@@MrPeteypoo if they have acted in the same criminal way then yes they should too.......I'm afraid living in the England though and watching the Tories break numerous rules , laws and moral codes for over a decade means they are the ones of the front of my mind
It's exactly as Nick Abbot says, "What would Donald Trump do?" Whatever action Trump advises, or states must / should go ahead, the Tories follow 'to the letter', and claim Trump's "ideas" as their own.
Hold on why are they alluding that this is a Labour deal when the Tories are the ones that introduced it and reinforced it??? Thank the TORIES for this practice and just another thing for Labour to clean up and be blamed for.
I think the point is making sure the Labour government will fix this, now that they are in office. Given the scarcity of doctors they will be tempted to just get along with the existing Tory policy.
I am a pharmacist and say no to these associates and pharmacists that think they are Drs .Its really bad as mistakes will and have been made.I have seen the errors myself.Its not safe.
It's extremely concerning that you as a pharmacist have such a terrible grasp on basic grammar and punctuation. I think you're not who you say you are.
Very little is said about the 600,000 medical staff leaving UK to get better pay and conditions in Australia, Canada, USA. NZ etc. This needs stopping, Simple. It's a 10-fold increase on what it has been.
@@joylloyd6636 I’ve worked 15 years in nhs, paid my student loans, paid my taxes.. how do you suggest we stop me moving for a better life (pay and conditions)? I’m guessing you don’t want to increase tax, but want more for your money? How?
😡S tarmer wants to fix this and give public servants decent pay. The Tories spaffed huge amounts of money up the wall during covid and Trusses mistakes cos us £30 billion. The Tories should pay!
I was a first responder and I would never give my health in other hands than a full educated medical doctor….even thinking about a half educated diagnosting me is crazy…
Do you need a top level surgeon to diagnose a stubbed toe? Why should you waste thier time on a minor hurt? Triage!!! I'm a bit alarmed that a first responder dosent know this, especially since you practiced exactly what you decry.
@@dougaltolan3017Stubbed Toes rarely see a G.P.....As a trained Nurse from 1970's, I worked as Rehabilitation 'Tech' for 10 years, attached to Occupational Therapists And Physiotherapists.....We were 'Associates ' But our Role was to Support and perform Additional tasks under the Guidance of the Qualified Therapist.....We only worked with patients AFTER the provisional Assessment with a Therapist .....WE did NOT perform the Actual diagnosis.....But when Tories came into power, They were Trying to push Us further into the Therapist territory.....All to save money....
@@dougaltolan3017 you know nothing….a „bachelor“ should do that?….even real doctors have problems with diagnostics …wishful thinking don‘t save lives…and top level surgeons never do triage that‘s the job of emergency doctors…they are just waiting in the hospital to do the surgery and to take care about the patients afterwards….
Even as a first responder, I doubt you'd pick and choose who has the best knowledge to help you in a critical condition. You should know that it's an entire MDT that come around and should know that it's the consultant that calls the shots but the consultant has their MDT that include physician associates around patients always. Like seriously did you not know that.
😮My daughter in law quit as a junior doctor in a GP practice because she was tired of being asked to sign off diagnosis and treatment plans prepared by physician associated with no patient exam of her own.
@@priscillaroberts7945 You're absolutely right! Doctors alone can't do medicine, it takes a whole MDT which Physician associates and other health professionals. The longer the waiting list, the more reason to have more MDT to help
@@priscillaroberts7945 So are more foreign doctors coming in and replacing the ones leaving. They too are coming from far less conditions and appreciate the conditions of the NHS that they've never worked for, so they complain less.
@@ThePushUKLifestyle doctors are being offered a decent pay agreement at last so we may turn a corner and keep what we have as well as attract some to come back .
For time immemorial (for me at least) it is forbidden for a patient to tell a doctor what's wrong. For a patient to recognise and decide the difference between medical practitioners is a symptom of this. How do you, as a patient, know what level of healthcare you need?
The PA role should be stopped altogether, it’s cut-price medicine which puts patients lives at risk. The original rationale for the PA (Physician’s Assistant or Associate) came from the USA and was partly borne out of combat medics returning from Vietnam but having no jobs to turn to in the civilian sector and partly because they could be “trained up” to carry out some roles that doctors traditionally did. In the USA, unlike the UK, there’s a strict scope of practice and it’s also driven by the for-profit healthcare system.
Do you really think that Drs aren't also "trained up"? Or do you think that by going to medical school for a total of 3 years, 4 years, 5 or 6 years to become Drs mean that Drs are safe to practice without supervision? Even Drs are under supervision themselves until they become consultants and are in training throughout so why do you think that physician associates after PA school are not "trained up" in their role despite also being under the supervision of consultants just like junior Drs. By the way, the scope of practice for physician associates in the UK have been in existence since day one of their introduction to the UK over 20 years ago so if anyone spreading this false info cared to do some research, they'll easily find it. It's baffling to say the least that a profession that has been in existence for over 2 decades all of a sudden is unsafe for patients because the GMC, the same body that regulates doctors have decided to regulate physician associates and some doctors feel threatened about this when they really should not as they're THE Drs.
@@ThePushUKLifestyle and there we have it. I’m keen to know which medical school trains doctors over a 3 year period? If you’re referring to students from St Andrews then the agreement is they do 3 years at St Andrews and a further 3 years at a medical school within the UK, thus they’re actually doing 6 years in total. 4 year programmes are for post graduates in an approved 4 year pathways e.g. Nottingham. The standard is usually 5 years and if you intercalate whilst you’re at medical school then it’s 6 years. The PA programme is simply cut price medicine. The reported base salary range is in excess of £40,000 with minimal night cover or weekends and evenings (if any), yet they can’t prescribe medication nor request radiological imaging, but they’ll ask a junior doctor to do so on their behalf. The inception of the role was poorly planned in the UK. Yes doctors are trained up over an extended period of time and they don’t stop even after graduating (entering higher speciality training). Sure, PA’s are post-grads but there already is a problem for doctors in training to get valid hands on training, why should they make way for a role that’s poorly defined and poorly implemented. So exactly why should the tax payer pay for someone to do a medical assessment yet that person can’t even prescribe or request investigations? Where exactly is the cost savings? There blatantly isn’t. Do doctors make mistakes? Yes they do, but there’s a chain of accountability. Tell me which body do PA’s answer too? The NMC? The GMC? It’s not about the person it’s about a role that’s been thrust into the NHS that wasn’t needed in the first place!
@@willienelsongonzalez4609 Well, the McMaster university in Canada trains doctors in just 3 years and there you have it. You can't have a problem with PAs not working nights because no one said that they're doctors. It's doctors that do those shifts. Why are you forcing PAs into the doctor box of needing to prescribe and order investigations when THEY ARE NOT DOCTORS? PAs are masters degree holders and of course their pay should reflect this. Doctors in their own training as they climb up their training ladder, have their pay also reflecting this. A nurse of 30 years in the NHS, I'm pretty sure may be on a higher pay than a day one F1 doctor and the nurse would still take instructions from that F1 doc, a nurse of 30 years experience would also ask an F1 Doc to prescribe pain meds for a patient despite them having more experience than the F1 doc so your point really is? You didn't need to spell out the training for each years of medical school as I mentioned above because I already know that hence I spelt them out the way I did. Have you really done your research? The Faculty of Physician Associates have been the body for PAs since their introduction over 2 decades ago and soon to be the GMC. By the way, every member of the MDT has every right to train in their role including physician associates, healthcare assistance, non-medical staff. EVERY SINGLE one of them and not just doctors alone. They should make way for ALL because EVERYONE needs to be just as good. It's patients' lives we're talking about here and doctors CANNOT be the only members of an MDT. It's called an MDT for a reason. Oh and just so you know, the tax payer pays for doctors and not PAs to train. PAs usually fund their own training. Again, some research would help.
@emmabrooker166 Can I just ask... To become a CBT Practitioner, doesn't the person already need to have experience working as a mental health professional such as a counsellor or a mental health nurse before becoming a CBT Practitioner?
