Reverse SWORD grip is AWESOME and anyone who says otherwise is a basement dwelling LOSER
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- čas přidán 14. 03. 2023
- REVERSE GRIP NINJA WARRIORS!
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Thanks for the shout out! Would be happy to compare reverse grip notes 🤣
Reverse grip is not my friend. But I can do it.
If 'The Great Reverse Grip Experiment' happens to send you to Australia while you're looking for a teacher, let us know! We might just have to pop down for a lesson or two ourselves!
I believe that the reverse grip discussion is more about swords designed more like the katana. The flat spine of the katana can rest against the forearm when using a reverse grip. The spine of a double edged sword is a knife edge, so resting that against the forearm will get you cut. What I have mentioned is because one of the best advantages of a reverse grip is that the sword doubles as bracers or a buckler.
@@justinweatherford8129 That's dependent a lot on the orientation of the sword itself. You eliminate the problem of the dual edges if you lay the flat of the blade against your forearm. This also prevents the guard from becoming a hinderance, allows you to perform a slip block more effectively, and only requires a small amount of wrist rotation to produce and effective counter strike.
Hey, your channel sucks
Every sword-CZcamsr should just settle their disputes in one giant free-for-all duel, just like the olden days. 🗿
I would love for the SwordTubers (title patent pending) to have sparring sessions or a tournament, to see whos the best. All in good fun.
Fake sword
@@noobmaster4412 REAL
@@hornyducks4090 real fight fake sword
CZcamsrs settling things with duels isn’t the olden days. Those days were… when was the last CZcams Creator boxing match? 😂
I appreciate Shad actually trying to make it work. That's the mindset you should have behind testing techniques like this.
Testing any technique at all, imo.
Try and make it work. Within reason
@@davecrupel2817 Exactly. If you go into something expecting it to fail, it will probably fail. If you go into something saying "Well, maybe if I do this..." then it just might work.
Also part of why I prefer theory over practicum. If you learn the theory of a technique, you can develop your own play on it. If you learn the practical uses of it, you may see the flaws and assume it won't work, preventing you from giving it a fair chance.
@@jeffisaperson4471 Well at the end of the day, theories should be put to the test. Which is exactly what they did here in this video. Unless it's put to the test, there's no real way to determine where the flaws and the strengths exist. Both theory and practicum have their place, and both are needed to find the truth.
In a world where the world forces you to use edge techniques to fight if not you die, we will have to find solutions 👏(⌐■-■)
@@davecrupel2817 me when I build random decks in Yugioh
This show feels so much like TOP GEAR for sword enthusiasts
Yes but it's the American top gear not the original or the reboot
CHOP GEAR
@@isaacmarshmallow8751top chop
now it sounds like its made for drug abusers lol@@isaacmarshmallow8751
@@joshuabarbre3245 lol no kidding, original top gear was literally just marketing for sponsored cars.
Gotta be honest, it took me a long time until I realized Nate was actually just part of the channel and not some kind of professional historian or presenter. His on-screen charisma is absolutely fantastic, seems amazingly comfortable and well-composed in front of the camera.
Cheers Barid :) I'm just talking about things I love, the amazing team at Shadiversity does the rest.
@@NateV-SwordSavvy Did Shad meet you at a ren fair? I feel like the first video you were in was a back scabbard video where he ran into you at some kind of convention and then he just brought you back home with him.
My instinctive understanding is that the longer the blade, the less viable it is for reverse-grip. That's why daggers are so good for it, as JoergSprave has proven.
That's what I'm thinking reverse grip can work for daggers and short swords like the Gladius but nothing longer then that
I believe technique is key. Focus on the strengths you find.
No leverage? Forget about blocking and use the blade to deflect and parry only.
No reach? Focus on grapples and closing the distance.
The Mongols used it quite extensively with a sword called an ild. When gripping it the tip came to the top of the shoulder; rather short sword but very effective up close.
Warhammers are nice reversed as well.
It's particularly viable if you're using single edged blades, since there's no/minimal threat to the user. Hence there's an entire school of Kendo built around it.
Most famously Musashi Miyamoto's Niten Ichi-ryū school involves a Katana in the dominant hand and a reverse-grip wakizashi in the off-hand. Granted this is a HEMA discussion, but single-edge daggers/knives are still common in Europe.
Something I'm taking away is that reverse-grip may be just functional enough as a valid character choice, if the character is the kind that enjoys added challenge to their fighting, or someone who is willing to sacrifice function for form.
Indeed, an interesting form of visual storytelling might be for a character to start out in a reverse grip as their signature move, but as the fight drags on & the opponent proves to be way tougher than the character was expecting, they may shift to a more functional grip to show how serious that particular fight is.
This is a class storytelling act. If a protagonist is regarded as a great duellist they might choose to use reverse because fights are too easy. But if they come across another as good then they get serious. It creates tension
Classic starkiller, starts out in reverse grip then transitions into standard grip once the fight is started
@@coreymitchell3058 ylu already know but thats because shien deflects blasters. Funny how the stormtrooper is an iconic gank though
Loser
I was noticing how much it looked like the reverse grip resembled a unarmed fighting stance. Maybe a character is a more fist-oriented fighter who uses very nice gauntlets and a reverse-gripped sword to augment their otherwise unarmed fighting. Grabbing and swatting incoming swords with their protected hands while getting some slashes and pommel strikes in with their own sword, almost punching with a sword. I could see a cross guard really hurting someone like that
I like how you guys respect each other and allow each other to make a point without trying to interrupt each other, very open minded and respectful!
When I was a child I used to participate in large neighborhood sword fights with many people involved the only time I saw reverse grip stuff work was when in a 3v1 and the defender needed to protect their back. You could hold the sword in reverse grip with your off hand and keep anyone at your back threatened as long as you kept trying to move away. The number of times this worked was astounding.
I feel like that could be easily countered by someone who knew what they were doing, to be honest.
