FERNANDO IS FASTER THAN YOU! The Story of the 2010 German Grand Prix
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- čas přidán 17. 04. 2023
- When those words were said over the radio, everyone knew what it meant: Massa was going to have to move aside for Alonso.
And while it was seen as being pointless given Massa was leading, it meant that at the end of the season Alonso was in a prime position to potentially be a three time champion, which might not have happened had they stayed as they were.
So what happened? Let's have a look.
Enjoy! And remember to like and subscribe for more!
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I refuse to believe this was 13 years ago! It seems only a few seasons back I was watching this race. I’m getting old.
When you say "I'm getting old" it means you can drop the "getting".
Agreed
@@Scoots1994 Jesus Christ Scott, leave us something to cling onto. But to echo Sparky's point. Thirteen YEARS ago. Madness.
Not bad for a No.2. That was just a couple of races ago surely to God.
feeling old?
I still in the first Schumacher retirement
@@kojack57 That was almost as far back, The great Australian Mark Webber, but Jeez 13 years? Your not the only ones getting old.
I think this was very different to Austria 2002. That was Ferrari just swapping cars for the benefit of a Driver's Championship that wasn't in doubt. Here was different. Massa was backing Alonso into the Red Bulls and the call was made to put the faster driver in front to make sure the team had the best chance of winning. The call only came because Fernando was faster.
I think if Massa was allowed to win it was the perfect confidence boost he needed. But he wasn’t and ended up being the exact opposite, it fell off a massive cliff. If they weren’t gonna let him win there, when were they ever gonna let him win? The crash is the obvious as to how Massa went from one of the fastest on the grid to barely even top 10 fastest, but this can’t be ignored. His body language on the podium said everything and when Domenicali pulled them towards him you could see he didn’t want to be there. My only question is why did he stay there another 3 years? Are they that good at convincing him he’s still important to them? He will always be my favourite driver though. No one can take that from me.
Yeah, I remember that was the takeaway I got: He'd (understandably) been struggling a bit at the start of the season but was finding his footing and was thereabouts to Fernando which ,well, is something hard to do even if you're in tip top shape. He was never close again, and I don't blame him, why risk it all for someone that doesn't rate you highly? I also have no idea why he stuck around for as long as he did other than $$$. It's crazy how quickly Ferrari devolved from a well oiled championship winning machine from the Todt-Brawn-Bryne-Schumacher era to a structure with infighting in dissarray, that from 2009 onwards hasn't been what it once was.
@@zeroelus That's how Fernando operates. He splits the team and basically make his side of the garage the antagonists to whomever else is working on the other car. He didn't have to do that at Renault because he was already Briatore's pick and always had weaker teammates. It quickly changed once he went to McLaren and everyone saw how that went. While overall he is a better driver than Massa, Massa had a better knowledge of the inner workings of Ferrari and could well have put up a decent challenge, but Germany made it all too clear to him that Alonso (and Santander's coffers) were now in charge. People say Massa was never the same driver after his accident, I say this was the point where he truly started going down in performance.
@@TurtleGarage I'm curious how it would have gone if at Renault Webber (Alo's friend) would have heeded Briatore's call instead of going to Williams, or if at Ferrari Kubica (also a friend to Fernando) would have signed if not for his accident. I wonder if we'd seen those cutthroat dynamics or if it would have been milder like when he was at McLaren with Button or at Ferrari with Raikkonen (neither are his mates afaik, but they get along). I agree that his personality makes him a challenge for a team that wants 2 very competitive cars, not just 1 championship contender. Seeing how his relationship at Aston evolves might be spicy.
@@zeroelus at Aston, he knows he has the team. Everybody knows Lance is the boss' son but Fernando is the one most likely to bring in the big points. The McLaren-Honda era doesn't even matter, he knew that car wasn't going to come close to a podium.
What a crazy year of racing. Vettel never had a sole lead in the championship until he finished the last race of the year. I don't know if that has ever happened before.
1976, James Hunt
@@Joeprijsman And Hunt won by just 1 point.
