Why the Netherlands Refuses to Get Stupid Rich
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
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FULL TRANSCRIPT + SOURCES:
docs.google.com/document/d/13...
MAIN SOURCES:
The Rise and Fall of the Dutch Groningen Gas Field (European Gas Hub):
www.europeangashub.com/the-ri...
Natural gas revenues almost 417 billion euros (CBS):
www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/22...
Nederland gaat voor het eerst in 60 jaar de winter in zonder Gronings gas (NOS):
nos.nl/collectie/13902/artike...
Support my channel on Patreon starting at $2 per month: patreon.com/HindsightYT
lazer op
Dat zijn geen Dollars., maar Euro's, die zijn ietsje duurder op de valutamarkt..
This area is known as an earthquake area. And companies like Shell & Exxon mobile should compensate stricken homeowners. Otherwise long jailtime, had it with these "companies",
get a job...
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
Something that wasn't mentioned, but in my opinion is very much relevant, is that these earthquakes happen at around ~3 kilometers below the surface. In comparison, most ''natural'' earthquakes in the shallow category occur at 10 kilometers deep. So while a magnitude of 3.6 may not seem that bad, the proximity to the surface means more and stronger vibrations carry to the surface resulting in more damages to buildings. And thats in a country that normally doesn't even get real earthquakes in the first place. So yea, from a outsider perspective it might seem weak, but theres a lot more to it than just the magnitude.
I never came across that information but it makes a lot of sense. That would’ve been great to include in the video. Thanks for sharing!
@@HindsightYT No problem! I can see how it's probably an obscure bit of information. I didnt mean it as criticism to your video by the way, but more as a response to some comments i've seen noting how a 3.6 magnitude isnt that strong. I loved your video, it was very insightful, just felt my comment could add another viewpoint 🙂
Fair point; didn’t think of this. I also thought this didn’t sound that bad but I’m from CA
I am Dutch, This area is known as an earthquake area. And companies like Shell & Exxon mobile should compensate stricken homeowners. Otherwise long jailtime, had it with these "companies",
@@HindsightYT Yep, typical earthquakes all over the world happen at 10s of km depth and attenuate to the 3rd power per distance travelled (like an expanding sphere). Here (yes I live on top of this gasfield in a rebuilt house) the force of the quakes attenuate like throwing a pebble in water, like a circle. So only to the power of 2 per distance travelled.
Also the top soil is clay, which doesn't absorb a lot of the energy.
This wave front then literally causes travelling ripples in the fields and thus houses will break in pieces when this wave hits them in the worst direction.
Just imagine your house like the wrapper of a match box. The front and back of the house do not add structural strength to the house, so if this wave hits your house from the worst possible direction, the walls in the front and back will just shatter and if strong enough the floors will collapse on top of eachother.
I have seen this happening with our houses in our street in the simulations. (and also the cracks in the floors and walls in which you put a pen through)
While knowing what those quakes might do to your house, we still had to live in those houses for over 3 years until we could move to the temporary houses while only 30 houses in our street would get demolished and rebuilt.
Had to live in those temporary houses for 28 months.
All-in-all the entire process took over 10 years.
The biggest problem imho is that the gas company/dutch government didn't just help the residences to fix their houses. Just hear what your saying yourself. BILLIONS of revenue. But this is where the greed unfortunately comes in. Now the result is that these fields will be closed off. The money gained from those things could have been used to do much good things.
The government should have always kept control of the resources and never let a company take it over. And use the money to compensate the residence there while at the same time doing lots of good things for the benefit of the entire country.
yeah i was also about to comment this aswell
Very well said!
You can't compensate fear..
the majority of the revenue DID go to the people. It went to their government.
@@yt.damian yes, however the homeowners were not compensated for damages. Oops.
I’m from Groningen, and I honestly felt kinda hurt how you sounded almost indifferent talking about the wellbeing of people here, and completely ignored the gaslighting of Groningers by the government and the NAM. Also you’re talking about the wellbeing in past tense as though this has all been resolved, far from it.
Since 1986 we have earthquakes, but the government kept saying that we were imagining things cause gas extraction cannot lead to earthquakes. In 1991 the KNMI concluded that the gas extraction did indeed lead to earthquakes. Nevertheless, the NAM only publically acknowledged that in 2012, and until then any claim was automatically refuted.
From 2012 onwards filing claims was possible, however the burden of proof was on the citizens instead of on the NAM, and the investigation of people’s houses was performed by the NAM instead of an independent party. The NAM had instructed its employees to not acknowledge any damage, otherwise they’d get in trouble (p.80 in postmes et al 2018). This wasn’t a one time occurrence, it was at every single step along the way. People weren’t just stressed about whether their house would collapse on top of them, but also having to juggle the 7th house inspection with their full-time job and still hearing that it was all just in their heads.
On top of all that, the earthquakes could’ve been easily prevented if the NAM would’ve injected nitrogen into the ground as they extracted the gas. This cost has been estimated to €6-10 billion, but was deemed to expensive by the NAM. Mind you, since 1969 the company has made €64.7 billion with a total cost of €27.8 billion. Half of the costs were made in the past ten years where the NAM had to pay back damage claims, which they could’ve also invested in the nitrogen injections.
