Why Did G.K. Chesterton Choose Catholicism and Not Eastern Orthodoxy? - Dale Ahlquist
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2023
- G.K. Chesterton's Thoughts on Eastern Orthodoxy.
This is a clip from my full interview with Dale Ahlquist - Here is the link to the full interview: • The President of The G...
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Thank you for watching!
I was baptized under roman catholicism.
Comes teenage years where the education system's endoctrination and today's science's materialist worldview made me something like a Jungian gnostic meddling with religious syncretism.
A few years ago, somewhere in my 30s, as a consequence of sickness (I like to think this is due to my wrestling with God and His calling me back to Him), I started doing volunteer work, doing dishes in my community's catholic church's soup kitchen, as well as helping out protestants with a food bank organism. I ended up joining the protestant church for a couple of months, I even got baptized again under protestantism (although I did it only because I thought it would be edifying to the members and a way to refresh their spirit).
Now, I've found out about orthodoxy some months ago, realizing my beliefs and faith are closer to theirs (than they are to catholics and protestants), regarding prayers, icons, liturgy, papacy, reverance to saints and the Mother of God Mary. The thing is, like Mr. Ahlquist mentionned, the nationality aspect makes one think it is not the One True Church, as they pridefully proclain. As a matter of fact, there are no orthodox church in a 200 miles radius from where I live so I am back to attending a catholic church.
I long for a home!
@William Braddell Yet your church is not the center of your community. What I meant by nationality is confusing because I did not mean it in the sense of bound to a nation. Rather, what I meant is the feeling that it is not in communion with the land itself. It feels disconnected, forced. It feels private, niched, uninviting. It is hard to explain.
Luke 17:33
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
The Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, they all claim they are the One True Church. They all pretend they are alive while they really are dead branches of the One True tree. They all hold on to their respective truth, leaving their hands occupied and unable to grasp the Truth.
Who is confused?
@William Braddell yeah, I’m fairly confident that a major percentage of these people carrying on about the ethnic thing are inventing it. That being said, my mom comes from an Irish Catholic Family and she married a German Catholic man and I have never seen anything close to the ethnic struggles that exist in German,
/Irish Catholics between Greek and Russian Orthodox. People looking to justify their false beliefs will look for them where they will though.
I already mentionned I did not imply ethnicity when I said nationality. I tried to explain my thoughts better, but we're lost in sementics.
The Orthodox Church isn't the Tree, it's just a branch who's looking back and thinks it's the Tree. Just like Lot's wife, it is petrified, longing in nostalgia, unable to move, dead.
You guys clearly are not looking for friends but for enemies. Don't you see? I did not want to argue. I just ordered my feelings into words, as best as I could. If it sounds like a puzzle to you, then rejoice in the challenge instead of yelling at it.
That must be how they treated the prophets.
Ecclesiastes 1
@@AlexLGagnonagree with you. Catholic Church is flawed but it’s not prideful and cold like Orthodoxy churches 😢
@@AlexLGagnon i came here 1 year later so i'm not sure if you are gonna read this, but when inquiring into these 2 churches forget about the whole aesthetic thing (although the RC have beautiful aesthetics aswell), or how these churches are portrayed in the media, forget about all that because it's not relevant to the argument. focus on the 2 main topics they split over which is the Filioque, my own take is i think the Catholics dominate on the Filioque issue, they slam dunk the Orthodox on that one because every Church Father pretty much teaches it and the Bible does aswell. the papacy needs a bit more of a developed argument though that one is not an immediate slam dunk but i think the papal evidences out there favour the Latins aswell. Greetings from a St. Thomas Aquinas fan
Going to be a great interview. I plan to reread my Chesterton books soon.
Loving the clips!
Loving your comments! Thank you brother
This was a fun one. Here's the link to the full interview: czcams.com/video/gooNeZjviE4/video.html
God bless you
🕊
How does Judaism play into these questions?
I read all Father Brown ) my favourite derective stories book)
Father Brown is wonderful!