@@lukaszwason5031Clinical Assistant Psychologists, they are not regulated by the HCPC and they are not practitioner Psychologists. But because they have the words clinical and psychologist people tend to assume that they are the same as a Clinical Psychologist.
This is exactly wherein the problem lies. The terminology is confusing and can mislead patients. Physicians are doctors. Physician Associates however, are not.
enough to make you want to go private isnt it. im on usa private..top level. they pay out the same as the nhs (for whats needed) and it only costs us 15% of wages. my spine surgery i had to pay 5k up front out of 10k total costs. kids epilepsy meds went fron $3pm to $400pm because the insurers found a way to move to a more proffitable supplier (screw the patients, let them have seizures if they wont pay) you see the likes of rishi dont use insurance companies. they just pay outright because they can. the good doctors. the medical insurance companies are a scam. a very proffitable one, and that makes us very saleable to the market.
Depends on the medical school you go to though. The McMaster university in Canada medical school is 3 years then if you came back to do F1/2 for 2 years and GP training for 3 years that would make 8 years.
See! Many of us say it is many of the senior NHS management that need sacking -with no termination packages or pensions. Then use this money as extra cash into the NHS and employ people who actually work and not spend their time organising 'Jolley's #' Why does it take a 'Sir' or a pal to run the NHS.
We the people can state to pratices and hospital receptions that we DON'T wantt to be seen by a PA and most certainly we won't have an anesthetic administed by an Associate Anesthesiologist. These PAs and AAs are used throughout the NHS, I would never allow an AA administer any drug to me, anesthesiologists are fully trained doctors who have also trained in the specialty of pain control and anesthetics. Say no to the practice
Lol! While you're at it, don't forget to include all other non-doctor healthcare professionals who also make up an MDT just like physician associates do. Do you really think that doctors do not need an MDT around them? Lol
Will Streeting do anything about physician associates? No ! Labour has never spoken about the over 100k vacancies that are unfilled in the NHS, they do however speak about private sector involvement, they have shown no support for striking NHS workers and they like the Tories will not efficiently fund the NHS, which is not surprising when Streeting himself has taken over 193k from people with links to private health care. The NHS needs fixing and it needs the staff to put it back together not politicians who want to sell it off
My mum was in hospital last year. Nurse said to a colleague I'm leaving the NHS I don't want to but they shifts don't work for me and the pay is too low. Makes you want to weep
The PA role is a set one which is not ever meant to be a "doctor" - and they are a great benefit, but only if used correctly. They could actually help resolve the waiting list and general practice. The BMA are perfectly correct and Labour should take note of them and resolve the issues outlined in it.
Physician Associates are no medical doctors at all. I would not want to be “treated” by them, imagine having to have a discussion about the qualifications of said associates when they suggest diagnosis/ medication or treatment. I would not trust them at all. Unacceptable
How many times have you asked the doctors who treat you about their qualifications? I think you'll be more so worried about your condition than their qualifications when they're working with their consultants as part of an MDT.
doctor's surgeries and dentist's surgeries have long become businesses where profits are being skimmed by owners and corporates. greed and care just don't go well together, t's not too difficult to see.
Medical associates are unregistered and therefore not accountable and not to be confused with Advanced clinical practitioners who are registered practitioners such as nurses, paramedics and pharmacists who do a three year masters degree qualification on top of their initial three year qualification at degree level.
I have direct experience of this. In cardiology in my part of Wales the only option is to see a PA. I had an echo requested by my GP, and was diagnosed with heart failure and less than 12 months to live. I asked to see a cardiologist and was told it was 14 months wait. I had to go private to get the needed scans and tests done and to speak to a qualified cardiologist. They identified other problems that meant I needed immediate surgery, but that was available only privately (£20k), as I would heed to wait 14 months for an NHS appt, or I could risk having a major heart attack, and if I survived I would have the surgery. When I returned to the PA and told her that the prescribed drugs were causing a worsening of diabetes - previously well controlled , and a known problem needing skilled care - I was told she was only there for cardiac problems not diabetes. My GP was horrified, and uncontrolled diabetes is a known cardiac risk! So p!ss poor "care" causing more problems, then. Obviously I'm too old for NHS and too poor for privare poor for private
Still not DOCTORS. See this is the trouble nurses now don't want to be proper nurses and actually physically look after them at the bedside. It's the problem because they do a degree and not learning on the job like when nurses did a block of in the nursing school and then weeks on the wards ,actually learning . I know one degree nurse came onto the ward and told me she could transfer her degree to WORK IN A BANK. That to me shows NO DEDICATION. One Dr complained that a " nurse " wanted to do surgery. I'm sorry, but if they feel too good to be a proper nurse, then they should go to university to be a QUALIFIED doctor. It makes my blood boil . I am a retired trained nurse and midwife. It is unbelievable what has been encouraged by the government.
And happening at an operating theatre near you - "associate anaesthetists" - God help us. I've made it quite clear to my husband that if I'm out of it and need an emergency operation, that he can only give consent on my behalf if it's a qualified doctor doing the anaesthetic. If it's not, then he's under instructions to kick up merry hell until there is one. ALWAYS ask the job status of any medical "professional" that you encounter in the NHS as I've noticed a remarkable reticence by NHS staff to disclose their occupations to patients, especially those not wearing a lanyard which makes it clear eg consultant, doctor, nurse
I think it should be made very clear by secretaries when appointments are being made that you are going to see some sort of "Associate" Or a qualified GP.
Lives have been lost. It’s all over social media and doctors have been silenced. Public don’t want expensive experts, they would rather have cheap access.
And they are paid more initially than fully trained medical students and I believe they aren’t able to write prescriptions….so is there really a benefit….and they used to be called Physician assistant….
I really urgently need to see someone to get my mole checked out, as it could be melanoma, and now I'm hearing this awful news!! Absolutely don't know what to do now!! 😮
I guess this is no different to the introduction of going to your pharmacist for a medical diagnosis rather than trying to get an appointment at your GP who doesn’t see patients anymore as they are too busy doing paperwork.
Not true everywhere sent for CT scan. Specialist recommend change in medicatio got letter whilst on holiday so nothing was done. Text from doctors monday, sent in form offered telephone appointment, all I needed from Tuesday on. Had it today, mainly because I wasn't available, all sorted. What's wrong with that
Seems the tories feel they did cause enough deaths with austerity and covid mismanagement and corruption. Underpaying and undervaluing doctor’s wasn’t enough for them either. They should be stripped of their stolen assets and put in prisons. The overcrowded understaffed ones they are also responsible for
It was far worse than mismanagement, they are just hoping if no one says anything that debacle will just go away. Andrew Bridgen, was sadly let down by his constituency, no doubt the worst offenders will be relieved to see him gone.
Big instigator should be done n all services paid by NHS, then and only then we will know how many doctor and qualified nurses are out of work because corrupt management. 😔🕊🙏🏻✝️
So while Doctors were on strike and members of the public were punching down now have to talk to a PA… Oh dear. I didn’t think that was too smart at the time.
Who's bright idea was this fiasco then?. Yet more waste at a time when it's even more important to make sure resources are used wisely. No doubt no one will own up to this mess. Not to mention putting people at risk because they think they are being clever by trying to save money which no doubt it will cost probably more because of people sueing hospital trusts ect .
We love our PA in America ❤, They can diagnose prescribe medications order x rays and CT.. PA is a member of the healthcare team and play a vital role in America with out PA's, our health care system will be under tremendous pressure.
@@psiphon2808 you do know the private sector uses NHS doctors, and equipment. Not sure how leaning on the private sector is supposed to help, when it's got overworked doctors running in it, and leeching off NHS resources.
The government want to use private sector beds to increase the numbers that can be cared for. As said earlier, private sector staff are just rebadged NHS staff. I'd you are aware mist NHS services have been taken over by private companies already, even most staff are coming via agencies more than ever before. Agencies also private profit making companies.
