MPs wipe floor with disgraceful Post Office in House of Commons
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- čas přidán 7. 01. 2024
- MPs from all corners of the House line up to slam the Post Office, who sought litigation against subpostmasters.
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Private eye has been publishing stories on this since 2011. Other media outlets posted online stories about it in 2009. The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats ignored this during their coalition, and consecutive Conservatives have ignored it since. And now Sunak is going to try to use the suffering of these people to score political points in an election year. It is absolutely pathetic.
Yep and still he doesn't understand as he said "This happened in the 90s".
Pathetic. It’s nauseating.
Welcome to politics....we can't enact change voting shitty people into office and allowing laws to change that support them. Sadly I doubt many wrong do'ers will receive justice
You are 100% correct. And the Tories gave the CBE to Vennells in 2019. They must have known that there was at least a good deal of suspicion about her conduct. Still, the Tories think thay can get away with anything. They will have a rude awakening at the ballot box.
Cheap political opportunism from the Tories..
It is absolutely vomit inducing that politicians are suddenly wanting action on this after a TV drama series, when for many, many years most of them did nothing even though they knew all about it. Utterly sickening.
Election time that’s why!
This just illustrates how MP's, Peers and the civil service views all of the rest of us, not just the Postmasters. How the Post Office can be allowed to keep its Royal Mail title after this monumental scandal is beyond comprehension.
Said exactly the same all want to boost votes but fa doing about it in past 20 years has been many panorama shows about it . But on other hand everyone high level at post office passing the buck. It's state owed so for comp taxes going to rise to offset it about the only thing I'm happy about if they do to get victims at least so back of what they owed
Agree 👍
Good comment from @mattwright2964, absolutely spot on!! If I ever meet you in a pub I'd buy you a drink!!
What a bunch of hypocrites ---- the majority of them have been in Parliament throughout this debacle AND said nothing until a TV programme exposed their own incompetence in not 'smelling the rat'. If they did nothing until the RV programme WHAT are they in Parliament for ?
I saw Patel speaking. Yet when she was Home Secretary, she did nothing, absolutely nothing, to right these wrongs which were well in the public eye by that point. She has a lot to say now. But like so many modern tories, they say a lot but do very little. Nauseating.
Can I point out it was not Patel , But Starmer as DPP at the time to intervene, He did not !!!!
Kier Stammer was Director of Public Prosecutions at the time. More to blame.
@@denzel270 The post office has the unique powers to investigate and prosecute without recourse to other authorities. You trying to score cheap political points.
900 victims, in reality every single MP knew about this, but said very little. Just like tainted blood, Shrewsbury Hospital, Guildford 4, Birmingham 6, Windrush, Grenfell. They don't act until the public force them.
Horizon was bought under Tony Blair for a billion quid, for 8 yrs the labour government had this and did nothing. PP was home security 2019 to 2022. David blunket was home secretary for 3yrs then it was Charles Clarke.
Good point but I’d include all politicians and not just the tories
There's more than a touch of jumping on the band wagon among many of these MPs. Where were they 10+ years ago when this scandal first emerged. Let's not forget these people were elected to serve us not just themselves.
True but for god sake let them use this power for some justice
It was over 20 years the problems started, from 1999, so where were the labour government? Upto their eyeballing illegal wars!
it's all just theatre to them
Well said.
Especially Priti Patel, who literally was home secretary.
Why the hell has it taken a TV programme to get these people off their well-paid backsides and taking action? Computer Weekly and Private Eye laid the problem bare over a decade ago. The main villains are the PO and Fujitsu, but our MPs have been asleep at the wheel.
Because it’s an election year and these muppets all want to be seen doing something. Shame they never got off their fat arses when innocent people were taking their own lives.
Because most voters are too lazy to read and hold their government to account. They want everything spoon-fed to them through the TV. You can bet that most people who are furious about this scandal haven't even bothered to fact check whether the programme is a good representation of the events or not.
Well, in fairness, Arbuthnot was a champion for the subpostmasters
Because its election year so they have to make out as if they care and are doing something now
Public pressure
Talk about jumping on a bandwagon This scandal has been public knowledge for a good few years but it takes a TV documentary to get MPs to react
Yep
There was an MP, I think he was a Lord as well who was campaigning with them since the start because 4 of his constituents were involved. He was on the dicumentary portion.
