I am Orthodox. There is a special place in my heart for my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters, and I continually pray for them and for the traditional Catholic theology for which their church has so long stood upon, as it is far better than the theology coming from Rome today. Even my own church has skeletons in its closet. We all need prayer, the whole church needs prayer.
I think you’ll see in your lifetime Eastern Orthodox return to the Catholic Church as they see the consequence and full understanding of a heavenly and earthly hierarchy and how the battle against the darkness is in the Catholic Church because that is the prize and it will look as if all hope is lost for the church before it resurrects. The argument against the Catholic Church is in fact the evidence if it’s authority and this is exactly why it has become the center of the war here on earth. May you return to Her and you are in my prayers
Blessing and peace to you. I had a Greek Orthodox father and an Irish Catholic mother. Truly, the best of both worlds. As Jesus loves you I love you. Pray for me as I will pray for you. Timothy Constatine Fronimos
I am Catholic. There is a special place in my heart for my Orthodox brothers and sisters. I cannot explain the love I feel for them in spite of some differences.
@@BryanKirchRome would benefit all of God’s sheep if it came back to Orthodoxy. Rome changed Gods hospital to fit our needs, but we need to submit to God and submit to what he needs from us. May we please God and may his will be done
Vatican II was the final nail in the coffin. The true beginning of the end of Christian Europe happened when the Kings and Queens of Christendom fell after WWI.
The people interviewed here are without doubt very optimistic of the Council and describe them in glowing terms. Certainly I was born long after the Council was concluded, and definitely the world that I have come into is the one that the Council has certainly effected. Did the Council Fathers ever thought that one day Catholics would become a minority in most countries in Europe, and the nones (those without religious affiliations) would be rising. I wonder if their optimistic attitude of a world where the name of God means peace and goodwill to all mankind has become the reality of today. Looking and listening at them, I could not but notice the stark contrast of what a regular Catholic today. In America, even majority of Catholics don’t believe in Holy Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ.
It takes decades after any Council for things to settle. Pope John said he had no specific aim in calling the Council, but to let in some fresh air, and to leave it to the Holy Spirit. We should do the same and totally trust that God is guiding His Church. +
@@wendyfield7708 The effects of the Council have long been settled. It has been decades since the Council was called and we are feeling the effects of it today for sure. Catholic numbers are dwindling and we practise a watered-down Protestantized mass. The 2nd Vatican Council was terrible for Catholics all around the world and the faith as a whole.
I think perhaps the bigger issue is the implementation/execution of Vatican II. Lots of people make changes to their liturgy and space under the premise that "Vatican II said so", when in fact it did not.
Thank you. I was living and working in Rome at this time. I think this is a good balanced summary of Vatican 2. I am a lay person, received into the Catholic Church in 1958, and am now 88. I feel that the further away we get in time from this, the more inaccurate become many commentators, both clergy and laity, who were born often decades later. So I am grateful for this, as I remember it all well, and was one who kept vigil with large numbers as Pope John was dying. I later worked in the Vatican during Paul VI’s time, as a translator, and at the time when he he was stabbed in the Philippines. Paul Vi was the first Pope to open up travel abroad for the Pontiff. Pray for the Church. + When was this documentary made, please?
PaulVI was stabbed in the Philippines? I never knew that. I also learned recently that PiusX11 was shot the bullet hit his crucifix. He gave that Crucifix to Bishop Fulton Sheen I don't know who has it now.
@@janettedavis6627 No, it was John Paul II who was shot in the Piazza. He immediately forgave his assassin and later visited him in prison. One bullet did hit something which saved him, but others got him in non fatal places. Paul VI in the Philippines was stabbed by a lay person dressed as a priest, who had managed to get into the inner circle at a large public Mass there. I think only his hand was damaged as people around him grabbed the man immediately.
Vatican II was forced upon the Church and it was a necessary move. Before that Europe was drenched in blood in the 30 Years' War between Protestants and Catholic in the name of our Peaceful God. Before that was the Crusaders sack of Eastern Roman Church at Constantinople. This weakened it so much and allowed muslims to take over. These discussion of pro and anti Vatican II can have serious consequences but this is just normal human affairs. It's an ongoing tragedy.
@@janettedavis6627 Yes, Pope Paul VI was almost stabbed in the Philippines. I was a newspaper reporter at the airport, but I could not see what was happening at the reception line, so I asked some of the French reporters to help me climb up to the platform where they were standing. That was when it happened; so I missed it. However, I learned that President Marcos was able to parry the attack and saved the Pope from being stabbed. Good old Dictator Marcos was always the hero in every occasion. Because I did not see it, I did not write about it. There were other events that the Pope attended to, which I saw and wrote about.
I was born after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and realize now with great sadness how much my generation was cheated of our proper Catholic heritage.
It is worth noting that Vatican 2 took place when Communism, then the archenemy of Catholicism, was in full global flood. And they never mentioned it. Not once. Tells you all you need to know.
That's funny because the Archbishop of Krakow Cardinal Wojtyła who was at the council later became Pope John Paul II, who worked with Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to bring down the Iron Curtain.
When naivety and optimism mix, things can get chaotic pretty quickly. For a church that had grown so old, it is difficult to understand how the ideologies of so many council personalities could have been so juvenile.
Not at all juvenile. It was geniusly crafted from the begining, when the masons had enough of their members in positions of power. It was a struggle where the evil guys won. The result was heterodoxy, modernism, liberalism and liturgical chaos. You can read "Infiltration" by Dr. T. Marshall or at least find the commentary on it on ytube.
The fruits of the council is enough to worry all people of the world. The Third Secret of Fatima is all about this council if not something even worse. The prophecies of Our Lady of Good Success in Quito, Ecuador from 400 years ago can explain the past 60-years from this event.
It would not surprise me if Pope Francis called a Vatican Council III especially in the light of recent church scandals , falling vocations , the demand for a review of celibacy , the role of women and an increasing input from the laity in church affairs .
Have you been to Poland? Italy? Philippines? Brazil? Spain? The Churches are hardly empty. Heck, even Indonesia and Malaysia where catholicism is minority, Churches are packed. So what the heck are you talking about?
At the end they said that the tridentine period is over, that doesnt aged well. the tridentine rite, is still alive, and while hundreds of churches are closcing every year, the churches that follow the traditional mass are the only ones that are growing in the western world.
I grew up in the immediate aftermath of this Council, and can only attest to how my family responded to it. My mother firmly believes that it was a positive, feeling that changes allowed her to be more a participant in her faith, rather than a spectator. The Mass became warmer and more inclusive. We recently attended a pre-Vatican II Mass, and she recognized it, remembered most of it. But shared once was enough. She joked pre Vatican II hardliners would have made Jesus give the Sermon on the Mount in Latin. But she explained, too, that my network of friends in the 70s and 80s wouldn’t have been possible before Vatican II. She wasn’t allowed to have Protestant friends, or Jewish friends. If she even looked at the Lutheran church on Main Street she got detention in school. My mother truly believes Jesus would have approved of this Council.
So, why did after the II Vatican Council the Church was hit with heresy, apostasy, priests that don't want to wear liturgical garments, loud music often inapropriate for Mass, imodesty on clothing on the people that watch Mass (btw, imodesty is a sin, specially in Church)? It didn't invite people in. It threw people out.
@@renanromanov6466 Human sinfulness iscwhy. Disobedience to what Vatican II was actually asking, priests who did not bother to study the decisions, and who went against Pope Paul’s HUMANAE VITAE Encyclical instead of explaining it to the people, etc. etc.+
@@wendyfield7708 The Vatican II was a remedy that didn't work. And we have been trying to use it since 1965. If this was medicine, it have been discarted ages ago. Even St. Paul VI said that "The smoke of the Devil has entered by the windows of the Church" after he saw the results of the Council. Again: It didn't invite people in. It threw people out.
@@renanromanov6466 Heresy, apostasy, liturgical abuses, immodesty, etc. are evil. Our Lord did not promise that the gates of hell will not enter the Church, just that evil will not prevail. And I believe Him.
i am tired of hearing how wonderful the Council was, and how great everything is now, and how horrible everything would be now, had it not been for the salvific Council. And how stupid everything was before Vatican II. They can say wnatever they want. The Church I grew up in is gone. dead. and there is not much left. The effects of the Council were destructive. As were the 60s in general, by the end of the decade.
A consideration of Vatican II using the concepts of genus and species. Without getting into the historical background, inner workings and doctrinal details of the Vatican II documents and rather relying on what most Catholics know about it the following analogy I think is most revealing: Aristotle says that the natural way of learning and coming to know things is from the generic to the more specific. Just as when we see something moving in the distance we first identify it as a body and then as it moves closer an animal and even closer a man and finally as this particular person Socrates. Now it needs to be understood that there is a difference between our knowledge of a thing and the thing itself. Our knowledge is always more generic than the thing itself existing in reality which is very specific. If someone were to give the definition of the species of a thing instead of giving the definition of the genus of that thing one would give a more precise and fuller account of the thing. In other words the more specific our knowledge becomes of something the closer our knowledge resembles the thing. The truer our knowledge is, in the sense of having more truth - adeguatio res et intellectus. This is the natural way man comes to know. To try to move in the opposite direction is unatural and against human nature. To try to forget what one already KNOWS about something in order to know it more generically is an act of violence against oneself. It would entail force that goes against one's own nature. Now what is more generic and less specific is more universal. Whereas as what is more specific is more exclusive. In the same way when one says the word animal it can apply to many things. Where when one says man it excludes many things and applies to just one type of animal. Now things that exist in reality ARE NOT generic they are specific. The Church founded by Our Lord is a real existing reality. It is something specific with its own essential elements and properties. Now the Councils, pronouncements and doctrines through the ages became more and more specific. The Church's awareness of itself approached more and more the reality of its own being. It is impossible to move in the other direction. In other words it is impossible to move from a specific knowledge to a more general confused knowledge. A generic knowledge of anything is always more confused than a specific one, just as knowing something only in so far as it is an animal is more confused than knowing it specifically: a man. Instead our knowledge specifies as we gain acquantaince and experience of a thing. This should.not be confused with the knowledge particular persons had of the Church. Ofcourse the apostles and early Christians had a very specific knowledge of the Church. However the Church's formulated doctrine was not as specific. Throughout the centuries this doctrine became better formulated and more specific. This was neccesary especially to rule out heresy and error. A more generic knowledge on the other hand is more open to heresy and error. Now, in order for Vatican II to be less divisive, open to non Catholics and ALSO IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE CONSENSUS AMONGST THE COUNCIL FATHERS, THE COUNCIL HAD TO REVERSE THE NATURAL PROCEDURE AND PROCLAIM SOMETHING MORE GENERIC THAN PREVIOUS COUNCILS. Now one could argue that the council taught no error. Entering into this debate is not easy and not for the most of us. However knowing that the council purposefully decided to be less specific and more generic is known by all of us. Can we say that a generic knowlwdge of a thing is deficient compared to a fuller specific knowlwdge of a thing? Trying to go against oneself and forget what one once knew creates the impression that one must have been wrong once upon a time. Because why else would one try to forget what once knew? Especially if what one once knew one used to think was valuable and true, a treasure to be safeguarded. How many people do we know who have used Vatican II to look back and interpret older Councils? Anything more specific than the Council is frowned upon as superfluous and outdated. But does truth age? Never the less can we blame them for acquiring this habit when this is a natural consequence of artificially regressing and not progressing in knowledge? Of trying to be less specific and more generic. Ask any good attorney or advocate; the truth is in the details. Become less specific and you loose the case. Unless one is hiding something. In conclusion: In any art, science, law, doctrine, description or definition the more specific take precedence over any less specific alternative of it.
@@Stop_Elitists_Wars Had to be since not everyone undertsands genus and species and how these differ to the actual real thing. Not everyone has the patience to understand what I wrote.
council of Trent was counter-reformation. It condemns the heresies of Luther. Sadly, Vat2 is when we strip the Mother Church of its tradition, its beauty, and its magnificence. In this new mass, the heresies of reformation and communism (equality, fraternity, liberty) deepened its fangs to the Holy Mother Church.
A meeting or in this case Council, without clear stated objectives is doomed to meander about and create divisive ideas and confusion! Has anyone in corporate or government employ ever participated in a grand meeting without clearly stated goals or objectives? Nope!
The one event that has destroyed the Roman Catholic Church, Vatican II, I’m an old alter boy and I hardly recognize the Mass any more! The Priest should pray with us not at us, terrible music, alter girls? Communion in the hand continues, on and on. Piety gone! God help us! Leaving is my only option. ✝️
None of that MATTERS!!!! Stop trying to be RELIGIOUS, and become SPIRITUAL. The Lord is in you, you can find him inside of you, in the homeless man sitting on the corner asking for change. You can find in the baby, taking their first breath. In the dying man, as he takes his last. “MAN” should not be the authority on how we MUST connect, praise, worship, and venerate our Lord. How we do those, is OUR choice. Its our relationship, not anyone elses.