All in all, it’s no surprise that the parlementaire enquete “Groningers boven gas” concluded that the inhabitants suffered disproportionately. Heck, the Norwegian petroleum museum cites the Netherlands as an example of how not to do it. If the government (and the NAM) would have been more reasonable towards the Groningers, I have no doubt we wouldn’t find it a problem to continue extracting the gas. But alas, that still is not the reality, so therefore I think it is for the better that we have stopped gas extraction.
The way you talked about the Groningers in this video resonated to me with the attitude of Dutch people outside of Groningen: a far from my bed show, and the people from Groningen should just suck it up so that the nation can profit from the gas earnings. I hope that your patreons can get these kinks out for you in future videos.
Thank you for telling us the rest of the story.
Dat laatste zeker niet. Heel Nederland staat achter jullie en vindt dat jullie gecompenseerd moeten worden. Schande dat de NAM of de overheid dat zo moeizaam doet.
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
@@hg2.So you wanna make a swamp out of it?
The fact he made the video shows he cares. "Kinda hurt" is a stupid respose.
The rest of the comment was good though.
I have a friend who lived through a couple earthquakes in that region where his parents eventually lost their house as it became too unstable to restore. It's absolutely criminal how our government has dealt with these people. Leaving them in lines in the middle of the winter to appeal for damages, refusing to give money to help them in the risk of giving money to a couple bad apples whose damage to their houses isn't directly earthquake related... These people should get a chunk of the profits so they can live a proper life without risking losing their houses. If our politicians refuse to provide them a good sum of money for compensation, I am very glad they closed the field off for now completely. I don't care about the profits, I don't need my taxes lowered at the cost of the unnecessary stress put on the people at the other end of the country whilst they're already going through a crap time with companies and hospitals shutting down and an increasingly bad labour market to begin with.
It shows how disconnected politics in this country and how poorly some regions are represented. Over half the politicians are from Holland, I doubt for many of them to have ever really set foot in the other 10 provinces of the country. I'm tired financing the capital, I hope some money flows towards the north, east and south as well for once
They need that money to fund the welfare of migrants! How dare these people think that citizens of a nation should come before a migrant!!
It's all perspective and everyone looks after their own sitution while you blame holland and the capital Amsterdam, me actually living in Amsterdam think ... While you have cracks in walls due to small earthquakes we had an airplane going straight through a flat killing hundreds of people. Is that fair then, wanna trade? That we have over a thousand airplanes flying above our homes every day. I take the risk of non lethal damage to my home everyday over the noise and risk of actually dying. Do you want to swap? My small 42m2 home in Amsterdam vs your's in Groningen? I do expect to hear silence but surprise me.
@@randar1969 You wouldn't take the damage to your house when you knew that it was only a matter of time before your €300 000 house would be a worthless rubble of broken glas and bricks.
Your Bijlmer disaster affected just a tiny portion of Amsterdam en is likely to happen every 500 years, while houses in Groningen still have increasing damage every day.
@@randar1969 Wat een totaal irrelevant lulverhaal!
Juist goed gesproken
I will never understand why the people that had issues with damage to their houses were never compensated for repairs. Living through frequent earthquakes, if not dangerous levels, is perfectly fine, if not a bit uncomfortable. But living in a house that can collapse on you any time is something else. They had billions of revenue didn't they?
This is typical of the Dutch government, they just endlessly debate and postphone the issue, leaving the problems with the victims in the meantime.
The same thing is happening with the "toeslagen affaire" where single low income mothers where falsely accused of fraud, and to a lesser extend the "pech generatie", a generation of students that where unfortunate enough that changes in the law made them obligated to pay back tens of thousands in student debt
The Netherlands doesn't refuse this, some of our politicians do.
Precies!
Socialists like the maker of this video always blame capitalism when in fact is the government doing the harm to the citizens.
En terecht
Ah, that familiar accent, wonderful - I can hear the smile, too!
Loving the production value too~
Yes, curious. What part of the Netherlands can't pronounce the 'S' properly?
this guy is a disgrace , talking shit
Sounds like Paul Davids 😆
@@latro8192the S in Dutch sounds a bit like a "sh" sound. But most Dutch speakers are unaware of this, and think our S and the English S are the same. So when they try to speak English they don't adjust their pronunciation
@@mernisch8307 Yup that's exactly what's causing the accent lol. Barely anyone realizes it. Our English pronounciation is great apart from the S that sounds like a flute when recording. Gets real annoying when you start paying attention to it.
they did't keep the field under pressure all does years resulting in earth quakes, if we extract and keep the the field under pressure there should not be a problem. Off course compensate does how suffer
I was thinking along similar lines, too. If they pumped dense gas into the field, they would be able to maintain the pressure while facilitating the extraction of methane.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuisI suffered through reading what you throw up here using your keyboard and I am nauseous now.
@@9bitsovertake rude!
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis so ree brodher, those nut harpoon a gain.