Obviously the full interview is not available yet. I have a lot of thoughts, having read a large portion of Chesterton’s published works and being an Orthodox Christian. The only places I have found him referencing the Eastern Church at all is in his book on Saint Thomas, the Resurrection of Rome, and the New Jerusalem. As far as I can see Chesterton was wildly ignorant about the Orthodox Church, which I find to be such an anomaly, given his vast general knowledge, but it seems evident to me that his historical view was heavily influenced by Belloc, and by earlier Catholic scholars, who basically treated the Orthodox Church as having fallen or ended with the fall of Constantinople. He refers to the Byzantine schismatics, treats the Orthodox attitude towards iconography as merely the influence of Islam, and in the new Jerusalem, while he notes the presence of Orthodox clergy and monks, he treats them as some kind of oddball Catholics and does not descend into his usual deep ruminations. It’s as if at a critical moment, his thinking stopped at a brick wall. There may be text by him that I missed, but I never saw deep respect for the Orthodox Church. Of course I understand that modern Catholics believe what they believe, and wouldn’t quarrel with Dale, but I have yet to see anyone prove to me that Chesterton really ever dealt with the Orthodox Church seriously Beyond a few passing remarks here and there. Again, I’m open to correction on that point. But I do know why we reject the ideas that Dale Alquist expresses here in this clip. Granted that I have not seen the full interview. But this is not the first time the issue has been raised.
Hi Rus,
I just read your comment and I must say that I find it tremendously fair and respectful. I honestly don't know how well-informed Chesterton's position on the Orthodox church was. The reason I asked Dale was because I myself struggled to find a clear point on it in his writings.
I agree with you in that, given his vast general knowledge, it would be a strange anomaly if he really was wildly ignorant of the Orthodox church. Although I do wonder how much information he really did have access to during his time (at least in that specific domain).
While the issue has been raised in the past, this was my first time speaking with Dale, and I believe he answered in good faith (he has certainly read more Chesterton than most of us), but I will definitely look into the topic more and also ask Dale about the texts where Chesterton speaks of Orthodoxy with respect (as Dale mentioned in the interview).
Thanks very much for your comment, and God bless.
Question: Why Did G.K. Chesterton Choose Catholicism and Not Eastern Orthodoxy?
Response:
From the National Catholic Register article 'G.K. Chesterton Became Catholic 100 Years Ago, Drawn in by Jerusalem and Our Lady' by K.V. Turley of March 8, 2022:
Yet, whatever happened during the Holy Land pilgrimage of 1920, and the subsequent journey back to England, it changed everything. On arrival in Brindisi [Italy], Sermarini [president of the Italian Chesterton Society] continues, the Chestertons [G.K. & his wife Frances] were unable to find a hotel room, and so retreated to a room in a private house. In the room they were given stood a statue of the Madonna. He feels it was there, “right here in Italy, right in front of this sea of ours, under the eyes of the Virgin Mary,” that the long conversion of G.K. Chesterton ended. “The Virgin Mary always played a great role in Chesterton’s life,” Sermarini concluded.
When, finally, in May 1927, a Catholic church was blessed and opened at Beaconsfield [England], the Chestertons contributed one notable addition to it, namely, a statue of Our Lady.
(Dale Ahlquist is also quoted in this article)
I have read elsewhere that homesickness for England was a factor, in that G.K. made a promise to Mary that if he and Frances could return safely there from their travels, he would become Catholic.
I think it's worth noting that the lack of evangelism and the ethnic heritage doesnt necessarily stem from being unwelcome of outsiders, its more like an accident of history. Many of the orthodox churches fell under islamic rule, with the sole church able to evangelize effectively being the russian orthodox church, which had much more interest in keeping with the interest of the czar than spreading to outside nations, instead spreading themselves throughout the russian kingdom and into some of the other eastern balkan nations of the time, despite a large chunk of them being under ottoman rule. This left the catholic church as the only real evangelizing church in Europe, coupled with their location and the spread of roman culture.
Thank you for the helpful explanation, Dakota!
Buddhism is so anti humanist it’s hilarious. At the same time, we can learn a lot from the eastern way of life. It’s by far my biggest love hate relationship haha
He most likely did not understand eastern Christianity enough because we were for so long under Islamic rule. The eastern church entered the dark ages and could not minister to the outside world.
It is the same problem with Martin Luther - he has a profound respect when hearing of the eastern church but does not have access to it to further himself.