@@mrjtfang2 Yeah but if the reverse grip guy also "knows what hes' doing" then it cancels out thus making this argument useless as it always is. What does "know what they were doing" even mean? Highly skilled? Experienced? Trained? If the other guy is not those things it's not whatever he's using it's a skill issue at that point and if he's lesser skilled then there's no point in debating much if anything he does because he's a noob.
@@alexanerose4820 Having formal training in a practical style of combat-in this case something with swords.
@@mrjtfang2 It’s written in treatises that a better master will always beat a lesser master because he knows all the plays... But a novice can still beat a master because random bullshit is unpredictable.
“I’d rather fight a master than a novice” from Fiore, or something like that.
@@WisdomThumbs i... okay, i guess? this really isn't any more convincing to me either.
I'm so happy for how far shad's come on youtube. I still remember when he was just a guy with a camera in his study in front of a marvel poster, now he's got a castle, lots of property, awesome people on his team, a bigger sword collection, babies, a cavalier king charles spaniel. This man is a king, seriously.
All he needs now is an actual dragon.
Shad is the coolest monarch
Shad is Chad.
He working on his short film of his book as well
Shad for Duke of Australia
I always thought reverse grip was a way to make dual wielding more effective. One sword in standard grip and one in reverse so even if they're the same length they're less likely to bump into each other. Shorter swords kinda helps the whole thrusting issue as well, less sword will keep the point farther from the ground.
I have only seen reverse grip be useful in knife vs unarmed combat. Because range isn't an issue, and you can use boxing punches as well as hammer style moves with more force than knife swipes. But then you are facing an unarmed opponent and are already at an advantage.
With two shorter weapons that can only be used one handed, you could also (potentially) brace it against your forearm in your off hand and perhaps use it to block an attack while striking with your main hand. Or, maybe, use footwork to put yourself in a position to stab with your off hand while blocking/parrying with your main hand.
I like using both in reverse
czcams.com/users/shorts4aJ6obdf1KU?feature=share doesn't really work. Reverse grip makes your weapon really ineffective. As seen in the video. If you use two weapons of the same length, not mentioned in the video, they may bump into each other, but you can fix that issue by practicing with two weapons in normal grip and practicing not bumping them into one another. If you use reverse grip instead you will turn you perfectly good weapon into an ineffective weapon
@@lelonmusk4836 It's not a bad video but it's pretty much the opposite of what my idea was. In my thought process you'd use the big weapon to move their weapon out of the way so you can come in sideways with the reverse grip sword and slash their throat or something.
Something to consider is that bladed Tonfa might be the obvious alternative to reverse gripping a sword or pair of daggers. Better defensive options, helps solve the wrist problems, and overall a much more dedicated weapon to such a fighting style.
Thats actually a good alternativ, but i fear that bladed tonfas would have quite the short range, maybe use chinese hook swords, they can be used like tonfas or swords!
spiking the short end and using them like you are a boxer makes sense to me, making it like a cross could also make it able to direct weapons in a parry, but blading the long end doesn't make sense tho, I've seen a few videos of people using them and hits with the long end are from all different angles, it also seems easy to stab yourself with the long end if it gets hit right.
Due to the grip, while it's less than reverse grip, you lose reach, also strikes from a tonfa if caught I assume will end up like 26:15, this is enough to make using a tonfa in one hand and a dagger/short sword in the other sound more appealing to me... thinking about it a either a spiked pavise or a heavy-duty gauntlet with a push dagger makes more sense than a tonfa
@@AnD1262 The reason most of that is a great idea but ultimately not applicable is because this is all about a fighting style to be an alternative accommodation to using a sword with reverse grip. With use of daggers you'd just end up piercing rather than slashing and if you do slash you still run into the same wrist issue- same goes for push dagger, hence why tonfa are good because they resolve that entire problem. With a gauntlet, that just results in a boxing style.
Beyond tonfa, what other weapons would accommodate a reverse grip style that is easy on the wrists and can provide decent leverage?
It's kind of similar to when they talked about reverse gripping a dagger, which can work, but only because you're in such a close quarter anyway.
So a Bladed Tonfa would be kind of a like a dagger in that sense.
Except you wouldn't mainly stab with a Tonfa, you could do strikes with it as well.
This is like the professional version of what me and my friends did growing up and it warms my heart that you guys have made a career of it. 😊 Love watching you guys hash this out.
Me and my eldest brother used to take turns, one hiding somewhere in the house, the other one seeking. Both of us were armed with reinforced cardboard tubes from inside gift wrap and kitchen paper rolls. When one of us found the other, a brilliant swordfight would ensue. Great times. Oh, and we never told our parents...
@Silly Puppy That sounds awesome! We always had a very similar game but my buddy lived next to the woods with a huge steep hill to climb covered in vegetation and hiding spots. We would hide up there and search for each other.
Im telling you dude we should have died like soooo many times considering we were battling on the edge of massive drops and ravines lol. We even built a zip line. A home made massive zip line that went WAAAAAY too fast and slammed us into a tree every time. So much fun!
Reverse grip seems the ideal grip for one scenario, defending an enclosed stairwell from above. The shorter range of movement and the fact that it easily lets you attack down and defend attacks from below seems like this is the one scenario that reverse grip has an advantage against the traditional method. You should test this!!
Not a bad thought dude props
There's so many scenarios and possibilities. Perhaps vs ladder climbers too, or phalanx style pike/spear (shad grip i think is historic there)
I think knowing the actual power difference behind a full body ice pick stab vs conventional. If cuts and weak stabs aren't penetrating, it might simply be required.
@Warren Cash the issue is that isn't really reverse, that is just stabby stabby. An enclosed stairwell would make it so conventional swordplay has a harder time with the much smaller area to maneuver your sword in.
Ah, yes. Having the higher ground like Obi-wan.
@@mandowarrior123that’s where we bring in the choppy swords, the one’s used by some Gauls I believe to chop through Roman shields or to knick the back of their heads, main reason Rome made those iconic infantry helmets
I think the one-handed reverse grip has two major uses:
1. Can be used to good effect with the icepick grip: requires using a sword/knife/dagger/whatever with blade length that is no longer than the length of the wielder's forearm, and it is advisable that it is shorter.