Yeah i wondered about that. I dont know what would exactly work to essentially replace the pumped gas while also not interfering with the extraction process. If sea water would work then it would be easy but i i have a feeling it wouldnt be that simple at all
So the earth sinks from extracting natural gas causing dozens or hundreds of earth quakes each year. Not a good idea to live on a natural gas field. Like the city is floating on gas. Crazy phonomina.
It was a bit unexpected. 3.6 isn't really strong for an earthquake, but they are particularly shallow which increases the impact on homes.
The earthquakes will continue for a while after stopping. And not paying owners quickly and generously has led to lots of understandable mistrust of the government.
to be completely fair, the city was there centuries before the discovery of the gasfield
all people in Groningen can be EASILY compensated and their houses adjusted. We even sell our remaining gas to other countries and IMPORT more expensive gas, seriously moronic
they can make the houses earth quake proof, but my government is too stupid to just do that. theres even many Groningers that approve of that
Where else are they supposed to live? The netherlands is quite densely populated as it is.
This was a beautiful summary of this long lasting issue. Some things even I didn't know even though I live in the Netherlands.
Yes, the people who live there, The Groningers, didn't really profit from it but do get the downsides of earthquakes. I live in the city and have cracks in the walls. But you could make the Groningers stupid rich and then make the rest of The Netherlands profit from it as well... I am down for that. This option is not investigated...
Except....the gas found in the ground belongs to the state and not to the people of Groningen as stated in the "Mijnbouwwet". And what did/do the people in Groningen use to warm their houses? I assume gas... Many also cook their food using gas.
Stupid rich at the expense of an entire province + a lot of pollution. The cons outweigh the pros here in my opinion
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
using part of the profits to 1) compensate and restore all damaged buildings, 2) set regional building codes requiring earthquake-proofing of new buildings and retrofitting older ones, would solve the problems and allow for further extraction, Chile and Japan have adapted their construction style and life to earthquakes which are generally stronger so this should be feasible, it seems that only extremes are explored, either doing nothing or shutting the field down, whereas a middleground approach should be possible with how profitable the field is.
Sappemeer used to be Hoogezand-Sappemeer and within the NAM some would say they would go to "High Sand Sappy lake" which is a not-that-good translation of Hoogezand-Sappemeer. You forgot to note that they "forgot" to invest in the electricity network as an additional reason we can't easily transition to electricity. I'm still happy my parents decided to leave Delfzijl in time in 1994/1995. back then we already had earthquakes. I still do have some family there. In Groningen we did not see a lot of the funds.
The mutually exclusiveness of gas extraction and living has certainly put a spanner in the works.
Don’t think the Dutch are that rich that you are telling in this video.
Cool opinion bro
Exxon and Shell still refuse to compensate.. many houses still cracked, and Exxon/Shell send their lawyers to the civilians who can't pay these big laweyrs to defend them...State makes commissions, but they only fill their own pockets, hardly anything is done for the people IN the earthquacke region. Yet money is thrown to places who by accident where allowed to get compensation, eventhough no quakes where damaging in these places, these people just go without experts compensation money.. while in Delfzijl where I live, people are time and time again turned down.. "quacademics telling the cracks in the walls are frost damage...
Yup. They dug their own grave by maximizing short-term profit and lying to people.
If they had involved the locals from the start and listened to the real experts, there wouldn't have been such a big problem. We could still be getting that gas out of the ground. The damage to houses would have been less and could have been fixed. Now, we are left with nothing.
As always Groningen get shafted by the Randstad. Groningen didn't profit even a tiny bit from the money made from the gas and now the earthquakes damaged all those properties the people in Groningen are screwed again. Disgusting!
Academics also just told the goverment that the compensation sceme is wrong amd unfair. And the goverment ignored it.
Where was Groning and the rest of The Netherlands when Limburgs was sinking into the ground?
@@Tallgeese556 When did it do so?
I live in this area somewhat just outside the disaster zone, in the eastern and poorest part of the province which is sometimes even called the Eastern Block.
Here the groundlevels are dropping rapidly as well, not just because of gas extraction but also and mostly because of mining that huge amount of salt beneath this particular area.
People do try their best to make something out of their lives, but beneath the surface (in a literal sense and as figure of speech) it's not a happy place at all to be if one opens their eyes.
Just like with the gas exploits the government decided to sort of semi-privatize the mining of salt here using shell companies for Shell and the NAM and thus the government, but it's not very well known to the public.
Very informative video. And I love that it's not too long.
I'm astounded that I knew nothing of the Groningen gas field. Amazing video!
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
The Dutch are definitely not some of the most happy people on earth haha what a joke
This area is known as an earthquake area. And companies like Shell & Exxon mobile should compensate stricken homeowners. Otherwise long jailtime, had it with these "companies",
To a layman like me, it seems the Dutch ran smack into "new" economic pitfall, now called "the Dutch Disease" - something the Norwegians learned from and managed to avoid many years later. To top it off, the Netherlands had been a geologically stable country, and houses were NOT built to withstand geological deformation, hence the disproportional damage to ordinary houses.