@@pial3270 James Arbuthnot
Election year!
@@pial3270 Conservative MP James Arbuthnot campaigned with them and seemed to genuinely care about getting justice. As was said in the drama, can't believe a Tory MP could be so likeable
I remember reading about this 10 years ago, crazy how it has to be on a tv drama for anyone to pay attention
I watched the panorama documentary in 2016
Election year does wonders to make the government pay attention.
Not a single person who was responsible for this disgraceful miscarriage of justice will spend one second in jail or prison. They probably won't even have to pay the millions of pounds they received in bonuses as they were demanding years in prison for so many innocent people as they destroyed their lives and futures for ever.
True. They should all be investigated by the police. That would be true justice.
paula venables has GOD at her side - do not mess with the fictional Deity!
As ever, they will walk away with their golden handshakes and massive index linked pensions to their homes and second homes etc. They will not lose one penny or a moments sleep. It *always* works like that. Look at those who ignored all the warnings in the Lucy Letby case. TOLD by several staff what was going on and did nothing... yet walk away free as birds . They get the massive salaries because of the supposed big responsibility.... yet never ARE held to responsibility.
The whole system including the judiciary stink to high heaven with incompetence and corruption
There was a group of people in New York, (Who behaved similar to the Post office Investigators), who used to go from shop to shop, demanding money from shop owners, they were called The Mafia.
Slow clap for our politicians 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Far too little, far too late.
Isnt this always the case? We have the worst cohort of MP's in my lifetime ATM.
Starmer and Davey are neck deep in This
What about the share holders Ed Davey and starmer who was head of the cps when innocent people were sent to jail suicides lives ruined what was starmer doing seriously.
Typical tory voters, deflecy and defer...@@stephencollins9062
Isn't it crazy how the workers have been exploited and fighting for decades, and then ITV makes one sodding feature, and boom.
Yes however where were the 'public' before this; it was all in the public domain, and on most news outlets reports for years, if not decades; but didn't affect them 'directly'; so we get the government and institutions, we collectively, deserve.
I think you will find the looming general election has something to do with it!
What gets me is this was in the news years ago and where was the outcry? We knew it was a travesty of justice back then but the MP’s started quiet. It’s only because of the TV drama that whey are now acting, to try to appear like they give a shit. Absolutely shameful
MPs represent their constituents interests. If their constituents aren't interested, neither should the MP, unless it would be in their constituents interest which, apart from general reasons on justice in society, this story is unfortunately not (only a few hundred affected compared to a population in the millions).
@@DarkHelixia that’s a pretty outrageous statement to be honest.
Suddenly MP’s are outraged. This has been going on for over a decade. Must be an election year.
Exactly. Nothing more needs to be said. Except, a lot more.
It’s been going on for nearly 25 years…. 1/4 century!!!!
Yep, exactly that. Still purely self serving.
This is a disgrace She should be behind bars the CEO of Post office and Edd Davy should stand down
What about all the other who came before him and after him ? Didn't they do exactly the same
I am eternally thankful that I didn't take over our suboffice after my mother retired in 1983 as she expected me to. I couldn't have coped with all that these people have had to deal with. My family ran that suboffice from 1909. I remember that day in 1983, like it was yesterday, when we closed that for good. The way these subpostmasters have been treated is nothing short of wickedness.
wickedness - oh well... bojo's not bothered. SILENCE - cue - ON - go: Now welcome our first contestant on Ant and Dec's "I'm a Celebrity, get me out of this post office!
@@edwardalexander9486 Well, we know that Johnson - the 'Trappist Womble' - isn't bothered. There's a reason why decent people wouldn't work with him and why only to$$erS will.
Remember it took the victims and their families of the Hillsborough tragedy 27 years to get a real inquest into the disaster and because of the time lag didn't get the justice they deserved. Those responsible for this gross miscarriage of justice must not be allowed to get off as lightly as those responsible for the Hillsborough tragedy did.