2. A convenient way of carrying a drawn single-edged sword, probably curved, that has the side benefit of looking cool and looking good in portraiture thanks to composition, and allowing the blade to be in view when zoomed in due to cropping restraints.
A lot of people think that it's good for close-in blocking because it looks like it should work since you've got your forearm there, but the problem is that unless you brace the blade against your forearm you only have your wrist to work with, and you can only do that with a single-edged blade anyway.
I've been writing a book where one of the protagonists developed a reverse grip fighting style where the blade rests flat against the forearm, all while having the posture, stance, and movement of a modern boxer. The style is meant to be non-lethal.
The character is magically prodigal, and having watched this video, I now believe it is the only way this fighting style could work, and that is incredibly validating.
What's the name of said book
Did you finish your book?
@@gabrielgendron4745 Going through the second draft currently
I'm already interested.
Wonder how he would use a sword like this non-lethally, a boxing stance which im guessing is the common rear to cheek lead extended stance, and a sword pointing down the forearm.
The reverse grip seems best for fighting goblins, or something else really short where you'd want to protect your shins.
i think reverse grip is good if you have two swords, one for defense and one for offense
you would use forward grip for the offensive sword which you can just use traditionally single handed and reverse grip for the defensive sword
good way to protect a cut to your legs
@@madhatten00 That's not bad either.
The thing is you also have to remember hight difference is a big thing in a lot of fights. Like these people are about the same hight but imagine if hight was different
I always use the backside for gripping though. Idk why but I just naturally am better. But for reverse grip I feel like it could be very useful if your dominant hand is opposite to theirs.
Someone tell Goblin Slayer
Shad's two-handed grip looks a lot like certain spear grips, where the forward hand is turned inwards and mostly works to guide the weapon. Really interesting video.
yes exactly first thing I thought of as well.
Love the analysis and thank you so much for putting this much effort into this.
I love to see the skill differential between Shad and the others here. Shows how well practiced he is.
😂😂😂😂
Shadiversity releasing blasphemy live on television.
I love the new style you took the channel to. It feels like watching some professors researching their work with proper informational banter.
I love how you guys legitimately go in detail on how this could work. Great analysis.
Shad about the true reverse grip, I think you're holding the sword in the wrong position. I think a true reverse grip style should be keeping your hands positioned the same but have your sword at the hip pointing behind you. You're holding it like a boxer with his hands out far.
Good stuff! In an age where long format is disincentivesed this is a breath of fresh air
I always love when a good Shadiversity episode takes an experimental approach to cinematic sword fighting to see how effective it would actually be. Awesome fun as always.
he's most impressive ability is to be able to make a 30 second short into hours long video and just talking talking talking talking none stop. At the end you realize you waisted your time to give a fantasy warrior his fame.
Shad is retarded his arguements lack anything that isnt his opinin and the "tests" are all designed to prove him right not prove the theory he is testing right or wrong its always designed to make him appear correct even though 99.999999999% of the time he is dead wrong and way to arogant to even realize that others can clearly see you set the test up to prove you right not to test the theory and then even if he did not only does he not have the knowledge to atempt it but he doesnt even have the skill to back it up nor is he in shape enough to even properly atempt the manuvers that he strikes down.....ad thats the reason he strikes them down is he is too fat and lazy to atempt to train the way it would need to be to prove a 1/4 of his claims
@@jj987987987 if you dont like it, you can always just not watch it. you know, theres thousands of hours of other youtube videos posted every day.
@@anonymous-mj8wb I enjoy reading comments and see a whole bunch of people talk about things they don't know. And yes, I don't watch the video, those are pure garbage, many of those are actually wrong not just from lack of source and lack of brain, it's also dangerous.
shadiversity is the swordfighting equivalent of mythbusters
reverse sword grip is my preferred technique in the restroom
Something I'm surprised you didn't test is having a reverse grip in your off hand, while having standard grip in your main hand. I genuinely feel like reverse grip would be far better for dual-wield setups
It is effective as a low gaurd that can also stab and slash occasionally.
While I haven't really trained like these guys, instinctively that's how I prefer to hold a sword, reverse grip in the right hand, normal grip in the left.
@@EffervescentPhantasm I’d personally do the reverse. Dominant hand gets the standard grip, Non-Dominant hand gets the reverse grip.
@@remuskane8684 I'm a lefty, so my right hand is my non-dominant.
@@EffervescentPhantasm Ah, apologies. I had the thought “maybe they’re a lefty”, then had the thought “like, 7% of the population is a lefty, probably a safe bet”. I am a fool. A buffoon.
I wouldn't have expected it, but this was actually fascinating!
I’m loving the newer format. You’re little sketches are quirky and fun and I like your chemistry, even if sometimes it’s cringe… it’s a good cringe. If you took a couple of improv classes you would see amazing benefits. But I like this new Shadiversity.
Sorry to hear about your health issues. We’re all with you bud!
I think "good cringe" is called _camp,_ and yes, Shad's channel benefits from being [a] little campy. 😁
@@runswithphantoms1757 I never thought of it that way, but that's a good way of putting it
I’m British, this is far from camp for us… if anything it’s a little conservative 😂. I wasn’t referring to the ‘campy’ moments but The chemistry between the lads. Sometimes it feels a little cringe like when your friends who are a couple are having a disagreement but saving face because your in the car with them. That cringe😂.
@@ImmersedGamer My couple-friends never had the courtesy to save face in front of me [especially in the car, where I was trapped]; I always had to listen to their *shit* until I kicked them out of my life lol
Eh, I haven't cringed. Maybe I don't know what moments exactly you mean, but I find the banter and silly skits simply funny.
Shad's two handed reverse grip style with both hands facing down is one of the ways I'd fight with a polearm, it's oar grip. So at that point it's basically a glaive with a lot more blade and a lot less haft and If you're really intent on fighting in that stance a glaive or axe would be better. The extra haft lets you spread your hands a bit for more range of motion and you've a longer range of attack. The shorter blade isn't much of an issue because if your opponent closes the distance you can just shorten your grip and pull the blade closer to you.