I live in Iceland, a famously unstable country in geologic terms, and our reinforced-concrete houses generally breeze through modest geological subsidences like in Gröningen. My last observation: What if the Dutch had replaced the volume of the compressed gas that was extracted by pumping down something they have in abundance like, say, seawater?
They did many studies into that and the best solution was pumping CO2-gas into the field. But it was more expensive than pumping gas out back then. So it was dismissed immediately. Because the gas price is now three times higher, it is possible, but no one knows what the results will be now, if it is pumped into the field. In hindsight they should have done it from the start, despite the costs.
Its not all about the building quality. More about the fact these earthquakes happen not that deep in comparison to natural earthquakes.
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
@@hg2. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Pumping in water would just make matters worse.
@@lucasoosterveld607 I am not denigrating Dutch building standards, Dutch houses are likely built to perfectly appropriate standards for the Netherlands. When something like the Gröningen earthquakes and geological deformations happened, it will all have been well outside normal Dutch experience...
thanks captain hindsight!
Majority of gas income went to the state which used it for social welfare programs and general budget. The province (Groningen) did not see a lot of that money. Also the money was not used much to compensate people who suffered losses hence people there got fed up with the small earthquakes. In Norway, they had more oil and gas but they used it to put into a state fund which is now worth trillions of dollars.
I suppose injection of seawater onto the sandstone to abate subsidence has drawbacks.
yes, the salt water will seal the pores where the gas is housed and the gas field will be destroyed
That was my first thought. But they have plenty of rivers and freshwater to use too. Or another gas that is heavier.
But really, how could the “experts” not see this coming? Reminds me of fracking. Just greedy.
Lol how is fracking greedy?! You're simply injecting 99.9999999999% water and sand into the shale to hold the rock open so the oil and gas can flow into the well bore. Its the Same thing they have been doing to stimulate tight oil and gas wells since the 1950's!
@@TheBoobanI heard something about fracking (hydraulic fracturing) being briefly used in European gas fields until earthquakes led to a ban.
I’m sure that something could have been figured out if time was spent on testing and research in a remote area.
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
The biggest surprise in this video(btw godt jobbet) was ranking of regional GDP location 5. Bratislavsky kraj(sk). Had no idea about this region doing so well.
Very interesting. Although not an accurate way of measuring, you could think of earthquake depths as similar to distances from the epicentre. A 3,5 earthquake will cause more damage 5km away than 50km away.
Informative video. One bit of information that maybe missing. I read once, cannot find it now, that Germany kept pressure on the Dutch government to keep supplies going. This I believe is due to contracts. If that is the case then production will not be stopped. The issue associated with this is if production is stopped for Dutch usage, but kept Germany supplied, would that also put The Dutch population at some sort of disadvantage. I said this is a maybe. If I have got this wrong in any way please tell me how.
There is also a small fact that Rutte went back on his words with the operation of the gas field. Some say that is normal for the man.
As far as i know those contracts last till 2030.
Question : is it possible to section off areas of the gas field? How much would that cost?
If yes, would it be possible to backfill the emptied caverns or volumes of the sandstone layer with a more resilient material that would prevent the settling or sinking of that area? Again, how much would that cost?
Just a feasibility question. No need to go off the rails calling it stupid or some such.
It's a layer of porous sandstone filled with gas. When they extracted the gas the pressure dropped by 70-80% over the years. They did nothing to remain decent pressure in the gasfield and now the whole area is slowly sinking because the sandstone is compacted under the weight from the layers above.
Prohibitively expensive in both cases. It costs much more than the gas is worth.
The Dutch wasted billions upon billions. In the 80's if you were laid off as a postman, you didn't have to look for another kind of job. Same when someone worked in, lets say a greenhouse with paprika's and became allergic for the plants, he was deemed 'afgekeurd' (medically unable to work). I had a collegue who knew this and faked an allergic reaction, so he was 'afgekeurd' and did not have to work again, while he was a healthy 24 year old bloke. He could work as a postman, bus driver, any job you can imagine. But bcs he could not work in his original profession, he didn't have to accept any other job.
Many people abused the system and this costed tens of billions of euros. That is how dumb Dutch policies were! It has become better, but still there is a lot of these weird rules left.
The Dutch governments often did not look ahead and let their emotions get in the way of reason and logic.
Our last government with prime-minister Rutte has crippled our country and has caused crisis upon crisis! Our country is so much worse off than when he took office. So many people were crushed by his government, it is insane. I don't know how he can sleep at night, but he doesn't care. And it puzzles me how he can be a candidate as NATO leader, while he messed up so much overhere.
There must be something else wrong there, you need instruments to detect a 3 degrees earthquakes, no matter the scale and most of Southern Europe sees 3 degrees earthquakes weekly, in Romania we have them almost daily.
You make very good looking videos. But the gas winings were causing earthquakes which is why it was stopped. It is very common knowledge in the Netherlands. It one of the most debated topics ever lol.
The earthquakes are insignificant. But the damage to buildings caused by subsidence is dreadful. The cost of repairing buildings will be massive. The Dutch are renowned for their ability to drain land, to build sea defences, their horticulture and productive farming …..so I know they can fix the problem no matter how expensive - if they choose to do so. Good luck.