@@psiphon2808 nope - but we can see what they are doing in Wales AND their history with PFI hospitals that resulted in fewer medical staff being employed in both situations!
Yes this is absolutely scandalous, doctoring on the cheap, and I'm absolutely horrified at what I have just heard here!! Right now I'm particularly scared because this morning I discovered a mole on my arm which has definitely changed in texture and colour, and it looked like it had been bleeding too and was a bit itchy!! Also we get this news that GPs are going on strike, so I really don't know what the hell to do. This is causing me serious anxiety as I absolutely don't want to see a physician associate because of the risk of them misdiagnosing me. Many other patients with serious conditions will not seek help if they know they can't see a proper doctor, and this is really diabolical!! Definitely going to cost lives!!
I had an NHS Dentist that had no dental training. I went for my next appointment and no longer a dental practice. I should have gathered that something was wrong when he put his knee on my shoulder when pulling out a wisdom tooth.
@@DellaWilliams-vo3ezBoth Starmer and Streeting have taken donations from a private healthcare fund. The man Starmer just appointed is a private health care lobbyist. Or are you choosing to be ignorant?
@@DellaWilliams-vo3ez In January 2022 and April 2023, Streeting accepted donations of £15,000 from hedge fund boss John Armitage for ‘staffing costs’ in his office. Armitage’s interests include a stake, reportedly worth in excess of $500 million, in US private health insurance giant UnitedHealth, America’s largest health insurer. This is not Streeting’s only link to private healthcare interests. Campaign group EveryDoctor also raised questions over donations from Peter Hearn, a majority shareholder in a recruitment agency which works with private healthcare companies, and his affiliated company MPM Connect Ltd. One of these donations exceeded £80,000, the group said, while another was almost £50,000.
@@basfinnis let's not forget that Starmer handpicked Praful Nargund, a private health care boss who believes the privatisation of healthcare is “very, very important,” to stand against Jeremy Corbyn, in Islington North. But thankfully Jeremy sent Labour homeward, to think again.
I thought the PA always has to work with consultants? No? If they are being put in a situation that they are the solely responsible of doing diagnosis and prescribing, I thing it is the hospital faults not the government? tell me if I am wrong!
Well from here on it’ is for Labour to rectify 🤔. Unless they too wish to save money on ‘qualified Doctors’. It’s Labours call now .. let’s see what they actually do.
Even if you wave a magic wand and get funded training contracts for doctors immediately, it'll take nearly a decade to build adequate staff numbers. Associates can train in 2. What do we do in the mean time? There is a role for associates. But only because of p!ss poor NHS workforce management over the last 14 years. Train them, supervise them, establish safe remits of care and enforce regulatory oversight. Or enjoy another decade of staffing issues.
There is a role as triage specialists,, perhaps, but not in diagnosis. I say this from personal experience and that of friends. We are refusing to see PAs, so that's not helping take any load off the GPs.
@moiraruff3292 I think what needs to be unpicked is what is appropriate use of associates, from inappropriate use. Associates "acting up" beyond their remit (eg covering oncall duties) due to a lack of trained staff is not what they should be used for. I also share your hesitation about associates with far less experience working in diagnostic roles. My wife is a GP and anecdotally the patient return rate is higher for associates/practice nurses than other GPs. 2 visits for 1 issue isn't saving time. But, relying on examples where associates are incorrectly used as evidence the whole idea is flawed is disingenuous. There are plenty of technical roles that could be filled. I'm an anaesthetist and work with some great anaesthesia associates. They work within strict remits, don't prescribe (yet), and only anaesthetise patients alone who are straight forward and having uncomplicated surgery. Help is always very close by if rare issues come around. Due to the restricted practice they have (locally) become experts in regional anaesthetic blocks, which they do more of than consultants. Don't get me wrong, dumbing down the workforce is a race to the bottom. But we are where we are. How long can medics bang the patient safety drum when there aren't any other staff? Some less trained staff following standard guidelines within set limits is a lesser of two evils. We've used this model for specialist nurses/GP nurses for years.
Train specialist doctors rather than training people in every discipline of medicine and it taking 10 years. Why does someone who knows they want to be a psychiatrist have to do a rotation in gynecology or dermatology, it has nothing to do with their job. Let them train for the specialism they want to do
@gillb9222 That will eliminate 2 years of foundation only. Beyond that everyone is within speciality training for the remaining 6-8 years. Those 2 years are needed so anyone can do a basic examination and start some simple treatment. Psych patients still get medical problems (eg an infection). If you are the oncall psych doctor you are expected to be able to assess the patient, even if they need referring elsewhere. There is more to be lost than gained by eliminating foundation training. If the UK wants to reduce training time the balance of service provision vs training needs addressing. At 80% Less than full time (38 hours/week, having 1 week day off a week for childcare) I had ~6 training days/month, the rest were oncalls and rest days from oncalls.
@@btd836 Are AA's performing spinal anaesthetics? There is absolutely no way on this earth I am having someone with a 2 year course behind them messing with mine.
If Labour were an effective Opposition in the past few years, this would have been challenged. Think carefully, anyone who expects Labour to overturn this, I sincerely hope you are not disappointed
@@maryhall3722 oh FFS the Tories had an 80 seat majority and suddenly you ate saying it's labours fault. Oh yeah they illegally proroged parliament they forced The worst possible EU separation deal. Do youtr need mental help because from what you've just said you need it
@@markbriten6999 that is not what I said. There is no difference between them. Anyone expecting a change for the better has not been paying attention. I have replied to you without being rude. Perhaps you wanted an angry response. Apologies for disappointing you
@@caroltodd6691 Im sorry i dont follow your comment. Streeting has showen suport for this practice, GMB have a couple of clips of it. Iv only voted Lab
I’m an Advanced Nurse Practitioner besides my formal education to Masters level I have 30 years of clinical experience. I’m a little annoyed that someone with far less experience is allowed to practice autonomously at this level. Having said that, I feel sorry for the PAs who are hard working and put themselves at great risk. You could drive down costs by setting up more nurse led services???
So you've had the opportunity to train for 30 years but the physician associates with 20 plus years and also a Masters degree holder and trained to the MEDICAL MODEL and NOT the NURSING model you feel annoyed that they have far less experience than you and practice "autonomously" (even though physician associates as you know are dependent practitioners but you're clearly choosing to spread false information)? So if you're that annoyed, how annoyed are you that despite your 30 years and Masters level as an ANP, that an F1 doctor in their first year right after medical school still has more autonomy than your 30 plus years Nurse/ANP experience? What a seriously baffling comment to make as an ANP!!!
@@peterdollins3610 and why do you think they haven’t been regulated or limited? It’s not a mistake.. it’s intentional to revalue medical professionals and the NHS. Make it a second tier service with private meaning doctor and nhs meaning PAs
I rarely go to my GPs now because I have very little confidence in them and the service they provide, this at a time when I am having more and more age related chronic health issues. I have rarely seen a qualified GP in the last 5 years and the advice have have received from the people I have seen has been questionable or poor
My partner had his blood thinner tablet changed simply for money reasons. Afterwards he started having serious nose bleeds! When finally mentioned it to his usual doctor who said WELL ITS A KNOWN RISK/SIDE EFFECT OF THAT TABLET‼️and was put back on the old one! I believe the change was originally made by one of these physician associates! Could have been CATASTROPHIC ‼️
That the work of PAs is not clearly defined is criminally irresponsible. Of course the situation is muddied by doctors protecting their jobs and health authorities trying to save money, but non of this can justify the irresponsible action of exposing the public to danger through the negligence of the BMA. PAs have an important role, but that must be clearly defined, including legal responsibilities of all parties involved.
@@greattobeadub showing yourself up there a bit! it probably is - there are many, many doctors and scientists who are forced to flee areas that countries have invaded and caused war - and are willing and desperate to work. I, myself, know of a number in that situation and have been able to put them in touch with the relevant groups to do so. So perhaps you should stop trying to make cheap points on things you don't comprehend!
