Best (& Worst) Queer Romance Tropes!
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Today we're looking at the best and worst tropes the romance genre has to offer! What are your favorites and least favorites? Share in the comments if you feel so inclined!
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#romance #books #discussion - Zábava
My favourite trope is when queer people don’t die. Let us live and be sassy and sad simultaneously plz
❤
Yeah, well... what if the queer (bi, to be precise) character who dies isn't the only queer character who has an important role in the story? And also, if there are many others (straight and not straight) who die?
As I mentioned once before:
If a trope has evolved into something else yet contain similar properties, they’re isotropes.
As a former chemist I appreciate this so much
@@Hyzentley It was for you 😂
Undressing? Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
I'm weak to the the childhood crushes trope. Especially when they've drifted apart when getting older and then they have a meet-cute moment later down the line. As for tropes I dislike it, I really don't like affairs. Like say a billionaire, someone famous, etc. etc. is in a long-term relationship or even married and then has an affair that escalates and everything.
you're me
Cheating is the ultimate turn off and instantly makes me hate the characters involved. Definitely one of the worst tropes, idk why people romanticize it 😭
For me the cheating trop can only be justified in a period piece and/or if they are in a arrange marriage.
I'm not sure if it counts as a trope, but I really enjoy books in settings where queerness isn't necessarily considered. Usually I see this in sci-fi settings, sometimes apocalyptic settings, but it's nice to read books where a character's identity isn't a part of their struggles. I separately love seeing queer characters in historical fiction, especially when descriptors are time-accurate or specific to a character (ie. characters talking about how they view their identity, and as a reader being able to recognise queerness in that). Despite these preferences seeming to conflict, I think their commonality is exploring slash deconstructing societal norms and queerness. Which is really fun!
This does apply to queer romance, but also applies to queer characters more generally-- that's why my language is kind of vague :D
Two of my least favorite tropes are the “hate becomes love” where the couple meet they hate each other so much but by the end are head over heels for each other, while the other is the trope where they are so dependent on each other they forget to be their own person.
I tried writing a supernatural romance story where I tried to avoid these tropes, though I did have the guy not give the girl a chance because of personal reasons and something happened where he accidentally put her into danger and does give her a chance after that, because I wanted a story where the couple actually do fall in love but still be a person without their relationship being in the way.
goodness, as a polyamorous person i HATE love triangles with a BURNING PASSION tbh >:((((
I like enemies to lovers but I like enemies and lovers best. I hate it when the characters have playful banter and keep the rivalry going until they get together and now all of a sudden theyre all affectionate and gentle-
Dont get me wrong, affection in a relationship makes sense but their personalities don't have to disappear. If they just do a complete 180 it just feels out of character.
A (maybe a bit problematic) ick is especially for hero x villain stuff where one switches sides for the other, like, the fun part is that they're on opposite sides AHHA
A character changing opinions is fine but if they just lose all of their moral compass for their lover it just feels a bit eh
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Boyfriend Material has a 3rd trope, which happens to be one of my favourites: opposites attract, which is different from enemies/rivals to lovers. RW&RB also has that trope (on top of the famous persons one). In these 2 examples, Luc and Oliver, and Alex and Henry are total opposites. Misunderstandings and conflicts arise from their differences and the dynamic of the relationship often focuses on how they get to resolve their issues
12:07 The way my mind was blown when I realised a lot of love triangles are love arrowheads.
16:41 THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS! Stop giving bullies a sympathetic arc. There should be nuance in the criticism though but mostly clapbacks and reverse trolling.
Apartment hunting is so stressful, especially when you're in a rush to leave. I wish you the best of luck with your search for a cheaper, nicer and roommate-free place to live. 😌
I'm kind of over fake dating. It can be done well, but it's in everything these days. And I hate when it leads to the characters having to lie to everyone around them. And when those lies escalate and lead to a very awkward and very uncomfortable reveal/admission of said lies. No thank you!
Enemies to lovers will always be superior. The slow burn, the angst, the moment when they realize that their feelings have changed. It's even better when it's paired with the forced proximity trope. Chef's kiss!
Here are the tropes that I hate:
- Age gap
- Surprise pregnancy (or any pregnancy at all)
- Miscommunication, or when the conflict would be resolved in 2 minutes if the characters were actually open and honest with one another.