As soon as I saw it I was reminded of eiku which is basically a bladed oar.
😯
One KEY factor that must be taken into consideration in this debate is the design of the weapon i.e. one *cannot* usefully use a long sword in the manner of a glaive or axe because it wasn't designed for that i.e. it doesn't have the correct balance or blade edge or construction e.g. an axe blade is thicker and heavier than a sword blade because it is a chopping weapon. A long sword is a slashing weapon totally unsuitable for chopping wood, for example. Also, given its blade weight and design function, an axe will often lodge itself into the target. This means it *must* be strong enough to withstand being levered out when if it becomes lodged; try to do this with a sword blade and it is likely to snap because it's not thick enough (because it was never designed to be used like an axe. Yet, in fact, a sword is unlikely to ever become lodged because it doesn't have sufficient weight behind the blade head, or the wedge-shaped edge that is designed to force splits in whatever it strikes. The glaive performs under similar principles i.e. it's a chopping weapon with a much heavier blade head than a sword's blade, with a longer handle for leverage/swing.
In a nutshell, using a sword as if it's something else is simply irrational.
@@KeldorDAntrell not sure what kind of axe you’re talking about. In context of “fighting like polearm”, I would assume youre talking about something like a Dane axe, but that thing is known for having very thin axe blade, thinner than many swords. Also axe that are meant to be used in battle are totally not suited for chopping wood, as they don’t have the blade profile to split wood, they are all fairly thin, meant for cutting. And if you’re referring to wood chopping axe(wedge shape), why on earth would anyone try to come up with technique of fighting with that? It’s a tool, not a weapon.
@@yanli111 there are martial arts that deal with improvised weaponry
I love the sound the swords make when they hit each other. It's beautiful, & It's weirdly wholesome.
Definitely need more of this!
There are 3 ways to reverse grip. R1, R2, and R1.5.
Tyranth mostly used Reverse Grip with 1 hand (R1). This is - to borrow Mario Kart Wii as an example - driving around the track as the devs intended.
Nate was telling Shad to use Reverse Grip with 2 hands (R2). This using mushrooms to cut corners. Not exactly what the devs intended, but close enough.
Shad was using Reverse Grip 1 hand, Normal Grip 1 hand (R1.5). This is using a Mushroom to bounce onto a rock formation, and drive around that, getting credit for the lap.
R1 is "true" reverse grip, but both R2 and R1.5 are technically both reverse grip.
I would love it explained without examples
I've fought with R1.5 while goofing around with friends as a teenager, and it essentially works like wielding a short spear, which is my preferred weapon. It makes an interesting variation on the wrath stance, but you really want to be able to switch in and out of it quickly.
@@mr.cauliflower3536 I'm aware I'm way over tired, but it just made it more confusing and I've played tons of Mario Kart. Guessing that was the point, made me laugh! 😂
Finally another mkwii fan who likes looking at men sword fight.
those examples lol perfect for the youtube sword larp demographic
Because Star Wars is the most relevant pop culture thing here, I have some observations on that front.
Starkiller/Galen Marek from The Force Unleashed is one of the most prominent examples of the reverse grip. But when I took a closer look at the attack animations I noticed that the reverse position is just his starting point. He switches it for most of his attacks to the normal position so he's not hindering himself. He spins the handle around in his hand after ending the first strike. It should be much easier to do that with a weightless blade (and with the Force) than with a normal sword. Plus the lack of crossguard helps. And since Starkiller starts off in the weird position it also gives him the element of surprise that Nate talked about. The game designers actually put a fair bit of thought into it to make the attack moves sort of plausible rather than fully depending on the rule of cool. Too bad it's easy to miss so most people don't catch it. Anyway, if you needed a reason to (re)play the game, this is one.
Ahsoka Tano also, occasionally, uses a reverse grip in her off-hand. She uses it mostly for defense, though, while attacking mostly with a standard grip in her main hand. As someone above stated; that was actually done historically in Japan, most notably by Miyamoto Musashi.
Ahsoka Tano also uses it, and younger Anakin. I believe it's exclusively when dual wielding, which makes it a bit more plausible as you can counter strike more quickly with the other blade.
The animators probably noticed how awkward it would be and changed it up. Keeping it reversed for the edgy pose but flip it to standard for the actual work.
The thing I was wondering about Ahsoka reverse gripping in her off hand is it’s a light saber. How doesn’t she not injure her arm? It’s fine in a TV show or movie but just wondering like if light sabers were real. Get it too close and you severely damage yourself. Or your opponent could push it into you in a bind a lot easier too
@@84rinne_moo "git gud", I guess 🤷🏻♂️😅?
But seriously, I don't think it's THAT big of a danger. Maybe if you're in a bind, but I feel like that's more likely to happen in your main hand. I've never seen a bind in a low guard before, and that's mostly what you'll be guarding from with your off-hand in a reverse grip. Outside of binds (or blocking with by bracing the blade against your arm, which wouldn't make any sense with a lightsaber, anyway, unless you wearing lightsaber resistant armor on your forearm), I don't think it's even an issue. That's another way to prevent injury, actually; just wear lightsaber resistant armor on your forearm(s) and you'd be totally fine, regardless 🤷🏻♂️.
Ive been wanting a vid on this for ages
I love that nunchucks made their way into this. Absolutely perfect way to close this off.
One thing I noticed is that when Nate or Tyranth reverse gripped, they used it like a reverse gripped dagger, whereas Shad used it basically like a spear.
And the spear worked better, proving once again that pointy sticks are op
Tyranth and Nate are great additions to the channel. They really add a lot to the Shadiversity content. Keen to see more of them in future videos.
Thanks for the Tinker Rattle!
I can’t help but smile at all of these vids
Adding the two new guys really feels like when Mythbusters added the junior Mythbusters.
