@spiceaddict7967 gotcha. after doing a few months of MoF I've come to appreciate electrified scoring. but I wouldn't say that non-electric is terrible, nor that HEMA is more about spectacle than actual competiveness
8:04 I'm a Mexican fencer, the Paola pliego incident goes much deeper, it involves corruption, a personal vendetta of the Mexican's federation president, power plays, lawsuits, and the fact that we lost our testing laboratory due to the scandal. Happy to share what i know.
Occasionally strange things happen around olympic qualification as well. Sometimes a national federation decline to nominate a fencer who HAS QUALIFIED and hence they are not allowed to go, even if they want to. I don't know the details exactly but I recall this happening in 2008 when a Swiss fencer (?) was not nominated after failing to make an L32 at the Europeans in the same year(?). Richard Kruse got her slot as a wildcard and finished 14th. How upset would you be that you had achieved the IOC/FIE qualifying standard but your national federation declined to nominate you!?
If I recall correctly Mariel Zagunis only made it to Athens because Nigeria decided not to send their fencer who had qualified. Zagunis won gold that year too.
@@SlicerSabre in a similar light, the only reason Japan's Men Epee team only participate in 2020/2021Olympics because they were the host (since they weren't qualify the normal way), but suddenly they got gold
Errigo's sabre adventures come to mind, but I think it was more the case that she was told in advance that she couldn't be considered for both teams during the selection period. The situation you're describing where the NOC sets a higher standard than the IOC and FIE is the case in my country. Basically, anyone who qualifies must also be in the top 16 of world rankings for their respective category, or else the NOC won't send them. Because of this, the more feasible route to the Olympics is via team qualification.
@@christianalbertjahns2577 same with the Australian epee team in 2000. I don’t like The rules surrounding Olympic fencing. Suits bigger nation’s perfectly fine though
This is amazing, any seriously competitive fencer with aims at taking to the national and international stage should watch this as education. Like all sport, it gets ugly and political the deeper you go. A lot of stories here of dedicated sportsmen being deterred by the powers that be, cautionary tales for Olympic hopefuls as well as potential FIE referees. I've always thought Usmanov being the kingpin of world fencing is a terrible precedent, of course the corruption of a Putin-wed Oligarch will trickle down to all avenues of the sport. Yet the free world has and will continue look the other way for that sweet Russian cashola. Take note, take care.
That's just being biased against Russians as nationality - that's racist right there. Note that US and European athletes been doping left and right - but because sport federations are on their side- they make "exceptions" for them, while simultaneously banning Russian medical substances, that are unique to Russian nation only, even if it is harmless vitamin. Besides, you fail to realize that US fencers were never banned from any world fencings, when US invaded Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan! Neither Ukrainian fencers were ever banned when their government started civil war with Eastern territories. Considering those two obvious facts - Russian fencers should of never been banned to begin with. But no - we got double standards here, what you brand as "free world" - which is full of corruption.
