead you tilted it back and started to complain about how the edge was poking you in the thigh. The saddle is so different that it is probably wrong to think about the saddle in the same way as a traditional saddle. Redo the test and follow the instruction from the manufacturer. You did notice that it was better when you was on the mtb. However I think your complaint about being to static and the flex is right.
As the old saying goes " If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
For all the bikers getting damaged prostates, IT IS BROKE and this fixes it !
with that mindset we would all still be riding bikes with steel rims, fixed gears and rod brakes.
I was looking away at the 7:00 mark to take my chain off and he said mechanical cow and I just figured that was like Australia slang for a toll booth or something.
Would your body weight rest more on the seat if it was adjusted more forward?
now combine the two and and rollers forward in stead. then you have a success. it will look loke a trad saddle, but be better.
Great review. Thank you 😊
Rubbish - see Jason above - he is right and one ride for such a new sitting position is a joke. I'd never go back to a nut crusher type that's for sure
This type saddle isn't new. There was a earlier padded version here in the States that flexed up and down as you pedaled. It never really became popular.
When something remains virtually unchanged from inception....
.... there is a reason for it
I ride a Brooks Carved Cambium that I find to be tolerable.
A Bike seat isn’t nana’s frontroom Davenport.
Interesting attempt at a saddle. I will stick with my beloved ISM Adamo noseless saddles for now.
Interesting saddle concept. Look up the old Bummer saddle. It was interesting but it didn't last long. Riding on a cushy sofa isn't how we ride a bike.
Looked it up...haha,there are other crazy lookn seats which came up too.
Maybe give it a try on your TT bike or aero position?
Where can I purchase/order one?
You dont want to get your teds trapped in that!
You're game Steve I'll give you that mate. Worth a go i suppose but I bet the boys in the group ride would give you some schtic😃. Looks like a gardening tool. Back in the old orbea i see. How the braking in the rain though?
Yeh,none of the locals were game enuf to give the seat a go. You're right about the brakes...gotta give a bit longer for the pads to grip the rim than disc brakes.
So you're saying there is no magic trick? Darn! It's almost like the sensation of falling forward is exactly why saddles have noses in the first place....and why perineum pressure is a huge issue to begin with for so many.
Might work better on the home trainer?
I think that it has same issue as you buy a new barefoot shoes. You have to adapt you feet and get used to it. If you make a big change in standard, it will be uncomfortable. No big change comes in a day or two.
Great channel. Just watched some videos from 2015, was about to comment about the lack of body mic. Fast forward to 2019 and you still don't have body mic. Why?
Cant find a mic. that goes with Samsung Note 5 ?
I think you are slipping forwards because your legs are not long enough. The seat was 5 mill higher to begin with, and the effective sit point looks to be farther back. This brings your arm angle to be sharper. Same reason you can't pedal fast I imagine, as it rotates the pelvis, and slips for every stroke. Which in turn made your seat loose it sounded like. Get it adjusted for your position/bike/body. If that doesn't work, maybe grip it up. Lycra is slippery, and it might have been made with jeans in mind.
Edit: Can I have it, dying to try it. Have tried some different types in the past, which were super hard to dial in.