I loved that "short" (it's still 20 mins long!), unscripted video. Thank you! 🤗
I love age gap, what bothers you about it? Is it the dynamic of the older partner having more power in the relationship? And the friends not understanding how the relationship can work?
It's a personal preference thing, but yes it mainly boils down to those reasons!
@@Taraxacum_sp I get that ❤. But I still like it and I think that the dynamic can be interesting when written correctly. One of my favourite real celebrity couples are Tom Daley and Dustin Lance Black, they have 20 years age gap and I think they are perfect for each other 😍 I would definitely read a book about their love story ☺.
I love enemies to lovers, especially between two women - but there has to be a shift and it has to feel true to the characters.
I don't read that much queer romance, but I read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy with queer subplots. Some recommendations:
- "The Risen Empire" - Scott Westerfeld. A space opera about an necromantic empire vs a society of AI worshiping cyborg women. Two important POV characters are a lesbian cyborg commando and a bisexual neurodivergent low level military worker falling in love
- "Failure To Communicate" - Kaia Sonderby. Star Trek esque science fiction about a bisexual, autistic woman who is the language and first contact expert on a spaceship. She has a poly romance with both the female ships hacker and a male engineer.
- "A Memory Called Empire" - Arkady Martine. Space Opera with lots of sci-fi politics, about an female ambassador to a small space station arriving at the Mayan-esque Empire just to find out that her predecessor has been murdered. She has a romance with her female assistant, but there are also several other queer romances in the background.
- "Crier's War" - Nina Varela. Fantasy about an servant girl scheming her way into being handmaiden of the kings daughter to revenge what the king did to her family, but instead the two fall in love. What is interesting about this is that the ruling class are basically androids, but it's treated as fantasy, not sci-fi
- "Gideon the Ninth" - Tamsyn Muir. The classic. Science Fantasy about an unwilling nun and master swordswoman ending up becoming the personal kight of her arch enemy, the necromantic heir of the Ninth planet, to help her in a competition on the First planet. Both women fall in love, and its so tragic, but there are also tons of other queer characters in the background.
Edit: I even made an Video review (without spoilers) about the first three if you want to know more
I don’t think this is a trope but I hate it in general is miscommunication like I hate it, it stresses me out so much!
Loved the video❤❤ also I wish you the best of luck with finding an apartment ❤
Same. If *every* problem could be solved if they just talked to each other, it really annoys me. I get so frustrated.
I agree, it always feels like they're keeping it up just for the drama, wether to make the book more 'interesting' or to lengthen the page count 💀
It’s so funny to me, because as a divorce attorney and author, miscommunication is the most realistic thing in a book. 😂 People don’t talk, they assume, they talk to everyone except the person they need to. It FEELS juvenile, but…
Hey! Newcomer here! As someone who is currently sick right now, I really appreciate how gentle and calm your voice is.
Fave
1/ Closet Key.
2/ Friends to Lovers.
3/ Comrades in Arms. Whether soldiers, cops, or firefighters
4/ Nerd/Jock
5/ Butch Gay/Flamboyant gay. (You had mentioned Check Please.)
6/ Polycule. ie Scooby Doo.
Dislike
1/ Gay For You/My One Exception. When it's done in a homophobic way. ie. "Call Me By Your Name" where the two adults identified as gay are referred to as 'ridiculous' and the end of the movie implies that the romance was a phase that should not be a block to mature hetero marriage.
2/ Deception.
3/ M/F with pronoun changes. I beta-ed one story where one of the characters was a transwoman who was referred to as a 'castrated man'.
4/ Adultery with a Guy Doesn't Count
5/ Extreme Power Imbalance to the Point of Non-Con - including but not limited to paedophile, master/slave, economic coercion, or abusive relationships.
I kinda love onesided Enemies to Lovers trope which I find is very rare where one person hates the other for some reason but the other is desperately in love with them. (Not to bring up She-who.must-not-be-named but James and Lily Potter always fell into that trope for me) Otherwise I agree with you.
YES OMG two of my ocs are this and it's sooo good but I need more of it in media that people actually write and not just in my brain💥
Pride and Prejudice is probably the best example of this!