@@matthewharjo7512 Christ himself said not to give creedence to the Hypocrits on the street corner. Rather we are called to be well kept arbiters of the faith; clean, composed, and well written. "Not one iota of the Law shall perish." This is what the Lord said. Spirituality placates the emotions and alludes the senses. Religion adds reason to spirituality and makes it logical. Our Lord, Jesus and the Apostles were masters of Religion not a ragtag group of fishermen that were "just trying to feel it out" but Rabbis well versed in the Liturgical stylings of their age and very well respected among their Jewish peers. The bottom line is that not many priests in the modern era have really studied the Law nor have they examined the current Constitution of the Mass and enforcement of the proper rubrics have been neglected by the bishops largely in part due to incredulous scandals and poor execution post Vatican II. I hope this brief synopsis finds you well and reveals a certain and more definitive truth that aids you in your faith.
I hope the TLM returns as the true mass of the Catholic Church. As a person who in his 20, I experience both the TLM and the new mass and realized I was cheated as catholic.
@@laddy2737 There is no way to properly "implement" a Protestantized liturgy. Perhaps you should read many of the things Annibale Bugnini actually said about his intentions. Not to mention, we were lied to when they told us they "changed" the Mass. They knew that they colud not change it because it was forbidden. So they made up an entirely new "Mass" in a confenece room. No thanks. I am Catholic and will stick with the Catholic Mass.
How were you cheated when Christ is present in both? I’ve attended masses in 6 different languages, and many in Latin. It’s not really the language that matters. Proper worship in any language is pleasing to God.
Martinus Mahendra " The opening of Pandora Box, zappy, and boom!! Hurricane of heresies entering The Church. " That began more than 1500 years ago with Roman Emperor Constantine when he instituted his theocracy which began the slow process of evolving into the catastrophe that we see today. Not once in the entirety of the writings of the Apostles does the word Catholic appear in connection with the Christian church. Christian is the term that derived from Antioch, not Catholic or "Universal". The term has no relevance with regard to the Church defined by Christ through the apostles. It gains relevance only under Theodosius who finally attempts a universal church as a means of holding a collapsing Rome together and stopping fighting between pagans and Christians. Christ's church was founded on all of the apostles and all of the prophets, Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:19-20), the Rock that Yahweh laid in Zion (Isaiah 28:16), the Rock that Peter spoke of (Acts 4:10-12).
It was geniusly crafted and executed by masons when they had enough of their members in positions of power. It was maliciously intended. Dr. T. Marshall traces the history and development in some detail in his book "Infiltration." You might want to read it or see the commentary on ytube.
If I was the Pope,I would call another Vatican Council(3).There has been many Issues and Challenges in the Catholic Church,since Vatican Council 2.They need sorting out.❤️🙏🏻❤️.
I know Vatican II is controversial. Let me give you another POV, those who think it broke the faith. Before Vatican II, the church was seen as a fortress. Hard to get into, unapproachable. Protestants & other denominations were not welcomed in mass. Nor could they follow what was going on. I was raised Protestant and started attending mass at a Benedictine abbey in adulthood. I could BECAUSE of Vatican II. Now, I’m Catholic, on my own volition learned all the prayers in Latin. (It was actually the rosary that originally drew me to mass). There’s others like me as well. So in that sense, it did open to the doors to new members. Just food for thought. ❤
My grandmother wasn’t catholic and she wasn’t allowed to marry my grandfather in the Catholic Church. This is very true how unapproachable it was . Vatican II was great.
"Precouncil" Church HAD to fall because She was forced to follow two completely irreconcilable positions both at the same time: 1. universal totalism: condemnation of separation of Church and state, freedom of religion and conscience, which by definition defines the public religion as a syncretic and unitarian affair with many different beliefs and points of view, AND 2. The rigid, centralized puritanism, by definition including only a "small but hot" number of practitioners. Pius IX and X loved writing about the "internal enemies of the Church" but both firmly CONDEMNED the very idea of the "inside" of the Church even existing in the first place. With the Church aiming to be the only public and state religion, with other faiths denied their public rights, all those who would normally just leave the Church to start their own religions, all those - because of the condemnation if freedom to choose one's faith freely - stayed inside, and so with them, their error stayed as well. This situation cannot be resolved simply because these two conditions cannot be held together.
Nonsense. A new council is needed to continue and reinforce the intentions of Vaticanum II. On the agenda: universal eucharist communion, priest marriage, marriage for all, refraining from interfering with the believers' sexuality.
Most interesting. But does not acknowledge the deep, profound problems and for most observers and participants - unexpected - difficulties and struggles and corporate decay it unleashed on the church and thereby the world, by seeking to embrace the world. It will take more generations to see a way forward. This was not at all a balanced video to ignore this consequence
What happened was that the changes were enforced without catachesis. When the two young associates brought power saws into the church to separate the altar from the reredos. When we asked him why, they answered, “The Pope said so.” Flash forward to when the new translation of the Roman Missal was going to be introduced, there was five years or more of education, explanation, composition of new Mass music, and etc. It made me wonder if VCII would have been better accepted with the same amount of catechetical.
What seems to have happen was the clergy was not, and continues to this day, not be united when promoting Vatican teachings. I often wonder what the Church would be like today if the clergy were not afraid of addressing, enhancing issues such as woman priest, trusting married couples on issues of divorce and birth control, encourage the laity to take their place in governance. I wonder if victims of sexual abuse would have been supported rather than bankrupting diocese to protect offenders. The documents of Vatican ll has a lot to offer. At times I feel we as church have taken so many steps back. We are once again just starting. Yes this documentary may have taken a “rosey” position, but there is so much to discover yet.
@@johnpglackin345 Perhaps the greatest scandal in the Christian Church is this division between “Catholic” and “Protestant”. Both hierarchy’s keep the feud going. For what purpose I no longer understand. We through the Corporal Works of Mercy speak deeply of our desire of following the Christ.
Who could expect that the liturgy would become guitar 🎸 happy clappy (in a lot of churches)? The intellectual level being not much higher than the music quality (...).
@@markcharron why should it be sedevacantist ?? For instance, the very famous french Solesmes abbey celebrates the Novus Ordo missae beautifully .... In France, we face a problem with the charismatic sects which have been pointed out by the state. And, they do have a "business" of cd and below average books... You can find these liturgies on you tube
@@pascalguillot2737 I walk into any church where I am and I just don't see the rock concert that Vatican 2 haters tend to call the church Liturgy nowadays. I typically see a formal Mass.
@@markcharron the charismatic happy clappy music may suit some. I prefer Bach or the plain chant which I learnt from my parents at the age of 8 ... In France, country of huge cultural heritage everyone seems not to agree what happens and divisions are thick (on both sides ...). I fancy who is sister act ... But, it's not my practice personally
@@benjamin3541 well it was broke. The anti-modernism of St. Pius 10th had literally locked Catholics down into their own little gehttos in the US and elsewhere, and evangelization was not encouraged.
No one disputes the love of Jesus; however, the language of the Church is Latin for very good reason. Just as the language of diplomacy was French for centuries… common tongue allows for intelligent dialogue between those of differing understanding.
It was not know at that time by the majority of people. Try to understand that the perverts infiltrated the priest so that they could abuse boys and young men.
I am a living contradiction. I am a homosexual. I am a lover of the TLM. I have remained a Catholic though my hardships because of the spirit of love, compassion, and fraternity brought by Vatican II. I wish Latin was brought to equal standing with national languages and HH. Benedict XVI's Summorum Pontificum was restored. I wish (though I know it will not happen) that homosexual unions are recognized in the Church, even if in the ancient form of adelphopoiesis. I recognize that in this age of uncertainty and gloomy predictions and projections, a well-structured church is more appealing to the Millennial and Z generations as an anchor to hold on to as our world transitions into a new societal, political, and economic paradigm. I believe HH. Francis has opened the doors to a return to a more fundamental Church closer to the minimalistic days of early Christianity -- a church built on faith on the Lord, fraternity for the downtrodden, and forgiveness to our oppressors. I am thankful to HH St. John XXIII for having the courage to see the need for a different path in the Church. I am thankful to those bishops who still strive to defend the high Tridentine ritual.
Well, I greatly respect your struggle with the that cross you bear. And I appreciate your obvious reverence to love the TLM. But you might want to examine whether Vatican II has deceived you.
Lots of interesting pictures and statistics but ultimately weak content. It's not enough to stitch together extracts from interviews with experts: you also need to join these up with a commentary that adds explanation and perspective. Just one example of editorial negligence: the Latin titles of the various encyclicals are never translated. None of the main theological themes are coherently summarised at any point either. The final section on "Legacy" is particularly weak: it tells us nothing about the actual impact experienced by congregations (e.g. the altar now facing the congregation, other liturgical changes), and nothing about the disputes between conservatives and progressives that must have taken place and how the defeated conservatives reacted. The music is awful: all the most clichéed bits of the classical repertoire intrusively inserted and insensitively chopped into little pieces. In other words, a typical superficial TV documentary. The topic deserves better than this. It's also a pity that the video's description includes no useful commentary, explanation or background.
I feel so very very sorry for th the sisters who had to give up their habits!!!! They worked so hard to be brides of our lord jesus christ & John Paul 2 destroyed all these poor sisters joy of being a bride of christ!!! I remember Franciscan sisters crying and crying, because they had to give up their habits!!! I would not be surprised if john Paul 2 was in hell!!! John Paul 2 spent millions of dollars traveling around the world, yet,he never spent 1 penny to dig water wells for people who lived in drought stricken areas,so people could drink clean water & irrigate their fields!!!
All the Vatican 2 catholics say it's too confusing, I don't understand it's confusing ! Or the mass is enough, no, it's not enough. You must have the true Catholic faith. There is nothing confusing about it !!! Pope Gregory the 16th 1831 let nothing of the truths that have been defined, it be lessened, nothing altered nothing added, but let them be preserved intact in the word and then meaning. Vatican Council of 1870 session 3 chapter 4 part 13 and 14 EX cathedra -- for the doctrine of the faith which God has revealed is put forward not as some philosophical Discovery capable of being perfected by human intelligence but as a Divine deposit committed to the spouse of Christ to be Faithfully protected and infallibly promulgated hence to that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. Pope Pius the 10th syllabus condemning the errors of the modernists 1907 article 62 : the proposition the chief articles of the Apostles Creed did not have the same sense for the Christians of the first stages as they have for the Christians of our time is hereby condemned as erroneous. St John of the Cross 1591 wherefore if there be revealed to us anything new or different we must in no way give consent to it not even though it were spoken by an Angel. St. Thomas Aquinas doctor of the church 1274 all those who deny one Article of Faith regardless of their reason are by that very fact excommunicated. Pope Eugene the fourth Council of Florence Session 8 1439 ex cathedra whoever Wills to be saved before all things it is necessary that he holds the Catholic faith unless a person keeps this Faith whole and undefiled without doubt He Shall Perish eternally. Popplio 13th 1896 the practice of the church has always been the same as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the fathers who were want to hold as outside Catholic communion and alien to the church whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of Doctrine proposed by her authoritative magisterium. Council Florence session 11 February 4th 1442 ex cathedra the Holy Roman Church condemns reproves anathematize has and declares to be outside the body of church which is the Catholic Church whoever holds opposing or contrary views. Popplio the 10th 5th lateran Council session 8th 1513 EX cathedra and since truth cannot conjure the truth we Define that every statement contrary to the enlightened truth of the faith is totally false and we strictly forbid teaching otherwise to be permitted we decree that all those who cling to erroneous statements of this time this sewing heresies which are wholly condemned should be avoided in every way and punished as detestable and odious Heretics and infidels who are undermining the Catholic faith. Saint Athanasius God's word is one and the same in the doors forever unchanged always the same Pope Pius the 9th, qui Pluribus I'm faith and religion November 9th 1846 paragraph 20 never cease to instruct all men in it never tolerating and letting pass anyting which could in the slightest degree defiled the purity of this faith. What the same great strength of Mind Foster and all men their Unity with the Catholic church outside of which there is no salvation Pope Saints sixtus 3 nothing new is to be allowed for nothing can be added to the old look for the faith of the elders and do not let our faith be disturbed by a mixture of new doctrines St Vincent of Lerins 445, all novelty in faith is ashore Mark of heresy Saint Paul Cried Out aloud again and again to all men to all times and to all places that if anyone announces a new doctrine let him be anathematized. If there is a change YOU ARE NOT TO SUPPORT IT OR embrace it IN ANY WAY !!! There is no confusion unless you're a heretic and belong to the vatican 2 fake church, there is no confusion for true Catholics, I'll say that again there is no confusion for the true Catholics the teachings of the church are simple and clear. Nothing is to be changed !!!!! Nothing !! If you disagree with this your excommunicated from the church you no longer are Catholic you no longer have a father in Heaven !!!
We thank and praise You O God the Holy Holy Spirit for Your continuing Guidance of the Holy Catholic Church, particularly in the 2nd Vatican Council and transformative decisions. We pray You Kindly Light to continue to be with the Church in the effective implementation of these decisions towards the holiness and unification of God’s children , through Jesus Christ our Lord , living in Mary. In union and through Mary, our Mother we sincerely continue to thank You , O Paraclete, “ My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour”…..