Exactly. If we weren't such a stubborn, militant city nothing would have been done at all. It took cameras rolling recording a packed Anfield chanting "Justice for the 96". With the current PO situation, someone had to write a script about it for the majority of people to even hear about it. As a nation, we're such sheeple; we let politricktians get away with too much. There is never accountability where there should be, especially under a Tory government.
Has Windrush been wound up yet?
@@johnjephcote7636 of course not, but it's on their invisible list.
I absolutely agree about the similarity. Jimmy McGovern's excellent drama showed what really happened at Hillsborough but it still took 20 years and 2 public enquiries before it was finally admitted that those who died at the time, and one later, had been unlawfully killed.
@@sophiabee8924 I think Grenfell is on that same list.
An absolute disgrace, someone needs to be accountable for this.
Not someone, many, many individuals need bringing to book.. Prison sentences have to be dished out too...🤨
I too am angry at something about something I didn't know about until 4 eeks ago. But will Carrrybon. Xx
They have their own police security service, nevermind secret. It's called the Metropolitan Force, London.
LOL high rollers held accountable, you clearly don't know how this country works....
Perhaps the leader who dished out the CBE for a kick off (Johnson).
It only took them 20 years.
Nice little earner
And nothing will be done about this disgrace in the next 20 years. All hot air!
I worked for a company that was responsible for repairing or replacing post office equipment. We exchanged equipment and then downloaded the same software and the problems continued and yet nobody realised that the software was the problem not the kit. One team went out and replaced every bit of equipment at one site, including cables and still no realisation that it wasn't the kit
😂😂😂 It's a joke that politicians blame the post office for this! They had countless opportunities to demand a forensic investigation in to this! Will they blame the NHS for failing to take action in regard to the incredible rise in excess deaths EVEN THOUGH they've thrown Andrew Bridgen's requests for proper debate and investigation on many occasions!?
So it's "politicians" and not "Conservative politicians". You Tories aren't even trying any more.
@@davidhoward4715 😂😂😂 I hate tories as much as all politicians... they do NOTHING for the benefit of mankind!
The in-house solicitors also need to be included as it must have been impossible for them not to have had an inkling as to what was happening yet they continued to prosecute knowingly and raking in a fortune in the process.
I've watched the testimony of Jarnail Singh, and he is definitely for the high jump.
He is one that must go down.
What was Priti Petal doing about this case whilst she was Home Secretary?
Snearing probably.
what was Kier Stammer was Director of Public Prosecutions at the time doing? Not a home secretary role, Vince Cable was business secretary and Edd Davey refused to meet the then campaigner for those accused.
@@denzel270 Really? When Keir Stammer was DPP, over 4m cases were persued by the CPS. Do you really expect him to know about every single one. 11 out of 900 were pursueded by the CPS, based on Horizon evidence! In case you don't know the PO have the powers to investigate and prosecute independently of other authorities.
You're trying to score cheap poitical points by highlighting your poltical opponents. Like 30p Lee Anderson, it's unedifying and cheap.
My point is that 900 people were prosecuted. it stands to reason that there was at least one victim in each constituency. Every MP knew about it
If it was that important to MP's then every single MP should have been raising questions. Not jumping on the bandwagon.
Just like The Guildford 4, The Birmingham 6, The Macguire Family, Tainted Blood, Shrewsbury Hospital, Windrush, Grenfell, they all know about them but didn't do anything.
They only act with vigour when the public get's upset, and the public have taken years to get upset. It's been reported often enough.
Mark Flynn , got it right yesterday when he said they never stood a chance against The Westminster Establishment.
watching Priti Patel opine about standards in public life just exploded my irony meter.
Typical MP's of all parties. It's only taken them 25 years to jump on the bandwagon. Most of the MP's had no time for the sub-postmasters when they needed help 25 years !
Only James Arbuthnot can hold his head up high
Very depressing that politicians have decided they suddenly care about this because it’s in the public eye all of a sudden
Exactly.
ANY MP or minister or civil servant who has been in office while this abhorrent situation took place is as culpable as the post office for letting it happen. The information in the dramatisation has been in the public domain for years. Obviously the mainstream media puppets and the politicians did not care but now the dramatisation has presented the same facts to the public who are rightly outraged because it could happen to any of us normal people, out come the likes of patel and fishy with their empty word. The disgust me !!