@@asterismos5451Yes! But I feel alot of people misread it as both of them hating each other in the beginning. He's just a socially awkward neurodivergant man and she misunderstands him, hating her perceived version of him.
I like that trope,too. James and Lilly just don't work for me because James is a bully amd even though I know people can change but we don't see that process so I can't like James. He is a rich coincided boy that picks on a obliviously poor boy just because he said he wanted to be in slytherin and he keept it up for years to the point where they almost killed ghe boy. I feel bad for young Snape but I also dislike the older Snape that bullies his students. He's an interesting Character though. James is not because he isn't really written about much
@@kuroneko5390 I know. It's just the first thing that came to my mind while thinking about this. A better example of the trope would probably be Enola and Tewksbury from Enola Holmes, especially in the first film.
Thanks a lot for the video! I have used your examples to dip my toes into gay rom com books (I’m an old guy that loves rom com movies). I have started with Date Me Bryson Keller and am enjoying it. One thing that struck me was the similarity of this book to the Heartstopper series (I have and read all 5 books) - a gay nerd falls for a jock unaware of his sexuality but with a heart of gold. Quite different in other ways but Bryson keeps reminding me of Nick!
I also have wondered if HS could be considered a rom com? It certainly has romance and it has comedy as well (look at Jackie-Ross Lavender’s reactions to the second season, he laughs like crazy). Imogen’s “I’m not like homophobic, I’m an ally”, Isaac’s “Ms. Singh told me to bring you some… antiseptic wipes. Okay…”, Charlie’s “Mate, bro, dude, supportive straight friend” and lots of other great one liners certainly qualify.
So does that make HS a rom com, or do you need a classic trope as well for it to be a true rom com? Does HS have a trope? I’m not qualified to answer this so perhaps someone could help? Just how wide is the rom com genre, or are there rules I’m not aware of? I’ve watched quite a few movies and am never sure whether to classify them as rom com, comedy, romance, or drama. Most have elements of all of them.
Finally, I bought many of the other books you suggested and am really looking forward to a year of happy reading, thanks.
I've been trying to figure that out, too! With no luck, unfortunately. Heartstopper (the show) was classified as a drama, if I recall correctly. I don't know if that applies to the comics as well. And I don't know how that is determined, even though I've read countless explanations about genres in the past week. To make it even more difficult for me, as you said, elements of all kinds of genres tend to get mixed.
As someone who doesn't like romance in the slightest, I must say I did enjoy your video talking about your opinions about these things.
I just knew I would agree with you on desirable/undesirable tropes. On that last one with the former bully though, I did see it done well once with AO3 Heartstopper - Music and Lyrics. That one combines tropes that I like! One of them is famous, so that is cool, but then also there is a touching moment of forgiveness for past transgressions that is one of the finest moments I've read in fanfic. So if you have not read it, I recommend, and I'd love to know if you think that the way it's handled works for you. Thanks for a great video!
I don't like cheathing trope in books. Like that would be a turn off for me, especially when the mc doing it.
I just finished Jay’s Gay Agenda and it is filled with lies, deception and cheating - from secondary characters, but also from the MC. Even if fences are mended (quite unrealistically IMO) at the end, the book left me with a sour taste. You’re right: cheating sucks.
I've found that a lot of the appeal for me in boy band / famous person / reality show trope romances, for me, has usually revolved around the use of epistolary elements (social media posts/reactions, in-universe articles, a sort of greek choir of voices in the public view) that influence the way the MC and Love Interest see each other or which allows the reader an additional insight to their character. When combined with slow burn enemies or rivals to lovers, it's an additional layer of potential conflict that the intended couple has to navigate to trying to better understand each other. Its even better when the epistolary reactions mirror that of the reader (joy and excitement when the couple is public and happy, or confused and critical when couple is experiencing miscommunication and conflict.) Maybe that's old parasocial habits speaking too, but I'm more likely to read it because I'm often reading through comment threads and fandom reactions when I try to enjoy any piece of media, queer romance or otherwise.
One of my favorite famous person romance is Vol. 1 of the Bluewater Bay series: Starstruck by L.A. Witt.
There are 17 volumes in this series (written by different authors) and most of them are very good. But Starstruck is my favorite.