They're both excellent additions. I went from kinda watching every once and a while to being fully engaged in every episode.
As soon as Shad first mentioned about reverse grip being usable and better than nothing yet overall just worse I was getting happy flashbacks of the wonderful series of Sticks VS Nunchucks.
You know why Nate makes this better? His playful energy has yall sparing! Now you need to lay seige to some castles, and really discover the value of machiculations. Edit: Good camera man, too.
Love how the person most experienced in reverse grip is least hopeful 😂
Great video! ❤️
as a writter that does research about combat situations, i think that reverse grip is only good if you have smaller blades and a little bit of fantasy/magic stuff, but in real life it has SO much little to do against conventional grip
True, and even in fantasy when im writing, using it sparingly is a better choice
It was the default grip for rondel daggers, great for piercing layers of padded clothing.
Curious, do you think this would apply to dual wielding reverse grip for defence and close quarters in your off hand normal on you dominant hand
@@adamcallaway3762 Good question. I think it could work especially blocking cuts, but I dont know about stabs... That'd probably be better not reverse grip.
@@martonstrenner1937 Yep, it sucks at defending against thrusts. I have a friend who I fence with and he likes his sai, so effectively two dagger length weapons. in reverse grip, really hard to stop a thrust, forward grip, can use the prongs of the quilons to help catch blades.
Shad's reverse grip roughly equates to "It's still one handed, the other is just there to help with leverage."
Good to see him try it properly like Tyranth and Nate, and feel why they had so much trouble with it.
Never knew how much I would enjoy watching men get sweaty being geeked out about swordfighting
this is the nerdiest channel i’ve ever seen, and i love it
I really like the deeper implementation of Thyrant and Nate in your videos! First I was sceptical but man, they often added exactly the ideas I have while watching.
Like Nate mentioning the advantage of distraction if you expect your oponent to fight the usual way as a right hander, but you suddenly are confronted with a lefty or a reversed grip and your oponent, besides having the disadvantages of reversed grip, has the benefit to know both styles.
Nate and Thyrant are the perfect addition to your videos.
I'm going to channel Easton here a bit. In the east, reverse or "earth" grip is mostly used in extreme close range emergency situations, such as counter-assassination. Basically any scenario in which a fight breaks out in conversation distance. But once a distance is made between you and the attackers, you switch to a more conventional grip. Giving you the best advantage possible for each situation.
Stance switching would be pretty effective and an easy way to throw off your opponent.
Completely agree. The point in kung-fu and kobudo is to use any weapon in any grip and learn to grip switch because in a pinch, you could grab a weapon "wrong" and the opponent won't give you a chance to switch.
Certain paired weapons can be used with a reverse grip against a heavier weapon, but even there the more practical way is to have one (usually forward weapon) conventionally and another in reverse.
Still, this is normally done with weapons up to 70 cm long (about elbow length). A longer weapon loses manoeuvrability in reverse grip.
@@artistpenguin5890there is something to be said for switching IN the clinch though. I've had a few matches where I engaged with heaven grip, and closed into a clinch. While the opponent was trying to maneuver out of it, I switched to earth and threw my elbow and shoulder into it, giving the leverage needed to overpower and force a cut ( can also be done by bracing or mordhau gripping). But it only works if the opponent stands the ground instead of retreating.
Ultimately, it's really just good at close quarters. Unfortunately, all these tests were done in a dueling scenario rather than ambush work. They are testing this in basically all the worst ways.
That's exactly how I've seen it used and described. Its an effective counter for surprise attacks because its fast, its brutal, it's usually done at extremely close range and most likely directly from a draw if you're using a katana. Tanto uses reverse grip all the time, and I've personally found some rather interesting and innovative uses of reverse grip with a hanbo (which is my favorite because I can open carry that and people usually think it's a cane. I've even taken it on planes and usually no one objects).
*havent finished the vid just yet* (but i will come back to it) great vid too btw guys
using katanas and wakizashis, i feel they were optimised for reverse hand, my buddies and i had sparred and the epic combos we had done was awesome, (mind you this was 2003)
i recall i was carrying both bokken katana and wakizashi, my mate came in with a 2 handed power diagonal top down cut from his left to right, i reverse gripped my katana braced it to my arm to guard and parried it, got caught on the hilt and drove it to the ground opening him to a left foot step in and left hand reverse grip wakizashi strike to the jugular
i kinda felt like aoshi shinomori from rurouni kenshin then that was memorable, later he made me pay lol
one of the issues i find with the reverse grip is the distance, very poor distance control, as you guys have said, but it is a great to counter and close the gap between you and the opponent
one point I feel is fair to make is that I personally(I practice Katori Shinto Ryu, doesn't contain any HEMA or reverse grip stuff) feel like this is a mainly defensive stance that offers good protection. Using deflections rather then blocks and parries, and offering strikes with the pommel rather then the blade. So I would compare a lot of stances with a Tonfa.
Besides that, incredibly informative and love to see that you've managed to increase the depth of your work with the increased manpower.
After hearing all this I had a brilliant idea, the swordsman who uses a reverse grip in the same sense that Ruroni Kenshi uses a reverse blade or Inigo Montoya uses his left hand: An intentional handicap. So proficient to best most other fighters with a reversed grip, but then that amazing reveal when they're actually forced to use it properly.
The problem is reverse grip was a common wat to hold an off-hand blade in Japan. Musashi Miyamoto's whole style was built around it. The difference between it and here though is that, ya know, it involved using a standard grip in the other hand and a far shorter blade.
Also Kenshin still kicks ass even with his reverse edge sword, he just can't kill people.
@@warbossgegguz679 That was the point in Kenshin. The reverse blade meant he could hurt, but not kill, being one of the deadliest assassins....ever. But as was said during one of his final confrontations, all he had to do was just turn the sword around...
Until their opponent reveals that they're not left-handed either.