@@digimaks Disparaging a genocidal murderer and his rich, corrupt, murderous drones does not equate to discrimination of all of Russia. If Trump, or even Bezos was the FIE President, I would have the exact same opinion. I was on the WUG Team for USA in Kazan 2014. To this day, I still have living Russian friends whom I appreciate and respect dearly. Is hating Kim Jong-Un the same as hating all North Koreans? You're wrong - American fencers / USOC has never state sponsored a doping program, for Fencers, or any Olympic sport, if not ever, certainly within the last 50 years. Individual American athletes have made the illegal decision to dope, have been caught and stripped of their medals, then shamed/banned for life. Sounds fair to me. MORE should be done to punish the Russian athletes that doped, but that isn't really in the USOC's interest (read: corruption). The one to ban the athletes should be the Russian Olympic Committee...but they are the very cheaters and either have no integrity or respect for their own ability (which is ludicrous, Russian athletes are incredible), or are more likely being manipulated by the state to do so. I also don't think you understand what racism is (actually, 'racism' itself is fiction - we are all the same race.) I THINK you mean ethnic/skin color discrimination, which is still dead wrong since Russia is extremely diverse...probably more non-whites than whites in the totality of it, thanks to all that conquering. Russians are ridiculous with this, you are NOT your state. You just happen to live there. People can hate Russia as a state and its policies, international offenses, without hating the individuals. They are people, like you and I. Unfortunately many are silenced, many more brainwashed into thinking 'I am Russia, Russia is me.' It's quite sad, really. The US didn't invade any of those places...or they'd be part of the United States by now. The USA retaliated. Justified response in all cases? Hell no. But that's the fundamental difference, we were attacked, and retaliated against the offender. Russia is not retaliating, …maybe indirectly against NATO's strategic aggression (whom is not technically* at war), but not to Ukraine. Russia is proactively committing genocide on Ukrainians with the intent of absorbing it back into the Russian state. The age of conquering is over - which makes that internationally illegal. While the Russian people are not responsible individually, as a collective they have enabled this to happen and deserve the consequences for aligning with the leaders they stand behind. That goes for America too, and no I am not proud of MOST of our leaders...but at least I have the freedom to say that. If you have any defense for the leadership of Russia, I have nothing to say to you, for you are already lost.
@@digimaks You ticked nearly all the boxes Alexi, but you forgot to mention western colonialism, the lgbt agenda and multipolarity, for that we will be withholding your payment of 5 rubles for this post.
I started fencing recently having done kickboxing for several years, i can tell you moving in a straight line during a bout is just as weird to me as moving in circles is to you lol
I expect that even weirder will be, that you suddenly have to totally change the way you use your attacking and defending arm basically flipping the torso/shoulder position in relation to the opponent...
Another interesting stories that has yet to be included (if you ever considering making a continuation, that is) 1. Andrea Baldini's positive doping result that disqualified him from 2008 Olympic qualification (that somehow many people believe him not doping), which resulted in Andrea Cassara going to Peking instead, which Cassara also made comment about it (which some considered it inappropriate, further increasing support for Baldini) which resulted in arguably unhealthy rivalry between the two that lasts for years. Baldini being the highest ranking Italian foilist (from what I've heard) certainly didn't help either 2. Shin A-lam's defeat at 2012 London at the hand of Britta Heidemann that happened because of referee's mistake (yes, I argue thus happened courtesy of mistake in refereeing) that arguably cause FIE to implement fractional second in the timer for referee and audience to see. Some conspiracy theorists make accusation that the referee in Shin-Heidemann bout commited favoritism (for lack of better words) in favor of Heidemann and it's all rigged to ensure Heidemann's smooth sailing to podium because said referee presided Heidemann's bouts three times in a row (I haven't confirmed this "fact" but since it's epee, the claim is pretty much unsubstantiated even if it was true)
The way in which referees are assigned is by drawing lots, and they are drawn so that four referees do a quarter of the tableau. So it is not unusual or suspicious that one referee referees several bouts for one fencer.
@@wilfie8374 the claim would have credence if the discipline in question is foil or sabre, but Shin and Heidemann fenced epee, which referee almost make no decision for points, at least compared to foil and sabre
Regarding Cannone, could the recent changes to epee also have helped (in addition to Jerent being dropped). Rule changes can absolutely help or her an individual fencer. It would be awesome to see Lohkanov fence for the US. I can imagine the field being very competitive for spots on the team, given both Heathcocks fence for the US. No joke... that warm up footwork training song is used at my club from time to time.
Great video! It has already been mentioned, but Heidemann-Shin needs to be in the sequel video. As does passivity and Melis Loits in Nimes (you did a video in that already, right?). And maybe this is too morbid, but Smirnov‘s death is a major turning point in modern fencing.
In the next part you can maybe include the shin a lam and brita heideman controversu, 2015 world dolniceanu vs homer when dolniceanu clearly hit but there was a technical problem and the touch wasnt registered, at the 2022 jwc in Belgrade in the mens team epee semifinal (usa vs egypt) when elsayed hit himself and referee gave a touch to elsayed and the ariana errigo controversy about not being allowed to compete in both sabre and foil
I’m a little confused about the touch where Kim junho crossed and then both of them hit, so if the touch for junho was annulled would it be a touch for Aron because he hit as well (but without right of way) or because he had the right of way? Just asking this because I was wondering if this was a general rule, not too familiar with saber
From my childhood I remembered Olympics athletes represent their citizenship country. How does a Mexican athlete just up and decide she fences for Uzbekistan?