“Moreover, some and even most of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give to the Church itself, can exist outside the the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit and visible elements too.” - Paul VI, Unitatis Redintegratio, No. 3, Nov. 21, 1964 “With faith urging us, we are forced to believe and to hold the one holy Catholic Church and that apostolic and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) outside which there is no salvation nor remission of sin …” - Pope Boniface VIII, ex cathedra bull, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302
Just what evidence do you have the changes of Vatican II are the result of guidance by the Paraclete? Because I think the falling numbers of vocations is evidence of the demonic influence on Vatican II.
The world has changed so much today, that there should be another Ecumenical Council. Pope Francis is the perfect modern pope to call it, as he is rather a revolutionary Pope in his own right. The place of the Church in the place of the modern world has to be made clear and there is no more better forum than that of a 3rd Vatican Council.
Yeah, why not?! Let him continue to correct our Lord by Changing the Lord's Prayer (Yes, he actually did), pushing the LGBTQrstuvwxyz agenda, Denying the dogma of Hell (as he did in Amoris Laetitia), and suppressing the Traditional Mass. Yaye!
Thousands years ago there seat the father of Christianity the holy Roman emperor CESAR where all Kings and kingdoms of the world gathered to the Basilica of the righteous father Patre Pio a Original the Good Emperor Anthony Pio the first Christians where the 12 saints with their King Saint Paul in return glorious from Jerusalem the holy temple after a word wide building churches for to fashion the most remote tribes of Man to have a heavenly life stile as God created MAN in his Image to be in harmony with each other as good friend and as brother to have one God so since than than Christianity has been a servant of God's creation to Asher All mankind in God's kingdom of MESSIAH The Prince of Peace may their be such gathering in Jerusalem soon united as one world with God
So viele Zuhälter des Bordels der römischen Götzen des planetarischen "Christentums" auf einem Mal zusammen habe ich noch nie gesehen. ``````````````⚓```````````````````````````
How is it wicked? I think a lot is misunderstood about the council. I for one am in agreement for having the mass in the language of the people. The church being more ecumenical in dealing with protestants, brought me into the church. I can't imagine how evangelization would be effective if one has to also learn a new language to be assimilated. Understanding the breadth of the faith can take a life time in a language one understands.
Vatican II - A normal council? Hermeneutic of continuity or hermeneutic of inversion? The mind of the early Church was specific although her formulated doctrine was less specific. For that reason the formulated doctrine needed to be constantly specified to better articulate WHAT WAS ALREADY BELIEVED. Whereas the post-conciliar trend is to modify the mind of the Church to conform to a more generically formulated doctrine. Did Vatican II leave out or ignore some essential Catholic Doctrine? A consideration of Vatican II using the concepts of genus and species. Without getting into the historical background, inner workings and doctrinal details of the Vatican II documents and rather relying on what most Catholics know about it, the following analogy I think is most revealing: Aristotle says that the natural way of learning and coming to know things is from the generic to the more specific. Just as when we see something moving in the distance we first identify it as a body and then as it moves closer an animal and even closer a man and finally as this particular person; Socrates. Now it needs to be understood that there is a difference between our knowledge of a thing and the thing itself. Furthermore if someone were to give the definition of the species of a thing instead of giving the definition of the genus of that thing one would give a more precise and fuller account of the thing. In other words, the more specific our knowledge becomes of something the closer our knowledge resembles the thing, the truer our knowledge is. (Truer, in the sense of having more truth. Adeguatio res et intellectus) This is the natural way man comes to know. To try to move in the opposite direction is unnatural and against human nature. To try to forget what one already KNOWS about something in order to know it more generically is an act of violence against oneself. It would entail force that goes against one's own nature. Using an analogy this would be like a seasoned cavalier who has known horses his whole life attempting to not consider a horse anymore as a horse but rather as an unspecified animal. Now what is more generic and less specific is more universal. Whereas as what is more specific is more exclusive, in the sense that an essential difference is added to the genus in order to define the species. This sets it apart from other species. In the same way when one says the word animal it can apply to many things. Whereas, when one says man it excludes many things and applies to just one type of animal. Now, things that exist in reality ARE NOT generic they are specific. The Church founded by Our Lord is a real existing reality. It is something specific with its own essential elements and properties. A specific account of the Church includes more essential elements than a generic one. The Councils, pronouncements and doctrines throughout the ages became more and more specific. The Church's awareness of itself approached more and more the reality of its own being. It is impossible to move in the other direction. In other words it is impossible to move from a specific knowledge to a more general confused knowledge. A generic knowledge of anything is always more confused than a specific one, just as knowing something only in so far as it is an animal is more confused than knowing it specifically. Instead, our knowledge specifies as we gain acquaintance and experience of a thing. One may object that the Apostles or early Christians had a very clear and specific knowledge of the Church. This is true. However the Church's formulated doctrine was not as specific. Throughout the centuries this doctrine became better formulated and more specific. This was necessary especially to rule out heresy and error. A more generic knowledge on the other hand leaves out essential elements since it can never define as well and as close to reality as a specific account can. Take for instance the treasure of Dogmas the Church has and considering for instance the doctrine of Transubstantiation or the Immaculate Conception. These are very well defined truths of our faith. To try and forget about them and return to a more generic explanation would, at this point in time, leave out essential elements. One may ask, why say "at this point in time" would entail leaving out essential elements? Its necessary to say "at this point in time" since one could object and say that the early Church's catechising was not as formulated as it was post Council of Trent, yet we cannot say that the Church left out essential elements in its teaching at that time. This is true and that is the point. When heresies attacked the faith of the Church, as what happened with Luther's idea of the Real Presence during mass, the older formulation of what happens during the consecration was no longer specific enough. Therefore the Church better and more specifically defined this miracle using the concept of transubstantiation. Any teaching now on the Real Presence which left out the concept of transubstantiation would at this point in time leave out what has become essential elements. Unless we would pretend that the threat of heretical interpretations no longer persists and a generic account would immediately render a correct understanding. However we know this is not the case. Now, in order for Vatican II to be less divisive, open to non Catholics and ALSO IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE CONSENSUS AMONGST THE COUNCIL FATHERS, THE COUNCIL HAD TO REVERSE THE NATURAL PROCEDURE AND PROCLAIM SOMETHING MORE GENERIC THAN PREVIOUS COUNCILS. Now, one could argue that the council taught no error. Entering into this debate is not easy and not for the most of us. However knowing that the council purposefully decided to be less specific and more generic is known by all of us. Can we say that a generic knowledge of a thing is deficient compared to a fuller specific knowledge of a thing? Trying to go against oneself and forget what one once knew or defined creates the impression that one must have been wrong once upon a time. Because why else would one try to forget or forget to mention what one once knew or defined? How many people do we know who have used Vatican II to look back and interpret older Councils? Anything more specific than the Council is frowned upon as superfluous and outdated. But does truth age? Never the less can we blame them for acquiring this habit when this is a natural consequence of artificially regressing and not progressing in knowledge? Of trying to be less specific and more generic? Furthermore, there is a prevalent assumption amongst "post conciliar" Catholics that Vatican II attempted to strip Catholicism of whatever is non essential. But, this leads to a contradiction since to hold this view would be to believe that a specific account is less essential than a generic account. This is the same as saying that the definition of man as rational animal is less essential than defining him as an animal. I would therefore like to ask: Why do we think Vatican II is supposed to be a type of update of Catholicism or a type of refocusing of the Church on what is really essential? Did the Council Fathers intentionally want to be less specific for the sake of truth or was this a consequence of trying to find consensus both internally and with the outside world? Was the Church's self awareness and identity diminished on account of this? Following the proverb Lex orandi lex credendi and its just as true corollary lex credendi lex orandi is it fair to say that an analogy can be drawn: as the new council (specific to generic) compares to the organic evolution of doctrine (generic to specific) so does the new mass compare to the organic evolution of the ancient mass? This leads to the next question: in trying to reverse the natural progression from generic to specific and trying to return to the more generic with the excuse of returning to the mode of expression of the early Church does the real danger exists of actually becoming more generic than the early Church itself? There is an essential difference here: the mind of the early Church was very specific although her formulated doctrine was less specific. For that reason the formulated doctrine needed to be constantly specified to better articulate WHAT WAS ALREADY BELIEVED. Whereas the post-conciliar trend is to modify the mind of the Church to conform to a more generically formulated doctrine.
Jesus Christ instituted the Sacraments of His Church He was true God and true Man. The Jewish Passover Prayers said in the Temple in Jerusalem were about Him. Yes His Own Death Prayers. He and His Apostles carried out the religious observances of the Jews. Jesus and His Apostles attended the Temple in Jerusalem for Passover Prayers on the night He was betrayed. Those Passover Prayers are in the Tridentine Mass. Shortly after the Jews gain Israel the Perpetual Sacrifice will be removed and the Abomination of Desolation replaced therin then comes the end of the Gentiles. Novus Ordo is a Counterfeit and the Abomination of Desolation.
I'm Vietnamese and we respond in mass when the priest say "God be with you", we say "and with you Father". This has very special meaning in Vietnamese. In English, we say "and with your Spirit". This doesn't make sense to me at all.
The Bishops didn't know that a couple of years after they signed Sacramentum Concilium, I would be in a Newman Center Chapel in the Diocese of Peoria, IL, and Father Like would discard his vestments and "concecrate" pretzels, pizza, and cigarettes, beer coke, and pepsi, instead of bread and wine.
@@admiralbob77 Sorry, but the Sedevacantists appear to be right, and you really aren’t giving any better options. Because to follow your path means to accept idolatry, exonerate the deiciders, say that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church, etc.
@@collectiveconsciousness5314 Good comment. I'm sedevacant. Ecumenism was the biggest error that came out of V II. Every pope since Pius XII has perpetuated it with impunity.
Seriously guys, maybe the New Liturgy has its flaws but the Council itself is the most beautiful transformation of the Church in the last centuries. The idea of mercy and compassion to the whole world that this Council thought is what our Lord Jesus wants us to do.
The council was opened by satanic rituals and was arguably the worst thing to ever happen to the church, it massacred the faith and was headed by known Freemasons such as Archbishop Bugnini
Mercy was always there. If you commit a sin. Than you confess your sins to the priest. And than Our Lord through His priest absolves you of your sins. Their is your mercy.
@@johnpglackin345 what I mean to say is the Church has become more compassionate and charitable to the world than it projects herself as an institution who is the only righteous, unlike the Pharisees
@@r41n31 but now we have empty pews. And many people commit sacrilegious communion at Mass. And the Church no longer speaks with a moral voice. Many souls are not saved.
The beginning of the end of the Church we had known for Centuries starting with the destruction of the Mass and then the other Sacraments... The Church brutally turned its' back on its' won people in order to welcome peoples of other Faiths..... The choice had been made.... And how did that turn out ? Empty Churches....
Let’s default to the Holy Catholic Bible, “you will know them by their fruit” no matter where you land on Vatican II look at its “rotten fruit” I’m old enough to have lived through the “change” and it’s been Hell to watch the Catholic Church self-destruct. The only thing achieved? Protestantism! 👎👎✝️
@@avrilblanchefisher8432 Are you a new pope we have not heard about yet? You seem to speak (or rather bitch around) on behalf of the whole church. Pride that even Satan himself would envy.
@@vaniberi8189 say as u wish. Just by the use of ur words, u are obviously a heavily burdened person with a deep seated hatred that is only in your head And your heart. Live your life and pave ur way to eternity u are not big enuff to carry the world on ur shoulders. God for all, and all for God. And no, iam not a Pope, will never be, just a humble Catholic defending my faith against people like u. May God bless u and grant u inner peace.