5gps walked out on patients in derby in one practice leaving patience vulnerable. Disgusting. Id be better off asking net doctor for answers to my being ill. Pharmacist has better answers these days. I got given antidepressants for the menopause and then told if I wanted meds for the menopause I should look on net doctor for pros and cons because he didn't have the time to talk. I refused to leave until I got treated properly. Patience have rights, stand up and let them know it.
Does this mean we need to ask the person treating us what their qualifications are? I don't go to see a GP unless I'm really poorly, and need a doctor. I don't want someone not qualified then.
Sadly, this is not about “money”. It’s about capital - the profitable ownership of assets, contracts, rents, debt or services. Thus, policies through decades have left this ownership in non-public entities - making the government, council, welfare-system economically dysfunctional in an otherwise capitalist reality. One can only invest towards ownership, or indirectly at a loss for public good. Paying invoices is _not_ investment - that’s just laborious poverty, making someone / something _else_ wealthy…
We have 2 PAs at the GP Practice I work at. Both have extensive medical experience prior to having done the PA course. They have constant Senior GP support if needed and are never left to act unsupervised, just like our physios, nurse practitioners, paramedics, and junior doctors. Every non-medical member of staff is on an educational pathway and every one has an area of speciality - ask any of our seniors if they'd rather see a concerning skin lesion or let our paramedic see it (he's done more recognised courses than most Drs), or would they rather do and interpret Spirometry or let one of the PAs do it (he's done multiple respiratory courses). And how many Drs would ask a different PA for advice on hard to control diabetes? Maybe our practice is a one-off? But I doubt it. If you ever want to come see what our PAs are up to rather than listen to the noise you'd be welcome.
Yes in your practice I'm sure it works. However how many have PAs instead of doctors. It's what some schools do, have teaching assistants instead of teachers. By the way legally a teacher is in😂 loco parentis a teaching assistant isn't so your kids are not necessarily safe
And, of course, the medical profession will be quick to close ranks and cover up if any of these non-doctors cause harm due to lack of knowledge or competence...
Nah they throw them to the wolves to make sure they're safe. However given the amount of training you need to be a doctor, let alone a GP I wouldn't blame them. Why should they take the blame. FFS to be a pharmacist you need a degree (three years) and experience before doing any sort of diagnosis. Also from my own experience the pharmacist, as professional will ALWAYS say no you need your doctor
When you see a PA they NEVER introduce themselves! (my experience!) I have a 30yr career in the NHS & challenged PA diagnosis & prescribing! Insisted my case went to an actually qualified GP! Yup, I was correct! PA still in position, yet I proved her wrong!
Address the UNDERLYING ISSUE. GP principles raking in huge profits by not employing salaried Doctors, and using PAs instead. GPs ALL need to be directly employed by the NHS and not acting as subcontracted businessmen/women.
Yoy have to read between the lines here. Under the government ARRS scheme, the NHS will reimburse local "GP practices" for the total cost of each PA hired. Money for each practice is given with the proviso that is can not be used to fund new or additional GPs. This is probably why there is approximately 8,000 GPs currently out of work. So, fast forward a couple of years and you will have privately owned GP practices recruiting more PAs, while letting GPs go. Eventually, this will result in GP practices being staffed entirely by PAs and more GPs on the dole. How clever is that?
A friend had three diagnoses and two mri scans over a period of six months. All the diagnoses failed to identify the issue or to provide any care plan!
not sure we are getting a very balance argument here. There is clearly a need and also scope for change within the NHS, which includes what roles staff play.
And its time that local councils are given enough money to be able to run their own childrens homes. Never ever should the care of our most needy and vulnerable children be put into the hands of companies who just make obscene profits from their suffering. It will probably save money as well.
Shouldn't the Tories be in court over this!
You would think so
Indeed they should, it’s a disgrace.
For this and so many other things.
Try Wales where Labour have been in charge of Health care and outcomes are much worse than in England.
@@MrPeteypoo if they have acted in the same criminal way then yes they should too.......I'm afraid living in the England though and watching the Tories break numerous rules , laws and moral codes for over a decade means they are the ones of the front of my mind
Haven't the Tories done a good job with other people's health. Outrageous and criminal.
The Moctor will see you now. If you want to see a doctor, you'll have to go private soon,
Tories need Jail time and banned from public life 🤬
Didn’t notice the ‘opposition’ raising this as an issue. Were they not there, or did they not see it as a problem?
This position was introduced in 2003 can anyone tell me who was in government then? Oh yes Labour.
@@maverick5039 Are you calling for jail time over the introduction of this position, if so it was introduced by Labour in 2003.🤣
please make tories pay for 14 years of ignoring human needs.
And of course, the Welsh Labour Party because the NHS is devolved in Wales, and they spend even less per capita than in England?
Thank you everyone for voting to get the TORI£S OUT !!
Absolutely outrageous that this have been allowed. It is just SHOCKING!!!
Not allowed, but CONDONED.
Tories see sickness and injury as money-making opportunities. Yuk.
That Is What It Is
@@bexhill8777 No, no it is not.
It's exactly as Nick Abbot says,
"What would Donald Trump do?"
Whatever action Trump advises, or states must / should go ahead, the Tories follow 'to the letter', and claim Trump's "ideas" as their own.
They see everything through the lens of making money, for themselves.
@@jonathanwetherell3609 What disturbs me is that many have adopted that view even to the destruction of things they benefit from.
Hold on why are they alluding that this is a Labour deal when the Tories are the ones that introduced it and reinforced it??? Thank the TORIES for this practice and just another thing for Labour to clean up and be blamed for.
It's a question of "opposition" for the last 14 years, or as we have seen silence being a form of agreement.
I think the point is making sure the Labour government will fix this, now that they are in office. Given the scarcity of doctors they will be tempted to just get along with the existing Tory policy.
@@lat1419 Corbyn had his chance and, in modern parlance, he blew it.
Now we have grown-ups in charge, things can only get better.
It's sad, anti government rhetoric.
If you don't fix all the problems on day 1, you're a weak party.
@@lat1419The opposition had NO voice within last VILE Government, Let ALONE any Power....
Further devaluation of our country.
I believe there are around 6,000 doctors out of work. Give them their jobs back and this could help bring down long waiting times.
The same with nurses. 🥺🙏🏻🕊
Spot on
That hurts healthcare trusts' profits.
@@dougaltolan3017 They're not run for profit.
What are they out of work for? Refusing a medical intervention?
An evil legacy of the Conservatives.
I am a pharmacist and say no to these associates and pharmacists that think they are Drs .Its really bad as mistakes will and have been made.I have seen the errors myself.Its not safe.
It's extremely concerning that you as a pharmacist have such a terrible grasp on basic grammar and punctuation.
I think you're not who you say you are.
@andrewgoodbody2121 I see hospital pharmacists now walking round with stethoscopes around their necks. What the hell is going on?
Very little is said about the 600,000 medical staff leaving UK to get better pay and conditions in Australia, Canada, USA. NZ etc. This needs stopping, Simple. It's a 10-fold increase on what it has been.
@@joylloyd6636 I’ve worked 15 years in nhs, paid my student loans, paid my taxes.. how do you suggest we stop me moving for a better life (pay and conditions)?
I’m guessing you don’t want to increase tax, but want more for your money? How?
Stopping how exactly? Pay them a decent wage like they would get elsewhere?
😡S tarmer wants to fix this and give public servants decent pay. The Tories spaffed huge amounts of money up the wall during covid and Trusses mistakes cos us £30 billion. The Tories should pay!
@@clarecollins2547 yes they should. But I can't see Starmer doing much about public sector wages any time soon
I was a first responder and I would never give my health in other hands than a full educated medical doctor….even thinking about a half educated diagnosting me is crazy…
Do you need a top level surgeon to diagnose a stubbed toe?
Why should you waste thier time on a minor hurt?
Triage!!!
I'm a bit alarmed that a first responder dosent know this, especially since you practiced exactly what you decry.