It’s all too little to late for all this outrage from the MPs it has gone on for years and years and no one was worried about it.
I was a subpostmaster in the relevant time when we left we walked away with a small negative balance which I knew we didn’t owe but as it was less than a hundred we just paid it and walked away.
However having talked to an accountant he says it is awfully odd no one had a positive credit. I did. For months and months I had a 4 thousand dollar credit which someone asked for a special event which was cancelled. Post office told me I had given that money out but I never did and I couldn’t send it back. I couldn’t get anyone to take the money back and being honest I spent hours trying to do so. The security guard couldn’t accept it as according to his pick up sheet then he would have to explain this sudden money. In the end I sent a letter with the money via special delivery with the money to Paula Venables explaining where the money came from. How many others had positive balances and were not so honest and what happened to that positive balance money, where is that money. Negative and positive must make hundreds and thousands of pounds, where is it?
I would also like to add that apart from this disgraceful attack on these poor sub-post office 's and their workers many elderly people relied on such a service.
In 1980 I worked in Japan and used Fujitsu to set up the IT systems. The first thing I asked Fujitsu staff was which was a good Accounting software package for an Export House. They told me that Japanese don't use software packages and have proprietory software written for them, somewhat akin to reinventing the wheel. At a time when brilliant Accounting packages like SAP etc are available the reason they went for this software is because they chose the wrong Company and did not insist using tried and tested software.
Surely a charge of corporate manslaughter could be sought as this situation drove some people to an early death?
Corporate manslaughter, with the head of the organisation at the time being culpable.
All we need is for the mps to call out the decades of abuse suffered by kids that went to boarding schools and children's homes and never had justice
You've touched on an even bigger issue here: the systematic, legalised kidnapping and (often) sale for adoption of children by social workers following a L**T agenda. People trafficking is alive and well in the UK.
Accountability!!!
There needs to be an example set with this scandal.
Ministers, Civil Service, Royal Mail management, and Fugitsu need to be punished, fined, stripped of honours and put in jail, and experience what those GOOD PEOPLE went through.
Only then will those in power realise that they need to be more responsible for their actions.
Priti Patel in on the act..ffs irony is dead la
She really is a truly evil cow. Her attempt at to showing concern is like watching Ronnie Corbett do the high jump
Yeah and we’ve got her as our local MP, what a joke she is, she stands supposedly with local objectors, solely for press coverage and photo opportunities and then fades away as the development commences.
Not once but many times, wake up Witham and Tiptree or are you as uncaring?
Vile
@@janey4uk Not as vile as the deliberate acts of your Tory friends.
The sub-postmasters should immediately be repaid every penny of the shortfall amounts plus interest, and have their millions of £'s of legal fees (plus interest) refunded as they were only incurred because of the way the Post Office used the public purse to fight and delay the action.
How do politicians have the audacity to criticise anyone about accountability?
Shouldn’t there be corporate manslaughter charges - people committed suicide solely because they were hounded by the Post Office over false claims of theft / fraud?
Home office ministers, justice ministers. P.M. 's all failed to get to the bottom of this
Post office and Fujitsu should be held accountable and the subpostmaasteers should get ALL their money back not the 21k that they got from winning their first case.
Ed Davey!!!
The P.O. back under public ownership, run as a service, with the scrutiny that brings. Like all other utilities. Time to stop gouging the public twice.
All executives bonuses paid over this period of time should be paid back at the very least. No one should be profiting off a corporation that engaged in such widespread criminality.
No doubt these worthless individuals would have carried on ignoring this scandal if it wasn’t for a tv drama..
The problem surrounding all of this has been known about for years and the politicians have done nothing.
Of course they’re all very good at pontificating now.
Post Office needs to be renationalised, no compensation or buy out. Fujitsu definitely need to be prosecuted.
It has never been taken out of nationalisation DUH!!!!!!