The earthquakes aren't insignificant. Even though they rank low on the Richter scale, they take place much closer to the surface than the avarage ones we think of, so they are more dangerous.
@@Vizzit707 Do they cause deaths? No. So they’re not dangerous. But they are expensive to repair.
@@johnfrancis4401 How could anything that damages hundreds of thousands of houses not be considered dangerous? Imagine your roof collapsed ontop of you as a result of the earthquakes, or, say, your floor breaks and you stumble, breaking your leg. Countless accidents could accur as a result of earthquake damages, even if not right at the moment of the earthquake.
@@Vizzit707 The damage caused by one tiny earthquake will be small. It will not be enough to cause the house to collapse.
@@johnfrancis4401 Fair, but what if they are frequent? The video mentions just how often they would take place. So, just like the story goes, drops of water dripping on a rock, given enough time, will shatter it.
You should make a video about the power of ASML and the power it holds against outside economy’s. Also a good video idea is the food research in Wageningen. That’s also a big thing here.
The main issue remained that the Netherlands simply didn't build enough nuclear power plants when they had the chance, we know that the main reason that most nuclear power plants aren't profitable in the West is regulations and strict rules that make it nearly impossible to operate them and whenever one actually is in operation lobbyists from both pro-oil, pro-gas, and anti-nuclear organisations keep filing requests for inspections which makes operating them nearly impossible.
Had the world mass-adopted nuclear energy during the oil embargo we would've seen a much more independent Western Europe and the gas extraction would've been gradually lowered. Of course, this is all in hindsight, but it still baffles me how a very small number of "Green" activists and Big Oil magnates basically prevented progress. Interestingly enough, in some countries these same "Green" activists are actively protesting solar panels and wind turbines, I wouldn't be surprised if they're just a front for Big Oil and Big Gas.
They use that field also to pump gas back into, so it continually gets emptied and filled up, what couses those earthquakes.
Zeer interessant! Bedankt.
So my thoughts on this. Couldnt you pump seawater into the gasfields? Water is uncompressable, easy to transport (through pipe) and goes downwards automatically, i.e wont interfere with gas production, and seawater is abundant.
I live in Groningen and I find this video quite accurate. Only thing is that the gas field is definitively closed since april. They poured concrete in it.
The province of Groningen didn't profit from all that gas even a little bit. All the money went to the Randstad.
The Dutch paid more for theirown gas than the Germans to whom it was sold.
The costs of the damage done to companies AND private citizens by the earthquakes during the last 10 years of the pumping up of gas due to this pumping of gas has still NOT been resolved eventhough HUGE ammounts of money was made of off the gas and is still in existance. As usual the people in Groningen get shafted again.
The actual "Groningen Gasfield" - for sure extends through to Germany, the Gasfield doesn't just stop with man-made
borders, there would be multiple "Oil & Gas fields" within the Netherlands, Belgium & Northern Germany, as those fertile
flat lands, are primarily sandy and in some cases would have been under-water in the past, and being so close to the
"North Sea Doggerland" Oil & Gas fields, it is certain to contain "Oil & Gas".
Note: A couple of worthy points, the Dutch could effectively "drill" for the "billion$ of dollar$ Oil$ & Ga$" [OFFSHORE],
to greatly reduce the chance of Earthquakes damaging homes, it would literally be a "JOB CREATION SCHEME DREAM",
as the platforms, and pipelines are expensive and labor-intensive. In the meantime, "bubble-boats" could take the GAS,
from the platform to the "Coast", after the pipelines are built, the bubble-boats can be used for export, the mentioned
Countries of the Netherlands, Belgium & Germany are rich Countries, and are being used to prop-up puppet regimes
like Russia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc. but those massive funds are being diverted and used for GENOCIDE, think about it.
Seems like another problem with Gas Drilling like we have in Pennsylvania with casing failing and it is affecting water wells normally to the south and within 2 km here in Susquehanna County. The only earthquake we have had was a 3.0 when Shell did a test well back in 1979 and used a type of Fracking back then, but they hit a fault line. Guess what when they started drilling again up her around 2010 another company hit that fault line and caused a little water issue that still has not been resolved.
Most of my family lives in Coevorden, I was born there, I used to be a rig mechanic in the gas fields there.
Now I live in the US.
Nice to hear about where I used to live.
We decided not to use It as a backup. The drilling holes will be filled with concrete. This is done to ease the minds of the people and to be a reliable government (that’s an issue at this point in time+Very well pronunciacion of the names of the towns
Nog zoiets doms idd
Wouldn't it be possible to pump something else back into the reservoir to keep the pressure that stops the rock from collapsing?
Why not pump water in?