417 Many Popes have been prisoners in the Holy See, surrounded by Masonic groups Monday, May 7th, 2012 @ 18:19 My dearly beloved daughter, to My churches through the world I say this: Know that I will always be with you at your side, as long as you proclaim My Most Holy Word. To My Catholic Church, even though you caused torment as a result of evil sin, know that I will never forsake you, although you have sinned. But know this. Your faith in Me, is not as strong as it should be. You do not love Me, as you once did. All the wealth you accumulated, put a distance between Me, your Christ and Saviour and God’s ordinary children. You scaled such lofty heights, that I could not reach up to you and offer you My Hand to salvage you from the rot within your core. You were taught the Truth by My Peter, upon whose Rock you were built. And what did you do? You built thick stone walls around you. This caused a lack of communication with those whom you needed to feed with My Body and Blood, so that their souls could be nourished. The respect required of you in administering My Most Holy Eucharist, was lost, when you demeaned My Presence. When Vatican II declared new rules, they were introduced, by those evil Masonic forces, from within your corridors. They cunningly presented new ways to administer My Holy Eucharist, which are insulting to Me. Your so-called tolerant teachings proclaimed a series of lies, including the refusal to acknowledge the power of Saint Michael the Archangel. He is the protector of the Church against Satan. Those forces among you knew this. This is why you stopped all prayers, requesting his help, before Me at Mass. Then you perpetrated the biggest untruth, that Hell was not to be feared. That it was just a metaphor. For this lie, accepted as the Truth by many of God’s children, has meant the loss of billions of souls. How you offend Me. For those humble and sacred servants among you, I ask that you go back to My Teachings. Never allow riches to accumulate amongst you and think that they are acceptable in My Eyes. Riches, gold and power accumulated in My Name, will be your downfall. You cannot profit from My Holy Word. You have suffered because of the way you have offended Me. Never think that I Am blaming the many holy popes who have sat in the Seat of Peter. Their Mission has always been protected. Many popes have been prisoners in the Holy See, surrounded by Masonic groups, who do not represent God. They hate God and have spent fifty years spreading untruths, about the Mercy of God. Their works have led to the collapse of the Catholic Church. This was not an accident. It was deliberately and cunningly plotted in order to destroy the faith of the Church, to destroy the homage of ordinary Catholics, to the One True God. For this, you will now be cast aside into the wilderness. After Pope Benedict, you will be led by Me, from the Heavens. Oh how you have made Me weep. I call on all of My sacred servants, who know the Truth, to stand up and follow Me, your Jesus, to spread the Truth of My Teachings in humble servitude. You must find the courage and the strength to rise from the ashes. Above all, reject the lies, which will shortly be presented to you by the false prophet. He will merge the Catholic Church with other churches, including pagan churches, to become one abomination, a one world church without a soul. Your Jesus
“It is of course possible to read the Old Testament so that it is not directed toward Christ; it does not point unequivocally to Christ. And if Jews cannot see the promises as being fulfilled in him, this is not just ill will on their part, but genuinely because of the obscurity of the texts. There are perfectly good reasons then, for denying that the Old Testament refers to Christ and for saying, ‘No, that is not what he said.’ And there are also good reasons for referring it to him - that is what the dispute between Jews and Christians is about.” - Joseph Ratzinger, God and the World, page 209, 2000 “Search the scriptures, for you think in them to have life everlasting; and the same are they that give testimony of me. And you will not come to me that you may have life. I receive glory not from men. But I know you, that you have not the love of God in you. I am come in the name of my Father, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive glory one from another: and the glory which is from God alone, you do not seek? Think not that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one that accuseth you, Moses, in whom you trust. For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” - John 5:39-47
Upon completing the 'Protestantization' of the former Roman Catholic Church, between the late sixties and late eighties, a hundred thousand priests dropped out, ninety thousand nuns dropped out, the seminaries were vacant as the seminarians dropped out in droves. Presently, there is some sort of Catholic/Anglican/Congregationalist blend with clowns in the Mass, rock and roll music in the mass, one mass I heard all the parishoners were nude. Pope Pium V and Pope Pius X warned us against modernizing the mass. Pope John XXIII didn't listen hoping for a 'big tent' where the Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestants would all join in. Hence: Vatican II was an abysmal failure.
YJMJR : Vatican 1 and 2 : Glorious . Making For The Church lasting throughout The Years in The face of nothing but adversity from The World . Ave Maria .
I think it was a great Council that served to group and renew the Church. The successive Popes, especially John Paul II, developed it that way and put it into practice. I pray for all Christians.
Not to be a naysayer, but for what good Vatican 2 accomplished … much confusion (purposed imo) was sown. If one cast even a casual eye towards the condition that the Church finds itself in, It would stretch credibility to advance the opinion the the Universal Church is better off for the teachings of Vatican 2. The Novus Ordo Mass remains a liturgy that lacks the solemn character of the Old Mass. The modern vestments somehow reflect this impoverishment . Churches are closing, fewer parishioners in the pews, more and division with respect to settled Doctrine, a vocation crisis that-though not as pressing as in last decades-continues. Worst yet, wide spread rejection of the belief in the Blessed Sacrament. On balance, Vatican 2 carries a great deal of negative baggage from sloppy wording and vague theology.
You are correct, it is certainly the case that the aftermath of a council is typically uglier that what preceded it; however, this stands out for the fiasco that it was. In the era of almost instant communication- unlike any previous council, one could be forgiven for calling it a shit show. JP2 and Benedict tried to pull back, but Francis will accelerate the confusion. And that is what you get when you elevate a Jesuit to the Papacy. That order was so close to being suppressed by JP2 … and it is a crying shame it was not done. The Church always produces its own worst enemies, and Francis is the example par excellence. A great many souls will be lost in consequence- and Vatican 2 deserves much of the blame.
@@patrickdean4853 I hear what you are saying, I definitely think you are wrong though. One thing that I think you should consider dropping is that the Holy Father doesn’t have the faithfuls best intentions at heart. You can ponder his intentions but you cannot justly contradict him. That’s why we are Catholic after all, unlike the Protestants and Orthodox.
@@commissary4196 read The Jesuits by Maliki Martin- that book was recommended to me by my former friend and Ordinary- Bishop Robert Morlino… a former Jesuit. Nothing this is going on with Francis is a misunderstanding. The Jesuits have a great deal to answer for regarding the last 60 years of malfeasance. Putting one in the seat of Peter is mind blowing to say the least. Francis will undue most of the progress in taming Vatican 2 abuses. Again, read The Jesuits and I think you will see things from a different perspective
@@patrickdean4853 You’re right, when you read authors such as Malachi Martin you see things from a different perspective. So much so, that you will go against the promise Christ made to us that the ‘gates of hell shall not prevail’. Have faith in Christ not Irish storytellers. It’s fiction not faction, as Malachi calls it.
Some people just hate change. And will never forgive or forget that Vatican II changed things that even Jesus would have found foreign. Yes, the Catholic Church still does a lot of good in the world, but the corruption is unconscionable. I still think Jesus, who didn’t speak Latin, by the way, would approve of the prayer, the Mass, being said in the vernacular, where it could be understood better. He would approve of congregations participating actively, willingly. But it’s interesting that there is selective rejection of papal infallibility when it’s something someone disagrees with. John Paul II inspired with his embrace of Vatican II. How long until he is rejected by the Vatican II haters?
Why did the Temple fall because they sacrificed the Symbolic Paschal Lamb Sacrifice and now it was time for the real Lamb to be Sacrificed. Jews had true worship they worshipped the Messiah in advance. Work in Progress. Imposters and Apostates and Hirelings handing down diluted Protestantism.
It was a colossal mistake. The statement at the beginning of the video was correct in saying it was not a church event. Hence it had no place in the Vatican. It has been misinterpreted and abused by the bureaucracy entrusted with implementing it. It defied many of the most important church laws regarding how is council is conducted. That it had no purpose and no real issue to address, according to this video, in some ways explains how it became the disaster that it is. I am 5 minutes and 32 seconds into this video and already I have learned important facts as stated in this video and I have addressed in this comment. The council occurred pretty much with my birth and I can tell you that the fruits of this council are not good as is obvious even to me, a council baby. And it is only getting worse. A quick example. A sacrament is defined as something implemented by Christ, that confers grace and that has a physical act as a component. The Priesthood is a sacrament. Christ did not confer the priesthood on any woman, not even his own mother who is obviously held in very high regard by the Catholic Church. And yet, there is an irrational impulse in the church to defy the obvious intent of the all knowing God, Jesus Christ, and establish women in the priesthood. See the definition of a sacrament above. It is lunacy. This was the easiest one to explain but the church of today is full of bad decisions that directly conflict with every church decision prior to Vatican II.
They will answer to God for replacing the Latin Tridentine Mass with the bogus Novus Ordo abomination of desolation. St Pius X warned of Modernism. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of the SSPX gave me back the Latin Tridentine Mass of my youth and Deo gratias for him.
So do you really think a Mass that could be understood by the people hearing it (because it’s their own language) is a bad thing? Though Latin sounds beautiful and elegant - but only a tiny select few could understand it. Isn’t it much preferable to communicate with God with a language you understand instead of parrot-like repetitions of prayers beyond your comprehension? Someone once ask to read a prayer with words I don’t understand. I refuse to do it because I didn’t know what I’d be praying about.
@@erigerontriteleia the main problem was, little by little, to cancel centuries of sacred music ! Here in France, they closed the sacred music institutes... the result is now and emphasizes the crisis ... TLM and charismatic happy clappy have a number of extreme. I can't agree with the ketchup liturgy where the questioning is also very little !
@TruthSeeker75 despite my defense of tradition as french singer and organist, I am very oecumenical and know very well the Calvinistic and Anglican traditionS. One must repeat and repeat the indult Agatha Christie 1971, Catholics, protestants and Jews defended the tridentine mass. (Yehudi Menuhin and Vladimir Ashkenazy...)
I am Orthodox. There is a special place in my heart for my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters, and I continually pray for them and for the traditional Catholic theology for which their church has so long stood upon, as it is far better than the theology coming from Rome today. Even my own church has skeletons in its closet. We all need prayer, the whole church needs prayer.
I think you’ll see in your lifetime Eastern Orthodox return to the Catholic Church as they see the consequence and full understanding of a heavenly and earthly hierarchy and how the battle against the darkness is in the Catholic Church because that is the prize and it will look as if all hope is lost for the church before it resurrects. The argument against the Catholic Church is in fact the evidence if it’s authority and this is exactly why it has become the center of the war here on earth.
May you return to Her and you are in my prayers
Blessing and peace to you.
I had a Greek Orthodox father and an Irish Catholic mother.
Truly, the best of both worlds. As Jesus loves you I love you.
Pray for me as I will pray for you.
Timothy Constatine Fronimos
@@timfronimos459 what a blessing
I am Catholic. There is a special place in my heart for my Orthodox brothers and sisters. I cannot explain the love I feel for them in spite of some differences.
@@BryanKirchRome would benefit all of God’s sheep if it came back to Orthodoxy. Rome changed Gods hospital to fit our needs, but we need to submit to God and submit to what he needs from us. May we please God and may his will be done
So much optimism, few that understand this is the beginning of the end of Christian Europe...
Vatican II was the final nail in the coffin. The true beginning of the end of Christian Europe happened when the Kings and Queens of Christendom fell after WWI.
The people interviewed here are without doubt very optimistic of the Council and describe them in glowing terms. Certainly I was born long after the Council was concluded, and definitely the world that I have come into is the one that the Council has certainly effected. Did the Council Fathers ever thought that one day Catholics would become a minority in most countries in Europe, and the nones (those without religious affiliations) would be rising. I wonder if their optimistic attitude of a world where the name of God means peace and goodwill to all mankind has become the reality of today. Looking and listening at them, I could not but notice the stark contrast of what a regular Catholic today. In America, even majority of Catholics don’t believe in Holy Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ.
It takes decades after any Council for things to settle. Pope John said he had no specific aim in calling the Council, but to let in some fresh air, and to leave it to the Holy Spirit. We should do the same and totally trust that God is guiding His Church. +
@@wendyfield7708 The effects of the Council have long been settled. It has been decades since the Council was called and we are feeling the effects of it today for sure. Catholic numbers are dwindling and we practise a watered-down Protestantized mass. The 2nd Vatican Council was terrible for Catholics all around the world and the faith as a whole.
I think perhaps the bigger issue is the implementation/execution of Vatican II. Lots of people make changes to their liturgy and space under the premise that "Vatican II said so", when in fact it did not.
The Bishop who was the youngest at the time. Only died this year. I think however he was in favour changing teaching on homosexulity.
Thank you for posting this
By their fruits you will know them - St Matthew 7:16
Would have been nice to hear from some of the critics, who are conspicuously absent.
You mean heretics like Mr Levebre and the zirconia brothers.
What do you expect from a film co-produced by Vatican TV? This is not a documentary, it's a propaganda piece.
The Ebionites ?
Really shows how much we have lost.😢 How about that "New Spring Time" going?
Thank you. I was living and working in Rome at this time. I think this is a good balanced summary of Vatican 2. I am a lay person, received into the Catholic Church in 1958, and am now 88. I feel that the further away we get in time from this, the more inaccurate become many commentators, both clergy and laity, who were born often decades later. So I am grateful for this, as I remember it all well, and was one who kept vigil with large numbers as Pope John was dying. I later worked in the Vatican during Paul VI’s time, as a translator, and at the time when he he was stabbed in the Philippines. Paul Vi was the first Pope to open up travel abroad for the Pontiff. Pray for the Church. +
When was this documentary made, please?
PaulVI was stabbed in the Philippines? I never knew that.
I also learned recently that PiusX11 was shot the bullet hit his crucifix. He gave that Crucifix to Bishop Fulton Sheen I don't know who has it now.
@@janettedavis6627 No, it was John Paul II who was shot in the Piazza. He immediately forgave his assassin and later visited him in prison. One bullet did hit something which saved him, but others got him in non fatal places.
Paul VI in the Philippines was stabbed by a lay person dressed as a priest, who had managed to get into the inner circle at a large public Mass there. I think only his hand was damaged as people around him grabbed the man immediately.