@@JohnSmith-ei2pz it's being run by a private company DUH as as the result Postal Services Act, 2011. The Post Office became separate from the Royal Mail Group a year later. Now it's run by a bunch of self serving wide boys who can't even answer a simple question. This was like watching three school boys being reprimanded by a teacher after being caught red handed for a misdemeanor but still denying they did it. You can't have those types of people in charge of running a bath, let alone the PO.
@@sophiabee8924👏🏻 why can't people use Google instead of making idiotic assertions? Thank you for setting the record straight
Let's remember that ALL politicians ignored the scandal. Now looking to pass the buck.
What about prosecuters and judges who failed to uphold standards of evidence and sent ppl to jail?
The justice system needs to be investigated. How could they allow this to happen to all these innocent people. They need to be held accountable. It’s truly shocking.
Puh lease, when did injustice ever stop them? Go look up the Guildford Four
"Privatisation, with its inevitable erosion of the social wage is tearing apart our family" - Paul Deboe
i dont understand your point ? the post office was entirely state owned during this time
The sad part is the taxpayers will be left to pay the compensation and no one in government will be held to account !!!
Wow! I didn’t know the punishment could be LIFE IMPRISONMENT! Bring it on!
It’s shocking that it takes a TV drama to be screened before ministers start jumping into action.
The sooner this is sorted out and those affected compensated and cleared of any wrongdoing the better and then let’s see those responsible both individually as well as corporately dragged through the courts and jailed.
How can Fujitsu still be winning government contracts when they have produced a system which is not fit for purpose as in this case?
Chris Grayling - gave the Euroferries contract to a company with no boats. These eejits couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery
All our inept politicians jumping on the bandwagon,where were they years ago when the post office scandal occurred,when something should have been done to help these postmasters
At least one of the victims has had to pay most of their compensation back to the government via the insolvency service because they were bankrupted by the Post Office. How is that justice?
It's amazing for MPs have been sitting on there hands about this for years knowing about this it takes a program to take them of there arses to do something
At some point, politicians decide to grant unprecedented power for a private company to police it's own employees. What level of incompetence do we have to endure from our ruling class before they are held accountable?
There was a group of people in New York, (Who behaved similar to the Post office Investigators), who used to go from shop to shop, demanding money from shop owners, they were called The Mafia.
There are many MPs named within the Post Office enquiry, who were involved in this including George Osborne at the time Chancellor, and many others, who had been contacted by postmasters within their Constituancies.
How has this business being going on for so long, with reports in the national media, and yet not picked up by parliament and MPs? MPs should stop pointing fingers and put their own house in order. Confidence in our "democratic" model is constantly being eroded. Shame on them all.
We don't have a democracy, and never will as long as political parties (AKA minority interest groups) exist.
YOU might elect an MP (nominated by their party) , but when their 'party' says jump they ask "how high".
Why has it taken so long for this to happen? Partial blame must be laid at mp’s feet
Heartbreaking for all postmasters who suffered this disgraceful episode.
Sad that it takes a TV show to actually get people talking about this injustice that has existed for over a decade
These appalling politicians are jumping on the bandwagon and are 10 years behind the times
I remember seeing this week on tv , about this thing what the Post Office did I 2008 , it was disgusting what the post office did to those people.
Amazing how many want to stand up & be seem supporting the postmasters, in contrast to previous disinterest & silence.
Even now there is a worrying degree of self-policing as this government is culpable for failing to act through their ministers with responsibility for oversight of the PO. Because it involved IT several ministers said they could not investigate. The author Alan Bennet had such a reply to his letters . This failure by Fajitsu also adds weight to the case against our medical records being digitised, despite a different IT provider being involved. Where is the transparency and safeguards in this process?
Got to investigate ALL solicitors who worked at the Post Office during these prosecutions. Lodge class complaints with the SRA now.
What about all the other miscarriage of justice that are going on? How many TV dramas have to be made to sort out the corrupt justice system.
There must be swift action to hold the guilty to account and exonerate the innocent. The tragedies experienced by these poor families is heartbreaking! Privatising our essential services has been an 'our money in their pockets' catastrophe.
In addition to this could be more scandal to unfold. What is happening to Postal Services? Service Failure, Undelivered mail, including car tax renewals that quickly result in fines for non payment of car tax. Which of course the Post Office offer no compensation for. All the while unwanted, endless junk mail gets routinely delivered! We're under attack from so many directions right now!