@@dougaltolan3017 Stubbed toes can be dangerous, Australian Alex Braes died from an infected toe nail.
@@dougaltolan3017Stubbed Toes rarely see a G.P.....As a trained Nurse from 1970's, I worked as Rehabilitation 'Tech' for 10 years, attached to Occupational Therapists And Physiotherapists.....We were 'Associates ' But our Role was to Support and perform Additional tasks under the Guidance of the Qualified Therapist.....We only worked with patients AFTER the provisional Assessment with a Therapist .....WE did NOT perform the Actual diagnosis.....But when Tories came into power, They were Trying to push Us further into the Therapist territory.....All to save money....
@@dougaltolan3017 you know nothing….a „bachelor“ should do that?….even real doctors have problems with diagnostics …wishful thinking don‘t save lives…and top level surgeons never do triage that‘s the job of emergency doctors…they are just waiting in the hospital to do the surgery and to take care about the patients afterwards….
Even as a first responder, I doubt you'd pick and choose who has the best knowledge to help you in a critical condition. You should know that it's an entire MDT that come around and should know that it's the consultant that calls the shots but the consultant has their MDT that include physician associates around patients always. Like seriously did you not know that.
😮My daughter in law quit as a junior doctor in a GP practice because she was tired of being asked to sign off diagnosis and treatment plans prepared by physician associated with no patient exam of her own.
Imagine having a waiting list of 7+ million and yet doctors are out of work.
Absolutely ridiculous!
It takes more than doctors, all the ancilliary workers are needed .
@@priscillaroberts7945 You're absolutely right! Doctors alone can't do medicine, it takes a whole MDT which Physician associates and other health professionals. The longer the waiting list, the more reason to have more MDT to help
@@ThePushUKLifestyle second rate healrhcare is not the answer. Fully trained doctors are leaving the uk for better conditions as well as pay.
@@priscillaroberts7945 So are more foreign doctors coming in and replacing the ones leaving. They too are coming from far less conditions and appreciate the conditions of the NHS that they've never worked for, so they complain less.
@@ThePushUKLifestyle doctors are being offered a decent pay agreement at last so we may turn a corner and keep what we have as well as attract some to come back .
One of the biggest problems is that Patients feel too intimdated to complain
Not if they all took to the streets together. Instead people kept Streeting in. The man is a snake and he has been bought long before the election.
Evidence?
@@californiadreamin8423 Explain your question and you may receive an answer
Not just intimidated, sick too.
For time immemorial (for me at least) it is forbidden for a patient to tell a doctor what's wrong.
For a patient to recognise and decide the difference between medical practitioners is a symptom of this.
How do you, as a patient, know what level of healthcare you need?
The PA role should be stopped altogether, it’s cut-price medicine which puts patients lives at risk. The original rationale for the PA (Physician’s Assistant or Associate) came from the USA and was partly borne out of combat medics returning from Vietnam but having no jobs to turn to in the civilian sector and partly because they could be “trained up” to carry out some roles that doctors traditionally did. In the USA, unlike the UK, there’s a strict scope of practice and it’s also driven by the for-profit healthcare system.
Do you really think that Drs aren't also "trained up"? Or do you think that by going to medical school for a total of 3 years, 4 years, 5 or 6 years to become Drs mean that Drs are safe to practice without supervision? Even Drs are under supervision themselves until they become consultants and are in training throughout so why do you think that physician associates after PA school are not "trained up" in their role despite also being under the supervision of consultants just like junior Drs.
By the way, the scope of practice for physician associates in the UK have been in existence since day one of their introduction to the UK over 20 years ago so if anyone spreading this false info cared to do some research, they'll easily find it.
It's baffling to say the least that a profession that has been in existence for over 2 decades all of a sudden is unsafe for patients because the GMC, the same body that regulates doctors have decided to regulate physician associates and some doctors feel threatened about this when they really should not as they're THE Drs.
@@ThePushUKLifestyle and there we have it. I’m keen to know which medical school trains doctors over a 3 year period? If you’re referring to students from St Andrews then the agreement is they do 3 years at St Andrews and a further 3 years at a medical school within the UK, thus they’re actually doing 6 years in total. 4 year programmes are for post graduates in an approved 4 year pathways e.g. Nottingham. The standard is usually 5 years and if you intercalate whilst you’re at medical school then it’s 6 years. The PA programme is simply cut price medicine. The reported base salary range is in excess of £40,000 with minimal night cover or weekends and evenings (if any), yet they can’t prescribe medication nor request radiological imaging, but they’ll ask a junior doctor to do so on their behalf. The inception of the role was poorly planned in the UK. Yes doctors are trained up over an extended period of time and they don’t stop even after graduating (entering higher speciality training). Sure, PA’s are post-grads but there already is a problem for doctors in training to get valid hands on training, why should they make way for a role that’s poorly defined and poorly implemented. So exactly why should the tax payer pay for someone to do a medical assessment yet that person can’t even prescribe or request investigations? Where exactly is the cost savings? There blatantly isn’t. Do doctors make mistakes? Yes they do, but there’s a chain of accountability. Tell me which body do PA’s answer too? The NMC? The GMC? It’s not about the person it’s about a role that’s been thrust into the NHS that wasn’t needed in the first place!
@@willienelsongonzalez4609 Well, the McMaster university in Canada trains doctors in just 3 years and there you have it.
You can't have a problem with PAs not working nights because no one said that they're doctors. It's doctors that do those shifts. Why are you forcing PAs into the doctor box of needing to prescribe and order investigations when THEY ARE NOT DOCTORS?
PAs are masters degree holders and of course their pay should reflect this. Doctors in their own training as they climb up their training ladder, have their pay also reflecting this.
A nurse of 30 years in the NHS, I'm pretty sure may be on a higher pay than a day one F1 doctor and the nurse would still take instructions from that F1 doc, a nurse of 30 years experience would also ask an F1 Doc to prescribe pain meds for a patient despite them having more experience than the F1 doc so your point really is?
You didn't need to spell out the training for each years of medical school as I mentioned above because I already know that hence I spelt them out the way I did.
Have you really done your research? The Faculty of Physician Associates have been the body for PAs since their introduction over 2 decades ago and soon to be the GMC.
By the way, every member of the MDT has every right to train in their role including physician associates, healthcare assistance, non-medical staff. EVERY SINGLE one of them and not just doctors alone. They should make way for ALL because EVERYONE needs to be just as good. It's patients' lives we're talking about here and doctors CANNOT be the only members of an MDT. It's called an MDT for a reason.
Oh and just so you know, the tax payer pays for doctors and not PAs to train. PAs usually fund their own training. Again, some research would help.
They are doing the same thing with Psychologists.
How so?
‘CBT Practitioners’ who have only done a tiny training course instead of registered mental health nurses and registered clinical psychologists.
@emmabrooker166 Ah okay. Thanks for explaining
@emmabrooker166 Can I just ask... To become a CBT Practitioner, doesn't the person already need to have experience working as a mental health professional such as a counsellor or a mental health nurse before becoming a CBT Practitioner?
@@lukaszwason5031Clinical Assistant Psychologists, they are not regulated by the HCPC and they are not practitioner Psychologists. But because they have the words clinical and psychologist people tend to assume that they are the same as a Clinical Psychologist.
Great content as always Peter. Thank you.
When Tory MPs go to the Doctor they make sure they see an expensive consultant - A qualified Doctor for them and a "Physician" for the rest of us!
This is exactly wherein the problem lies. The terminology is confusing and can mislead patients. Physicians are doctors. Physician Associates however, are not.
Other Way Round.. Dont See A Doctor.. "To Doctor" Is a crime At Law
enough to make you want to go private isnt it.
im on usa private..top level. they pay out the same as the nhs (for whats needed) and it only costs us 15% of wages.
my spine surgery i had to pay 5k up front out of 10k total costs. kids epilepsy meds went fron $3pm to $400pm because the insurers found a way to move to a more proffitable supplier (screw the patients, let them have seizures if they wont pay)
you see the likes of rishi dont use insurance companies. they just pay outright because they can. the good doctors. the medical insurance companies are a scam.
a very proffitable one, and that makes us very saleable to the market.
it takes ten years to be gp
Depends on the medical school you go to though. The McMaster university in Canada medical school is 3 years then if you came back to do F1/2 for 2 years and GP training for 3 years that would make 8 years.