I thought they did that with saltwater from the sea
I suppose it is because gas and water do not have the same composition,
There would either be a need for trillions of liters of water or water can not hold the land and would just turn into damp and raise to the surface leaving the entire empty rooms there that would result into earthquakes
@@ellidominusser1138 are you stupid,
So whole province is than damaged with salt👈
The rivers ditches, lakes, áll the nature wil change, certain animals can not live there, salt will do damage to agriculture
i don't think creating a underground swamp is a good idea
Wow, I had never heard of these earthquakes before.
because these are not a big earthquake compared to others
@@nuribayram6740 yeah earthquakes of the same size are occuring in Germany too and there was not even one report about it. I also looked through the whole internet and couldnt find one video of the earthquake or at least some cracks from it
@@nuribayram6740 Difference is standard earthquakes are 10km underground these are 5
@@nuribayram6740 You can't compare...
Amazing video. I have been long opposed to the "green deal" fantasy. But have to say, this video makes me think about it once again. However, even the crazy transition to renewable resources will case problems we don't realize yet, as we had no idea about impact of extracting the gas and oil when it all started. Mining for precious metals and other raw materials, lithium etc. is having impact in other part
As the quakes are shallow, the damages are m9re extensive. The ground above is clay and sand and has no real structure like rock does.
So the quakes causes the earth to sink, but not as large regions, but small sized pieces. Some houses have half the house sinking, which is what causes the damages. The cracks leave houses open to the elements, which causes high energy bills, repair bills, and devaluation.
Also, the houses mostly in the villages and country side, are monuments of hundreds of years old.
The fact is also, that families have either been put through a hell to get heard, or fled the region/country all together.
It's easy to look at "3.6" but there is way more behind that.
It's a great video. Well done.
One commenter also mentioned that the proximity of the 3.6 is 3kms meanwhile usual earthquakes are 10kms underground.
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
Interesting subject, I`ve heard the term dutch disease before, but I was never aware of Dutch gas and that their gdp wealth came from a field within the country.
A good and to the point analysis. And as a dutchman I fully support the decision to close “Groningen”. And anyhow, we have to get rid of fossil fuels as soon as possible to prevent further damaging our climate
Also get rid of the dollar that will also help with the climate ...... Peace climate that is at an all time low. Peace, Neutrality and Prosperity, s a p.
@@grietjehuggan Totally agree. Can you convince Putin to stop this war?
Hey, I lived in Groningen for 7 years and I worked in Delfzijl for 5. Although we pumped too much gas out of the ground and still need to fix most of the damages to ourselves, there are some hopeful projects on the way. So I would like to add to this video to end on a few (slightly) positive notes;
- Machines have been developed to extract Co2 out of the air, this Co2 can be used for a large array of implications, like a substitute for gas or environmentally clean chemicals. However, these machines are very huge (like a building-sized washing machine, that have huge propellors as mid-sections). Sadly, the output of Co2 is like 1/100.000 (maybe even more) of what it's actually needed to make it profitable enough to go through with mass-scale production. Needless to say, we need very clever people to think about how to do this more efficient.
- First (very local) parts of an eventual hydrogen network have been placed throughout several provinces of the Netherlands, Groningen one of them. Hydrogen would be a great substitute for most examples of gas usage and is a very efficient gas as well. However, this comes with very great challenges. How do we make this safe? Will the output be enough to be able to maintain? You may recall people from somewhere invented the hydrogen bomb... I reckon you can piece together how bad it could be when anything might go wrong. And isn't there something better we perhaps haven't thought of yet?
Only time will tell how the Dutch will sustain, same way as every other country in the world.
A small bit of good news is that the hydrogen bomb has very little to do with hydrogen gas for transportation or heating purposes, although in both cases it floats up and away rather than collecting in underfloor inspection pits.
Did you know we already have excellent CO2 extractors, they also produce oxygen as a by product….
It is called trees which we are pulling down to put up more polluters, windmills…….
@@SeorkMaxxYeah but tree's can't make usable gas
@@Quad-Cube Oxygen is quite unusable. Yes.
@@mapi5032 We are talking about economic applications like warming your house right? Not about our human usage of air. In that department I think we need more trees for more oxygen and cleaner air, definitely.
I'm sure they can use some of the revenue to fully compensate home owners and on top of that give Groningen a bigger share.
You’re forgetting the part where the population is sick and tired of destructive earthquakes in the region. That’s why they do not drill anymore.
Good video
Good idea to keep it for emergencies.
I live with 3 solar panels of 450 watts total. Soon I'll buy 3 newer ones 600 watts. Secret I use a pressure cooker and small sleeping space for winter I heat with 200 watts heat lamps. Small generator for back up.
We have old contract with countries, like germany, that we signed 20 years ago about selling gas at a fixed price to Germany.. so most of the gas we mine is sold for like 5% of actual market price due to these old fixed contracts.
Didn't Germany invade the Netherlands several years ago and do a lot of damage?
@@seekeroftruth1200 Not recently.
The Germans put the old contract up for revision a handful of years ago. After a short debate, Economic Affairs reasoned it was too expensive to revise the old contract.
yup. I think till 2030. That includes Germany, France and Belgium. Although Germany also imports, or wants to import, gas from Norway. The gas from Norway would be one thirth of the whole German gas needs.
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
What's stopping the Dutch government from compensating impacted residents properly? Have the resources companies been sued as part of a class action lawsuit?