+1 it was very hard to see which one gets the point for the last 3 touches. Dont know if its just different referees different standards, referees being biased, or just the match being hard to judge
I feel like I could go either way with fleche rule change. As a sabre fencer, I like the idea of being able to cross since it will add new moves and strategy to your actions both defense and offense. But I also get what some people are saying that it will make sabre bouts go by too quickly.
No, he's just being too hateful to Russians in particular. Lots of stuff he said is overstated or downright lie. Tell me, why Russian athletes have to be banned form world sports due to Russin invasion of Ukraine, yet when US invaded dozens fo countries previously- NOT ONCE US athletes have ever been banned in such ruthless way!!!! Neither Ukraine have ever been punished for starting a civil war from 2014 till 2022 against its Eastern population which simply did not agree with the coup -installed govt! This Russia-hate need to stop.
I don’t dislike Olympic fencing, I just don’t really understand it. To me it looks like they just run at each other and hope the sword hits the other a split second first most of the time. Maybe it’s because I do HEMA and doubles are a thing so it’s hard to imagine not having them, but idk
The circle it’s from the destreza and historical fencing . It’s stupidbelive that a REAL fencing combat youre honda have a rectangle, a circule or wathever. But in modern fencing weapons like saber , foil it’s more properly in rectangular line
@@moXnoX1 You have it reversed, Ivan. Maybe it's your poor English. First Russians cheat (e.g. fraudulent Sochi blood testing lab), then they get suspended. It's not politics - just cheating.
Io trovo assurdo che gli atleti russi siano stati esclusi dalle gare! Bene che partecipino TUTTI! Se dovessimo escludere un paese ogni volta che fa una guerra gli USA non dovrebbero mai gareggiare!
This one took a lot of time to put together, hope you find it interesting...
@@craigvandevooren2341 Which part of this video is "Russia-bashing"?
As a HEMA practitioner who recently started fencing, your confusion when hearing of people fighting in a circle is quite funny to me xD
HEMA is a joke fr.
Dude is mixing everything into one bag.
@spiceaddict7967 what do you mean by dry fencing? never heard that term before and I do both MoF and HEMA
@spiceaddict7967 gotcha. after doing a few months of MoF I've come to appreciate electrified scoring. but I wouldn't say that non-electric is terrible, nor that HEMA is more about spectacle than actual competiveness
@@matziwakzi5015 you are a joke
8:04 I'm a Mexican fencer, the Paola pliego incident goes much deeper, it involves corruption, a personal vendetta of the Mexican's federation president, power plays, lawsuits, and the fact that we lost our testing laboratory due to the scandal. Happy to share what i know.
Occasionally strange things happen around olympic qualification as well. Sometimes a national federation decline to nominate a fencer who HAS QUALIFIED and hence they are not allowed to go, even if they want to. I don't know the details exactly but I recall this happening in 2008 when a Swiss fencer (?) was not nominated after failing to make an L32 at the Europeans in the same year(?). Richard Kruse got her slot as a wildcard and finished 14th. How upset would you be that you had achieved the IOC/FIE qualifying standard but your national federation declined to nominate you!?
If I recall correctly Mariel Zagunis only made it to Athens because Nigeria decided not to send their fencer who had qualified. Zagunis won gold that year too.
@@SlicerSabre in a similar light, the only reason Japan's Men Epee team only participate in 2020/2021Olympics because they were the host (since they weren't qualify the normal way), but suddenly they got gold
Errigo's sabre adventures come to mind, but I think it was more the case that she was told in advance that she couldn't be considered for both teams during the selection period.