You either see a qualified doctor or you don’t…simple!
Its a de-skilling of a very skillful role with deadly results of errors.
See! Many of us say it is many of the senior NHS management that need sacking -with no termination packages or pensions. Then use this money as extra cash into the NHS and employ people who actually work and not spend their time organising 'Jolley's #' Why does it take a 'Sir' or a pal to run the NHS.
We the people can state to pratices and hospital receptions that we DON'T wantt to be seen by a PA and most certainly we won't have an anesthetic administed by an Associate Anesthesiologist. These PAs and AAs are used throughout the NHS, I would never allow an AA administer any drug to me, anesthesiologists are fully trained doctors who have also trained in the specialty of pain control and anesthetics. Say no to the practice
Lol! While you're at it, don't forget to include all other non-doctor healthcare professionals who also make up an MDT just like physician associates do. Do you really think that doctors do not need an MDT around them? Lol
Yet another tory failure to add to the very long list
Will Streeting do anything about physician associates? No ! Labour has never spoken about the over 100k vacancies that are unfilled in the NHS, they do however speak about private sector involvement, they have shown no support for striking NHS workers and they like the Tories will not efficiently fund the NHS, which is not surprising when Streeting himself has taken over 193k from people with links to private health care. The NHS needs fixing and it needs the staff to put it back together not politicians who want to sell it off
My mum was in hospital last year. Nurse said to a colleague I'm leaving the NHS I don't want to but they shifts don't work for me and the pay is too low. Makes you want to weep
Love from Downunder. Thank you for all your medical staff..😮
The PA role is a set one which is not ever meant to be a "doctor" - and they are a great benefit, but only if used correctly.
They could actually help resolve the waiting list and general practice.
The BMA are perfectly correct and Labour should take note of them and resolve the issues outlined in it.
Physician Associates are no medical doctors at all. I would not want to be “treated” by them, imagine having to have a discussion about the qualifications of said associates when they suggest diagnosis/ medication or treatment. I would not trust them at all. Unacceptable
How many times have you asked the doctors who treat you about their qualifications? I think you'll be more so worried about your condition than their qualifications when they're working with their consultants as part of an MDT.
doctor's surgeries and dentist's surgeries have long become businesses where profits are being skimmed by owners and corporates. greed and care just don't go well together, t's not too difficult to see.
@@jbeeuk2007 there’s fuck all profit in Gp, maybe as a dentist with private work, but primary care is vastly undervalued and unfunded.
Similar problems exist in USA. And has to be addressed
"Safe and effective"🐂💩
I couldn’t agree more. My Doctors’ surgery has spiralled downward into an abortion of healthcare.
The last time I went to the Drs I came out with a perm, I don’t believe she was a Dr.
Medical associates are unregistered and therefore not accountable and not to be confused with Advanced clinical practitioners who are registered practitioners such as nurses, paramedics and pharmacists who do a three year masters degree qualification on top of their initial three year qualification at degree level.
I have direct experience of this. In cardiology in my part of Wales the only option is to see a PA. I had an echo requested by my GP, and was diagnosed with heart failure and less than 12 months to live. I asked to see a cardiologist and was told it was 14 months wait. I had to go private to get the needed scans and tests done and to speak to a qualified cardiologist. They identified other problems that meant I needed immediate surgery, but that was available only privately (£20k), as I would heed to wait 14 months for an NHS appt, or I could risk having a major heart attack, and if I survived I would have the surgery. When I returned to the PA and told her that the prescribed drugs were causing a worsening of diabetes - previously well controlled , and a known problem needing skilled care - I was told she was only there for cardiac problems not diabetes. My GP was horrified, and uncontrolled diabetes is a known cardiac risk! So p!ss poor "care" causing more problems, then. Obviously I'm too old for NHS and too poor for privare poor for private
Still not DOCTORS.
See this is the trouble nurses now don't want to be proper nurses and actually physically look after them at the bedside. It's the problem because they do a degree and not learning on the job like when nurses did a block of in the nursing school and then weeks on the wards ,actually learning . I know one degree nurse came onto the ward and told me she could transfer her degree to WORK IN A BANK. That to me shows NO DEDICATION. One Dr complained that a " nurse " wanted to do surgery. I'm sorry, but if they feel too good to be a proper nurse, then they should go to university to be a QUALIFIED doctor.
It makes my blood boil . I am a retired trained nurse and midwife. It is unbelievable what has been encouraged by the government.
@@maureensummers8212 what exactly do you consider a proper nurse to be?
I spoke on this at a husting on BBC Northampton during the election campaign - it has to stop!
Whoever is at fault this situation mustnt be allowed to continue. Not forever, we need more doctors.
And happening at an operating theatre near you - "associate anaesthetists" - God help us. I've made it quite clear to my husband that if I'm out of it and need an emergency operation, that he can only give consent on my behalf if it's a qualified doctor doing the anaesthetic. If it's not, then he's under instructions to kick up merry hell until there is one. ALWAYS ask the job status of any medical "professional" that you encounter in the NHS as I've noticed a remarkable reticence by NHS staff to disclose their occupations to patients, especially those not wearing a lanyard which makes it clear eg consultant, doctor, nurse
Utter madness.
Doctors need to stop the jabs before anything else .
🙄😂
It’s not just the Tories they are all in it together
Two wings, same bird, controlled by WEFminster. Skulduggery and swampmanship. Indictments needed. and a Judge with a black cloth on his head.
Bring on the Faith healers !
Yes and the herbalists, chiropractors, and anyone who cares. Med beds coming and Quantum healing, but not until the crooks are run out of town.
I think it should be made very clear by secretaries when appointments are being made that you are going to see some sort of "Associate" Or a qualified GP.
So, it takes at least 3 years to train an RGN, but only 2 years to train a PA?
Yup, nurses are brilliant.
The two years of training occurs only after a successful three year science degree course, they aren’t allowed to train as P A’s otherwise …
God Bless
@@dougaltolan3017Nursing should never have gone to degree level.
@@piusx8317 ere!
Points at the other guy, 👆
👍
Peter. Keep highlighting this scandal - you’ve had great successes in other fields. It’s for all our sakes !!!!!
Nurse associates to me are nursing on the cheap.Its like bringing enrolled nurses back.
Exactly the same in the Police, all done on the cheap. Pay peanuts, get monkeys, twas ever thus.
I've had a few flying lessons.
I could pilot an Air Liner- NOT !!
People should be held to account.
How can this be allowed? It won't be long before lives are lost. This is a potential criminal risk taking! We must defend our GPs.
Lives have been lost. It’s all over social media and doctors have been silenced. Public don’t want expensive experts, they would rather have cheap access.
Well done for bringiing this up to the public
And they are paid more initially than fully trained medical students and I believe they aren’t able to write prescriptions….so is there really a benefit….and they used to be called Physician assistant….
I really urgently need to see someone to get my mole checked out, as it could be melanoma, and now I'm hearing this awful news!! Absolutely don't know what to do now!! 😮
And if you're using a telephone to talk to a "medical professional" how do you know if they're just not using a flowchart.
Jesus. Quacks in this day and age 😢
I guess this is no different to the introduction of going to your pharmacist for a medical diagnosis rather than trying to get an appointment at your GP who doesn’t see patients anymore as they are too busy doing paperwork.
Not true everywhere sent for CT scan. Specialist recommend change in medicatio got letter whilst on holiday so nothing was done. Text from doctors monday, sent in form offered telephone appointment, all I needed from Tuesday on. Had it today, mainly because I wasn't available, all sorted. What's wrong with that
Guild concerns..All for the safety and health of the public of course..?? ^_^
Unqualifiedly vaccinating people??