An undressing Thom and not even a Patreon extra?! Oh lala good sir 😏 On a serious note, that's super sucky about all the roaches and sudden moving. Sending you well wishes that you can hopefully get everything to work out smoothly
I saw Like Real People Do in the thumbnail and got so excited. Probably one of my favourite reads from last year
It was originally a Check, Please fanfic!
I just realized I’ve read every book you name in the video, except Charm Offensive. I’ve had it in my Kindle for months but failed to give it a go so far. OK, so it’s my next read after I’m done with Jay’s Gay Agenda - which reminds me of Camp (Rosen) but also of What If It’s Us? (Albertalli/Silvera). Common trope to the 3 books: Getting rid of the V card !
Aliens/paranormal/zombies/vampires/werewolves anyone ? Thom, one of your books is filled with such creatures ! 👽
Not based on any trope specifically mentioned here but just from what you've talked about and your tastes in romance I highly recommend Life of Melody by Mari Costa. It's a simultaneously heartbreaking and wonderfully wholesome romance/romantic comedy and oh boy is it great.
giggling and kicking my feet throught the whole fave tropes section because all of these happen to be exactly the ones i love and am currently writing
Loved the video.❤ When you said in the beginning that it was gonna be a short video I got kinda upset, and then I realised that the video was over 20 minutes and I was happy again. But I would have loved your video even if it was shorter. So that's me saying make any video you like and don't mind me. Even unscripted you knocked it out of the park, the undressing at the beginning had me in stitches and we all love your bookshelf and are glad it's back. Sorry about the cockroaches and good luck finding a new apartment. Sometimes it can really feel like someone's trying to get you. 🤗
I usually don't care about the troupe as much as the quality of writing, development of the main characters and their relationship. But after watching your video I have to agree with what you said. I personally love the sports theme and I've recently read a few books that had fake to real relationships in them and they were great. I hate when I see a conflict coming from the beginning of the book and am anxious the whole time I am reading it and waiting for it to come. I tend to skim a book when the couple is broken up. I just want my HEA and not the stupid miscommunication causing unnecessary pain. These days I am more cautious and I almost always try a sample before buying a book.
Oh no! Cockroaches are awful. My first apartment had some but luckily we could get rid of them. Good luck!!
11: 07 So far I'm in agreement with you. There's a baseball player one called Blue Paradise by Theo Fenraven.
I like books where one of the main characters has a secret, not from the other character, that event
ually is revealed in a dramatic way, or someone underestimating someone until their true capability is revealed.
I'm not into romance as a genre, but occasionally end up reading it (usually YA for work). I have found I can tolerate two tropes: 1) friends to lovers - spot the demisexual! and 2) star-crossed lovers (I joke with the kids at school that I only like romance if it ends badly) or breakup stories. Pretty much all other tropes will put me off completely.
I think its interesting that as someone with a history of only straight romantic experiences, I tend to prefer LGBTQ+ romance in fiction. I had to ask myself if this was a kind of fetishisation at first but I realise its just that I don't usually identify with the heteronormative gender roles in straight romance and the supposedly swoonworthy heroes leave me cold. As I've started to figure out that I'm actually part of the queer community, a lot of things, like the kinds of books I like to read, have begun to make a lot more sense!
i just clicked bc of the title and then the name of the channel and with you undressing i think im in the right place. like, subscribe and notifs on for you thom
Yep, I'm in total agreement with you. Those are my favorites and least favorites.
In the Sex Education Netflix series, Adam did bully Eric, which I didn't like, but then I did end up liking them as a couple. I'm conflicted about their storyline; they're both very flawed characters.
IMO Eric is the only character in the whole cast who is not confused/in denial over his sexuality and/or flawed as a character. He’s very much a beacon of sanity - except that his avant-gardism and flamboyance may run counter to established norms.
Adam and his dad were my favourite characters in the show. I love seeing character growth (and I think they grew more than anybody), but I also loved that they didn't completely change, they both remained very flawed characters right up to the series' (unceremonious, half-done) end. And they were both so beautifully acted!
@@andre_p My only complaint about Eric was that he cheated on Adam. Otherwise, he was wonderful!