Given the post office is fully owned by the government and that the conservatives , labour and the Liberals, during the coalition, where in power from when it started it is disgusting to see them playing the blame game. Some M.P s did raise the subject and it was brought before a parliamentary committee yet nothing came of it until a court case happened. Isn't this simply a case of Parliament closing the gate after the horse has bolted
It went private in 2011 and workers got shares at a reduced rate. Shares were floated on the stock market in 2013. Some people made a lot of money
That was Royal Mail, not The Post Office, which still belongs to us. Vince Cable sold the first part of Royal Mail when he was part of the coalition with the Tories. The second and final part was sold off cheap later, again by the Tories. @@trulyexorcise2918
@@trulyexorcise2918 the post office is a limited company but still fully owned by the government
🎉 Disgrace just can’t describe it. Sickening.
Well colour me shocked…Fujitsu are still receiving government contracts despite the evidence of the fiasco they created in the post office contract. This government is beyond corrupt..bring on the elections 🗳️🗳️🗳️🗳️
So it appears the government, who own the Post Office cannot run a Post Office. Can you imagine what could happen when they bring in their CBDC digital money system?
CBDC can't work without 5g. And that has been discovered to be fraudulent.
It's clear the honours system and anyone who is not an MP or on 100k plus a year stands no chance
Just watched the Panorama programme on this issue (You Tube). Cameron stood in Parliament and pontificated about addressing the issue - so where has our government been for the last 9 years hoping it would just go away?
The discust I feel like many others in this case is palpable, firstly my heart goes out to the sub postmasters that took their own lives during this corrupt witch hunt and those that had full knowledge of the Fujitsu issues secondly to the postmasters that were subsequently jailed, then to Andrew Bridgen that I glimpsed sitting in the house who fought for 7 years to bring a high court judgement almost single handedly who was not called to speak. So it took an Itv docusoap to highlight this injustice so the dispicable failed MPs could come to the house to relaunch their failed careers to comment on this and Mr Bridgen was not called. To those in so called power be aware if the voting turnout at the next election is so low then it is time you looked inward to find the true answer.
How is a organisation able to police itself ,how the hell was this let to happen..
A hang over from the past. The Post Office is older than the Police & their power to prosecute goes back the then.
In all honesty that power should have been removed when it was removed from the police 40 years ago.
Simple. The majority shareholder is H.M.Government.
There was a group of people in New York, (Who behaved similar to the Post office Investigators), who used to go from shop to shop, demanding money from shop owners, they were called The Mafia.
Point scoring at its finest. Once this is in the public consciousness, it's bizarre how quickly the ailing ruling party jump upon the bandwagon
It has taken Westminster a ridiculously long time (i.e. 29 years!) to take this shameful scandal seriously - but let's wait and see if anything significant results from all these "warm words"!?
You know when it’s an election year all of a sudden MPs want to do some work
all this chat, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT FOR GOODNESS SAKE.
The track record of this Government is one of kicking issues into the long grass in the hope they will go away.
We have seen how long, and they are still waiting for compensation, victims in the blood contamination scandal have been treated. The PPE and covid scandals along with the Post Masters znd Postmistress false prosecutions and the Hillsborough Inquiry findings are further examples of trying to bury issues.
We need a faster way of compensating innocent victims where the Government can no longer kick issues into the long grass.
MPs knew this was going on years ago
The government is 'dragging its feet' and obviously doesn't wish to show the Postoffice as not able to recognise its own fault
They, the Post Office, recognised it. Then hid it.
So many decent honest people died waiting for ANY justice or support from ministers in government or senior Post Office management over at minimum 12 years!
Why did it take an ITV drama depicting these events for effective government actions to begin? The legacy of anguished suffering & fina9 loss is almost beyond imagination.
Because we have a populist government so they only care about appeasing the whims of the population on any given week. The drama made the public aware on a wide scale and so the government now decided that it's in their interest to look like they are doing something about it. Welcome to Britain in 2024.