Unqualifiedly means what and who wasn't qualified to do the injections?
Seems the tories feel they did cause enough deaths with austerity and covid mismanagement and corruption. Underpaying and undervaluing doctor’s wasn’t enough for them either. They should be stripped of their stolen assets and put in prisons. The overcrowded understaffed ones they are also responsible for
It was far worse than mismanagement, they are just hoping if no one says anything that debacle will just go away. Andrew Bridgen, was sadly let down by his constituency, no doubt the worst offenders will be relieved to see him gone.
Big instigator should be done n all services paid by NHS, then and only then we will know how many doctor and qualified nurses are out of work because corrupt management. 😔🕊🙏🏻✝️
So while Doctors were on strike and members of the public were punching down now have to talk to a PA…
Oh dear.
I didn’t think that was too smart at the time.
Maybe if I'd have seen a GP instead of a PA my ongoing medical problem would have been diagnosed and solved earlier!
Who's bright idea was this fiasco then?. Yet more waste at a time when it's even more important to make sure resources are used wisely. No doubt no one will own up to this mess. Not to mention putting people at risk because they think they are being clever by trying to save money which no doubt it will cost probably more because of people sueing hospital trusts ect .
We love our PA in America ❤, They can diagnose prescribe medications order x rays and CT.. PA is a member of the healthcare team and play a vital role in America with out PA's, our health care system will be under tremendous pressure.
Very well said, hopefully the UK will come to appreciate their physician associates in the future as they get used to a new member of the MDT
Wes "Holding The Door Open For The Private Sector" Streeting should have been voted out on the fourth 🙄
Labour haven’t even said how they’re going to work with the private sector yet and you come out with this crap.
@@psiphon2808 you do know the private sector uses NHS doctors, and equipment. Not sure how leaning on the private sector is supposed to help, when it's got overworked doctors running in it, and leeching off NHS resources.
The government want to use private sector beds to increase the numbers that can be cared for. As said earlier, private sector staff are just rebadged NHS staff. I'd you are aware mist NHS services have been taken over by private companies already, even most staff are coming via agencies more than ever before. Agencies also private profit making companies.
@@DemonDethchase. The private sector has always used NHS Doctors and Consultants.
@@psiphon2808 nope - but we can see what they are doing in Wales AND their history with PFI hospitals that resulted in fewer medical staff being employed in both situations!
Yes this is absolutely scandalous, doctoring on the cheap, and I'm absolutely horrified at what I have just heard here!! Right now I'm particularly scared because this morning I discovered a mole on my arm which has definitely changed in texture and colour, and it looked like it had been bleeding too and was a bit itchy!! Also we get this news that GPs are going on strike, so I really don't know what the hell to do. This is causing me serious anxiety as I absolutely don't want to see a physician associate because of the risk of them misdiagnosing me. Many other patients with serious conditions will not seek help if they know they can't see a proper doctor, and this is really diabolical!! Definitely going to cost lives!!
I had an NHS Dentist that had no dental training.
I went for my next appointment and no longer a dental practice.
I should have gathered that something was wrong when he put his knee on my shoulder when pulling out a wisdom tooth.
Tories need to be held accountable for there crimes.
Nobody sponsored by a Health insurance company is fit to be Health Secretary.
Which company? And how much?
@@DellaWilliams-vo3ezBoth Starmer and Streeting have taken donations from a private healthcare fund.
The man Starmer just appointed is a private health care lobbyist.
Or are you choosing to be ignorant?
@@DellaWilliams-vo3ez In January 2022 and April 2023, Streeting accepted donations of £15,000 from hedge fund boss John Armitage for ‘staffing costs’ in his office. Armitage’s interests include a stake, reportedly worth in excess of $500 million, in US private health insurance giant UnitedHealth, America’s largest health insurer. This is not Streeting’s only link to private healthcare interests. Campaign group EveryDoctor also raised questions over donations from Peter Hearn, a majority shareholder in a recruitment agency which works with private healthcare companies, and his affiliated company MPM Connect Ltd. One of these donations exceeded £80,000, the group said, while another was almost £50,000.
@@basfinnis Any specific names? Or, is that a generic comment from a bot?
@@basfinnis let's not forget that Starmer handpicked Praful Nargund, a private health care boss who believes the privatisation of healthcare is “very, very important,” to stand against Jeremy Corbyn, in Islington North. But thankfully Jeremy sent Labour homeward, to think again.
I thought the PA always has to work with consultants? No? If they are being put in a situation that they are the solely responsible of doing diagnosis and prescribing, I thing it is the hospital faults not the government? tell me if I am wrong!
They are rota’d to cover medical wards in gaps instead of junior docs.
Well from here on it’ is for Labour to rectify 🤔. Unless they too wish to save money on ‘qualified Doctors’. It’s Labours call now .. let’s see what they actually do.
I call them Medical Orderlies. "They have had basic medical training" (Monty Python's Holy Grail).
Even if you wave a magic wand and get funded training contracts for doctors immediately, it'll take nearly a decade to build adequate staff numbers. Associates can train in 2. What do we do in the mean time?
There is a role for associates. But only because of p!ss poor NHS workforce management over the last 14 years. Train them, supervise them, establish safe remits of care and enforce regulatory oversight. Or enjoy another decade of staffing issues.
There is a role as triage specialists,, perhaps, but not in diagnosis. I say this from personal experience and that of friends. We are refusing to see PAs, so that's not helping take any load off the GPs.
@moiraruff3292 I think what needs to be unpicked is what is appropriate use of associates, from inappropriate use. Associates "acting up" beyond their remit (eg covering oncall duties) due to a lack of trained staff is not what they should be used for.
I also share your hesitation about associates with far less experience working in diagnostic roles. My wife is a GP and anecdotally the patient return rate is higher for associates/practice nurses than other GPs. 2 visits for 1 issue isn't saving time.
But, relying on examples where associates are incorrectly used as evidence the whole idea is flawed is disingenuous. There are plenty of technical roles that could be filled. I'm an anaesthetist and work with some great anaesthesia associates. They work within strict remits, don't prescribe (yet), and only anaesthetise patients alone who are straight forward and having uncomplicated surgery. Help is always very close by if rare issues come around. Due to the restricted practice they have (locally) become experts in regional anaesthetic blocks, which they do more of than consultants.
Don't get me wrong, dumbing down the workforce is a race to the bottom. But we are where we are. How long can medics bang the patient safety drum when there aren't any other staff? Some less trained staff following standard guidelines within set limits is a lesser of two evils. We've used this model for specialist nurses/GP nurses for years.
Train specialist doctors rather than training people in every discipline of medicine and it taking 10 years. Why does someone who knows they want to be a psychiatrist have to do a rotation in gynecology or dermatology, it has nothing to do with their job. Let them train for the specialism they want to do
@gillb9222 That will eliminate 2 years of foundation only. Beyond that everyone is within speciality training for the remaining 6-8 years. Those 2 years are needed so anyone can do a basic examination and start some simple treatment. Psych patients still get medical problems (eg an infection). If you are the oncall psych doctor you are expected to be able to assess the patient, even if they need referring elsewhere. There is more to be lost than gained by eliminating foundation training.
If the UK wants to reduce training time the balance of service provision vs training needs addressing. At 80% Less than full time (38 hours/week, having 1 week day off a week for childcare) I had ~6 training days/month, the rest were oncalls and rest days from oncalls.
@@btd836 Are AA's performing spinal anaesthetics? There is absolutely no way on this earth I am having someone with a 2 year course behind them messing with mine.
If Labour were an effective Opposition in the past few years, this would have been challenged. Think carefully, anyone who expects Labour to overturn this, I sincerely hope you are not disappointed
Don't be fucking stupid. The Tories had a large majority anything they wanted through went through . Even illegally proroging parliament
How, they were in a similiar position to what the tories are in now. Totally outnumbered .