The situation you're describing where the NOC sets a higher standard than the IOC and FIE is the case in my country. Basically, anyone who qualifies must also be in the top 16 of world rankings for their respective category, or else the NOC won't send them. Because of this, the more feasible route to the Olympics is via team qualification.
@@christianalbertjahns2577 same with the Australian epee team in 2000.
I don’t like The rules surrounding Olympic fencing. Suits bigger nation’s perfectly fine though
This is amazing, well done!
This is amazing, any seriously competitive fencer with aims at taking to the national and international stage should watch this as education. Like all sport, it gets ugly and political the deeper you go. A lot of stories here of dedicated sportsmen being deterred by the powers that be, cautionary tales for Olympic hopefuls as well as potential FIE referees. I've always thought Usmanov being the kingpin of world fencing is a terrible precedent, of course the corruption of a Putin-wed Oligarch will trickle down to all avenues of the sport. Yet the free world has and will continue look the other way for that sweet Russian cashola. Take note, take care.
That's just being biased against Russians as nationality - that's racist right there. Note that US and European athletes been doping left and right - but because sport federations are on their side- they make "exceptions" for them, while simultaneously banning Russian medical substances, that are unique to Russian nation only, even if it is harmless vitamin. Besides, you fail to realize that US fencers were never banned from any world fencings, when US invaded Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan! Neither Ukrainian fencers were ever banned when their government started civil war with Eastern territories. Considering those two obvious facts - Russian fencers should of never been banned to begin with. But no - we got double standards here, what you brand as "free world" - which is full of corruption.
@@digimaks Disparaging a genocidal murderer and his rich, corrupt, murderous drones does not equate to discrimination of all of Russia. If Trump, or even Bezos was the FIE President, I would have the exact same opinion. I was on the WUG Team for USA in Kazan 2014. To this day, I still have living Russian friends whom I appreciate and respect dearly. Is hating Kim Jong-Un the same as hating all North Koreans? You're wrong - American fencers / USOC has never state sponsored a doping program, for Fencers, or any Olympic sport, if not ever, certainly within the last 50 years. Individual American athletes have made the illegal decision to dope, have been caught and stripped of their medals, then shamed/banned for life. Sounds fair to me. MORE should be done to punish the Russian athletes that doped, but that isn't really in the USOC's interest (read: corruption). The one to ban the athletes should be the Russian Olympic Committee...but they are the very cheaters and either have no integrity or respect for their own ability (which is ludicrous, Russian athletes are incredible), or are more likely being manipulated by the state to do so.
I also don't think you understand what racism is (actually, 'racism' itself is fiction - we are all the same race.) I THINK you mean ethnic/skin color discrimination, which is still dead wrong since Russia is extremely diverse...probably more non-whites than whites in the totality of it, thanks to all that conquering. Russians are ridiculous with this, you are NOT your state. You just happen to live there. People can hate Russia as a state and its policies, international offenses, without hating the individuals. They are people, like you and I. Unfortunately many are silenced, many more brainwashed into thinking 'I am Russia, Russia is me.' It's quite sad, really.
The US didn't invade any of those places...or they'd be part of the United States by now. The USA retaliated. Justified response in all cases? Hell no. But that's the fundamental difference, we were attacked, and retaliated against the offender. Russia is not retaliating, …maybe indirectly against NATO's strategic aggression (whom is not technically* at war), but not to Ukraine. Russia is proactively committing genocide on Ukrainians with the intent of absorbing it back into the Russian state. The age of conquering is over - which makes that internationally illegal. While the Russian people are not responsible individually, as a collective they have enabled this to happen and deserve the consequences for aligning with the leaders they stand behind. That goes for America too, and no I am not proud of MOST of our leaders...but at least I have the freedom to say that.
If you have any defense for the leadership of Russia, I have nothing to say to you, for you are already lost.
@@digimaks You ticked nearly all the boxes Alexi, but you forgot to mention western colonialism, the lgbt agenda and multipolarity, for that we will be withholding your payment of 5 rubles for this post.
Update: Lokhanov won the US national championship ten minutes ago.