The misfeasance is not just in public office, given the so-called "advice" Ed Davey says he based his decision not to meet Mr Balls on, shouldn't the bank accounts of all civil servants involved be forensically examined for links to Fujitsu and any guilty parties prosecuted with the same rigor as the Post Office's victims.
What paragons of virtue, they've all known about this scandal for years and did nothing till it came on the TV. Only the Public stood up for the Postmasters. Sickening
Fujitisu (the software company to blame for this) are still getting contracts from the Tories.
The point made about post office payouts to shareholders is a good one. As we are told all investments can go up as well as down. They have to pay some money back
I heard personally of one poor victim -the Matfield postmistress who lost her business and her home, closure of the PO and loss of a local service. I don’t know what has happened to her since.
Heart breaking.
Every single person in parliament needs to resign and start from scratch !!!!!!
Everything we’ve come to expect..MP’s finding their conscience when it becomes public knowledge or they feel they have been wronged or lost out is some way. And now the present govt decide ‘we’ll look into this’ ‘we must consider all the facts’ and without doubt, the most popular govt ‘waste of time activity’ let’s all have an enquiry costing millions so we can discuss all that they knew yrs ago and did NOTHING! It wasn’t just the serving govt of the time, everybody knew about this scandal…. We know who! We know why? and we know what they did..they destroyed the lives of so many people including the loss of a life… what exactly do they need to consider? It’s time to bring the P.O. executives to account and take the necessary ACTION! and that action is the full force of the law brought down upon them.
I’m sick of all of them..Lady (what a joke) Mone now blaming Sunak and asking for other political figures to be investigated..why? because she got caught! Dorries publishes a book…why? because she didn’t get a peerage! Now this…why? because a tv programme was aired for all to see….and when you thought things couldn’t get any worse, the then P.O. Chief Exec Paula Vennells refuses to relinquish her C.B.E. It should not be her choice, it should be stripped from her!
Most of them in my opinion are an absolute disgrace…they do not serve us…they continue as most of them have always done..they serve themselves.
Oh my God, Priti Patel jumps on the bandwagon!
This post office disgusting coverup has been covered by the press for over 2 decades but MPs have not said or done anything. MPs across all parties are party to the coverup. They are also doing their best to drag this all out to avoid any accountability.
How are Labour a part of it? Horizon was first implemented in 1995 under Major. It's failings were covered up until 2009 at the earliest, and only really talked about in 2011 when Labour were gone.
@@JSmith19858 The Tories will always find a way to blame Labour for anything. It's preferable to taking personal responsibility.
Only James Arbuthnot stood up for the subpostmasters
There needs to be compensation for all those whose personal finances were affected, sufficient to put them back in the same position they would have been in without the interference of the Post Office in their financial affairs.
On top of that every single person who was directly affected needs to be given SUBSTANTIAL damages to properly recognize the significant personal, family and local embarrassment caused by the outrageous actions of the Post Office.
Ideally, there should be an accounting of all those in positions of authority who were made aware of these issues yet chose to do little or nothing about them.
All this information should be made public given the fact that the public purse may be affected by this action/inaction.
Good of them to finally notice/s
I wish American Senate look like this
Any Brit will tell you this is all front and no substance. It sounds earnest because of the fancy etiquette of addressing each other. In reality it’s just total bullshit. They all knew about this issue ages ago and did nothing. It took a tv show and public pressure to take it seriously.
@@Thelma7361 I would still appreciate to be more direct, they use a lot of colloquialisms to cover up what they actually mean in America. I know you're probably right, but an America they just use dog whistles for everything. It's really weird and really gross when you pay attention to it.
@@patrickstreetet3085 this happened between 1999 and 2015. People went to prison, have had their lives completely ruined, have since died or killed themselves over this. This is not in any way direct political action. It’s literally taken a tv drama and subsequent public pressure to create enough political action for it to be discussed in Parliament.
Unfortunately the formal etiquette of the House of Commons presents this facade of taking major issues seriously. It very often doesn’t in practice. Especially when litigation and accountability is involved.
It’s very reminiscent of many miscarriages of justice in Britain whereby Westminster does its absolute best to dismiss and delay proper justice for victims. The UK establishment does its absolute best to subvert accountability of institutions for as long as it can get away with hoping it goes away.