As previously said, '76 by Hunt; as well as '64 by Surtees
Team orders are such a double-edge sword where it's controversial on one hand but understandable on the other. Sometimes it's seen as borderline race-fixing. At the end of day, I don't mind team orders as it's down to how an F1 team operates and manages its driver. 2002 though is an example of going overboard
what I find most fascinating about that is that earlier in that same race, Martin Brundle suggested Ferrari use those exact words as they later did. it was as if he knew what was coming, and maybe he did, given his understanding and involvement in the sport
In addition to your content, I absolutely love your intro/outdo music. It’s comforting.
My father (RIP) was a classic Yorkshireman, your Smedley voice was very funny, reminded me of the old man lol
Spot on Rob Smedley impression!
Team orders didn't ever remotely bother me ever in F1 honestly.
Right after the "Fernando is faster than you" message in Melbourne, Smedley added "Come on, pick up the pace." At that race, it was not (yet) a clear instruction to let Alonso through, just a basic reminder that they were being threatened by other drivers behind and he was holding his teammate up and had to go quicker.
2010 was the first season I really watched from start to finish. Sebastian was my favorite driver and it was just a great season. One could argue if you need a modern “rush” 2010 would be perfect
I'd say the whole 4 years from 2010 to 2013
Massa many years later said "they asked me to help him to win the championship. I did what I was asked, if they failed to do so, too bad for them"
Hi Aidan
In the 80's and possibly the 90's many of the top racing series in America used cars that were built in Britain. I can remember names such as Lola being big in America but useless at F1.
Nowadays they have the Dallara chassis and that is not British. So what happened? Why did British engineered formula racing cars become not-a-thing on the other side of the pond, and when did this happen?
Two words. Lola. Mastercard.
I love your accents and impressions Aidan!
That might've been the best Rob Smedley Impression I've heard in a long while.
As much as I could not stand Jordan as a pundit, anyone who uses the Spa 98 as an example of team orders as a comparison to this is really not using their brain.
I think most racing fans fully understand that holding position and making the driver behind not challenge is a pretty sensible decision as you do not want to risk situations like we have seen with Ocon (three team mates now he has had collisions with due to aggresive moves) and end up with either one or both of your drivers out of the race. Can you imagine Damon giving up that position easily or Ralf not taking risks to get past potentially losing Jordan not only their first win, but a guaranteed one/two.
Asking a driver to move over though, especially when there is no real benefit to the guy behind, is just not right on so many levels.
When there is a good reason to do it such as a tight championship battle where every point counts, then fine, but early in the season or when the guy behind is breezing the championship ... nah.
That is why the whole Max/Checo thing last year was so poorly recieved by fans of anyone other than Max fans. Max had no reason to not let Checo past, and Checo had a lot to gain. It was a no brainer that the team would want Max to let Checo past, especially with all the help Checo had given Max during their time as team mates.
Proper fans do not mind team orders if they make sense.
Ferrari though have a history of team orders that make no sense.
That was a spot on Rob Smedley impersonation mate 😂
the jazz in the background is a nice thing at the end
2010, tiny little cars are still some of my favorites.....
Massa was never the same after the accident. :^(
Massa’s last F1 race win was that infamous Brazil finale in 2008.
Incorrect, he wasn't the same after his accident in 2009.
@@OggaDugga ?
@@peekaboo1575 2009 Hungarian Grand Prix where he got hit in the head by a spring that fell off the Brawn in front of him..
@@OggaDugga Yeah, that's what I meant with my original comment...
Brazilian here. That Santander thing was well known in the country back then.
Of course I never had access to their contracts but it was known to pretty much anyone following F1 then...
What setting on the Red Bull steering wheel is Multi 21? Still having problems finding it 😏
Top Smedley impression there.
Next up: *"Massa Wants ( More ) Answers!"* 😒.
🎼 _"We're off to see the courtroom!"_ 🎼
🎵 _"The wonderful courtroom of spoooort!"_ 🎶
( I wonder whether this still happens if Massa had taken the 2008 title 🏆. Does Ferrari even bring in Alonso at all? 🤔. True, Massa would still have been **exactly** the same guy, but a final corner overtake by another guy on another guy four places behind him, and perception of him is completely flipped ).