I started fencing recently having done kickboxing for several years, i can tell you moving in a straight line during a bout is just as weird to me as moving in circles is to you lol
Right? Especially to a fighter who specialize in cutting angles, stepping outside is so in our blood.
I expect that even weirder will be, that you suddenly have to totally change the way you use your attacking and defending arm basically flipping the torso/shoulder position in relation to the opponent...
Another interesting stories that has yet to be included (if you ever considering making a continuation, that is)
1. Andrea Baldini's positive doping result that disqualified him from 2008 Olympic qualification (that somehow many people believe him not doping), which resulted in Andrea Cassara going to Peking instead, which Cassara also made comment about it (which some considered it inappropriate, further increasing support for Baldini) which resulted in arguably unhealthy rivalry between the two that lasts for years. Baldini being the highest ranking Italian foilist (from what I've heard) certainly didn't help either
2. Shin A-lam's defeat at 2012 London at the hand of Britta Heidemann that happened because of referee's mistake (yes, I argue thus happened courtesy of mistake in refereeing) that arguably cause FIE to implement fractional second in the timer for referee and audience to see. Some conspiracy theorists make accusation that the referee in Shin-Heidemann bout commited favoritism (for lack of better words) in favor of Heidemann and it's all rigged to ensure Heidemann's smooth sailing to podium because said referee presided Heidemann's bouts three times in a row (I haven't confirmed this "fact" but since it's epee, the claim is pretty much unsubstantiated even if it was true)
The way in which referees are assigned is by drawing lots, and they are drawn so that four referees do a quarter of the tableau. So it is not unusual or suspicious that one referee referees several bouts for one fencer.
@@wilfie8374 the claim would have credence if the discipline in question is foil or sabre, but Shin and Heidemann fenced epee, which referee almost make no decision for points, at least compared to foil and sabre
Regarding Cannone, could the recent changes to epee also have helped (in addition to Jerent being dropped). Rule changes can absolutely help or her an individual fencer.
It would be awesome to see Lohkanov fence for the US. I can imagine the field being very competitive for spots on the team, given both Heathcocks fence for the US.
No joke... that warm up footwork training song is used at my club from time to time.
This is actually super good and interesting
Unique fencing channel. Pls keep uploading 🤝
Dope video
Great video!
It has already been mentioned, but Heidemann-Shin needs to be in the sequel video. As does passivity and Melis Loits in Nimes (you did a video in that already, right?).
And maybe this is too morbid, but Smirnov‘s death is a major turning point in modern fencing.
Awesome video, thank you for this
Circle fencing I think comes from spanish/portuguese style of (real)rapier tactics.
the footwork training song had me crying hahah
I know these kind of videos generally get lots of views, commenting to try and help achieve it 🫡 dope video as well!
Unfortunely.
Paola pliego’s false doping was ángel horrible case.
I’m mexican and all that time was horrible
In the next part you can maybe include the shin a lam and brita heideman controversu, 2015 world dolniceanu vs homer when dolniceanu clearly hit but there was a technical problem and the touch wasnt registered, at the 2022 jwc in Belgrade in the mens team epee semifinal (usa vs egypt) when elsayed hit himself and referee gave a touch to elsayed and the ariana errigo controversy about not being allowed to compete in both sabre and foil
Bro this is God's work
We need a part 2
really well done video gj ! hoping for more of these coming
Why isn't a fencing a good idea? I always found it weird olympic fencers have to stay on that rectangle
Really nice video!! Would love a part two!
Don’t know much at all about fencing or even then controversies. So this was a nice video to watch 🔥🔥
Thanks for doing this. Far too little Fencing content out there outside of matches. Love a lil drama here and there.
I want to start fencing.
Is this a general theme in sports or is fencing somewhat special?
As an Indian even I didn't knew there was a circle fencing federation here but now ik thanks to u
who knew fencing has it's own version of Tabata? lol
Tbh, I find that doping in fencing can be neglected due to the sport's nature
I’m a little confused about the touch where Kim junho crossed and then both of them hit, so if the touch for junho was annulled would it be a touch for Aron because he hit as well (but without right of way) or because he had the right of way? Just asking this because I was wondering if this was a general rule, not too familiar with saber
i think because he hit, not because of right of way
From my childhood I remembered Olympics athletes represent their citizenship country.