I like most tropes I’m not very picky when it comes to reading I guess my recent favorite would be the religious/sexuality ones I find that super interesting I read an amazing series by Keira Andrews about two gay young men leaving the amish. I also read a book I thought I’d love called First Man on Ice I read the whole book but wasn’t my cup of tea.
I don't like religious troupe in my books. It makes me really anxious. I've read a few novellas with it, but they were short so there wasn't much drama and it was ok, but a whole series about religion induced conflict kind of intimidates me.
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Another favourite trope is the *sports romance* one . The 6-book ‘Game Changer’ series by Rachel Reid is a priceless example. All 6 books also include the opposites attract trope. That makes me a happy camper 😍. Hockey romances abound (a lot more than football or baseball ones I think), most of them showing the hockey player MC as a lot ‘softer’ than the stereotypical jock we tend to automatically think of. One of the best ever MM books I’ve read focuses on football, though. It’s You and Me by Tal Bauer (a very uneven author). It’s as perfect a story as could be. Warmly recommended
You may like The [Fake] Dating Game by Timothy Janovsky, not sure though. They start out fake dating, so they can audition for a games show based on Supermarket Sweep, so its got that fake dating and celebrity vibe. However, they are only fake dating for the show, but they clearly really like each other and would probably date if they didn't live in different cities. There is, also a lot of sexual tension and they try to have sex several times, but something always happens. Another one I think you'll like is Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe by Benjamin Alire Sáenz. Its YA, so there is no sex that I can recall. I want to say its friends to lovers, but is really best friends and they do love each other, but the main doesn't understand that his love for the other is more than the love you have for your best friend. Its also the 80s, so that culture of men not sharing comes out in the main. Lots of trauma as well, but its good and well written. They made a movie. The sequel Aristotle and Dante Dive into the Waters of the World is even better. Some sex, but not depicted, you just know it happened. Them exploring their relationship and what their future holds as they go through their senior year.
I've actually already read Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe and its sequel, and I really enjoyed the movie! :)
So, I don’t actually seek out romance stories, and I’m guessing I’m not anyone’s target audience. I’m ok with stories where romance is one component embedded in something larger. Most commonly, I consume romance stories that are integrated into coming-of-age stories where characters learn about themselves and the world as they navigate the transition to adulthood.
That being said, one of my favorite tropes is the love triangle, as long as it is a real triangle and not simply a love angle (two people interested in and competing for the same person). Real love triangles are inherently queer, and I enjoy the exploration of those implications for characters who are learning about themselves through whom they desire. The best love triangles either result in polyamory or with everyone going their separate ways after learning and growing (the romance dissolves universally). An acceptable alternative is two characters get together while the third character realizes that what they liked about the person they can’t have is something that can be found in someone else who is more compatible, and being in the love triangle helped clarify things for them to find a more suitable partner elsewhere, whom perhaps they already know and just hadn’t considered before. So yeah, self-discovery and growth over romance, and interpersonal conflict simply as a means to clarifying what is important versus what is surface-level, imposed expectation, or impossibly idealized.
Here from the reccomended page! Keep it up!
Oh no, not cockroaches! So sorry to hear that Thom, especially after all the trouble you had apartment-hunting last time around. I hope you're able to find something better soon.
I really like in like x-to-lovers tropes (enemies to lovers, rivals to lovers, friends to lovers, roommates to lovers, whatever) when the two main characters don't yet realise they like each other, but it gradually becomes blatantly obvious to everyone around them. And then _eventually_ the main characters realise they like each other, but they're still so gosh darn oblivious that they can't see that the other person is equally smitten. And then there's all these moments where one or the other of them _almost_ admits their feelings but it doesn't quite happen (because of fear or circumstances or an interruption or whatever) and they leave me screaming crying throwing my e-reader across the room... and then they _finally_ get together and it's *magic*.
I hate when there's an obvious power imbalance in the relationship. Like large age gaps, or royal & subject, or employer & employee, etc. In some cases these can be done well by having multiple power dynamics that work in different directions to balance each other out, but often they just give me the icks.
I have to say, the troupe of them needing to keep it hidden at first but grow progressivly more tired of it and have more difficulty hiding it, works way too well for me.
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A trope I feel unsure about is the Age Gap one.
It’s always a bit awkward to me. When it’s done with taste it works very well.