@@maryhall3722 oh FFS the Tories had an 80 seat majority and suddenly you ate saying it's labours fault. Oh yeah they illegally proroged parliament they forced The worst possible EU separation deal. Do youtr need mental help because from what you've just said you need it
@@markbriten6999 that is not what I said. There is no difference between them. Anyone expecting a change for the better has not been paying attention.
I have replied to you without being rude. Perhaps you wanted an angry response. Apologies for disappointing you
Aye, but pre GE Wez was a fan of this practice, so i wouldnt hold my breath
get your Facts right know he was not or is that Because you voted Boris the Party 27 times man
@@caroltodd6691 Im sorry i dont follow your comment. Streeting has showen suport for this practice, GMB have a couple of clips of it. Iv only voted Lab
@@Mightypi BANG ON Sorry
I’m an Advanced Nurse Practitioner besides my formal education to Masters level I have 30 years of clinical experience. I’m a little annoyed that someone with far less experience is allowed to practice autonomously at this level.
Having said that, I feel sorry for the PAs who are hard working and put themselves at great risk.
You could drive down costs by setting up more nurse led services???
No thanks! I don't want to see a nurse
@@piusx8317 okay.
So you've had the opportunity to train for 30 years but the physician associates with 20 plus years and also a Masters degree holder and trained to the MEDICAL MODEL and NOT the NURSING model you feel annoyed that they have far less experience than you and practice "autonomously" (even though physician associates as you know are dependent practitioners but you're clearly choosing to spread false information)?
So if you're that annoyed, how annoyed are you that despite your 30 years and Masters level as an ANP, that an F1 doctor in their first year right after medical school still has more autonomy than your 30 plus years Nurse/ANP experience? What a seriously baffling comment to make as an ANP!!!
@@ThePushUKLifestyle Thank you.
@@nigelmorris3014 You're very welcome as every point needs to be highlighted.
IF these helpers are well regulated and limited I see no problem. But the confusions you point out must be recognised and cured.
@@peterdollins3610 and why do you think they haven’t been regulated or limited? It’s not a mistake.. it’s intentional to revalue medical professionals and the NHS. Make it a second tier service with private meaning doctor and nhs meaning PAs
I rarely go to my GPs now because I have very little confidence in them and the service they provide, this at a time when I am having more and more age related chronic health issues. I have rarely seen a qualified GP in the last 5 years and the advice have have received from the people I have seen has been questionable or poor
This is really shocking another new low. Thanks for making this.
My partner had his blood thinner tablet changed simply for money reasons. Afterwards he started having serious nose bleeds! When finally mentioned it to his usual doctor who said WELL ITS A KNOWN RISK/SIDE EFFECT OF THAT TABLET‼️and was put back on the old one! I believe the change was originally made by one of these physician associates! Could have been CATASTROPHIC ‼️
That the work of PAs is not clearly defined is criminally irresponsible. Of course the situation is muddied by doctors protecting their jobs and health authorities trying to save money, but non of this can justify the irresponsible action of exposing the public to danger through the negligence of the BMA. PAs have an important role, but that must be clearly defined, including legal responsibilities of all parties involved.
We would be very happy if some of these unwanted doctors would move to Ireland, where they would be very welcome.
Aye - but then they'd move to Australia like most of the Irish doctors because the weather is too sh1te!
Check out tent city in Dublin, it's full doctors and scientists.
@@pitbing hardly
@@greattobeadub showing yourself up there a bit!
it probably is - there are many, many doctors and scientists who are forced to flee areas that countries have invaded and caused war - and are willing and desperate to work.
I, myself, know of a number in that situation and have been able to put them in touch with the relevant groups to do so.
So perhaps you should stop trying to make cheap points on things you don't comprehend!
@@rsh793 evidence please
5gps walked out on patients in derby in one practice leaving patience vulnerable. Disgusting. Id be better off asking net doctor for answers to my being ill. Pharmacist has better answers these days. I got given antidepressants for the menopause and then told if I wanted meds for the menopause I should look on net doctor for pros and cons because he didn't have the time to talk. I refused to leave until I got treated properly. Patience have rights, stand up and let them know it.
You can’t spell patients? Really?
My GP employs chemist, very lucky to see one . I have serious heart issues
40 years ago, my 4 A-levels took 2 years. Just saying.
Does this mean we need to ask the person treating us what their qualifications are? I don't go to see a GP unless I'm really poorly, and need a doctor. I don't want someone not qualified then.
Ed Balls looks like he's bombed off his nads
Sadly, this is not about “money”. It’s about capital - the profitable ownership of assets, contracts, rents, debt or services.
Thus, policies through decades have left this ownership in non-public entities - making the government, council, welfare-system economically dysfunctional in an otherwise capitalist reality.
One can only invest towards ownership, or indirectly at a loss for public good. Paying invoices is _not_ investment - that’s just laborious poverty, making someone / something _else_ wealthy…
We have 2 PAs at the GP Practice I work at. Both have extensive medical experience prior to having done the PA course. They have constant Senior GP support if needed and are never left to act unsupervised, just like our physios, nurse practitioners, paramedics, and junior doctors. Every non-medical member of staff is on an educational pathway and every one has an area of speciality - ask any of our seniors if they'd rather see a concerning skin lesion or let our paramedic see it (he's done more recognised courses than most Drs), or would they rather do and interpret Spirometry or let one of the PAs do it (he's done multiple respiratory courses). And how many Drs would ask a different PA for advice on hard to control diabetes?
Maybe our practice is a one-off? But I doubt it. If you ever want to come see what our PAs are up to rather than listen to the noise you'd be welcome.
Yes in your practice I'm sure it works. However how many have PAs instead of doctors. It's what some schools do, have teaching assistants instead of teachers. By the way legally a teacher is in😂 loco parentis a teaching assistant isn't so your kids are not necessarily safe
WHO needs doctor's or nurses when you have Policy Mandates and Artificial Intelligence dictating and algorithming ewes?!
Like an HGV training course that doesn't require being able to reverse.
Only more critical.
And, of course, the medical profession will be quick to close ranks and cover up if any of these non-doctors cause harm due to lack of knowledge or competence...
Nah they throw them to the wolves to make sure they're safe. However given the amount of training you need to be a doctor, let alone a GP I wouldn't blame them. Why should they take the blame. FFS to be a pharmacist you need a degree (three years) and experience before doing any sort of diagnosis. Also from my own experience the pharmacist, as professional will ALWAYS say no you need your doctor
When you see a PA they NEVER introduce themselves! (my experience!) I have a 30yr career in the NHS & challenged PA diagnosis & prescribing! Insisted my case went to an actually qualified GP! Yup, I was correct! PA still in position, yet I proved her wrong!
Let's be honest - it's so hard to get any medical treatment these days that most of us just search for help and advice online!
Address the UNDERLYING ISSUE. GP principles raking in huge profits by not employing salaried Doctors, and using PAs instead. GPs ALL need to be directly employed by the NHS and not acting as subcontracted businessmen/women.
Well my last job was actually an acupuncturist; but it didn't last that long; I never realised I had to have training first😊
Yoy have to read between the lines here. Under the government ARRS scheme, the NHS will reimburse local "GP practices" for the total cost of each PA hired. Money for each practice is given with the proviso that is can not be used to fund new or additional GPs. This is probably why there is approximately 8,000 GPs currently out of work. So, fast forward a couple of years and you will have privately owned GP practices recruiting more PAs, while letting GPs go. Eventually, this will result in GP practices being staffed entirely by PAs and more GPs on the dole. How clever is that?
A friend had three diagnoses and two mri scans over a period of six months. All the diagnoses failed to identify the issue or to provide any care plan!
not sure we are getting a very balance argument here. There is clearly a need and also scope for change within the NHS, which includes what roles staff play.
And its time that local councils are given enough money to be able to run their own childrens homes. Never ever should the care of our most needy and vulnerable children be put into the hands of companies who just make obscene profits from their suffering. It will probably save money as well.
I'm surprised they didn't allow Sangomas to practice.