Vatican II was forced upon the Church and it was a necessary move. Before that Europe was drenched in blood in the 30 Years' War between Protestants and Catholic in the name of our Peaceful God. Before that was the Crusaders sack of Eastern Roman Church at Constantinople. This weakened it so much and allowed muslims to take over. These discussion of pro and anti Vatican II can have serious consequences but this is just normal human affairs. It's an ongoing tragedy.
@@janettedavis6627 Yes, Pope Paul VI was almost stabbed in the Philippines. I was a newspaper reporter at the airport, but I could not see what was happening at the reception line, so I asked some of the French reporters to help me climb up to the platform where they were standing. That was when it happened; so I missed it.
However, I learned that President Marcos was able to parry the attack and saved the Pope from being stabbed. Good old Dictator Marcos was always the hero in every occasion. Because I did not see it, I did not write about it. There were other events that the Pope attended to, which I saw and wrote about.
So how do you feel about the obvious discrepancies in the appearance of Paul VI over time. Did you see him over the entire time of his papacy?
Thank you! Very Informative documentary it is...
I was born after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and realize now with great sadness how much my generation was cheated of our proper Catholic heritage.
YOUR CATHOLIC HERITAGE IS DEMONIC AND A DAMNABLE HERESY THAT IS TAKING SOULS TO A CHRISTLESS GRAVE . I DEFY THE CATHOLIC DOCTRINE !!!
Growing up during the reign of Pius XII I saw the glory and holiness of the True Church. Then came destruction from wolves in sheep's clothing
Lord save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance
Vatican 2 was great. It’s the people that complain about it (and the people that implement it wrongly) that are the problem.
Thank you for the documentary.
How about listing info like year of production, producers, owner etc.?
I am a post Vatican II Catholic, I converted in 1987.
It is worth noting that Vatican 2 took place when Communism, then the archenemy of Catholicism, was in full global flood. And they never mentioned it. Not once. Tells you all you need to know.
That's funny because the Archbishop of Krakow Cardinal Wojtyła who was at the council later became Pope John Paul II, who worked with Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to bring down the Iron Curtain.
You are correct and it wasn't an accident. It was definitely on purpose.
They covered Communism back in the 19th century in Rerum Novarum (1891) and Decree Against Communism in 1949.
Hahahhahahaa
So…. How did all that “being open to the world” work out?
Great! If you’re aim was to ruin Catholicism 😝
Watching this makes me cry. And it's not even 5 minutes. 😪
Everything they thought these changes would bring brought the opposite. It was the beginning of destruction, its become something I do not recognize.
The magisterium has spoken.
@@rjyahin05Not if they are progressives. Progressives are not Catholic. And are not guided by the Holy Ghost. Therefore they have no say.
When naivety and optimism mix, things can get chaotic pretty quickly. For a church that had grown so old, it is difficult to understand how the ideologies of so many council personalities could have been so juvenile.
Not at all juvenile. It was geniusly crafted from the begining, when the masons had enough of their members in positions of power. It was a struggle where the evil guys won. The result was heterodoxy, modernism, liberalism and liturgical chaos. You can read "Infiltration" by Dr. T. Marshall or at least find the commentary on it on ytube.
Thank you for this... It is insightful!
No, it really isn't. It somehow talks about the council for almost an hour, while trying desperately not to actually say anything about it at all.
The fruits of the council is enough to worry all people of the world. The Third Secret of Fatima is all about this council if not something even worse. The prophecies of Our Lady of Good Success in Quito, Ecuador from 400 years ago can explain the past 60-years from this event.
It would not surprise me if Pope Francis called a Vatican Council III especially in the light of recent church scandals , falling vocations , the demand for a review of celibacy , the role of women and an increasing input from the laity in church affairs .
He instituted those things. Why would he call a council? Actually the Synod on Synodality is Vatican III.
Vatican II fixed what wasn't broken, and the cost of that is clear: Empty churches.
Have you been to Poland? Italy? Philippines? Brazil? Spain? The Churches are hardly empty. Heck, even Indonesia and Malaysia where catholicism is minority, Churches are packed.
So what the heck are you talking about?
The above link will help you to understand the context better I think. Though obviously it's only in a quick nutshell.
@@jimmoriarty6964 But are they truly Catholic. Are they worshipping God as Catholics or Protestants.
The world is larger than western Europe and North America.
Full of what? Roman Catholics or Novus Ordites? Necessity of Baptism? Salvation in false religions?
At the end they said that the tridentine period is over, that doesnt aged well. the tridentine rite, is still alive, and while hundreds of churches are closcing every year, the churches that follow the traditional mass are the only ones that are growing in the western world.
True. The Novous Ordo will wither while the TLM will thrive; 'cos therein we find the true Church.
24:13 Absolutely absurd.
I grew up in the immediate aftermath of this Council, and can only attest to how my family responded to it. My mother firmly believes that it was a positive, feeling that changes allowed her to be more a participant in her faith, rather than a spectator. The Mass became warmer and more inclusive.
We recently attended a pre-Vatican II Mass, and she recognized it, remembered most of it. But shared once was enough. She joked pre Vatican II hardliners would have made Jesus give the Sermon on the Mount in Latin.
But she explained, too, that my network of friends in the 70s and 80s wouldn’t have been possible before Vatican II. She wasn’t allowed to have Protestant friends, or Jewish friends. If she even looked at the Lutheran church on Main Street she got detention in school.
My mother truly believes Jesus would have approved of this Council.
So, why did after the II Vatican Council the Church was hit with heresy, apostasy, priests that don't want to wear liturgical garments, loud music often inapropriate for Mass, imodesty on clothing on the people that watch Mass (btw, imodesty is a sin, specially in Church)?
It didn't invite people in. It threw people out.
@@renanromanov6466 Human sinfulness iscwhy. Disobedience to what Vatican II was actually asking, priests who did not bother to study the decisions, and who went against Pope Paul’s HUMANAE VITAE Encyclical instead of explaining it to the people, etc. etc.+
Shes wrong
@@wendyfield7708 The Vatican II was a remedy that didn't work. And we have been trying to use it since 1965.
If this was medicine, it have been discarted ages ago. Even St. Paul VI said that "The smoke of the Devil has entered by the windows of the Church" after he saw the results of the Council.
Again: It didn't invite people in. It threw people out.
@@renanromanov6466 Heresy, apostasy, liturgical abuses, immodesty, etc. are evil. Our Lord did not promise that the gates of hell will not enter the Church, just that evil will not prevail. And I believe Him.
i am tired of hearing how wonderful the Council was, and how great everything is now, and how horrible everything would be now, had it not been for the salvific Council. And how stupid everything was before Vatican II. They can say wnatever they want. The Church I grew up in is gone. dead. and there is not much left. The effects of the Council were destructive. As were the 60s in general, by the end of the decade.
U have a choice, there are plenty of other churches I can join.
A consideration of Vatican II using the concepts of genus and species.
Without getting into the historical background, inner workings and doctrinal details of the Vatican II documents and rather relying on what most Catholics know about it the following analogy I think is most revealing:
Aristotle says that the natural way of learning and coming to know things is from the generic to the more specific. Just as when we see something moving in the distance we first identify it as a body and then as it moves closer an animal and even closer a man and finally as this particular person Socrates.
Now it needs to be understood that there is a difference between our knowledge of a thing and the thing itself. Our knowledge is always more generic than the thing itself existing in reality which is very specific. If someone were to give the definition of the species of a thing instead of giving the definition of the genus of that thing one would give a more precise and fuller account of the thing. In other words the more specific our knowledge becomes of something the closer our knowledge resembles the thing. The truer our knowledge is, in the sense of having more truth - adeguatio res et intellectus.
This is the natural way man comes to know. To try to move in the opposite direction is unatural and against human nature. To try to forget what one already KNOWS about something in order to know it more generically is an act of violence against oneself. It would entail force that goes against one's own nature.
Now what is more generic and less specific is more universal. Whereas as what is more specific is more exclusive. In the same way when one says the word animal it can apply to many things. Where when one says man it excludes many things and applies to just one type of animal. Now things that exist in reality ARE NOT generic they are specific.
The Church founded by Our Lord is a real existing reality. It is something specific with its own essential elements and properties.
Now the Councils, pronouncements and doctrines through the ages became more and more specific. The Church's awareness of itself approached more and more the reality of its own being. It is impossible to move in the other direction. In other words it is impossible to move from a specific knowledge to a more general confused knowledge. A generic knowledge of anything is always more confused than a specific one, just as knowing something only in so far as it is an animal is more confused than knowing it specifically: a man. Instead our knowledge specifies as we gain acquantaince and experience of a thing. This should.not be confused with the knowledge particular persons had of the Church. Ofcourse the apostles and early Christians had a very specific knowledge of the Church. However the Church's formulated doctrine was not as specific. Throughout the centuries this doctrine became better formulated and more specific. This was neccesary especially to rule out heresy and error. A more generic knowledge on the other hand is more open to heresy and error.
Now, in order for Vatican II to be less divisive, open to non Catholics and ALSO IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE CONSENSUS AMONGST THE COUNCIL FATHERS, THE COUNCIL HAD TO REVERSE THE NATURAL PROCEDURE AND PROCLAIM SOMETHING MORE GENERIC THAN PREVIOUS COUNCILS.
Now one could argue that the council taught no error. Entering into this debate is not easy and not for the most of us. However knowing that the council purposefully decided to be less specific and more generic is known by all of us. Can we say that a generic knowlwdge of a thing is deficient compared to a fuller specific knowlwdge of a thing? Trying to go against oneself and forget what one once knew creates the impression that one must have been wrong once upon a time. Because why else would one try to forget what once knew? Especially if what one once knew one used to think was valuable and true, a treasure to be safeguarded.
How many people do we know who have used Vatican II to look back and interpret older Councils? Anything more specific than the Council is frowned upon as superfluous and outdated. But does truth age? Never the less can we blame them for acquiring this habit when this is a natural consequence of artificially regressing and not progressing in knowledge? Of trying to be less specific and more generic. Ask any good attorney or advocate; the truth is in the details. Become less specific and you loose the case. Unless one is hiding something.
In conclusion:
In any art, science, law, doctrine, description or definition the more specific take precedence over any less specific alternative of it.
Verbose
Vat2 is still questionable.
@@Stop_Elitists_Wars Had to be since not everyone undertsands genus and species and how these differ to the actual real thing. Not everyone has the patience to understand what I wrote.
@@chescaordonez9964 Exactly. Yes it is. I wonder why The Council of Trent was never questionable. What makes them different?
council of Trent was counter-reformation. It condemns the heresies of Luther.
Sadly, Vat2 is when we strip the Mother Church of its tradition, its beauty, and its magnificence. In this new mass, the heresies of reformation and communism (equality, fraternity, liberty) deepened its fangs to the Holy Mother Church.
I'm pretty sure that after Vatican III, lots of folks will be longing to go back to the Vatican II Mass. It's human nature.
VC III will probably discuss the ordination of human-animal hybrids and if AI androids have a soul.
@@Janika-xj2bv nice
@@Janika-xj2bv Sad but true... and very sad
@Janeka928 Oh no, they won't 'cause reptilians are already in da church - many priests, bishops, cardinals, Popes were/are reptilians.
As a musician, I lament what Vatican II did to liturgy.
We need to open up the windows and let fresh air in the church- John XXIII. The smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary- Paul VI
A meeting or in this case Council, without clear stated objectives is doomed to meander about and create divisive ideas and confusion! Has anyone in corporate or government employ ever participated in a grand meeting without clearly stated goals or objectives? Nope!
Think of it as perestroika in the Vatican ❤️ carpe diem ☺️
The one event that has destroyed the Roman Catholic Church, Vatican II, I’m an old alter boy and I hardly recognize the Mass any more! The Priest should pray with us not at us, terrible music, alter girls? Communion in the hand continues, on and on. Piety gone! God help us! Leaving is my only option. ✝️
Do not leave! Trust in the Lord. You visit the Lord and love him for those who do not love him
Oh please hurry up and leave, all that your complaining about has nothing to do with Jesus.
None of that MATTERS!!!! Stop trying to be RELIGIOUS, and become SPIRITUAL. The Lord is in you, you can find him inside of you, in the homeless man sitting on the corner asking for change. You can find in the baby, taking their first breath. In the dying man, as he takes his last. “MAN” should not be the authority on how we MUST connect, praise, worship, and venerate our Lord. How we do those, is OUR choice. Its our relationship, not anyone elses.
@@matthewharjo7512 Christ himself said not to give creedence to the Hypocrits on the street corner. Rather we are called to be well kept arbiters of the faith; clean, composed, and well written. "Not one iota of the Law shall perish." This is what the Lord said. Spirituality placates the emotions and alludes the senses. Religion adds reason to spirituality and makes it logical. Our Lord, Jesus and the Apostles were masters of Religion not a ragtag group of fishermen that were "just trying to feel it out" but Rabbis well versed in the Liturgical stylings of their age and very well respected among their Jewish peers.