It’s so nice to have sparring tests and other voices. Normally I’m not for this kind of change in my favorite channels but shad has stayed in the videos enough that I actually enjoy this.
finally finished the vid, havent practised with longswords yet, but i do agree with everything you guys have said with reverse grips for longswords anyway,
ive only really practiced with bokkens, used to study ninjutsu, and hapkido, and to reverse grip the katana, its also alot of footwork as well, tbh, when i caught my mates bokken in the tsuba that was all luck and followed with driving my sword int he ground forcing him into an open position for me to step in with the wakizashi
now that i remember he also got me in a reverse grip with the wakizashi
i came in offensive right diagonal cut down but he countered with the wakizashi i glid down off his edge, he closed the gap snaking his arm around over pinning my hand not my blade to his ribs, and as his arm went over his wakizashi went under around and perched on my throat then reverse gripped it with his right hand for leverage before twist dragging it out of his left hand
i could just imagine it wouldve been awesome to watch as a cinema stunt lmao, kill bill style
Hey Shad. Nice cut btw. It really suits you.
40:45
That one may be my favorite moment with Nate. It was cool, charismatic and adorable, can't get too much better than this.
This has been a blast. I'd say you all did a very good job exploring the reverse grip technique.
"The size of your sword doesn't matter"
As a small-sized sword individual, I needed to hear these words.
I’ve been training reverse grip for years it’s all in the stance, the way you hold it, and the hand you hold it in
Oh crap, i never realized the video was nearly an hour long lol, it flew by.
You guys are super fun to watch.
This was more entertaining than I thought. I've never spared with anybody but even I know holding it in reverse grip is horribly Uncomfortable.
Feels better than normal grip for me
Make a sword designed for reverse grip and see the results. I am not expecting much.
You can hold a lot of blades in a reverse grip similar to how you'd hold a tonfa without any discomfort. I'm not sure about ones as long and straight as these, but stuff like wakizashis feel completely natural when gripped like that.
You almost have to make reverse grip work for the fighting style and stance you are most comfortable with. You have to be flexible and quick. It's niche and can throw off your opponent if they hesitate and react slower to your handling.
@@ragingfilthycasual aye. Just reversing the grip and changing nothing else won't work the same as if you just changed your weapon and nothing else. You have to adjust a ton of things if you want to maximize its potential.
But also, you don't have to just do one grip. It's pretty easy to swap to a reverse grip when you find yourself in more niche situations it's appropriate for. You just won't do that in these sort of clean, 1v1 duels because they're designed in a way not to create such scenarios.
Such a good video this is the shit I'm here for sword theory and honest technique testing
My favorite reverse grip technique is underhand left shortsword and overhand right shortsword because they're usually much more focused on the blade that's pointing at them and then you can try to sneakily slash them with your off hand after or in the middle of an offensive mainhand flurry
In my experience, the component that people really seem to forget is that you don't use just one or just the other. Switching your grip is something that you can do -- situationally -- to alter your angle of attack. --- Very specific circumstances only. --- In particular, the grip that we see shad using can be useful in certain types of close range situations, such as when in a bind or when the other person is trying to close the distance. The key is that you NEVER start from this position and you do not use it to intitiate a confrontation. This is something that you change to when you are already in a position to take advantage of the leverage provided at specific close-range angles. It is a tool with a purpose.
One switch you can try from a normal a two-handed grip:
This is a leading motion using a right-lead-hand example. A downward diagonal swing from the upper right. As you reach the bottom of the motion and your arm positions are changing, twist your body a little more toward your off-hand side, lower your stance a touch, and quickly rotate your lead hand to this reversed position. As your body twists, also bend over a little and bring your left hand in to rest against your left hip. Push your lead hand a little bit ahead of you and a little bit up as you take a long sliding step with your left foot diagonally back and across your right foot. Maintain that close contact with your left hand and left hip. In the correct circumstances, this awards you either a substantial leverage advantage or an unanticipated angle of attack. This is very useful when combined with a shuffle step inside the opponent's reach, and can transition back to other stances. The main problem is that the pivot to or from for the lead hand needs to be done during a motion that supports the direction of rotation. No point if it can't be done fast. Surprise is a big part of getting a hit in, and this is just another way to surprise an opponent.
This has a similar rationale to halfswording, and there are a particular positions and motions that work well with this. The advantages over halfswording are that you don't need gloves of any sort and you don't need to move your entire arm or weapon to change position. It's a simple wrist rotation which is easily missed by your opponent (again, in the proper circumstance, because you timed it that way). Timing is crucial.
To reiterate, the technical application is extremely narrow, and is best used to alter your angle in an unexpected manner, so that when the other person thinks you are in a weak position, you are actually very strong. Apply basic Art of War: be strong where they think you are weak, and let them think you are strong in areas where you lack power. So consider which angles and available options are weak in a normal two handed grip, and then examine what changes when you abruptly turn your lead hand to a reversed position. Make sure you support that position with any necessary change in body orientation and foot position.
The main takeaway that I would advise considering is that Shad is correct about the two handed version being pretty much the only useful form of this. Having a two handed grip allows you to rotate your lead hand pretty much instantly and completely change your angle of attack. It is not intended as the primary method, but it is a powerful tool when used correctly. And the correct use often involves trickery. 😉
Something I noticed that I don't think was mentioned is that, when Shad was using his two-handed reverse grip, even when he was breaking through and making good strikes on the opponent, they were still pretty fatal trades.
24:02 very intense moment. The sharp, screeching sound of blades and the moment of silence as the man with hair proved his point was tremendous
This is the nerdiest video I've seen in a while and that's why I love it
As someone with about a decade of practice with various weapon lengths and grips, I find a reverse grip to be ideal for a small offhand used for blocking larger weapons by bracing the offhand weapon along the forearm.
Tonfas best weapon?
Same thoughts I had, with 15 years martial arts practice....daggers, CQC and half-swording I see validity.
Still....going to watch the vid to see what they come up with
For deflection it works, but its a grip you move into and then out of and back to a normal grip. Its a temporary move and more like an extra topping on a donut.
@@dudeguy8686 hot take
Exactly as it should be.