As a life long Ferrari and massa fan, at the time 17 year old me wanted to go and drop kick Domenacali in the face, after the 2008 loss and the 2009 near death experience for Felipe, he earned that win and didn’t deserve to have it taken away from him and it never should have been.
"ethics have small bearing on tactics" Clive James circa 1986
It's simple. There is no way Massa would have mounted a title challenge in 2010. He just wasn't good enough that year.
agree but Alonso was a hole .
I remember watching this race on cable tv. While relatively new to F1, I was disgusted by that call (still am to this day). Never became a Ferrari fan after witnessing that BS.
Nice outro.
hearing those words again in this is why i love f1 still stings
at least Massa wasn't told to drive into a wall so Alonso can win the race...
Only F1 race ive ever attended in person. And its historic for all the wrong reasons haha... (at least not singapore 2008 bad)
Or Indianapolis 2005, where the fans were totally robbed. Actually, it did have cars going fast. Contrast that w/ Spa 2022 where the fans sat in the rain for four hours to watch some pace laps. Talk about races famous for the wrong reasons.
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing actually fair point. Also i was like 11 and really enjoyed the race, so in the end wasnt a bad one to attend.
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing spa 2021*
FYI, Aidan... The thing about the bank wanting to make inroads into the Brazilian markets and wanting Massa there still is true. My father worked with the bank as they were setting it up and clearly recalls internal promos featuring this
Stefan Bell On... genius! 😅
That lead to next Question 2010 final and Webber what if?, Let's said Webber finish 2 at Korean Gp and everything when the same way
Yeah I wasn't a fan of this initially, however Felipe was well behind in the points and needed a miracle to win the championship which was never going to happen. So as difficult as it was I did understand it after thinking about it
The 2002 Austrian GP which triggered the rule in the first place was a shitty decision and I still think that to this day. As I pointed out in the recent video, Ferrari were very lucky they left Austria with 16 points and not 10
The 1998 Belgian GP was completely justified in my opinion given that 80% of the retirees that day had crashed and the conditions were terrible. A rare example of good team orders
In the '98 Belgian GP, Damon Hill basically said he would have Ralf off if the order didn't come, so the choice was made all the easier for Eddie.
As I understand it he said; 'If we race each other, we'll have an accident' He wasn't implying he would 'off' Ralf at all.
But whatever was decided, they still raced anyway because Jean Alesi was pushing the Jordans hard. He pushed them so hard they lapped Jarno Trulli for the second time on Lap 42 and fourth and fifth places were significantly behind as well. So while Ralf may have been ordered to hold position he didn't back off - because he couldn't
@@TurtleGarage Damon never said he was going to have Ralf off. He was saying that if they were to race they could have an accident similar to what DC and Schumacher had. It was about protecting the 1-2 and making sure Jordan got a win.
@@reptongeek That was the part that was broadcasted. Damon later said in an interview that he said something to the likes of "if he tries to overtake me, I'll have him off".
@@AidanMillward I can't find the exact quote but there's this: "You spoke to me like you'd never spoken to me before," Jordan later told Hill. "It was a very strong [message], 'I am a world champion, I know how to win'. It wasn't an instruction to me, but it was strong advice."
Between this and Multi-21... It's hard to pick a favorite encoded team order controversy, really. The FIA was absolutely right to lift the ban, given that Steve Matchett had been explaining to American audiences for years beforehand whenever they heard a radio message filled with bad news that, "Yep, that's the team order that we're supposed to pretend isn't a team order." Whether or not the ban could be policed in the first place, it had been clear for ages that the FIA simply wasn't attempting to police it, so there was no point to having it.
Ok younger viewers that watch Alonso's F1 comeback can't really relate with some stuff, so I 'll give another side of that story Aidan just told. It's obvious that Alonso was helped by this victory to reach the Abu Dhabi final, but does it matter? He lost the championship by crashing out in Spa and by not being able to pass Petrov in Abu Dhabi. If instead Felipe got that victory and the psychological boost that it would give him, he could cut much more important points from Alonso's rivals, than these 7 that he won with that win in Germany. Ferrari was getting faster, too. But Ferrari, being Ferrari only care about what's easy to do for now, and that's why they are such a mess till this day.