The bottom line is that not many priests in the modern era have really studied the Law nor have they examined the current Constitution of the Mass and enforcement of the proper rubrics have been neglected by the bishops largely in part due to incredulous scandals and poor execution post Vatican II.
I hope this brief synopsis finds you well and reveals a certain and more definitive truth that aids you in your faith.
How dare women do things hahahaha
I hope the TLM returns as the true mass of the Catholic Church. As a person who in his 20, I experience both the TLM and the new mass and realized I was cheated as catholic.
You weren't cheated for the NO it was implementation and bad seminaries for a while with poor catechesis.
@@laddy2737 There is no way to properly "implement" a Protestantized liturgy. Perhaps you should read many of the things Annibale Bugnini actually said about his intentions. Not to mention, we were lied to when they told us they "changed" the Mass. They knew that they colud not change it because it was forbidden. So they made up an entirely new "Mass" in a confenece room. No thanks. I am Catholic and will stick with the Catholic Mass.
Yes, you were cheated. Stay with the Latin Mass and don't look back.
How were you cheated when Christ is present in both? I’ve attended masses in 6 different languages, and many in Latin. It’s not really the language that matters. Proper worship in any language is pleasing to God.
Honestly, BOTH seem to have their appeals, and place
The opening of Pandora Box, zappy, and boom!! Hurricane of heresies entering The Church.
In your opinion.
Why don't you utilize ur time in prayer, than to devise evil plans in ur mind
Martinus Mahendra
" The opening of Pandora Box, zappy, and boom!! Hurricane of heresies entering The Church. "
That began more than 1500 years ago with Roman Emperor Constantine when he instituted his theocracy which began the slow process of evolving into the catastrophe that we see today.
Not once in the entirety of the writings of the Apostles does the word Catholic appear in connection with the Christian church. Christian is the term that derived from Antioch, not Catholic or "Universal". The term has no relevance with regard to the Church defined by Christ through the apostles. It gains relevance only under Theodosius who finally attempts a universal church as a means of holding a collapsing Rome together and stopping fighting between pagans and Christians.
Christ's church was founded on all of the apostles and all of the prophets, Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:19-20), the Rock that Yahweh laid in Zion (Isaiah 28:16), the Rock that Peter spoke of (Acts 4:10-12).
It was well intended but ... scattered and asymmetrical . And at this distance the faithful remain unguided , but there is hope.
It was geniusly crafted and executed by masons when they had enough of their members in positions of power. It was maliciously intended. Dr. T. Marshall traces the history and development in some detail in his book "Infiltration." You might want to read it or see the commentary on ytube.
You speak of hope??? Where is the hope???
If I was the Pope,I would call another Vatican Council(3).There has been
many Issues and Challenges in the Catholic Church,since Vatican
Council 2.They need sorting out.❤️🙏🏻❤️.
Maybe the issues were caused by vatican ii.
noting it's still - all- relevant in The British Isles and Church Universal 2022 +
I feel had John 23rd lived to its conclusion. The ending wouldn't have been so radical but more conservative
I know Vatican II is controversial. Let me give you another POV, those who think it broke the faith. Before Vatican II, the church was seen as a fortress. Hard to get into, unapproachable. Protestants & other denominations were not welcomed in mass. Nor could they follow what was going on.
I was raised Protestant and started attending mass at a Benedictine abbey in adulthood. I could BECAUSE of Vatican II. Now, I’m Catholic, on my own volition learned all the prayers in Latin. (It was actually the rosary that originally drew me to mass). There’s others like me as well. So in that sense, it did open to the doors to new members. Just food for thought. ❤
My grandmother wasn’t catholic and she wasn’t allowed to marry my grandfather in the Catholic Church. This is very true how unapproachable it was . Vatican II was great.
"Precouncil" Church HAD to fall because She was forced to follow two completely irreconcilable positions both at the same time:
1. universal totalism: condemnation of separation of Church and state, freedom of religion and conscience, which by definition defines the public religion as a syncretic and unitarian affair with many different beliefs and points of view, AND
2. The rigid, centralized puritanism, by definition including only a "small but hot" number of practitioners.
Pius IX and X loved writing about the "internal enemies of the Church" but both firmly CONDEMNED the very idea of the "inside" of the Church even existing in the first place. With the Church aiming to be the only public and state religion, with other faiths denied their public rights, all those who would normally just leave the Church to start their own religions, all those - because of the condemnation if freedom to choose one's faith freely - stayed inside, and so with them, their error stayed as well.
This situation cannot be resolved simply because these two conditions cannot be held together.
🤟
666 😱
It means I love you silly
Vatican III should be called to bring the church back to the way it was prior to Vatican II
Nonsense. A new council is needed to continue and reinforce the intentions of Vaticanum II. On the agenda: universal eucharist communion, priest marriage, marriage for all, refraining from interfering with the believers' sexuality.
Most interesting. But does not acknowledge the deep, profound problems and for most observers and participants - unexpected - difficulties and struggles and corporate decay it unleashed on the church and thereby the world, by seeking to embrace the world. It will take more generations to see a way forward. This was not at all a balanced video to ignore this consequence
Couldn't agree more.
What happened was that the changes were enforced without catachesis. When the two young associates brought power saws into the church to separate the altar from the reredos. When we asked him why, they answered, “The Pope said so.” Flash forward to when the new translation of the Roman Missal was going to be introduced, there was five years or more of education, explanation, composition of new Mass music, and etc. It made me wonder if VCII would have been better accepted with the same amount of catechetical.
What seems to have happen was the clergy was not, and continues to this day, not be united when promoting Vatican teachings. I often wonder what the Church would be like today if the clergy were not afraid of addressing, enhancing issues such as woman priest, trusting married couples on issues of divorce and birth control, encourage the laity to take their place in governance. I wonder if victims of sexual abuse would have been supported rather than bankrupting diocese to protect offenders. The documents of Vatican ll has a lot to offer. At times I feel we as church have taken so many steps back. We are once again just starting. Yes this documentary may have taken a “rosey” position, but there is so much to discover yet.
@@nancyraboin647That's fine if you want to be a protestant.
@@johnpglackin345 Perhaps the greatest scandal in the Christian Church is this division between “Catholic” and “Protestant”. Both hierarchy’s keep the feud going. For what purpose I no longer understand. We through the Corporal Works of Mercy speak deeply of our desire of following the Christ.
Who could expect that the liturgy would become guitar 🎸 happy clappy (in a lot of churches)?
The intellectual level being not much higher than the music quality (...).
Where the heck is this guitar happy clappy church Sedevacantists love to complain about? I've never seen one.
@@markcharron why should it be sedevacantist ?? For instance, the very famous french Solesmes abbey celebrates the Novus Ordo missae beautifully ....
In France, we face a problem with the charismatic sects which have been pointed out by the state.
And, they do have a "business" of cd and below average books...
You can find these liturgies on you tube
@@pascalguillot2737 I walk into any church where I am and I just don't see the rock concert that Vatican 2 haters tend to call the church Liturgy nowadays. I typically see a formal Mass.
@@markcharron the charismatic happy clappy music may suit some. I prefer Bach or the plain chant which I learnt from my parents at the age of 8 ...
In France, country of huge cultural heritage everyone seems not to agree what happens and divisions are thick (on both sides ...).
I fancy who is sister act ... But, it's not my practice personally
@@benjamin3541 well it was broke. The anti-modernism of St. Pius 10th had literally locked Catholics down into their own little gehttos in the US and elsewhere, and evangelization was not encouraged.
Adyath mika nayakayaka vimaadi athyavsyama avanka bavi
my history all post about of god is true guidance to every one,if I Ned the peoples,,,
Our Lord Jesus Christ favours the poor, the humble and simple people. Whether they speak Latin or (much more likely) not.
No one disputes the love of Jesus; however, the language of the Church is Latin for very good reason. Just as the language of diplomacy was French for centuries… common tongue allows for intelligent dialogue between those of differing understanding.
The saddest event in the worlds history without a doubt!!
2:22
Well that explains how the church got so fucked up.
and from this the rot set in
"Let us seek what unites us"...alot of donations and tax cuts!
HERESY !!!!!
No John it is not Hersey it is TRUTH
And not a word or even a whisper about child abuse and molestation.
It was not know at that time by the majority of people. Try to understand that the perverts infiltrated the priest so that they could abuse boys and young men.
I am a living contradiction. I am a homosexual. I am a lover of the TLM. I have remained a Catholic though my hardships because of the spirit of love, compassion, and fraternity brought by Vatican II.
I wish Latin was brought to equal standing with national languages and HH. Benedict XVI's Summorum Pontificum was restored.
I wish (though I know it will not happen) that homosexual unions are recognized in the Church, even if in the ancient form of adelphopoiesis.
I recognize that in this age of uncertainty and gloomy predictions and projections, a well-structured church is more appealing to the Millennial and Z generations as an anchor to hold on to as our world transitions into a new societal, political, and economic paradigm.
I believe HH. Francis has opened the doors to a return to a more fundamental Church closer to the minimalistic days of early Christianity -- a church built on faith on the Lord, fraternity for the downtrodden, and forgiveness to our oppressors.
I am thankful to HH St. John XXIII for having the courage to see the need for a different path in the Church. I am thankful to those bishops who still strive to defend the high Tridentine ritual.
Well, I greatly respect your struggle with the that cross you bear. And I appreciate your obvious reverence to love the TLM. But you might want to examine whether Vatican II has deceived you.
Lots of interesting pictures and statistics but ultimately weak content. It's not enough to stitch together extracts from interviews with experts: you also need to join these up with a commentary that adds explanation and perspective. Just one example of editorial negligence: the Latin titles of the various encyclicals are never translated. None of the main theological themes are coherently summarised at any point either. The final section on "Legacy" is particularly weak: it tells us nothing about the actual impact experienced by congregations (e.g. the altar now facing the congregation, other liturgical changes), and nothing about the disputes between conservatives and progressives that must have taken place and how the defeated conservatives reacted. The music is awful: all the most clichéed bits of the classical repertoire intrusively inserted and insensitively chopped into little pieces. In other words, a typical superficial TV documentary. The topic deserves better than this.
It's also a pity that the video's description includes no useful commentary, explanation or background.
The vid is true reflection of the council it talks about: hollow!
I feel so very very sorry for th the sisters who had to give up their habits!!!!
They worked so hard to be brides of our lord jesus christ & John Paul 2 destroyed all these poor sisters joy of being a bride of christ!!!
I remember Franciscan sisters crying and crying, because they had to give up their habits!!!
I would not be surprised if john Paul 2 was in hell!!!
John Paul 2 spent millions of dollars traveling around the world, yet,he never spent 1 penny to dig water wells for people who lived in drought stricken areas,so people could drink clean water & irrigate their fields!!!
All the Vatican 2 catholics say it's too confusing, I don't understand it's confusing ! Or the mass is enough, no, it's not enough. You must have the true Catholic faith.
There is nothing confusing about it !!!
Pope Gregory the 16th 1831 let nothing of the truths that have been defined, it be lessened, nothing altered nothing added, but let them be preserved intact in the word and then meaning.
Vatican Council of 1870 session 3 chapter 4 part 13 and 14 EX cathedra -- for the doctrine of the faith which God has revealed is put forward not as some philosophical Discovery capable of being perfected by human intelligence but as a Divine deposit committed to the spouse of Christ to be Faithfully protected and infallibly promulgated hence to that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding.
Pope Pius the 10th syllabus condemning the errors of the modernists 1907 article 62 : the proposition the chief articles of the Apostles Creed did not have the same sense for the Christians of the first stages as they have for the Christians of our time is hereby condemned as erroneous.
St John of the Cross 1591 wherefore if there be revealed to us anything new or different we must in no way give consent to it not even though it were spoken by an Angel.
St. Thomas Aquinas doctor of the church 1274 all those who deny one Article of Faith regardless of their reason are by that very fact excommunicated.
Pope Eugene the fourth Council of Florence Session 8 1439 ex cathedra whoever Wills to be saved before all things it is necessary that he holds the Catholic faith unless a person keeps this Faith whole and undefiled without doubt He Shall Perish eternally.
Popplio 13th 1896 the practice of the church has always been the same as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the fathers who were want to hold as outside Catholic communion and alien to the church whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of Doctrine proposed by her authoritative magisterium.
Council Florence session 11 February 4th 1442 ex cathedra the Holy Roman Church condemns reproves anathematize has and declares to be outside the body of church which is the Catholic Church whoever holds opposing or contrary views.
Popplio the 10th 5th lateran Council session 8th 1513 EX cathedra and since truth cannot conjure the truth we Define that every statement contrary to the enlightened truth of the faith is totally false and we strictly forbid teaching otherwise to be permitted we decree that all those who cling to erroneous statements of this time this sewing heresies which are wholly condemned should be avoided in every way and punished as detestable and odious Heretics and infidels who are undermining the Catholic faith.