This debate right here should have happened a long time ago. So far no one has been accountable. Just like no one has been held accountable for the Grenfell tower block fire in London in 2016 that killed around 72 people. There are still countless tower blocks up and down the country still covered in the exact same dangerous cladding not only endangering peoples lives but rendering their properties completely unsellable. All to protect those responsible and to delay justice for as long as possible. The UK parliamentary system is no better or worse than America’s. Money first. People last. And it’s been this way for centuries. Fake integrity is absolutely a mastered skilled by the British establishment. But it’s absolutely empty.
@@patrickstreetet3085just to emphasise that while American politicians might use blatant dog whistles British politicians use dog whistles that dogs can’t even hear. It’s so utterly duplicitous that it’s very hard for outsiders to hear. They will outright lie to the public with empty words with completely opposite intentions.
Brits know this implicitly because we are so accustomed to it. You cannot trust British politicians because they are never held to account for what they say.
Americans are way more frank in their language. It’s baudy and brash. Brits have an extremely indirect way of communicating it’s very much all subtext with a drench of lies and insincerity . This House of Commons show means basically nothing on many accounts until it produces actual solid results. Which is unlikely.
All the people from the post office involved in this utter miscarriage of justice need to be held accountable in a court of law with long custodial sentences.
Ministers are only too aware of the need to get the ball rolling on this case, however, the civil servants are highly likely to drag their arses, and obfuscate the intentions of the ministers, and the desire of the public to see justice done. A knee-jerk reaction would not serve anybody well, neither those unjustly persecuted, nor those who have questions to answer.
The way the postmasters were treated by the post office is diabolical. I hope that the people responsible will be prosecuted and sent to prison for destroying innocent peoples lives. But the thing that concerns me most about all this is that it has shown a real flaw in the British justice system. At the trials of the postmasters, it seems that a post office representative told the judge that there was nothing wrong with the computer system, and that the person on trial was the only one to claim there was a problem, and the judges of these cases just accepted their word for it. As one of the characters in the TV drama said, you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. But the postmasters were only found guilty because they had no way to prove they were innocent. That is not the way our justice system is supposed to work. All the attention in this case seems to be focused on holding the post office to account. Surely there should be as much attention given to investigating the failings of the criminal justice system.
They got rinsed like a dish towel
Its amazing someone does something like this under the guise of a business or public office no come back or crime committed.
You steel an apple off the street you get arrested - things need to change!
people killed them selves, lives where ruined & dreams where stolen!
It is time for it to be a criminal offence to lie to the public if an MP. They lie to us on a constant basis, and we deserve better. Sunak is gaslighting us already on this trying to make out it's been a high priority.
Under section 6.2 of the Prosecution Act of 1985, Sir Keir Starmer had the power to take over private prosecutions. It is unbelievable that Keir didn’t know what was happening. There were not one or two cases but 736 cases!! 736 people were wrongly convicted and four people are known to have taken their own lives!! So the question is what was Keir doing 736 times?? There are questions for him to answer!!
That’s not true. They weren’t private prosecutions. The Post Office is an arm of the state. The Post Office is older than the police & their statutory powers of prosecution is a hang over from then.
The big flaw is that there was no oversight of their prosecution decisions.
The police have to submit their files to the CPS & it’s the CPS, not the police who decide whether to prosecute.
The power to prosecute must be taken away from the Post Office immediately
Under section 6.2 of the Prosecution Act of 1985, is not quite how you state it.
@@folksinger2100 who cares how you state it!! I care about 736 innocent families, four of whom have since committed suicide. What do you care about??
@@hughmarcus1 The Crown Prosecution Service has admitted it may have been involved in 99 Post Office prosecutions involving the defective Horizon IT system, according to a leaked letter seen by The Telegraph...
@@folksinger2100 Tony Blair was warned system could be 'flawed' when he was prime minister.
Documents published by the inquiry into the Post Office scandal show the former Labour prime minister was warned in 1998 that there were concerns over the competency of Horizon.
There was a group of people in New York, (Who behaved similar to the Post office Investigators), who used to go from shop to shop, demanding money from shop owners, they were called The Mafia.