A note also on Alonso. He is one of the greatest raw speed drivers I 've ever seen, but his toxic behavior destroyed his career. He did that in 2007, he participated in the crashgate, then again in Ferrari and - despite many people seem to not give much attention to it - in his second spell with Mclaren too. Alonso performs miracles in underperforming cars, but not underperforming teams. He couldn't improve Alpine, too. A great driver he is and for me the best of his generation in pure racing terms, but his career can be summed up in a famous word he used: karma.
Yes, I know what you 'll say, it's hate coming from a Felipe fanboy. Yes, I was a Felipe fanboy, but that's not hate, just facts. Alonso wants to dominate the pit wall everywhere he goes and that's not healthy. Ferrari always favours one driver from the get go, when they sniff a chance of a title hunt, with the only exeption being 2007 and 2008, when they decided to do it at the right time. So, don't expect great team performances when half the garage lacks motivation. What goes around, comes around.
Ferrari were right to do it inthink, looking in hindsight
Massa is such a strange driver. Great if he was able to be on pole and lead from the front. Absolutely awful when he needed to race other cars to win. Also, he tended to have great launches
👍 for the Eddie Murphy reference alone
To me. If your teammate is faster they should get past them... Simple. If they can't. They shouldn't.
McLaren gave Kovalainen blatant team orders in much the same way in Germany 2008, Ron Dennis over Heikkis radio (overriding the race engineer himself) to let Hamilton through. But ITV never even mentioned it and nobody said a word, even though it was just as illegal and should’ve also been punished. Just because it was Hamilton, nobody cared about Kovalainen, it wasn’t for P1, and there wasn’t the whole Felipe 1yr crash stuff. The uproar over 2010 compared to 2 years prior always confused me personally. They were both illegal.
And in 2018 when Merc ordered Hamilton by Bottas in an equally dumb 2002 Austria way at Sochi, Sky didn’t say a single negative word about it. Yes it was legal by this time (just as Austria 2002 was) but in sporting terms I found it just as disgusting to Bottas, as Ferrari were to Massa that day.
Funny how depending on who it is the UK media have kittens or are completely silent
For 2008 Germany that was because they were on different strategies. Kovalainen was on the primes while Hamilton was on new options as he was climbing up the field after a mistake by the McLaren pitwall.
As for 2018 Russia, Hamilton was still fighting for the title against Vettel whilst in 2002 Austria the only drivers who were still in contention for the title were the two Ferrari drivers. So I think Russia was less bad. Also don't forget that Vettel benefited from team orders to move Raikkonen over as well like in Germany that year but that wasn't covered a lot, whilst the Russia incident is still widely remembered.
Ferrari Williams McLaren have always seen f1as a team event an I bet prized constructors trophy over the driver's . After all drivers come and go . So why wouldn't they want what's best for the team
""The bread is in the middle of the road"... 😂
This was not the first time Ferrari managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory…
Great video as usual but, sorry Aidan, your impression of Rob Smedley sounds more like Jimmy Savile. "Fernando is faster than you. How's about that, then?"
Felipeeee, baybeeeeeeee
Lewis Massaton the *real* 2008 Recipe One Global Conquistador! 🤪
Thanks Ferrari, for bringing back Team Orders to the sport🙄
Things like these are kind of why I ignore Alonso fans who say that Hamilton only wins "because of team orders".
I was at this race as an 8 year old wondering why Alonso was suddenly ahead of Felipe
Ki ki ki AYAYAY
Couldn't help noticing Fernando is considerably richer than yow \m/
There was one time when I was faster than Fernando in qualifying in the Formula Vee in iRacing. He finished 2nd and i took 3rd 😂
👍👍👍
i sware you've done this one already once
I haven’t.
Oh no, Jean Toad wasn't happy with Ferrari's team orders? Ohh nooooo, anyway
Personally, I always thought banning team orders in a sport where each car is a part of a team was ridiculous!! The team should be doing what is best for the team. If not, make each team a one car outfit!! But if it is a two car team, then the team should be doing what is best for the team, in the teams opinion, or else what sort of a team is it really?? All seems like a totally manufactured controversy by people who think the individuals should be more important than the team, and in what other sport would that attitude be tolerated in??