Saint Athanasius God's word is one and the same in the doors forever unchanged always the same
Pope Pius the 9th, qui Pluribus I'm faith and religion November 9th 1846 paragraph 20 never cease to instruct all men in it never tolerating and letting pass anyting which could in the slightest degree defiled the purity of this faith. What the same great strength of Mind Foster and all men their Unity with the Catholic church outside of which there is no salvation
Pope Saints sixtus 3 nothing new is to be allowed for nothing can be added to the old look for the faith of the elders and do not let our faith be disturbed by a mixture of new doctrines
St Vincent of Lerins 445, all novelty in faith is ashore Mark of heresy Saint Paul Cried Out aloud again and again to all men to all times and to all places that if anyone announces a new doctrine let him be anathematized.
If there is a change YOU ARE NOT TO SUPPORT IT OR embrace it IN ANY WAY !!!
There is no confusion unless you're a heretic and belong to the vatican 2 fake church, there is no confusion for true Catholics, I'll say that again there is no confusion for the true Catholics the teachings of the church are simple and clear. Nothing is to be changed !!!!! Nothing !! If you disagree with this your excommunicated from the church you no longer are Catholic you no longer have a father in Heaven !!!
Turned out to be the springboard catapulting me, early college student, out of the church. No longer either baby or bathwater left.
Jesus would just knock over bigger tables at the biggest temple of all.
Traditional mass is powerful, but new mass is a drama
Despite an optimistic approach of the Council Vatican II, it was a huge disaster for the Catholic Church
Even though they're saint's it's in God's hands, Satan's hands are not has god's hands.
We thank and praise You O God the Holy Holy Spirit for Your continuing Guidance of the Holy Catholic Church,
particularly in the 2nd Vatican Council and transformative decisions. We pray You Kindly Light to continue
to be with the Church in the effective implementation of these decisions towards the holiness and unification of God’s children ,
through Jesus Christ our Lord , living in Mary. In union and through Mary, our Mother we sincerely continue to thank
You , O Paraclete, “ My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour”…..
“Moreover, some and even most of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give to the Church itself, can exist outside the the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit and visible elements too.”
- Paul VI, Unitatis Redintegratio, No. 3, Nov. 21, 1964
“With faith urging us, we are forced to believe and to hold the one holy Catholic Church and that apostolic and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) outside which there is no salvation nor remission of sin …”
- Pope Boniface VIII, ex cathedra bull, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302
Just what evidence do you have the changes of Vatican II are the result of guidance by the Paraclete? Because I think the falling numbers of vocations is evidence of the demonic influence on Vatican II.
The world has changed so much today, that there should be another Ecumenical Council. Pope Francis is the perfect modern pope to call it, as he is rather a revolutionary Pope in his own right. The place of the Church in the place of the modern world has to be made clear and there is no more better forum than that of a 3rd Vatican Council.
Yeah, why not?! Let him continue to correct our Lord by Changing the Lord's Prayer (Yes, he actually did), pushing the LGBTQrstuvwxyz agenda, Denying the dogma of Hell (as he did in Amoris Laetitia), and suppressing the Traditional Mass. Yaye!
The next Pope will be a conservative African or Asian! No 1960s Latin American type!
It seems like Pope Francis is not Catholic. You have to be Catholic in order to be Pope. As well as a priest.
Thousands years ago there seat the father of Christianity the holy Roman emperor CESAR where all Kings and kingdoms of the world gathered to the Basilica of the righteous father Patre Pio a Original the Good Emperor Anthony Pio the first Christians where the 12 saints with their King Saint Paul in return glorious from Jerusalem the holy temple after a word wide building churches for to fashion the most remote tribes of Man to have a heavenly life stile as God created MAN in his Image to be in harmony with each other as good friend and as brother to have one God so since than than Christianity has been a servant of God's creation to Asher All mankind in God's kingdom of MESSIAH The Prince of Peace may their be such gathering in Jerusalem soon united as one world with God
Acredito que o Vaticano vai mudar para mais transparência e verdade com FRANCISCO.
So viele Zuhälter des Bordels der römischen Götzen des planetarischen "Christentums" auf einem Mal zusammen habe ich noch nie gesehen.
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"A wicked council...the Church will bleed from all her wounds."
How is it wicked? I think a lot is misunderstood about the council. I for one am in agreement for having the mass in the language of the people. The church being more ecumenical in dealing with protestants, brought me into the church. I can't imagine how evangelization would be effective if one has to also learn a new language to be assimilated. Understanding the breadth of the faith can take a life time in a language one understands.
quod in identitate cuiusque ROMAN. Relinquere COMMENT TARDE
Vatican II - A normal council? Hermeneutic of continuity or hermeneutic of inversion?
The mind of the early Church was specific although her formulated doctrine was less specific. For that reason the formulated doctrine needed to be constantly specified to better articulate WHAT WAS ALREADY BELIEVED. Whereas the post-conciliar trend is to modify the mind of the Church to conform to a more generically formulated doctrine.
Did Vatican II leave out or ignore some essential Catholic Doctrine?
A consideration of Vatican II using the concepts of genus and species.
Without getting into the historical background, inner workings and doctrinal details of the Vatican II documents and rather relying on what most Catholics know about it, the following analogy I think is most revealing:
Aristotle says that the natural way of learning and coming to know things is from the generic to the more specific. Just as when we see something moving in the distance we first identify it as a body and then as it moves closer an animal and even closer a man and finally as this particular person; Socrates.
Now it needs to be understood that there is a difference between our knowledge of a thing and the thing itself. Furthermore if someone were to give the definition of the species of a thing instead of giving the definition of the genus of that thing one would give a more precise and fuller account of the thing. In other words, the more specific our knowledge becomes of something the closer our knowledge resembles the thing, the truer our knowledge is. (Truer, in the sense of having more truth. Adeguatio res et intellectus)
This is the natural way man comes to know. To try to move in the opposite direction is unnatural and against human nature. To try to forget what one already KNOWS about something in order to know it more generically is an act of violence against oneself. It would entail force that goes against one's own nature. Using an analogy this would be like a seasoned cavalier who has known horses his whole life attempting to not consider a horse anymore as a horse but rather as an unspecified animal.
Now what is more generic and less specific is more universal. Whereas as what is more specific is more exclusive, in the sense that an essential difference is added to the genus in order to define the species. This sets it apart from other species. In the same way when one says the word animal it can apply to many things. Whereas, when one says man it excludes many things and applies to just one type of animal. Now, things that exist in reality ARE NOT generic they are specific.
The Church founded by Our Lord is a real existing reality. It is something specific with its own essential elements and properties. A specific account of the Church includes more essential elements than a generic one.
The Councils, pronouncements and doctrines throughout the ages became more and more specific. The Church's awareness of itself approached more and more the reality of its own being. It is impossible to move in the other direction. In other words it is impossible to move from a specific knowledge to a more general confused knowledge. A generic knowledge of anything is always more confused than a specific one, just as knowing something only in so far as it is an animal is more confused than knowing it specifically. Instead, our knowledge specifies as we gain acquaintance and experience of a thing.
One may object that the Apostles or early Christians had a very clear and specific knowledge of the Church. This is true. However the Church's formulated doctrine was not as specific. Throughout the centuries this doctrine became better formulated and more specific. This was necessary especially to rule out heresy and error. A more generic knowledge on the other hand leaves out essential elements since it can never define as well and as close to reality as a specific account can. Take for instance the treasure of Dogmas the Church has and considering for instance the doctrine of Transubstantiation or the Immaculate Conception. These are very well defined truths of our faith. To try and forget about them and return to a more generic explanation would, at this point in time, leave out essential elements. One may ask, why say "at this point in time" would entail leaving out essential elements? Its necessary to say "at this point in time" since one could object and say that the early Church's catechising was not as formulated as it was post Council of Trent, yet we cannot say that the Church left out essential elements in its teaching at that time. This is true and that is the point. When heresies attacked the faith of the Church, as what happened with Luther's idea of the Real Presence during mass, the older formulation of what happens during the consecration was no longer specific enough. Therefore the Church better and more specifically defined this miracle using the concept of transubstantiation. Any teaching now on the Real Presence which left out the concept of transubstantiation would at this point in time leave out what has become essential elements. Unless we would pretend that the threat of heretical interpretations no longer persists and a generic account would immediately render a correct understanding. However we know this is not the case.
Now, in order for Vatican II to be less divisive, open to non Catholics and ALSO IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE CONSENSUS AMONGST THE COUNCIL FATHERS, THE COUNCIL HAD TO REVERSE THE NATURAL PROCEDURE AND PROCLAIM SOMETHING MORE GENERIC THAN PREVIOUS COUNCILS.
Now, one could argue that the council taught no error. Entering into this debate is not easy and not for the most of us. However knowing that the council purposefully decided to be less specific and more generic is known by all of us. Can we say that a generic knowledge of a thing is deficient compared to a fuller specific knowledge of a thing? Trying to go against oneself and forget what one once knew or defined creates the impression that one must have been wrong once upon a time. Because why else would one try to forget or forget to mention what one once knew or defined?
How many people do we know who have used Vatican II to look back and interpret older Councils? Anything more specific than the Council is frowned upon as superfluous and outdated. But does truth age? Never the less can we blame them for acquiring this habit when this is a natural consequence of artificially regressing and not progressing in knowledge? Of trying to be less specific and more generic? Furthermore, there is a prevalent assumption amongst "post conciliar" Catholics that Vatican II attempted to strip Catholicism of whatever is non essential. But, this leads to a contradiction since to hold this view would be to believe that a specific account is less essential than a generic account. This is the same as saying that the definition of man as rational animal is less essential than defining him as an animal.
I would therefore like to ask:
Why do we think Vatican II is supposed to be a type of update of Catholicism or a type of refocusing of the Church on what is really essential? Did the Council Fathers intentionally want to be less specific for the sake of truth or was this a consequence of trying to find consensus both internally and with the outside world? Was the Church's self awareness and identity diminished on account of this? Following the proverb Lex orandi lex credendi and its just as true corollary lex credendi lex orandi is it fair to say that an analogy can be drawn: as the new council (specific to generic) compares to the organic evolution of doctrine (generic to specific) so does the new mass compare to the organic evolution of the ancient mass? This leads to the next question: in trying to reverse the natural progression from generic to specific and trying to return to the more generic with the excuse of returning to the mode of expression of the early Church does the real danger exists of actually becoming more generic than the early Church itself? There is an essential difference here: the mind of the early Church was very specific although her formulated doctrine was less specific. For that reason the formulated doctrine needed to be constantly specified to better articulate WHAT WAS ALREADY BELIEVED. Whereas the post-conciliar trend is to modify the mind of the Church to conform to a more generically formulated doctrine.
Do you really think people are going to read this?
@@jacksparrow1057 Only a few.
Hey buddy. Write your books on your own time. Besides no one understands what you say anyway.
@@garyolsen3409 Its only written for those who are capable to understand it. It was never intended for those who cannot.
If you cannot express something complex simply you do not understand it fully or cannot express it succinctly!
Jesus Christ instituted the Sacraments of His Church He was true God and true Man. The Jewish Passover Prayers said in the Temple in Jerusalem were about Him. Yes His Own Death Prayers. He and His Apostles carried out the religious observances of the Jews. Jesus and His Apostles attended the Temple in Jerusalem for Passover Prayers on the night He was betrayed. Those Passover Prayers are in the Tridentine Mass.
Shortly after the Jews gain Israel the Perpetual Sacrifice will be removed and the Abomination of Desolation replaced therin then comes the end of the Gentiles. Novus Ordo is a Counterfeit and the Abomination of Desolation.
the church of god is true, but need guidance through of god,,
I'm Vietnamese and we respond in mass when the priest say "God be with you", we say "and with you Father". This has very special meaning in Vietnamese.
In English, we say "and with your Spirit". This doesn't make sense to me at all.
"And with your Spirit" is the closer translation to the original Latin response of "Et cum spiritu tuo."
It sounds like you are not doing the Mass properly. No matter the language we should be praying the Mass the same way.
The Bishops didn't know that a couple of years after they signed Sacramentum Concilium, I would be in a Newman Center Chapel in the Diocese of Peoria, IL, and Father Like would discard his vestments and "concecrate" pretzels, pizza, and cigarettes, beer coke, and pepsi, instead of bread and wine.
Then he was not following the council
@@kei_on_tv8157 of course not. the only thing he was following was his own whims.
Fact: No anathemas were pronounced in this council, making it the only one without that.
(Not that it was legitimate anyway)
*_It should have anathematized itself!_*
czcams.com/video/IX97Qg4DIJU/video.html
It was legitimate. All ecumenical councils are (unless you're a protestant or sedevacantist, but I repeat myself.)
@@admiralbob77 Sorry, but the Sedevacantists appear to be right, and you really aren’t giving any better options.
Because to follow your path means to accept idolatry, exonerate the deiciders, say that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church, etc.
@@admiralbob77 It was a nonbinding council, Paul VI said so.
@@collectiveconsciousness5314 Good comment. I'm sedevacant. Ecumenism was the biggest error that came out of V II. Every pope since Pius XII has perpetuated it with impunity.