I’m really enjoying having Nate on the videos, keep up the good work guys, and thank you for the work you do
Ive always called this Reverse Guard...but I've had to do a lot of self teaching , so even tho I may be familiar with specific things, I may not always know the correct terminology. I've been EXTREMELY passionate about swords and sword fighting since I was a small child. I became a welder/fabricator and learned a little about smithing, and have made a few different style blades of my own. I'm fairly new to this channel, but you guys have NO IDEA how lucky you are to be doing what you do, and have all those beautiful blades at your disposal....I would be in absolute heaven. I'm happy to have found you guys and look forward to seeing all your videos. Stay Frosty!
Welcome to the channel! It's great to hear your passion for swords and sword fighting. What inspired you to start making your own blades?
@@themacso4157 I greatly appreciate the reply. I cant really pinpoint exactly when my love for making blades began. I started trying out making broad swords and claymore style swords in my early 20's in a weld/fab shop I worked at back in the early 90's, but at the time all I had access to was soft mild steel. I was surprised by how well the "look" of those early swords turned out, and Ive continued on from there. Ive learned a lot along the way. within the last couple of years Ive gotten around to trying my hand at katana's, which I didnt think would turn out so well, but what Ive made have turned out pretty good, of course Ive gotten better with each blade,and there are 2 in particular, that I fell in love with and I try to take them EVERYWHERE I go.
I live in rural TN and I hike the woods and mountains often, a sword is a great companion for that. Ive been fascinated with swords since as far back in my childhood as I can remember.
I knew the title had to be clickbait, and you still got me. *slow clap*
Reverse grip is here and there. Mall ninjas, witchers, and the thing that does the thing.
I like sellsword arts.
I was watching Jazza doing Bob Ross stuff.
Same
Sell sword is such an annoying bastard most of the time and it ruins his videos for me
Don’t bring the Witcher into this. IIRC, there is no fighting with reverse grip in the books or games. That’s a Netflix thing.
@@tevildo9383 because witchers don't find mounted up generaly. In both historical and modern military saber use , there were cuts performed in a reverse grip.lt made itself in to XIXth century literatur, then made a jump from mounted to dismounted combat. After they 1940s it was mostly cloak and dagger stuff, with main hand changes , drop grup changes etc.
@@tevildo9383 just another reason to hate the show
I think it’s the type of thing where if you somehow find yourself holding the sword in reverse grip in a fight, it could be nice to know how to hold your own long enough to get the chance to swap back to a conventional grip. Not a situation that’s ever likely to happen, but you never know.
I am 200% certain nobody today will ever find themselves in that situation.
Or perhaps it could be an intentional Self-imposed challenge for sparring, just to show off
in reverse grip' put the thumb under the fingers. you can open the hand and easily switch from off hand reverse to main hand standard
I feel like single handed makes the normal grip have a vastly greater advantage. With two hands something you don't do, and Skallagrim did quite a bit in his video on the topic, is holding the pommel in the offhand palm. That is essentially a reverse grip exclusive technique and it gives you a lot of strength and options. Single handed looks like it basically only works as knife fighting. Maybe it could work for sickles? Not sure
Edit: also consider enclosed spaces
Enclosed spaces is even worse for reverse grip than it is for regular swordfighting, because regular swords can thrust and stab even if they can't swing, while reverse grip NEEDS that wider range of movement that an enclosed space cannot provide.
@@ssjbread2803 The grip I described makes for powerful thrusts from various angles, essentially holding it like a chisel, but greatly reduces reach. Also enclosed spaces aren't just hallways in which you can't swing but you can stab just fine, they might be restrictive in every sense and in general reverse grip reduces the reach of the weapon, which is its greatest disadvantage but could work just fine under such conditions. I don't know, I'm not saying it would work fine, just that it could and I'd like to see that tested.
i guess reverse grip can be fine in some situations for thrust, especially if opponent is downed. Other than that, conventional grip does basically most of the things a reverse grip does and a lot of the times better.
Thanks Shad and crew! Amazing as always. Where do you guys get the swords that you use in videos like this?
See, the thing I'm most interested in now is the design for an 'ideal' reverse grip sword. Something to ATTEMPT to accommodate for its weaknesses.
immediately I want to put a saber guard on it. Maybe a longer handle so a two handed reverse grip could get some form of leverage, and possibly just be used to hold up and guard the head a bit better. Possibly with the smallest hook to catch or strike with.
Not somebody who knows a darn thing about this stuff, but thats just what first came to mind.
I'd say take a look at Tonfa.
@@VestedUTuber i wouldnt rlly consider tonfa to be reverse grip lol
@@aydenmartin5650
I brought tonfa up because the general grip position when using the right angle handle is very similar to reverse-grip relative to the wielder's body, however the right-angle handle allows you to brace the main body of the tonfa against your arm, negating the leverage issues of reverse grip.
@@VestedUTubereven if you'd compensate for the weaknesses of reverse grip by for example giving the user more Hand protection, you should gain nothing by doing so. Even if you had safe hands, reverse grip should be ineffective, because it lessens your reach, worsens your leverage and is overall akward to use. What do you gain from reverse grip, that a normal grip can't offer? I debit get it?
@@lelonmusk4836
The uses for reverse grip are already more or less outlined in the video. If you're asking me for them then you probably didn't even bother to watch it.
But just to give one example, reverse grip gives you a quicker defense to the lower body should someone decide to go for your legs.
Either way, it's not really a grip you want to use constantly, but that doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't use it at all. It's a tool, like any other technique, and refusing to take advantage of a tool when it does become useful simply because it's not good to use it constantly will put you at a disadvantage. You should be changing your grip as needed, not sticking to just one position the whole fight. You wouldn't do the same strike over and over in every situation, would you?
Just a thought on the "Two-handed reverse grip":
When doing that, it almost looks like you're using it like a polearm of some sort. Considering that historically many armies utilized polearm formations (spears, lances, the "square", etc), and often weren't trained in swordplay, what instances we have of "reverse grip" in history might be the result of battlefield scavenging with some minimal "emergency contingency" training.