Ferrari should have simply told Massa he was being rude.
EJ was horrific when on BBC. He could be extremely hypocritical one minute, hugely impassioned the next and then the next week "that's all in the past." Admittedly some could see that as channeling the inner kid in these instances. But anyway, I should really listen to that podcast him and DC have where they mention the BBC having them share a bed together.
He was there to stir the pot, and nothing else really.
@@AidanMillwardand nothing riled the Beeb quite like primary school Irish between him and Fassbender.
But yeah he did his job well even if I personally couldn't stomach some of his antics.
I think the fact that Alonso still failed to win the championship makes this incident a bigger kick in the teeth
T H E M I C H A E L
I've got nothing against team orders- it's a TEAM sport- every team has a #1 "preferred, I guess" driver, #2 needs to deal with that...
It may be a team sport, but it's still a driver's championship, i.e. there can be only one driver at the top.
If you can't overtake your slower teammate, that's on you.
Patrick Head said that when he was principal at Williams "I didn't care who finished first so long as the other car finished second," and I respect that kind of dedication to sportsmanship.
@@MrSaywutnow patricks comment proves my point- it's a TEAM sport- if they tell you to pull over- do it- just be sure you finish second
Shocking impersonation.
"multi 12" anyone?
You enjoyed doing that accent didn't you 😂😂
If I’m given an opportunity to do a voice or an impression I’m doing it. 🤣
@@AidanMillward 😂 it was very good in fairness, I thought it was a sound bite 😳
If that's so tell the p*** to pass then I'm not letting him pass ( giving it to him)
It was BS then, and still now. Ferrari were miles away from Red Bull and McLaren at that point after an indifferent European season, and no real threat for the championship. Remember how we all laughed at Fernando's insistence he could win from over 40 points back? Only luck could put him in with a shot, which it did in Korea when Red Bull drew a blank. The only other time Ferrari genuinely had pace was in the back to back of Italy and Singapore, and that also had much luck added as Alonso was let in the door by Hamilton DNF'ing in those two races. Realistically in terms of performance it was not on, so who cares if Fernando is faster, take the positive press from the story of Massa winning on the anniversary of his accident, rather than the negative press of letting their Schumacher show again. Classic Ferrari not reading the room, and focusing on the championship too early, just like at Silverstone last year, nearly costing themselves the win by focusing on Charlie Banker just because he was in front in the championship out of their drivers, ignoring the fact that he was in no fit state to win with half a front wing and worn tyres. If only Felipe had the balls to argue like Carlos.
"Fernando is faster tha-"
"Guys, stop inventing!"
The only problem with that argument is, come Abu Dhabi, Alonso was the one who was leading the championship 8 points clear of Webber and 15 clear of Vettel. Ferrari weren't going to win the Constructors with both Red Bull and McLaren building better cars and Massa simply not being on the same pace as Alonso. But Alonso sure as hell still had a shot at the title and he proved that against all the odds when everyone was betting on Hamilton being the champion. Luck is as important as performance and strategy. Without luck, Mika never wins his second title, Raikkonen never wins a world championship and neither Keke nor Nico Rosberg taste the championship glory. To say the team orders were bullshit because Ferrari had no shot in the championship is just a ridiculous thing to say when Alonso was the one with the best shot at winning come the end of the season, and he lost because Ferrari picked the wrong strategy, and the issues with Abu Dhabi that showed up in 2009 were still there for 2010 and both Alonso and Webber got stuck behind Petrov, leading to Vettel having a clean run at the title.
Aidan, you could see it from a different perspective. If Fernando was faster he would have overtaken Felipe. Felipe needed a confidence boost. Instead, he got knocked down to a number 2 driver role. After that, why bother? You see on your chart that Felipe started getting worst results AFTER this race. And Fernando still didn’t win the championship, so all we got was 1 victory less for Felipe. As for Santander it’s quite the opposite: Fernando went to Ferrari with Spanish bank Santander to give Fernando a 3rd title.