How does a Mexican athlete just up and decide she fences for Uzbekistan?
1:32 Wait no one in MOF has heard of La Veradera Destreza?
Очень интересное видео особенно про Паолу Усманова и Логвина )
Footwork training is a classic tune
I am amazed that anything relevant came out of South Africa’s tiny fencing scene
13:54 where can I find the full song?
this. please.
czcams.com/video/tcEhLxJr2UI/video.htmlsi=7vdw3YDVzJqKs2fk
I love this 💖 Thank you
This is awesome!
Vice should do a Dark side of the piste.
What do you think of the refereeing on the 15/14 of Cheung vs Macchi
+1 it was very hard to see which one gets the point for the last 3 touches. Dont know if its just different referees different standards, referees being biased, or just the match being hard to judge
I feel like I could go either way with fleche rule change. As a sabre fencer, I like the idea of being able to cross since it will add new moves and strategy to your actions both defense and offense. But I also get what some people are saying that it will make sabre bouts go by too quickly.
Exactly - why he makes such a big deal about that?! Rules in fencing change often, why sudden;y he singles out this in particular?
why did I watched this, I didn't even like fencing, lol
wow, the FIE is shady as hell dude
so basically Russia is currently the most controversial country for fencing xd
No, he's just being too hateful to Russians in particular. Lots of stuff he said is overstated or downright lie.
Tell me, why Russian athletes have to be banned form world sports due to Russin invasion of Ukraine, yet when US invaded dozens fo countries previously- NOT ONCE US athletes have ever been banned in such ruthless way!!!! Neither Ukraine have ever been punished for starting a civil war from 2014 till 2022 against its Eastern population which simply did not agree with the coup -installed govt!
This Russia-hate need to stop.
Always has been lol
Superb video. Good job.
I don’t dislike Olympic fencing, I just don’t really understand it. To me it looks like they just run at each other and hope the sword hits the other a split second first most of the time. Maybe it’s because I do HEMA and doubles are a thing so it’s hard to imagine not having them, but idk
that’s why I prefer epee
@@FencingViolinNerdis there a different ruleset for epee? I don’t know much about the Olympic rules and stuff, just from what I’ve seen
@@Theknightman-wg1dz there are double touches and the entire body is a target
@@Theknightman-wg1dz you can only hit with the tip of the blade
@@Theknightman-wg1dz also the most popular of the three
The circle it’s from the destreza and historical fencing .
It’s stupidbelive that a REAL fencing combat youre honda have a rectangle, a circule or wathever.
But in modern fencing weapons like saber , foil it’s more properly in rectangular line
thank you
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Nice
_«...are very offensive *and would have been so even if he wasn't the best sabre fencer of the world.»_
13:37 Fixed.
Мда, не думал, что мы и здесь наактивничали. Ну, даже что-то позитивное в этом есть
Nice video also
It’s great and saber is just better
Let's go
It's pathetic, can't even call it a sport. Playing tag with needles is ridiculous.
Cambodia ❤🇰🇭
Time to make a new one with Louis Marie cheating 😂😂😂
Why is there a fencing iceberg?
This is Russo-phobic and abelist
Nic
🍵
Где спорт там и политика и без этого никак
When a Russian uses the word "politics", what that means in English is "cheating".
@@tkrouse1 agree, f.e. west should not ban russian atletes from competitions, that's cheating
@@moXnoX1 You have it reversed, Ivan. Maybe it's your poor English. First Russians cheat (e.g. fraudulent Sochi blood testing lab), then they get suspended. It's not politics - just cheating.
Io trovo assurdo che gli atleti russi siano stati esclusi dalle gare! Bene che partecipino TUTTI! Se dovessimo escludere un paese ogni volta che fa una guerra gli USA non dovrebbero mai gareggiare!
Really convincing argument buddy
Do you have instagram?