I wish this never happened 😞😭🙏
Seriously guys, maybe the New Liturgy has its flaws but the Council itself is the most beautiful transformation of the Church in the last centuries. The idea of mercy and compassion to the whole world that this Council thought is what our Lord Jesus wants us to do.
The council was opened by satanic rituals and was arguably the worst thing to ever happen to the church, it massacred the faith and was headed by known Freemasons such as Archbishop Bugnini
🤣
Mercy was always there. If you commit a sin. Than you confess your sins to the priest. And than Our Lord through His priest absolves you of your sins. Their is your mercy.
@@johnpglackin345 what I mean to say is the Church has become more compassionate and charitable to the world than it projects herself as an institution who is the only righteous, unlike the Pharisees
@@r41n31 but now we have empty pews. And many people commit sacrilegious communion at Mass. And the Church no longer speaks with a moral voice. Many souls are not saved.
The beginning of the end of the Church we had known for Centuries starting with the destruction of the Mass and then the other Sacraments... The Church brutally turned its' back on its' won people in order to welcome peoples of other Faiths..... The choice had been made.... And how did that turn out ? Empty Churches....
Vatican II is not a practical approach for lay people. Church priests are become kings
Let’s default to the Holy Catholic Bible, “you will know them by their fruit” no matter where you land
on Vatican II look at its “rotten fruit” I’m old enough to have lived through the “change” and it’s been
Hell to watch the Catholic Church self-destruct. The only thing achieved? Protestantism! 👎👎✝️
Then who is stopping u. U won't be missed I promise
@@avrilblanchefisher8432 Are you a new pope we have not heard about yet? You seem to speak (or rather bitch around) on behalf of the whole church.
Pride that even Satan himself would envy.
@@vaniberi8189 say as u wish. Just by the use of ur words, u are obviously a heavily burdened person with a deep seated hatred that is only in your head And your heart. Live your life and pave ur way to eternity u are not big enuff to carry the world on ur shoulders. God for all, and all for God. And no, iam not a Pope, will never be, just a humble Catholic defending my faith against people like u. May God bless u and grant u inner peace.
Thank God for V2
I would not be Catholic today had it not been for V2.
Me too
And I was pushed out because of it.... How Christian..
@@sluzardo5879 what'd ya do?
@@JesseDLC continued to adhere to Catholic teaching before the Council and went to the Latin Mass.....
and millions that left do not count right?....:)
417
Many Popes have been prisoners in the Holy See, surrounded by Masonic groups
Monday, May 7th, 2012 @ 18:19
My dearly beloved daughter, to My churches through the world I say this:
Know that I will always be with you at your side, as long as you proclaim My Most Holy Word.
To My Catholic Church, even though you caused torment as a result of evil sin, know that I will never forsake you, although you have sinned. But know this.
Your faith in Me, is not as strong as it should be. You do not love Me, as you once did.
All the wealth you accumulated, put a distance between Me, your Christ and Saviour and God’s ordinary children.
You scaled such lofty heights, that I could not reach up to you and offer you My Hand to salvage you from the rot within your core.
You were taught the Truth by My Peter, upon whose Rock you were built. And what did you do?
You built thick stone walls around you.
This caused a lack of communication with those whom you needed to feed with My Body and Blood, so that their souls could be nourished.
The respect required of you in administering My Most Holy Eucharist, was lost, when you demeaned My Presence.
When Vatican II declared new rules, they were introduced, by those evil Masonic forces, from within your corridors.
They cunningly presented new ways to administer My Holy Eucharist, which are insulting to Me.
Your so-called tolerant teachings proclaimed a series of lies, including the refusal to acknowledge the power of Saint Michael the Archangel.
He is the protector of the Church against Satan. Those forces among you knew this. This is why you stopped all prayers, requesting his help, before Me at Mass.
Then you perpetrated the biggest untruth, that Hell was not to be feared. That it was just a metaphor. For this lie, accepted as the Truth by many of God’s children, has meant the loss of billions of souls.
How you offend Me. For those humble and sacred servants among you, I ask that you go back to My Teachings.
Never allow riches to accumulate amongst you and think that they are acceptable in My Eyes.
Riches, gold and power accumulated in My Name, will be your downfall. You cannot profit from My Holy Word.
You have suffered because of the way you have offended Me.
Never think that I Am blaming the many holy popes who have sat in the Seat of Peter. Their Mission has always been protected.
Many popes have been prisoners in the Holy See, surrounded by Masonic groups, who do not represent God.
They hate God and have spent fifty years spreading untruths, about the Mercy of God.
Their works have led to the collapse of the Catholic Church.
This was not an accident. It was deliberately and cunningly plotted in order to destroy the faith of the Church, to destroy the homage of ordinary Catholics, to the One True God.
For this, you will now be cast aside into the wilderness. After Pope Benedict, you will be led by Me, from the Heavens.
Oh how you have made Me weep.
I call on all of My sacred servants, who know the Truth, to stand up and follow Me, your Jesus, to spread the Truth of My Teachings in humble servitude. You must find the courage and the strength to rise from the ashes.
Above all, reject the lies, which will shortly be presented to you by the false prophet.
He will merge the Catholic Church with other churches, including pagan churches, to become one abomination, a one world church without a soul.
Your Jesus
“It is of course possible to read the Old Testament so that it is not directed toward Christ; it does not point unequivocally to Christ. And if Jews cannot see the promises as being fulfilled in him, this is not just ill will on their part, but genuinely because of the obscurity of the texts. There are perfectly good reasons then, for denying that the Old Testament refers to Christ and for saying, ‘No, that is not what he said.’ And there are also good reasons for referring it to him - that is what the dispute between Jews and Christians is about.”
- Joseph Ratzinger, God and the World, page 209, 2000
“Search the scriptures, for you think in them to have life everlasting; and the same are they that give testimony of me. And you will not come to me that you may have life. I receive glory not from men. But I know you, that you have not the love of God in you. I am come in the name of my Father, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive glory one from another: and the glory which is from God alone, you do not seek? Think not that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one that accuseth you, Moses, in whom you trust. For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
- John 5:39-47
hey Mystical Mysticism Mystic play Misty for me You are a just a mystical magical misty mist.
Upon completing the 'Protestantization' of the former Roman Catholic Church, between the late sixties and late eighties, a hundred thousand priests dropped out, ninety thousand nuns dropped out, the seminaries were vacant as the seminarians dropped out in droves. Presently, there is some sort of Catholic/Anglican/Congregationalist blend with clowns in the Mass, rock and roll music in the mass, one mass I heard all the parishoners were nude. Pope Pium V and Pope Pius X warned us against modernizing the mass. Pope John XXIII didn't listen hoping for a 'big tent' where the Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestants would all join in. Hence: Vatican II was an abysmal failure.
Holy Roman Catholic Church
The evisceration of the Holy mass
That's funny because the Council had nothing to do with liturgical reform. The pope always determines the liturgy, not ecumenical councils.
YJMJR : Vatican 1 and 2 : Glorious . Making For The Church lasting throughout The Years in The face of nothing but adversity from The World . Ave Maria .
I think it was a great Council that served to group and renew the Church. The successive Popes, especially John Paul II, developed it that way and put it into practice. I pray for all Christians.
Wsed
Not to be a naysayer, but for what good Vatican 2 accomplished … much confusion (purposed imo) was sown. If one cast even a casual eye towards the condition that the Church finds itself in, It would stretch credibility to advance the opinion the the Universal Church is better off for the teachings of Vatican 2. The Novus Ordo Mass remains a liturgy that lacks the solemn character of the Old Mass. The modern vestments somehow reflect this impoverishment . Churches are closing, fewer parishioners in the pews, more and division with respect to settled Doctrine, a vocation crisis that-though not as pressing as in last decades-continues. Worst yet, wide spread rejection of the belief in the Blessed Sacrament. On balance, Vatican 2 carries a great deal of negative baggage from sloppy wording and vague theology.
It’s always messy after a council. No other religion can pull councils like this. You should be proud as a Catholic.
You are correct, it is certainly the case that the aftermath of a council is typically uglier that what preceded it; however, this stands out for the fiasco that it was. In the era of almost instant communication- unlike any previous council, one could be forgiven for calling it a shit show. JP2 and Benedict tried to pull back, but Francis will accelerate the confusion. And that is what you get when you elevate a Jesuit to the Papacy. That order was so close to being suppressed by JP2 … and it is a crying shame it was not done. The Church always produces its own worst enemies, and Francis is the example par excellence. A great many souls will be lost in consequence- and Vatican 2 deserves much of the blame.
@@patrickdean4853 I hear what you are saying, I definitely think you are wrong though. One thing that I think you should consider dropping is that the Holy Father doesn’t have the faithfuls best intentions at heart. You can ponder his intentions but you cannot justly contradict him. That’s why we are Catholic after all, unlike the Protestants and Orthodox.
@@commissary4196 read The Jesuits by Maliki Martin- that book was recommended to me by my former friend and Ordinary- Bishop Robert Morlino… a former Jesuit. Nothing this is going on with Francis is a misunderstanding. The Jesuits have a great deal to answer for regarding the last 60 years of malfeasance. Putting one in the seat of Peter is mind blowing to say the least. Francis will undue most of the progress in taming Vatican 2 abuses. Again, read The Jesuits and I think you will see things from a different perspective
@@patrickdean4853 You’re right, when you read authors such as Malachi Martin you see things from a different perspective. So much so, that you will go against the promise Christ made to us that the ‘gates of hell shall not prevail’. Have faith in Christ not Irish storytellers. It’s fiction not faction, as Malachi calls it.
Some people just hate change. And will never forgive or forget that Vatican II changed things that even Jesus would have found foreign.
Yes, the Catholic Church still does a lot of good in the world, but the corruption is unconscionable.
I still think Jesus, who didn’t speak Latin, by the way, would approve of the prayer, the Mass, being said in the vernacular, where it could be understood better. He would approve of congregations participating actively, willingly.
But it’s interesting that there is selective rejection of papal infallibility when it’s something someone disagrees with.
John Paul II inspired with his embrace of Vatican II. How long until he is rejected by the Vatican II haters?
Why did the Temple fall because they sacrificed the Symbolic Paschal Lamb Sacrifice and now it was time for the real Lamb to be Sacrificed. Jews had true worship they worshipped the Messiah in advance. Work in Progress. Imposters and Apostates and Hirelings handing down diluted Protestantism.
It was a colossal mistake. The statement at the beginning of the video was correct in saying it was not a church event. Hence it had no place in the Vatican. It has been misinterpreted and abused by the bureaucracy entrusted with implementing it. It defied many of the most important church laws regarding how is council is conducted. That it had no purpose and no real issue to address, according to this video, in some ways explains how it became the disaster that it is. I am 5 minutes and 32 seconds into this video and already I have learned important facts as stated in this video and I have addressed in this comment. The council occurred pretty much with my birth and I can tell you that the fruits of this council are not good as is obvious even to me, a council baby. And it is only getting worse. A quick example. A sacrament is defined as something implemented by Christ, that confers grace and that has a physical act as a component. The Priesthood is a sacrament. Christ did not confer the priesthood on any woman, not even his own mother who is obviously held in very high regard by the Catholic Church. And yet, there is an irrational impulse in the church to defy the obvious intent of the all knowing God, Jesus Christ, and establish women in the priesthood. See the definition of a sacrament above. It is lunacy. This was the easiest one to explain but the church of today is full of bad decisions that directly conflict with every church decision prior to Vatican II.
Judgment is coming for that old scarlet harlot.
Vatican II...a shameful affair !
Vatican 2 saved the church
LOL
@@vaniberi8189 of course
How?
What did Vatican II save the church from?
Very disappointing of the council
They will answer to God for replacing the Latin Tridentine Mass with the bogus Novus Ordo abomination of desolation. St Pius X warned of Modernism. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of the SSPX gave me back the Latin Tridentine Mass of my youth and Deo gratias for him.
So do you really think a Mass that could be understood by the people hearing it (because it’s their own language) is a bad thing? Though Latin sounds beautiful and elegant - but only a tiny select few could understand it. Isn’t it much preferable to communicate with God with a language you understand instead of parrot-like repetitions of prayers beyond your comprehension? Someone once ask to read a prayer with words I don’t understand. I refuse to do it because I didn’t know what I’d be praying about.
@@erigerontriteleia the main problem was, little by little, to cancel centuries of sacred music !
Here in France, they closed the sacred music institutes... the result is now and emphasizes the crisis ... TLM and charismatic happy clappy have a number of extreme.
I can't agree with the ketchup liturgy where the questioning is also very little !
@TruthSeeker75 despite my defense of tradition as french singer and organist, I am very oecumenical and know very well the Calvinistic and Anglican traditionS.
One must repeat and repeat the indult Agatha Christie 1971, Catholics, protestants and Jews defended the tridentine mass.
(Yehudi Menuhin and Vladimir Ashkenazy...)
@TruthSeeker75 I am Roman Catholic and (also for family reasons) oecumenical ... Music being the go between ?
And you ?
@TruthSeeker75 sola Gratia
Truth is rarely pure and never simple
"La foi sans les œuvres n'est rien"