Slowing down the rate of extraction to an acceptable rate of earthquakes instead of complete closure was the correct pragmatic decision.
Those torches in the gas field… yeah
It's enlightening to hear details of how other countries become success equal to or exceeding the USA if measured by something more than pure profits.
Simple solution. Get all the gas out. Pay back all damages + some benefits for the inconvenience.
You’ll still make huge profit.
Interesting video, mate! Seem like a big Dutch dilemma: money and energy vs livelihood of locals.
There are other ways to make money and energy. It's not an "either-or" situation.
Great video! First time stumbling upon your videos and im excited to watch the rest.
At one point you stated 2/3 of all natural gas in the EU comes from Europe. I looked at your script, and its unclear about what year you speak of. Around 2010 Russian and Norwegian gas definetly made up more than 1/3 of all natural gas in EU.
I am Dutch and I didn't even know all that... never realised why the government was so reluctant to close it all down, because we've never been made aware of the fact we got most of our social benefits out of that... we don't even know how we compare to other countries in that regard, but we were acutely aware of the fucking EARTHQUAKES that NEVER happened before the FRACKING started nor anywhere else in the Netherlands; so it was kind of a BIG deal. Therefore you should consider making these video's in Dutch for Dutch people, cause I can hear that you speak Dutch as your first language, so it shouldn't be more difficult, you might have a smaller audience at first, but the information you give could really change how people in the Netherlands discuss these issues, cause right now we're only aware of farmers and people who got fucked by the government, who's lives got destroyed by our official tax department (IRS in US). So yeah, you could do lot of good is all I'm saying. Probeer het gewoon.
what's the point of closing the field if it already made that province inhabitable?
It's not inhabitable.
i stopped doing my homework to watch this and i dont regret it-
you should be finishing your homework SO THAT you can watch this video mate ;) not the other way around.
@@TheLineCutter already finished it dw
It is ridiculous how the whole country has to suffer from this just because the politicians didn't Treat the people in Groningen fairly....
Sorry for diverting from the very statement. If the Netherlands did fund wealth systems by fossile money, whilst oil companies still getting sickly rich, this is a proof of concept, we have to take the money from the very rich and all of a sudden, poverty of the people ceases.
Why are the Netherlands the only country, where evidence thrives?
It wasn't their in the first place, though they were administering the territory.
Should have gone with the nuclear in heindsight. Now it's probably to risky to do even that with the earthquakes. People's objection to wind and solar I don't really understand tho. Do people really want the dependacy of the Gulf states, Russia and USA to control their energy prices?
If they continue extracting, the profits of gas extraction and the gas pocket collapses, then lives and homes will be lost and the government will have no other choice but to pay up, basically bankrupting the country because the money earned is already spent and the only income to pay for it would be taxes. But as long as they keep extraction at close to 0 and the topic keeps being discussed in parlement about how much the payout should be, they save themselves to actually pay out. If they keep that discussion going for another 100 years then no payout will ever be issued because the people affected will be dead.
Very good video, it explains a lot of the political changes I have seen the country go through over the years.
Can't they "remediate"?
Can't they pump water back into the gas holes to support the ground minimize the earthquakes?
No, if this would "fix" earthquake areas this method would be used in other earthquake areas.
@@HanJanssen-pg9jh
I don't think so.
"Other earthquake areas" are places with tectonic plate fault lines; deep level.
This is just shallow level removal of gas pressure that was holding up an already weak sandstone structure.
@@hg2. The cause doesn't matter, the possible "fix" won't work for both causes, or they would have tried. However people can build earthquake resistant housing. Most Farms where old and in this area earthquakes where very rare.
@@HanJanssen-pg9jh
?
"The cause doesn't matter?"
... Have you ever had a real job?
Ramp up the gas production by 200% of the 1970 double the compensation of the Groningers and give the local gov a yearly cut of the revenue
It's probably a wise decision to leave the oil and gas in the ground for the time being and have it as a strategic reserve for when times get hard. To suddenly become dependent on hydrocarbon revenues might blunt incentives to develop the country in other ways.
Wouldnt have been an issue if they'd invested more of the revenue into the local area rather than stealing it for international projects
How is the agriculture doing in this region with the anti- farmer policies of the central government? Does it make things all the more difficult for farm families as they already struggle with degradation of their homes and structures?
08:40 so tell me what can tell the Silesians. They have 30cm difference in ground level. In some places, there is up to 7 meters of difference. Houses could collapse like a bmsoap bubble. And the "Soviet occupation" did not reimburse for the damage caused by the robbery of hard coal in the years 45-89. Silesia was robbed of the largest treasure it had. People have been exterminated to the core. At least two generations have undoubtedly paid the price of their health, and often their lives. And somehow we have to live here. 30 cm difference. So it's nothing compared to our losses.
Always wondered about this- then remembered the Dutch are strategic thinkers!
I live in the region where the quakes often happen
Couldn't an inert gas, CO2?, or even saltwater be pumped into the same level as the extraction to compensate?
Of course but then you end up with a mixture and that is almost never a good idea. It is always easier to mix than to separate. It's a natural law called entropy. They can't even remove salt from sea water, not at scale.