By the way, I love your “what if” videos. On light of a possible Felipe legal action because we now know that the Singapore race results should have been cancelled, may I request a “what if Felipe had won 2008 championship” video? It’s likely things would have turned up quite differently in the following years with the whole Ham to Merc, etc.
Massa before this race: 67 points in 10 races (6.7 points per race)
Massa after this race : 59 points in 8 races (7.375 points per race)
Massa didn't get worse results after this race. In fact, he didn't score points in the 3 races before the German GP.
@@THN--ue2yn hello. I meant more broadly as in the years before and the years after this race, where he seemed to have assumed a 2nd driver role. But anyway that’s what I remember. I’m not into stats. Nevermind. Thanks.
Fernando was faster that day, Massa held him up. In F1, there's little room for sentimentality, and if Ferrari wanted a shot at the title, then it had to back a horse, and it chose Fernando.
Fernando is faster than you 🫵
Honestly mate, I don't know why you made this video. It's completely devoid of any new insights you normally give.
The fact Felipe had already been told “Fernando is faster than you” already once that season is something a lot of people don’t realise.
This video really does feel like it had no research put into it.
Quote from Adam Cooper of Autoweek in September 2010, once again proving the FIA are shit and proves yet again why Massa is within his right to hold FIA and F1 to account regards to how they handle situatiuons of rule breaking;
"The FIA World Motor Sport Council chose to ignore a recommendation from its own investigator to take the German Grand Prix win away from Ferrari's Fernando Alonso and hand it back to his teammate, Felipe Massa--on the basis that the FIA's own rule was hard to police."
"Swedish FIA veteran Lars Osterlind was appointed as the “reporter” in the case, which concerned Ferrari ordering Massa to let Alonso pass him--a violation of F1's ban on such tactics--during the German GP at the end of July. Osterlind personally investigated all aspects of the incident; he interviewed all of the key figures and presented a 160-page report to the WMSC."
"Although Osterlind presented a compelling case and clearly was not swayed by Ferrari's claim that team orders were not involved, the WMSC chose not to change the original penalty. It reasoned that, in essence, the rule--which has been in place for eight years--involved “uncertainty and complexity."
"Osterlind determined that this was not necessarily the case and found that Ferrari asked both drivers to turn their engines down--before Alonso turned his revs up again without Massa being informed."
Sadly another case of the FIA and F1 having all the information available but deciding to do only the bare minimum possible as a fine is meaningless for the top teams. It's not as bad as F1 not intervening with Crashgate despite it being known the crash was intentional during 2008 but similar in feeling as the reason for the inevitably unenforceable "Team Order Ban" is that to fans, it looks like a team is intentionally "Fixing" a race result, but telling drivers to "Save Fuel" was just as easy as telling them straight to hold positions or let drivers through like now.
@@ThePhoenixWylde can’t win ‘em all I guess.
I never spotted that bit above, but still thought that the fact he’d already been told those exact words earlier in the season was interesting cos nobody ever mentions it.
That said it’s Jean Todt. Was he ever going to throw Ferrari out or change the result? 😅
@@AidanMillward No doubt right about Todt, but shows how bad the favourtisim and seemingly undemocratic the FIA can be, that one man be it Todt, Mosely or Bernie can decide matters of such importance.
Not that this win helped Alonso much given he binned it completely on his own at Spa.
@@ThePhoenixWylde and then couldn’t get past Petrov in the car he’d just left behind at the finale and expected him to move over.
Was tragic yet at the same time quite amusing.
Hamilton did a terrible job that season. He had a better car than Fernando and was really nowhere close to him.
Haven't watched f1 for years. Gets less and less interesting each year.
Did you miss 2021?
@@martimxavier9690 max I would have watched one race.
@Barry Britcher really? It was one of the best championship duels we've ever had
@@martimxavier9690 work Sundays bro
@@barrybritcher fair enough
Alonso is faster than you so nothing to see here.
Is it a schtick of yours to say, for example, “Back in THE December of 1992” or “Back in THE 2005”? If not, then “the” doesn’t belong in either of those quoted parts.