Yeah, felt like if his handle was a bit longer. Maybe for a War Sword where the sword was resting in a low guard.
I'm only 7 minutes in at the time of writing this, felt absolutely compelled to talk. so yeah. Shad's movement at @4:26 makes me think this is a deception tactic. Because if you were pretending to be injured, or being more noobish looking to an opponent "Oh this will be easy" they think lol. Now keep in mind all I know about swords I learned from Kingdom Come, so go easy on me sword people. I'm here to seek the knowledge ye have.
wish i lived like yall man...
Shad is getting the "wise mentor" look, and it's getting more noticable every time he appears😊
Obi Shad Kenobi.
@@Thor-Orion G'day there!
Shad says don't throw your sword upwards, but he manages to do it and catch the blade. What a legend.
As their little test showed, reverse grip reduces reach and thus mobility.
I feel like Shad is training Tyranth and the boys to take over when he's old.
My take on reverse grip is that the sword has to be especially made in order to be functional. I think the best swords for this type of grip are curved or angled blades where the curve or the angle is pinted at the enemy because then you will be able to strike in very awkward and unorthodox ways.
But even then the same sword, say a cutless , would have the same advantage and a longer range in a traditonal grip
But even with such a sword, you'd still be able to make more effective use of it by just... Holding it properly
Like a katana or somethin yeah and they have been used that way before
In addition I think reverse grip requires it's users to practice with it a lot in order for it to be practical, same with dual welding
@@TechnoMinarchist Yes but you wpuld be able to utilize the trapping aspect far better when you are in reverse grip with angled swords because of the other swords getting trapped in the point of the sword where the angle starts
EDIT:Thereby controlling your opponents sword far better than you would with a regular sword or grip which would then lead you to the surprising cuts that I mentioned before.
Here are some of my notes on reverse grip: First off it's mostly meant for smaller swords and daggers the swords you guys are using I would consider to big for effective use. Second I would consider it best used as a surprise attack in the middle of a flurry of blows where you quickly adjust your hand on the grip and use a horizontal strike before quickly reverting back to a normal grip. I would not consider it a proper technique but more of a trick but it does require skill it also allows you to shorten time between your attacks. That said it's mostly meant as a surprise and a way to keep your enemy guessing but if you dont have the element of surprise it loses a lot of it's value.
Yup, it seems to clunky to use as "regular style" especially if you want to e.g. parry strikes.
@@tubetorpedo To be fair I dont think that reverse grip was anywhere mentioned as a "style" as well but it comes closer to descriptions of ending your oppoent rightiously.
Kinda like Cervantes (soul calibre) like pirate style hmmm????
So I’ve been messing with swords and staffs for fun for a very long time now and I’ve always loved the idea of reverse grip, I’ve found a few things, using a staff it can make your swing FAR more powerful and make for a faster counterattack, using swords it’s more of a one and done hit that only works if used once or twice in a combo and they don’t expect it, it’s a specific move for specific moments in my experience 🤷♂️
@@Yabbadabbadoe Yes but if you use it properly it also can allow you to shorten the time between blows but the downside is that you will need to either lean or step in for the range so keep that in mind. Also if you like feints its a great thing to mindgame your opponent with if they arent used to dealing with feints like that.
I have no idea how I missed this one... I'm now in tears, My whole life has been a lie!
Yeah your definitely right. Anyone who says that probably just doesn't know how to do it or why its helpful to be able to do. It helps to mix things up and make your movements less predictable, and it gives you more ways to attack and defend.
It's good to see Shad is still doing full-length videos. I respect his reasons for appearing on the channel less and I like the style of Nate and Tyronthe (sorry, I don't know how to spell his name) but the last few videos had me worried that Shad would only be appearing for little skits at the beginning or end of videos.
He's doing what he can with his health the way it is. He'll likely bust out his full strength for a video like this from time to time, then have to recover doing the more reserved bits.
@@QuantomX64 I have to say, I really admire the way he's adapted to new limitations and found a way to let the show continue. A lot of people would probably have just given up.
This is the best "reversed sword grip" video ever.... Who needs to debate the issue theoretically when you can just have these two guys go at it to test their theories :D
I think reverse grip is cool because the control and power with larger weapons with the rowing movement and the cqb ability with larger weapons is cool, being able to compactly swing your weapon and thrust like a normal use. The control it gives lets you have stronger block, better attack flow and lets you flow into standard non-reverse grip. (additionally one majior downside of reverse grip, is that you dont have enough room to use a double bladed sword, due to the blade rubbing against your wrist)
Nate is an awesome addition to the crew. I was waiting to see and I think he fits perfectly, especially his matchup with Tyranth. Shad, review A Knight's Tale; there's no reverse grips.
reverse grip is very niche, however I think structure would be stronger if you used your forearms more. What I mean by that is to block with the blade against the forearm. This would mean that you would have to be comfortable moving in and close distance. it would still have all the weaknesses you mentioned here, but might increase the structure and allow for stronger blocks. Being double edged you would need to use the flat mostly, but bracing against your arm would back your block with structure.
From a Filipino Martial Arts perspective: The reverse grip is more of an emergency grip, though we do have some methods utilizing the grip to practice in case of that situation. This method is usually done in conjunction with a dagger on the off hand or the off hand is used as a checking hand. This also means the combatants would be in closer range.
Woah. That’s. Kinda cool lol
finishing off with a slam dunk.
Shad's tech was king 😁
Before even watching the video my instant thought was, "alright Shad, who did you loose a bet with?"
It's been fun seeing you experiment with your giant sword build, and I wonder if you could design a sword to enable reverse grip more effectively. Maybe an angled grip would compensate for the wrist's asymmetric flexibility, and let you have normal range while in a reverse grip.
Actually yes. Then there is also the tonfa
Interesting idea!
I just love how even though they dont recommend reverse grip, they still try their best to find practical uses for it
"Wrist strenght that I purposely trained a lot" I love Tyrant subtle jokes😂