Examples: in Common Goal (in Rachel Reid’s Game Changer series), freshly divorced Eric Bennett, 39-yo hockey goalie meets 22-yo bar waiter Kyle. Eric is tempted to go out and redefine his sexuality. A quiet intellectual and art collector, he meets Kyle, the sweet waiter of his favourite bar. It’s actually the younger man who patiently introduces the older man to that aspect of his sexuality. Very nice, if still a bit awkward (for me).
In the Something Like series, author Jay Bell has college student Tim accidentally meet 55-yo Eric, a reserved, quiet rich gay man. Nothing happens at first, but eventually they meet again just as Eric discovers he has cancer. Tim has been kicked out of home and Eric greets him in his house. Nothing sexual ever develops/happens between them. Tim becomes Eric’s ward and accompanies him until the end. They connect emotionally and love each other deeply. It’s a very sweet story, not awkward this time (because there is no physicality in their relationship).
I like the pregnancy the trope its one of my favorite and I don't like fake dating
They should check the neighboring apartments. It's likely the infestation is coming from a neighbor. I hate apartment living. I'm slowly transitioning to vehicle dwelling. It sounds crazy to most people, but there are ways to do it comfortably. Mind you, I don't have any kids or pets, so it's easy for me. I just have to find a friend or family member who will let me use their address for my legal address.
There aren't really any tropes I hate. If it's done well, it's all good to me. I recently read Alexis Hall's 10 Things that Never Happened, and it was a fun little rom-com. I hope someone will bring us a screen adaptation.
BTW, I'm glad the bookshelf is back; I missed it!
hani and ishu's guide to fake dating is also really cute
Good luck with apartment hunting, cockroaches are terrible. I only had red ants infestation, but it was similar to your situation, I also had to lock up all of my food out of their reach, because they were literally everywhere.
As for tropes, I like friends to lovers or emotional scars (ahem, Heartstopper, but not just that), but I don't like misunderstandings, bullying as a form of gaining attention and "ugly duckling" and the "popular person".
Just like you said, I also like when conflicts are sorted by talking it out in a mature way, not blowing it out of proportion and ignoring each other.
Tbh love triangles can be done right, but it rarely is. I love when they end with polyamory though
May I recommend Icebreaker by A L Graziadei? It’s a queer enemies/rivals to lovers sports romance between two hockey players. Just read it a couple days ago and loved it a lot :’)
I've read that one! It's a good one for sure, and I've been meaning to reread it. Maybe this is a sign I should. :)
15:02 Yes, there’s a lot of casual cruelty involved. Also, normalise small gestures.
17:36 “He plays with your hair and puts chewing gum in your hair? It means he loves you.”
Oof, yes, I can safely say I very much dislike the Liar Revealed trope! 😵💫
But other than that I haven't been able to figure out what I like or don't like in books. It's quite frustrating, actually. The unscripted video makes me very happy 🥰 but I get that they are too much work, especially now. Wishing you lots of luck with the apartment hunting, I hope you can get out of there soon! 🤞🤞
3:30 I mean, cashew cheese is a thing so cheesy is still on brand for you.
have you read captive prince? best queer novel out there imo
ENEMYDOM? Haha love that! 😂
A trope I refuse to participate in is a queer person cheating on their her relationship to fidciver themselves and meet their soulmate. And I hate it more when there are children involved. It's the exact reason I refused to watch thst Brandon Fraser movie.
This trope is ehat made me very homophobic growing up because I thought gay people were users, harmful, selfish and all these things it'd take someone to do that to another person and/or their own kids.
The roaches might be living in a neighbor's apartment and coming into yours
I have read "bully" romances that worked (though not true bullies generally), but it is such a problematic genre and sends a really bad message to young audiences.
Boyfriend Material doesn't do it for me. Fake dating maybe isnt my trope.
So following this, I gather that the ideal story would be about the sons of the political leaders of two rival nations (so for example USA and Russia) who really dislike each other, then they start a fake relationship for some reason (maybe to better the relations between the two countries?), but eventually start to bond over their shared interest in sports.
I was looking away for a minute. I thought that thing about cockroaches was like a book or something. Very confusing. Maybe gay cockroache societies should be a trope.
Why does one of them have to just be figuring this out? I prefer books where both parties are already out when they meet.