Vrolijke vriend, ik zie op eens deze video voorbij komen en ik heb het nog niet eens gekeken, ben het ook zeker niet van plan, maar enfin.
De titel klopt compleet NIET. nederland heeft 5 decenia's gas geboord en heeft geleid tot het huidige welvarend nederland, alleen door die boringen zijn er zoveel aardbevingen gekomen dat een hele provincie schade heeft.
En voor de toekomst maakt niet nog zo'n titel.
Groetjes uit Groningen!
Electric heat pumps powered from wind farms with battery storage could heat homes in the Netherlands.
What about other countries I've not heard of them having the same problem
You should probably reduce the clicking sound effects as they get annoying fast with headphones on especially
Noted
I think I can guess what party you voted; the only party that supports extracting Groningen gas
I wonder why companies are always so greedy. And why is that they do not take the wellbeing of humans into account? Is it that people who run companies become ruthless because they can hide behind the anonymity of the company? And could that be the same with government officials? Or do they take bribes?
The correct catchphrase is: in hindsight. But alright, I'll let it slide lol
Ok so there are many considerations far even beyond what this video states but having lived in Japan for close to 10 years and been through the 9.1 earthquake and many above 6.. it shocked me durring the big one in 2011 that NOT ONE SINGLE BUILDING FELL..
IDK maybe work with Japanese building standards for earthquakes.. IDK.. ive seen wooden buildings build over a thousand years ago with no nails that have survived with this specific problem and its not even that expensive, even for skyscrapers there is just a counterbalance thing in the center of the building and for regular homes it has to do with flexibility in the base structure.
But then again, like I said, there is def more to this and im sure the Dutch are not stupid people and are making decisions from more variables than i can see, but im a big fan of LNG
We did not run out of gas, we don't need it! That's some quality euro-cope right there.
*Drill Baby Drill…* 🙌
There are zero benefits to a transition to all electric, unless that is from a nuclear source.
Nice video but the title is a little click bait
The remaining natural gas in Groningen won't make The Netherlands "stupid rich". Only 450 billion cubic meters are left. That's not worth a trillion Dollars, just $170 billion at current natural gas prices.
The estimates of its remaining worth vary greatly, and that's why I didn't want to emphasize this fact too much in the video. But I got the $1 trillion figure from this Bloomberg article:
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-06/dutch-close-europe-s-biggest-gas-field-despite-energy-crisis?embedded-checkout=true
In case you don't have a subscription to Bloomberg, this is the exact phrase:
"Groningen has been a mainstay of Europe’s gas supplies since 1963. Even after a half-century, there’s still about 450 billion cubic meters of extractable gas in reserve-worth around $1 trillion. More critical, there’s room to extract around 50 billion cubic meters per year more than is flowing at present"
But I think any figure of it's worth is very speculative and I've also found lower figures. I felt it was important to mention the potential worth (and I mentioned the high end of estimates).
Also the cost to get it out of the ground goes up the more you extract. Because of the pressure.
Im a 12 year oil and gas extraction specialist from the US.. Just because there is 450 billion cubic meters of proven reserves doesn't mean that it is extractable.. As the field is depleted the formation pressure drops and the flow declines it becomes necessary to artificially stimulate flow which can be extremely expensive depending on the wells dynamics. If the price of gas is low it becomes unprofitable for a business to extract it and is necessary for the government to take it over and use $10 of the tax payers money to make $2.. (You know because the government knows how to spend your money best) I havent studied the geology or characteristic of this field but i would say that if there is earth quakes that indicates that the formation is caving in and it could help maintain the formation pressure and aid in the life of the wells.
@@FreedomofspeechSensor-zu8ip Mr Wiseguy, the gas is pretty extracable .
@henkoosterink8744 Mr. ICantRead i never said it wasn't. I said that just because there is X of proven hydrocarbons doesn't mean that that entire amount of X is extractable.
Instead they import gas etc? Doesn't that require extra fuel that needs to burned to reach them? Also extra fuel and resources to make the transport vehicles and infrastructure etc.. Could save on that by simply using their own local, and at the same time not send currency overseas. Helping the country remain independent and not addicted to immigrant fueled growth like most the western nations..
They could give everyone a fucking large japanese style house that would not crack due to the earth moving a bit
That’s wood, Like in America. Those houses that the Europeans love making fun of all the time because it is. It built from concrete. Each continent, region, city and even down to sections of cities have their own codes and regulations to how buildings need to be built to withstand natural forces/disasters in that area.
There are less earthquake in the EU so the use of concrete is very high. But this material has little to no flexibility which can be more disastrous than needed.
And makes renovation a pain in the ass.
They went up in arms over a 3.5? Those happen in Ohio somewhat regularly and they're barely perceptible.
But who blew up northstream?
And how come the u s has an surplus of lng and became the largest exporter?
Wouldn’t a large proportion of that wealth need to be allocated for the watery things the Dutch 🇳🇱 need to do out there!?
Dear vidusers do not let Rutte lead NATO. He has a very terrible memory of the past.